Lee Smith and Harold Baines elected to the Baseball HOF

[Todd4State]

The bad news is Will Clark didn't get in.

I think Lee Smith and Baines are deserving though.

[Irondawg]

I don’t know. Baines was a very good player but I never considered him among the greats from his era.

[Todd4State]

He was one of the best DH's of all time. I think if you are legitimately the best at whatever position you play it's fine if you are in the HOF. Could say the same about Lee Smith at the closer position as well.

[Dawg61]

Harold Baines is in the HOF and Barry Bonds isn't. What a 17ing joke.

[Quaoarsking]

Those are ... curious choices

Baines is only even close to HOF quality in 1 of the 4 measures on BR.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/baineha01.shtml

Smith meets 1 of the 4 measures, but isn't really close on the other 3. He was the all-time leader in saves for a while though, so that's at least something.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithle02.shtml

If you go by the 4 BR measures, Will Clark is as deserving as either of these.

[Todd4State]

Those are ... curious choices

Baines is only even close to HOF quality in 1 of the 4 measures on BR.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/baineha01.shtml

Smith meets 1 of the 4 measures, but isn't really close on the other 3. He was the all-time leader in saves for a while though, so that's at least something.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithle02.shtml

If you go by the 4 BR measures, Will Clark is as deserving as either of these.

I know this will sound crazy to a lot of people- but the HOF should be more than just about numbers. I'd much rather the HOF be oversaturated than undersaturated like it is now. And I think it should be about what you did as a baseball player- not what you did off the field. So yes, Barry Bonds should be in.

And I agree that Will Clark should be in as well.

[shoeless joe]

Fred McGriff is the guy that should see this and know that he will get in at some point. Not saying he should definitely be in already but his vote totals should have been much higher.

[Irondawg]

I’m the other way and don’t want it to be over saturated

[BrunswickDawg]

I know this will sound crazy to a lot of people- but the HOF should be more than just about numbers. I'd much rather the HOF be oversaturated than undersaturated like it is now. And I think it should be about what you did as a baseball player- not what you did off the field. So yes, Barry Bonds should be in.

And I agree that Will Clark should be in as well.

This true - It where the Pro football HOF gets things right. But, if you are looking beyond the numbers you keep Bonds and his swole steroid head out. It's one thing to have taken them, it's another one to have flaunted it.

[Dawg61]

This true - It where the Pro football HOF gets things right. But, if you are looking beyond the numbers you keep Bonds and his swole steroid head out. It's one thing to have taken them, it's another one to have flaunted it.

Yea by passing over a thousand piss tests.

[BrunswickDawg]

Yea by passing over a thousand piss tests.

You sure about that?

http://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112982

http://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3881897

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/sports/baseball/05bonds.html

[Dawg61]

What's that have to do with him passing a thousand piss tests? If I give you a thousand and one drug tests and you pass a thousand of them the one you failed doesn't suddenly make the thousand you passed become fails.

[BrunswickDawg]

What's that have to do with him passing a thousand piss tests? If I give you a thousand and one drug tests and you pass a thousand of them the one you failed doesn't suddenly make the thousand you passed become fails.

Where did he pass 1,000 piss tests though? MLB didn't start testing for steroids until 2003. And he he failed it (even though it was non-enforceable test).
Mandatory testing begins in 2004 - so he passed 1000 piss tests between 2004 and 2007? They tested at the beginning of Spring Training and had 1 random test in season. By my math (and I was a history major so I could be wrong) that would be 8 tests. So if we have in documents that he passed 8 and failed 4 - he failed 33% of the tests we know about.

Now, if BALCO documented that he passed 1000 tests, it was only because they were testing their products that were designed to beat piss tests - which I am pretty sure is what brought BALCO down.

[Dawg61]

Just basing that off of something Bonds said himself a long time ago that he'd been tested hundreds of times in one year alone and passed every one of them. It doesn't matter to me if he was on steroids or not. He's clearly a HOF baseball talent. Put them all in and make note it was during the steroid era. Having Harold Baines in the HOF and not Barry Bonds is an absurdity. 100% guarantee you there are players in the HOF that took steroids right now. Nobody ever questions Frank Thomas? Why not? He's ****ing HUGE. Nobody questions Ken Griffey Jr. Why not? Nobody questions Rickey Henderson. Why not? Why does everyone just assume Bonds took steroids yet not one single person assumes Frank Thomas did. The baseball HOF is a 17ing joke.

[Tbonewannabe]

Just basing that off of something Bonds said himself a long time ago that he'd been tested hundreds of times in one year alone and passed every one of them. It doesn't matter to me if he was on steroids or not. He's clearly a HOF baseball talent. Put them all in and make note it was during the steroid era. Having Harold Baines in the HOF and not Barry Bonds is an absurdity. 100% guarantee you there are players in the HOF that took steroids right now. Nobody ever questions Frank Thomas? Why not? He's ****ing HUGE. Nobody questions Ken Griffey Jr. Why not? Nobody questions Rickey Henderson. Why not? Why does everyone just assume Bonds took steroids yet not one single person assumes Frank Thomas did. The baseball HOF is a 17ing joke.

I agree with this, Jeff Bagwell is in and he pretty much has almost all the symptoms that Bonds had. Bagwell was like a midget McGwire clone.

[BrunswickDawg]

Just basing that off of something Bonds said himself a long time ago that he'd been tested hundreds of times in one year alone and passed every one of them. It doesn't matter to me if he was on steroids or not. He's clearly a HOF baseball talent. Put them all in and make note it was during the steroid era. Having Harold Baines in the HOF and not Barry Bonds is an absurdity. 100% guarantee you there are players in the HOF that took steroids right now. Nobody ever questions Frank Thomas? Why not? He's ****ing HUGE. Nobody questions Ken Griffey Jr. Why not? Nobody questions Rickey Henderson. Why not? Why does everyone just assume Bonds took steroids yet not one single person assumes Frank Thomas did. The baseball HOF is a 17ing joke.

Bonds was a HOF talent. The difference to me between he and most of the other steroid era players is that he systematically worked to develop ways to defraud the system. Reading thru all of the BALCO stuff over the years, all of the athletes involved with them knew exactly what they were doing and why they were doing it. The reason he passed 1000s of tests was to help BALCO develop products that could pass tests and develop their dosing regimes. That's next level to me.

Now, the flip side of that is that baseball - and the HOF - is full of guys who cheated one way or the other. MLB also was at worst complicit in the charade of what the late 1990s was in baseball. But, the HOF is still holding a grudge against Joe Jackson 100 years later so at least they are consistent.

I actually think baseball and football would be far better off allowing managed steroid use for injury recover/rehab. It's a legitimate medical treatment and should be allowed and monitored by the leagues.