Wes Johnson New Minnesota Twins Pitching Coach

[ShotgunDawg]

For all of you that said he sucked: Wes gives you the middle finger. Best pitching coach in the country

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1063143917049106432

[msstate7]

No one said he sucked. We said he was reckless with kids' arms

[ShotgunDawg]

No one said he sucked. We said he was reckless with kids' arms

Sure buddy.

[msstate7]

Sure buddy.

Well he left our staff in shambles. You can suck him off all you want

[ShotgunDawg]

Well he left our staff in shambles. You can suck him off all you want

Complete ignorance

[msstate7]

Complete ignorance

Maybe my hate is blinding me. Maybe your love for him is blinding you. I think he saw a team that was capable of winning big and pushed guys too fast to try and advance his career. He realized he fricked up and backed off to normal at ark

[Tbonewannabe]

I think most people thought he rushed his "process" because he came in late and it caused injuries. The pitchers that didn't blow out their elbows greatly improved. He is a great coach and I am glad Arkansas doesn't have him now.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think most people thought he rushed his "process" because he came in late and it caused injuries. The pitchers that didn't blow out their elbows greatly improved. He is a great coach and I am glad Arkansas doesn't have him now.

3 different pitching coaches in 1 year, with all different throwing programs, will tend to do that.

Kind of like people expecting Moorhead to know Mullen's offense. How is Wes supposed to know Butch Thompson's throwing program?

[CoachT14]

It wasn't his "process" that caused the injuries, it was us changing from his "process" to what Gary Henderson's "process" was. I'm not blaming anybody in that statement. It was the factors of two different philosophies changing way too fast. When your arm goes from high volume work with plyocare/weighted balls to simply long-tossing and no other arm exercise besides lifting weights, the arm can begin to have issues when high velocity throwing is now done. You train your arm for high volume work and immediately flip-flop it's going to cause injuries. No where else has Wes Johnson had these issues, but yet our fans in ignorance lay all of the blame at his feet. Mostly because they are mad that he left us, not even what happened. It was a confluence of related and unrelated events that lead to us having a huge rash of arm injuries.

[ShotgunDawg]

Maybe my hate is blinding me. Maybe your love for him is blinding you. I think he saw a team that was capable of winning big and pushed guys too fast to try and advance his career. He realized he fricked up and backed off to normal at ark

Nah, I just don't think you know what you're talking about.

He did the same stuff at Arkansas that he did at MSU. Absolutely no difference

[ShotgunDawg]

It wasn't his "process" that caused the injuries, it was us changing from his "process" to what Gary Henderson's "process" was. I'm not blaming anybody in that statement. It was the factors of two different philosophies changing way too fast. When your arm goes from high volume work with plyocare/weighted balls to simply long-tossing and no other arm exercise besides lifting weights, the arm can begin to have issues when high velocity throwing is now done. You train your arm for high volume work and immediately flip-flop it's going to cause injuries. No where else has Wes Johnson had these issues, but yet our fans in ignorance lay all of the blame at his feet. Mostly because they are mad that he left us, not even what happened. It was a confluence of related and unrelated events that lead to us having a huge rash of arm injuries.

Post more. This guy get's it

[Dawg61]

Maybe the Twins will keep his name off our board now.

[WSOPdawg]

I'm just glad he's now out of the SEC.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

.....You can suck him off all you want

....now this is funny. I laughed out loud

[Political Hack]

Throwing a 5.25 ounce ball too much too hard can cause Tommy John. I've got an idea, let's make it heavier and throw the hell out of it.

[WPS]

Gary Henderson has been tossed around as a potential name to replace him haha.

Timing of it kinda sucks.

[msstate7]

Gary Henderson has been tossed around as a potential name to replace him haha.

Timing of it kinda sucks.
Please do. We can then see if the theory above is correct

[MetEdDawg]

Throwing a 5.25 ounce ball too much too hard can cause Tommy John. I've got an idea, let's make it heavier and throw the hell out of it.

If that didn't work do you think an MLB team would be hiring him as the pitching coach for their major league club? I don't think so.

[msstate7]

If that didn't work do you think an MLB team would be hiring him as the pitching coach for their major league club? I don't think so.

There's no doubt it works. Common sense tells you that if you practice throwing something heavier then you'll throw the lighter object harder. The question is is there any long term effects. I for one am glad Wes won't put his stubby little arms on soroka, gohara, Anderson, wentz, Wright, etc. I realize I'm not unbiased in my opinion of Wes haha

ETA... I actually think his strategy is better on mlb guys though. I think once a player is fully developed it may be safer. I don't like it for young pitchers. I also hate year round ball for pitchers

[Really Clark?]

If that didn't work do you think an MLB team would be hiring him as the pitching coach for their major league club? I don't think so.

Seriously doubt he will use the same throwing program with weighted balls with major league pitchers as he does with developing young pitchers. Arm fatigue increases with weighted ball training. But that’s not all he is about. Advanced analytics, Trackman technology, etc. is more of what they are hiring. Might be a good fit with the young staff

[Todd4State]

Seriously doubt he will use the same throwing program with weighted balls with major league pitchers as he does with developing young pitchers. Arm fatigue increases with weighted ball training. But that’s not all he is about. Advanced analytics, Trackman technology, etc. is more of what they are hiring. Might be a good fit with the young staff

Why would he stop? If anything MLB pitchers are better geared to take that kind of work out because they are mature professional athletes who have been working out for awhile.

[Todd4State]

If that didn't work do you think an MLB team would be hiring him as the pitching coach for their major league club? I don't think so.

This is really hard to argue with.

I have heard rumors that our last training staff was unfamiliar with Johnson's approach and that may have caused some overloading with our younger pitchers.

[MetEdDawg]

This is really hard to argue with.

I have heard rumors that our last training staff was unfamiliar with Johnson's approach and that may have caused some overloading with our younger pitchers.

This makes perfect sense. There are a ton of difficulties with hiring correct personnel these days because there are so many ways to approach things like training. There isn't one hard and fast way to do everything and that's hard for people outside of coaching to understand. You can find success a bunch of different ways but it's tough when people on your staff don't know the ins and outs of everyone's daily routine or training program. Or when someone is used to doing something for years and suddenly has to change. People care about name rather than fit and don't realize fit and style play a massive part in success.

It's why college sports see so much fluctuations. So many moving parts in coaching and philosophy based on personnel. Not so much in the pros. They have significantly more control over style and players. Usually not about fit but about talent. In college it's so much more about fit and style which is why you can see drastic fluctuations in teams, even when you just change the pitching coach.

[Really Clark?]

Why would he stop? If anything MLB pitchers are better geared to take that kind of work out because they are mature professional athletes who have been working out for awhile.

First I didn?t say he would stop but he would not use the same program. While they are mature, they also throw so many pitches during the season, that arm fatigue is a real concern. Weighted ball programs show that they can cause mid season arm problems and fatigue even weeks after finishing a program. I?m a proponent of these type of programs, if individualized. But I would be shocked and concerned if he maintained the same program as he used in college.

The other and bigger issue, is what is occurring in the arm to increase that velocity. Weight ball training doesn?t develop muscle strength and stretching and bone adapting as much as it?s the stabilizers being damaged. Now you add this to men who have long term use already (or overuse in a lot of cases) injury and fatigue increases. I think one study with Dr Andrews had a possible 24% increase.

Again, weighted ball is a tool and it definitely increases velocity. I believe in it but in a smaller scale. And with adult players with a lot of use and damage already in their arm, it shouldn?t be close to the same program as with youth, young adults.

[ShotgunDawg]

If that didn't work do you think an MLB team would be hiring him as the pitching coach for their major league club? I don't think so.

Agree but Wes is so much more than this. The Twins did not hire him for his weighted ball expertise. They hired him because he maybe the best pitching coach in the world at using technology (trackman, Rapsoto, biomechanics, etc) at developing pitchers and maximizing their arsenal.

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

For all of you that said he sucked: Wes gives you the middle finger. Best pitching coach in the country

https://twitter.com/AaronGleeman/status/1063143917049106432


Terrible post.

[Homedawg]

I think most people thought he rushed his "process" because he came in late and it caused injuries. The pitchers that didn't blow out their elbows greatly improved. He is a great coach and I am glad Arkansas doesn't have him now.

See the problem is there is no way of determine if he caused the injuries or not. He didn't have a track record of them and didn't after. Just blind bad luck and a rush to judgment by most

[msstate7]

Agree but Wes is so much more than this. The Twins did not hire him for his weighted ball expertise. They hired him because he maybe the best pitching coach in the world at using technology (trackman, Rapsoto, biomechanics, etc) at developing pitchers and maximizing their arsenal.
Brent storm and/or the Astros analytics dept is the best pitching coach/organization/whatever is the best. What they did with Charlie Morton is amazing. Bringing in verlander and Cole, and immediately increasing their spin rate. The Astros are the best in the business with pitchers

[Todd4State]

First I didn?t say he would stop but he would not use the same program. While they are mature, they also throw so many pitches during the season, that arm fatigue is a real concern. Weighted ball programs show that they can cause mid season arm problems and fatigue even weeks after finishing a program. I?m a proponent of these type of programs, if individualized. But I would be shocked and concerned if he maintained the same program as he used in college.

The other and bigger issue, is what is occurring in the arm to increase that velocity. Weight ball training doesn?t develop muscle strength and stretching and bone adapting as much as it?s the stabilizers being damaged. Now you add this to men who have long term use already (or overuse in a lot of cases) injury and fatigue increases. I think one study with Dr Andrews had a possible 24% increase.

Again, weighted ball is a tool and it definitely increases velocity. I believe in it but in a smaller scale. And with adult players with a lot of use and damage already in their arm, it shouldn?t be close to the same program as with youth, young adults.

How do you know he wasn't individualizing the programs with our pitchers?


Brent storm and/or the Astros analytics dept is the best pitching coach/organization/whatever is the best. What they did with Charlie Morton is amazing. Bringing in verlander and Cole, and immediately increasing their spin rate. The Astros are the best in the business with pitchers


Wes Johnson is from the Brent Strom school of thought.

[Really Clark?]

How do you know he wasn't individualizing the programs with our pitchers?




Wes Johnson is from the Brent Strom school of thought.

Didn’t say he did or didn’t individualize our guys. Never said a word about what he did here. I said I am a proponent of weight training, if individualized. A lot of coaches and trainers do not believe in a one size fits all weighted ball program. But he is not going to use his college program in the pros or I will be shocked if he does and it will be concerning.

[Todd4State]

Didn’t say he did or didn’t individualize our guys. Never said a word about what he did here. I said I am a proponent of weight training, if individualized. A lot of coaches and trainers do not believe in a one size fits all weighted ball program. But he is not going to use his college program in the pros or I will be shocked if he does and it will be concerning.

My point is it makes zero sense for MLB to hire someone that doesn't run a weighted ball program properly. Brent Strom has been using his program in MLB for years.

[Really Clark?]

My point is it makes zero sense for MLB to hire someone that doesn't run a weighted ball program properly. Brent Strom has been using his program in MLB for years.

....Never, in either post, did I say he won’t run a weighted ball program. I have said the program will not be the same as what he has done with young college players. While the MLB pitchers are older, they also have a lot more mileage and have to prepare for a much longer season. With understood damage already in their arm. You cannot use the same program and not every MLB pitcher are at a point in their career that it is safe to attempt an intense velocity add program.

[ShotgunDawg]

Brent storm and/or the Astros analytics dept is the best pitching coach/organization/whatever is the best. What they did with Charlie Morton is amazing. Bringing in verlander and Cole, and immediately increasing their spin rate. The Astros are the best in the business with pitchers

Do you know who Brent Strom's best friend is? Ding ding

[msstate7]

Do you know who Brent Strom's best friend is? Ding ding

I have no doubt Storm is really good or the Astros wouldn't keep him. It's well documented though that the analytics dept of the Astros is the real brains of the operation. They figured out to fix Morton before they even acquired him. So while storm is good, the Astros would keep on rolling without him as long as they keep the brains of the operation together

[msstate7]

Delete

[Dawg61]

Wes had about eight MSU pitchers go down with season ending injuries. He might be HOF great before and after his time at MSU but for one year he was a serial arm killer while here and he'll forever be a piece of shit in my book. Blow him elsewhere ShotgunDawg your fellatio won't find any cucks here.

[CoachT14]

Agree but Wes is so much more than this. The Twins did not hire him for his weighted ball expertise. They hired him because he maybe the best pitching coach in the world at using technology (trackman, Rapsoto, biomechanics, etc) at developing pitchers and maximizing their arsenal.


This. Literally everyone, but a large subsection of our fans agrees that this guy is legit and one of the best in the business. Still we have these folks run around screaming f-the guy. Those same guys then turn around and complain about us not being able to develop velocity with our pitchers. Some players have natural velo, others don't. For the ones that don't, they have to find different ways to train their arm for maximum potential. Trevor Bauer, one of the best pitchers in the majors last year, has readily admitted that he wouldn't be close to the pitcher he is without the weighted ball training and all the analytics that the Indians allow him to do and do with him. I'll say again look who was in the Championship game last year, two schools that used a weighted ball program. And guess what those guys were doing that program pre-bullpen. Or lets look at the list of National Champions that have used it the last few years. Vanderbilt, Coastal Carolina, LSU. Wanna know who else does.... Washington, Clemson, NC State, Duke, Louisiana Tech, Division 2 National Champ - Augustana (SD). It's a laundry list of successful programs that use some form of weighted ball training for pitchers.


Oh and I imagine since we got our new pitching coach from NC State, that awful weighted ball training might be coming back. Look out for the rash of arm injuries fellas.

[Political Hack]

I'm more focused on young kids still developing and the thing that tells me to "stay the hell away" from weighted balls is that kids shouldn't be lifting heavy weights when they're going through growth spurts. Young college players are still filling out and having them develop arm strength with weighted balls as their tendons and ligaments are being stretched to their final adult size just seems like a bad idea to me. Not to mention the potential to hurt someone's mechanics, force them to drop their shoulder and elbow slot, and the added pressure on three major arm joints from throwing heavy weights as hard as you can. It's like maxing out every day in the gym and saying it's ok. It's not. That said, I have no clue how often they used them and it could have been something completely different than the weighted balls that caused his bullpen to become an infirmary.

I have no doubt Wes Johnson is a phenomenal pitching coach. He wouldn't be where he is otherwise. But he absolutely destroyed our bullpen's arms. Whether it was a combo, a rash of crazy freak accidents, changed to the throwing program, over use at an early age, etc... doesn't really matter to me. It happened when he was in charge.