Our program has come a long ways when our fans are up set with a 8-4 season.

[Jack Lambert]

Just Saying.

[Coursesuper]

Just Saying.

We aren't 8-4 yet.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think people just fear that we are about to take a big step back & this year was our chance.

If you want to get excited, here is somethings to get excited about:

1. We lose talent on defense, but we are damn near replacing it with this recruiting class. With Hall being rumored as possibly committing soon, you are replacing the outgoing players with Sweat/Russel & Ani, Simmons/Pickering & Moore, Thomas/Pickering & Moore, Gerri Green/possibly Hall, Abram/J Jones, Peters/Emerson & Brooks, McLaurin/Fred Peters. We have never, ever had this much outgoing talent but, on paper, we are replacing about as well as you could ever hope for. We already have some nice pieces for 2019, but Shoop has players to work with going forward to continue to produce a top 25 defense.

2. The offense this year has some nice pieces, but overall is a square peg in a round hole. With Shrader being Joe's guy & Cunningham, Washington, Sharp, & potentially Cross & Pendley making up the best OL class in a decade & the two 4 star 2020 WRs along with Heath committing soon. The offense appears to be headed in the right direction talent wise. Still gotta find an elite RB.

3. We have a top shelf DC & that side of the ball should be fine. Gotta keep him & he should want to stay with the talent we are bringing in.

I say all this to make the point that, I understand why people are fearful that we have this amazing roster that we'll never see again in our lifetimes, but I beg the differ. I think the roster we'll field in 2/3 years will be more well rounded on both sides of the ball than this one.

[Matty Dispatch]

Yeah and there's a lot of people investing a lot more of their time and money into MSU football than there used to be as well. But if we do indeed go 8-4, it means we have the Golden Egg - and there won't be many people upset anymore.

[Jack Lambert]

We aren't 8-4 yet.

Yeah I know but people are saying they will be disappointed with 8-4. That is all.

[basedog]

Joe will be back, to early to tell what his future will be at Msu. I see a struggling offense and we shall see how another year under his belt will produce.


I ain't mad, going to bowls getting extra practice is a big boost. Plus don't think players and recruits don't like getting nice gifts from the bowls.


We've come a long ways from our past.

[Liverpooldawg]

I said somewhere between 7-5 and 9-3. Obviously 8-4 is the middle. I had the three non-KSU OOCs and Arkansas as sure wins. I thought Bama and Auburn were sure losses. I had Kentucky and KSU as probabaly wins. I thought LSU was a probable loss. To me A&M, Florida, and Ole Miss were the toss ups. I missed bad with Auburn and Kentucky. We have split the toss ups so far. I for sure would have liked to have seen better but if we win these next two I can't say I'm disappointed. I just did not see this season as a sure thing like most here did. I wouldn't have with Mullen either. When you threw in a new offensive system that it was questionable that we had the personnel to run effectively, I just couldn't get as excited as some of y'all.

[BhamDawg205]

Just Saying.

Well I think it's not about possible 8-4... It's how we get to 8-4. Meaning most winning teams have an identity, what's our? Bama of ole was run, run , play action. MSU under Muffin was heavy run option.....

[BrunswickDawg]

I think people just fear that we are about to take a big step back & this year was our chance.

If you want to get excited, here is somethings to get excited about:

1. We lose talent on defense, but we are damn near replacing it with this recruiting class. With Hall being rumored as possibly committing soon, you are replacing the outgoing players with Sweat/Russel & Ani, Simmons/Pickering & Moore, Thomas/Pickering & Moore, Gerri Green/possibly Hall, Abram/J Jones, Peters/Emerson & Brooks, McLaurin/Fred Peters. We have never, ever had this much outgoing talent but, on paper, we are replacing about as well as you could ever hope for. We already have some nice pieces for 2019, but Shoop has players to work with going forward to continue to produce a top 25 defense.

2. The offense this year has some nice pieces, but overall is a square peg in a round hole. With Shrader being Joe's guy & Cunningham, Washington, Sharp, & potentially Cross & Pendley making up the best OL class in a decade & the two 4 star 2020 WRs along with Heath committing soon. The offense appears to be headed in the right direction talent wise. Still gotta find an elite RB.

3. We have a top shelf DC & that side of the ball should be fine. Gotta keep him & he should want to stay with the talent we are bringing in.

I say all this to make the point that, I understand why people are fearful that we have this amazing roster that we'll never see again in our lifetimes, but I beg the differ. I think the roster we'll field in 2/3 years will be more well rounded on both sides of the ball than this one.

I think another thing to add is that we lose very little on offense from this year. We lose a QB who half the world thinks we should have benched this season, Aeris, 2 OL, a TE and a WR.
Who out of Fitz, Aeris, Jenkins, Calhoun, Jesse Jackson, and Justin Johnson is irreplaceable? You can't bash Fitz all season and call for KT and think he isn't replaceable. With Kylin and Gibson is there much of a drop without Aeris?

Story probably slides into Jenkins spot. If Dolla Bill Johnson is ready, then Eiland can slide back inside and fill for Calhoun. Farrod Green and Cumbest have Johnson covered. Jackson is pretty buried on the stat chart right now by 5-6 other WR - and that's with Whop hardly playing.

That doesn't mean we don't have questions marks. It does mean that we have a lot of continuity within the system and the opportunity for growth that we missed transitioning from Dan to Joe. It's why I'm not ready to declare this a bust. Yet...

[ShotgunDawg]

I think another thing to add is that we lose very little on offense from this year. We lose a QB who half the world thinks we should have benched this season, Aeris, 2 OL, a TE and a WR.
Who out of Fitz, Aeris, Jenkins, Calhoun, Jesse Jackson, and Justin Johnson is irreplaceable? You can't bash Fitz all season and call for KT and think he isn't replaceable. With Kylin and Gibson is there much of a drop without Aeris?

Story probably slides into Jenkins spot. If Dolla Bill Johnson is ready, then Eiland can slide back inside and fill for Calhoun. Farrod Green and Cumbest have Johnson covered. Jackson is pretty buried on the stat chart right now by 5-6 other WR - and that's with Whop hardly playing.

That doesn't mean we don't have questions marks. It does mean that we have a lot of continuity within the system and the opportunity for growth that we missed transitioning from Dan to Joe. It's why I'm not ready to declare this a bust. Yet...

Jenkins will be the tough one to replace.

[BrunswickDawg]

Jenkins will be the tough one to replace.

I agree with that. But, we didn't think Jenkins could replace Jammal Clayborn, or that Clayborn could replace Dillon Day.

[basedog]

Always next man up.

[cheewgumm]

People will come to realize that this year was our chance. We will get some players and hopefully he?ll be able to recruit well but we built for a long time to get to this point now.

I?ve been a state fan for roughly 45 years and this is our most talented team. Thinking that we will simply recruit players and be as good and talented as we are now is wishful thinking. Jeffrey Simmons and Montes sweat are once in a long time type players.

When you coach at Mississippi State, you strike when the iron is hot. The iron was hot this year and our coach missed it.

My frustration is that he missed it willingly.

[BrunswickDawg]

Jenkins will be the tough one to replace.

Also to add -

While losing Sweat and Simmons will mean a step back - we have some real impressive guys in the front 7 rotation coming back.
Rivers, Spencer, Adams, Autry, Kobe Jones, Leo, Errol, Willie, and Washington - and that's before we see what any of this year's Freshman and the 2019 recruiting class can do.
We won't be Top 10 - but we will be possibly Top 30 on defense next year if not better. I think people will be surprised.

[Covercorner2]

People will come to realize that this year was our chance. We will get some players and hopefully he?ll be able to recruit well but we built for a long time to get to this point now.

I?ve been a state fan for roughly 45 years and this is our most talented team. Thinking that we will simply recruit players and be as good and talented as we are now is wishful thinking. Jeffrey Simmons and Montes sweat are once in a long time type players.

When you coach at Mississippi State, you strike when the iron is hot. The iron was hot this year and our coach missed it.

My frustration is that he missed it willingly.

While that is possible, you also have to realize that this year's team is comprised of recruiting classes that averaged 27th in the country:

- 2014- 36th
- 2015- 18th
- 2016- 28th
- 2017- 24th
- 2018- 27th

We have a very good chance this year's (2019) class is better than any of those 5 classes. We also now have a different coach. So there are lots of variables at play, the recruiting one of which seems to be trending in our favor.

One more thing- we will probably finish 8-4 with a bad offense and good defense. We should still be very good on defense next year. We also have an easier schedule. So unless our offense is much worse, we should be about the same next year in a "rebuilding year."

[HoopsDawg]

Yeah I know but people are saying they will be disappointed with 8-4. That is all.

Just this season. Next year I will be thrilled with 8-4.

[TrapGame]

One more thing- we will probably finish 8-4 with a bad offense and good defense. We should still be very good on defense next year. We also have an easier schedule. So unless our offense is much worse, we should be about the same next year in a "rebuilding year."

I'm sure that's why we are hearing the transfer QB buzz. Joe needs an experienced QB that gets his offense in a reasonable amount of time. With the right QB we can be 8-4 again next year.

[MagicDawg]

I'll be even more upset with 7-5. And I don't feel great about the trip to oxford.

[BrunswickDawg]

Also to add -

While losing Sweat and Simmons will mean a step back - we have some real impressive guys in the front 7 rotation coming back.
Rivers, Spencer, Adams, Autry, Kobe Jones, Leo, Errol, Willie, and Washington - and that's before we see what any of this year's Freshman and the 2019 recruiting class can do.
We won't be Top 10 - but we will be possibly Top 30 on defense next year if not better. I think people will be surprised.

It is arguably the most talented team on Defense, but there is no way it is the most talented team on offense. 2014 is hands down, the most talented collection on offense we have had. To be the 2014 offense, we would have had to increase our total offense by 95 yards a game, and our scoring by 5 pts. a game versus last season - while facing 7 teams so far in Top 50 in total defense and scoring defense.

Last season was as good of an offensive performance as we could get out of these players - and it was middle of the pack SEC and less than our offensive output in 2016. What miracle of coaching was going to increase that? If we had been able to replicate that same offensive output this year - 15 more pts a game in conference play - we still lose Kentucky (28-22ish) , Bama (24-14ish), possibly LSU (19-18ish) and squeak by UF (21-13). Would that really make anyone feel better?

The book on our offense would still be the same regardless of us running the Moorhead offense or the Mullen offense with the talent we have - sell out on the run and force MSU into passing situations and you can beat them. It's the same book it has been every year for the past 10. Kentucky forced us into passing situations all night - with help from our OL and the refs. Would you rather we run it on 1st and 20 or 3rd and 15 (Dan did a lot and we creamed him for it); LSU stuffed us in short yardage all night (something we all bitched at Dan about too) and forced us into 3rd and long and passing downs and rattled our QB - similar to what they then did to UGA a week later; and Bama was a war with the Refs and the #1 scoring defense in the nation.

[msstate7]

It is arguably the most talented team on Defense, but there is no way it is the most talented team on offense. 2014 is hands down, the most talented collection on offense we have had. To be the 2014 offense, we would have had to increase our total offense by 95 yards a game, and our scoring by 5 pts. a game versus last season - while facing 7 teams so far in Top 50 in total defense and scoring defense.

Last season was as good of an offensive performance as we could get out of these players - and it was middle of the pack SEC and less than our offensive output in 2016. What miracle of coaching was going to increase that? If we had been able to replicate that same offensive output this year - 15 more pts a game in conference play - we still lose Kentucky (28-22ish) , Bama (24-14ish), possibly LSU (19-18ish) and squeak by UF (21-13). Would that really make anyone feel better?

The book on our offense would still be the same regardless of us running the Moorhead offense or the Mullen offense with the talent we have - sell out on the run and force MSU into passing situations and you can beat them. It's the same book it has been every year for the past 10. Kentucky forced us into passing situations all night - with help from our OL and the refs. Would you rather we run it on 1st and 20 or 3rd and 15 (Dan did a lot and we creamed him for it); LSU stuffed us in short yardage all night (something we all bitched at Dan about too) and forced us into 3rd and long and passing downs and rattled our QB - similar to what they then did to UGA a week later; and Bama was a war with the Refs and the #1 scoring defense in the nation.

Wow. If our offense were on the field sustaining drives this season, do you actually think our defense still gives up 28 to Kentucky? There's no chance in hell we'd lose to Kentucky and Florida with a competent offense.

[dawgday166]

It is arguably the most talented team on Defense, but there is no way it is the most talented team on offense. 2014 is hands down, the most talented collection on offense we have had. To be the 2014 offense, we would have had to increase our total offense by 95 yards a game, and our scoring by 5 pts. a game versus last season - while facing 7 teams so far in Top 50 in total defense and scoring defense.

Last season was as good of an offensive performance as we could get out of these players - and it was middle of the pack SEC and less than our offensive output in 2016. What miracle of coaching was going to increase that? If we had been able to replicate that same offensive output this year - 15 more pts a game in conference play - we still lose Kentucky (28-22ish) , Bama (24-14ish), possibly LSU (19-18ish) and squeak by UF (21-13). Would that really make anyone feel better?

The book on our offense would still be the same regardless of us running the Moorhead offense or the Mullen offense with the talent we have - sell out on the run and force MSU into passing situations and you can beat them. It's the same book it has been every year for the past 10. Kentucky forced us into passing situations all night - with help from our OL and the refs. Would you rather we run it on 1st and 20 or 3rd and 15 (Dan did a lot and we creamed him for it); LSU stuffed us in short yardage all night (something we all bitched at Dan about too) and forced us into 3rd and long and passing downs and rattled our QB - similar to what they then did to UGA a week later; and Bama was a war with the Refs and the #1 scoring defense in the nation.

Bama wins cause of the refs. The others we win cause when our O is not on field that much, the other team has more chances. KY doesn't score 28, LSU doesn't score 19.

[msstate7]

Bama wins cause of the refs. The others we win cause when our O is not on field that much, the other team has more chances. KY doesn't score 28, LSU doesn't score 19.

You've got to realize Brunswick has gone all-in to defend Moorhead. Brunswick was fitz's #1 fan, and now he's totally flipped on his boy to defend the indefensible performance of Moorhead

[dawgday166]

You've got to realize Brunswick has gone all-in to defend Moorhead. Brunswick was fitz's #1 fan, and now he's totally flipped on his boy to defend the indefensible performance of Moorhead

I have noticed that somewhat. There are some encouraging things about Moorhead. One is he and the staff don't seem to give up in recruiting. We'll see how that turns out. I'll hang with Joe for a while and see how it goes, but his stubbornness cost us this season. Mullen had to learn some things too.

[99jc]

Just Saying.

8-4 in some years would great but we're talking about this 17 ing year don't try to confuse the issue here. Fatass Moorhead 17'd up this season. You can deodorize it cover it up with leaves but this season still smells like shit! You know it, I know it and the intelligent fan base knows it. Please don't insult us!

[Jack Lambert]

Jenkins will be the tough one to replace.

I agree Jenkins is good and will be on a NFL roster but he has made a lot of mistakes snapping in road games, we are talking what the hell was he thinking snaps and Fitz got hit twice because he missed his block completely this past Saturday. Now maybe he was suppose to block someone else but that guy ran by him twice and got to Fitz. He so close he would not have had to reach very far to grab his nuts.

[Dawgfan77]

I'll be even more upset with 7-5. And I don't feel great about the trip to oxford.

I agree. We are 6-4 And not 8-4. Our road scores his year are 31,7,3, and donut. Nothing has shown me we can score on the road

[Coldsleeve Jr.]

Most ppl felt the floor was 8-4 with this roster. Not too many get excited for reaching the lowest level of success when the ceiling was much higher.

If the floor had been 5-7, fans would be ecstatic. But this roster is so much better than 8-4 it hurts.

[dawgday166]

Most ppl felt the floor was 8-4 with this roster. Not too many get excited for reaching the lowest level of success when the ceiling was much higher.

If the floor had been 5-7, fans would be ecstatic. But this roster is so much better than 8-4 it hurts.

Especially this year when the entire college landscape is ... meh. No elite teams this year.

[BrunswickDawg]

You've got to realize Brunswick has gone all-in to defend Moorhead. Brunswick was fitz's #1 fan, and now he's totally flipped on his boy to defend the indefensible performance of Moorhead


I have noticed that somewhat. There are some encouraging things about Moorhead. One is he and the staff don't seem to give up in recruiting. We'll see how that turns out. I'll hang with Joe for a while and see how it goes, but his stubbornness cost us this season. Mullen had to learn some things too.

No - I'm realistic. Fitz is my guy. But, I also recognize that he is what he has shown us - the best Running QB to have played in the SEC, and a guy who is limited in his passing game. I thought he could advance into a better passer, but he couldn't. I can admit I was wrong and not hold a grudge against the guy like some seem to do. Doesn't mean that I don't support him any less or I'm going to spend my time bashing him because he couldn't meet my arbitrary expectation of what he should be able to do - you do enough of that for all of us 7.

I also recognize that regardless of coach, this offense and it's personnel have the same weaknesses we had last year - Inconsistent QB, inconsistent WR, OL weakness in pass-pro, and have a tough time with tough defenses. The same team that went 8-4 last year is essentially the same team about to go 8-4 this year. The only difference is who the losses are to and who our coach is. Kentucky dialed up a game plan that was going to be successful against our weaknesses - and got an assist from our team. I don't think that changes with Dan. In fact I think Dan turtles up in that game and we the same result. He did that plenty when he got punched in the mouth. LSU did what LSU does - beat MSU. Same with Bama. UF is the wild card in our 4 losses. But, half the people on this board thought all off season that KSU was going to be a tough test swing game and probably a loss. Same with Auburn. Hell 7, you've sucked off Jimbo all year and thought they were going to beat us and looked how that turned out.

And, I'm not yet sold on Moorhead. There are some things he does I don't like, and he has some learning to do as a HC. I'm taking a wait and see approach because it is patently obvious that we don't have the personnel to run what wants to do. I'm not going to get bent out of shape because I wanted 10-2!!!!!

[msstate7]

No - I'm realistic. Fitz is my guy. But, I also recognize that he is what he has shown us - the best Running QB to have played in the SEC, and a guy who is limited in his passing game. I thought he could advance into a better passer, but he couldn't. I can admit I was wrong and not hold a grudge against the guy like some seem to do. Doesn't mean that I don't support him any less or I'm going to spend my time bashing him because he couldn't meet my arbitrary expectation of what he should be able to do - you do enough of that for all of us 7.

I also recognize that regardless of coach, this offense and it's personnel have the same weaknesses we had last year - Inconsistent QB, inconsistent WR, OL weakness in pass-pro, and have a tough time with tough defenses. The same team that went 8-4 last year is essentially the same team about to go 8-4 this year. The only difference is who the losses are to and who our coach is. Kentucky dialed up a game plan that was going to be successful against our weaknesses - and got an assist from our team. I don't think that changes with Dan. In fact I think Dan turtles up in that game and we the same result. He did that plenty when he got punched in the mouth. LSU did what LSU does - beat MSU. Same with Bama. UF is the wild card in our 4 losses. But, half the people on this board thought all off season that KSU was going to be a tough test swing game and probably a loss. Same with Auburn. Hell, you've sucked off Jimbo all year and thought they were going to beat us and looked how that turned out.

And, I'm not yet sold on Moorhead. There are some things he does I don't like, and he has some learning to do as a HC. I'm taking a wait and see approach because it is patently obvious that we don't have the personnel to run what wants to do. I'm not going to get bent out of shape because I wanted 10-2!!!!!

You should read some of really Clark's posts on the offense. Really is not a basher by any means, but this offense is setting historic records for regression. There is no defense for this offense to be this bad. None, sorry

ETA... go back and check your facts too... I said we'd beat aTm and auburn the week of games. Said we'd get blasted by LSU and bama. We'll beat ark, but not sure bout om yet

[Tbonewannabe]

I agree Jenkins is good and will be on a NFL roster but he has made a lot of mistakes snapping in road games, we are talking what the hell was he thinking snaps and Fitz got hit twice because he missed his block completely this past Saturday. Now maybe he was suppose to block someone else but that guy ran by him twice and got to Fitz. He so close he would not have had to reach very far to grab his nuts.

There has been a few times that Fitz clapped several times but still got a delay of game. Jenkins might be better at guard in the NFL or it could just be a disconnect between him and Fitz. I guess we will see where he plays in the league.

[Homedawg]

No - I'm realistic. Fitz is my guy. But, I also recognize that he is what he has shown us - the best Running QB to have played in the SEC, and a guy who is limited in his passing game. I thought he could advance into a better passer, but he couldn't. I can admit I was wrong and not hold a grudge against the guy like some seem to do. Doesn't mean that I don't support him any less or I'm going to spend my time bashing him because he couldn't meet my arbitrary expectation of what he should be able to do - you do enough of that for all of us 7.

I also recognize that regardless of coach, this offense and it's personnel have the same weaknesses we had last year - Inconsistent QB, inconsistent WR, OL weakness in pass-pro, and have a tough time with tough defenses. The same team that went 8-4 last year is essentially the same team about to go 8-4 this year. The only difference is who the losses are to and who our coach is. Kentucky dialed up a game plan that was going to be successful against our weaknesses - and got an assist from our team. I don't think that changes with Dan. In fact I think Dan turtles up in that game and we the same result. He did that plenty when he got punched in the mouth. LSU did what LSU does - beat MSU. Same with Bama. UF is the wild card in our 4 losses. But, half the people on this board thought all off season that KSU was going to be a tough test swing game and probably a loss. Same with Auburn. Hell 7, you've sucked off Jimbo all year and thought they were going to beat us and looked how that turned out.

And, I'm not yet sold on Moorhead. There are some things he does I don't like, and he has some learning to do as a HC. I'm taking a wait and see approach because it is patently obvious that we don't have the personnel to run what wants to do. I'm not going to get bent out of shape because I wanted 10-2!!!!!

we gave up 13 sacks last year for the season......... so no it wasnt a weakness a year ago. we added a legit play maker at wr, inexcusable to be this bad.

[msstate7]

No - I'm realistic. Fitz is my guy. But, I also recognize that he is what he has shown us - the best Running QB to have played in the SEC, and a guy who is limited in his passing game. I thought he could advance into a better passer, but he couldn't. I can admit I was wrong and not hold a grudge against the guy like some seem to do. Doesn't mean that I don't support him any less or I'm going to spend my time bashing him because he couldn't meet my arbitrary expectation of what he should be able to do - you do enough of that for all of us 7.

I also recognize that regardless of coach, this offense and it's personnel have the same weaknesses we had last year - Inconsistent QB, inconsistent WR, OL weakness in pass-pro, and have a tough time with tough defenses. The same team that went 8-4 last year is essentially the same team about to go 8-4 this year. The only difference is who the losses are to and who our coach is. Kentucky dialed up a game plan that was going to be successful against our weaknesses - and got an assist from our team. I don't think that changes with Dan. In fact I think Dan turtles up in that game and we the same result. He did that plenty when he got punched in the mouth. LSU did what LSU does - beat MSU. Same with Bama. UF is the wild card in our 4 losses. But, half the people on this board thought all off season that KSU was going to be a tough test swing game and probably a loss. Same with Auburn. Hell 7, you've sucked off Jimbo all year and thought they were going to beat us and looked how that turned out.

And, I'm not yet sold on Moorhead. There are some things he does I don't like, and he has some learning to do as a HC. I'm taking a wait and see approach because it is patently obvious that we don't have the personnel to run what wants to do. I'm not going to get bent out of shape because I wanted 10-2!!!!!

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?70565-Gotta-win-this-game

Here you go... called the win over aTm and fitz's big game. Apology accepted

[BrunswickDawg]

You should read some of really Clark's posts on the offense. Really is not a basher by any means, but this offense is setting historic records for regression. There is no defense for this offense to be this bad. None, sorry

ETA... go back and check your facts too... I said we'd beat aTm and auburn the week of games. Said we'd get blasted by LSU and bama. We'll beat ark, but not sure bout om yet

Gee, I'm sorry can't exactly remember everyone of your posts. You beat the Jimbo drum so much it clouded my memory. But, where did you have those games pre-season? I bet both were swing games at best - and probably the difference in 8-4 and 10-2. And Clark has good stuff, and even you do too. All of it is why I'm not sold on Joe. The flip side of that is reality - whether you agree with the direction Joe has taken this season, he is building for his program. It might have added 2 losses to our record this year, it might not have.

[BrunswickDawg]

https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?70565-Gotta-win-this-game

Here you go... called the win over aTm and fitz's big game. Apology accepted

Well, bully for you. Here's your cookie
https://images-gmi-pmc.edge-generalmills.com/087d17eb-500e-4b26-abd1-4f9ffa96a2c6.jpg

[msstate7]

Gee, I'm sorry can't exactly remember everyone of your posts. You beat the Jimbo drum so much it clouded my memory. But, where did you have those games pre-season? I bet both were swing games at best - and probably the difference in 8-4 and 10-2. And Clark has good stuff, and even you do too. All of it is why I'm not sold on Joe. The flip side of that is reality - whether you agree with the direction Joe has taken this season, he is building for his program. It might have added 2 losses to our record this year, it might not have.

Well if you don't remember, maybe you shouldn't state as fact haha

It's not the record that has me the most concerned with joe, it's the anemic offense.

[Tbonewannabe]

You should read some of really Clark's posts on the offense. Really is not a basher by any means, but this offense is setting historic records for regression. There is no defense for this offense to be this bad. None, sorry

ETA... go back and check your facts too... I said we'd beat aTm and auburn the week of games. Said we'd get blasted by LSU and bama. We'll beat ark, but not sure bout om yet

This offense has been rarely in sync this year. The fact is a 10 win season probably left with Mullen. We now need to win our next 2 and we will go to the Outback or possibly Citrus with this year's record. With Mullen we are probably looking at a NY6 game. Everyone agrees that sucks.

Our offense has also gone against the Scoring Defenses that are ranked: #1, #11,#12, #14, #34,#37, #47, and #58. We are about to face #99 and #113. We didn't play #51 UT, #60 Vandy, #70 Mizzou, #76 SC.

So our offense has actually played almost the toughest defenses that they could. KSU is actually #2 in the Big 12 in scoring defense. Saying all that, I am purely in a wait and see mode. If we look like this again next year then Moorhead needs to change something. We, as a fanbase, will not sit around and watch another 4 years of Croom level offense in the SEC. We went through that and learned that sometimes a certain offense just doesn't work in the SEC due to the speed of the athletes.

Moorhead's offense worked in the Big 10 which is probably about as close to SEC level defenses you will find in college football. Hopefully for everyone's sake, the offense works. Big play type offense is what you have to have to beat the Bamas of college football. Mullen has proven that you can't typically grind it out and win. We tried that for 9 years and the closest we got was 31-24. I don't count 2014 25-20 because it was 25-13 until the last minute.

[BrunswickDawg]

Well if you don't remember, maybe you shouldn't state as fact haha

It's not the record that has me the most concerned with joe, it's the anemic offense.

And that's also why I'm not sold on Joe yet. But, I also try to consider what the obstacles to success are. That's all. Call it rationalizing or whatever, but there are just so many variables in sports that impact outcomes and performance I that I don't condemn coaches and players to fan purgatory based on a single season. I need a bigger sample size.

[msstate7]

And that's also why I'm not sold on Joe yet. But, I also try to consider what the obstacles to success are. That's all. Call it rationalizing or whatever, but there are just so many variables in sports that impact outcomes and performance I that I don't condemn coaches and players to fan purgatory based on a single season. I need a bigger sample size.

Did you need a bigger sample size with sirmon? I know this isn't apples to apples, but the results were similar to this year

I will feel much better if we come out and put up 2 30+ games with convincing wins the next 2. 30+ is a low bar, so I'm not asking much at all

[Quaoarsking]

There is a 100% chance that we end up ranked if we finish 9-4. It will be the 15th time in our 115 year history that we finish ranked and only the 2nd (!) time we've finished ranked after being ranked in the preseason.

I'm thrilled we finally have a fanbase that aims high, but 2/3 of the p5 wont finished ranked this year and we probably will. Most national observers will say, "wow Moorhead beat his preseason expectation of #18 in year 1! Good job Joe!"

[Tbonewannabe]

And that's also why I'm not sold on Joe yet. But, I also try to consider what the obstacles to success are. That's all. Call it rationalizing or whatever, but there are just so many variables in sports that impact outcomes and performance I that I don't condemn coaches and players to fan purgatory based on a single season. I need a bigger sample size.

It is also why you can't say, we beat UK and LSU like a drum last year so we should this year. I am guilty of that myself. I thought both were wins in the preseason. I thought LSU, A&M, and UF would probably be toss up games and with Bama and AU as losses. I figured on 9-3 with 10-2 as possible and 8-4 as bottom level. I didn't think Fitz would have as many problems as he has in this offense.

Fitz is still missing wide open guys which was surprising when he threw it to Kylin for the TD. That was the first checkdown I think I have seen this year.

[gravedigger]

8-4 in some years would great but we're talking about this 17 ing year don't try to confuse the issue here. Fatass Moorhead 17'd up this season. You can deodorize it cover it up with leaves but this season still smells like shit! You know it, I know it and the intelligent fan base knows it. Please don't insult us!

The intelligent fanbase didnt lose a bunch of money gambling what they didnt know about.

[Tbonewannabe]

Did you need a bigger sample size with sirmon? I know this isn't apples to apples, but the results were similar to this year

I will feel much better if we come out and put up 2 30+ games with convincing wins the next 2. 30+ is a low bar, so I'm not asking much at all

Slight difference between Sirmon who had NEVER been a Defensive Coordinator and Joe who has been National Offensive Coordinator of the Year twice. Joe has proven that he knows what he is doing in the past. You give someone like that more leeway to see if it is a bump in the road. Joe did the same with Shoop and it worked out really well. Now if next year we still have a QB that can't figure out the offense then Joe has to change something.

If KT and Mayden both can't run the offense after almost 2 years then Joe has issues.

[WPDawg]

It is also why you can't say, we beat UK and LSU like a drum last year so we should this year. I am guilty of that myself. I thought both were wins in the preseason. I thought LSU, A&M, and UF would probably be toss up games and with Bama and AU as losses. I figured on 9-3 with 10-2 as possible and 8-4 as bottom level. I didn't think Fitz would have as many problems as he has in this offense.

Fitz is still missing wide open guys which was surprising when he threw it to Kylin for the TD. That was the first checkdown I think I have seen this year.

Look at replay and Kylin is giving him the "arms up I am wide ass open" signal........ He may have also been screaming he was open but I cant be sure....

Fitz has provided a lot of great highlights and excitement and the record books will show what he achieved. But he just does not seem comfortable working in this year's offense. He is thinking through each play instead of reacting to what he is given. An when not in motion standing in the pocket, he is just not quick enough decision wise or physically to make a quick throw or quick getaway. I am surprised we have not put him rolling out more for Pass/run option. I think having him on the move helps his reaction time (not starting from dead stop in the pocket).

[BrunswickDawg]

Did you need a bigger sample size with sirmon? I know this isn't apples to apples, but the results were similar to this year

I will feel much better if we come out and put up 2 30+ games with convincing wins the next 2. 30+ is a low bar, so I'm not asking much at all

It's not apples to apples. Sirmon was also picked to transition us from a 4-3 to a 3-4 - which everyone recognized normally resulted in regression on defense. I think the difference with Sirmon is that it was consistently bad and got worse. With Joe, the results have been inconsistent. We have destroyed teams with inferior talent. We have beaten a couple of teams with better talent on paper (A&M and Auburn) that have Top 50 defenses; and we have been shut down by 4 Top 15 scoring defenses (and gone 1-3). If you go back and look at the last 10 years - getting shut down by Top 25 scoring defenses has been the norm for us. You can quibble about a TD here or there and what averages are, etc. but the result was still the same. So, I'm on the fence.

Oddly, scoring 30+ a game the next 2 makes a huge difference. We do that and Fitz performs like he did in Oxford in 2016 and against UPig last year - and on paper many outside the fan base will look at the stats and say "meh, about what we expected for MSU".

[msstate7]

It's not apples to apples. Sirmon was also picked to transition us from a 4-3 to a 3-4 - which everyone recognized normally resulted in regression on defense. I think the difference with Sirmon is that it was consistently bad and got worse. With Joe, the results have been inconsistent. We have destroyed teams with inferior talent. We have beaten a couple of teams with better talent on paper (A&M and Auburn) that have Top 50 defenses; and we have been shut down by 4 Top 15 scoring defenses (and gone 1-3). If you go back and look at the last 10 years - getting shut down by Top 25 scoring defenses has been the norm for us. You can quibble about a TD here or there and what averages are, etc. but the result was still the same. So, I'm on the fence.

Oddly, scoring 30+ a game the next 2 makes a huge difference. We do that and Fitz performs like he did in Oxford in 2016 and against UPig last year - and on paper many outside the fan base will look at the stats and say "meh, about what we expected for MSU".

If we score 35 in each game, we'll finish the year at 17.1 ppg in conf. This will be last in sec, and our lowest total since before Mullen. Media had fitz and aeris as preseason 3rd team all sec, and we avg'd 26.3 last season in sec (down 9.2 per game and down 35%)

[NCDawg]

Just this season. Next year I will be thrilled with 8-4.


Thrilled with 8-4? I guess at MS State we shouldn't have great expectations. If and when we can get top notch OL into the program and get them coached properly, we can then compete with the Alabama's and other "big" schools. I think we seem to be getting the DL we need. Pretty obvious in the Alabama game this year how much better their DL was than our OL. They were too quick.

[Tbonewannabe]

If we score 35 in each game, we'll finish the year at 17.1 ppg in conf. This will be last in sec, and our lowest total since before Mullen. Media had fitz and aeris as preseason 3rd team all sec, and we avg'd 26.3 last season in sec (down 9.2 per game and down 35%)

Just curious but where are you getting conference only statistics? I have been looking and can't find them.

[Tbonewannabe]

Thrilled with 8-4? I guess at MS State we shouldn't have great expectations. If and when we can get top notch OL into the program and get them coached properly, we can then compete with the Alabama's and other "big" schools. I think we seem to be getting the DL we need. Pretty obvious in the Alabama game this year how much better their DL was than our OL. They were too quick.

Next year is our typical down year when Bama and LSU are at home so more winnable games are then on the road. You can look at Mullen's 9 years and see the fluctuation. It is hard to win on the road in the SEC.

[msstate7]

Just curious but where are you getting conference only statistics? I have been looking and can't find them.

Www.cfbstats.com

Greatest site ever

[BrunswickDawg]

If we score 35 in each game, we'll finish the year at 17.1 ppg in conf. This will last, and our lowest total since before Mullen. Media had fitz and aeris as preseason 3rd team all sec, and we avg'd 26.3 last season in sec (down 9.2 per game and down 65%)

But, outside of fans trying to make points, who looks at "in conference" as the general stat? I don't think I'd ever looked at much until it became the goalpost for this year's criticisms.
If we score 45 in the next two - and then again in the bowl - we end up at 30.5 for the year. That is something that is entirely plausible in the context of what we have seen so far from this team. It will mean we went from 32 ppg (41st) to 30.5 (about mid-50s - and roughly the same as 2016). That's why I said "meh, about what we expected from MSU".

[Tbonewannabe]

Www.cfbstats.com

Greatest site ever

Awesome, thanks. Just looking around it we averaged 4 points per game against AP top 25 teams and 41 point per game against non ranked teams. At the end of the day, we brought Joe here to put points on the board and give us a chance against Bama. We haven't really had a chance except 1 year in the last decade. Cohen rolled the dice on Joe's offense being the answer. This year seems like a square peg in a round hole due to Fitz's limitations. Whether Joe is just hard headed and doesn't want to run a bastardized version of his offense or he doesn't think it could work otherwise, who knows.

We know if we set up with the AU game plan then we could probably roll over Ark and UM. If we come out and have issues then there will be a lot more noise. Putting up points on the worst 2 defenses in the league will help the league average but it still doesn't answer the question if his offense will work consistently against Good to Great Defenses. We won't know that until either next year.

[BrunswickDawg]

Thrilled with 8-4? I guess at MS State we shouldn't have great expectations. If and when we can get top notch OL into the program and get them coached properly, we can then compete with the Alabama's and other "big" schools. I think we seem to be getting the DL we need. Pretty obvious in the Alabama game this year how much better their DL was than our OL. They were too quick.

Assuming 8-4 this year, 8-4 next year would mean 3 seasons in a row with 8 wins. Something MSU hasn't done since Allyn McKeen from '40-'42. It would mean that the year-to-year floor has been elevated by 5 of the last 6 seasons having had 8 wins or more - something never done in 114 years of MSU football. It would also mean in 2 seasons, Joe would have already equaled the number of back-to-back 8 win seasons that Mullen had.

[Tbonewannabe]

If we score 35 in each game, we'll finish the year at 17.1 ppg in conf. This will be last in sec, and our lowest total since before Mullen. Media had fitz and aeris as preseason 3rd team all sec, and we avg'd 26.3 last season in sec (down 9.2 per game and down 35%)

If we score 41 per game then we end up at 18.3 which is still last in the conference. We are averaging 41 points per game against teams not in the top 25.

[msstate7]

But, outside of fans trying to make points, who looks at "in conference" as the general stat? I don't think I'd ever looked at much until it became the goalpost for this year's criticisms.
If we score 45 in the next two - and then again in the bowl - we end up at 30.5 for the year. That is something that is entirely plausible in the context of what we have seen so far from this team. It will mean we went from 32 ppg (41st) to 30.5 (about mid-50s - and roughly the same as 2016). That's why I said "meh, about what we expected from MSU".

We avg 48.8 OOC and 10.7 in conf. Do you think avg all games gives an accurate representation of how good our offense is?

[99jc]

The intelligent fanbase didnt lose a bunch of money gambling what they didnt know about.

I lost big at the 1st of the season...but made it back and am a little ahead thank you. grt yo head outta MOASS

[Tbonewannabe]

Assuming 8-4 this year, 8-4 next year would mean 3 seasons in a row with 8 wins. Something MSU hasn't done since Allyn McKeen from '40-'42. It would mean that the year-to-year floor has been elevated by 5 of the last 6 seasons having had 8 wins or more - something never done in 114 years of MSU football. It would also mean in 2 seasons, Joe would have already equaled the number of back-to-back 8 win seasons that Mullen had.

Grass is always greener. Mullen left and now we should average more wins per year apparently. I will say this year was the 4 year cycle Mullen was working towards. 2010 to 2014 to 2018. He built his program to truly compete every 4 years which was definitely smart for laying the foundation. He got it where we could make a bowl in the years we weren't truly competing but now everyone wants to compete for it every year even though it has never been done since 1939, 1940, and the National Title year 1941.

[BrunswickDawg]

We avg 48.8 OOC and 10.7 in conf. Do you think avg all games gives an accurate representation of how good our offense is?

Well, it is called an average, so it is an accurate representation of how our offense does over the course of a season.

Again, all of this is why I'm on the fence about Joe. Continuing to give me the same stat in a different form isn't going to make me not sit on the fence. I'm willing to see how this season finishes, and see how we look next season.
If we see the same thing next season, then I'll make 1,000 posts telling everyone 7 was right. Scratch that, I'll put in my signature until we win 8 games again.

[Quaoarsking]

If we finish a season ranked in the AP Poll, I don't particularly care what our stats are. But that's just me.

Maybe one day we'll get to the point where finishing ranked is the baseline and we can start worrying about what rank we are and how many points we scored, but we're not close to there yet.

[Tbonewannabe]

We avg 48.8 OOC and 10.7 in conf. Do you think avg all games gives an accurate representation of how good our offense is?

We are worse than our average by about 7 - 10 points vs top 25 teams. We are better than normal against non ranked teams. I don't know how high those ranked teams defenses were ranked in previous years.

[Tbonewannabe]

Stats are fun. This team is averaging 36.8 points at home with a bad defense left. That is up from 36.0 but Bama was at home last year. Averaging 10.8 points on the road, last year was 27.3. This year's team however faced KSU on the road and they have a top 50 defense, #2 in the Big 12. Also, playing Bama and LSU on the road in the toughest places to play in the SEC.

[BrunswickDawg]

Stats are fun. This team is averaging 36.8 points at home with a bad defense left. That is up from 36.0 but Bama was at home last year. Averaging 10.8 points on the road, last year was 27.3. This year's team however faced KSU on the road and they have a top 50 defense, #2 in the Big 12. Also, playing Bama and LSU on the road in the toughest places to play in the SEC.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.....

[msstate7]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.....

Gotta better way to access a team?

[Tbonewannabe]

Gotta better way to access a team?

Joke
_____
Your head

[Todd4State]

Gotta better way to access a team?

Looking at the entire picture instead of picking out stats that seem to fit your narrative?

[msstate7]

Looking at the entire picture instead of picking out stats that seem to fit your narrative?

I don't have a narrative. I want more than anything for Moorhead to get this offense going. I'm not a proud person... I will be the first to say I was wrong, and be happy about it.

[Tbonewannabe]

I don't have a narrative. I want more than anything for Moorhead to get this offense going. I'm not a proud person... I will be the first to say I was wrong, and be happy about it.

I think more than anything, Fitz has struggled against Good to Great SEC defenses in this offense. We have been ok at home for the most part except UF. Mitchell catches that pass and everything looks different. We have been bad on the road against 3 top 20 teams. All 3 have Great defenses.

There is no use pulling against the rope this year. If next year we have a QB that still can't figure out what he is doing then it is time to worry.