buy or sell-the Bowl game coaching staff would have us 8-2

[tcdog70]

I'm buying all the way.

JoMo has been a serious disappointment.

[ShotgunDawg]

Sell.

SEC defenses would've thrown them a curve ball that they wouldn't be able to handle & all other SEC DCs would've repeated it.

Joe has been a disappointment this year, but I think long term he'll be good.

[thf24]

Not sure lack of game managing experience wouldn't have caught up to that group early on, but no question the offense would have been kinder to Fitz.

[StThierry]

Sell

[Tbonewannabe]

Slow your roll, Sirmon still was coaching that defense. It was obviously coming apart for Petrino and the bowl game was the start. I am not sure how good that Louisville team really was.

[parabrave]

Push. I think Greg knows/knew the strengths of the team and what kind of offense wins in the SEC. Oh yeah add Shoop on the staff.

[Matt3467]

I think Joe will be good in the long run. Also, I doubt there's any chance in the world we have Shoop without Joe.

[dawgday166]

Sell ... D would've been decent to good, but not near as good. If Grantham had stayed it would've been good and maybe very good, but I don't think it would be as good as it is now. Shoop don't need to let up going into these last 2 games.

Shoop has a saying I just heard that I love "We gotta defend every blade of grass". I may have heard that before, but this guy don't like giving up a point. He always thinks they can do better.

[tcdog70]

dammit boys, our D might not have been as good, but our offense would be much better. I think we would be 8-2 at the worst. We stomped Louisville with a skeleton crew for a Staff. This years offense is still confused and it is the tenth game. shitty routes-shitty OL play-shitty play calling. How many third and ones have to fail before JoMo wises up. If you want the running backs to run the ball-just call a play and hand it to them--17 the reads. If we had never threw 1 pass against LSU we win that game. Same with KY. I used to think Dan was too cute but JOMO is worse.

[thf24]

dammit boys, our D might not have been as good, but our offense would be much better. I think we would be 8-2 at the worst. We stomped Louisville with a skeleton crew for a Staff. This years offense is still confused and it is the tenth game. shitty routes-shitty OL play-shitty play calling. How many third and ones have to fail before JoMo wises up. If you want the running backs to run the ball-just call a play and hand it to them--17 the reads. If we had never threw 1 pass against LSU we win that game. Same with KY. I used to think Dan was too cute but JOMO is worse.

Let's back up and try to maintain some intellectual honesty and perspective. We didn't stomp Louisville; we won by 4, scoring 31 points on a Peter Sirmon defense. Yes, it was impressive given that it was a staff of position coaches, but it wasn't a dominating performance by any means, and would have broken down after a few more games due to a lack of experience calling games and making adjustments. Conventional wisdom says it's very unlikely that group would have beaten everyone except LSU and Alabama this year.

[dawgday166]

dammit boys, our D might not have been as good, but our offense would be much better. I think we would be 8-2 at the worst. We stomped Louisville with a skeleton crew for a Staff. This years offense is still confused and it is the tenth game. shitty routes-shitty OL play-shitty play calling. How many third and ones have to fail before JoMo wises up. If you want the running backs to run the ball-just call a play and hand it to them--17 the reads. If we had never threw 1 pass against LSU we win that game. Same with KY. I used to think Dan was too cute but JOMO is worse.

No doubt about it IMO. We have the guys up front to move large chunks of bodies out of the way. But to handle speed rushers off the edge ... not so much. LSU Dline is pretty average and they have no speed rusher either.

[RezDog7]

Buy or sell, we would be 8-2 if we had a cardboard cut out of Dan Mullen on the sideline? Good grief y'all are some miserable people. Just fire Moorhead already if that's what you want do, but you're not even giving the guy a chance. You act like it was a guarantee Mullen would have had us undefeated right now, but the truth is you have no idea. I'll give him another year or two before I would start requesting a life long running backs coach as my head coach. That would be like wanting a life long offensive line coach as my head coach.

[ShotgunDawg]

Buy or sell, we would be 8-2 if we had a cardboard cut out of Dan Mullen on the sideline? Good grief y'all are some miserable people. Just fire Moorhead already if that's what you want do, but you're not even giving the guy a chance. You act like it was a guarantee Mullen would have had us undefeated right now, but the truth is you have no idea. I'll give him another year or two before I would start requesting a life long running backs coach as my head coach. That would be like wanting a life long offensive line coach as my head coach.

Agree. It's absurd.

What's funny is that non of the people complaining have any solutions about how to actually hire a good football coach. Hiring a good football coach is ridiculously hard & there is no road map as to how to do it.

I keep reading Bill Clark, Bill Clark, Bill Clark. Perhaps he'd be great, but Justin Fuente, who was much more thought of is struggling in the ACC, Chip Kelly is 2-8, Scott Frost can't win either.

I just get a kick out of the know it alls that think they could've hired a better guy simply because...... it's funny.

And before you say, Shotgun acts like a know it all. Shotgun doesn't act like a know it all. Shotgun makes fun of posters who do act like they know anything. I am the opposite of a know it all. I admit I know nothing, which frustrates the ones that think they do know something.

[Tbonewannabe]

No doubt about it IMO. We have the guys up front to move large chunks of bodies out of the way. But to handle speed rushers off the edge ... not so much. LSU Dline is pretty average and they have no speed rusher either.

So we should have been able to steamroll Auburn last year where we scored 10 points. We embarrassed LSU last year and it was a night game at Death Valley. If you don't think they were pumped up to shut us down then I don't know what to tell you. UK was also as fired up as I have ever seen them and I have been to the UK game in Lexington the last 4 times.

[Tbonewannabe]

Buy or sell, we would be 8-2 if we had a cardboard cut out of Dan Mullen on the sideline? Good grief y'all are some miserable people. Just fire Moorhead already if that's what you want do, but you're not even giving the guy a chance. You act like it was a guarantee Mullen would have had us undefeated right now, but the truth is you have no idea. I'll give him another year or two before I would start requesting a life long running backs coach as my head coach. That would be like wanting a life long offensive line coach as my head coach.

I can guarantee that Dan would at best be 9-1. Big game Dan doesn't beat Bama, ever. If you don't win at home when Bama is on the 3rd string LBs then you aren't beating Bama.

[RezDog7]

Agree. It's absurd.

What's funny is that non of the people complaining have any solutions about how to actually hire a good football coach. Hiring a good football coach is ridiculously hard & there is no road map as to how to do it.

I keep reading Bill Clark, Bill Clark, Bill Clark. Perhaps he'd be great, but Justin Fuente, who was much more thought of is struggling in the ACC, Chip Kelly is 2-8, Scott Frost can't win either.

I just get a kick out of the know it alls that think they could've hired a better guy simply because...... it's funny.

And before you say, Shotgun acts like a know it all. Shotgun doesn't act like a know it all. Shotgun makes fun of posters who do act like they know anything. I am the opposite of a know it all. I admit I know nothing, which frustrates the ones that think they do know something.

Absolutely. I want to score more points too, but I'm not a coach and don't know the answer. Nobody on this board is either

[RezDog7]

I will say this, I don't remember ever seeing more open receivers than I have this year. I'm also happy to see different plays almost each week based on the team we're playing. Not sayings it's right or wrong but I'm optimistic that JoMo is the right guy for MSU.

[msstate7]

Agree. It's absurd.

What's funny is that non of the people complaining have any solutions about how to actually hire a good football coach. Hiring a good football coach is ridiculously hard & there is no road map as to how to do it.

I keep reading Bill Clark, Bill Clark, Bill Clark. Perhaps he'd be great, but Justin Fuente, who was much more thought of is struggling in the ACC, Chip Kelly is 2-8, Scott Frost can't win either.

I just get a kick out of the know it alls that think they could've hired a better guy simply because...... it's funny.

And before you say, Shotgun acts like a know it all. Shotgun doesn't act like a know it all. Shotgun makes fun of posters who do act like they know anything. I am the opposite of a know it all. I admit I know nothing, which frustrates the ones that think they do know something.

You obviously aren't paying attention to Nebraska. Yes, they were horrible early, but they are coming on big time. They are now the #2 total offense in the big 10 in conf games only (490 yds/game) and #3 scoring offense (33 ppg). They blasted Minnesota, almost beat Ohio state, and blasted Illinois. Their offense is becoming a monster. Really wish we were seeing this type of offensive improvement as the season goes on.

[Commercecomet24]

Agree. It's absurd.

What's funny is that non of the people complaining have any solutions about how to actually hire a good football coach. Hiring a good football coach is ridiculously hard & there is no road map as to how to do it.

I keep reading Bill Clark, Bill Clark, Bill Clark. Perhaps he'd be great, but Justin Fuente, who was much more thought of is struggling in the ACC, Chip Kelly is 2-8, Scott Frost can't win either.

I just get a kick out of the know it alls that think they could've hired a better guy simply because...... it's funny.

And before you say, Shotgun acts like a know it all. Shotgun doesn't act like a know it all. Shotgun makes fun of posters who do act like they know anything. I am the opposite of a know it all. I admit I know nothing, which frustrates the ones that think they do know something.

You know we don't always agree, but you're spot on here.

[RezDog7]

I can guarantee that Dan would at best be 9-1. Big game Dan doesn't beat Bama, ever. If you don't win at home when Bama is on the 3rd string LBs then you aren't beating Bama.

No you can't guarantee that. That dude tucked his tail every time somebody punched him in the mouth. Kentucky wanted that game more than we did. Coaches don't catch or drop wide open passes or throw 4 picks.

[Bothrops]

I'm buying all the way.

JoMo has been a serious disappointment.

Do we need these threads every single day?

[RezDog7]

Do we need these threads every single day?

Exactly, it's absurd. All of this is Brandon Walker's fault for placing ridiculous expectations on our team***

[Jack Lambert]

I am buying that this is the most useless and asinine thread ever and trust me I am a expert on it. Just look at the threads I start. :)

[Tbonewannabe]

I am buying that this is the most useless and asinine thread ever and trust me I am a expert on it. Just look at the threads I start. :)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jack Lambert again.

[Pit Bull]

Sell. At some point fans have to quit beating the dead horse. It is what it is and you can't change it. Look forward to our final two games and try to win them.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm buying all the way.

JoMo has been a serious disappointment.

Sell in bulk.

[Liverpooldawg]

I think the only outcome that would have been almost guaranteed to be different with Mullen would have been Florida, and only because Mullen wouldn't be their coach. Kentucky is better than last year and they ambushed us. That could have easily happened to Mullen too, and in fact it did. We all laughed because we assumed Florida sucked. We caught LSU last year with a bunch of injuries and suspensions. They are better and beating them down there, at night is never a sure thing, esp not for us. We were t going to beat Bama with Mullen. I know we had a lot coming back, but it was coming back from a team that got blasted by Auburn and Georgia and lost to Ole Miss. it's not like we were a juggernaut last year.

[dawgday166]

I think the only outcome that would have been almost guaranteed to be different with Mullen would have been Florida, and only because Mullen wouldn't be their coach. Kentucky is better than last year and they ambushed us. That could have easily happened to Mullen too, and in fact it did. We all laughed because we assumed Florida sucked. We caught LSU last year with a bunch of injuries and suspensions. They are better and beating them down there, at night is never a sure thing, esp not for us. We were t going to beat Bama with Mullen. I know we had a lot coming back, but it was coming back from a team that got blasted by Auburn and Georgia and lost to Ole Miss. it's not like we were a juggernaut last year.

Jrs vs Sr on a team matter a lot. And additional experience usually matters too ... a lot. To go 8-3 with Fitz losing only to SECW, SEC, and Natty champs, who all lost a LOT of Srs or outstanding Jrs ... while we lost almost nothing and upgraded at WR ... we should've been in the hunt this year.

I do agree Mullen probably f***s up against KY then craps he bed when he should win against Bama tho.

[BrunswickDawg]

Jrs vs Sr on a team matter a lot. And additional experience usually matters too ... a lot. To go 8-3 with Fitz losing only to SECW, SEC, and Natty champs, who all lost a LOT of Srs or outstanding Jrs ... while we lost almost nothing and upgraded at WR ... we should've been in the hunt this year.

I do agree Mullen probably f***s up against KY then craps he bed when he should win against Bama tho.

Some times it matters some times it doesn't. It depends on the ceiling of those players. What we are bumping our heads up against is that we have recruited projects and "diamonds in the rough" on offense - or just missed on key positions like WR. At some point that is going to catch up to you. We got lucky for years under Dan that more often then not those guys were truly overlooked talents and not just marginal talents. Well, when you shift your offense and have to learn an entirely new approach you sometimes learn that your talent is marginal - and our upper classmen on offense are marginal. They aren't on defense.

Think back to Howland's first season. Many people thought "these guys are Seniors with talent and have never been coached. Howland will make them instantly better." There were a handful of loudmouths predicting a quick jump back to the NIT and maybe a bubble team. What we found out quickly is those Seniors were already maxing our their talents under Ray. Chicken and Flat Top Fred were still the same guys and Howland only got them 1 more win then Ray had the year before. And there were fans who immediately believed Howland was washed up because of it.

[dawgday166]

Some times it matters some times it doesn't. It depends on the ceiling of those players. What we are bumping our heads up against is that we have recruited projects and "diamonds in the rough" on offense - or just missed on key positions like WR. At some point that is going to catch up to you. We got lucky for years under Dan that more often then not those guys were truly overlooked talents and not just marginal talents. Well, when you shift your offense and have to learn an entirely new approach you sometimes learn that your talent is marginal - and our upper classmen on offense are marginal. They aren't on defense.

Think back to Howland's first season. Many people thought "these guys are Seniors with talent and have never been coached. Howland will make them instantly better." There were a handful of loudmouths predicting a quick jump back to the NIT and maybe a bubble team. What we found out quickly is those Seniors were already maxing our their talents under Ray. Chicken and Flat Top Fred were still the same guys and Howland only got them 1 more win then Ray had the year before. And there were fans who immediately believed Howland was washed up because of it.

Well ... we'll probably just have to disagree. They ain't marginal in talent now and all have been developed. But even "if" they are marginal, they're a helluva lot better than anything Vandy, Arky, KY, and AU have this year. And those teams are all smoking us in points scored. Not just slightly smoking us but a LOT more pts scored in conference.

[msstate7]

Well ... we'll probably just have to disagree. They ain't marginal in talent now and all have been developed. But even "if" they are marginal, they're a helluva lot better than anything Vandy, Arky, KY, and AU have this year. And those teams are all smoking us in points scored. Not just slightly smoking us but a LOT more pts scored in conference.

New coaches in sec point total '17 to '18 in conf...

Ark 26.0 to 22.0 = -4.0
Florida 21.0 to 26.1 = +5.1
Miss st 26.3 to 11.2 = -15.1
Tenn 14.1 to 22.0 = +7.9
aTm = 25.6 to 24.0 = -1.6

[dawgday166]

New coaches in sec point total '17 to '18 in conf...

Ark 26.0 to 22.0 = -4.0
Florida 21.0 to 26.1 = +5.1
Miss st 26.3 to 11.2 = -15.1
Tenn 14.1 to 22.0 = +7.9
aTm = 25.6 to 24.0 = -1.6

Anyone who keeps saying we don't have good, maybe not great, but pretty good talent on O is making excuses for Joe. What I think I may see with Joe is a guy who is on a learning curve, and is probably even more stubborn than Mullen could be ... and that's saying something there. Although he did change somewhat for AU game.

[Cooterpoot]

We have no SEC WRs or TEs. Our QB is a poor passer but good runner. The offense is limited. But, it shouldn’t suck and it does.
The Knox question was just plain stupid.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Absolutely. I want to score more points too, but I'm not a coach and don't know the answer. Nobody on this board is either

How about hand the ball to Aeris on the goal line. To my recollection we haven't tried that yet. RBs need yards. They need carries to get yards. The OL needs to know we are running the ball to get the push to get guys moving downhill. RPO sucks for run blocking, just confused them into pass blocking a run play. Hence, when we run through a hole it only happens on a blitz that vacated that area. None of this plowing the way. Except Auburn game.

[BrunswickDawg]

Well ... we'll probably just have to disagree. They ain't marginal in talent now and all have been developed. But even "if" they are marginal, they're a helluva lot better than anything Vandy, Arky, KY, and AU have this year. And those teams are all smoking us in points scored. Not just slightly smoking us but a LOT more pts scored in conference.

Well, at best they are "system players" - guys whose talents are incomplete and don't translate well to anything other than one particular system. We've seen that for years on our OL. If all you can do as an OL is run block in 1 scheme, you are a marginal talent. As a WR, if all you can do is run a fly or a post and can't get separation in man coverage, you are a marginal talent. If you are a QB who's talent is running and can't elevate your passing game beyond screens and dump passes, you are a marginal talent. Dan recruited guys who fit his system, and developed them to master his system. There is a reason that we have almost zero offensive skill position players on NFL rosters right now. The one skill position player we do have was a generational talent who was a complete player. Who on our offense right now has proven to be able to adapt and play at a high level outside of 1 particular system? We got a shit ton of defensive guys though - in spite of having 800 DC's over the past 10 years.

And, that's not a pass for Joe Mo and what we have done on offense - it's more of a reality check about what we are and have been in terms of offense for the past decade. Was it an improvement over the Croom Coast Offense? Damn right. Did it allow us to compete with more teams than we had previously? Yep. Did it allow us to be able to do anything against Top 25 defenses on a regular basis. Nope. They shut us down. That's why so many were convinced Dan had hit his ceiling here - we weren't recruiting and developing players on offense who could get us to a next level.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

And before you say, Shotgun acts like a know it all. Shotgun doesn't act like a know it all. Shotgun makes fun of posters who do act like they know anything. I am the opposite of a know it all. I admit I know nothing, which frustrates the ones that think they do know something.

Weren't you the guy who could take a player's pitching performance and decipher how his parents had raised him going back to birth? And you knew that a convicted rapist/molester was a good guy (despite not actually knowing the guy). That's pretty much the definition of a guy who knows it all.