If someone had told you prior to this season that this team would be 6-4 after 10

[Saltydog]

games everyone on this board would've been up in arms and would be saying that Slo Mo Sloppy Jo was a bad hire. Now we have sympathizers kissing his ass saying "he doesn't have his QB, they're still learning the system, blah, blah, blah". Did I expect to beat Bama yesterday, "no" but I along with most everyone else here did realistically expect us to having a winning conference record and possibly have a chance to win the West and go to a major bowl. So much for that. It's just depressing.

[Tbonewannabe]

I honestly thought if Dan would have stayed we probably would be 8-2. I didn't expect Fitz to have so much trouble with the offense. 8-4 was the floor for what I thought coming in.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Agreed. I've asked that same question several times. Go back and look at the season prediction thread and you'll see plenty including me that said 7-5, 6-6 means we hired a dumpster fire and 8-4 was the floor.

I will say this, he has done jack shit against the best defenses he has seen. Auburn aint bad on D but they arent what we thought they were when we played them. A&M aint bad either but again, they are not LSU, Bama, or even UF or UK on D. We had no business losing to UF, UK, or LSU. We are better than all of them and we lost all 3.

That said, a win over OM will make everyone have a happy Thanksgiving and a merry Christmas. If he loses one of the last 2 we should move on

[msstate7]

Agreed. I've asked that same question several times. Go back and look at the season prediction thread and you'll see plenty including me that said 7-5, 6-6 means we hired a dumpster fire and 8-4 was the floor.

I will say this, he has done jack shit against the best defenses he has seen. Auburn aint bad on D but they arent what we thought they were when we played them. A&M aint bad either but again, they are not LSU, Bama, or even UF or UK on D. We had no business losing to UF, UK, or LSU. We are better than all of them and we lost all 3.

That said, a win over OM will make everyone have a happy Thanksgiving and a merry Christmas. If he loses one of the last 2 we should move on

Florida defense isn't good. They've been demolished back-to-back by mizzou and South Carolina. Florida was rated highly on defense early bc they played 3 of the worst sec offenses (Kentucky, us, and LSU)

[MetEdDawg]

Salty, is it not even remotely possible that we were wrong preseason?

This board is full of fans who don't get things preseason because very few see the players. The field determines this stuff. Is it not at all possible that our fan base was uninformed as to the difficulties that have transpired regarding Fritz's inability to understand the offense?

Most of the board, including myself, assumed Fitz would just pick it up easily and be ok. Is it not possible that we can take a step back and realize that Fitz missing all that time, having to learn a new offense, and having to take on responsibilities early on that he wasn't capable affected this season?

I'm taking a step back and saying that my 10-2 was an overreach based on my lack of information regarding the change to a different system and how that affected our team, especially at the QB system. Some others have done that as well. Many others have refused to do that. Pride, arrogance, long standing futility and underperformance of an exhausted fan base.

I would be interested to know the age makeup of this fan base and their opinions. I would guess that those in the younger generation (myself) and non lifetime MSU fans (also myself) are the ones more forgiving. I would think the older crowd and the lifelong MSU crowd are probably the ones more pissed off.

Just would be interested to know that breakdown.

[civildawg]

I fear our program is about to drop from 8-9 wins a year to 5-6 wins. If you can?t win more than 8 games with this team then you?re not a good coach

[Quaoarsking]

Yeah, but that was under the false impression that Kentucky and Florida would struggle to get to 6-6. Had I known they would be CFP top 25 teams all year, I wouldn't have thought it was as disastrous.

Still a disappointment. Still potentially a bad hire. But the haters have way overstated their point.

[Saltydog]

for the reasons you suggest. You talk about Fitz and the offense and sure that's true but doesn't some of that fall squarely on Moorhead? He had all spring to look and analyze our personnel and I personally think he tried putting a square peg in a round hole and was hell bent to make us something we're not. Did I expect him to come in and implement exactly what we had, "no" but there's a happy medium somewhere that he didn't adjust too.

For your demographic info, I'm over 40.

[Quaoarsking]

I fear our program is about to drop from 8-9 wins a year to 5-6 wins. If you can?t win more than 8 games with this team then you?re not a good coach

Mullen only won 8 games a year about half the time and only got to 9 once without the bowl game. I think it's a bit overstated to say that he had us as a consistent 8-9 game winner.

[HoopsDawg]

I fear our program is about to drop from 8-9 wins a year to 5-6 wins. If you can?t win more than 8 games with this team then you?re not a good coach

Agree.

[NCDawg]

I fear our program is about to drop from 8-9 wins a year to 5-6 wins. If you can?t win more than 8 games with this team then you?re not a good coach

I think you're probably correct. I note that Pruitt at Tennessee (who Cohen could have hired) is steadily improving the Tennessee team. They beat the heck of Auburn and Kentucky. Sorry to say that I don't see any improvement in our team, and this falls squarely on our HC.

[Saltydog]

So, we won 9 games last year and have 17 starters back but those teams, who had less starters returning and less talent improved their records vastly while we took a step back. What's the variable here? I'll let you decide.

[ScottH]

I think you're probably correct. I note that Pruitt at Tennessee (who Cohen could have hired) is steadily improving the Tennessee team. They beat the heck of Auburn and Kentucky. Sorry to say that I don't see any improvement in our team, and this falls squarely on our HC.

This. ^^^

[yjnkdawg]

I honestly thought if Dan would have stayed we probably would be 8-2. I didn't expect Fitz to have so much trouble with the offense. 8-4 was the floor for what I thought coming in.





I don't like how our season has gone either. Whether DM would be 8-2, at this point, I have no clue. However, that horrendous injury that Fitz suffered in the OM game has effected him mentally on the football field, as well as some physically. Whether some on this board want to believe that or not? Add in new coaches; new offensive scheme; players having to learn the coaches; coaches having to learn the players, and learn what players can do or not do in specific situations throughout the season; dropping passes; bad passes; and then Fitz not being able to get the on the field reps, with our receivers, prior to the actual season that he needed, and our offense has been sputtering against the better defenses. Fitz said he didn't see Thomas running wide open yesterday, and he said that was his fault. I don't think that was due to all these qb checks at the line, as that was the intent of the play call to get the pass off quick and deep to Thomas.

[dawgday166]

for the reasons you suggest. You talk about Fitz and the offense and sure that's true but doesn't some of that fall squarely on Moorhead? He had all spring to look and analyze our personnel and I personally think he tried putting a square peg in a round hole and was hell bent to make us something we're not. Did I expect him to come in and implement exactly what we had, "no" but there's a happy medium somewhere that he didn't adjust too.

For your demographic info, I'm over 40.

What most folks don't realize is within his "system" there are plays that lend to the strength of this team. And the reads can be simplified within his "system" too. But he insists on trying the high flying PSU offense with NFL RBs and WRs and an Oline that most weeks went up against mediocre Dline and LBs. And while we haven't gone up against top tier Ds this year with exception of Bama, we have faced much better Ds than PSU is used to looking at on a weekly basis.

McSorley's completion percentage is 54.3 at 187 yds/game this year. PSU is 10th in Big 10 in passing offense in conference this year. Against Iowa this year McSorley was 11/25 for 167. Against Michigan 5/13 for 83 yds. Those are the 2 best in conference Ds in Big 10. And this with a QB that has been in system 3 years. It seems to me Barkley and the WRs probably made a huge difference last year.

The selling point to me on Joe's offense was that you didn't need as much elite talent cause it was so hard to defend the RPO. That's what everyone was saying at the time anyway. Joe is on video saying that if an Olineman can't physically handle a guy, then kinda shield him or play to that weakness in the RPO game to counter the physical mismatches.

The facts are telling me something different now, and that concerns me a good bit.

[mstatefan91]

I'd have laughed at them. This was a 10-2, 9-3 type team and we are going to be hoping like hell we make 8-4

[DogsofAnarchy]

I fear our program is about to drop from 8-9 wins a year to 5-6 wins. If you can?t win more than 8 games with this team then you?re not a good coach

This is such Bullshit. 8-4 in this league is a fantastic year. Some of you don’t have a damn clue what it’s like to compete in this league. Auburn would love to be 8-4 this year...they have no shot at it. If KY finishes 8-4 it will be the best year they have had in 20 years. The crucial step is to STAY consistent between 7 and 9 wins!! Hopefully have a 10 win season now and then. But the key is not fall off. The next 2 games should tell us a lot about the direction we are going. So hold off on your judgement a little while longer.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Mullen only won 8 games a year about half the time and only got to 9 once without the bowl game. I think it's a bit overstated to say that he had us as a consistent 8-9 game winner.

If we beat Ark and OM then it ties the 2nd best years Mullen ever had. While transiting with a new coach. Its funny to see how the myth of Mullen has grown, you'd think he had us winning 9+ every year. And we've all forgotten that there were a chorus of people claiming we hit our ceiling under Mullen during his last 2-3 seasons.

[cheewgumm]

We?re 2-4 in this league.

[msstate7]

If we beat Ark and OM then it ties the 2nd best years Mullen ever had. While transiting with a new coach. Its funny to see how the myth of Mullen has grown, you'd think he had us winning 9+ every year. And we've all forgotten that there were a chorus of people claiming we hit our ceiling under Mullen during his last 2-3 seasons.

This team's offense is what's making dan legendary. We are the worst offense in the country against our peers

[Political Hack]

Fitz isn't a prototypical QB. He doesn't throw it away when it's not there, he doesn't see pre-snap reads like Drew Brees, and he isn't as elusive or speedy as the Lamar/Vick's of the world. He is a niche QB that worked in CDM's system. It's the same trouble CDM had with Russell. I still think Russell should've been one of the best QB's we've ever had, but he didn't fit with Mullen. Same issue here... Fitz is great at what he does, but what he does doesn't fit with what JoMo demands from his QBs.

[cheewgumm]

I am not a Mullen fan, but...

What?s going to be a wake up call for the people thinking that Morehead is performing on par with Mullen is when all the talent is gone next year.

Mullen won 7-9 or whatever over multiple years, with varying talent levels.

Moorhead is doing it with perhaps the most talented team he?ll ever have.

[IMissJack]

This team's offense is what's making dan legendary. We are the worst offense in the country against our peers

Yep, and the sad part is that we won't have a top 5 defense most years either. If this defense had been a 25th ranked defense with this offense, we would be 5-7 or 6-6.

[Saltydog]

the cold reality of it...?.

[msbulldog]

for the reasons you suggest. You talk about Fitz and the offense and sure that's true but doesn't some of that fall squarely on Moorhead? He had all spring to look and analyze our personnel and I personally think he tried putting a square peg in a round hole and was hell bent to make us something we're not. Did I expect him to come in and implement exactly what we had, "no" but there's a happy medium somewhere that he didn't adjust too.

For your demographic info, I'm over 40.

And you're not real smart and I am way over 40!

[dawgday166]

Fitz isn't a prototypical QB. He doesn't throw it away when it's not there, he doesn't see pre-snap reads like Drew Brees, and he isn't as elusive or speedy as the Lamar/Vick's of the world. He is a niche QB that worked in CDM's system. It's the same trouble CDM had with Russell. I still think Russell should've been one of the best QB's we've ever had, but he didn't fit with Mullen. Same issue here... Fitz is great at what he does, but what he does doesn't fit with what JoMo demands from his QBs.

Still going back to the selling point ... Joe took an average QB, Trace McSorley, and turned him into an all-star. The selling point of his offense was you could produce lots of points with much lesser talent. Yet now we being told he has to get "his guys" in here to run his system. That these guys, which averaged 26.5 in SEC play with much less talented WR corps last year, aren't good enough to run his system. Just not enough talent on this offense.

I hope all of his future guys are 5* guys.

[Quaoarsking]

While obviously this year's defense is very talented and may not be replicated (or it might), this is in all likelihood the least talented offense that Moorhead will ever have in his tenure. Strange how his detractors gloss over this fact.

[mstatefan91]

While obviously this year's defense is very talented and may not be replicated (or it might), this is in all likelihood the least talented offense that Moorhead will ever have in his tenure. Strange how his detractors gloss over this fact.

I'll let someone else take care of this strange take

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

This team's offense is what's making dan legendary. We are the worst offense in the country against our peers

You're right, this offense was tailor made for Mullen. It's like he made up for his recruiting deficiencies by getting players that could specifically work in his offense. We should have hired Knox to continue his offense, no one would have disagreed with that decision

[West Tn Dawg]

I have no problem with those voicing their opinion, rather they think it's mostly the coach or Fitz. The problem is the childish name calling. Some think it makes them look smarter when they voice their opinion and use the cute little names they make up for our coach. Grow up and discuss like a grown up!

[msstate7]

You're right, this offense was tailor made for Mullen. It's like he made up for his recruiting deficiencies by getting players that could specifically work in his offense. We should have hired Knox to continue his offense, no one would have disagreed with that decision
Is Franks tailor made for Mullen's offense? Florida is avg 31 a game this season in sec play after avg 22 last season. 9 points to the positive without a qb that fits his system. We're down 20 points a game this season

[MetEdDawg]

I am not a Mullen fan, but...

What?s going to be a wake up call for the people thinking that Morehead is performing on par with Mullen is when all the talent is gone next year.

Mullen won 7-9 or whatever over multiple years, with varying talent levels.

Moorhead is doing it with perhaps the most talented team he?ll ever have.

Because we realize that one year does not define a coach. I could very easily make an argument that Mullen should have won 7 games his first year and not 5. Laid big eggs against Georgia Tech and Houston and don't tell me those teams were more talented than we were with that defense we had. Plus we blew the LSU game.

Dan underperformed with that team. But a bunch of you said nah it's ok we got to 5 wins. You will never convince me we shouldn't have gone bowling that year. New coaches have to adjust and make changes and that affects the team and everything that happens. Mullen was the right coach, but other coaches could have gotten more out of that team. Learning curve for him cost us a bowl game. But that's where we were at the time.

Moorhead being the head coach now probably cost us victories. I would say 1-2 but no more. But in the long run is the right guy? Well considering the recruiting which has us with a guy like Pickering defending everything we do and the 2020 kids we just committed, I would say that area is much better. Sometimes you have to sacrifice in the now to improve in the long run. I firmly believe that is the case now.

[Dawgfan77]

I think you're probably correct. I note that Pruitt at Tennessee (who Cohen could have hired) is steadily improving the Tennessee team. They beat the heck of Auburn and Kentucky. Sorry to say that I don't see any improvement in our team, and this falls squarely on our HC.

I?m 100% glad we didn?t hire Pruitt! Beyond that we hired a very bad fit for our program. Met and some others think we should give him time. Well folks here is the deal. A shit ton of talent is walking out that door in two weeks and the best we can do is 8 wins. What this tells me is he cannot adapt to his personnel , that he has been overwhelmed in games, hr has no plan of play calling sequence and he cannot implement whatever this offense is

I?m sure joe is a great guy and a decent football coach but he is not cut out to be a HC in the sec. yes we beat auburn and a&m but fact remains that on the road he puckers up and gets his shit kicked in.

We aren?t going to fire him after 8 wins but all you defenders of croomhead will see next year when we only win 5 games

[cheewgumm]

Meted dawg - that?s fair and might happen.

I hope you are right.

[Saltydog]

Mullen came in with a new system and vastly improved the team in year one with Croom's talent, which was bad. JoMo walks in with all this talent and we're worse than we were a year ago. Form your own opinions from there......

[Really Clark?]

While obviously this year's defense is very talented and may not be replicated (or it might), this is in all likelihood the least talented offense that Moorhead will ever have in his tenure. Strange how his detractors gloss over this fact.

The defense is no doubt a lot more talented than the offense. I don?t think anyone is saying it?s comparable. The offense talent is good enough to be league avg at worse with as much as returned. Just like last year. Even in transition it should not drop 15 points in production. Even if we were around 18-21 points per game in conference then that would make sense when struggling to implement a new offense. Even in this league all of the other new coaches are within +/-5 points of the previous staff and Florida is much better. Except us.

Do I think this offense can work better than shown so far? Yes. Do I think the coaches have seriously underperformed with implementing a cohesive plan for the season? Absolutely. It?s too big of swing between horrid and league avg in our conference games. Yes players have to execute but they have shown to be able to produce at a league avg rate prior. No, Moorehead shouldn?t run Mullen?s scheme. Moorehead?s scheme has within it to operate to our players strengths. And I have seen some adjustments.

I actually don?t hold the Bama game against him as much as the other games because I thought the Bama D is starting to round into elite shape. 10-14 points was about I thought we could probably should have scored given the circumstances. But to be dead last...this is a worse drop and swing than we had with Sirmon in defense. Very concerning. Let?s see how the season plays out but I do need to see us produce within a TD vs our next 2 opponents scoring D?s. Or at least be clean and be 30+ the next 2 games.

[Dawgfan77]

Mullen came in with a new system and vastly improved the team in year one with Croom's talent, which was bad. JoMo walks in with all this talent and we're worse than we were a year ago. Form your own opinions from there......

Exactly. The fact he refuses to run the bAll when it?s obvious we can. The fact he continues to call plays that doesn?t put players in a position to succeed. The constant check with me and milking the clock. Inexcusable to think about we had returning talent and we are now DFL. Go on folks tell us how great they system is supposed to be. It maybe that it works fine in the big 10. PSU seems to be ok. Fact remains he is a bad fit for MSU

[MarketingBully]

Florida defense isn't good. They've been demolished back-to-back by mizzou and South Carolina. Florida was rated highly on defense early bc they played 3 of the worst sec offenses (Kentucky, us, and LSU)

Dude, they have a ton of injuries on defense and players out for the year when they played Mizzou and South Carolina. We got their defense at full strength. They are having to start true freshmen in the secondary right now.

[MarketingBully]

Because we realize that one year does not define a coach. I could very easily make an argument that Mullen should have won 7 games his first year and not 5. Laid big eggs against Georgia Tech and Houston and don't tell me those teams were more talented than we were with that defense we had. Plus we blew the LSU game.

Dan underperformed with that team. But a bunch of you said nah it's ok we got to 5 wins. You will never convince me we shouldn't have gone bowling that year. New coaches have to adjust and make changes and that affects the team and everything that happens. Mullen was the right coach, but other coaches could have gotten more out of that team. Learning curve for him cost us a bowl game. But that's where we were at the time.

Moorhead being the head coach now probably cost us victories. I would say 1-2 but no more. But in the long run is the right guy? Well considering the recruiting which has us with a guy like Pickering defending everything we do and the 2020 kids we just committed, I would say that area is much better. Sometimes you have to sacrifice in the now to improve in the long run. I firmly believe that is the case now.

This. Great post.

[msstate7]

Dude, they have a ton of injuries on defense and players out for the year when they played Mizzou and South Carolina. We got their defense at full strength. They are having to start true freshmen in the secondary right now.

We had injuries in the secondary yesterday too.

[Really Clark?]

Because we realize that one year does not define a coach. I could very easily make an argument that Mullen should have won 7 games his first year and not 5. Laid big eggs against Georgia Tech and Houston and don't tell me those teams were more talented than we were with that defense we had. Plus we blew the LSU game.

Dan underperformed with that team. But a bunch of you said nah it's ok we got to 5 wins. You will never convince me we shouldn't have gone bowling that year. New coaches have to adjust and make changes and that affects the team and everything that happens. Mullen was the right coach, but other coaches could have gotten more out of that team. Learning curve for him cost us a bowl game. But that's where we were at the time.

Moorhead being the head coach now probably cost us victories. I would say 1-2 but no more. But in the long run is the right guy? Well considering the recruiting which has us with a guy like Pickering defending everything we do and the 2020 kids we just committed, I would say that area is much better. Sometimes you have to sacrifice in the now to improve in the long run. I firmly believe that is the case now.

Blah...Horrible officiating cost us against Houston. QB was not past line of scrimmage. Still pusses me off.

Love Tyson, he pitches the ball and we beat LSU and Dan had a great plan that game for who we had. And we also knocked off ranked UNM in EB. I think he had a really good first year with a rebuilding program that had to learn how to compete after getting drug the previous year.

[bluelightstar]

I am still pretty undecided on Moorhead (although I lean toward him being a bad hire), but I am curious what he looks like without Nick Fitzgerald. I mean, I'm at the point where I wonder if it's even possible to simplify things enough for Fitz. Not seeing the wide open primary target on a flea flicker. It's almost a one read play.. Sliding short of a first down marker? Ignoring open receivers to throw into double coverage? This is rough stuff.

[MarketingBully]

I am still pretty undecided on Moorhead (although I lean toward him being a bad hire), but I am curious what he looks like without Nick Fitzgerald. I mean, I'm at the point where I wonder if it's even possible to simplify things enough for Fitz. Not seeing the wide open primary target on a flea flicker. It's almost a one read play.. Sliding short of a first down marker? Ignoring open receivers to throw into double coverage? This is rough stuff.

A competent Fitz yesterday and that game is much different.

[Saltydog]

information to the discussion to validate your stance or to debunk mine. Rather you make blanket statements about someone you obviously don't know to make yourself feel better because you can't present a valid argument. That's usually how people like you operate. You know, people way over 40 are at a substantially higher risk for dementia or related diseases.

[dawgday166]

The defense is no doubt a lot more talented than the offense. I don?t think anyone is saying it?s comparable. The offense talent is good enough to be league avg at worse with as much as returned. Just like last year. Even in transition it should not drop 15 points in production. Even if we were around 18-21 points per game in conference then that would make sense when struggling to implement a new offense. Even in this league all of the other new coaches are within +/-5 points of the previous staff and Florida is much better. Except us.

Do I think this offense can work better than shown so far? Yes. Do I think the coaches have seriously underperformed with implementing a cohesive plan for the season? Absolutely. It?s too big of swing between horrid and league avg in our conference games. Yes players have to execute but they have shown to be able to produce at a league avg rate prior. No, Moorehead shouldn?t run Mullen?s scheme. Moorehead?s scheme has within it to operate to our players strengths. And I have seen some adjustments.

I actually don?t hold the Bama game against him as much as the other games because I thought the Bama D is starting to round into elite shape. 10-14 points was about I thought we could probably should have scored given the circumstances. But to be dead last...this is a worse drop and swing than we had with Sirmon in defense. Very concerning. Let?s see how the season plays out but I do need to see us produce within a TD vs our next 2 opponents scoring D?s. Or at least be clean and be 30+ the next 2 games.

Bama isn't an elite defense. We're an elite defense. We're also an inept offense ... regardless of where the blame lies.

RB carries yesterday:

Hill: -2, 4, 38, 4, -4, 5, 2

Aeris: 7, 4, 4, 1, 5

We could've run on them with RBs. Just like last year. Joe doesn't scheme a ground game very well tho. Our scores have to come from 20 yds or farther out with Joe. They have to be explosive.

[NCDawg]

Exactly. The fact he refuses to run the bAll when it?s obvious we can. The fact he continues to call plays that doesn?t put players in a position to succeed. The constant check with me and milking the clock. Inexcusable to think about we had returning talent and we are now DFL. Go on folks tell us how great they system is supposed to be. It maybe that it works fine in the big 10. PSU seems to be ok. Fact remains he is a bad fit for MSU

I agree the constant check and milking the clock throws our offense off kilter. They even snap the ball sometimes when Fitz isn't ready or looking for the snap. Don't understand why our HC keeps thinking this is a good idea.

[MarketingBully]

Bama isn't an elite defense. We're an elite defense. We're also an inept offense ... regardless of where the blame lies.

RB carries yesterday:

Hill: -2, 4, 38, 4, -4, 5, 2

Aeris: 7, 4, 4, 1, 5

We could've run on them with RBs. Just like last year. Joe doesn't scheme a ground game very well tho. Our scores have to come from 20 yds or farther out with Joe. They have to be explosive.

Bama not an elite defense? Are you kidding me?

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Blah...Horrible officiating cost us against Houston. QB was not past line of scrimmage. Still pusses me off.

Love Tyson, he pitches the ball and we beat LSU and Dan had a great plan that game for who we had. And we also knocked off ranked UNM in EB. I think he had a really good first year with a rebuilding program that had to learn how to compete after getting drug the previous year.

That cuts both ways though.

If Osiris catches a wide open pass we have a great chance at beating Florida. If we get a fair shake from the officials and play simple pitch and catch on the flea flicker against Bama then we at least give them a run for their money.

[Really Clark?]

Bama isn't an elite defense. We're an elite defense. We're also an inept offense ... regardless of where the blame lies.

RB carries yesterday:

Hill: -2, 4, 38, 4, -4, 5, 2

Aeris: 7, 4, 4, 1, 5

We could've run on them with RBs. Just like last year. Joe doesn't scheme a ground game very well tho. Our scores have to come from 20 yds or farther out with Joe. They have to be explosive.

I said rounding into an elite defense, not that they have been or all the way there yet but the last 4 games it has been tightening to that level. And now lead the conference in scoring D for conference games. We are elite, I agree and probably as good or better than the 99 defense considering the competition and offenses of today.

[dawgday166]

Bama not an elite defense? Are you kidding me?

No ... I'm not. We could've blocked their front 7 straight on yesterday. And when we didn't do Joe's patented "lets telegraph a QB run", we did block them straight on. The only part of Mullen's offense Joe has kept in his repertoire is that QB draw/run or whatever. And that's the part of Mullen's offense I hated the most.

Bama has played the bottom feeders in offense in the SEC this year. Until yesterday, I didn't think we had what I call an elite D, but after yesterday I was wrong. We can play D and our D staff is exceptional.

[MetEdDawg]

Blah...Horrible officiating cost us against Houston. QB was not past line of scrimmage. Still pusses me off.

Love Tyson, he pitches the ball and we beat LSU and Dan had a great plan that game for who we had. And we also knocked off ranked UNM in EB. I think he had a really good first year with a rebuilding program that had to learn how to compete after getting drug the previous year.

Hmmmm. So if Tyson had made a better play and understood the system and the reads better we would have won. Just wanted to make sure I read that correctly. Tyson cost us a game according to a lot of fans. But some think Fitz isn't to blame for losing us games this year. Interesting....

Also interesting is that OM didn't finish the season ranked yet Dan gets credited by a lot of fans for a ranked win. But Moorhead beats a ranked TAMU and Auburn in year 1 and those don't count because "those teams suck".

[Matt3467]

Fitz isn't a prototypical QB. He doesn't throw it away when it's not there, he doesn't see pre-snap reads like Drew Brees, and he isn't as elusive or speedy as the Lamar/Vick's of the world. He is a niche QB that worked in CDM's system. It's the same trouble CDM had with Russell. I still think Russell should've been one of the best QB's we've ever had, but he didn't fit with Mullen. Same issue here... Fitz is great at what he does, but what he does doesn't fit with what JoMo demands from his QBs.

Fitz isn't a QB. Mentally he's not capable of being the QB this offense needs. If Moorhead had Tyler Russell I believe this offense would take off. Also, Russell was a Croom recruit. Mullen never recruited a prototypical QB. He always recruited athletes that could improvise and check down.

[Really Clark?]

Hmmmm. So if Tyson had made a better play and understood the system and the reads better we would have won. Just wanted to make sure I read that correctly. Tyson cost us a game according to a lot of fans. But some think Fitz isn't to blame for losing us games this year. Interesting....

We also score 26 that game with him operating the game plan of a first year HC that was schematically a world apart from what we did previously and we adapted with a lot less talent than we have now. Show me where I haven’t said execution is also a problem. But there is a big difference in missing a read with a chance to win after scoring 26 points compared to not even putting players with their skill sets in position to score 12 points on avg in league. Get out of here with that

[hacker]

Hmmmm. So if Tyson had made a better play and understood the system and the reads better we would have won. Just wanted to make sure I read that correctly. Tyson cost us a game according to a lot of fans. But some think Fitz isn't to blame for losing us games this year. Interesting....

Also interesting is that OM didn't finish the season ranked yet Dan gets credited by a lot of fans for a ranked win. But Moorhead beats a ranked TAMU and Auburn in year 1 and those don't count because "those teams suck".

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MetEdDawg again.

[msstate7]

We also score 26 that game with him operating the game plan of a first year HC that was schematically a world apart from what we did previously and we adapted with a lot less talent than we have now. Show me where I haven’t said execution is also a problem. But there is a big difference in missing a read with a chance to win after scoring 26 points compared to not even putting players with their skill sets in position to score 12 points on avg in league. Get out of here with that

It's useless. Met will never give Moorhead credit for this offensive disaster. Everyone's fault but the guy in charge

[MetEdDawg]

We also score 26 that game with him operating the game plan of a first year HC that was schematically a world apart from what we did previously and we adapted with a lot less talent than we have now. Show me where I haven’t said execution is also a problem. But there is a big difference in missing a read with a chance to win after scoring 26 points compared to not even putting players with their skill sets in position to score 12 points on avg in league. Get out of here with that

How many points were we scoring under Croom? Welcome to why his ass got fired. There was nothing for Mullen to undo because nothing got done. I will also add that Tyson Lee for Mullen's system fit way better than Fitz fits Moorhead's. Oh and Tyson had an entire offseason with Mullen. Fitz, due to his injury, had only summer to actually run the offense. And don't think the fact Nick was in Mullen's system 4 years compared to Tyson being in Croom's system only 1 didn't make a huge difference in them being able to modify and adjust to a new offense more easily. Makes a huge difference as we've seen.

[Quaoarsking]

I'll let someone else take care of this strange take

Let's assume that Moorhead is here for 9 years like Dan was.

I doubt that any of years 2-9 will have worse WRs than this year. I doubt that any of years 2-9 will have a worse performing QB than this year. In fact, I think those are pretty safe assumptions unless Moorhead is a total bust at recruiting.

OL and RB are pretty good this year already and should stay good his entire tenure.

[msstate7]

How many points were we scoring under Croom? Welcome to why his ass got fired. There was nothing for Mullen to undo because nothing got done. I will also add that Tyson Lee for Mullen's system fit way better than Fitz fits Moorhead's. Oh and Tyson had an entire offseason with Mullen. Fitz, due to his injury, had only summer to actually run the offense. And don't think the fact Nick was in Mullen's system 4 years compared to attain being in Croom's system only 1 didn't make a huge difference in being able to modify to a new offense more easily. Makes a huge difference as we've seen.

What about Mullen taking Franks (terrible fit for his offense) and scoring 30 a game in sec games?

[phatdog]

Sloppy has the most talented team in my 61 years and at best he goes 8-4. He's not an SEC coach. His offensive plays take too long to develop against SEC speed. So damn many mistakes show a lack of discipline. We're ****ed.

[deadheaddawg]

OP is an idiot.

I figured 9-3. We are one game off.

Seriously. The guy that started this thread doesn't have a clue

[MetEdDawg]

It's useless. Met will never give Moorhead credit for this offensive disaster. Everyone's fault but the guy in charge


Here's the thing. That's so false. Of course Moorhead carries some blame and I never said he hasn't. I just choose to believe that the majority of it doesn't go to him. You and others choose the opposite.

But you can't just change everything you do to fit one QB and you can't do it very quickly. Moorhead has a learning curve. Some of you didn't think he would. That's your fault for thinking that. Jimbo is getting his ass learning curved right now. He's gonna win as many games as Sumlin got fired for.

Moorhead was brought here to run and implement his offense. Only after all of spring and all of summer could he possibly have learned that Fitz couldn't carry the load. So now in the middle of his first year he's having to adjust on the fly. Of course that's gonna cause us to be worse than expected. Dude had to implement everything to figure out Fitz couldn't handle it. Then undo it all and modify it mid season. And y'all think that's Moorhead's fault. Of course it's gonna look bad. It's not his offense. It's a bastardized version of it.

The problem is we are fighting to place blame, not seek understanding as to why this lends itself more to an anomaly. This isn't really a blame game. Moorhead was put into a situation where the leader of his team, the most important player on the field, missed until summer. Fitz was put into a position where his HC brought an offense he couldn't execute. Now they are working to strike a balance for both of them. Why does that make Moorhead incompetent or the wrong guy?

[MetEdDawg]

What about Mullen taking Franks (terrible fit for his offense) and scoring 30 a game in sec games?

I would say 9 years of head coaching experience in the SEC and great familiarity with the personnel and the coaching tendencies of the teams he was playing contributed significantly to that. And believe it or not, but keeping a great deal of that staff probably elevated his ability to be successful short term. Long term theunwill suck, but having worked so long with that staff gives him a decided advantage going to a new school.

Additionally, Mullen went to a school he was at for a consider period of time. Knows the culture and the standard. Plus Franks is perfect for that system. He was no passer like McElwain tried to make him. He is a Mullen QB.

[NCDawg]

Let's assume that Moorhead is here for 9 years like Dan was.

I doubt that any of years 2-9 will have worse WRs than this year. I doubt that any of years 2-9 will have a worse performing QB than this year. In fact, I think those are pretty safe assumptions unless Moorhead is a total bust at recruiting.

OL and RB are pretty good this year already and should stay good his entire tenure.

If all the assumptions you make come true, yes, we could be pretty good. Unfortunately, I doubt if that is reality.

[Really Clark?]

How many points were we scoring under Croom? Welcome to why his ass got fired. There was nothing for Mullen to undo because nothing got done. I will also add that Tyson Lee for Mullen's system fit way better than Fitz fits Moorhead's. Oh and Tyson had an entire offseason with Mullen. Fitz, due to his injury, had only summer to actually run the offense. And don't think the fact Nick was in Mullen's system 4 years compared to Tyson being in Croom's system only 1 didn't make a huge difference in them being able to modify and adjust to a new offense more easily. Makes a huge difference as we've seen.

Ok, if you can?t acknowledge that difference in schemes between Croom to Mullen and try to draw a comparison to Mullen to Moorehead than you are just being dishonest with the debate. Much larger scheme difference change for Mullen?s first year. And no, Tyson was not a better fit for Mullen than Fitz for Moorehead, it can be your opinion but Moorehead?s own scheme and plays in his system could have been fitted better to our personnel. It?s there. Now if you want to debate if Moorehead?s teaching and implementing is the bigger issue or not understanding what we can do or the QB and Ol and WR not reading things properly, fine. All that?s part of the issue but Tyson didn?t fit better, Mullen seems to be much better at adapting so far.

And I?m about tired of this idea that Fitz didn?t do anything all spring. He ran plays, did classroom study, was on the field in the spring. He was limited but he didn?t just show up in the summer to start learning. That?s just false.

[msstate7]

I would say 9 years of head coaching experience in the SEC and great familiarity with the personnel and the coaching tendencies of the teams he was playing contributed significantly to that. And believe it or not, but keeping a great deal of that staff probably elevated his ability to be successful short term. Long term theunwill suck, but having worked so long with that staff gives him a decided advantage going to a new school.

Additionally, Mullen went to a school he was at for a consider period of time. Knows the culture and the standard. Plus Franks is perfect for that system. He was no passer like McElwain tried to make him. He is a Mullen QB.

Really? Franks has 140 career rushes for 229 yards. Jeez... have you ever watched him play? Perfect fit... that's hilarious

[msstate7]

Ok, if you can?t acknowledge that difference in schemes between Croom to Mullen and try to draw a comparison to Mullen to Moorehead than you are just being dishonest with the debate. Much larger scheme difference change for Mullen?s first year. And no, Tyson was not a better fit for Mullen than Fitz for Moorehead, it can be your opinion but Moorehead?s own scheme and plays in his system could have been fitted better to our personnel. It?s there. Now if you want to debate if Moorehead?s teaching and implementing is the bigger issue or not understanding what we can do or the QB and Ol and WR not reading things properly, fine. All that?s part of the issue but Tyson didn?t fit better, Mullen seems to be much better at adapting so far.

And I?m about tired of this idea that Fitz didn?t do anything all spring. He ran plays, did classroom study, was on the field in the spring. He was limited but he didn?t just show up in the summer to start learning. That?s just false.

Moorhead said no one had ever picked his offense up so fast. Joe had no idea we were this bad, and that is the most concerning part

[Really Clark?]

I would say 9 years of head coaching experience in the SEC and great familiarity with the personnel and the coaching tendencies of the teams he was playing contributed significantly to that. And believe it or not, but keeping a great deal of that staff probably elevated his ability to be successful short term. Long term theunwill suck, but having worked so long with that staff gives him a decided advantage going to a new school.

Additionally, Mullen went to a school he was at for a consider period of time. Knows the culture and the standard. Plus Franks is perfect for that system. He was no passer like McElwain tried to make him. He is a Mullen QB.

Mullen’s first job he scored how many per game in conference? 22.5 points per game...double what we have produced so far with a losing team, less talent and QB that did not fit properly

[DancingRabbit]

Where would Dan's last 4 offense classes land in conference recruiting rankings? 10th or 11th?

Joe has made more rookie mistakes than he should have but if we finish 8-4 we're only about 1 game off schedule. Vegas and FPI had us at 8.5 wins pre-season.

If we finish the season and recruiting strong then I'm optimistic going forward.

[msstate7]

Where would Dan's last 4 offense classes land in conference recruiting rankings? 10th or 11th?

Joe has made more rookie mistakes than he should have but if we finish 8-4 we're only about 1 game off schedule. Vegas and FPI had us at 8.5 wins pre-season.

If we finish the season and recruiting strong then I'm optimistic going forward.

Well guess what... we 10th in the sec this year in recruiting too, and it's defense heavy as far as upper talent

[dawgday166]

Where would Dan's last 4 offense classes land in conference recruiting rankings? 10th or 11th?

Joe has made more rookie mistakes than he should have but if we finish 8-4 we're only about 1 game off schedule. Vegas and FPI had us at 8.5 wins pre-season.

If we finish the season and recruiting strong then I'm optimistic going forward.

Look at Penn State's. Then look at McSorley's stats this year ... especially against the Michigan & Iowa Ds. Look at their overall in conference total offense too.

Based on recruiting rankings ... Penn St should be lighting it up this year on offense. Especially with a brilliant, quick decision making QB that has been in this system 3 years. ***

[hacker]

Look at Penn State's. Then look at McSorley's stats this year ... especially against the Michigan & Iowa Ds. Look at their overall in conference total offense too.

Based on recruiting rankings ... Penn St should be lighting it up this year on offense. Especially with a brilliant, quick decision making QB that has been in this system 3 years. ***

You can just as easily make the point that they actually miss Moorhead's playcalling. SMH

[Really Clark?]

Where would Dan's last 4 offense classes land in conference recruiting rankings? 10th or 11th?

Joe has made more rookie mistakes than he should have but if we finish 8-4 we're only about 1 game off schedule. Vegas and FPI had us at 8.5 wins pre-season.

If we finish the season and recruiting strong then I'm optimistic going forward.

See it’s the win record with this defense and the disjointed offensive output that is really odd. A team held to less than 10 points 4 times or more in a season usually are losing teams. Like 90% of the time. And a lot of times it’s a 3-4 win type of team. Teams that finish at last in the league scoring usually are losing programs.

So are we good enough with what we have and can do offensively that the players can execute regardless offensively enough against weak teams to make the win and losses better than the coach deserves? Or is just a very odd and disjointed trend that will correct to the norm in the following years? Because a team losing 15 points in production (or giving up additional 15 points if in the defensive side) just doesn’t normally win 8 games. We are winning above what we should offensively. And special teams is not picking up the slack either. Defense is elite which obviously accounts for some but it’s not like we are having to win a lot of 17-14 type games.

When you have a change I can see a regression of up to 5 points, not what you would have hoped for but completely understandable. And I’ve seen people bring up the 2011 season when Mullen had some of the same type of issues but we had to go to our third string QB at times that year as well because of injury and freshman learning curve. Not to mention the caliber of defenses in that season were statistically some of the best in history. Bama and LSU are good this year but not 2011 good.

There are some very odd anomalies that don’t really make sense as far has the win loss record goes. Really really interested to see what our last 3 games look like. I want this to work with Moorehead but just have these really bad games also glaring at me. And honestly I put Bama behind the other 3...even though it’s our first shut out since Croom...we scored 7 and think we get 10-14 yesterday if things played out properly. Not winning the game but 21-7, 24-10 was what the game looked like to me yesterday.

[dawgday166]

You can just as easily make the point that they actually miss Moorhead's playcalling. SMH

Sure you can ... and I might make that point if I thought he called good plays. But he doesn't quite often IMO. I think this offense needs elite skill position talent. I think the difference is Barkley and those WRs. Penn St went from 2 to 10 in total offense in one year without Moorhead, or Barkley & Co. MSU went from 7 to 14 (and a very abysmal 14 at that) from Mullen to Moorhead.

The whole selling point of this offense was ... it equalized the talent gap between your team and the other team cause of the RPO. It was almost guaranteed to work with any group of playerr ... it was that good of a scheme. That hasn't been the case here. I believe PSU #2 in Big 10 last year to be due largely to the talent at PSU last year.

[biggun]

Hmmmm. So if Tyson had made a better play and understood the system and the reads better we would have won. Just wanted to make sure I read that correctly. Tyson cost us a game according to a lot of fans. But some think Fitz isn't to blame for losing us games this year. Interesting....

Also interesting is that OM didn't finish the season ranked yet Dan gets credited by a lot of fans for a ranked win. But Moorhead beats a ranked TAMU and Auburn in year 1 and those don't count because "those teams suck".

Believe they did, They won the Cotton Bowl

[Johnson85]

games everyone on this board would've been up in arms and would be saying that Slo Mo Sloppy Jo was a bad hire. Now we have sympathizers kissing his ass saying "he doesn't have his QB, they're still learning the system, blah, blah, blah". Did I expect to beat Bama yesterday, "no" but I along with most everyone else here did realistically expect us to having a winning conference record and possibly have a chance to win the West and go to a major bowl. So much for that. It's just depressing.
Imagine the reaction if you'd said that we'd be 8-4 and auburn would be garbage, and a&m and Florida would be average as expected.

People would have assumed that every an on our roster got hurt and that we were just running wild cat 100% of the time with Hill and williams