Anybody know what next year's baseball lineup is gonna look like?

[cbrunt29]

Whose gonna replace Frazier and Renfroe?

[Political Hack]

this should turn into a good thread. I've been wondering the same.

[messageboardsuperhero]

There are a ton of great options all over the field, and with this just being the second week of fall scrimmages, I don't think anyone really knows. If you put a gun to my head and told me to fill in a lineup card right now:

1- Vickerson
2- Detz
3- Pirtle
4- Rea
5- Garner
6- Bradford
7- Hann
8- Humphreys
9- Robson

This is a pretty rough guess, but it could look something like this. I still expect Walker, Henderson, and Armstrong (he's been crushing the ball) to play big rolls, and Britton (looks very improved) and Heck should factor in as well. Brent Rooker, Gavin Collins, Dylan Ingram, Joey Swinarski, and some other freshmen will play as well.

At the end of the day, I expect us to be at least as good offensively next year. It seems like everyone in our lineup is capable of hitting .280+, and there is more power top to bottom than last year. That being said, a lot of these guys will be young and some will be in their first years, so I expect them to sputter some at the start of SEC play and improve as the season goes along. We should be playing our best ball at the end of the year, as usual under Cohen.

[Will James]

I'd like to maybe see...

DH - Detz
3B - Humphreys
SS - Pirtle
1B - Rea
C - Garner
CF - Bradford
2B - Hann
LF - Henderson
RF - Vickerson

Who the hell knows who catches though.. I have no idea who the best defensive catcher is. I have no idea what these guys can do at the plate (although we should have a small look at this at the end of fall practice) If someone else catches then Detz and Humphreys change positions with Garner DHing. I have no idea if Vickerson can produce THIS year or will he have a Robson-like adjustment season.

We have all of fall and non-con to sort that shit out but just throwing something out there I like my lineup.

[cbrunt29]

I think it'll go something like this:

1.) RF. Armstrong
2.) 3B. Detz
3.) 2b. Pirtle
4.) 1B. Rea
5.) Cf. Bradford
6.) LF. Henderson
7.) SS. Robson
8.) or 9.) whoever our Catcher is and the DH who I think might be hann

Anybody feel free to correct me on this.

[CadaverDawg]

I know that regardless of who we throw out there, I won't question a lineup this year like I did last year. I was way off on Pirtle, and I could end up being as far off on Armstrong by all accounts. I'm just pumped that we have tons of bad ass options and a bad ass Coach to get them experience and then get the best ones out there when it matters most.

When I think about football, I second guess damn near everything our coach does. When I think about baseball, I kick my feet up and smile.

[Will James]

I think it'll go something like this:

1.) RF. Armstrong
2.) 3B. Detz
3.) 2b. Pirtle
4.) 1B. Rea
5.) Cf. Bradford
6.) LF. Henderson
7.) SS. Robson
8.) or 9.) whoever our Catcher is and the DH

Anybody feel free to correct me on this.

robson aint a ss

dunno about armstrong leading off (lead team in k% last yr)

[MsStateBaseball]

There won't be a set lineup. Lots of options.
1B-Rea
2B-Pirtle
SS-Heck/Hann
3B-Detz/Humphreys
C-Garner/Walker
LF-Henderson/Robson
CF-Bradford/Armstrong
RF-Armstrong/Henderson
DH-Humphreys/Detz

I expect Gavin Collins when he gets back from injury to really push the other 2. Vickerson has done well. Britton is doing good. Lots to mix and match versus left and right.

[bully99]

1b Rea
2b Pirtle
3b Humphries
ss. Hahn
c. Walker
Lf. Robson
Cf. Henderson
rf. Swinarski
Dh Garner

I think we'll all be wrong because some of these guys won't even be on team come spring.

[Coach34]

Detz needs to bat 2nd
Rea needs to hit 4th
Garner is very likely to be in the middle of the order
Robson-Vickerson could be a platoon leadoff- depending on Righty-Lefty
Armstrong still needs to hit in the bottom 1/3 of the order regardless of how well he is hitting it this Fall

[cbrunt29]

Maybe switch Pirtle and Robson? Could that work?

[Will James]

Robson-Vickerson could be a platoon leadoff- depending on Righty-Leftyl

If they can give me a .410 OBP I'll take it. No need to sacrifice OBP for speed if they aren't getting on. 1st 2nd and 4th are your most important lineup spots.

Really hoping Detz is leading us off. You can have Jake Vick in the 9 hole as second leadoff.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I'd like to maybe see...

DH - Detz
3B - Humphreys
SS - Pirtle
1B - Rea
C - Garner
CF - Bradford
2B - Hann
LF - Henderson
RF - Vickerson

Who the hell knows who catches though.. I have no idea who the best defensive catcher is. I have no idea what these guys can do at the plate (although we should have a small look at this at the end of fall practice) If someone else catches then Detz and Humphreys change positions with Garner DHing. I have no idea if Vickerson can produce THIS year or will he have a Robson-like adjustment season.

We have all of fall and non-con to sort that shit out but just throwing something out there I like my lineup.

I liked Detz a lot as the leadoff guy last year because of his OBP, but Vickerson has shown in JUCO and in the fall that he can get on base, avoid striking out, and can really run as well. Of course JUCO ain't the SEC, so he'll most definitely need an adjustment period. I doubt Vickerson leads off until later in the season, but he's my pick for the 1 hole by the end of the year.

I do think Vickerson and Detz together will make us damn good at the 1 and 2 by the end of the year.

[Coach34]

If they can give me a .410 OBP I'll take it. No need to sacrifice OBP for speed if they aren't getting on. 1st 2nd and 4th are your most important lineup spots.

Really hoping Detz is leading us off. You can have Jake Vick in the 9 hole as second leadoff.

you can give me all the metrics you want- Detz doesnt need to leadoff. He is a perfect 2 hole guy. Perfect.

[AlSwearengen]

you can give me all the metrics you want- Detz doesnt need to leadoff. He is a perfect 2 hole guy. Perfect.

Exactly. Detz handles the bat like a perfect 2 hole hitter. Rarely swings and misses and hits alot of line drives. He is also slow as mud, which isn't good for a leadoff hitter.

[CadaverDawg]

I liked Detz a lot as the leadoff guy last year because of his OBP, but Vickerson has shown in JUCO and in the fall that he can get on base, avoid striking out, and can really run as well. Of course JUCO ain't the SEC, so he'll most definitely need an adjustment period. I doubt Vickerson leads off until later in the season, but he's my pick for the 1 hole by the end of the year.

I do think Vickerson and Detz together will make us damn good at the 1 and 2 by the end of the year.

Detz never led off did he?

I like Detz in the 2 hole due to better speed in the leadoff. But if we don't have a faster guy in the leadoff with a good OBP....I would put Detz there, bc he is an on base machine. Doesn't matter how fast you are if you don't get on base. Hopefully Detz didn't switch to the Frazier "swing at everything" approach. Unless he hits as good as Frazier, that is.

[Will James]

Doesn't matter how fast you are if you don't get on base.

Yessir

Robson OBP - .297 Detz OBP - .449

Speed at leadoff is just an old meme. See Matt Carpenter this year for the Cards

[Coach34]

Robson was a true freshman- he is expected to improve this year

[messageboardsuperhero]

Detz never led off did he?

No, but I wanted him to. I probably should have said I liked the idea of him leading off last year.

[CadaverDawg]

No, but I wanted him to. I probably should have said I liked the idea of him leading off last year.

Yea, he and Frazier should have probably swapped last year, because Frazier only saw about 1-2 pitches per at bat it seemed. But then again, I can't really complain since we made it to the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. Yep, still feels good saying that

[CadaverDawg]

Maybe switch Pirtle and Robson? Could that work?

Are you confusing Hann and Robson? Or do you just have no clue what you're talking about

[Will James]

Robson was a true freshman- he is expected to improve this year

No doubt but Detz was 4th in the SEC in on base percentage. I'd maybe put Pirtle 1 and Detz 2 cause they'll both get on for Hump Rea and Garner 3-4-5. But those 5 have to be 1-5

[Lefthandersrule]

If Garner keeps it up he will bat behind Wes to protect.

[Todd4State]

Yessir

Robson OBP - .297 Detz OBP - .449

Speed at leadoff is just an old meme. See Matt Carpenter this year for the Cards

Well, the Cardinals don't have speed anywhere. Other than Jon Jay- and if he leads off, Matheny needs to have his head examined. I think in a perfect world you would have someone that can get on base and run at both one and two. Whomever hits in the number two spot needs to be able to handle the bat and hit with two strikes. It allows you to do a lot more things- like hit and running. If your leadoff guy can get on and is a legit threat to steal- then you have even more options.

As far as MSU from what I have seen with Vickerson- I would lead him off because he makes contact and gets on similar to Detz and Frazier in his sophomore year- but he has the speed element that Detz doesn't have. Detz proved last year he was a good number two hitter and he rarely strikes out, can hit with two strikes and he's a good hit and run guy.

You have a guy like Vickerson trying to steal a base while you're trying to pitch to a guy like Detz who you know is going to battle you and probably isn't going to strike out- that's a PAIN for a pitcher and a catcher to deal with.

Then after they wreak havoc you have to deal with someone like Rea, Pirtle, Garner or Humphries- and three of those guys are legit threats to hit a home run.

And remember- you're dealing with amateur pitchers here who aren't mature MLB pitchers. They're much more prone to mistakes and letting things bother them. And if we can get the starting pitcher out of the game- most teams don't have deep bullpens like we have had the past 2-3 years. See Ole Miss last year- they made a regional and weren't bad. But when we got in their bullpen we tagged them. That in a nutshell is why I like aggressive baseball with a balanced lineup with power and speed. It just gives you more options and more things for the other team to worry about.

All of that to say that you do what your players can do- and that determines your offensive style. But I do think most managers and coaches would prefer a guy that can get on and steal bases at the lead off spot if they can get someone that can do it.

[Coach34]

No doubt but Detz was 4th in the SEC in on base percentage. I'd maybe put Pirtle 1 and Detz 2 cause they'll both get on for Hump Rea and Garner 3-4-5. But those 5 have to be 1-5

I dont see Humphries hitting in the top 5- not with what we have returning

[Will James]

And I think #2 needs to be similar to cleanup but the lesser power of the 2. Not a big believer in "bat handling" or much hitting and running. Especially in the top of the order. Pirtle would be good here with Hump 3rd.

[Will James]

I dont see Humphries hitting in the top 5- not with what we have returning

Who u got 1-5

[Todd4State]

C- Garner. I usually say that guys don't win jobs in the fall- well, he is the exception.
1B- Rea
2B-Heck, Hann, Britton
3B- Detz and Humphries- I prefer Humphries.
SS- Pirtle
LF- Demarcus/Robson
CF- CT/Robson/Armstrong
RF- Vickerson/Humphries/Armstrong
DH- Detz/CT

Rotation- I think we are going to piggyback starters again.

Friday- Woodruff/Hudson
Saturday- Bracewell/Lindgren
Sunday- Fitts/Young

Or something like that.

[Coach34]

And I think #2 needs to be similar to cleanup but the lesser power of the 2. Not a big believer in "bat handling" or much hitting and running. Especially in the top of the order. Pirtle would be good here with Hump 3rd.

Yeah- but the way you look at offense and the way our HC looks at offense are two different animals. Detz is the perfect 2-hole hitter. He can bunt if needed, he has a great eye- will work counts for leadoff to run, he can hit-n-run, he will hit for average, etc. That's what you want out of your 2-hole guy

[Coach34]

Who u got 1-5

1. Robson/Vickerson
2. Detz
3. Pirtle
4. Rea
5. Garner
6. CT
7. Humphries
8. Hendo/Armstrong
9. 2nd baseman/SS (whichever position Pirtle isnt playing)

Thats the way I'd start the season

[Todd4State]

And I think #2 needs to be similar to cleanup but the lesser power of the 2. Not a big believer in "bat handling" or much hitting and running. Especially in the top of the order. Pirtle would be good here with Hump 3rd.

Why? All you're doing is making it easier on the other team to attack your hitter, and thus easier to get your hitter out. One of the big things on Moneyball was total bases- you can get those from hits, walks- but you can also get bases from stealing bases and doing things to put yourself at an advantage by taking an extra base and getting the defense out of position- which makes it easier on your hitter.

Now again- this is assuming you have guys that can steal bases and are good at hitting and running. If you're telling them to not use that skill that they have- you're making them less valuable to you. To me, that's like asking Mark McGwire to bunt a bunch of times in 1998.

And I know I've hammered this point home- but your offensive style is dictated by what your players can do. If they can't do that kind of stuff- you don't ask them to do it.

[State82]

I know that regardless of who we throw out there, I won't question a lineup this year like I did last year. I was way off on Pirtle, and I could end up being as far off on Armstrong by all accounts. I'm just pumped that we have tons of bad ass options and a bad ass Coach to get them experience and then get the best ones out there when it matters most.

When I think about football, I second guess damn near everything our coach does. When I think about baseball, I kick my feet up and smile.

Could not have said it better if I sat and thought about it all day. THIS all day.

[Todd4State]

And before anyone says it- yes, I know that the stat total bases doesn't include stolen bases. But to me- of you steal a base, that's still a "base". It's just a quirk I have.

[Coach34]

When I think about football, I second guess damn near everything our coach does. When I think about baseball, I kick my feet up and smile.

It was just two years ago many in our fanbase were still questioning Cohen

[Will James]

I think forcing a hitter to swing is stupid. Especially one with Detz's eye. Hit and runs look great when they work but that's not a lot and many many times you waste a productive at bat by dribbling a ball that you were forced to swing at. They make absolutely no sense to me. Detz gets on nearly half the time. He handles his bat just fine.

[messageboardsuperhero]

C- Garner. I usually say that guys don't win jobs in the fall- well, he is the exception.
1B- Rea
2B-Heck, Hann, Britton
3B- Detz and Humphries- I prefer Humphries.
SS- Pirtle
LF- Demarcus/Robson
CF- CT/Robson/Armstrong
RF- Vickerson/Humphries/Armstrong
DH- Detz/CT

Rotation- I think we are going to piggyback starters again.

Friday- Woodruff/Hudson
Saturday- Bracewell/Lindgren
Sunday- Fitts/Young

Or something like that.

I love the idea of us piggybacking starters. I was sort of on the fence about it for a while, but it just gives the opponent so much to think about. Throw as many different kinds of quality arms out there as you can, and make the other teams have to worry about anything and everything.

Just think about Lindgren or R. Mitchell getting two strikes on a righthander late in a game, and then bringing in either Gentry or Holder to throw their breaking ball. It would be absolutely unhitable. We've got a great combination of power arms and drop down guys with an absolute hammer at the back end of the bullpen, so let's just throw everybody at them.

This would also help keep our staff fresh at the end of the year.

[CadaverDawg]

It was just two years ago many in our fanbase were still questioning Cohen

Yep. I didn't waiver though. And I'm glad. I think that is why a little piece of me wants to see Hud here eventually. I feel like it could be our closest version of a football version of Cohen. Maybe, maybe not. Will be interesting to see if we ever get to find out. As long as we're winning I don't care.

[Todd4State]

I think forcing a hitter to swing is stupid. Especially one with Detz's eye. Hit and runs look great when they work but that's not a lot and many many times you waste a productive at bat by dribbling a ball that you were forced to swing at. They make absolutely no sense to me. Detz gets on nearly half the time. He handles his bat just fine.

Nothing is foolproof in baseball. As far as hit and running- that's why they always say "2-1 is a good count to hit and run on"- because you want to get a fastball. I think the key if you are an aggressive team is to vary the counts that you hit and run on so that teams don't start calling pitch outs automatically if the count gets to 2-1.

But that's the whole point in having a guy that can handle the bat with two strikes- in case it doesn't work like it's planned- you still have a guy that has a good chance of getting on or getting a hit.

I think there are a lot more good things that can happen in a hit and than bad- it keeps you out of a double play, it gets the defense out of position, if you swing and miss you may get catchers interference or you can screen off the catcher with the swing making it even more difficult to throw the runner out.

But the most important thing to me is to force the other team to think about it. Any pitcher will tell you that they want to focus in on the hitter- and if you can distract them by making them think that you may do something- even if nothing is on- it's to your advantage.

And again- you have to remember you are dealing with amateur players here. That's why teams like UCLA, Vanderbilt, Central Arkansas are a royal pain in the ass to play even though some of those teams have very marginal hitters for the most part. They basically get a 2-3 really good pitchers that can shut you down and then make you make a mistake and manufacture a couple of cheap runs and win. But if you have that but add a power dimension to that like Cohen is doing- now that bloop hit or seeing eye single may become a home run because we have power hitters that those teams just don't have.

The best way to shut that type of a team down is to do what Bracewell and Girodo did to Central Arkansas in the regional- get a power arm and strike out a bunch of their hitters. That negates their speed and puts the pressure on them.

[CadaverDawg]

C- Garner. I usually say that guys don't win jobs in the fall- well, he is the exception.
1B- Rea
2B-Heck, Hann, Britton
3B- Detz and Humphries- I prefer Humphries.
SS- Pirtle
LF- Demarcus/Robson
CF- CT/Robson/Armstrong
RF- Vickerson/Humphries/Armstrong
DH- Detz/CT

Rotation- I think we are going to piggyback starters again.

Friday- Woodruff/Hudson
Saturday- Bracewell/Lindgren
Sunday- Fitts/Young

Or something like that.

Love that rotation, Todd. And that isn't even mentioning the names Ross Mitchell, Holder, Gentry, Cox, and more. If year young'uns can contribute on the mound in year one, this staff will be so deep we could throw 12 pitchers per weekend and never skip a beat. Hopefully we find a few sure enough elite arms in this young group that can at least give us one dominant Friday guy though. I would love to see that eventually. A Stratton type.

[Bothrops]

Detz is a tough out and I like him in the 2nd spot

[Todd4State]

I love the idea of us piggybacking starters. I was sort of on the fence about it for a while, but it just gives the opponent so much to think about. Throw as many different kinds of quality arms out there as you can, and make the other teams have to worry about anything and everything.

Just think about Lindgren or R. Mitchell getting two strikes on a righthander late in a game, and then bringing in either Gentry or Holder to throw their breaking ball. It would be absolutely unhitable. We've got a great combination of power arms and drop down guys with an absolute hammer at the back end of the bullpen, so let's just throw everybody at them.

This would also help keep our staff fresh at the end of the year.

It's different- but I like it too. You're right about it keeping our staff fresh. I think it helps with recruiting because there's no need for us to throw a guy 150 pitches every time- we have people that can cover. It allows more people- including freshmen a chance to start and it also gives them experience coming out of the bullpen.

Conceivably- we could have Woodruff start who is a right hander with about a 91-92 MPH fastball and a good breaking ball, and then after three innings we bring in Lindgren who is a left hand hitter throwing in the mid 90's with a power sinker, and then we go to someone like Cox or Gentry dropping down and then going over the top at times, and then God is gonna cut you down in the 9th inning.

It forces the other coach to make a decision about his starting lineup- you can't set your lineup up for a left of right handed pitcher and if you do, you either have to stay with bad match-ups or mass sub in your bench players in the fourth inning. Neither one is a good option for the other team. All it does is force us to have better match-ups.

[Todd4State]

It was just two years ago many in our fanbase were still questioning Cohen

I'm not surprised that we followed a similar pattern as Kentucky under Cohen. They struggled in years one and two- and then they started to win and win big.

It was just a tough transition for everyone.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I'm not surprised that we followed a similar pattern as Kentucky under Cohen. They struggled in years one and two- and then they started to win and win big.

It was just a tough transition for everyone.

And Polk screaming from rooftops and telling people to stop supporting the program sure as hell didn't help.

[cbrunt29]

Little of both. My bad

[cbrunt29]

Are you confusing Hann and Robson? Or do you just have no clue what you're talking about


Little of both. My bad

[TrueMaroon]

Little of both. My bad

No worries. Good topic to bring up during an off week of football considering we just kicked off baseball's fall ball.

Is there any debate as to this being the deepest we've ever been? I know the top end talent during the 80s was phenomenal, but top-to-bottom, is this the best we've ever been?

[cbrunt29]

Is there any debate as to this being the deepest we've ever been? I know the top end talent during the 80s was phenomenal, but top-to-bottom, is this the best we've ever been?

From what I can tell we have plenty of depth. Lots of young talent. I don't know if this is the best we've ever been, but I think Cohen has plenty of options to choose from.

[Homedawg]

And Polk screaming from rooftops and telling people to stop supporting the program sure as hell didn't help.

What's sad is he's basically still doing it. He has a hatred for Jc. Its disgusting really.

[Homedawg]

No worries. Good topic to bring up during an off week of football considering we just kicked off baseball's fall ball.

Is there any debate as to this being the deepest we've ever been? I know the top end talent during the 80s was phenomenal, but top-to-bottom, is this the best we've ever been?

Yes. Top to bottom no doubt. The 89 team was the best offensively 1-12 we will ever have. However, the pitching past bobby Reed and Pete from the pen wasnt great and not deep.