If you are AD, what do you do today and at the end of the year?

[Tbonewannabe]

Do you give Moorhead an ultimatum, bowl game or bust? Is getting the Egg Bowl a must win game?

Knowing next year is a down cycle year with LSU and Bama at home which means it is harder to win 8 games, does Joe have to win 8 next year with us losing some guys to the NFL?

Do you already put out feelers and get someone like Neal Brown lined up in case we end up 5-7?


There seems to be zero big time programs looking at changing at this current time also. Last year was a horrible time to look for a coach even though we got a great one on paper.

[dawgday166]

Good question and I ain't got a clue really. I'd probably be conveying to Joe that as an OC, the point and yardage totals are exceedingly underwhelming with the personnel we have back from last year's offense, with all the experienced Srs and Jrs on it. I can see taking a small step back but hell, we went halfway around the globe backwards.

[Quaoarsking]

Where did this $0 buyout myth come from, and why do people keep posting it when it gets refuted every time?

At any rate, if I were Cohen I'd tell Moorhead we better see some offensive improvement if he still wants to work here in 2020.

[Cooterpoot]

Not much Cohen can do. He’s stuck with this hire for now.

[Tbonewannabe]

Where did this $0 buyout myth come from, and why do people keep posting it when it gets refuted every time?

At any rate, if I were Cohen I'd tell Moorhead we better see some offensive improvement if he still wants to work here in 2020.

Wasn't it in USA today? Maybe I missed it being refuted. What is the actual buyout number then?

[Homedawg]

Do you give Moorhead an ultimatum, bowl game or bust? Is getting the Egg Bowl a must win game?

Knowing next year is a down cycle year with LSU and Bama at home which means it is harder to win 8 games, does Joe have to win 8 next year with us losing some guys to the NFL?

Do you already put out feelers and get someone like Neal Brown lined up in case we end up 5-7?

The zero $ buyout is extremely interesting since it doesn't cost anything unlike Auburn.

There seems to be zero big time programs looking at changing at this current time also. Last year was a horrible time to look for a coach even though we got a great one on paper.

Please stop w this he has no buyout. That's wrong. If we fire him, we owe him money. That rumor has run it's and incorrect

[Coursesuper]

Cohen is latched to Moorhead , Cohen will have a hard time admitting that he made a mistake and will deflect as long as he can. Any push will come from outside the AD thru other channels and the President will force the AD's hand. As far as ultimatums that bullshit you hire them or fire them and the only way anything happens this year is if this team tanks and they miss a bowl. Then its all hands on deck. I would be very surprised if agents have already been spoken to, to gauge interest buts that as far as it goes right now.

[Dawg61]

Really wish the Neal Brown obsession would leave this board. Dude lost to LIBERTY.

[Anonymous]

Do you give Moorhead an ultimatum, bowl game or bust? Is getting the Egg Bowl a must win game?

Knowing next year is a down cycle year with LSU and Bama at home which means it is harder to win 8 games, does Joe have to win 8 next year with us losing some guys to the NFL?

Do you already put out feelers and get someone like Neal Brown lined up in case we end up 5-7?


There seems to be zero big time programs looking at changing at this current time also. Last year was a horrible time to look for a coach even though we got a great one on paper.

If we let him go after year 1 you might as well light the stadium on fire.

There is legitimately nothing that could be more damaging to our Athletic Department.

Also, I'm not sure it's possible to miss a bowl game. We could line up and run the ball every snap and roll Ole Miss. People underestimate just how horrible their defense is.

[dawgday166]

If we let him go after year 1 you might as well light the stadium on fire.

There is legitimately nothing that could be more damaging to our Athletic Department.

Also, I'm not sure it's possible to miss a bowl game. We could line up and run the ball every snap and roll Ole Miss. People underestimate just how horrible their defense is.

Don't overestimate how good our offense is *****

[Mobile Bay]

Where did this $0 buyout myth come from, and why do people keep posting it when it gets refuted every time?

At any rate, if I were Cohen I'd tell Moorhead we better see some offensive improvement if he still wants to work here in 2020.

I guess it's because I have not actually seen a buyout number. I also have not seen the refutation of zero dollars. Can you please point me to what I missed?

[Tbonewannabe]

If we let him go after year 1 you might as well light the stadium on fire.

There is legitimately nothing that could be more damaging to our Athletic Department.

Also, I'm not sure it's possible to miss a bowl game. We could line up and run the ball every snap and roll Ole Miss. People underestimate just how horrible their defense is.

I told my wife, we could probably run the Wildcat with Kylin and Aeris in the backfield and win 3 more games never throwing a pass unless a WR was left uncovered.

[Tbonewannabe]

I guess it's because I have not actually seen a buyout number. I also have not seen the refutation of zero dollars. Can you please point me to what I missed?

I missed it also. All I heard was it being reported for $0 in a USA Today article.

[HoopsDawg]

Right now? Nothing. You have to let the season play out.

5-7, 6-6 I would fire him. I would go hire Bill Clark for 2.3 million and give him a nice budget for his staff. I would be fine keeping the entire defensive staff if Bill agreed but the whole offensive staff except for Hud would have to be let go.

7-5 or better and you have no choice but to keep him for 1 more year.

[Coursesuper]

Right now? Nothing. You have to let the season play out.

5-7, 6-6 I would fire him. I would go hire Bill Clark for 2.3 million and give him a nice budget for his staff. I would be fine keeping the entire defensive staff if Bill agreed but the whole offensive staff except for Hud would have to be let go.

7-5 or better and you have no choice but to keep him for 1 more year.

Spot on, I was disappointed Bill Clark wasn't in the mix last time. The guy can get it done.

[Tbonewannabe]

Right now? Nothing. You have to let the season play out.

5-7, 6-6 I would fire him. I would go hire Bill Clark for 2.3 million and give him a nice budget for his staff. I would be fine keeping the entire defensive staff if Bill agreed but the whole offensive staff except for Hud would have to be let go.

7-5 or better and you have no choice but to keep him for 1 more year.

Does he run the spread similar to Dan or is it a different offense?

[Bodaski]

Do you give Moorhead an ultimatum, bowl game or bust? Is getting the Egg Bowl a must win game?

Knowing next year is a down cycle year with LSU and Bama at home which means it is harder to win 8 games, does Joe have to win 8 next year with us losing some guys to the NFL?

Do you already put out feelers and get someone like Neal Brown lined up in case we end up 5-7?


There seems to be zero big time programs looking at changing at this current time also. Last year was a horrible time to look for a coach even though we got a great one on paper.

I sit down with Joe and ask him what can I do as your boss/AD to give you all that you need to be successful. I would tell him he's still "my man" to lead this program. If he feels like he may have made a mistake on any hires I would let him know I'll be in his corner. The guy needs to have success on the field, but he needs us to at least give him a chance. I remember Croom beat Nick Saban too. That seems to have worked out pretty good don't you think. All the bull crap about firing JM is ridiculous. The guy needs our support and a chance to redeem himself. We are better than that I would hope. Thank goodness some of our fans are perfect in what you do and never make a mistake. I wasn't perfect and made mistakes but thank goodness others believed in me and stayed the course.

[Dawgology]

If we score under 10 against Tamu while only giving KT a couple series and giving our rbs a combined 10 carries then I make Hud OC immediately or interim coach until seasons end. Probably make him HC at end of year and bring back Knox.

Anyone saying coaches would be scared of the MSU job if we let JoMo go is a dumbass. Thats a pure loser mentality.

[Tbonewannabe]

I sit down with Joe and ask him what can I do as your boss/AD to give you all that you need to be successful. I would tell him he's still "my man" to lead this program. If he feels like he may have made a mistake on any hires I would let him know I'll be in his corner. The guy needs to have success on the field, but he needs us to at least give him a chance. I remember Croom beat Nick Saban too. That seems to have worked out pretty good don't you think. All the bull crap about firing JM is ridiculous. The guy needs our support and a chance to redeem himself. We are better than that I would hope. Thank goodness some of our fans are perfect in what you do and never make a mistake. I wasn't perfect and made mistakes but thank goodness others believed in me and stayed the course.

I think we have to let the season play out. We still have a chance at 8-9 wins which would be equal to Dan's 2nd best season. Joe seems to be getting zero slack I think from the fear of Croom level offense. If we were close to the same offense as last year but with the same record then people would be a lot more calm.

[dawgoneyall]

Lose to the sharks and he should be gone.

[DawgFromOxford]

We still have a chance at 8-9 wins

Call me crazy but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say we don't get 9 wins. If I'm AD I let Joe know he's not getting fired at the end of the year, but that the product on the field is unacceptable. He doesn't get fired this year, but he's on the hot seat starting day 1 of next season if he doesn't get things turned around in the final half of this season.

[fader2103]

Really wish the Neal Brown obsession would leave this board. Dude lost to LIBERTY.

So you want Liberty's head guy?

[Pit Bull]

Do you give Moorhead an ultimatum, bowl game or bust? Is getting the Egg Bowl a must win game?

Knowing next year is a down cycle year with LSU and Bama at home which means it is harder to win 8 games, does Joe have to win 8 next year with us losing some guys to the NFL?

Do you already put out feelers and get someone like Neal Brown lined up in case we end up 5-7?


There seems to be zero big time programs looking at changing at this current time also. Last year was a horrible time to look for a coach even though we got a great one on paper.

Nothing.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I would do nothing other than let it be known this is not our "culture". I am still a believer that everyone on here is going a bit overboard on this stuff. Moorhead will get it adjusted. Moorheads offense when understood will work. Moorheads scheme is not the issue. Grasping and executing the scheme with talent is. Moorhead will figure it out with time. Sucks it hasn't already been bought into, but sometimes this takes time. Having the entire week off prior to LSU should have helped get back to basics, but it was squandered apparently. Seems like our team is still 4 games away from it clicking, but I have faith it will.

[Tbonewannabe]

Call me crazy but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say we don't get 9 wins. If I'm AD I let Joe know he's not getting fired at the end of the year, but that the product on the field is unacceptable. He doesn't get fired this year, but he's on the hot seat starting day 1 of next season if he doesn't get things turned around in the final half of this season.

I think of the Bama game similar to Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber, there is less than 1% of a chance So there is a chance. 8 wins is still pretty much on the table and 7 has a good shot of happening. 8 would still be tied with Mullen's 2nd best record only to the 2014 which is one of our best ever.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Go to the sideline and start calling the offensive plays. Have him sit by the water cooler and watch until he is so emasculated he quits.

[shannondawg]

I's be nice and just tell good coaches adapt to the players he has until he get the players he wants.

[BHildreth3]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but how in the hell can we fire a coach after 1 year? What message does that send to other coaches? We have to give him at least 2, but no more.

[Leroy Jenkins]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but how in the hell can we fire a coach after 1 year? What message does that send to other coaches? We have to give him at least 2, but no more.

People making millions don't usually need "messages" they understand expectations.

[HoopsDawg]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but how in the hell can we fire a coach after 1 year? What message does that send to other coaches? We have to give him at least 2, but no more.

Would you have given Peter Sirmon 2 years? Why should there be a difference for head coaches? I'll admit that it would be rare but rarely do new coaches walk into such a good situation.

[Really Clark?]

Would you have given Peter Sirmon 2 years? Why should there be a difference for head coaches? I'll admit that it would be rare but rarely do new coaches walk into such a good situation.

Yeah not as many examples of a winning team and a coaching change from outside that system because coach left in P5. I guess Ron Zook got 3 years so we have that to look forward to.*** Miles was a positive transition. Smart dropped some, 2 game swing with 2 one point loses, but the scoring numbers on both sides of the ball were not close to this drastic either, like our offense. Lane Kiffin for Pete Carroll - blah, but sanctions were a huge part of that. Fuentes at VT kind of a struggle this year but positive his first 2 years. Bobby P has been a drop from Charlie Strong.

[DownwardDawg]

If we let him go after year 1 you might as well light the stadium on fire.

There is legitimately nothing that could be more damaging to our Athletic Department.

Also, I'm not sure it's possible to miss a bowl game. We could line up and run the ball every snap and roll Ole Miss. People underestimate just how horrible their defense is.

Dude, we would be undefeated right now if we would do that. Problem is, we will throw 30 passes against them and they will beat our ass.

[Cowbell]

I would sit him down and let him talk about what he thinks is causing the problems. I would then handle him based 100% on how he answers those questions. If he understands the problem and presents a viable solution, he gets to stay. Otherwise, he better win some big games down the stretch.

[Political Hack]

Today you tell your coach good luck and at the end of the year you make a hard decision.

[Dawgology]

I haven't read this entire thread yet, but how in the hell can we fire a coach after 1 year? What message does that send to other coaches? We have to give him at least 2, but no more.

It doesn’t send any message to the good coaches but the bad ones will probably stay away. We fans aren’t the only ones to notice an egregious misuse of our talents...a lot of good coaches have noticed this also.

[msbulldog]

I sit down with Joe and ask him what can I do as your boss/AD to give you all that you need to be successful. I would tell him he's still "my man" to lead this program. If he feels like he may have made a mistake on any hires I would let him know I'll be in his corner. The guy needs to have success on the field, but he needs us to at least give him a chance. I remember Croom beat Nick Saban too. That seems to have worked out pretty good don't you think. All the bull crap about firing JM is ridiculous. The guy needs our support and a chance to redeem himself. We are better than that I would hope. Thank goodness some of our fans are perfect in what you do and never make a mistake. I wasn't perfect and made mistakes but thank goodness others believed in me and stayed the course.

Amen Bodaski! Hope you're well! You now how this board is fire 'em at first issue. They don't realize how many families this impacts. People lose their livelihood, they have to move, if they are lucky enough to find another job. Children are jerked out of schools, losing friends thy may never see again.
Also, how incompetent do we look hiring and firing a man after 1 year, that's comparable to the University of Tennessee, the laughing stock of the SEC. Let's all get behind this man and this program and support it like we should as alums and fans need to do!

[dawgs]

Barring off-field scandal, there's simply no way we can fire a HC after 1 season. We'd be a toxic program for any up and coming coach.

[Cowbell]

You guys saying that we will become a toxic program if we fire moorehead are wearing blinders. If we fire him, it is because this dumpster-fire gets out of control. The next coach will face much lower expectations than what Moorehead inherited. They will automatically get more time to prove themselves and so it will make a much better scenario for a young coach wanting to build his own program. In business, you buy stock when there’s blood on the floor.

[Dawgfan77]

Like I have posted before. We had a lot of interest in the job. Cohn was mystified by joe in the interview and made the hire. It was an awkward hire day one. Now here is an important fact so pay attention to those who A think we can?t fire him after one year and B those think we can?t attract another guy. Coaches knew the talent we had returning and coaches know what a shitty job joe has done. We will however have to probably offer a 4 year contract guaranteed with a substantial buyout. I?m ok with that because I?m of the opinion the next guy we hire will be the right guy.

[ShotgunDawg]

Like I have posted before. We had a lot of interest in the job. Cohn was mystified by joe in the interview and made the hire. It was an awkward hire day one. Now here is an important fact so pay attention to those who A think we can?t fire him after one year and B those think we can?t attract another guy. Coaches knew the talent we had returning and coaches know what a shitty job joe has done. We will however have to probably offer a 4 year contract guaranteed with a substantial buyout. I?m ok with that because I?m of the opinion the next guy we hire will be the right guy.

Why do you think the next hire will be the right one?

If not Moorhead, who should Cohen have hired?

[Dawgfan77]

Why do you think the next hire will be the right one?

If not Moorhead, who should Cohen have hired?

A few reasons. I don?t think Cohn gets the final say ala Lofers with Howland. So the process will be done much different.
Your second question was who should we have hired. Bill Clark would have been a good choice, Seth Litrell or Neal Brown. I stand by my opinion that we needed a Proven HC with the team we had returning and the program we had established

[Dawgfan77]

Let me point out another thing that does t get talked about much. At Penn State the commitment to the run with Barkley helped the offense tremendously it also opened up the pass. Franklin was an OC at Maryland and gameplaned with the offense staff at PSU, don?t think for a minute that slowmo didn?t get overruled when he wanted to have a game plan to pass or a play call to pass a few times a game. We have no one here that?s going to challenge the call against slowmo

[dawgday166]

Like I have posted before. We had a lot of interest in the job. Cohn was mystified by joe in the interview and made the hire. It was an awkward hire day one. Now here is an important fact so pay attention to those who A think we can?t fire him after one year and B those think we can?t attract another guy. Coaches knew the talent we had returning and coaches know what a shitty job joe has done. We will however have to probably offer a 4 year contract guaranteed with a substantial buyout. I?m ok with that because I?m of the opinion the next guy we hire will be the right guy.

What does this awkward hire day one mean? From everything I read leading up to the season, everything was peaches and cream, Joe was well liked and everything in the football offices was more pleasant since Dan left & Joe got hired, etc.

[Doggie_Style]

What does this awkward hire day one mean? From everything I read leading up to the season, everything was peaches and cream, Joe was well liked and everything in the football offices was more pleasant since Dan left & Joe got hired, etc.

I thought he looked like a fish out of water from the time he got off the plane and rung a bell....and then started spewing that crap about ring sizes and trophys....it was comical

[ShotgunDawg]

A few reasons. I don?t think Cohn gets the final say ala Lofers with Howland. So the process will be done much different.
Your second question was who should we have hired. Bill Clark would have been a good choice, Seth Litrell or Neal Brown. I stand by my opinion that we needed a Proven HC with the team we had returning and the program we had established

So you're ready to take the decision out of Cohen's hands and give it to some one who has never made that type of hire?

Why? That's seems pretty arrogant.

You think our fan base would've accepted Bill Clark to follow Mullen?

[ShotgunDawg]

I thought he looked like a fish out of water from the time he got off the plane and rung a bell....and then started spewing that crap about ring sizes and trophys....it was comical

So, we shouldn't have hired him because you thought he looked like a fish out of water? Lol. Way to break it down there.

Did you ever meet Mullen when he first got to MSU? He sounded like an introverted weirdo.

[Dawgfan77]

So you're ready to take the decision out of Cohen's hands and give it to some one who has never made that type of hire?

Why? That's seems pretty arrogant.

You think our fan base would've accepted Bill Clark to follow Mullen?
I appreciate your blind faith in Moorhead but I prefer to look at on the field results and not blind faith. . He looks lost and unorganized. Not a good quality to have at a HC in the SEC. This so called offense is preforming at historically low production and he has refused to adapt. Yet another strike against him. His play calling has no ryme or reason and SEC defense are using BASIC stuff to stop us. A third strike against this genius. He makes no in game or half time adjustments be blatantly refused to change. He and the staff don?t go out and recruit Friday nights while other SEC coaches do. Yep another strike No matter a change in QB or personal is going to change any of the above mentioned. The offense is not going to work and he has proven in 7 games he is willing to lose his way than try and win another way.
I?m not sure what anyone on here sees that says give him time. This was a bad hire. The sooner we end this the better the program will be
I m open to a discussion if you can show me examples of how he is running this program to be successful. Before you go all well look at AU game, I did give him kiddos for that. Then with two weeks to build off of that he goes right back to the UK and UF game plan.

So let?s hear it. What has he done to say yep we are in the right track

[Coursesuper]

So you're ready to take the decision out of Cohen's hands and give it to some one who has never made that type of hire?

Why? That's seems pretty arrogant.

You think our fan base would've accepted Bill Clark to follow Mullen?

Cohen didn?t have a lot of guidance on the football hire this time, but I will bet that when the next one comes, if he?s still the AD, he will be doing as he is told. And yes I think our fan base would have welcomed Bill Clark with open arms, he?s much more polished than the Pruitt at TN.

As far as taking the hiring of a P5 football coach away from the AD, I?d say it the norm that the AD with guidance from President, Board members and very influential alumni is how it?s handled.

And all loafers had to do with the Howland hire was to stand there and smile at the pc, the rest was done by prez and 1 alumni.

[ShotgunDawg]

I appreciate your blind faith in Moorhead but I prefer to look at on the field results and not blind faith. . He looks lost and unorganized. Not a good quality to have at a HC in the SEC. This so called offense is preforming at historically low production and he has refused to adapt. Yet another strike against him. His play calling has no ryme or reason and SEC defense are using BASIC stuff to stop us. A third strike against this genius. He makes no in game or half time adjustments be blatantly refused to change. He and the staff don?t go out and recruit Friday nights while other SEC coaches do. Yep another strike No matter a change in QB or personal is going to change any of the above mentioned. The offense is not going to work and he has proven in 7 games he is willing to lose his way than try and win another way.
I?m not sure what anyone on here sees that says give him time. This was a bad hire. The sooner we end this the better the program will be
I m open to a discussion if you can show me examples of how he is running this program to be successful. Before you go all well look at AU game, I did give him kiddos for that. Then with two weeks to build off of that he goes right back to the UK and UF game plan.

So let?s hear it. What has he done to say yep we are in the right track

FWIW, I'm not defending Moorhead. He has sucked.

What I'm fighting against is dumbassery by our boosters to assume that Cohen can't make the next hire when he's the one with experience in the doing so. What you're suggesting is an illogical process but one that I have no doubt arrogant, ego centric boosters will take.

[dawgday166]

FWIW, I'm not defending Moorhead. He has sucked.

What I'm fighting against is dumbassery by our boosters to assume that Cohen can't make the next hire when he's the one with experience in the doing so. What you're suggesting is an illogical process but one that I have no doubt arrogant, ego centric boosters will take.

Where's this Cohen's experience? I believe he has made 3 hires so far: Cann, Moorhead, and Lemonis. If Moorhead is a dud, then Cohen will only be batting .333 if Lemonis works out. In his defense tho, what happened with Cann could've happened to practically any athletic dept.

2 of those are also baseball hires which is something Cohen should know about, not football hires.

[ShotgunDawg]

Where's this Cohen's experience? I believe he has made 3 hires so far: Cann, Moorhead, and Lemonis. If Moorhead is a dud, then Cohen will only be batting .333 if Lemonis works out. In his defense tho, what happened with Cann could've happened to practically any athletic dept.

2 of those are also baseball hires which is something Cohen should know about, not football hires.

He made a football hire. That's his experience.

If we need to make a football coaching change, if I'm Keenum, I bring Cohen in and ask him what he learned from the Moorhead hire and how he would apply that to the next hire.

His responses would determine if he got to make the next hire.

What I wouldn't want to hear is excuses for Moorhead or saying it's bad luck.

What I would want to hear is about the process and why Moorhead hasn't been successful

[HoopsDawg]

Let me point out another thing that does t get talked about much. At Penn State the commitment to the run with Barkley helped the offense tremendously it also opened up the pass. Franklin was an OC at Maryland and gameplaned with the offense staff at PSU, don?t think for a minute that slowmo didn?t get overruled when he wanted to have a game plan to pass or a play call to pass a few times a game. We have no one here that?s going to challenge the call against slowmo

Good point. Here's another one: Croom looked competent as an NFL OC with Barry Sanders. Saquon Barkley is a generational back. He can make anyone look good.

[Coursesuper]

FWIW, I'm not defending Moorhead. He has sucked.

What I'm fighting against is dumbassery by our boosters to assume that Cohen can't make the next hire when he's the one with experience in the doing so. What you're suggesting is an illogical process but one that I have no doubt arrogant, ego centric boosters will take.

Since we have an arrogant egocentric AD then this should go well then. Your AD was shoved down our throats by a bunch of self serving egocentric alumni to begin with and now we're stuck with him.

[Dawgfan77]

Letting this guy continue to run out program in the ground would be the most dumbassery thing. I?m gonna say this again. The offense won?t work here. And those clamoring for a change at QB it?s still going to be the same offense and same result.
I?m in the corner that 7 wins is our ceiling this year which is grossly underwhelming

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Really wish the Neal Brown obsession would leave this board. Dude lost to LIBERTY.

Right, and Meyer got blown out by Purdue, Fisher lost to BC last year, Mullen lost to South Alabama, and the Kang had several bad loses. Yeah Libery is worse than those, but Troy is also a lower level program too. Every coach will have bad loses at some point.

Brown is 27-7 in his last 3 seasons, with a 2-1 record vs the P5 (a 30-24 loss to CLEMSON as the only loss). He's 6-2 this year. Lets not forget the program was 5-7, 6-6, and 3-9 the 3 years before he got there; he had to build it to a 10 win team. He took a bad team, made them a 10-2 team, and knows how to get them to punch well above their weight. He's only 38 too.

I mean what else do you want that's obtainable? Any current HC we could get will have bad loses, and unproven OC's are a roll of the dice as we see now. Obviously Brown could be a dud, you never know. But he's got the best resume. Who do you want us to hire if Brown isn't the guy?

[HoopsDawg]

Really wish the Neal Brown obsession would leave this board. Dude lost to LIBERTY.

A simple take from a simple poster.