Over the years, folks have called themselves a REALIST

[gravedigger]

This label has usually followed a less than optimistic prediction of events (usually preseason about the amount of wins a team will have)

So I'm interested in those who feel they are a realist........Do you think that the university/AD/president will pull the plug on Moorhead at the end of this year?

If not, what if he goes 6-6 or 7-5 next year ? Will you honestly expect Cohen to fire him after year 2 in that case?

Bear in mind that I'm not asking what you WANT to happen. I'm asking based on what you think REALISTICALLY WILL happen and how long Moorhead will last if you believe that is mediocre progress or less than that?

I'm interested because hyperbole has become the norm in discourse around MSU message boards. Things are either so much better than many will accept or so much worse than many accept that sifting through it is pretty tough.

I'm firmly in the middle. That is to say that I'm dissapointed we havent performed better, but I think there is a reasonable explanation and the outlook is positivex

Anyway, I despise it. I dont want all sunshine pumping. Hell, that was what we had before the season and it seemed pretty crappy too. Some jackwagon was trying to tell everyone on the board we aught to be arrogant pricks because that is what winning fanbases do.

[Jack Lambert]

Is JWS the first Miss State first year head coach to go to a bowl game his first year? Got to give the guy a learning curve. The guy has made mistakes this season. I am pissed about it too. I kind of figured it was going to happen several months ago. I was hoping the feeling was wrong. Now I do not think he will be fired going 8-4 and 7-5 the next two seasons. We will have to be below 500. Now I am pretty optimistic guy and don't get too negative.

[99jc]

We are stuck with that dumbass for 2 years for certain. No way he does better next season. We will have a new coach by Dec next year.

[TrapGame]

The nail in the coffin could possible be our trip to Knoxville next season. The second place coach could punch us in the mouth and steal our manhood. That's gonna sting.

Realistically he gets next year. And if we aren't starting to click on offense next year I doubt we win 7 games. Joe may be told this time next year to start looking elsewhere b/c we are.

[BrunswickDawg]

Is JWS the first Miss State first year head coach to go to a bowl game his first year? Got to give the guy a learning curve. The guy has made mistakes this season. I am pissed about it too. I kind of figured it was going to happen several months ago. I was hoping the feeling was wrong. Now I do not think he will be fired going 8-4 and 7-5 the next two seasons. We will have to be below 500. Now I am pretty optimistic guy and don't get too negative.

Realistically for MSU, 6-6 in any season should get any coaches seat warm with today's scheduling. Anything less than 6-6 puts you on the burner that following season. Improve or else. 6-6 back to back may buy a 3rd. 6-6 followed by anything less gets you fired. 4 wins or less in any season should get you fired - unless you have had multiple injuries to several key contributors or some other major extenuating circumstances. Realistically, the SEC has elevated our resources to this being solid expectations - but has not elevated us significantly within the overall pecking order of the SEC. We will always struggle from season to season in the SEC because it is the SEC - and we are near the bottom in the SEC in resources. I would feel very differently about this if we were the only P5 school in the state.

I say all of this because with the way we have a schedule structured thru 2025 you have 3 auto wins. The P5 game could swing on home vs. away (although no one on our current P5 list scares me). That means in any given year you need 2-3 SEC wins out of Kentucky, Rotating East, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Auburn, Texas A&M - all teams we have performed reasonably well against since the SEC went to divisions. With that set up, it isn't a tall order to get to 6 wins and a bowl. That should be a realistic baseline expectation for all seasons.

That being said, 6-6 followed by 7-5, I think you have to look at overall performance from year to year. Are we advancing in our performance relative to others? Is recruiting the same, better or worse? Are we competitive in more games or less - even in losses? Or was it purely the way the schedule and our opponents aligned?

[Dildoes]

Joe has the job pretty well locked down for the next 3-4 years so long as the wheels don’t come completely off. Meaning at least making a bowl each year. The one potential wrinkle to this would be if he never beats OM. That could potentially end things early.

Beyond that it’s hard to predict. Historically speaking, a bowl every year would be pretty good, but if that’s the outlook at year 4 and nothing more, then we’ll learn a lot about our AD’s desire for actual improvement.

[99jc]

Joe has the job pretty well locked down for the next 3-4 years so long as the wheels don?t come completely off. Meaning at least making a bowl each year. The one potential wrinkle to this would be if he never beats OM. That could potentially end things early.

Beyond that it?s hard to predict. Historically speaking, a bowl every year would be pretty good, but if that?s the outlook at year 4 and nothing more, then we?ll learn a lot about our AD?s desire for actual improvement.

your a troll and a dumbass.

[Dawgology]

I feel if he only wins 5 this season (or less) OR if he loses the Egg Bowl he will probably be gone this year. In fact, I've heard from the only good source that I have that if he drops the Egg Bowl he gone (unless he beats Bama and we end with 8 wins).

Barring that and we finish 7-5 (Which I think we will) he will be back. Next year he will not have a winning season. He just won't. The defense will be not as talented and he may be trying to start a true freshman. I see a 5-7 season (6-6 at best). If we limp out of this year at 6-6 (7-5) and then follow it up with a losing season he will be gone.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Realistically for MSU, 6-6 in any season should get any coaches seat warm with today's scheduling. Anything less than 6-6 puts you on the burner that following season. Improve or else. 6-6 back to back may buy a 3rd. 6-6 followed by anything less gets you fired. 4 wins or less in any season should get you fired - unless you have had multiple injuries to several key contributors or some other major extenuating circumstances. Realistically, the SEC has elevated our resources to this being solid expectations - but has not elevated us significantly within the overall pecking order of the SEC. We will always struggle from season to season in the SEC because it is the SEC - and we are near the bottom in the SEC in resources. I would feel very differently about this if we were the only P5 school in the state.

I say all of this because with the way we have a schedule structured thru 2025 you have 3 auto wins. The P5 game could swing on home vs. away (although no one on our current P5 list scares me). That means in any given year you need 2-3 SEC wins out of Kentucky, Rotating East, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Auburn, Texas A&M - all teams we have performed reasonably well against since the SEC went to divisions. With that set up, it isn't a tall order to get to 6 wins and a bowl. That should be a realistic baseline expectation for all seasons.

That being said, 6-6 followed by 7-5, I think you have to look at overall performance from year to year. Are we advancing in our performance relative to others? Is recruiting the same, better or worse? Are we competitive in more games or less - even in losses? Or was it purely the way the schedule and our opponents aligned?

This in spades!

[AROB44]

I feel if he only wins 5 this season (or less) OR if he loses the Egg Bowl he will probably be gone this year. In fact, I've heard from the only good source that I have that if he drops the Egg Bowl he gone (unless he beats Bama and we end with 8 wins).

Barring that and we finish 7-5 (Which I think we will) he will be back. Next year he will not have a winning season. He just won't. The defense will be not as talented and he may be trying to start a true freshman. I see a 5-7 season (6-6 at best). If we limp out of this year at 6-6 (7-5) and then follow it up with a losing season he will be gone.


I just don't think this will happen. I really see no way he gets fired after 1 year unless we don't win another game. I really believe that next year will determine his fate.

[Bass Chaser]

I don't think he makes it to year 2 without going to a bowl.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I've said since the Florida game that unless we picked it up offensively the remainder of the year I fully expect Cohen and Moorhead will have a talk at the end of the year and it will end up with Moorhead turning over the play calling duties to Hud or Huff. Also wouldn't be surprised if Breiner isn't reassigned and we look at bringing back Brett Elliott.

[Todd4State]

Realistically for MSU, 6-6 in any season should get any coaches seat warm with today's scheduling. Anything less than 6-6 puts you on the burner that following season. Improve or else. 6-6 back to back may buy a 3rd. 6-6 followed by anything less gets you fired. 4 wins or less in any season should get you fired - unless you have had multiple injuries to several key contributors or some other major extenuating circumstances. Realistically, the SEC has elevated our resources to this being solid expectations - but has not elevated us significantly within the overall pecking order of the SEC. We will always struggle from season to season in the SEC because it is the SEC - and we are near the bottom in the SEC in resources. I would feel very differently about this if we were the only P5 school in the state.

I say all of this because with the way we have a schedule structured thru 2025 you have 3 auto wins. The P5 game could swing on home vs. away (although no one on our current P5 list scares me). That means in any given year you need 2-3 SEC wins out of Kentucky, Rotating East, Ole Miss, Arkansas, Auburn, Texas A&M - all teams we have performed reasonably well against since the SEC went to divisions. With that set up, it isn't a tall order to get to 6 wins and a bowl. That should be a realistic baseline expectation for all seasons.

That being said, 6-6 followed by 7-5, I think you have to look at overall performance from year to year. Are we advancing in our performance relative to others? Is recruiting the same, better or worse? Are we competitive in more games or less - even in losses? Or was it purely the way the schedule and our opponents aligned?


The thing is we gave Dan extensions after going 6-7.


I feel if he only wins 5 this season (or less) OR if he loses the Egg Bowl he will probably be gone this year. In fact, I've heard from the only good source that I have that if he drops the Egg Bowl he gone (unless he beats Bama and we end with 8 wins).

Barring that and we finish 7-5 (Which I think we will) he will be back. Next year he will not have a winning season. He just won't. The defense will be not as talented and he may be trying to start a true freshman. I see a 5-7 season (6-6 at best). If we limp out of this year at 6-6 (7-5) and then follow it up with a losing season he will be gone.

And on that note we didn't fire Dan after he basically blew the Egg Bowl three times in four years.

But to answer the question I think Joe gets this year and next. A lot of good coaches had less than stellar year ones- Saban, Kirby Smart, Orgeron, Stoops at UK are the current ones.

[gravedigger]

your a troll and a dumbass.

The irony of your post is tragically humorous. Unless I?m missing the meaning of troll.

[Cooterpoot]

If he doesn't win another game this year, he's gone. Otherwise, he's back. If he has winning seasons next couple of years, no issues either.

[Liverpooldawg]

This label has usually followed a less than optimistic prediction of events (usually preseason about the amount of wins a team will have)

So I'm interested in those who feel they are a realist........Do you think that the university/AD/president will pull the plug on Moorhead at the end of this year?

If not, what if he goes 6-6 or 7-5 next year ? Will you honestly expect Cohen to fire him after year 2 in that case?

Bear in mind that I'm not asking what you WANT to happen. I'm asking based on what you think REALISTICALLY WILL happen and how long Moorhead will last if you believe that is mediocre progress or less than that?

I'm interested because hyperbole has become the norm in discourse around MSU message boards. Things are either so much better than many will accept or so much worse than many accept that sifting through it is pretty tough.

I'm firmly in the middle. That is to say that I'm dissapointed we havent performed better, but I think there is a reasonable explanation and the outlook is positivex

Anyway, I despise it. I dont want all sunshine pumping. Hell, that was what we had before the season and it seemed pretty crappy too. Some jackwagon was trying to tell everyone on the board we aught to be arrogant pricks because that is what winning fanbases do.

If we fire him after one year we will pay for it for at least a decade or two, in multiple sports. Hopefully we aren't that stupid.

[TrapGame]

I've said since the Florida game that unless we picked it up offensively the remainder of the year I fully expect Cohen and Moorhead will have a talk at the end of the year and it will end up with Moorhead turning over the play calling duties to Hud or Huff. Also wouldn't be surprised if Breiner isn't reassigned and we look at bringing back Brett Elliott.

That's a bold take, but definitely something I could see happening.

[Really Clark?]

If we fire him after one year we will pay for it for at least a decade or two, in multiple sports. Hopefully we aren't that stupid.

That’s a pretty big stretch. Multiple sports for up to 2 decades? That’s out of line. Will it effect the next football hire? That’s possible and most likely if we fire a .500 or better coach after 1 season.

[Dawgology]

If we fire him after one year we will pay for it for at least a decade or two, in multiple sports. Hopefully we aren't that stupid.

I know of several who would take the job tomorrow if we fired him today and based on the outcomes so far would do MUCH better. If a coach is scared of high expectations then we probably don't want them in the first place.

[Political Hack]

I'm not always pessimistic but I do consider myself to root my opinions based on logic and analytical thought. Yes. It is possible he could be fired. You lose the locker room, you can't build a program. That happens and you don't have a choice. Have to cut bait and start over.

If we miss a bowl and lose to Ole Miss, which are both very possible IMO, I think we're looking at a real possibility that he's fired. In fact, it wouldn't shock me if he packs his crap and leaves on his on if things continue to spiral out of control. We've beaten no one with a pulse. LaTech might embarrass us at HC.

[BrunswickDawg]

The thing is we gave Dan extensions after going 6-7

We also didn't extend him after '15.

At that point though, Dan also had a body of work of 8 years - had a fairly strong recruiting class coming in, and ended the season with positive momentum. We also don't know if his contract had some sort of clause that triggered the extension.

[Liverpooldawg]

That?s a pretty big stretch. Multiple sports for up to 2 decades? That?s out of line. Will it effect the next football hire? That?s possible and most likely if we fire a .500 or better coach after 1 season.

It's not out of line or a stretch. Every coach works for the same people.

[Liverpooldawg]

I know of several who would take the job tomorrow if we fired him today and based on the outcomes so far would do MUCH better. If a coach is scared of high expectations then we probably don't want them in the first place.

Coaches are scared of two things, unrealistic expectations and not being allowed time to implement their system with their players. If we fire hm this year it won't tick the first box for some, but for most outside our circle it will. It will tick the second one hands down.

[Really Clark?]

It's not out of line or a stretch. Every coach works for the same people.

1 to 2 decades and multiple sports is completely unreasonable. Sorry Pool, I don?t get into it with you very often but that?s out there. If things have gotten that bad over the next 5-10 years, then we have also gone through AD?s as well.

I don?t doubt it would be an issue with the very next football hire but 2 decades, no that?s incorrect

[Dawgfan77]

It's not out of line or a stretch. Every coach works for the same people.
Let me tell you why this is false. One most coached were aware of the talent we had returning and two we can pay 4 MM if we had to.
Based on my sources joe aced the interview with Cohn but the reality is it?s it?s like the guy who interviews well but doesn?t back it up with results. Cohn got outsmarted
Moorhead was on no ones list. No one. So why did we hire him

[Cowbell]

If we fire him after one year we will pay for it for at least a decade or two, in multiple sports. Hopefully we aren't that stupid.

We are already paying for it...

[Pit Bull]

I feel if he only wins 5 this season (or less) OR if he loses the Egg Bowl he will probably be gone this year. In fact, I've heard from the only good source that I have that if he drops the Egg Bowl he gone (unless he beats Bama and we end with 8 wins).

Barring that and we finish 7-5 (Which I think we will) he will be back. Next year he will not have a winning season. He just won't. The defense will be not as talented and he may be trying to start a true freshman. I see a 5-7 season (6-6 at best). If we limp out of this year at 6-6 (7-5) and then follow it up with a losing season he will be gone.

Our damn luck would be to beat Auburn and Alabama and lose to all the other SEC teams.

[Liverpooldawg]

We are already paying for it...

For the hire I won't argue, compounding that with an early fire is a sure long term disaster.

[Liverpooldawg]

Our damn luck would be to beat Auburn and Alabama and lose to all the other SEC teams.

We ain't beating Bama.

[maroonmania]

Is JWS the first Miss State first year head coach to go to a bowl game his first year? Got to give the guy a learning curve. The guy has made mistakes this season. I am pissed about it too. I kind of figured it was going to happen several months ago. I was hoping the feeling was wrong. Now I do not think he will be fired going 8-4 and 7-5 the next two seasons. We will have to be below 500. Now I am pretty optimistic guy and don't get too negative.

If I'm being honest I got an eerily bad feeling about this season ever since I heard about the team making the water park trip. Maybe it shouldn't have made any difference but it just came across to me like the coaches were being very soft on the team for the first season in charge.

[BrunswickDawg]

If I'm being honest I got an eerily bad feeling about this season ever since I heard about the team making the water park trip. Maybe it shouldn't have made any difference but it just came across to me like the coaches were being very soft on the team for the first season in charge.
Mullen took them bowling, rented out movie theaters for exclusive movie nights, had them throwing hay bails, and gave us the marvelous image of Nick James riding a horse. And that's just the stuff we know about. Not to mention all the crazy junkets teams get to go to during bowl weeks. The water park thing is about the most overblown "let's look for something to criticize" thing there is.

[Liverpooldawg]

1 to 2 decades and multiple sports is completely unreasonable. Sorry Pool, I don?t get into it with you very often but that?s out there. If things have gotten that bad over the next 5-10 years, then we have also gone through AD?s as well.

I don?t doubt it would be an issue with the very next football hire but 2 decades, no that?s incorrect
Ok, you win. Evidence supports me though. Hopefully we don't have to worry about it.

[Really Clark?]

Ok, you win. Evidence supports me though. Hopefully we don't have to worry about it.

What evidence? You posted no evidence. I can’t think of that scenario ever happening resulting in 2 decades and multiple coaches

[Liverpooldawg]

If I'm being honest I got an eerily bad feeling about this season ever since I heard about the team making the water park trip. Maybe it shouldn't have made any difference but it just came across to me like the coaches were being very soft on the team for the first season in charge. I've been more worried since we got picked so high and there was so much pre-season wool. We ALWAYS suck under those conditions.

[Liverpooldawg]

What evidence? You posted no evidence. I can’t think of that scenario ever happening resulting in 2 decades and multiple coaches

At MSU? Jeez man you must be really young.

[Really Clark?]

At MSU? Jeez man you must be really young.

I’m pretty well versed in State history. We haven’t fired anyone in football after one year. If you are trying to go back further than 1980 then it would be irrelevant to today’s atmosphere. This would be completely different from McKeen, not only was it 70 years ago, but he was very successful. Sorry there is not any one firing that is close to this situation that lead to a 2 decade issue in multiple sports. A lot of our issues were from the AD’s office, I agree with that but the hiring and firing of coaches were symptoms of the problem, not the problem itself in many cases. I agree with you that the ones thinking it would not be issue to fire a coach after one year. Without a scandal or an implosion inside the program, yeah it will be an issue. Not 2 decades worth. Not close. The next hire only would be an issue. The only way we start having issues in multiple sports is if we start short firing multiple coaches as well.

[RougeDawg]

I feel if he only wins 5 this season (or less) OR if he loses the Egg Bowl he will probably be gone this year. In fact, I've heard from the only good source that I have that if he drops the Egg Bowl he gone (unless he beats Bama and we end with 8 wins).

Barring that and we finish 7-5 (Which I think we will) he will be back. Next year he will not have a winning season. He just won't. The defense will be not as talented and he may be trying to start a true freshman. I see a 5-7 season (6-6 at best). If we limp out of this year at 6-6 (7-5) and then follow it up with a losing season he will be gone.

Listen to this guy. My source said the wheels are in motion for a change this November if the offense remains putrid. This same source knew about Cannizzaro and Rick Ray firings before they were announced. You cannot be hired as an offensive guru and have this many putrid showings, and keep you job. I man just somewhat hopeful that those in charge follow through with their recent comments.

[Liverpooldawg]

Let me tell you why this is false. One most coached were aware of the talent we had returning and two we can pay 4 MM if we had to.
Based on my sources joe aced the interview with Cohn but the reality is it?s it?s like the guy who interviews well but doesn?t back it up with results. Cohn got outsmarted
Moorhead was on no ones list. No one. So why did we hire him

Yep, they were aware of what we had coming back, and Moorhead was on evwryone's list that cared to look. Mine incudeded. We did NOT have a great team coming back, we had a decent one, 8-4, maybe 9-3 aT best. Now we probabaly ain't making 8-4, but 7-5 is possible. If we don't win another one then get back to me. Otherwise you give the man time with his system. You do so especially since he is following a generational type coach at MSU,

[Cooterpoot]

Coaches are scared of two things, unrealistic expectations and not being allowed time to implement their system with their players. If we fire hm this year it won't tick the first box for some, but for most outside our circle it will. It will tick the second one hands down.

Yeah, when USM fired Ellis Johnson, they couldn?t hire anybody any good. Just a guy that got them back on track and is now a OC in the NFL. And that?s lowly USM who paid less than $1Mill a year. $5Mill fixes a lot of problems with a job.

[Todd4State]

Yeah, when USM fired Ellis Johnson, they couldn?t hire anybody any good. Just a guy that got them back on track and is now a OC in the NFL. And that?s lowly USM who paid less than $1Mill a year. $5Mill fixes a lot of problems with a job.

This is the biggest difference now between MSU today and years ago. I'm pretty sure when we hired Croom it was less than a million and near the bottom of the SEC in salary.

[Todd4State]

We also didn't extend him after '15.

At that point though, Dan also had a body of work of 8 years - had a fairly strong recruiting class coming in, and ended the season with positive momentum. We also don't know if his contract had some sort of clause that triggered the extension.

My point is it looks like we're having a typical "Dan Mullen" type year. Lose to ranked teams and beat teams "we're supposed to beat". With Dan he gets glorified. With Joe doing the same thing- he gets the hot seat.

I'll change my opinion if we start losing game against teams we're supposed to beat.

[Cooterpoot]

Yep. Coaches are chasing huge money every year. It’s not hard to find a good coach for $5mill. But Cohen hasn’t proven he’s willing to pay for coaches. He’s gone cheap every time so far.

[Todd4State]

Listen to this guy. My source said the wheels are in motion for a change this November if the offense remains putrid. This same source knew about Cannizzaro and Rick Ray firings before they were announced. You cannot be hired as an offensive guru and have this many putrid showings, and keep you job. I man just somewhat hopeful that those in charge follow through with their recent comments.

It's pretty obvious to me that Joe is getting caught in the crossfire of people that want Cohen out as AD. Reading between the lines.

[Cooterpoot]

My point is it looks like we're having a typical "Dan Mullen" type year. Lose to ranked teams and beat teams "we're supposed to beat". With Dan he gets glorified. With Joe doing the same thing- he gets the hot seat.

I'll change my opinion if we start losing game against teams we're supposed to beat.

Jo isn’t doing what Dan did. Dan won the games he was favored in.

[Todd4State]

Jo isn’t doing what Dan did. Dan won the games he was favored in.

Like South Alabama and the Egg Bowl last year?**

I'm talking about end results. Not betting lines.

[Cooterpoot]

You cherry picking. Dan quit end of the year. UM was a given. USA was a rebuild year. Fact is, he won a lot of games he was favored to win. Those are the ones you mention he should’ve won. Jo hasn’t done that with a talented team.

[dawgday166]

My point is it looks like we're having a typical "Dan Mullen" type year. Lose to ranked teams and beat teams "we're supposed to beat". With Dan he gets glorified. With Joe doing the same thing- he gets the hot seat.

I'll change my opinion if we start losing game against teams we're supposed to beat.

We were supposed to beat every team we played except AU. If we have Vandy's OC we're 6-1.

[BrunswickDawg]

My point is it looks like we're having a typical "Dan Mullen" type year. Lose to ranked teams and beat teams "we're supposed to beat". With Dan he gets glorified. With Joe doing the same thing- he gets the hot seat.

I'll change my opinion if we start losing game against teams we're supposed to beat.

I don't disagree with that at all.
I think that then get's into the "how" we are losing not the actual losing. But, even then, in those 5-7 win seasons, it was usually Dan's lack of offense that put us in that position. The exception to that was '16 when Sirmon shit the bed.

This game will be another ugly defensive battle - which seems to be the bulk of the SEC this year. There are 7 teams that have given up less than 350 a game in conference. That's the most since 2011. There are 6 teams giving up 20 points or less in conference play. There are usually only 2-3 - some years only 1. And yeah, it's only the mid point of the season - but I don't see that trend changing much.

[Really Clark?]

My point is it looks like we're having a typical "Dan Mullen" type year. Lose to ranked teams and beat teams "we're supposed to beat". With Dan he gets glorified. With Joe doing the same thing- he gets the hot seat.

I'll change my opinion if we start losing game against teams we're supposed to beat.

If it was Dan you would have written 3 War and Peace novels breaking down all of his faults with play calling, etc. I get it’s a new coach and I haven’t and will not call for his firing at this point in year one. We should see the offense trend back up with our remaining schedule. But looking at the overall optics in the league for the last 10 years, if our trend maintains, its been one of the worse drops in production in offense we have seen(and if you consider its from a team that returned 90% of its production from a year ago it may be the worse drop). I can’t even think of a first year coach that has done so poorly with his side of the ball. Very disappointed in a hire that I was very excited with

[BrunswickDawg]

If it was Dan you would have written 3 War and Peace novels breaking down all of his faults with play calling, etc. I get it’s a new coach and I haven’t and will not call for his firing at this point in year one. We should see the offense trend back up with our remaining schedule. But looking at the overall optics in the league for the last 10 years, if our trend maintains, its been one of the worse drops in production in offense we have seen(and if you consider its from a team that returned 90% of its production from a year ago it may be the worse drop). I can’t even think of a first year coach that has done so poorly with his side of the ball. Very disappointed in a hire that I was very excited with

Ellis Johnson in 2012 with the Buzzards. They were 25th in Scoring D in '11 with 20.8 ppg; dropped to 116th and 37.8 ppg. I have no idea who they returned - but Ellis definitely crapped out on that one.

[Really Clark?]

Ellis Johnson in 2012 with the Buzzards. They were 25th in Scoring D in '11 with 20.8 ppg; dropped to 116th and 37.8 ppg. I have no idea who they returned - but Ellis definitely crapped out on that one.

Apologize, I was talking SEC but didn’t state that in my post. But yeah Ellis completely destroyed them that year.

The went from 21.3 in conference per game to 37.8. 16.5 points is very similar to our situation

[Tbonewannabe]

Let me tell you why this is false. One most coached were aware of the talent we had returning and two we can pay 4 MM if we had to.
Based on my sources joe aced the interview with Cohn but the reality is it?s it?s like the guy who interviews well but doesn?t back it up with results. Cohn got outsmarted
Moorhead was on no ones list. No one. So why did we hire him

Most Media thought we hired the best coach not named Chip Kelly (2-5 record) or Scott Frost (1-6 record). We hired an Offensive Coordinator that was more respected than Dan was when we hired him. Dan helped Urban design that offense, Joe created his offense himself. The offense has worked at Fordham, UConn, and Penn St. The offense has never had issues like it is currently having, whether that is due to SEC defensive speed or not having the QB to run it, I don't think either has been proven yet.

I don't blame Cohen for a bad hire as of right now. He hired the Offensive Coordinator of the Year and we are recruiting better than Mullen typically recruited. JoeMo figures out the offense and then everyone is happy, if he doesn't then he probably gets fired next year. I think we would have to go into a complete meltdown and not make a bowl for him to be fired this year.

[Tbonewannabe]

You cherry picking. Dan quit end of the year. UM was a given. USA was a rebuild year. Fact is, he won a lot of games he was favored to win. Those are the ones you mention he should’ve won. Jo hasn’t done that with a talented team.

If Dan let Fitz just run the Option then we win that game. Basically the same thing that everyone is bitching about JoeMo doing. Dan is getting favorably looked on in the rear view. A lot of people aren't happy with the results but just because we beat LSU before Coach O got them going and played Bama close (with their starting LBs out), people think Dan would be 11-1. Possibly but Dan also won 6 regular season games in 2011 with a lot of talent.

[Really Clark?]

Most Media thought we hired the best coach not named Chip Kelly (2-5 record) or Scott Frost (1-6 record). We hired an Offensive Coordinator that was more respected than Dan was when we hired him. Dan helped Urban design that offense, Joe created his offense himself. The offense has worked at Fordham, UConn, and Penn St. The offense has never had issues like it is currently having, whether that is due to SEC defensive speed or not having the QB to run it, I don't think either has been proven yet.

I don't blame Cohen for a bad hire as of right now. He hired the Offensive Coordinator of the Year and we are recruiting better than Mullen typically recruited. JoeMo figures out the offense and then everyone is happy, if he doesn't then he probably gets fired next year. I think we would have to go into a complete meltdown and not make a bowl for him to be fired this year.

Moorehead was not running this at UConn, they developed it at Fordham

[Cooterpoot]

Dan never had this many NFL players on a State roster not this many returning starters. He left a 9 win team Jo is running in the ground because they can’t teach the damn scheme and aren’t good coaches. Our practices are a joke. You can ask anybody that’s ever seen a Mullen practice. They were as good as you’ll see.
Moorhead won’t last beyond next season. I think after this weekend you’ll see it’s coaching and not just the QB.

[BrunswickDawg]

Dan never had this many NFL players on a State roster not this many returning starters. He left a 9 win team Jo is running in the ground because they can’t teach the damn scheme and aren’t good coaches. Our practices are a joke. You can ask anybody that’s ever seen a Mullen practice. They were as good as you’ll see.
Moorhead won’t last beyond next season. I think after this weekend you’ll see it’s coaching and not just the QB.

You are just flat wrong about that. 2011 brought back 14 primary starters, and 4 part-time starters. That's 18 players with significant starts from 2010.

2011 had NFL talent everywhere - Vick Ballard, LaDarius Perkins, Arceto Clark, Chad Bumphis, Blaine Clausell, Malcolm Johnson, Jon Banks, Darius Slay, Jay Hughes, Cam Lawerence, Fletcher Cox, Deontae Skinner, Nickoe Whitley, Matthew Wells, Josh Boyd, Charles Mitchell, Kaleb Eulls, Quenten Saulsberry, Dwayne Cherrington, Preston Smith, Gabe Jackson, and Dillon Day have ALL been on NFL rosters - and ALL started or played significant time.

22 NFL Guys on the roster - not to mention Dak, Josh, B Mac, and Taveze who were all redshirting.

And we went 6-6. Scored 6 on LSU, 10 on UGA, 12 on USC, 7 on Bama, and 17 on Arkansas.

[dawgday166]

You are just flat wrong about that. 2011 brought back 14 primary starters, and 4 part-time starters. That's 18 players with significant starts from 2010.

2011 had NFL talent everywhere - Vick Ballard, LaDarius Perkins, Arceto Clark, Chad Bumphis, Blaine Clausell, Malcolm Johnson, Jon Banks, Darius Slay, Jay Hughes, Cam Lawerence, Fletcher Cox, Deontae Skinner, Nickoe Whitley, Matthew Wells, Josh Boyd, Charles Mitchell, Kaleb Eulls, Dwayne Cherrington, Preston Smith, Gabe Jackson, and Dillon Day have ALL been on NFL rosters - and ALL started or played significant time.

21 NFL Guys on the roster - not to mention Dak, Josh, B Mac, and Taveze who were all redshirting.

And we went 6-6. Scored 6 on LSU, 10 on UGA, 12 on USC, 7 on Bama, and 17 on Arkansas.

I was mad as hell at Dan about that too. But I wouldn't call all of those "NFL talent". Some got shots but really didn't have the talent, although they were close. Some were also young and not fully developed yet like Preston Smith.

[Tbonewannabe]

I was mad as hell at Dan about that too. But I wouldn't call all of those "NFL talent". Some got shots but really didn't have the talent, although they were close. Some were also young and not fully developed yet like Preston Smith.

Vick Ballard - was a starting NFL RB before injuries
Malcolm Johnson - was starting FB for Cleveland for a year or so
Banks - started at corner for a few games for a couple of years
Slay - one of the top corners in the NFL
Cam Lawrence - special teams and started some in Dallas due to injuries. Injuries cut his career short.
Fletcher Cox - one of the best Defensive players regardless of position in the NFL
Skinner - played special teams and had some starts
Whitley - wasn't the same after the knee injury
Wells - played special teams
Boyd - starting DT almost his entire career
Mitchell - not much
Eulls - had some starts but not much
Preston Smith - one of Washington's best DL
Gabe Jackson - started day 1 - one of the top run blocking guards in NFL

We will be lucky if we have that kind of NFL production from this group.

[BrunswickDawg]

I was mad as hell at Dan about that too. But I wouldn't call all of those "NFL talent". Some got shots but really didn't have the talent, although they were close. Some were also young and not fully developed yet like Preston Smith.

7 of them are still on rosters - Clausell, Johnson, Slay, Cox, Eulls, Smith, Jackson
Banks, Ballard, Boyd, Day, Saulsberry, Skinner, all were on rosters for 3 or more years.

Even if you limit it to those guys - that's a significant amount of NFL talent, and I comparable to now. We actually don't know how much NFL talent we have right now. Just like we didn't know how much we actually had in 2011.

[BrunswickDawg]

Vick Ballard - was a starting NFL RB before injuries
Malcolm Johnson - was starting FB for Cleveland for a year or so
Banks - started at corner for a few games for a couple of years
Slay - one of the top corners in the NFL
Cam Lawrence - special teams and started some in Dallas due to injuries. Injuries cut his career short.
Fletcher Cox - one of the best Defensive players regardless of position in the NFL
Skinner - played special teams and had some starts
Whitley - wasn't the same after the knee injury
Wells - played special teams
Boyd - starting DT almost his entire career
Mitchell - not much
Eulls - had some starts but not much
Preston Smith - one of Washington's best DL
Gabe Jackson - started day 1 - one of the top run blocking guards in NFL

We will be lucky if we have that kind of NFL production from this group.

Jon Banks started 40 NFL games across 5 seasons

[Tbonewannabe]

7 of them are still on rosters - Clausell, Johnson, Slay, Cox, Eulls, Smith, Jackson
Banks, Ballard, Boyd, Day, Saulsberry, Skinner, all were on rosters for 3 or more years.

Even if you limit it to those guys - that's a significant amount of NFL talent, and I comparable to now. We actually don't know how much NFL talent we have right now. Just like we didn't know how much we actually had in 2011.

We had 2 starting NFL DTs that are still starting as of today with one being probably top 2 DT in the NFL with Aaron Donald being the only one better. A couple of guys at LB that had some starts and then 2 corners with NFL starts, one winning top college DB and the other being one of the top NFL corners today. That should have been an elite defense and they only won 6 regular season games.

You also have as much NFL talent on the Oline as we probably do now to go with a NFL starting RB until injuries cut him short to go with Malcolm Johnson who started for Cleveland at Fullback.

We might have this kind of talent on our team right now but people would want JoeMo fired if he only wins 6 games.

[Tbonewannabe]

Jon Banks started 40 NFL games across 5 seasons

Thanks, I got tired of looking things up. I knew he started for a couple of years, I just wasn't sure how long.

[dawgday166]

Vick Ballard - was a starting NFL RB before injuries
Malcolm Johnson - was starting FB for Cleveland for a year or so
Banks - started at corner for a few games for a couple of years
Slay - one of the top corners in the NFL
Cam Lawrence - special teams and started some in Dallas due to injuries. Injuries cut his career short.
Fletcher Cox - one of the best Defensive players regardless of position in the NFL
Skinner - played special teams and had some starts
Whitley - wasn't the same after the knee injury
Wells - played special teams
Boyd - starting DT almost his entire career
Mitchell - not much
Eulls - had some starts but not much
Preston Smith - one of Washington's best DL
Gabe Jackson - started day 1 - one of the top run blocking guards in NFL

We will be lucky if we have that kind of NFL production from this group.

So Preston Smith hadn't turned into Preston Smith in 2011. Cam Lawrence wasn't gonna last long in NFL, injuries or no. Skinner, Wells, Mitchell all borderline but not for long in NFL either way.

My point was some of these either were young or borderline. But there were some really elite ones too. And Dan should've done more with that team than he did IMO.

[Tbonewannabe]

So Preston Smith hadn't turned into Preston Smith in 2011. Cam Lawrence wasn't gonna last long in NFL, injuries or no. Skinner, Wells, Mitchell all borderline but not for long in NFL either way.

My point was some of these either were young or borderline. But there were some really elite ones too. And Dan should've done more with that team than he did IMO.

We don't know how great Simmons and Sweat will be but we do know Cox is someone NFL coaches game plan against and Boyd has been a starter almost the entire time. With that kind of talent on the Dline to go with someone who did start at MLB for the Dallas Cowboys making the on the field calls. That defense had NFL talent at all 3 levels with Elite talent level at DT and corner. We "might" have that now but we aren't sure.

Dan followed that team up with the 2012 team that was the embarrassment of the We Believe campaign. We are asking Joe in Year 1 to do what Dan only did one time in 9 years. I agree that Joe has to get his head out of his ass with the offense but there is some unrealistic expectations because people thought UK, UF, and LSU would all be a lot worse than they actually are.

[BrunswickDawg]

So Preston Smith hadn't turned into Preston Smith in 2011. Cam Lawrence wasn't gonna last long in NFL, injuries or no. Skinner, Wells, Mitchell all borderline but not for long in NFL either way.

My point was some of these either were young or borderline. But there were some really elite ones too. And Dan should've done more with that team than he did IMO.

But, you said "NFL talent on the roster". They were on the roster. And they were all contributing. I don't care about age, or years in the system. If they were playing, that means they were the best player we had on the roster. You telling me Jeff Simmons playing in 12 games and starting in 3 as a Freshman doesn't count as him being an NFL talent on the field in that year? Because he was and we all knew it.

And I agree - a lot of those guys are borderline NFL at best. But, considering how many guys playing college ball never get a sniff at that next step - 26 guys out of 85 on scholarship is pretty impressive for MSU. May not be for Bama, but it is for us.

[dawgday166]

We don't know how great Simmons and Sweat will be but we do know Cox is someone NFL coaches game plan against and Boyd has been a starter almost the entire time. With that kind of talent on the Dline to go with someone who did start at MLB for the Dallas Cowboys making the on the field calls. That defense had NFL talent at all 3 levels with Elite talent level at DT and corner. We "might" have that now but we aren't sure.

Dan followed that team up with the 2012 team that was the embarrassment of the We Believe campaign. We are asking Joe in Year 1 to do what Dan only did one time in 9 years. I agree that Joe has to get his head out of his ass with the offense but there is some unrealistic expectations because people thought UK, UF, and LSU would all be a lot worse than they actually are.


But, you said "NFL talent on the roster". They were on the roster. And they were all contributing. I don't care about age, or years in the system. If they were playing, that means they were the best player we had on the roster. You telling me Jeff Simmons playing in 12 games and starting in 3 as a Freshman doesn't count as him being an NFL talent on the field in that year? Because he was and we all knew it.

Not really arguing with either one of you. Have a maybe slightly different take tho. If you're saying the 2 teams are comparable, I probably give the edge to 2011 due to CB play.

[BrunswickDawg]

Not really arguing with either one of you. Have a maybe slightly different take tho. If you're saying the 2 teams are comparable, I probably give the edge to 2011 due to CB play.

We do agree I lot.

I'm speaking more to the "Dan never" side of the post then anything else. I don't care which team was better or had more - but, Dan wasted a ton of potential that season (and the next) and we seem to have starting glossing over that fact. Yes, Relf's injuries hurt along with a few others. But, just like this year, top level SEC defenses shut us down completely, and very good defenses gave us a hard time. Interestingly enough, that was a year where SEC defenses as a whole were incredibly stout (not 2009 stout, but dang good). Kentucky, Auburn, and Ole Miss were the only teams with defenses that gave up 30 or more pts in conference games. 2015 is the only year since that didn't have at least 5 teams that did that.

[cheewgumm]

The problem with most of these posts is everyone is looking at this through the lens of Miss State historical standards.

The difference is that this year is potentially the most talented team we have EVER had. I?m 47. I know. So the this is most probably the most talent Moorhead will ever have. It won?t get better from a talent perpective. It will get decidedly worse.

Also State has worked for years to get to this year. This year was the culmination of an effort to build the talent of our team to a point to compete with Bame, LSU, Auburn, etc.

We finally get there and Moorhead immediatet blows it by not giving the ball to our running backs.

Not to mention the chance to clean up on MS recruits that is probably lost.

Now we start over. Horrific, decade( or more) long error by Moorhead on my opinion.

[Tbonewannabe]

The problem with most of these posts is everyone is looking at this through the lens of Miss State historical standards.

The difference is that this year is potentially the most talented team we have EVER had. I?m 47. I know. So the this is most probably the most talent Moorhead will ever have. It won?t get better from a talent perpective. It will get decidedly worse.

Also State has worked for years to get to this year. This year was the culmination of an effort to build the talent of our team to a point to compete with Bame, LSU, Auburn, etc.

We finally get there and Moorhead immediatet blows it by not giving the ball to our running backs.

Not to mention the chance to clean up on MS recruits that is probably lost.

Now we start over. Horrific, decade( or more) long error by Moorhead on my opinion.

I think other than Dline that this isn't even Mullen's most talented team. 2010 had NFL starters at every level on both sides of the ball except at QB and WR. I don't think this is our one shot in our lifetime as far as talent. Whether JoeMo continues to get this talent to campus is still out. Also 2014 is hands down the best team we have had and it was all on Mullen that we lost to UM and didn't go to the Sugar Bowl.

[cheewgumm]

How many NFL players do we have on our team right now?

In time we?ll see what a disaster this was.

[Tbonewannabe]

How many NFL players do we have on our team right now?

In time we?ll see what a disaster this was.

It could possibly be as bad as 2011 with only 6 wins. Cox and Slay are the best defensive players on their NFL team though. Maybe Simmons, Sweat, Abram, and Dantzler have that type of impact. I hope so because they will be rich folks.

[BrunswickDawg]

The problem with most of these posts is everyone is looking at this through the lens of Miss State historical standards.

The difference is that this year is potentially the most talented team we have EVER had. I?m 47. I know. So the this is most probably the most talent Moorhead will ever have. It won?t get better from a talent perpective. It will get decidedly worse.

Also State has worked for years to get to this year. This year was the culmination of an effort to build the talent of our team to a point to compete with Bame, LSU, Auburn, etc.

We finally get there and Moorhead immediatet blows it by not giving the ball to our running backs.

Not to mention the chance to clean up on MS recruits that is probably lost.

Now we start over. Horrific, decade( or more) long error by Moorhead on my opinion.

No, you can't say this team had the most talent ever. Not yet. And no, it wasn't the culmination of getting talent to the point of beating Bama, LSU, and Auburn. If Dan hadn't gotten damn lucky and landed Grantham and had Rivers, Sweat, Cole, Autry, and Abram fall in his lap because of the Mississippi JUCO system (and probably an assist from Grantham since none of those guys signed till December - and 2 guys were his former players, they had to know something) this team has Jeff Simmons and some good talent. Dan made the Jackie JUCO gamble and signed 9 JUCO guys to raise HIS profile in 2017 so HE could get his ass out of Starkville. It had nothing to do with anything beyond that. If we were building to beat those teams, we don't have to do that. You don't beat those teams being 12th, 8th, 11th, and 9th in the SEC in recruiting the core of this team. You just don't.

[I_Spy]

Dan did what he was supposed to the last few years he did build competitive teams, we epic-Ly failed the next hire. And should have gone big and SEC experienced to ensure we got good production.

[RezDog7]

How many NFL players do we have on our team right now?

In time we?ll see what a disaster this was.

Maybe one on offense.

[RezDog7]

Dan did what he was supposed to the last few years he did build competitive teams, we epic-Ly failed the next hire. And should have gone big and SEC experienced to ensure we got good production.

What SEC coach would we have hired? Funny how everybody was very excited about Moorhead when he was hired because they were tired of Fitz up the middle. Now, you want Fitz up the middle. I'll keep supporting the coach and team. If you want to give your tickets away, I'll take them.

[I_Spy]

What SEC coach would we have hired? Funny how everybody was very excited about Moorhead when he was hired because they were tired of Fitz up the middle. Now, you want Fitz up the middle. I'll keep supporting the coach and team. If you want to give your tickets away, I'll take them.

At this point, and considering we choose to walk on the path with Ole miss, in winning or losing... Hugh Freeze, I’m sure he will forgive us since he’s so godly.. he would use the RB’s if the QB was this shaky.

Or les miles

[RezDog7]

At this point, and considering we choose to walk on the path with Ole miss, in winning or losing... Hugh Freeze, I’m sure he will forgive us since he’s so godly.. he would use the RB’s if the QB was this shaky.

Or les miles

Two coaches everybody on this board has made fun of, :confused:

[Really Clark?]

Maybe one on offense.

There’s more than one just on the OL

[Spiderman]

This label has usually followed a less than optimistic prediction of events (usually preseason about the amount of wins a team will have)

So I'm interested in those who feel they are a realist........Do you think that the university/AD/president will pull the plug on Moorhead at the end of this year?

If not, what if he goes 6-6 or 7-5 next year ? Will you honestly expect Cohen to fire him after year 2 in that case?

Bear in mind that I'm not asking what you WANT to happen. I'm asking based on what you think REALISTICALLY WILL happen and how long Moorhead will last if you believe that is mediocre progress or less than that?

I'm interested because hyperbole has become the norm in discourse around MSU message boards. Things are either so much better than many will accept or so much worse than many accept that sifting through it is pretty tough.

I'm firmly in the middle. That is to say that I'm dissapointed we havent performed better, but I think there is a reasonable explanation and the outlook is positivex

Anyway, I despise it. I dont want all sunshine pumping. Hell, that was what we had before the season and it seemed pretty crappy too. Some jackwagon was trying to tell everyone on the board we aught to be arrogant pricks because that is what winning fanbases do.

He will be the coach next year barring something unforeseen . He could get axed next year if no offensive improvement. Bad thing is next year will be a significant drop in defense.

This was the year to make hay and have that grace period next year.

I'm a 100% "Realist", and while I saw folks in the summer talking how we had upgraded and Mullen was gonna fail, I said that was moronic. While Moorhead could have, and should have, had the best season in decades, he hasn't.

He has taken an improved, talent wise, offense and screwed it up. Can he swallow his pride and let his players play to their strengths and abilities, or will he Croom it up doing what he wants no matter what?

He's got 5 games for us to see.