CJM on Fitz improving

[starkvegasdawg]

"I would say the next step would be incremental improvement in his ability to read defenses, know where to go with the ball, and why standing in the pocket with confidence and delivering the ball accurately," Moorhead said. "I wouldn't say it is one specific thing or a couple of things. It would be coming together and a general progression in those areas."




-Damn you ? marks..- Scooba

[Bully13]

NOMO confusion. Decide WTF then have anuther option immediately at the LOS. Call it then 17 ass. Nuff Said.

[Todd4State]

My thing is Fitz is a fifth year senior. If he hasn't learned how to read defenses by now it's probably not going to happen sometime during the last six games of his career. He's at the "it is what it is" point in his career.

[starkvegasdawg]

My thing is Fitz is a fifth year senior. If he hasn't learned how to read defenses by now it's probably not going to happen sometime during the last six games of his career. He's at the "it is what it is" point in his career.

To me it almost sounded like he was saying he ain't no QB.

[Political Hack]

To me it almost sounded like he was saying he ain't no QB.

He's learning how to play in a new system. Takes time for most guys. His reads are completely different and up until now he really hasn't had a whole lot of reads.

[msstate7]

He's learning how to play in a new system. Takes time for most guys. His reads are completely different and up until now he really hasn't had a whole lot of reads.

I would rather he not have many reads. Maybe tell him to go through 2 progressions. If neither is open, run

[Political Hack]

I would rather he not have many reads. Maybe tell him to go through 2 progressions. If neither is open, run

There's presnap reads and in-play reads. It's a lot, but it's not complicated if you understand the basic philosophy. The problem is that most alignments we see suggest running the pass play but we still have to run the ball anyway, which goes against the philosophy of the offense. So "make your reads, but don't always take them because we need to run it more often" makes it even harder. And I understand that's fitz is a 5th year senior, but it's his first year dealing with all of that at the LOS.

[BuckyIsAB****]

There's presnap reads and in-play reads. It's a lot, but it's not complicated if you understand the basic philosophy. The problem is that most alignments we see suggest running the pass play but we still have to run the ball anyway, which goes against the philosophy of the offense. So "make your reads, but don't always take them because we need to run it more often" makes it even harder. And I understand that's fitz is a 5th year senior, but it's his first year dealing with all of that at the LOS.

If high school offenses can run RPOs then so can we. If Moorheads offense is that damn complicated that its giving the entire offense that much problems then he should change it.

He did vs Auburn. Time will tell if he swallows his ego and sticks with it

[BuckyIsAB****]

I would rather he not have many reads. Maybe tell him to go through 2 progressions. If neither is open, run

Exactly.

[Todd4State]

He's learning how to play in a new system. Takes time for most guys. His reads are completely different and up until now he really hasn't had a whole lot of reads.

It takes Fordham caliber players five games to figure it out. Well see if Fitz does- but based on Fordham and Penn State and their QB's I think it's more about Fitz at this point than the system.

I don't think he has it from a football IQ standpoint. He looks basically the same as he did his sophomore year to me. He still throws balls at 100 MPH whether he needs to or not and most everything is on a line with little touch on it. Also, I think he has other priorities other than football which is fine but it hurts us on Saturdays and has twice this year already.

He's essentially like a five tool player in baseball that gets by on talent alone but isn't interested or willing to put in the work to be elite. He can get by and do a lot of good things on talent alone- mostly running- but it also hurts us against teams that can stop the run.

[TimberBeast]

Who does Fordham play? How did he do at penn state his first year against 80% garbage teams? It’s going to take a minute for Fitz to adapt. Damn. If key was better he would be playing. He’s not even close right now.

[Todd4State]

Who does Fordham play? How did he do at penn state his first year against 80% garbage teams? It’s going to take a minute for Fitz to adapt. Damn. If key was better he would be playing. He’s not even close right now.

It's all relative because Fordham has Patriot League players like their competition and Penn State has Big 10 players like their competition just like we have SEC player to play against out SEC competition.

[TUSK]

wrong thread

[wmccgc]

It takes Fordham caliber players five games to figure it out. Well see if Fitz does- but based on Fordham and Penn State and their QB's I think it's more about Fitz at this point than the system.

I don't think he has it from a football IQ standpoint. He looks basically the same as he did his sophomore year to me. He still throws balls at 100 MPH whether he needs to or not and most everything is on a line with little touch on it. Also, I think he has other priorities other than football which is fine but it hurts us on Saturdays and has twice this year already.

He's essentially like a five tool player in baseball that gets by on talent alone but isn't interested or willing to put in the work to be elite. He can get by and do a lot of good things on talent alone- mostly running- but it also hurts us against teams that can stop the run.

The guy makes it back from one of the worst football injuries I've ever seen, what would be a career-ending injury, (and we can't begin to imagine how much effort it took to get back,) simply because - as he says - he "loves to play football," and you're still trashing his lack of effort, based on your perception of how much he's putting into it? Incredible.

[BrunswickDawg]

The guy makes it back from one of the worst football injuries I've ever seen, what would be a career-ending injury, (and we can't begin to imagine how much effort it took to get back,) simply because - as he says - he "loves to play football," and you're still trashing his lack of effort, based on your perception of how much he's putting into it? Incredible.

Several posters have been running that same "effort" line since he was freshman. No way a kid who had little to no QB experience prior to his Senior year in HS - and had thrown less than 100 passes in games in his life before becoming an SEC starter - gets to where he is without working his ass off. They know nothing beyond a rumor or some arbitrary measurement and make it out to be truth. Nick is a tremendous athlete who may not have the skills to be a next level QB and people use that as an excuse to bash someone who has given a ton to this program. It's BS.

[WinningIsRelentless]

If high school offenses can run RPOs then so can we. If Moorheads offense is that damn complicated that its giving the entire offense that much problems then he should change it.

He did vs Auburn. Time will tell if he swallows his ego and sticks with it

You do realize 99% of high school defensives just run one defense and doesn?t give multiple fronts and coverages?

[Liverpooldawg]

My thing is Fitz is a fifth year senior. If he hasn't learned how to read defenses by now it's probably not going to happen sometime during the last six games of his career. He's at the "it is what it is" point in his career.

Different system this year. He has to think still. That slows you down. Right now it's read, think, react. It needs to be read, react. It is what it is, and it shouldn't be unexpected. If you remember he looked a lot like he does now his first year as a starter. Learning a new system that is almost wholly dependent on reads isn't easy.

[99jc]

I cant understand why people just don't get it with Fitz...hell of a runner....sucks as a passer...nothing more nothing less.

[thf24]

Several posters have been running that same "effort" line since he was freshman. No way a kid who had little to no QB experience prior to his Senior year in HS - and had thrown less than 100 passes in games in his life before becoming an SEC starter - gets to where he is without working his ass off. They know nothing beyond a rumor or some arbitrary measurement and make it out to be truth. Nick is a tremendous athlete who may not have the skills to be a next level QB and people use that as an excuse to bash someone who has given a ton to this program. It's BS.

I don't think a lot of fans understand exactly what it means that Fitz didn't play QB until his senior year. Most college QB prospects have been learning to read defenses, coverages, and throw the ball the way the situation demands as early as 5th or 6th grade. I said in another thread recently that you could say he's effectively a high school senior or a college freshman relative to typical college QB's his age in terms of how many years he's spent learning to be a QB. You are correct - there is no doubt he's put an insane amount of work into getting to the level he currently is from where he started, and it's incredibly ignorant of some of our fans who doubt his effort and commitment because he isn't fulfilling their wishful expectations at this point in his career.

[Todd4State]

The guy makes it back from one of the worst football injuries I've ever seen, what would be a career-ending injury, (and we can't begin to imagine how much effort it took to get back,) simply because - as he says - he "loves to play football," and you're still trashing his lack of effort, based on your perception of how much he's putting into it? Incredible.

And got suspended for game one. That and his performance on the field tell me everything I need to know about his focus.

[Todd4State]

Different system this year. He has to think still. That slows you down. Right now it's read, think, react. It needs to be read, react. It is what it is, and it shouldn't be unexpected. If you remember he looked a lot like he does now his first year as a starter. Learning a new system that is almost wholly dependent on reads isn't easy.


That has zero to do with him trying to throw everything at 100 MPH.

And I remember his sophomore year- that's my problem. He looks the same now as he did then. 49% as a completion percentage is unacceptable in this day and age.

[Gutter Cobreh]

I don't think a lot of fans understand exactly what it means that Fitz didn't play QB until his senior year. Most college QB prospects have been learning to read defenses, coverages, and throw the ball the way the situation demands as early as 5th or 6th grade. I said in another thread recently that you could say he's effectively a high school senior or a college freshman relative to typical college QB's his age in terms of how many years he's spent learning to be a QB. You are correct - there is no doubt he's put an insane amount of work into getting to the level he currently is from where he started, and it's incredibly ignorant of some of our fans who doubt his effort and commitment because he isn't fulfilling their wishful expectations at this point in his career.

For me, this is an accurate representation of what is happening. To add, I don't blame Fitz's issues on Moorhead's new system or think the system is too complex. I think we have a QB that had one year of HS football at QB, and has spent the past few years in a very vanilla offense (the same one we all complained about). The coach has now proven he will make the adjustments needed to win this year with Fitz under center, while at the same time trying to help develop him as best he can. If in a year or so, if we see the same issues with QBs on the team - that is when I'd start blaming the system.

We can talk all we need to about the reads and adjustments, but there are also fundamental issues going on with Fitz and his throwing. Too often he's slinging off his back foot or air-mailing an open target. Blame the OL or the WRs, but I see the same tendencies with Dak in Dallas. The difference between the two is that Fitz doesn't force a ball into tight coverage. He has the intangibles to be a great QB, pending his aptitude at picking up new schemes, but he still has a lot of ground to make up for the time he missed not playing the position.

[smootness]

My thing is Fitz is a fifth year senior. If he hasn't learned how to read defenses by now it's probably not going to happen sometime during the last six games of his career. He's at the "it is what it is" point in his career.

Completely disagree. Funny that we consider college seniors a finished product but NFL rookies to be green and needing development.

Development continues forever.

[BrunswickDawg]

And got suspended for game one. That and his performance on the field tell me everything I need to know about his focus.

Your 24,000 posts on a message board tell me all I need to know about your focus.
The Infamous Todd4State - arbiter of effort and strain.

[Cooterpoot]

I think the staff is frustrated with our inability to handle the system and we're going to see them talking more about kids executing and not handling things. It's going to take a couple more years to make it work. Do State fans have that kind of patients?

[msstate7]

I think the staff is frustrated with our inability to handle the system and we're going to see them talking more about kids executing and not handling things. It's going to take a couple more years to make it work. Do State fans have that kind of patients?

I don't expect much next season anyway. No problem with him ironing the wrinkles out next year. Wish he had rolled with what works best with this talent this season from beginning

[gravedigger]

My thing is Fitz is a fifth year senior. If he hasn't learned how to read defenses by now it's probably not going to happen sometime during the last six games of his career. He's at the "it is what it is" point in his career.

he doesnt mean generally reading defenses. He means specifically what reads he needs to make to make Joe's offense effective. And in that sense, he's only had a few games to get used to is. 5 to be exact.

[Sacrifice]

Who does Fordham play? How did he do at penn state his first year against 80% garbage teams? It?s going to take a minute for Fitz to adapt. Damn. If key was better he would be playing. He?s not even close right now.

I don't know what it is about Fitz but some of our fanbase have had a problem with him from the day he was announced the starter.

First it was Elijah Statley should start over him. He's the 2nd coming of Cam Newton.

Then his soph year the recievers were dropping every ball he threw so it was, they are doing it on purpose because they don't like him and they want Damien Williams to start.

Then it was the guy parties to much, he's immature. Now it's Key should start. I'm sure I'm missing a few more complaints but it's always been something with him.

All the guy does is win football games. If he doesn't get injured we probably win 10 games last year.

As far as him throwing the ball to hard, these receivers catch the ball everyday from him at practice, some have been doing it for a few years now, all of them catch rockets off the jugs machine from 5 yards away, there's no excuse for the drops. Is he a complete qb? Hell no! Is he a winner? Hell yes!

[Cooterpoot]

he doesnt mean generally reading defenses. He means specifically what reads he needs to make to make Joe's offense effective. And in that sense, he's only had a few games to get used to is. 5 to be exact.

And that's where the offense started clicking at the other places he's coached. It just hasn't happened here. And it won't this year.

[Cooterpoot]

I don't know what it is about Fitz but some of our fanbase have had a problem with him from the day he was announced the starter.

First it was Elijah Statley should start over him. He's the 2nd coming of Cam Newton.

Then his soph year the recievers were dropping every ball he threw so it was, they are doing it on purpose because they don't like him and they want Damien Williams to start.

Then it was the guy parties to much, he's immature. Now it's Key should start. I'm sure I'm missing a few more complaints but it's always been something with him.

All the guy does is win football games. If he doesn't get injured we probably win 10 games last year.

As far as him throwing the ball to hard, these receivers catch the ball everyday from him at practice, some have been doing it for a few years now, all of them catch rockets off the jugs machine from 5 yards away, there's no excuse for the drops. Is he a complete qb? Hell no! Is he a winner? Hell yes!

1. The coach, not the fans called him on his inability to make the reads.
2. He doesn't just win. His record is barely over .500. And that's not all on him, but still.
3. None of these receivers have been catching balls from him for years. Guidry is new, Williams is new, this is only Mitchell's 2nd year and those have been the starters.

Nick would be getting more credit this year had Mullen stayed. His injury has affected him too. But he's never been a good passer. Stevie Wonder can see that.

[TrapGame]

I don't expect much next season anyway. No problem with him ironing the wrinkles out next year. Wish he had rolled with what works best with this talent this season from beginning

I don't know about that. Key throws a prettier ball than Fitz. They'll have time to tailor the offense for Key in the spring and fall. I still think Schrader may be the guy depending on his smarts and arm. Although, Joe has learned from Nick that you have to run what works so putting Key in a similar situation may turn out to be pretty special.

[Cooterpoot]

I don't know about that. Key throws a prettier ball than Fitz. They'll have time to tailor the offense for Key in the spring and fall. I still think Schrader may be the guy depending on his smarts and arm. Although, Joe has learned from Nick that you have to run what works so putting Key in a similar situation may turn out to be pretty special.

Key is going to struggle to win the starting job next year. He's going to have to earn it.

[tcdog70]

Hmmm, think about it. Fitz is just 1 part of the equation. To me part of the problem is our OL-(the tackles, mostly) can't do Pass Pro well enough against SEC DEs. So Nick is constantly getting his dick knocked in the dirt or having to throw to quickly. The other part of the problem is we have no elite receiver.
Our WRs struggle to get separation and then struggle to catch the ball. It really doesn't matter who we play at QB when we can't block the DEs or our WRs suck. No QB is going to be 60% on completions.

So what does Joe do? He puts in quick routes and runs the 17 out of the ball. Although we are average at Pas Pro we are Hell coming to Breakfast on run blocking. Calhoun Had more Pancakes than IHOP. Fitz is who we have so please quit bitching about his weakness and enjoy His strength.

[TrapGame]

Key is going to struggle to win the starting job next year. He's going to have to earn it.

That's what I figure too.

[DancingRabbit]

You left off Nick Tiano.




I don't know what it is about Fitz but some of our fanbase have had a problem with him from the day he was announced the starter.

First it was Elijah Statley should start over him. He's the 2nd coming of Cam Newton.

Then his soph year the recievers were dropping every ball he threw so it was, they are doing it on purpose because they don't like him and they want Damien Williams to start.

Then it was the guy parties to much, he's immature. Now it's Key should start. I'm sure I'm missing a few more complaints but it's always been something with him.

All the guy does is win football games. If he doesn't get injured we probably win 10 games last year.

As far as him throwing the ball to hard, these receivers catch the ball everyday from him at practice, some have been doing it for a few years now, all of them catch rockets off the jugs machine from 5 yards away, there's no excuse for the drops. Is he a complete qb? Hell no! Is he a winner? Hell yes!

[msstate7]

I don't know about that. Key throws a prettier ball than Fitz. They'll have time to tailor the offense for Key in the spring and fall. I still think Schrader may be the guy depending on his smarts and arm. Although, Joe has learned from Nick that you have to run what works so putting Key in a similar situation may turn out to be pretty special.

Sweat, Simmons, Jenkins, Calhoun, hoyett, green, Thomas, Brown, McLaurin, and abram are gonna be missed. Our LOS will be gutted. Unless shrader is ready to play, fitz will be missed too imo

[Sacrifice]

1. The coach, not the fans called him on his inability to make the reads.
2. He doesn't just win. His record is barely over .500. And that's not all on him, but still.
3. None of these receivers have been catching balls from him for years. Guidry is new, Williams is new, this is only Mitchell's 2nd year and those have been the starters.

Nick would be getting more credit this year had Mullen stayed. His injury has affected him too. But he's never been a good passer. Stevie Wonder can see that.

I don't think Joe said he has an inability to read defenses. He said that's an area he needs to improve in and Williams, Mitchell, Mixson, Jackson, Thomas, Green were all here last season. They've all caught plenty of balls from Fitz at practice.

[Sacrifice]

Lol that's right, I forgot Tiano should've been the starter.

[Cooterpoot]

I don't think Joe said he has an inability to read defenses. He said that's an area he needs to improve in and Williams, Mitchell, Mixson, Jackson, Thomas, Green were all here last season. They've all caught plenty of balls from Fitz at practice.

Jackson has how many catches? Green is a TE. Mixson caught passes in 1 game. The rest are new minus Mitchell who played very little last year beyond scout team. Fitz struggles to get the ball out on time and where the receivers can catch it. He can't lead receivers without overthrowing them. I'm sorry, but there's not one sole that can show Fitz is a good passer. He's got 3 years of history to prove it.

[Cooterpoot]

Anyone that thinks Dan Mullen was or is a QB whisperer is fooling themselves. Look at the QBs that have played for him. His best have been Dak and Smith as far as NFL prospects. Anybody can teach a kid to run the zone read and check to short passes.

[Sacrifice]

Jackson has how many catches? Green is a TE. Mixson caught passes in 1 game. The rest are new minus Mitchell who played very little last year beyond scout team. Fitz struggles to get the ball out on time and where the receivers can catch it. He can't lead receivers without overthrowing them. I'm sorry, but there's not one sole that can show Fitz is a good passer. He's got 3 years of history to prove it.

If you read my post I said Fitz is not a complete qb. My point was, they should catch the balls that hit their hands. How hard he throws it shouldn't be a surprise to these recievers, they catch balls from him everyday at practice.

[smootness]

Anyone that thinks Dan Mullen was or is a QB whisperer is fooling themselves. Look at the QBs that have played for him. His best have been Dak and Smith as far as NFL prospects. Anybody can teach a kid to run the zone read and check to short passes.

Then there are a ton of really, really stupid coaches out there. If any coach can do it but they all choose not to and have infinitely worse QB play as a result, then they're extremely stupid.

And I'm looking at the QBs who played for him...they basically all played extremely well. The fact that most of them didn't go on to tons of success after playing for him actually helps prove the point that he is a QB whisperer. He took less talented guys and made them extremely effective.

[msstate7]

Anyone that thinks Dan Mullen was or is a QB whisperer is fooling themselves. Look at the QBs that have played for him. His best have been Dak and Smith as far as NFL prospects. Anybody can teach a kid to run the zone read and check to short passes.

Why do you judge a college coach on nfl qb success? Dak Prescott was a better college qb than Tom Brady. Is Stan Parrish (Brady's qb coach at Michigan) a qb whisperer bc Brady and griese making the nfl?

[thf24]

Why do you judge a college coach on nfl qb success? Dak Prescott was a better college qb than Tom Brady. Is Stan Parrish (Brady's qb coach at Michigan) a qb whisperer bc Brady and griese making the nfl?

Look at it this way then; how many QB's drastically improved as passers under Mullen? The only one by my observation is Dak. All his other success stories during his time as a D1 QB coach either arrived passing well enough to run his offense, or improved just enough to be viable. He's not a great developer of QB's; he's a great developer of athletes playing the QB position in his offense.

[msstate7]

Look at it this way then; how many QB's drastically improved as passers under Mullen? The only one by my observation is Dak. All his other success stories during his time as a D1 QB coach either arrived passing well enough to run his offense, or improved just enough to be viable. He's not a great developer of QB's; he's a great developer of athletes playing the QB position in his offense.

Isn't that what you want in college?

[thf24]

Isn't that what you want in college?

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Mullen's reputation as a "QB whisperer" isn't overblown.

[msudawglb]

Then there are a ton of really, really stupid coaches out there. If any coach can do it but they all choose not to and have infinitely worse QB play as a result, then they're extremely stupid.

And I'm looking at the QBs who played for him...they basically all played extremely well. The fact that most of them didn't go on to tons of success after playing for him actually helps prove the point that he is a QB whisperer. He took less talented guys and made them extremely effective.

If he's anything, he is the College qb whisperer. He gets large qb's that show they can run in HS and teaches them how to hit 5 to 10 yard passes.

[msstate7]

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Mullen's reputation as a "QB whisperer" isn't overblown.

Another thing to consider is dak didn't make a big jump passing till his 5th year. Fitz didn't get the 5th year with Mullen. Fitz's passing has regressed without Mullen... comp %, yds/att, and rating are all down. Even yds/rush are down. Fitz has regressed in all facets of the game without Mullen... I think this goes against your argument. Meanwhile, Franks has improved in comp% (slightly), yds/att, rating, and rushing yds/att (dramatically)

[Cooterpoot]

I don't think Fitz's passing has regressed. He's never been great throwing it. I think the offense run by Mullen would certainly make it easier for Nick though. The change and the injury prevented Nick from possibly taking a step forward, but I don't think it's due to Mullen teaching him anything more.

[smootness]

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Mullen's reputation as a "QB whisperer" isn't overblown.

No one has called him a passing guru. He turns anything you give him into at least an average, effective college QB. And if you give him someone with any tools to speak of, he turns them into an excellent QB. That is basically the definition of being a QB whisperer.

He may not be the best at teaching passing technique and such. But he is absolutely among the best, if not the best, at taking what a QB gives him and making them extremely effective. That is all you really want in a coach.

Again, the fact that his QBs haven't had NFL success sort of proves the point even further.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Another thing to consider is dak didn't make a big jump passing till his 5th year. Fitz didn't get the 5th year with Mullen. Fitz's passing has regressed without Mullen... comp %, yds/att, and rating are all down. Even yds/rush are down. Fitz has regressed in a facets of the game without Mullen... I think this goes against your argument. Meanwhile, Franks has improved in comp% (slightly), yds/att, rating, and rushing yds/att (dramatically)

He was regressing with Mullen. See below:

Passing
Year School Conf. Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
*2015 Mississippi State SEC FR QB 7 11 14 78.6 235 16.8 21.1 3 0 290.3
*2016 Mississippi State SEC SO QB 13 196 361 54.3 2423 6.7 6.6 21 10 124.3
*2017 Mississippi State SEC JR QB 12 159 286 55.6 1782 6.2 5.5 15 11 117.5
2018 Mississippi State SEC SR QB 5 61 123 49.6 709 5.8 5.3 4 3 103.9
Career Mississippi State 427 784 54.5 5149 6.6 6.3 43 24 121.6

[msstate7]

I don't think Fitz's passing has regressed. He's never been great throwing it. I think the offense run by Mullen would certainly make it easier for Nick though. The change and the injury prevented Nick from possibly taking a step forward, but I don't think it's due to Mullen teaching him anything more.

His comp % rose each of the last 2 years, and nosedived so far this season... down 6% and yet to face bama or LSU

[QuadrupleOption]

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Mullen's reputation as a "QB whisperer" isn't overblown.

Mullen turned Chris Relf into a pretty good college QB. He turned Fitz into a good college QB. He's earned his rep. I'm interested to see what Moorhead does with our QBs in the future.

[msstate7]

He was regressing with Mullen. See below:

Passing
Year School Conf. Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
*2015 Mississippi State SEC FR QB 7 11 14 78.6 235 16.8 21.1 3 0 290.3
*2016 Mississippi State SEC SO QB 13 196 361 54.3 2423 6.7 6.6 21 10 124.3
*2017 Mississippi State SEC JR QB 12 159 286 55.6 1782 6.2 5.5 15 11 117.5
2018 Mississippi State SEC SR QB 5 61 123 49.6 709 5.8 5.3 4 3 103.9
Career Mississippi State 427 784 54.5 5149 6.6 6.3 43 24 121.6

http://www.espn.com/ncf/qbr/_/group/8

Fitz QBR...
2016 = 77.4
2017 = 78.5
2018 = 54.2

Franks QBR...
2017 = 36.8
2018 = 58.3

Mullen has Franks outplaying fitz, and fitz had been top 4 in sec in QBR the last 2 seasons; he's 12th this season

[Gutter Cobreh]

His comp % rose each of the last 2 years, and nosedived so far this season... down 6% and yet to face bama or LSU

His completion % for the last two seasons has been 54% and 55%. He also played in 12 and 13 games those seasons. Through 5 games this season it sits at 49.6%.

Not a nosedive by any stretch.

His QB rating for 2016 was 124.3 and 117.5 in 2017. A decline under Mullen.

His threw 11 picks to 15 TDs last year versus 10 INTs to 21 TDs in 2016 - another regression under Mullen.

[Gutter Cobreh]

http://www.espn.com/ncf/qbr/_/group/8

Fitz QBR...
2016 = 77.4
2017 = 78.5
2018 = 54.2

Franks QBR...
2017 = 36.8
2018 = 58.3

Mullen has Franks outplaying fitz, and fitz had been top 4 in sec in QBR the last 2 seasons; he's 12th this season

Mullen does have Franks playing better. I would also argue that both are subpar passing QBs.

[thf24]

No one has called him a passing guru. He turns anything you give him into at least an average, effective college QB. And if you give him someone with any tools to speak of, he turns them into an excellent QB. That is basically the definition of being a QB whisperer.

The problem with that is that the majority of his QB's and offenses have only been effective as long as the opponent can't force him to have to pass in order to move the ball. You can't claim a QB is truly effective if the running game has to be rolling for him to generate enough offense to have a chance to win. One out of six QB's who started games for us under Mullen was somewhat able to do that.

If all you have to do to be a "QB whisperer" is take a good athlete and teach him to run the zone read and complete enough passes not to be completely predictable against 75% of your schedule in any given year, then a lot of coaches out there must be "QB whisperers."

[sandwolf]

No one has called him a passing guru. He turns anything you give him into at least an average, effective college QB. And if you give him someone with any tools to speak of, he turns them into an excellent QB. That is basically the definition of being a QB whisperer.

He may not be the best at teaching passing technique and such. But he is absolutely among the best, if not the best, at taking what a QB gives him and making them extremely effective. That is all you really want in a coach.

Again, the fact that his QBs haven't had NFL success sort of proves the point even further.

This. Trying to downplay Mullen's ability to get the most out of his quarterback is a really stupid hill to die on.

[smootness]

The problem with that is that the majority of his QB's and offenses have only been effective as long as the opponent can't force him to have to pass in order to move the ball. You can't claim a QB is truly effective if the running game has to be rolling for him to generate enough offense to have a chance to win. One out of six QB's who started games for us under Mullen was somewhat able to do that.

If all you have to do to be a "QB whisperer" is take a good athlete and teach him to run the zone read and complete enough passes not to be completely predictable against 75% of your schedule in any given year, then a lot of coaches out there must be "QB whisperers."

Give me one QB who has taken QB talent no better than what Mullen's worked with and produced similarly productive results. Just one.

There are a ton of college teams out there who can't seem to find an effective QB to save their life. Mullen does it with every QB he has.

[Bully13]

The guy makes it back from one of the worst football injuries I've ever seen, what would be a career-ending injury, (and we can't begin to imagine how much effort it took to get back,) simply because - as he says - he "loves to play football," and you're still trashing his lack of effort, based on your perception of how much he's putting into it? Incredible.

Rep Given and Great Post Rookie. Damn.

[thf24]

Give me one QB who has taken QB talent no better than what Mullen's worked with and produced similarly productive results. Just one.

There are a ton of college teams out there who can't seem to find an effective QB to save their life. Mullen does it with every QB he has.

Paul Johnson is a perfect example, given that your definition of "effective" doesn't seem to hold the QB to much of a standard throwing the ball as long as the offense works most of the time.

[QuadrupleOption]

That has zero to do with him trying to throw everything at 100 MPH.

This is another thing that's been bothering me about all the Fitz haters - complaining about a QB having awesome arm strength.

I don't give a crap if there are ****ing shockwaves coming off that sumbitch as it floats through the air - our receivers need to CATCH. THE. DAMN. BALL. when it hits them in the hands.

For those of you complaining about ball speed, I suggest you google "Brett Farve throws hard" and peruse the results. One of his receivers at USM, when talking about winning a game against East Carolina, swore that the only way he knew the ball was coming to him was because HE COULD HEAR THE LACES WHISTLING IN THE WIND when his back was turned. Then he turned and caught the damn ball.

It's not going to change so those fellas need to learn how to catch the ball no matter how hard it's thrown at them.

[BrunswickDawg]

Paul Johnson is a perfect example, given that your definition of "effective" doesn't seem to hold the QB to much of a standard throwing the ball as long as the offense works most of the time.

The interesting thing about Paul Johnson's passing game is that as little as they pass, they are still able to produce very effective WR. They consistently have multiple WR average 20 yards a catch for the season.
Demaryius Thomas had an 1,100 yard receiving season under Johnson on 46 catches - and has comparable numbers to Bumphis for his career.
Ricky Jeune averaged 20 yards a catch over 3 seasons with 74 career receptions.

Yet, Johnsons' QB are typically 45-50% completion percentage and only throw about 200 passes a season.

[msstate7]

The interesting thing about Paul Johnson's passing game is that as little as they pass, they are still able to produce very effective WR. They consistently have multiple WR average 20 yards a catch for the season.
Demaryius Thomas had an 1,100 yard receiving season under Johnson on 46 catches - and has comparable numbers to Bumphis for his career.
Ricky Jeune averaged 20 yards a catch over 3 seasons with 74 career receptions.

Yet, Johnsons' QB are typically 45-50% completion percentage and only throw about 200 passes a season.

I bet those WRs learn to block, which the nfl loves

[Bully13]

There's a time to whip it and there's a time to add soft touch.

[chef dixon]

I cant understand why people just don't get it with Fitz...hell of a runner....sucks as a passer...nothing more nothing less.

Yep. Dog shit passer. Great runner.

[smootness]

Paul Johnson is a perfect example, given that your definition of "effective" doesn't seem to hold the QB to much of a standard throwing the ball as long as the offense works most of the time.

No, he isn't.

Josh Nesbitt - pretty good
Tevin Washington - meh
Vad Lee - bad
Justin Thomas - good, then bad, then meh
TaQuon Marshall - pretty good

[smootness]

This is another thing that's been bothering me about all the Fitz haters - complaining about a QB having awesome arm strength.

I don't give a crap if there are ****ing shockwaves coming off that sumbitch as it floats through the air - our receivers need to CATCH. THE. DAMN. BALL. when it hits them in the hands.

For those of you complaining about ball speed, I suggest you google "Brett Farve throws hard" and peruse the results. One of his receivers at USM, when talking about winning a game against East Carolina, swore that the only way he knew the ball was coming to him was because HE COULD HEAR THE LACES WHISTLING IN THE WIND when his back was turned. Then he turned and caught the damn ball.

It's not going to change so those fellas need to learn how to catch the ball no matter how hard it's thrown at them.

No one's complaining that he has too strong an arm. But there absolutely is something to be said for putting some touch on the ball, or realizing where your WR is and how you need to throw it.

I'm sorry, there has never been an acceptable time to throw the ball as hard as you possibly can to a WR 8 yards away from you like Fitzgerald did to Guidry last week. You can say, 'It hit you in the hands, you have to catch it,' but there are about 5% of NFL WRs who would catch that ball.

[Bully13]

No one's complaining that he has too strong an arm. But there absolutely is something to be said for putting some touch on the ball, or realizing where your WR is and how you need to throw it.

I'm sorry, there has never been an acceptable time to throw the ball as hard as you possibly can to a WR 8 yards away from you like Fitzgerald did to Guidry last week. You can say, 'It hit you in the hands, you have to catch it,' but there are about 5% of NFL WRs who would catch that ball.

damn.

[BrunswickDawg]

No one's complaining that he has too strong an arm. But there absolutely is something to be said for putting some touch on the ball, or realizing where your WR is and how you need to throw it.

I'm sorry, there has never been an acceptable time to throw the ball as hard as you possibly can to a WR 8 yards away from you like Fitzgerald did to Guidry last week. You can say, 'It hit you in the hands, you have to catch it,' but there are about 5% of NFL WRs who would catch that ball.

https://twitter.com/zachkruse2/status/885579171975626754



https://youtu.be/6K3hoc_mCnY

[smootness]

The interesting thing about Paul Johnson's passing game is that as little as they pass, they are still able to produce very effective WR. They consistently have multiple WR average 20 yards a catch for the season.
Demaryius Thomas had an 1,100 yard receiving season under Johnson on 46 catches - and has comparable numbers to Bumphis for his career.
Ricky Jeune averaged 20 yards a catch over 3 seasons with 74 career receptions.

Yet, Johnsons' QB are typically 45-50% completion percentage and only throw about 200 passes a season.

They had some luck with WR, but at the same time, the primary reason their WR average so many yards per catch is simply because when they do throw it, they're trying to do damage. So they're throwing the ball downfield, there is no dink and dunk in that offense.

[smootness]

https://twitter.com/zachkruse2/status/885579171975626754



https://youtu.be/6K3hoc_mCnY

Haha what is the point here?

[BB30]

No one's complaining that he has too strong an arm. But there absolutely is something to be said for putting some touch on the ball, or realizing where your WR is and how you need to throw it.

I'm sorry, there has never been an acceptable time to throw the ball as hard as you possibly can to a WR 8 yards away from you like Fitzgerald did to Guidry last week. You can say, 'It hit you in the hands, you have to catch it,' but there are about 5% of NFL WRs who would catch that ball.

I don't know about that. There are a ton of WRs that would have caught that ball. I would be willing to bet a large majority of NFL guys would catch that ball.

Does he need to put more touch on the ball, absolutely. If you take that throw away several drops we have had this year should have been caught regardless of how hard he threw it. If your an SEC receiver you shouldn't have as many drops as you have catches and they are pretty close. You can't blame it all on Fitz, at some point the WRs have to catch the ball. Hard for a QB to be confident throwing the ball when he does put it on the money and it gets dropped repeatedly.

I will say that ball this past week you are referring to would be a hell of a catch but lets not make outlandish statements that only 5% of NFL WRs would catch that ball. Did you watch Brett Favre. That dude threw the piss out of the ball. He also knew how to put touch on the ball but more times than not he was throwing burners to guys.

Sad thing is the ULL game this year, he was putting touch on passes and it finally looked like he may be turning the corner. I think his issue is not having time to process and instinctively throwing bullets. It isn't natural for him to put touch on the ball and when he is just reacting and not having time he just can't do it. ULL he had plenty of time and threw some beautiful passes with a lot of touch. We have left 4-6 TDs and probably a couple of what would have been TD saving drives due to dropped balls on 3rd down.

Fitz is better than a 49% QB. I don't think he is a 60s guy but he certainly should be mid to upper 50s. He really isn't that inaccurate he just throws the piss out of it and our WRs have wooden blocks for hands. He has also had to throw a ton of passes away due to pressure which kills the comp %.

[Cooterpoot]

He throws the piss out of it and he's late a lot.

[smootness]

I don't know about that. There are a ton of WRs that would have caught that ball. I would be willing to bet a large majority of NFL guys would catch that ball.

Does he need to put more touch on the ball, absolutely. If you take that throw away several drops we have had this year should have been caught regardless of how hard he threw it. If your an SEC receiver you shouldn't have as many drops as you have catches and they are pretty close. You can't blame it all on Fitz, at some point the WRs have to catch the ball. Hard for a QB to be confident throwing the ball when he does put it on the money and it gets dropped repeatedly.

I will say that ball this past week you are referring to would be a hell of a catch but lets not make outlandish statements that only 5% of NFL WRs would catch that ball. Did you watch Brett Favre. That dude threw the piss out of the ball. He also knew how to put touch on the ball but more times than not he was throwing burners to guys.

Sad thing is the ULL game this year, he was putting touch on passes and it finally looked like he may be turning the corner. I think his issue is not having time to process and instinctively throwing bullets. It isn't natural for him to put touch on the ball and when he is just reacting and not having time he just can't do it. ULL he had plenty of time and threw some beautiful passes with a lot of touch. We have left 4-6 TDs and probably a couple of what would have been TD saving drives due to dropped balls on 3rd down.

Fitz is better than a 49% QB. I don't think he is a 60s guy but he certainly should be mid to upper 50s. He really isn't that inaccurate he just throws the piss out of it and our WRs have wooden blocks for hands. He has also had to throw a ton of passes away due to pressure which kills the comp %.

It was probably an exaggeration, but not a huge one. That is an incredibly hard pass to catch. Brett Favre would let it go, but it was usually on passes 25+ yards downfield. It's not like he was unleashing on screen passes or quick slants. And if he did, I'd imagine his receivers didn't catch a ton of them.

[smootness]

He throws the piss out of it and he's late a lot.

This is the primary issue. He waits too long on most of the passes he throws. He doesn't throw a guy open or throw it as a WR is making his break. He waits until the WR has made his break and has clearly gotten open. The problem with that is that the WR loses space and the DB has time to react by that point. That's why you see his WRs have little separation, passes get broken up, and the ball come behind them.

[Bully13]

Notice how those catches are wide open receivers taking the ball in the gut with body catches. This is a debate open for discussion.

[BrunswickDawg]

Haha what is the point here?

The Farve pass was a comment on the 5% of NFL WR who would catch the ball. Farve and Fitz throw the ball a lot alike - and actually have very similar college passing numbers.

The Warren Moon video was to show how critical we are being of things most of us can't do ourselves.

[smootness]

The Farve pass was a comment on the 5% of NFL WR who would catch the ball. Farve and Fitz throw the ball a lot alike - and actually have very similar college passing numbers.

The Warren Moon video was to show how critical we are being of things most of us can't do ourselves.

That WR is still almost 25 yards away from him when he throws that. Guidry was right in front of him.

And I'm not being critical of the WR at all, I'm trying to defend them. Also, they picked the most unathletic people they could possibly find for that.

[Todd4State]

Completely disagree. Funny that we consider college seniors a finished product but NFL rookies to be green and needing development.

Development continues forever.

I expect a QB at the SEC level to be able to complete more than 50% of their passes and pass for over 100 yards in a game.

I know- lofty unrealistic expectations.**

[Todd4State]

Your 24,000 posts on a message board tell me all I need to know about your focus.
The Infamous Todd4State - arbiter of effort and strain.

And the fact that you tried to go with post count smack and didn't address any points tells me everything I need to know about your bias towards Fitz. Not that it wasn't obvious to start with.

I'm just glad I wasn't like this with my hometown boy Devon Desper and could judge his performance honestly.

[Todd4State]

This is another thing that's been bothering me about all the Fitz haters - complaining about a QB having awesome arm strength.

I don't give a crap if there are ****ing shockwaves coming off that sumbitch as it floats through the air - our receivers need to CATCH. THE. DAMN. BALL. when it hits them in the hands.

For those of you complaining about ball speed, I suggest you google "Brett Farve throws hard" and peruse the results. One of his receivers at USM, when talking about winning a game against East Carolina, swore that the only way he knew the ball was coming to him was because HE COULD HEAR THE LACES WHISTLING IN THE WIND when his back was turned. Then he turned and caught the damn ball.

It's not going to change so those fellas need to learn how to catch the ball no matter how hard it's thrown at them.

Brett Favre also started out in an option offense in high school and was able to complete more than 50% of his passes back in the 80's in college. Probably not the best example here.


I don't have a problem with his arm strength- my problem is how and when he uses that arm strength. When a receiver is 10 yards away and all alone there is no need to send a rocket at 100 MPH to the guy.

[BrunswickDawg]

Brett Favre also started out in an option offense in high school and was able to complete more than 50% of his passes back in the 80's in college. Probably not the best example here.


I don't have a problem with his arm strength- my problem is how and when he uses that arm strength. When a receiver is 10 yards away and all alone there is no need to send a rocket at 100 MPH to the guy.

Farve completed 52.4% of his passes at USM.

Fitz is at 54.5% and played in a triple option offense in HS. So, yeah it probably is a decent comparison. And their yards per attempt are identical at 6.6. And their adjusted yards per attempt are damn near identical at 6.2 for Farve and 6.3 for Fitz. Fitz has a higher rating at 121.6 vs Farve at 116.6

And Farve was known for 3 things in college - his inconsistency, how hard he threw, and his toughness. Sounds pretty familiar.
Scouts said some interesting things -
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/212246281.html/

"He's just wild. They go all over the place."
Also some great recognition of how tough and a great leader Farve was. Wish the Falcons had kept him instead of Chris Miller or Billy Joe Turnover.

[BrunswickDawg]

And the fact that you tried to go with post count smack and didn't address any points tells me everything I need to know about your bias towards Fitz. Not that it wasn't obvious to start with.

I'm just glad I wasn't like this with my hometown boy Devon Desper and could judge his performance honestly.

Oh, you mean I made a judgement about someone I don't know, based on a random piece of information and drew an all-encompassing conclusion about that person? Why am I not shocked that you missed that point.

And anyone who has been on this board since 2013 knows I'm a Fitz homer - defending him isn't bias. I've never claimed he's perfect, or doesn't need improvement. What I haven't done - and don't do - is judge someone I don't know on things like work ethic. We don't see practices, don't know schedules, and just flat out don't know any of these kids. You may be comfortable being that judgemental from afar, but I'm not. Critique performance all day long.

[chef dixon]

People keep bringing up the fact Fitz didn?t play QB til he was a senior or he was in a triple option offense as if it is a validation for him. If you suck at it, you suck at it. It doesn?t make it acceptable.

[msstate7]

People keep bringing up the fact Fitz didn?t play QB til he was a senior or he was in a triple option offense as if it is a validation for him. If you suck at it, you suck at it. It doesn?t make it acceptable.

He doesn't "suck at it". ESPN qbr had fitz as the #14 qb in the country in 2017 and #19 qb in the country in 2016

http://www.espn.com/ncf/qbr/_/year/2016

[chef dixon]

He doesn't "suck at it". ESPN qbr had fitz as the #14 qb in the country in 2017 and #19 qb in the country in 2016

http://www.espn.com/ncf/qbr/_/year/2016

I?m talking about passing in particular. You do realize that takes into account running? If you look at the passing factor he is 100th both years. If you look at the running factor hes 2nd and 5th. Great runner. Shitty passer. He is what he is.

[msstate7]

I?m talking about passing in particular. You do realize that takes into account running? If you look at the passing factor he is 100th both years. If you look at the running factor hes 2nd and 5th. Great runner. Shitty passer. He is what he is.

Yes, I know it takes into effect rushing. A running qb is a huge asset in college. Tommie Frazier is my favorite college qb of all time and one of the greatest college qbs too. He was great, and didn't pass much at all

[chef dixon]

Also currently this season Fitz is NEGATIVE 1.1 expected points added on plays with passing attempts. That?s good for 129th in the country. The numbers are ugly.

[msstate7]

Also currently this season Fitz is NEGATIVE 1.1 expected points added on plays with passing attempts. That?s good for 129th in the country. The numbers are ugly.


Fitz QBR...
2016 = 77.4
2017 = 78.5
2018 = 54.2

I think it's clear fitz is missing Mullen

[Liverpooldawg]

That has zero to do with him trying to throw everything at 100 MPH.

And I remember his sophomore year- that's my problem. He looks the same now as he did then. 49% as a completion percentage is unacceptable in this day and age.
That is what it is. The fact remains is he is learning a new system, and the coaches are learning him. When he gets the system, and the coaches get him, he is a pretty good college QB. The guy can flat out run the ball, even after the injury he can still tote the mail. He is our best option this year. Joe obviously gets it now. If he had got it earlier we might be undefeated right now. Mullen picked a really bad year to actually land another job. Then again, we might not have landed Moorhead next year, and I think the guy is a potential elite coach. I wouldn't have said that before last week, but he adapted his system to what he has. He ain't Croom for sure. Just live with it this year. In reality that is all you CAN do.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Fitz QBR...
2016 = 77.4
2017 = 78.5
2018 = 54.2

I think it's clear fitz is missing Mullen

I posted the below earlier in this thread, but it doesn't fit your narrative so continue to ignore:

His QB rating for 2016 was 124.3 and 117.5 in 2017. A decline under Mullen.

His threw 11 picks to 15 TDs last year versus 10 INTs to 21 TDs in 2016 - another regression under Mullen.

[msstate7]

I posted the below earlier in this thread, but it doesn't fit your narrative so continue to ignore:

His QB rating for 2016 was 124.3 and 117.5 in 2017. A decline under Mullen.

His threw 11 picks to 15 TDs last year versus 10 INTs to 21 TDs in 2016 - another regression under Mullen.

If that's regression, then its regression x10 under Moorhead, no?

[Gutter Cobreh]

If that's regression, then its regression x10 under Moorhead, no?

I wouldn't go that far. He's coming off a bad injury and has only played in 5 games this year. I'm holding off claiming some of what you are until the season is over and you can compare at a better rate.

He still isn't a good passer and unfortunately, I don't think he'll ever be.

[msstate7]

I wouldn't go that far. He's coming off a bad injury and has only played in 5 games this year. I'm holding off claiming some of what you are until the season is over and you can compare at a better rate.

He still isn't a good passer and unfortunately, I don't think he'll ever be.

Definetely fair to wait till the end of the year.

[Todd4State]

Farve completed 52.4% of his passes at USM.

Fitz is at 54.5% and played in a triple option offense in HS. So, yeah it probably is a decent comparison. And their yards per attempt are identical at 6.6. And their adjusted yards per attempt are damn near identical at 6.2 for Farve and 6.3 for Fitz. Fitz has a higher rating at 121.6 vs Farve at 116.6

And Farve was known for 3 things in college - his inconsistency, how hard he threw, and his toughness. Sounds pretty familiar.
Scouts said some interesting things -
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/212246281.html/

"He's just wild. They go all over the place."
Also some great recognition of how tough and a great leader Farve was. Wish the Falcons had kept him instead of Chris Miller or Billy Joe Turnover.

That was also in an era where a completion percentage of 50% was acceptable and the game was vastly different than it is now.

[Todd4State]

Oh, you mean I made a judgement about someone I don't know, based on a random piece of information and drew an all-encompassing conclusion about that person? Why am I not shocked that you missed that point.

And anyone who has been on this board since 2013 knows I'm a Fitz homer - defending him isn't bias. I've never claimed he's perfect, or doesn't need improvement. What I haven't done - and don't do - is judge someone I don't know on things like work ethic. We don't see practices, don't know schedules, and just flat out don't know any of these kids. You may be comfortable being that judgemental from afar, but I'm not. Critique performance all day long.

So are you denying that he was suspended? I doubt it was for extra passing. Most people that are hard workers generally improve. I don't need to know our practice schedule to know that he's at 49% passing right now and that is well below the standard that our head coach set which is 65%.

Based on his on the field performance that I and 60K fans saw live he hasn't shown any improvement since his sophomore year.

You're in complete denial about Fitz and what he is and just keep making one excuse after the other. I'm not critiquing him on something random- it's based on known facts and on the field performance. He has been a complete disappointment this year and a BIG reason why we have two losses right now. Because he struggles completing simple crossing routes. Which is unacceptable at the other 13 SEC schools with us being the possible exception apparently.

[Todd4State]

That is what it is. The fact remains is he is learning a new system, and the coaches are learning him. When he gets the system, and the coaches get him, he is a pretty good college QB. The guy can flat out run the ball, even after the injury he can still tote the mail. He is our best option this year. Joe obviously gets it now. If he had got it earlier we might be undefeated right now. Mullen picked a really bad year to actually land another job. Then again, we might not have landed Moorhead next year, and I think the guy is a potential elite coach. I wouldn't have said that before last week, but he adapted his system to what he has. He ain't Croom for sure. Just live with it this year. In reality that is all you CAN do.


Adapting is all we can do for now- but that's really disappointing to be extremely one dimensional with a QB with his raw talent and the elite defense we have. To me it's a tremendous waste.

[Liverpooldawg]

Adapting is all we can do for now- but that's really disappointing to be extremely one dimensional with a QB with his raw talent and the elite defense we have. To me it's a tremendous waste.

What raw talent is that? Fitz is a damn good running QB, and that is developed and the new coaching staff gets it now. In the passing game he is a 24 pounder smoothbore in the Civil War, powerful as all heck, but lacking in accuracy. It was a very effective weapon, when used appropriately.

[TimberBeast]

He has been a complete disappointment this year and a BIG reason why we have two losses right now.

Actually one of the BIGGEST reasons for one of those losses was a perfectly thrown touchdown pass that was dropped by Mitchell. Fitz isn’t the best passer in college football, and you won’t see anyone saying that. But our wide receivers and pass blocking are killing us, not Fitz’s passing.

[TimberBeast]

He has been a complete disappointment this year and a BIG reason why we have two losses right now.

Actually one of the BIGGEST reasons for one of those losses was a perfectly thrown touchdown pass that was dropped by Mitchell. Fitz isn?t the best passer in college football, and you won?t see anyone saying that. But our wide receivers and pass blocking are killing us, not Fitz?s passing.

[yjnkdawg]

Fitz had limited passing opportunities when he was in high school, with the offense that they ran. He threw 8 passes his junior year with 2 completion. For his 2 year high school career, as a quarterback, he threw only 86 passes and completed 35 for a 40.7% completion rate. His average passing yards per game was 31 yards for his two years.. Mullen recruited Fitz as an athlete playing quarterback, rather than a quarterback who is an athlete. So Fitz just not has had a history as being a passing quarterback. Nobody puts it on the line and leaves it all on the field, as Fitz does. He always gives his all. I hope he can improve his passing proficiency, but it seems like it is what it is.

[TimberBeast]

Actually one of the BIGGEST reasons for one of those losses was a perfectly thrown touchdown pass that was dropped by Mitchell. Fitz isn?t the best passer in college football, and you won?t see anyone saying that. But our wide receivers and pass blocking are killing us, not Fitz?s passing.

No response to this, typical.

[tcdog70]

Actually one of the BIGGEST reasons for one of those losses was a perfectly thrown touchdown pass that was dropped by Mitchell. Fitz isn?t the best passer in college football, and you won?t see anyone saying that. But our wide receivers and pass blocking are killing us, not Fitz?s passing.

Correct. Actually if JoMo had played to Fitz's strength instead of his weakness , we might be 6-0. Use the Auburn game plan and I think we win both games we lost.

[smootness]

Actually one of the BIGGEST reasons for one of those losses was a perfectly thrown touchdown pass that was dropped by Mitchell. Fitz isn?t the best passer in college football, and you won?t see anyone saying that. But our wide receivers and pass blocking are killing us, not Fitz?s passing.

Fitz's accuracy is at least as big a problem as our WRs. Look at the Auburn game - basically every incomplete pass is the result of a poor throw. It's been that way most of the year. Obviously our WRs haven't been great and have dropped some key passes and deserve their share of the blame. But Fitz has not been good passing, you can't blame them and absolve him.

[klc90]

I'll respond. It wasn't perfectly thrown. Was it watchable? Yes. But Mitchell had to turn back to get his hands on the ball, instead of it being in his outstretched hands.

Fitz rarely puts the ball out in front of a receiver. They are usually reaching back or adjusting their route in some way to make a play on the ball. Watch the screens we throw, 85% are throws where the back or WR has to adjust to the ball instead of catching it out in front with momentum.

Fitz is a great runner, but average at best passer. It is what it is.

[BrunswickDawg]

Fitz's accuracy is at least as big a problem as our WRs. Look at the Auburn game - basically every incomplete pass is the result of a poor throw. It's been that way most of the year. Obviously our WRs haven't been great and have dropped some key passes and deserve their share of the blame. But Fitz has not been good passing, you can't blame them and absolve him.


This is very true. Something that we have to keep in mind with this though is that we are talking about a very small number over-all in what Moorhead stated as his goal for the passing Game. Joe wants 65% completion. Fitz has thrown 123 passes and completed 61 for 49.6%. 79 completions gets you to 65%. That's 4 (3.6 to be accurate) completions a game thru 5 starts. For every 4 bad passes Fitz has made - I know that with film study you could find a combination of drops, botched routes leading to incompletions, or throw-aways to avoid a loss due to bad OL protection to equal those 4 bad passes. So while Fitz's accuracy is a big factor, so is the new system, the play calling, the OL play, and WR play. Our lack of production in the passing game has been a team effort across the board. We have not had a game where all of the phases needed be successful have clicked except the ULL game.

In any of this discussion I haven't seen anyone try to absolve Fitz from not getting it done. I have seen people recognizing that for all the potential the kid has, there are factors that can be inhibiting his ability to pick up this offense and make the improvement needed to make it work at a high level. Fitz's lack of experience as a QB is one. His injury is one. Is inability to maintain his mechanics is one. Those things then limit his ability to some of the things other QBs might be able to do in this system. It also might mean that regardless of the amount of work off-field to correct those issues, he might not be able to fully "get it" until much later than someone who played QB since he was 10 and grew up learning the craft of being a QB.

[smootness]

In any of this discussion I haven't seen anyone try to absolve Fitz from not getting it done.

Well, he literally said it was the pass blocking and WRs that were killing us and specifically not Fitz's passing. I'm just saying, he is at least as much to blame as them.

[yjnkdawg]

I'll respond. It wasn't perfectly thrown. Was it watchable? Yes. But Mitchell had to turn back to get his hands on the ball, instead of it being in his outstretched hands.

Fitz rarely puts the ball out in front of a receiver. They are usually reaching back or adjusting their route in some way to make a play on the ball. Watch the screens we throw, 85% are throws where the back or WR has to adjust to the ball instead of catching it out in front with momentum.

Fitz is a great runner, but average at best passer. It is what it is.



Mitchell was trying to run before he secured the ball. He will tell you that he should have made that catch.

[Todd4State]

Actually one of the BIGGEST reasons for one of those losses was a perfectly thrown touchdown pass that was dropped by Mitchell. Fitz isn?t the best passer in college football, and you won?t see anyone saying that. But our wide receivers and pass blocking are killing us, not Fitz?s passing.

You also won't see very many people saying that one play is the biggest reason why a game was lost. A few more completed passes and that game doesn't come down to one play like that. That's sort of my point. We're leaving tons of points out on the field because our QB can't complete short routes consistently.

I agree that the WR's and OL are major issues. However, Fitz doesn't really do a lot to help our receivers at times. I remember Fred Ross having issues catching passes from Fitz and he is one of the best WR's in school history. To me the o-line issue is more on Eiland than the other four.

[Sacrifice]

Good lord, reading this thread you'd think we had Mike Henig playing qb again.