For all the crap people give Mullen

[Coach34]

about our offense and such-since Mullen came to State in 2009- Bama, UPig, and State have had the most consistent offenses. Those are the only two schools that have yet to finish below us in Total O. And both are behind us currently.

We have finished 7th, 5th, 5th, and 7th in total offense under Mullen. Currently? We are 7th.


Just a little Tuesday fun fact

[smootness]

There is no doubt that Mullen is light years ahead of the other coaches throughout our history in building a solid, effective offense.

Unfortunately, bringing up facts like this in his defense generally gets you labeled as a 'poor ol' State' type of fan. Apparently, if you think the coach shouldn't be fired just because we aren't #1 in everything, then you're 'part of the problem'.

Our offense has been an issue at times recently, and we need to get things fixed in that regard. I think as Prescott matures, our offense will become very, very good.

People like to throw out programs like Oregon, Baylor, and a few others as the type of offense they want, and it would be tough for anyone to disagree. But a) it's not easy to find coaches who can make an offense work to that degree on this level; and b) it's very, very hard to do that in the SEC.

Yes, there have been schools who have done it recently...Texas A&M, Auburn at times, Florida. Of course, what those schools had was elite QBs at the helm...Manziel, Newton, and Tebow. Get that kind of difference-maker at QB, and it changes everything. LSU looked absolutely horrid on offense for much of last year, and now they're going nuts. Why? Because Mettenberger has improved by leaps and bounds, and their WRs are now insanely difficult to cover.

It's always about talent. Scheme can help, but you can't ever make it work consistently against the top teams in this conference unless your talent level is up to par.

I think our fanbase is afraid of Freeze to a large degree and have some delusion that their offense is crazy good, so it shouldn't be hard for us to find that. Well, their offense isn't all that great. They run a ton of plays, so their numbers end up being higher in sum, but it hurts their defense and leads to 3-and-outs too often against top teams.

[Coach34]

I think our fanbase is afraid of Freeze to a large degree and have some delusion that their offense is crazy good, so it shouldn't be hard for us to find that. Well, their offense isn't all that great. They run a ton of plays, so their numbers end up being higher in sum, but it hurts their defense and leads to 3-and-outs too often against top teams.

OM is 9th in the SEC in total offense right now...9th

[HancockCountyDog]

OM is 9th in the SEC in total offense right now...9th

I hear ya coach, but we put up 550+ against Alcorn and Troy. In the four games against other opponents we are hovering around 400 ypg, which is decent - but would be 11th in the SEC.

I think we can all agree the offense has to do better.

I was at the damn BG game, and I haven't felt like that since the 3-2 loss against AU. It wasn't the performance as much as I didn't understand what we were doing against BG. It comes down to having an identity and due to Mullen going back and forth on QB's we really don't have one.

It was good to see Perkins look like himself. I know he isn't everyone's favorite on here, but damn he played hard.

[smootness]

OM is 9th in the SEC in total offense right now...9th

So it isn't that great in sum, either. Haha...to me, watching it just seems like a lot of smoke and mirrors.

[Coach34]

I hear ya coach, but we put up 550+ against Alcorn and Troy. In the four games against other opponents we are hovering around 400 ypg, which is decent - but would be 11th in the SEC.

I think we can all agree the offense has to do better.


No- we're being weighed down by the cluster**** of starting the season with Russell and not the Spread Option. We only had 333 vs Ok State

415 vs Auburn in Dakota's 1st start
468 vs LSU
422 vs BG (on only 3 second half possessions)

That's a 435 avg in those 3 games.

[MarketingBully01]

I'll take Mullen's offense any day over the Croom dumpster fire that we had before.

[MarketingBully01]

Really? The 3-2 game? You can't be serious. No comparison whatsoever. Hey, if you wanted to see a game where we didn't know what the hell we were doing I have one phrase. Remember the Maine! Last I saw, we haven't had one of those since the Croom days....

[HancockCountyDog]

No- we're being weighed down by the cluster**** of starting the season with Russell and not the Spread Option. We only had 333 vs Ok State

415 vs Auburn in Dakota's 1st start
468 vs LSU
422 vs BG (on only 3 second half possessions)

That's a 435 avg in those 3 games.

Yeah, but that puts us tied for the bears offense at 9th, and they played Bama already which I think they only put up about 220 yards.

Look, I started #TeamDak, but right now Mullen is stuck in neutral it seems like. Dak throwing on 3rd and long. Tyler running the option. Its just bizarre.

[engie]

I think you've got to look at it as "how are we doing against other teams in the here and now" instead of historical context of MSU offenses. The game has changed -- and we've changed with it.

Average total offense since 2009 in the SEC(obviously excluding aTm and Mizzou)...separated into tiers...


Alabama - 434.14
Georgia - 428.12
Arkansas - 427.8

Auburn - 409.6

South Carolina - 395.34
MSU - 393.12
Ole Miss - 388.28
Tennessee - 386.24

LSU - 368.54
Florida - 367.92

Vandy - 349.86
Kentucky - 337.28

[HancockCountyDog]

Really? The 3-2 game? You can't be serious. No comparison whatsoever. Hey, if you wanted to see a game where we didn't know what the hell we were doing I have one phrase. Remember the Maine! Last I saw, we haven't had one of those since the Croom days....

In the second half of that BG game, I saw us misuse weapons on offense, and make just bizarre decisions. Of course the game was much more enjoyable than 3-2, but we scored 0 in the second half and im sitting in the stands watching Robinson, Lewis, and Johnson just do very little and I didn't understand what we were doing.

If you take out Dak's 75 yard run, we had 40 carries for 170 yards. Not bad, but not great either. Indiana put up 600 yards of offense on BG. 600 yards!

They beat them 42-10. Somehow we are rationalizing that they are a good team. They are a decent MAC team, but come on.

[BulldogBear]

Really? The 3-2 game? You can't be serious. No comparison whatsoever. Hey, if you wanted to see a game where we didn't know what the hell we were doing I have one phrase. Remember the Maine! Last I saw, we haven't had one of those since the Croom days....

Took my son, the actual "BulldogBear," to that game. He was 11 and he kept burying his head in the stadium seat every time we failed to convert! He was practically beating his head in frustration. I don't wanna go back that offense. That one makes this one look like Oregon's O!

[starkvegasdawg]

Dak throwing on 3rd and long. Tyler running the option. Its just bizarre.

I think he has to do that to a certain extent. Otherwise, we become very predictable. If you remember when Dak first started playing when he came into the game the defense would shift to 9 in the box because the whole world knew it was a running play. I think you have to have each QB run the other's offense just a little to keep the defenses somewhat honest.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

I hear ya coach, but we put up 550+ against Alcorn and Troy. In the four games against other opponents we are hovering around 400 ypg, which is decent - but would be 11th in the SEC.

Of course our offense is going to be 11th in the SEC if you take out our games vs scrubs and you compare those numbers to everyone else's numbers with the scrub games included.

Way to manipulate stats.

[Coach 57]

Of course our offense is going to be 11th in the SEC if you take out our games vs scrubs and you compare those numbers to everyone else's numbers with the scrub games included.

Way to manipulate stats.

Amen! Not only that how many qtrs did the starters on OUR team play in those games too. You can twist stats all day long! Some of you people are just borderline moronic when it comes to this stuff. Goodness gracious! Do you people remember feeling this way in Dan's greatest season here? In 2010 we won 9 games, smashed UM & smacked Michigan around in the Gator! But so quickly you forgot what happened in October of that year when a little known Starkville High Yellowjacket came back home for a home game when he was a visitor. UAB only won 4 games that year! And we were ranked & were a 20pt favorite and BARELY won! But you people don't remember that though do you? Open your stinking eyes!

[DownwardDawg]

Amen! Not only that how many qtrs did the starters on OUR team play in those games too. You can twist stats all day long! Some of you people are just borderline moronic when it comes to this stuff. Goodness gracious! Do you people remember feeling this way in Dan's greatest season here? In 2010 we won 9 games, smashed UM & smacked Michigan around in the Gator! But so quickly you forgot what happened in October of that year when a little known Starkville High Yellowjacket came back home for a home game when he was a visitor. UAB only won 4 games that year! And we were ranked & were a 20pt favorite and BARELY won! But you people don't remember that though do you? Open your stinking eyes!

In their defense, there has already been a few threads about that exact point.

[CadaverDawg]

Amen! Not only that how many qtrs did the starters on OUR team play in those games too. You can twist stats all day long! Some of you people are just borderline moronic when it comes to this stuff. Goodness gracious! Do you people remember feeling this way in Dan's greatest season here? In 2010 we won 9 games, smashed UM & smacked Michigan around in the Gator! But so quickly you forgot what happened in October of that year when a little known Starkville High Yellowjacket came back home for a home game when he was a visitor. UAB only won 4 games that year! And we were ranked & were a 20pt favorite and BARELY won! But you people don't remember that though do you? Open your stinking eyes!

Not saying I don't agree with most of what you say...because I do. But I'm not a fan of the "we always shit the bed against a shitty team each year, IT's WHAT WE DO!!" Attitude. Is that not a poor testament to our head coach if we make a habit of nearly losing to a cupcake every year?

And please spare me the "everybody does it" stuff. MSU is not a team that can take weeks off. Alabama does it because they are Alabam, and even when they sleep walk, they beat a CSU team that is better than BG, by 30. Hell, even ole miss slept through their game with SEMO and won it by 3 TD's. It's not that we have a let down here and there, it's that we almost lose the letdown game. It's not like we controlled everything against BG....if they don't drop a wide open pass on 4th down, we probably lose that game.

And again, luckily we didn't lose it...but don't compare our let downs to let downs by other SEC teams where they still win by 20+. We aren't an elite team, so we can't afford to take weeks off.

Again, not completely disagreeing, because "let downs" happen....but "taking weeks off" can't. And when it is a pattern, it is concerning. What happens if we lose to our Bowling green next year? Is it ok then? Because you are saying as long as we come out 1 point ahead, who cares how crappy we play. Well, when we finally lose one of those and Dan doesn't get bailed out of his dumbass 4th down play call, you same people won't be saying, "well this was just our let down game, I just hate we didn't win". We will all be pissed because we can see it coming based on performances like last week, UAB, Troy, etc.

ETA: allowing your team to feel it's ok to be 3-3, and ok to almost lose to a BG that you should have handled, becomes contagious sometimes. Not saying it will happen to us, but it appears to be a pattern, so I would rather our coaches feel a little heat after a close call like that so they tighten up and don't think it's acceptable. And when there is heat on your ass, you can't allow your team to take a week off against anybody....but that's what happened Saturday.

But that may just be me.

[Political Hack]

our offense lost us the OSU and Auburn games. Defense lost the LSU game. All in all Defense > Offense right now.

[smootness]

And please spare me the "everybody does it" stuff. MSU is not a team that can take weeks off. Alabama does it because they are Alabam, and even when they sleep walk, they beat a CSU team that is better than BG, by 30. Hell, even ole miss slept through their game with SEMO and won it by 3 TD's. It's not that we have a let down here and there, it's that we almost lose the letdown game. It's not like we controlled everything against BG....if they don't drop a wide open pass on 4th down, we probably lose that game.

It doesn't happen, though, because teams are ok with it happening. It happens because they are college students, and humans in general, and it is just pretty much impossible to 'get up' the same way for every single opponent on your schedule. So while I agree that we can't afford it as much as some, it doesn't mean it's necessary correctable. If it begins happening more often, there is an issue; and I would rather it not happen at all...but if it happens only once a year, and you still win, then we're fine. And SEMO is in no way, shape, or form Bowling Green. You may just be saying that Ole Miss picked the right week to have their 'let down', but again, that's not something a team is going to control. I would rather our off week have been against Alcorn so that we wouldn't actually almost lose it, but it happened against Bowling Green. Oh well, we won, we can now move past it and hope it either doesn't happen next year or happens against a worse team.


ETA: allowing your team to feel it's ok to be 3-3, and ok to almost lose to a BG that you should have handled, becomes contagious sometimes. Not saying it will happen to us, but it appears to be a pattern, so I would rather our coaches feel a little heat after a close call like that so they tighten up and don't think it's acceptable. And when there is heat on your ass, you can't allow your team to take a week off against anybody....but that's what happened Saturday.

I don't think we 'took a week off' in any way; just because we didn't show up like we're capable of doesn't mean it's because everyone decided it wasn't a big deal. Sometimes, you just can't seem to get yourself out of whatever funk you're in that game. But I do agree that I don't like our coach saying publicly that 3-3 is fine, or that 'we'll take it'. I don't necessarily want him to berate the team over it, but the message should be that ultimately, we have to be even better. You want to reassure them on some level, but there has to be something to motivate them as well.

ETA: And I don't think the BG game was exactly like the Troy game or the UAB game from '10. We basically got outplayed in those games and luckily were able to do enough in the end to come out on top. I feel like we outplayed BG for most of the game Saturday, we just didn't take advantage enough with points. We had two bad defensive drives that hurt, and should have scored more...but it had the feel of a game we were winning comfortably. I don't think we struggled as badly as the score would indicate. It doesn't make it any more acceptable, but it was just a weird game.

[Boodawg]

I think play calling still is very questionable.

[dawgs]

my problem is that i think we could take a next step with a few tweaks. primarily speeding up the tempo and creative playcalling (like the 1st half against lsu). i know some of yall wanna try to control the clock against elite Ds (bama, florida, lsu most years, etc), but imo we aren't usually going to line up and beat those guys too often on pure talent, so our best option is to try to catch them tired/disorganized by running up tempo. sure there's some drawbacks, but imo for programs of our stature/talent level, it is a net gain in competing against the best programs. i can't think of any mid-tier programs that won big in the last few years that were running a bama-style pace of offense.

[CadaverDawg]

It doesn't happen, though, because teams are ok with it happening. It happens because they are college students, and humans in general, and it is just pretty much impossible to 'get up' the same way for every single opponent on your schedule. So while I agree that we can't afford it as much as some, it doesn't mean it's necessary correctable. If it begins happening more often, there is an issue; and I would rather it not happen at all...but if it happens only once a year, and you still win, then we're fine. And SEMO is in no way, shape, or form Bowling Green. You may just be saying that Ole Miss picked the right week to have their 'let down', but again, that's not something a team is going to control. I would rather our off week have been against Alcorn so that we wouldn't actually almost lose it, but it happened against Bowling Green. Oh well, we won, we can now move past it and hope it either doesn't happen next year or happens against a worse team.



I don't think we 'took a week off' in any way; just because we didn't show up like we're capable of doesn't mean it's because everyone decided it wasn't a big deal. Sometimes, you just can't seem to get yourself out of whatever funk you're in that game. But I do agree that I don't like our coach saying publicly that 3-3 is fine, or that 'we'll take it'. I don't necessarily want him to berate the team over it, but the message should be that ultimately, we have to be even better. You want to reassure them on some level, but there has to be something to motivate them as well.

Very reasonable post.

I guess at the end of the day I see MSU fans, players, coaches, etc, wondering why we don't get respect, or why Ole miss gets more attention, or why people lump us in with Kentucky, etc....And the truth is, because of games like bowling green. If you want to take a step forward and to progress into a different Tier in the SEC, you can't be playing squeakers with Bowling Green on your home field and have anybody take you seriously. And if I sit here and say I'm ok with it, then I feel like I'm saying I'm ok with us never taking that step forward from where we are currently. And I'm just not ok with that. Not saying we will ever be world beaters....but the first step to going from a 6-7 win team to a 8,9,10 win team is to beat everyone handily that you're supposed to beat, and then start competing with teams like A&M, USC,etc for 4 quarters with an occasional upset.

And in my mind, I look at things like this....how can I, or any of our fans, get fired up in hopes of beating a USC, A&M, Auburn, etc, on the road, when we can't even handle Bowling Green at home on homecoming? I know that may be a simple way of viewing it, and that is not my entire thought process on it, but at the same time you rarely see a team that plays like we did Saturday come out and beat an above average SEC team at any point that same season.

So I agree with what you're saying, and this post was simply just a look into my head as a State fan, and how I am not expecting to be a title contender but I feel like I should at least be able to expect a comfortable win over bowlng green at this point.

My opinion is probably far different than most, but I appreciate your level headed response and discussion, Smoot

[Coach34]

We dont get respect simply because we havent taken the steps and won enough games we shouldnt have.

We have failed twice @Auburn and once at home to win games we easily could have vs the Tigers
We didnt come thru in 2009 vs LSU
We didnt come thru vs UPig in 2010
We didnt come thru vs SC in 2011

Mullen has made us solid- but we just havent gotten over that hump yet. It doesnt make him a bad coach, every one of those teams won more games than we did in those seasons- but we just havent gotten enough "good" wins. Georgia, Florida, and OM 2009 is all we have to this point. We have to quit coming up short when we get those chances.

[CadaverDawg]

We dont get respect simply because we havent taken the steps and won enough games we shouldnt have.

We have failed twice @Auburn and once at home to win games we easily could have vs the Tigers
We didnt come thru in 2009 vs LSU
We didnt come thru vs UPig in 2010
We didnt come thru vs SC in 2011

Mullen has made us solid- but we just havent gotten over that hump yet. It doesnt make him a bad coach, every one of those teams won more games than we did in those seasons- but we just havent gotten enough "good" wins. Georgia, Florida, and OM 2009 is all we have to this point. We have to quit coming up short when we get those chances.

I agree, but you can't expect to beat good teams when you're squeaking by bad ones, is what I'm saying.

As bad as I hate to use OM as an example, let's look at them. Do we have the same record right now? Yes. If you asked anyone in America who the better team is right now, who would they say?' Ole Miss. Why? Because as you have said in the past...Perception is Reality. When Ole miss plays a top 10 team in a nail biter, people see that. When we play Bowling green in a nail biter, people see that too. And if you have a brain, it's easy to see which program is closer to beating the big boys right now. Not the team that lost by 30 at home to LSU. The team that almost beat the Heisman winner and top 10 team in prime time.

It's not that I'm saying I don't consider a 1 point win, a win. I do. I'm just saying that at some point if we want to change our perception from "same ole MSU" to something better....we can't be getting in last second games with cupcakes. Again, it's a perception thing. I know we are better than what we showed Saturday night....but what do the recruits that were watching Ole miss compete think when they saw our score scroll across the bottom? We have got to quit thinking that Saturday was ok, in my opinion, because a score is often all people see. And we don't live in a bubble.

ETA: And for the record, I truly think Mullen can be a good coach for us, and stay here a long time. But in order to do so, I don't think you can EVER have a "we're happy to be 3-3" mentality. MSU is a tough job, and in my own way I just don't want to see him become complacent, (as if anything I say can keep him from getting complacent, ha). I want the man to succeed at a high level here, and I fear it is that time for the cycle to turn downwards...so we need Mullen to be really putting the pedal to the metal right now in terms of recruiting and coaching so that we can get through this tough year and our loss of momentum. Otherwise a year like this can start an avalanche. Does that make sense?

[HancockCountyDog]

I agree, but you can't expect to beat good teams when you're squeaking by bad ones, is what I'm saying.

As bad as I hate to use OM as an example, let's look at them. Do we have the same record right now? Yes. If you asked anyone in America who the better team is right now, who would they say?' Ole Miss. Why? Because as you have said in the past...Perception is Reality. When Ole miss plays a top 10 team in a nail biter, people see that. When we play Bowling green in a nail biter, people see that too. And if you have a brain, it's easy to see which program is closer to beating the big boys right now. Not the team that lost by 30 at home to LSU. The team that almost beat the Heisman winner and top 10 team in prime time.

It's not that I'm saying I don't consider a 1 point win, a win. I do. I'm just saying that at some point if we want to change our perception from "same ole MSU" to something better....we can't be getting in last second games with cupcakes. Again, it's a perception thing. I know we are better than what we showed Saturday night....but what do the recruits that were watching Ole miss compete think when they saw our score scroll across the bottom? We have got to quit thinking that Saturday was ok, in my opinion, because a score is often all people see. And we don't live in a bubble.

+10000000

Great post.

[Bothrops]

I think it's a combination of things that prevent us from being just a little better. Poor play calling has been an issue from time to time, but I've noticed other issues like, lack of mental preparedness for games, not giving younger players opportunities to make a difference, lack of leadership at times, and lack of overall emotion recently under Mullen. I think he's tried, but I remember the swagger we used to have under Sherrill's teams in the 90's. We haven't had any of that since Mullen's first two seasons. I know the league is much tougher than those days but it's also beaten us down a lot. To Mullen's credit, he has one of the toughest jobs in the country.

[CadaverDawg]

I think it's a combination of things that prevent us from being just a little better. Poor play calling has been an issue from time to time, but I've noticed other issues like, lack of mental preparedness for games, not giving younger players opportunities to make a difference, lack of leadership at times, and lack of overall emotion recently under Mullen. I think he's tried, but I remember the swagger we used to have under Sherrill's teams in the 90's. We haven't had any of that since Mullen's first two seasons. I know the league is much tougher than those days but it's also beaten us down a lot. To Mullen's credit, he has one of the toughest jobs in the country.

Agreed.

By the way, our rival currently has that Sherrill Swagger you are referring to. You are being polite to say that any Mullen team has had that.

[Political Hack]

we're 1 and 1 against Arky, Auburn, and OM over the last two. It's not the highs that will bring recognition, it's the consistent success of winning 7-9 games a year. Even Boise State got respect when winning that many as did many other mid majors even though they only had a few big time wins during those spans. People tend to forget we've beat Florida, UGA, Tennessee, Auburn, Arkansas, Michigan, and others over the last few years.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

we're 1 and 1 against Arky, Auburn, and OM over the last two. It's not the highs that will bring recognition, it's the consistent success of winning 7-9 games a year. Even Boise State got respect when winning that many as did many other mid majors even though they only had a few big time wins during those spans. People tend to forget we've beat Florida, UGA, Tennessee, Auburn, Arkansas, Michigan, and others over the last few years.
I agree with this. Beating BG by one might hurts a little in the short term. But in the long term, a win is a win

[dawgs]

we're 1 and 1 against Arky, Auburn, and OM over the last two. It's not the highs that will bring recognition, it's the consistent success of winning 7-9 games a year. Even Boise State got respect when winning that many as did many other mid majors even though they only had a few big time wins during those spans. People tend to forget we've beat Florida, UGA, Tennessee, Auburn, Arkansas, Michigan, and others over the last few years.

no one gives us much respect for beating one of the worst florida teams in a decade, one of the worst tenn, aub, and ark teams of all time, a dead man walking coached dumpster fire michigan team in a bowl, and a pretty meh uga team without aj green. the way you earn respect is to beat these teams when they go 11-2 and the only reason they miss a BCS bowl or a title shot is due to msu pulling the upset. not beating these teams when they are mediocre at best.

[BulldogBear]

The thing that is frustrating to me about that is that when we beat those schools, they were "down" or so that is the perception. But they were "down" in some small part at least because we beat them. One more win for us... one less win for them. The math doesn't work for everyone to be a "winner" or have a "good" team. Someone has to lose each game. These schools that usually beat us... don't they?... well you know... beat us when we're "down?" Why if we go 8-4 and Georgia 6-6 is that not just simply seen as the same thing as when they go 8-4 and beat us and we're 6-6? The truth is that they too, beat us because we were "down." Schools are also perceived as "down" because we beat them. That's why I wonder if we would get any more respect at 10-2 than we would at 7-5. If we end up with a better record than those that we beat then we'll have beat them because they were "down." But if we have a win over an equal or better record school (like say we were 10-2 and TAMU was 11-1 with a loss to us) then it'll just be chalked up as a "fluke" or that they played poorly. The only way we'll ever get any credit is to consistently win 7-9 EVERY year and have that 1-3 years a decade that we step up and win 10-12 and be a contender. Only that way will we be taken seriously when we win 8-12 games.

[BulldogBear]

Not all schools have to do that. Credit is assumed. Even Ole Miss with their media allies (read: groupies and wh*res) wouldn't have to win so much to get credit when they do. One or two good years and their wins would not be blown off as flukes or wins over "down" teams.

[dawgs]

The thing that is frustrating to me about that is that when we beat those schools, they were "down" or so that is the perception. But they were "down" in some small part at least because we beat them. One more win for us... one less win for them. The math doesn't work for everyone to be a "winner" or have a "good" team. Someone has to lose each game. These schools that usually beat us... don't they?... well you know... beat us when we're "down?" Why if we go 8-4 and Georgia 6-6 is that not just simply seen as the same thing as when they go 8-4 and beat us and we're 6-6? The truth is that they too, beat us because we were "down." Schools are also perceived as "down" because we beat them. That's why I wonder if we would get any more respect at 10-2 than we would at 7-5. If we end up with a better record than those that we beat then we'll have beat them because they were "down." But if we have a win over an equal or better record school (like say we were 10-2 and TAMU was 11-1 with a loss to us) then it'll just be chalked up as a "fluke" or that they played poorly. The only way we'll ever get any credit is to consistently win 7-9 EVERY year and have that 1-3 years a decade that we step up and win 10-12 and be a contender. Only that way will we be taken seriously when we win 8-12 games.

you're setting up a straw man assuming everyone would consider it a fluke. fact of the matter is 8-4 uga is "down". that's pretty mediocre for them and damn good for us. have we even beaten a team that won 9 games under mullen?

the fact of the matter is that we have beaten these teams when they were down. we all understand how math works. i still am waiting on an example of us beating a contender the way ole miss beat florida back in 2008.

[BulldogBear]

you're setting up a straw man assuming everyone would consider it a fluke. fact of the matter is 8-4 uga is "down". that's pretty mediocre for them and damn good for us. have we even beaten a team that won 9 games under mullen?

the fact of the matter is that we have beaten these teams when they were down. we all understand how math works. i still am waiting on an example of us beating a contender the way ole miss beat florida back in 2008.

But I believe that even if we did we wouldn't get any real love for doing it. As to 8-4 UGA, I get what you're saying. I was just reversing the records. That would be a "down" year for them but the point I'm making is that why does it seem that MSU is the control group in all comparisons? It's almost as if we field the same team every year and every one else just moves up and down around us. We're never given any credit for anything.

[Coach34]

you're setting up a straw man assuming everyone would consider it a fluke. fact of the matter is 8-4 uga is "down". that's pretty mediocre for them and damn good for us. have we even beaten a team that won 9 games under mullen?

the fact of the matter is that we have beaten these teams when they were down. we all understand how math works. i still am waiting on an example of us beating a contender the way ole miss beat florida back in 2008.

In my lifetime, State has beaten #1 Bama in 1980. The only #1 we have ever beaten.

I dont think we've ever beaten another team that finished the season inside the top 10

[Coach34]

Not all schools have to do that. Credit is assumed. Even Ole Miss with their media allies (read: groupies and wh*res) wouldn't have to win so much to get credit when they do. One or two good years and their wins would not be blown off as flukes or wins over "down" teams.

No shit.

Nobody talks about how OM went to the Cotton Bowl in 2009 with an 8-4 (4-4) record. Something Mullen has done twice. They just talk about them going to the Cotton Bowl in 2009

[Political Hack]

no one gives us much respect for beating one of the worst florida teams in a decade, one of the worst tenn, aub, and ark teams of all time, a dead man walking coached dumpster fire michigan team in a bowl, and a pretty meh uga team without aj green. the way you earn respect is to beat these teams when they go 11-2 and the only reason they miss a BCS bowl or a title shot is due to msu pulling the upset. not beating these teams when they are mediocre at best.

you totally whiffed on the purpose of my post. it has nothing to do with one game. It has to do with sustained success, not upsetting a big name team one time.

[Behrdawg]

We need an upset. Its been too long and it's time for Mullen to step up to the plate

[dawgs]

But I believe that even if we did we wouldn't get any real love for doing it. As to 8-4 UGA, I get what you're saying. I was just reversing the records. That would be a "down" year for them but the point I'm making is that why does it seem that MSU is the control group in all comparisons? It's almost as if we field the same team every year and every one else just moves up and down around us. We're never given any credit for anything.

i thought we got a lot of credit in 2010. we just didn't maintain it. but more to the point, we don't control the group in all comparisons, it's a fact that when we beat the big names, it happens when they are somewhere between bad and mediocre, and rarely when they are winning 9+ games.

[dawgs]

you totally whiffed on the purpose of my post. it has nothing to do with one game. It has to do with sustained success, not upsetting a big name team one time.

no, i'm saying that you point out all these big names we beat in the last few years like people are going to be impressed. the avg CFB fan is a bit savvier than that though and realize those big names weren't actually good teams. i want to beat the big names when they are down AND occasionally beat the big names when they are winning 10 games. i want to knock someone out of the title race, not beat a 3-9 tenn/aub/ark team and point out that we've beaten some big names in the last few years.

[SheltonChoked]

It's better than ACTUALLY losing to a cupcake.

[Political Hack]

no, i'm saying that you point out all these big names we beat in the last few years like people are going to be impressed. the avg CFB fan is a bit savvier than that though and realize those big names weren't actually good teams. i want to beat the big names when they are down AND occasionally beat the big names when they are winning 10 games. i want to knock someone out of the title race, not beat a 3-9 tenn/aub/ark team and point out that we've beaten some big names in the last few years.

I agree it would help to have beaten 2010 Auburn or Bama, etc... but the most important thing is sustained success. Continuous bowls, consecutive winning seasons, being a legitimate contender each and every year, winning 7-8 in down years and 9-12 in good years. That's how you gain the respect of people.

Look at VaTech, Michigan over the last decade, Georgia, etc... They get much more respect than Arkansas even though they beat some big boys and went to the Sugar Bowl a few years ago. Wins fade quickly. It's about consistency.

[thunderclap]

It's the utter lack of second half production that worries everybody. For some reason, we have no clue after halftime. That's why I'd love to see us stick with Dak and just go into full spread option mode, get an identify and consistency in what we're doing, and let it ride.

[Political Hack]

It's the utter lack of second half production that worries everybody. For some reason, we have no clue after halftime. That's why I'd love to see us stick with Dak and just go into full spread option mode, get an identify and consistency in what we're doing, and let it ride.

3rd down is like kryptonite to Dak. That's been our biggest problem in the 2nd half... that and missing FGs.

[Barking 13]

3rd down is like kryptonite to Dak. That's been our biggest problem in the 2nd half... that and missing FGs.

I see(n) what you did.... :cool:

[CadaverDawg]

3rd down is like kryptonite to Dak. That's been our biggest problem in the 2nd half... that and missing FGs.

3rd down is kryptonite to Mullen IMO...not necessarily Dak.

[smootness]

i thought we got a lot of credit in 2010. we just didn't maintain it. but more to the point, we don't control the group in all comparisons, it's a fact that when we beat the big names, it happens when they are somewhere between bad and mediocre, and rarely when they are winning 9+ games.

Ole Miss won 8 games in 2009; had we lost to them, they would have won 9. And this is the point that he's getting at, by beating a team that we otherwise lost to, it would have meant that team ended up with one more loss and one fewer win, and people would downgrade it somewhat. If we had lost to Ole Miss in 09, people would say 'That was a 9-win team; if we had pulled that out, that would have been one of the big wins'. But instead, we actually did beat them, so they only went 8-4, and they're seen as 'mediocre'.

The question would be, would you see beating a team that finished 9-3 that we lost to as bigger than the Ole Miss win in 09? Because they are the exact same thing.

I've heard people bring up Croom's win over Florida as proof that even a coach like that can pull it off every once in a while. Well, that Florida team finished 7-4; they were just ranked higher when we played them. Mullen beat an 8-5 Florida team, but people already knew they weren't that great when we beat them, so somehow it's not considered as big of a win.

[Political Hack]

Ole Miss won 8 games in 2009; had we lost to them, they would have won 9. And this is the point that he's getting at, by beating a team that we otherwise lost to, it would have meant that team ended up with one more loss and one fewer win, and people would downgrade it somewhat. If we had lost to Ole Miss in 09, people would say 'That was a 9-win team; if we had pulled that out, that would have been one of the big wins'. But instead, we actually did beat them, so they only went 8-4, and they're seen as 'mediocre'.

The question would be, would you see beating a team that finished 9-3 that we lost to as bigger than the Ole Miss win in 09? Because they are the exact same thing.

I've heard people bring up Croom's win over Florida as proof that even a coach like that can pull it off every once in a while. Well, that Florida team finished 7-4; they were just ranked higher when we played them. Mullen beat an 8-5 Florida team, but people already knew they weren't that great when we beat them, so somehow it's not considered as big of a win.

+2

[MarketingBully01]

Yeah, Smootness is on fire today. Great posting. Agree 1000% with Smootness.

[dawgs]

Ole Miss won 8 games in 2009; had we lost to them, they would have won 9. And this is the point that he's getting at, by beating a team that we otherwise lost to, it would have meant that team ended up with one more loss and one fewer win, and people would downgrade it somewhat. If we had lost to Ole Miss in 09, people would say 'That was a 9-win team; if we had pulled that out, that would have been one of the big wins'. But instead, we actually did beat them, so they only went 8-4, and they're seen as 'mediocre'.

The question would be, would you see beating a team that finished 9-3 that we lost to as bigger than the Ole Miss win in 09? Because they are the exact same thing.

I've heard people bring up Croom's win over Florida as proof that even a coach like that can pull it off every once in a while. Well, that Florida team finished 7-4; they were just ranked higher when we played them. Mullen beat an 8-5 Florida team, but people already knew they weren't that great when we beat them, so somehow it's not considered as big of a win.

a 9-3 ole miss in 2009 isn't exactly 9-3 bama in 2011, and from a national respect lever, no W over ole miss will ever garner as much respect as a W over lsu/bama. but yes, when we beat a team, that's 1 less W for them (matth, how does it work?), however, i want the beat a team that despite the L to us still is capable of going 10-1 or 9-2 or 11-0 in the rest of their games, not a team that can merely go 8-3 in the remainder of their games. i mean, you can make the argument that if every team we beat won all the rest of their games then they'd be considered big wins. at the end of the day there are gonna be opportunities for us to beat teams that finish with 10+ Ws and we can't even come close outside of 2010.

[Coach34]

a 9-3 ole miss in 2009 isn't exactly 9-3 bama in 2011, and from a national respect lever, no W over ole miss will ever garner as much respect as a W over lsu/bama. .

So, basically- you want a win over Bama/LSU? Well, so does everybody else in the ****ing country- and few people can do it. It takes a top 10 team to beat them these days. So, you want Mullen fired because we arent a top 10 level team?

[CadaverDawg]

So, basically- you want a win over Bama/LSU? Well, so does everybody else in the ****ing country- and few people can do it. It takes a top 10 team to beat them these days. So, you want Mullen fired because we arent a top 10 level team?

Yea, we ain't beating those two. However, being within 30 points would be nice.

[dawgs]

So, basically- you want a win over Bama/LSU? Well, so does everybody else in the ****ing country- and few people can do it. It takes a top 10 team to beat them these days. So, you want Mullen fired because we arent a top 10 level team?

or florida/uga/a&m/aub/ark/usc when they win 10 games, my bad for not including them all or an "/etc." on the end of it, i assumed it was understood what i meant. ole miss beat future national champion florida in gainesville in 2008, so don't act like it can't be done. iowa st beat okie st when they were #2 in the country and in line to play for a title. stanford beat usc in LA as like 40 point underdogs. these type Ws don't happen often (Ls period won't happen often when teams go 10-2 or better), but they do happen, and we are far far far too long overdue for a couple.

and like cadaverdawg said, just making it a tight game would be huge for our perception among recruits and the CFB world. we haven't kept it close with a 10+ W team since 2010.

imo you can rig the schedule to get somewhere between 6-8 Ws most seasons with a pretty mediocre team, but no one views you as legit until you start regularly hanging with the better teams and occasionally pulling off the upset over a legit top 10 team that is still a top 10 team at the end of the year despite losing to you.

no one is saying that if we pulled a major upset and went 5-7 that we would be viewed better than if we regularly went bowling, we are saying that regularly going to mid tier to low tier bowls without ever truly threatening the top tier programs is kinda hollow and the media/fans/recruits quickly catch on.

[Coach34]

we haven't kept it close with a 10+ W team since 2010.

wrong- lost 14-12 to SC in 2011 when they went 11-2 and finished 8th in the country

[dawgs]

wrong- lost 14-12 to SC in 2011 when they went 11-2 and finished 8th in the country

only at msu do we get fired up for almost beating a top 10 team last in 2011 instead on 2010. my point still stands. we get multiple opportunities per season against these type teams and since early 2011, we haven't been close to a threat.

[Coach34]

or florida/uga/a&m/aub/ark/usc when they win 10 games, my bad for not including them all or an "/etc." on the end of it, i assumed it was understood what i meant. ole miss beat future national champion florida in gainesville in 2008, so don't act like it can't be done. iowa st beat okie st when they were #2 in the country and in line to play for a title. stanford beat usc in LA as like 40 point underdogs. these type Ws don't happen often (Ls period won't happen often when teams go 10-2 or better), but they do happen, and we are far far far too long overdue for a couple.

and like cadaverdawg said, just making it a tight game would be huge for our perception among recruits and the CFB world. we haven't kept it close with a 10+ W team since 2010.

imo you can rig the schedule to get somewhere between 6-8 Ws most seasons with a pretty mediocre team, but no one views you as legit until you start regularly hanging with the better teams and occasionally pulling off the upset over a legit top 10 team that is still a top 10 team at the end of the year despite losing to you.

no one is saying that if we pulled a major upset and went 5-7 that we would be viewed better than if we regularly went bowling, we are saying that regularly going to mid tier to low tier bowls without ever truly threatening the top tier programs is kinda hollow and the media/fans/recruits quickly catch on.

10 win teams rarely lose to anybody but other 9-10 win teams. I cant remember a 10 win team recently that lost to anybody that didnt win at least 9 games