Bo Bounds: Would Hud Be 5-0 Right Now?

[TrapGame]

The consensus with Bo and his producers was yes. He runs a power spread similar to Mullen. This team would be the most talented he's ever coached. He would run AW and KH hard. He wouldn't be asking Fitz to be Joe Montana.

They also thought Nutt, Miles, Freeze and Mullen would be 5-0 right now with this level of talent.

Can't say that I really disagreed with anything they said. It was about adapting to what you have. Bo doesn't understand the stubbornness coming out of Moorhead. Good coaches adapt and do it quickly.

[msstate7]

This whole fanbase will hate joe Moorhead if he loses the next 2. I don't think he'd ever recover

[basedog]

I know the season looks bad and may be bad the rest of the year but I've never seen a Coach get as much heat at Msu in year one as Moorhead. I have said several times I don't like what I have seen but it's year one.

I sure hope we beat Auburn to silent the crowd a little. I'm thinking it will be a close game because Auburn has issues as well.

[msstate7]

I know the season looks bad and may be bad the rest of the year but I've never seen a Coach get as much heat at Msu in year one as Moorhead. I have said several times I don't like what I have seen but it's year one.

I sure hope we beat Auburn to silent the crowd a little. I'm thinking it will be a close game because Auburn has issues as well.

No state coach has ever taken over a team this talented. Joe fed the expectations.... know your ring size, fitz Heisman talk, no one has ever picked this offense up so quick, etc. He deserves every bit of the criticism

[ShotgunDawg]

I agree. I think Hud would be 5-0 right now.

We just have to hope that Moorhead has a higher future ceiling.

It's wild how much of a learning curve we've had and how Moorhead's offense requires a completely different mentality and identity than the previous offense along with these coaches not understanding the SEC.

I wonder if Cohen would've hired Moorhead if he knew the learning curve would be so steep?

[msstate7]

I agree. I think Hud would be 5-0 right now.

We just have to hope that Moorhead has a higher future ceiling.

It's wild how much of a learning curve we've had and how Moorhead's offense requires a completely different mentality and identity than the previous offense along with these coaches not understanding the SEC.

I wonder if Cohen would've hired Moorhead if he knew the learning curve would be so steep?

Hell no. Cohen had a chance to be the AD that hired a coach to get us back to Atlanta. Now we looking at Birmingham

[stalkingpoon]

Better question would be:

What coaches would NOT be 5-0 right now?

[civildawg]

That?s because Moorhead has ruined the most talented team in decades

[Todd4State]

I know the season looks bad and may be bad the rest of the year but I've never seen a Coach get as much heat at Msu in year one as Moorhead. I have said several times I don't like what I have seen but it's year one.

I sure hope we beat Auburn to silent the crowd a little. I'm thinking it will be a close game because Auburn has issues as well.

I agree. He loses to Kentucky- a 5-0 Kentucky with wins over us, Florida, and South Carolina- and our fans have just totally left the bandwagon. It's odd.

[Tbonewannabe]

This whole fanbase will hate joe Moorhead if he loses the next 2. I don't think he'd ever recover

I will agree that if we continue to look like Croomcoast 2.0 and we lose then people will be pissed. I will say that we all of the sudden have Bama complex where we are supposed to beat 2 top ten teams. The only time Mullen won against teams like that was in 2014 with Dak and a shitload of NFL Defensive players.

[ShotgunDawg]

I know the season looks bad and may be bad the rest of the year but I've never seen a Coach get as much heat at Msu in year one as Moorhead. I have said several times I don't like what I have seen but it's year one.

I sure hope we beat Auburn to silent the crowd a little. I'm thinking it will be a close game because Auburn has issues as well.

He deserves every bit of criticism he's gotten. I think he can be good here m, but at very least he completely monkey 17ed the evaluation of this team and it's players.

Feels like the new staff was extremely arrogant and didn't quite respect what Mullen did here

[bluelightstar]

I agree. He loses to Kentucky- a 5-0 Kentucky with wins over us, Florida, and South Carolina- and our fans have just totally left the bandwagon. It's odd.

Because (1) Kentucky is not good, (2) we didn't lose a competitive game, it was 3 TDs, and (3) we scored 7 points and had 45 yards in the second half. And the offense was not fixed in the next game; if anything, it was worse.

[Tbonewannabe]

Hell no. Cohen had a chance to be the AD that hired a coach to get us back to Atlanta. Now we looking at Birmingham

Cohen rolled the dice trying to get us a coach who could get us to Atlanta. Everyone accepts that Mullen would never get us there. Moorhead's offense, when it works, is the type of offense that gives you a chance to beat Bama. Whether Moorhead figures it out or gets let go, Cohen attempted to get the coach.

You wouldn't think that the 2 time Offensive coordinator of the year would have this much trouble.

[Tbonewannabe]

Because (1) Kentucky is not good, (2) we didn't lose a competitive game, it was 3 TDs, and (3) we scored 7 points and had 45 yards in the second half. And the offense was not fixed in the next game; if anything, it was worse.

UK is a good team, probably at least as good as we were last year. The game was competitive until the last few minutes when the defense wore down. If you want to say we weren't offensively competitive then I agree.

Right now we have zero confidence on offense. Mitchell dropping the TD pass broke their back.

[Really Clark?]

Miles and Nutt? Good grief. And if you thought what Moorehead is doing doesn’t fit our personnel, Miles would be a disaster

Hud runs a spread but his philosophy and designs depart from what Mullen does is several areas. He also prefers passing and had numerous games of less than 100 yards rushing and throwing it 30+ times.

[basedog]

I agree. He loses to Kentucky- a 5-0 Kentucky with wins over us, Florida, and South Carolina- and our fans have just totally left the bandwagon. It's odd.

Kentucky is a really good team, Moorhead has time and for the so call experts on Msu sports thinking he will be fired after one year are dreamers. Ain't gonna happen unless he parties at a sorority house or the FBI raids his house and finds 100 pounds of cocaine.

[basedog]

He deserves every bit of criticism he's gotten. I think he can be good here m, but at very least he completely monkey 17ed the evaluation of this team and it's players.

Feels like the new staff was extremely arrogant and didn't quite respect what Mullen did here

Dude, yes he deserves criticism, but I didn't get the feel Moorhead or staff had any kind of arrogant attitude especially against Mullen. Now ED arrogant attitude toward Mullen yes indeed.

[basedog]

No state coach has ever taken over a team this talented. Joe fed the expectations.... know your ring size, fitz Heisman talk, no one has ever picked this offense up so quick, etc. He deserves every bit of the criticism

Guess what 7, what you said is exactly what the fans want and expect plus they have been saying, so it goes both ways. It's game 5, it looks bad but it can change, beating Auburn would be a huge step.

[ShotgunDawg]

Dude, yes he deserves criticism, but I didn't get the feel Moorhead or staff had any kind of arrogant attitude especially against Mullen. Now ED arrogant attitude toward Mullen yes indeed.

He's certainly not arrogant with the way he talks, but his actions say different. Perhaps foolish would be a better word.

You don't attempt to fix what isn't broke. There is a difference between "fixing" and "transitioning".

MSU's offense didn't need to be fixed. It needed to transition. Fixing something requires immediate change, while transitioning something means gradually evolving something.

[BrunswickDawg]

He deserves every bit of criticism he's gotten. I think he can be good here m, but at very least he completely monkey 17ed the evaluation of this team and it's players.

Feels like the new staff was extremely arrogant and didn't quite respect what Mullen did here

There is a difference in criticism and concern about production, and raving like loons about firing a guy 5 games into the season.
And throw Nutt and Freeze out of this conversation completely. Nutt has been out of the game 10 years and what he would have done with this type team is irrelevant .
Freeze never ran the ball with any real success. So what would he do with an offense that couldn't pass and had no top end WR talent?

And Hud. A guy that couldn't win at U La La would have us at 5-0? The Hud myth will never die. And Bobby Wallace should have replaced The Kang in '96.

Now Mullen, he probably does have us at 5-0, 4-1 at worst. Personally, I don't think he beats Kentucky - but that is arguable. What I do know, is that Dan would likely lose 1 of AU or LSU plus Bama, and possibly all 3. He couldn't beat teams with elite defenses, and he wouldn't do it with this team for the same reason that Moorhead has failed so far - elite defenses shut down our running game and force us to pass the ball and we don't have the talent on the OL, the QB or at WR to do that against top line defenses.

[bluelightstar]

Now Mullen, he probably does have us at 5-0, 4-1 at worst. Personally, I don't think he beats Kentucky - but that is arguable. What I do know, is that Dan would likely lose 1 of AU or LSU plus Bama, and possibly all 3. He couldn't beat teams with elite defenses, and he wouldn't do it with this team for the same reason that Moorhead has failed so far - elite defenses shut down our running game and force us to pass the ball and we don't have the talent on the OL, the QB or at WR to do that against top line defenses.

So instead of not being able to move the ball against elite defenses, we now can't move the ball against even moderately competent ones. 400 yards and 13 points combined in 2 SEC games.

[BrunswickDawg]

So instead of not being able to move the ball against elite defenses, we now can't move the ball against even moderately competent ones. 400 yards and 13 points combined in 2 SEC games.

Kentucky - the #3 scoring defense is the country is moderately competent? Our arrogance about Kentucky if laughable.
UF - #9 in scoring defense - Grantham again proving why he is one of the best in the country.

So, which one of those defenses aren't playing at an elite level right now? And justify it without saying "they are only ranked so high because our offense is so bad"

[smootness]

Better question would be:

What coaches would NOT be 5-0 right now?

Exactly. There are a lot of coaches who would be 5-0 right now with this team, which is precisely why it is so upsetting. Everyone keeps saying we're still 3-2 and the 2 losses are to good teams, but the bottom line is that most coaches would have us at 5-0 right now. This has not been the tough part of our schedule.

[Cooterpoot]

Why do y'all listen to Bo Bounds? He's a damn joke.

[smootness]

Anyone who thinks Mullen loses to Kentucky with this team is insane.

[ShotgunDawg]

There is a difference in criticism and concern about production, and raving like loons about firing a guy 5 games into the season.
And throw Nutt and Freeze out of this conversation completely. Nutt has been out of the game 10 years and what he would have done with this type team is irrelevant .
Freeze never ran the ball with any real success. So what would he do with an offense that couldn't pass and had no top end WR talent?

And Hud. A guy that couldn't win at U La La would have us at 5-0? The Hud myth will never die. And Bobby Wallace should have replaced The Kang in '96.

Now Mullen, he probably does have us at 5-0, 4-1 at worst. Personally, I don't think he beats Kentucky - but that is arguable. What I do know, is that Dan would likely lose 1 of AU or LSU plus Bama, and possibly all 3. He couldn't beat teams with elite defenses, and he wouldn't do it with this team for the same reason that Moorhead has failed so far - elite defenses shut down our running game and force us to pass the ball and we don't have the talent on the OL, the QB or at WR to do that against top line defenses.

I never said we should fire Moorhead. I'm a long way from that, but I better see real improvement that tells me what we are seeing is growing pains rather than ineptness

[bluelightstar]

Kentucky - the #3 scoring defense is the country is moderately competent? Our arrogance about Kentucky if laughable.
UF - #9 in scoring defense - Grantham again proving why he is one of the best in the country.

So, which one of those defenses aren't playing at an elite level right now? And justify it without saying "they are only ranked so high because our offense is so bad"

Kentucky has played the #92 offense (Florida), #51 offense (USC), #52 offense (MSU), #129 offense (Central Mich.), and an FCS team. So yes, I do believe their stats are quite inflated -- just like our offensive stats were inflated through 3 games. We can revisit this if they slow down Texas A&M.

Same deal with Florida. They've played #102 (Tennessee), #52 (State), #70 (Kentucky), #64 (Colorado State), and an FCS team.

[basedog]

He's certainly not arrogant with the way he talks, but his actions say different. Perhaps foolish would be a better word.

You don't attempt to fix what isn't broke. There is a difference between "fixing" and "transitioning".

MSU's offense didn't need to be fixed. It needed to transition. Fixing something requires immediate change, while transitioning something means gradually evolving something.

Moorhead brought his system as you know, yes he needed to adjust to what works and hopefully moving forward things will be better. He made a mistake but bringing his system isn't surprising, every coach does.

Again, I don't like what I saw, but I ain't for firing him yet!

[smootness]

Kentucky - the #3 scoring defense is the country is moderately competent? Our arrogance about Kentucky if laughable.
UF - #9 in scoring defense - Grantham again proving why he is one of the best in the country.

So, which one of those defenses aren't playing at an elite level right now? And justify it without saying "they are only ranked so high because our offense is so bad"

You realize that a large part of their rankings being that high (aside from not playing good offenses) is that they completely shut us down?

If we score 20 more points against UK (still not enough to win), they suddenly drop to the #15 scoring defense. If we put up 200 more yards against them, they drop to #28 there.

If we score 20 more points against UF, they drop to #22 in the country in scoring defense. And if we put up 200 more yards, they drop to #45 there.

[Commercecomet24]

Why do y'all listen to Bo Bounds? He's a damn joke.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cooterpoot again.

[BrunswickDawg]

I never said we should fire Moorhead. I'm a long way from that, but I better see real improvement that tells me what we are seeing is growing pains rather than ineptness

Yeah - didn't mean to make it sound like you specifically. Was meaning to be more general. And I agree. I'm in wait and see mode.

[TrapGame]

Yeah - didn't mean to make it sound like you specifically. Was meaning to be more general. And I agree. I'm in wait and see mode.

I want to see improvement, fast. Moorhead came in with a pretty good resume. I did not expect to see this shit show on offense. And it's troubling.

If we see dramatic improvement over the next few weeks I'll back away from the ledge. But, if we are still stumbling around and totally inept in the Egg Bowl this administration may have a very hard decision to make.

[fader2103]

Because (1) Kentucky is not good, (2) we didn't lose a competitive game, it was 3 TDs, and (3) we scored 7 points and had 45 yards in the second half. And the offense was not fixed in the next game; if anything, it was worse.

You are gonna be surprised when they beat TAMU this week.

[BhamDawg]

Kentucky - the #3 scoring defense is the country is moderately competent? Our arrogance about Kentucky if laughable.
UF - #9 in scoring defense - Grantham again proving why he is one of the best in the country.

So, which one of those defenses aren't playing at an elite level right now? And justify it without saying "they are only ranked so high because our offense is so bad"

I just went back and looked at all the final scores in the the Mullen era. There was only one two-game stretch where we scored as few points as we have the last two weeks, it was last year against Georgia (31-3) & Auburn (49-10). His next lowest two-game total was in 2012 when we played Alabama & A&M, we scored 20.

So, are you saying Kentucky & Florida are two of the four best defenses we have seen in 10 years?

Quit giving excuses for this man, his offense is a damn train wreck right now and I don?t think he can admit it.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Kentucky - the #3 scoring defense is the country is moderately competent? Our arrogance about Kentucky if laughable.
UF - #9 in scoring defense - Grantham again proving why he is one of the best in the country.

So, which one of those defenses aren't playing at an elite level right now? And justify it without saying "they are only ranked so high because our offense is so bad"

Weird that no one has responded to this.

[smootness]

Weird that no one has responded to this.

I clearly did. He tried to shut down part of the answer by saying you can't use it, but that's the reality - we are the worst performance so far against either defense. We are dragging those numbers down, period.

[bluelightstar]

Weird that no one has responded to this.

There have been 2 responses to that...

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Weird that no one has responded to this.


I clearly did. He tried to shut down part of the answer by saying you can't use it, but that's the reality - we are the worst performance so far against either defense. We are dragging those numbers down, period.


There have been 2 responses to that...

My bad. If people keep replying to each other mobile view just quits showing the posts. Had to go to full site to see

[War Machine Dawg]

Anyone who thinks Mullen loses to Kentucky with this team is insane.

I'll be the first to stick my hand in the air and say I was flat wrong about UK before we played them. They're legit good and are going to make a bowl easily, imo. They should beat Vandy and TN and they'll have a chance against Mizzou. Plus they still have MTSU and Louisville. They'll probably win 8 or 9 before it's all said and done.

That said, UF is exactly who I thought they were. A team that's decent on defense and bad on offense. They had no business coming into our house and winning, much less making us look like a clown show on offense. That's why people are so upset. I think we'd be in a much different frame of mind this week had Moorhead shown any growth and beaten FL. Instead, we look like we're going to struggle winning 6 in a year we should've won a minimum of 9.

[basedog]

If winning ugly is good I'm all in! To say Kentucky isn't a good team is wrong, they are a top 25 team and I say that is good regardless of who they have beaten. After all it is the Sec and beating any team in our conference is a plus.

[BrunswickDawg]

I just went back and looked at all the final scores in the the Mullen era. There was only one two-game stretch where we scored as few points as we have the last two weeks, it was last year against Georgia (31-3) & Auburn (49-10). His next lowest two-game total was in 2012 when we played Alabama & A&M, we scored 20.

So, are you saying Kentucky & Florida are two of the four best defenses we have seen in 10 years?

Quit giving excuses for this man, his offense is a damn train wreck right now and I don?t think he can admit it.

Why is that so impossible to think that UF - who had an elite defense 2 years ago (#6 scoring D in country in '16) that quit on a dead shark coach in '17 - couldn't get back to a very high level with arguably a top 5 DC?
Grantham did the same thing for us last year. He took us from #93 to #26. UF has moved (so far) from #69 to #9.

And Kentucky - brought back 8 starters on defense from last year - two of whom (Allen and Mike Edwards) could have gone pro last year. It is a Senior laden defense that has improved every year under Stoops. Are they elite? Time will tell - but they have played at that level through 3 SEC games.

And again - I recognize that our offense is bad right now. I'm not claiming it isn't. But, we have played 2 teams that should be getting more credit then many are giving them.

[msstate7]

Why is that so impossible to think that UF - who had an elite defense 2 years ago (#6 scoring D in country in '16) that quit on a dead shark coach in '17 - couldn't get back to a very high level with arguably a top 5 DC?
Grantham did the same thing for us last year. He took us from #93 to #26. UF has moved (so far) from #69 to #9.

And Kentucky - brought back 8 starters on defense from last year - two of whom (Allen and Mike Edwards) could have gone pro last year. It is a Senior laden defense that has improved every year under Stoops. Are they elite? Time will tell - but they have played at that level through 3 SEC games.

And again - I recognize that our offense is bad right now. I'm not claiming it isn't. But, we have played 2 teams that should be getting more credit then many are giving them.

They both held us to 200 yards of offense. 2011 LSU is the 2nd best defense I've ever seen, and they gave up 260 a game. Florida and Kentucky both had their best defensive games this season vs us, and both have played an FCS team. You're really gonna throw your shoulder out if you keep reaching to help Moorhead. This offense is an abomination before God, so far... hopefully it changes Saturday

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I'll be the first to stick my hand in the air and say I was flat wrong about UK before we played them. They're legit good and are going to make a bowl easily, imo. They should beat Vandy and TN and they'll have a chance against Mizzou. Plus they still have MTSU and Louisville. They'll probably win 8 or 9 before it's all said and done.

That said, UF is exactly who I thought they were. A team that's decent on defense and bad on offense. They had no business coming into our house and winning, much less making us look like a clown show on offense. That's why people are so upset. I think we'd be in a much different frame of mind this week had Moorhead shown any growth and beaten FL. Instead, we look like we're going to struggle winning 6 in a year we should've won a minimum of 9.

I don't know where the loses for Uk would be... the best teams they play are 1) UGA, 2) A&M/Mizzou, 3)A&M/Mizzou, 4) Florida, 5) State/SC, 6)State/SC.

They've beaten 4 5 and 6 all by double digits, I think they win one of A&M or Mizzou to get to 10 wins. I definitely don't see 4 loses from here on out

[StateDawg44]

They both held us to 200 yards of offense. 2011 LSU is the 2nd best defense I've ever seen, and they gave up 260 a game. Florida and Kentucky both had their best defensive games this season vs us, and both have played an FCS team. You're really gonna throw your shoulder out if you keep reaching to help Moorhead. This offense is an abomination before God, so far... hopefully it changes Saturday

Guess you didn't see where he acknowledged the offense is bad right now and wasn't defending that.

Kinda hard to deny the stats of UF's and KY's defensive numbers this year. They aren't just crazy unbelievable or anything. No one is claiming that. It's not like he is making any of the numbers up. They may be a tad bit padded by how shotty we played them but they still had an answer for everything they've faced. That padding isn't helping them out that much.

Both those teams are currently put together as a whole better than we are right now. If you disagree you are in denial.

[msstate7]

Both those teams are currently put together as a whole better than we are right now. If you disagree you are in denial.

So wait, you think Florida and Kentucky are more talented than us? Good God

[bluelightstar]

So wait, you think Florida and Kentucky are more talented than us? Good God

Incredible how this has gone from "10-win season" to "what do you expect Moorhead to do with this crappy group of players".

[msstate7]

Incredible how this has gone from "10-win season" to "what do you expect Moorhead to do with this crappy group of players".

Pretty pathetic

[msstate7]

Kentucky is a poor man's 2017 state team. They wanna run and play defense. They beat our ass by being what we used to be

[smootness]

Both those teams are currently playing better than we are right now. If you disagree you are in denial.

FIFY

And that should embarrass us all.

[StateDawg44]

So wait, you think Florida and Kentucky are more talented than us? Good God

Talent is not a word I used once in my post. But I did say, they are put together better than we are. Meaning, when it comes to the product on the field, they are clicking and playing better than us. They are clearly better than us at our current state. You're playing shoulda, coulda. Who cares about what we could've been? In 2 years no one is gonna be saying, "Yeah but what about the amount of talent that 2018 team had and squandered?" except you still probably. If anything that just sounds dumb. An AR-15 is a better gun in a long range gun fight than a pistol, but if it's jammed and operator can't unjam it then it might as well be a banana. We are said banana and not the working AR-15 you are pretending to be.

Whatever the reason you want to come up with, they both beat us fair and square and that is why we have a L next to those games. You can't argue with that.

Also I'm not saying our players have gone from world changers to garbage. The whole thing is we aren't playing smart football. Has nothing to do with the talent whether it's there or not. I definitely believe it is there.

[TrapGame]

Incredible how this has gone from "10-win season" to "what do you expect Moorhead to do with this crappy group of players".

From 9-3 to possibly 3-9. But it's the players. You just gotta shake your head.

[MetEdDawg]

The question shouldn't be would Hud be 5-0. The question is would Hud ever get us past where Mullen did.

We are all asking the wrong question and thinking short term. Yes it sucks this season hasn't turned out like we wanted. But the question we are supposed to be asking is will we surpass what Mullen did under Moorhead. The change was made with the long term in mind even though we had a talented team this year.

The question is can Moorhead take us to being a consistent contender which is something Mullen couldn't do. Ask yourself this. Would you sacrifice your expectations for this year if you knew from 2019 to 2023 we would never win fewer than 9 games?

[msstate7]

The question shouldn't be would Hud be 5-0. The question is would Hud ever get us past where Mullen did.

We are all asking the wrong question and thinking short term. Yes it sucks this season hasn't turned out like we wanted. But the question we are supposed to be asking is will we surpass what Mullen did under Moorhead. The change was made with the long term in mind even though we had a talented team this year.

The question is can Moorhead take us to being a consistent contender which is something Mullen couldn't do. Ask yourself this. Would you sacrifice your expectations for this year if you knew from 2019 to 2023 we would never win fewer than 9 games?

We will not be a consistent contender in the sec west for the foreseeable future.

[Tbonewannabe]

We will not be a consistent contender in the sec west for the foreseeable future.

So I am assuming you are on the wagon of JoMo's offense doesn't work in the SEC no matter the players or execution? I am not going to go through the film but a lot of times it seems like one player is screwing up the play and it is a different player almost on every play. So it seems like we just can't get every player to execute at the same time whether it is one guy on the Oline missing a block or a WR not catching the ball or a QB not recognizing a safety blitz.

So is it JoMo's offense won't work or is it these coaches can't get the players to execute the plays correctly?

[TrapGame]

The question is can Moorhead take us to being a consistent contender which is something Mullen couldn't do. Ask yourself this. Would you sacrifice your expectations for this year if you knew from 2019 to 2023 we would never win fewer than 9 games?

Let me pose this question: If we still can't pour piss out of a boot with this offense by the Egg Bowl what makes you think we never win fewer than 9 games starting next year?

[msstate7]

So I am assuming you are on the wagon of JoMo's offense doesn't work in the SEC no matter the players or execution? I am not going to go through the film but a lot of times it seems like one player is screwing up the play and it is a different player almost on every play. So it seems like we just can't get every player to execute at the same time whether it is one guy on the Oline missing a block or a WR not catching the ball or a QB not recognizing a safety blitz.

So is it JoMo's offense won't work or is it these coaches can't get the players to execute the plays correctly?

Unless we hire urban Meyer or Nick Saban, we won't be a year-in, year-our sec contender. If we hire the next saban/Meyer, they'll leave for a blue blood. We are the poorest program in the west, and we aren't gonna consistently compete with programs that have untold more advantages. We should shoot for contending every 4-5 years by continuing the RSing

[testuser]

No state coach has ever taken over a team this talented. Joe fed the expectations.... know your ring size, fitz Heisman talk, no one has ever picked this offense up so quick, etc. He deserves every bit of the criticism

The 'talent' on the team was overblown from the beginning.

[msstate7]

The 'talent' on the team was overblown from the beginning.

It was overblown by all state fans, media, nfl scouts, and even our current staff then. Now this could be true, or more likely, our staff just can't use the talent in a way that fits them. There's another explanation too... Mullen was just that damn good to win an "untalented" team

[Dawg61]

I know the season looks bad and may be bad the rest of the year but I've never seen a Coach get as much heat at Msu in year one as Moorhead. I have said several times I don't like what I have seen but it's year one.

I sure hope we beat Auburn to silent the crowd a little. I'm thinking it will be a close game because Auburn has issues as well.

I think Moorhead's personality and demeanor make him more susceptible to the keyboard warriors.

[Tbonewannabe]

Unless we hire urban Meyer or Nick Saban, we won't be a year-in, year-our sec contender. If we hire the next saban/Meyer, they'll leave for a blue blood. We are the poorest program in the west, and we aren't gonna consistently compete with programs that have untold more advantages. We should shoot for contending every 4-5 years by continuing the RSing

When have we competed for the West since 2000? Mullen shit the bed in 2014 with a once in a generation QB. Mullen himself said he took us as far as he could, he admitted he would never beat Bama. Cohen hired a guy that he hoped would be able to compete with Bama by having explosive plays. It isn't like his offense only worked at lower levels and the Big12. The Big10 is more of a defense league so doing what he did there is impressive. Maybe trying to run the offense and being CEO is biting JoMo in the ass. Not many head coaches can call all the plays either Offense or Defense and be successful.

[msstate7]

I think Moorhead's personality and demeanor make him more susceptible to the keyboard warriors.

I think it's just his offense and overall performance. This board told me all offseason that joe was better than jimbo freaking Fisher. Our fanbase bought in hook, line, and sinker... joe just hasn't delivered on what he promised

[Tbonewannabe]

It was overblown by all state fans, media, nfl scouts, and even our current staff then. Now this could be true, or more likely, our staff just can't use the talent in a way that fits them. There's another explanation too... Mullen was just that damn good to win an "untalented" team

I think our players believing the press is another issue. There is a reason Saban chews out reporters for writing stories about how good Bama is.

[msstate7]

When have we competed for the West since 2000? Mullen shit the bed in 2014 with a once in a generation QB. Mullen himself said he took us as far as he could, he admitted he would never beat Bama. Cohen hired a guy that he hoped would be able to compete with Bama by having explosive plays. It isn't like his offense only worked at lower levels and the Big12. The Big10 is more of a defense league so doing what he did there is impressive. Maybe trying to run the offense and being CEO is biting JoMo in the ass. Not many head coaches can call all the plays either Offense or Defense and be successful.

Right. We won't compete in the west year-in, year-out

[msstate7]

I think our players believing the press is another issue. There is a reason Saban chews out reporters for writing stories about how good Bama is.

Our head coach fed it... know your ring sizes and crap

[BrunswickDawg]

Guess you didn't see where he acknowledged the offense is bad right now and wasn't defending that.

Kinda hard to deny the stats of UF's and KY's defensive numbers this year. They aren't just crazy unbelievable or anything. No one is claiming that. It's not like he is making any of the numbers up. They may be a tad bit padded by how shotty we played them but they still had an answer for everything they've faced. That padding isn't helping them out that much.

Both those teams are currently put together as a whole better than we are right now. If you disagree you are in denial.

Exactly.

Another point I am trying to make is that many are also making an assumption that the Dan Mullen Offense would just walk in and run all over Kentucky and Florida. Well, the book on how to beat State didn't change because Dan Mullen left. For 8 of the past 9 years, if you could lock down the MSU running game, you won. Forcing MSU into winning by throwing the ball was your best chance - either our OL wasn't built for pass pro, our QB's were not talented enough that we could win with throwing, or our WR's could not get separation, or a combination of all of these. These issues are structural, not schematic. Certain offensive schemes could mask it to a point - however, all of what I just listed were all the things we all recognized as limitations to Dan Mullen teams - and bitched about for years on this board. Some years, we over came it. Some years we struggled to win 6. Teams have learned this more over the last 2 years watching film on Fitz. Sell out to stop the run, and we don't have the passing game to beat you. They did the same thing to Chris Relf in 2011. They did it to Tyler Russell when our OL was absolute trash and got him killed nearly every game. They did it to Dak in 2015, and have done it to Fitz as well. The changes to the offense have exacerbated the issues - there is no denying that. But there is absolutely no guarantee that the Dan Mullen Offense would have done any differently.

What changes from year to year are what teams can match up to our deficiencies and force us to play their game instead of ours. And, I may be totally wrong about Kentucky and UF - and that is fine - it's just 17n football.

[BrunswickDawg]

Our head coach fed it... know your ring sizes and crap

And how many people on here complained for years "we don't have championship expectations so we will never have championship level teams".

I'm pretty sure I've seen that post 1,000,000,000,000 times.

Can't have it both ways.

[StateDawg44]

Yeah I'd much rather have a new coach come in and play it safe and lack confidence.****

[msstate7]

Yeah I'd much rather have a new coach come in and play it safe and lack confidence.****

This is so much better. Our games are so much fun. If you can't appreciate infinite bad punts after 3 and outs, well you just aren't a good fan

[Tbonewannabe]

Our head coach fed it... know your ring sizes and crap

He has definitely not walked the walk yet. I like the confidence and from his record you would expect good to great results. For whatever reason it isn't working but I haven't seen anyone actually break down what is going wrong. All I have seen is "offense sux, fire him".

I remember watching Croom's offense and thinking a lot of the time there just wasn't anything there. WRs wouldn't be open or we were running and all the Oline made their blocks but we still only got 2 yards. I don't get the same feeling with this offense. It is more like our offense against USA where a player was just screwing up on every series. Oline just whiffing on blocks, WRs not catching open passes, or QB just overthrowing wide open guys or not seeing the TE that is alone on his hashmark.

[StateDawg44]

This is so much better. Our games are so much fun. If you can't appreciate infinite bad punts after 3 and outs, well you just aren't a good fan

Yeah that's what I was saying. Yet another example of you making up words to justify the fact that you bought into everything and your expectations got the best of you and now your feelings are hurt. You just need something or someone else to blame or argue with. http://panicfreaks.org/images/emoticons/pouty.gif

I haven't said once that I'm overly optimistic but I damn sure am not coming up with hypothetical reasons that are really just impossible to prove to be the cause of the problem like they are facts. I'll be a fan of MSU at the beginning and the end of the game no matter the outcome and won't be bitching and moaning like you.

I'm elated that I am not as negative and pessimistic as you. It must be tiring.

[dawgs]

This whole fanbase will hate joe Moorhead if he loses the next 2. I don't think he'd ever recover

We could look significantly improved and still end up losing to LSU and auburn. Both are more talented than Kentucky and Florida. Anyone expecting us to win these games has their head in the sand, losing them won't change a single thing about the opinion of moorhead I have right now.

I think his offense is a better offense than Mullen's offense. I think it's far more complex and requires a higher level of skill. Our guys heads are clearly swimming (especially the OL), and I just don't know if we have the WRs to get separation or the QB to deliver it consistently enough. Even on short passes, fitz consistently throws behind guys. Can't even count the number of swing passes and short crossing routes he's completed the pass but it's been on the back shoulder, causing the receiver to stop or slow his momentum to make the catch and pretty much eliminating any catch and run potential like those plays are designed to achieve. I think we are looking at a 6-6 ceiling this year at this point, let's see how keytaon develops and find out if he can be the guy next year, or if we need to start hoping Mayden or shrader can be the guy. Anything to give a spark cause right now we don't have it.

[Dawg2003]

He deserves every bit of criticism he's gotten. I think he can be good here m, but at very least he completely monkey 17ed the evaluation of this team and it's players.

Feels like the new staff was extremely arrogant and didn't quite respect what Mullen did here

I'm wondering that myself. Remember how he mentioned several times that we hadn't had a winning SEC but once in the past X years? Kind of throwing shade at Mullen. Well, now Moorhead is staring right in the face of a losing SEC record.

[dawgday166]

Anyone who thinks Mullen loses to Kentucky with this team is insane.

Not with same staff he has now. But if he has to hire each individually and has mostly never worked long with any of them then I believe he could've lost to KY.

[msstate7]

Not with same staff he has now. But if he has to hire each individually and has mostly never worked long with any of them then I believe he could've lost to KY.

And whose fault would it be if he made bad hires?

[Dawg2003]

We could look significantly improved and still end up losing to LSU and auburn. Both are more talented than Kentucky and Florida. Anyone expecting us to win these games has their head in the sand, losing them won't change a single thing about the opinion of moorhead I have right now.t.

I'm worried we may not even score a touchdown against Auburn or LSU. We couldn't against Florida. Why would anyone think we could against Auburn LSU who have better defenses?

[dawgday166]

This is so much better. Our games are so much fun. If you can't appreciate infinite bad punts after 3 and outs, well you just aren't a good fan

So how many times have our special teams sucked under Mullen post year 2 or 3. 2014 wasn't stellar. Helped get us beat against Bama. We used to bitch about his special teams all the time. Then he gets his ass motivated to get out of town and he works at making sure they can help him do that.

Funny how last year all of sudden he scrambles around, hires a good DC, scrambles around to recruit a bunch of Jucos to fill in holes on D, our Oline play improves a lot from 2016, etc. How come he didn't do stuff like that every damn year he was here.

[msstate7]

So how many times have our special teams sucked under Mullen post year 2 or 3. 2014 wasn't stellar. Helped get us beat against Bama. We used to bitch about his special teams all the time. Then he gets his ass motivated to get out of town and he works at making sure they can help him do that.

Funny how last year all of sudden he scrambles around, hires a good DC, scrambles around to recruit a bunch of Jucos to fill in holes on D, our Oline play improves a lot from 2016, etc. How come he didn't do stuff like that every damn year he was here.

We won 34 his last 4 years. You taking the O/U on 34 wins the next 4 years?

[dawgday166]

That's 8.5 wins a year. With losses to OM every good year we had. And blown out by Bama and AU except in 2015. That's decent but he could've done better IMO if he had hustled a little more. He jetting off to Europe and taking whole summer off pre 2016. Thought he would be out in 2015 but Manny left him high and dry when Richt got Miami job. So he said "F*** 2016" I guess. Then he gets he ass chewed and we "don't appreciate him" winning against 4 sorry OOC, 2 pitiful East teams, and 2 pitiful West teams.

ETA: Go take you anti-separation anxiety meds ****

[msstate7]

That's 8.5 wins a year. With losses to OM every good year we had. And blown out by Bama and AU except in 2015. That's decent but he could've done better IMO if he had hustled a little more. He jetting off to Europe and taking whole summer off pre 2016. Thought he would be out in 2015 but Manny left him high and dry when Richt got Miami job. So he said "F*** 2016" I guess. Then he gets he ass chewed and we "don't appreciate him" winning against 4 sorry OOC, 2 pitiful East teams, and 2 pitiful West teams.

So that's an over?

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Mullen would have had us 5-0..... then we lose at LSU, Bama and Ole Miss.

[dawgs]

We won 34 his last 4 years. You taking the O/U on 34 wins the next 4 years?

Mullen's problem wasn't that he wasn't a good coach, it's that he had some glaring flaws we could all see that he refused to address that might have made him a great coach. Then couple that with job hunting every November for the last 5 years costing us numerous egg bowls when we came out flat and unprepared (since Mullen was more concerned with Minnesota and Maryland type job openingns than prepping for OM), and of course people are going to get tired of his bullshit. Thinking it was probably time for Mullen to move on if he wasn't going to buy all in and stop job hunting does not mean we don't think he did a good job here (could've been better really), it just means we wanted a coach that wanted to be here and might be willing to take a look at his own flaws and work to correct them.

[msstate7]

Mullen would have had us 5-0..... then we lose at LSU, Bama and Ole Miss.

So now we just lose to all 3, and we lost these 2

[MetEdDawg]

Let me pose this question: If we still can't pour piss out of a boot with this offense by the Egg Bowl what makes you think we never win fewer than 9 games starting next year?

Well for right now I think it's too soon to judge what's going to happen. We still have more than half the season left. But if it's not better by Ole Miss then we have an issue we have to seriously address. So far we have a problem that I believe can be corrected. But if we make it to the end of the year and it's still this bad, then I'm gonna be very concerned and a change may need to happen.

The problem we have is that people are pissed now and want to do something now. So badly that we have had people say fire Joe Mo now, put Hud in his place, or that we should have hired some other G5 HC or hot shot OC. That's just plain stupid. It's literally too early to make any predictions because we have a chance to beat Auburn right in front of us plus an off week to adjust. If we beat Auburn, a whole mess of people are gonna have to eat crow because a bunch on here said we wouldn't win that game. And those of you that said that better not use the argument that Auburn isn't what we thought they were and then not use the same argument for our team.

We still don't know what we are yet. Right now we aren't good, but that's not an indicator that we will be not good the rest of the year. I'm choosing to reserve judgment until I have more data points. Additionally, I would think the recruiting response we've had publicly by our commits speaks volumes about the types of changes we are seeing from this staff. They clearly have the recruiting stuff down if guys like Pickering, who are being chased by Bama, are saying hey stay with MSU don't bail. That's huge.

[BrunswickDawg]

Well for right now I think it's too soon to judge what's going to happen. We still have more than half the season left. But if it's not better by Ole Miss then we have an issue we have to seriously address. So far we have a problem that I believe can be corrected. But if we make it to the end of the year and it's still this bad, then I'm gonna be very concerned and a change may need to happen.

The problem we have is that people are pissed now and want to do something now. So badly that we have had people say fire Joe Mo now, put Hud in his place, or that we should have hired some other G5 HC or hot shot OC. That's just plain stupid. It's literally too early to make any predictions because we have a chance to beat Auburn right in front of us plus an off week to adjust. If we beat Auburn, a whole mess of people are gonna have to eat crow because a bunch on here said we wouldn't win that game. And those of you that said that better not use the argument that Auburn isn't what we thought they were and then not use the same argument for our team.

We still don't know what we are yet. Right now we aren't good, but that's not an indicator that we will be not good the rest of the year. I'm choosing to reserve judgment until I have more data points. Additionally, I would think the recruiting response we've had publicly by our commits speaks volumes about the types of changes we are seeing from this staff. They clearly have the recruiting stuff down if guys like Pickering, who are being chased by Bama, are saying hey stay with MSU don't bail. That's huge.

^^^ THIS. If Joe is who we thought we hired, we right the ship, and could plausibly still beat any team left on the schedule not named Bama. That's why teams that panic under adversity lose the season, but teams that battle their way through adversity can still be successful.

[basedog]

Isn't it time to move from Mullen? It's over, gone and never coming back NOR will we ever know how this season would be with him or anyone else!

Hailstate!

[Tbonewannabe]

Well for right now I think it's too soon to judge what's going to happen. We still have more than half the season left. But if it's not better by Ole Miss then we have an issue we have to seriously address. So far we have a problem that I believe can be corrected. But if we make it to the end of the year and it's still this bad, then I'm gonna be very concerned and a change may need to happen.

The problem we have is that people are pissed now and want to do something now. So badly that we have had people say fire Joe Mo now, put Hud in his place, or that we should have hired some other G5 HC or hot shot OC. That's just plain stupid. It's literally too early to make any predictions because we have a chance to beat Auburn right in front of us plus an off week to adjust. If we beat Auburn, a whole mess of people are gonna have to eat crow because a bunch on here said we wouldn't win that game. And those of you that said that better not use the argument that Auburn isn't what we thought they were and then not use the same argument for our team.

We still don't know what we are yet. Right now we aren't good, but that's not an indicator that we will be not good the rest of the year. I'm choosing to reserve judgment until I have more data points. Additionally, I would think the recruiting response we've had publicly by our commits speaks volumes about the types of changes we are seeing from this staff. They clearly have the recruiting stuff down if guys like Pickering, who are being chased by Bama, are saying hey stay with MSU don't bail. That's huge.

We hired the best OC in the country last year so hiring the next guy is as much of a risk as seeing if Joe can get us going. If we go the rest of the year with zero improvement then maybe you look at getting someone else.

[TrapGame]

Well for right now I think it's too soon to judge what's going to happen. We still have more than half the season left. But if it's not better by Ole Miss then we have an issue we have to seriously address. So far we have a problem that I believe can be corrected. But if we make it to the end of the year and it's still this bad, then I'm gonna be very concerned and a change may need to happen.

The problem we have is that people are pissed now and want to do something now. So badly that we have had people say fire Joe Mo now, put Hud in his place, or that we should have hired some other G5 HC or hot shot OC. That's just plain stupid. It's literally too early to make any predictions because we have a chance to beat Auburn right in front of us plus an off week to adjust. If we beat Auburn, a whole mess of people are gonna have to eat crow because a bunch on here said we wouldn't win that game. And those of you that said that better not use the argument that Auburn isn't what we thought they were and then not use the same argument for our team.

We still don't know what we are yet. Right now we aren't good, but that's not an indicator that we will be not good the rest of the year. I'm choosing to reserve judgment until I have more data points. Additionally, I would think the recruiting response we've had publicly by our commits speaks volumes about the types of changes we are seeing from this staff. They clearly have the recruiting stuff down if guys like Pickering, who are being chased by Bama, are saying hey stay with MSU don't bail. That's huge.

Excellent response.

I don't like the way things are trending right now. We need to see this offense start clicking against a SEC opponent. Beating La Tech 50-10 does absolutely nothing for us.

[dawgday166]

Isn't it time to move from Mullen? It's over, gone and never coming back NOR will we ever know how this season would be with him or anyone else!

Hailstate!

I miss him soooo baaad. We'd be 5-0 with him right now. He won sooo many big games for us. He's the greatest. *****

[BrunswickDawg]

Excellent response.

I don't like the way things are trending right now. We need to see this offense start clicking against a SEC opponent. Beating La Tech 50-10 does absolutely nothing for us.
That's why I hold out hope that these 2 games were our learning curve. How many times over the past 9 years did our offense struggle against UAB, La Tech, USA, and we end up in a dog fight? How many times did our defense turn putrid and we have to fight off Samford or UMASS?

[msstate7]

I miss him soooo baaad. We'd be 5-0 with him right now. He won sooo many big games for us. He's the greatest. *****

Now we can't even win not big games. Hell of an upgrade

[dawgday166]

Now we can't even win not big games. Hell of an upgrade

Just like 2016 ... Mullen's 8th year as HC.

[fishwater99]

I know the season looks bad and may be bad the rest of the year but I've never seen a Coach get as much heat at Msu in year one as Moorhead. I have said several times I don't like what I have seen but it's year one.

I sure hope we beat Auburn to silent the crowd a little. I'm thinking it will be a close game because Auburn has issues as well.

When is the last time a first year coach inherited a team this good? We usually fire a coach, they don't just leave like Mullen did..

[Really Clark?]

When is the last time a first year coach inherited a team this good? We usually fire a coach, they don't just leave like Mullen did..

I would say Smart’s first year at GA maybe the closest example.

[msstate7]

Just like 2016 ... Mullen's 8th year as HC.

Mullen took over a dumpster fire and we were pretty dang competitive with Tyson freaking lee at qb. Moorhead has turned the sec total yardage leader into less of a qb than Tyson lee was. This season is an abortion, and it's embarrassing y'all think Moorhead isn't to blame. Moorhead can't hold mullen's jock, and Mullen is only a good coach (not even close to elite)

[TrapGame]

I would say Smart’s first year at GA maybe the closest example.

Yeah, Kirby caught hell that first year at Georgia. I'm kinda hoping this is our transition year to a new coach and scheme. And then next season we look damn good on offense. (Crosses fingers.)

[msstate7]

Yeah, Kirby caught hell that first year at Georgia. I'm kinda hoping this is our transition year to a new coach and scheme. And then next season we look damn good on offense. (Crosses fingers.)

Signing swift and Fromm would go a long way towards that

[TrapGame]

Signing swift and Fromm would go a long way towards that

But who thought Jake Fromm was going to do that his freshman year?

[msstate7]

But who thought Jake Fromm was going to do that his freshman year?

247 had him the #2 pro qb in the class

[Tbonewannabe]

Mullen took over a dumpster fire and we were pretty dang competitive with Tyson freaking lee at qb. Moorhead has turned the sec total yardage leader into less of a qb than Tyson lee was. This season is an abortion, and it's embarrassing y'all think Moorhead isn't to blame. Moorhead can't hold mullen's jock, and Mullen is only a good coach (not even close to elite)

QB - not great but we sat a 4 star Tyler Russell on the bench

Anthony Dixon led the SEC in rushing and played awhile in the NFL.
Christian Ducre

WR
Brandon McRae - 51 receptions 518 yards 3 TDs in previous year
Leon Berry
Chad Bumphis
Brandon Heavens
Chris Smith
Ricco Sanders

OL
Experienced Oline returning from previous year - similar to this year

1st Round LT - Derek Sherrod
JC Brigone - Junior
Craig Jenkins - Senior
Addison Lawrence - Sophomore
Quentin Saulsberry - played in NFL - Sophomore

Defense had a shit load of talent.

Kyle Love - Long time NFL starter at DT
Pernell McPhee - Long time NFL starter at DE
Josh Boyd - Freshman - Long time NFL starter
Fletcher Cox - Freshman - One of top DT in NFL
Jamar Chaney - NFL LB
Chris White - NFL LB - won Conerly Trophy
KJ Wright - One of top OLB Coverage in NFL
Charles Mitchell - played a little NFL
Jon Banks - Freshman year - played a good bit
Corey Broomfield - Freshman year - played a good bit

[drunkernhelldawg]

No state coach has ever taken over a team this talented. Joe fed the expectations.... know your ring size, fitz Heisman talk, no one has ever picked this offense up so quick, etc. He deserves every bit of the criticism

To me, "We Believe" was worse.

[Really Clark?]

QB - not great but we sat a 4 star Tyler Russell on the bench

Anthony Dixon led the SEC in rushing and played awhile in the NFL.
Christian Ducre

WR
Brandon McRae - 51 receptions 518 yards 3 TDs in previous year
Leon Berry
Chad Bumphis
Brandon Heavens
Chris Smith
Ricco Sanders

OL
Experienced Oline returning from previous year - similar to this year

1st Round LT - Derek Sherrod
JC Brigone - Junior
Craig Jenkins - Senior
Addison Lawrence - Sophomore
Quentin Saulsberry - played in NFL - Sophomore

Defense had a shit load of talent.

Kyle Love - Long time NFL starter at DT
Pernell McPhee - Long time NFL starter at DE
Josh Boyd - Freshman - Long time NFL starter
Fletcher Cox - Freshman - One of top DT in NFL
Jamar Chaney - NFL LB
Chris White - NFL LB - won Conerly Trophy
KJ Wright - One of top OLB Coverage in NFL
Charles Mitchell - played a little NFL
Jon Banks - Freshman year - played a good bit
Corey Broomfield - Freshman year - played a good bit

The program was still a dumpster fire, personnel wise you had some players but not necessarily players for the system, including at QB. And several of those players were true freshman and JUCO transfers. Talented but still very inexperienced and unknown how they would perform at the time.

[drunkernhelldawg]

I agree. He loses to Kentucky- a 5-0 Kentucky with wins over us, Florida, and South Carolina- and our fans have just totally left the bandwagon. It's odd.

It's because we didn't expect Kentucky and Florida to be as good as they are. We had counted on those wins without doubt.

[Tbonewannabe]

The program was still a dumpster fire, personnel wise you had some players but not necessarily players for the system, including at QB. And several of those players were true freshman and JUCO transfers. Talented but still very inexperienced and unknown how they would perform at the time.

And most of those guys were on the 9 win team in 2010.

[Really Clark?]

And most of those guys were on the 9 win team in 2010.

But they were not as good in 2009. You do have development in a year. Even if we had national caliber talent on the team in 2009 wouldn’t change the fact the program was in shambles before Mullen was hired. And I argue it makes the performance that Croom turned in even worse than how bad it was in 2008. It’s not just personnel

[Tbonewannabe]

But they were not as good in 2009. You do have development in a year. Even if we had national caliber talent on the team in 2009 wouldn’t change the fact the program was in shambles before Mullen was hired. And I argue it makes the performance that Croom turned in even worse than how bad it was in 2008. It’s not just personnel

According to everyone on the message boards, we should have won 10 games minimum with the personnel from 2017. I am just saying Mullen inherited a lot of talent that went 5-7. People want to act like Mullen started from scratch but he didn't. As inept as Croom was in running an offense, he did a good job fixing a lot of the problems that Jackie left.

As far as development, all of those guys except Boyd, Cox, Banks, and Broomfield were older players. It wasn't like all of the NFL talent was freshmen. Charles Mitchell was the only one out of that list that was a sophomore on defense so 2 Dline that was a Jr and Sr along with a Sr and 2 Jrs at LB. So Mullen inherited top half of the league in defensive talent because the average SEC defense in 2009 doesn't have that level of NFL talent.

Mullen also inherited an Oline that had starting experience along with one of the top LT in college football at the most important position on the Oline. Anyone think Eiland will be a 1st round pick?

[Really Clark?]

According to everyone on the message boards, we should have won 10 games minimum with the personnel from 2017. I am just saying Mullen inherited a lot of talent that went 5-7. People want to act like Mullen started from scratch but he didn't. As inept as Croom was in running an offense, he did a good job fixing a lot of the problems that Jackie left.

As far as development, all of those guys except Boyd, Cox, Banks, and Broomfield were older players. It wasn't like all of the NFL talent was freshmen. Charles Mitchell was the only one out of that list that was a sophomore on defense so 2 Dline that was a Jr and Sr along with a Sr and 2 Jrs at LB. So Mullen inherited top half of the league in defensive talent because the average SEC defense in 2009 doesn't have that level of NFL talent.

Mullen also inherited an Oline that had starting experience along with one of the top LT in college football at the most important position on the Oline. Anyone think Eiland will be a 1st round pick?

A dumpster fire program is a lot more than just the players. Changing the culture and mentality was more than what a lot of them ended up being talent wise. Whole lot more to it than that and Croom cleaned some things but the program as a whole was in bad shape. And we completely changed offensive philosophy 180 degrees from the previous staff. Even with that, a QB that fit better (or who pitches to Dixon) vs LSU and a horrendous bad call vs Houston away from 7-5 in his first year anyway

[Tbonewannabe]

A dumpster fire program is a lot more than just the players. Changing the culture and mentality was more than what a lot of them ended up being talent wise. Whole lot more to it than that and Croom cleaned some things but the program as a whole was in bad shape. And we completely changed offensive philosophy 180 degrees from the previous staff. Even with that, a QB that fit better (or who pitches to Dixon) vs LSU and a horrendous bad call vs Houston away from 7-5 in his first year anyway

I agree but I don't think Mullen had to change that much with the culture and mentality. Other than the team giving up against UM, they played hard but it was hard to win as bad as the offensive system was.

[msstate7]

they played hard but it was hard to win as bad as the offensive system was.

Sounds familiar lol

[Tbonewannabe]

Sounds familiar lol

Unfortunately it does sound familiar although I think the offensive failures are different. Croom's offense just wasn't effective in college. He tried to run a NFL offense and couldn't adapt it to college kids. We know JoeMo's offense works but we are not executing (according to coaches).

If your offense gives you wide open running lanes but the RB chooses the wrong hole or WR running wide open that drop the ball or the QB airmails it, that offense is working but not being executed. Is this the case and if so is JoMo asking too much of the players to be able to execute his offense at this learning stage? Fitz said that Key would understand it a lot better this time next year. It makes it sound like he is still having problems processing the offense. Hopefully Joe does something to help rather than let Fitz beat his head against a wall.

[Johnson85]

According to everyone on the message boards, we should have won 10 games minimum with the personnel from 2017. I am just saying Mullen inherited a lot of talent that went 5-7. People want to act like Mullen started from scratch but he didn't. As inept as Croom was in running an offense, he did a good job fixing a lot of the problems that Jackie left.

As far as development, all of those guys except Boyd, Cox, Banks, and Broomfield were older players. It wasn't like all of the NFL talent was freshmen. Charles Mitchell was the only one out of that list that was a sophomore on defense so 2 Dline that was a Jr and Sr along with a Sr and 2 Jrs at LB. So Mullen inherited top half of the league in defensive talent because the average SEC defense in 2009 doesn't have that level of NFL talent.

Mullen also inherited an Oline that had starting experience along with one of the top LT in college football at the most important position on the Oline. Anyone think Eiland will be a 1st round pick?

Mullen inherited a team that was poorly coached but that had some really good individual pieces but also massive holes at important positions.

That's not entirely different from what Crooms inherited either. The difference is that Mullen came in and could coach. Jamar Chaney made a comment to a reporter about how great it was to have a real coach. If a good coach had come in after Sherrill, how many of the culture problems could have been fixed without destroying the roster? It might not have made a lot of difference, but a lot of Crooms problem players might have resopnded to good coaching if they had gotten it.

Mullen also played a ridiculously tough schedule in 2009 without an SEC QB or free safety. And went 5-7 and was only a pair of stilts away from going 6-6.

[gravedigger]

The consensus with Bo and his producers was yes. He runs a power spread similar to Mullen. This team would be the most talented he's ever coached. He would run AW and KH hard. He wouldn't be asking Fitz to be Joe Montana.

They also thought Nutt, Miles, Freeze and Mullen would be 5-0 right now with this level of talent.

Can't say that I really disagreed with anything they said. It was about adapting to what you have. Bo doesn't understand the stubbornness coming out of Moorhead. Good coaches adapt and do it quickly.

Dear God make it stop

[DownwardDawg]

There is a difference in criticism and concern about production, and raving like loons about firing a guy 5 games into the season.
And throw Nutt and Freeze out of this conversation completely. Nutt has been out of the game 10 years and what he would have done with this type team is irrelevant .
Freeze never ran the ball with any real success. So what would he do with an offense that couldn't pass and had no top end WR talent?

And Hud. A guy that couldn't win at U La La would have us at 5-0? The Hud myth will never die. And Bobby Wallace should have replaced The Kang in '96.

Now Mullen, he probably does have us at 5-0, 4-1 at worst. Personally, I don't think he beats Kentucky - but that is arguable. What I do know, is that Dan would likely lose 1 of AU or LSU plus Bama, and possibly all 3. He couldn't beat teams with elite defenses, and he wouldn't do it with this team for the same reason that Moorhead has failed so far - elite defenses shut down our running game and force us to pass the ball and we don't have the talent on the OL, the QB or at WR to do that against top line defenses.

Has ULL ever had a better coach than Hud? You know, the guy that took them to 5 bowl games in a row and won 4 of those.
They had never been to a bowl game before Hud since becoming D1 in 1978. Some of you just don?t like Hud for whatever reason. And every time someone brings him up, some of you act like they are saying he?s the next Nick Saban. People just mention him as a candidate and realize that it would be awesome if he really did turn out to be a great coach because he would recruit well at State and he would never leave.

[Really Clark?]

Has ULL ever had a better coach than Hud? You know, the guy that took them to 5 bowl games in a row and won 4 of those.
They had never been to a bowl game before Hud since becoming D1 in 1978. Some of you just don?t like Hud for whatever reason. And every time someone brings him up, some of you act like they are saying he?s the next Nick Saban. People just mention him as a candidate and realize that it would be awesome if he really did turn out to be a great coach because he would recruit well at State and he would never leave.

The biggest problem with Hud is when the NCAA shut down Saunders (and Hud knew exactly what Saunders was about prior to hiring him) his program, the wins and talent level bottomed very quickly. It’s ludicrous to think about giving a failed Sunbelt coach with a stained rep the keys to a SEC program without him significantly rehabbing his profile for at least 3-4 years

[bulldawg28]

He deserves every bit of criticism he's gotten. I think he can be good here m, but at very least he completely monkey 17ed the evaluation of this team and it's players.

Feels like the new staff was extremely arrogant and didn't quite respect what Mullen did here

This. Totally disrespect to what Mullen has done. I realized in an interview when Fitz made a point to mention the Qb coach was correcting errors Mullen taught.

[TrapGame]

This. Totally disrespect to what Mullen has done. I realized in an interview when Fitz made a point to mention the Qb coach was correcting errors Mullen taught.

We can file this under: If it ain't broke...

[bulldawg28]

QB - not great but we sat a 4 star Tyler Russell on the bench

Anthony Dixon led the SEC in rushing and played awhile in the NFL.
Christian Ducre

WR
Brandon McRae - 51 receptions 518 yards 3 TDs in previous year
Leon Berry
Chad Bumphis
Brandon Heavens
Chris Smith
Ricco Sanders

OL
Experienced Oline returning from previous year - similar to this year

1st Round LT - Derek Sherrod
JC Brigone - Junior
Craig Jenkins - Senior
Addison Lawrence - Sophomore
Quentin Saulsberry - played in NFL - Sophomore

Defense had a shit load of talent.

Kyle Love - Long time NFL starter at DT
Pernell McPhee - Long time NFL starter at DE
Josh Boyd - Freshman - Long time NFL starter
Fletcher Cox - Freshman - One of top DT in NFL
Jamar Chaney - NFL LB
Chris White - NFL LB - won Conerly Trophy
KJ Wright - One of top OLB Coverage in NFL
Charles Mitchell - played a little NFL
Jon Banks - Freshman year - played a good bit
Corey Broomfield - Freshman year - played a good bit

You do know Mullen recruited and signed about 75% of those guys listed, right? He didn't inherit the majority of them.

[DownwardDawg]

The biggest problem with Hud is when the NCAA shut down Saunders (and Hud knew exactly what Saunders was about prior to hiring him) his program, the wins and talent level bottomed very quickly. It’s ludicrous to think about giving a failed Sunbelt coach with a stained rep the keys to a SEC program without him significantly rehabbing his profile for at least 3-4 years

I totally agree that Hud has a lot to prove before he should be hired as head coach of an SEC program.

[bulldawg28]

We can file this under: If it ain't broke...

Build on it!

[BuckyIsAB****]

The consensus with Bo and his producers was yes. He runs a power spread similar to Mullen. This team would be the most talented he's ever coached. He would run AW and KH hard. He wouldn't be asking Fitz to be Joe Montana.

They also thought Nutt, Miles, Freeze and Mullen would be 5-0 right now with this level of talent.

Can't say that I really disagreed with anything they said. It was about adapting to what you have. Bo doesn't understand the stubbornness coming out of Moorhead. Good coaches adapt and do it quickly.

I would probably have to agree. Hud maybe. Miles no and Nutt no. Freeze maybe. Mullen would be 5-0 right now for sure.

[Tbonewannabe]

You do know Mullen recruited and signed about 75% of those guys listed, right? He didn't inherit the majority of them.

You do know almost every recruit he signed was committed to Croom first right? The only person we signed that Mullen had recruited was Chad Bumphis, I believe, could be wrong.

[Goldendawg]

Why is that so impossible to think that UF - who had an elite defense 2 years ago (#6 scoring D in country in '16) that quit on a dead shark coach in '17 - couldn't get back to a very high level with arguably a top 5 DC?
Grantham did the same thing for us last year. He took us from #93 to #26. UF has moved (so far) from #69 to #9.

And Kentucky - brought back 8 starters on defense from last year - two of whom (Allen and Mike Edwards) could have gone pro last year. It is a Senior laden defense that has improved every year under Stoops. Are they elite? Time will tell - but they have played at that level through 3 SEC games.

And again - I recognize that our offense is bad right now. I'm not claiming it isn't. But, we have played 2 teams that should be getting more credit then many are giving them.

How many starters did we bring back after beating them what, 44 - 7 last year? Just sayin.