Still Scratching My Head.....

[ShotgunDawg]

"I don't think there is anyone that can do more with less. That's Joe"

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/09/20/joe-moorhead-penn-state-offense-fordham

I mean, WTF guys? The resume and track record of Joe Moorhead in no way adds up to what we've seen. Has Moorhead's coaching career been the equivalent of Ole Miss' Waynesboro ACT tests? Is there someone else that deserves credit for Moorhead's success?

This coaching hire has been the equivalent thus far of a trusted buddy telling you about this great steakhouse that has won numerous awards but you go eat there and it tastes like cold Grove chicken fingers.

It makes no sense.

[smootness]

Sometimes, guys look better one place than they do in another. Sometimes it takes years out to look back and make sense of a failure. There are all kinds of examples of guys who were successful somewhere and then didn't get it done at a higher level.

Kevin Sumlin was masterful at Houston. He went to A&M, loaded up on talent, and produced mediocre teams. Turns out, Manziel was just that good, and Houston isn't the SEC.
Will Muschamp was a great DC...couldn't get it done as a HC at Florida.
Jim McElwain was a great OC and then had success at Colorado State...and even though he initially did well at Florida on results (though it was pretty clearly smoke and mirrors), it eventually fell apart.
Butch Jones looked really good at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. Looked like crap at Tennessee.

It happens. Moorhead had never been a HC before on the FBS level. So we didn't even have as much to judge him on as some of these guys. This year's team is unfocused, undisciplined, and slow to react. They also appear lethargic and lacking energy. That is simply a fact. He may be able to call plays but not develop players who aren't already a fit for his system or create a culture around a program. Those are things you can't judge until a guy is a HC.

[ShotgunDawg]

Sometimes, guys look better one place than they do in another. Sometimes it takes years out to look back and make sense of a failure. There are all kinds of examples of guys who were successful somewhere and then didn't get it done at a higher level.

Kevin Sumlin was masterful at Houston. He went to A&M, loaded up on talent, and produced mediocre teams. Turns out, Manziel was just that good, and Houston isn't the SEC.
Will Muschamp was a great DC...couldn't get it done as a HC at Florida.
Jim McElwain was a great OC and then had success at Colorado State...and even though he initially did well at Florida on results (though it was pretty clearly smoke and mirrors), it eventually fell apart.
Butch Jones looked really good at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. Looked like crap at Tennessee.

It happens. Moorhead had never been a HC before on the FBS level. So we didn't even have as much to judge him on as some of these guys. This year's team is unfocused, undisciplined, and slow to react. They also appear lethargic and lacking energy. That is simply a fact. He may be able to call plays but not develop players who aren't already a fit for his system or create a culture around a program. Those are things you can't judge until a guy is a HC.

Good post. He can't be this bad though. Even Sumlin had some success.

[smootness]

Good post. He can't be this bad though. Even Sumlin had some success.

He absolutely can be this bad. Just because it seems surprising doesn't mean it isn't possible. Telling ourselves that what we're seeing isn't reality is a good way to end up in an awful place.

Obviously he wouldn't be fired until the end of the year, so he has time to begin looking like he has a clue. But if this continues through the year, he absolutely has to go. No questions asked. And if Cohen doesn't make the move, then Cohen has to go. Simple as that.

[Jack Lambert]

Well Saturday one of the times we got into the red zone I had a Croom feeling when we threw the ball two times then ran the ball one time and ended up kicking a field goal.

[BuckyIsAB****]

"I don't think there is anyone that can do more with less. That's Joe"

https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/09/20/joe-moorhead-penn-state-offense-fordham

I mean, WTF guys? The resume and track record of Joe Moorhead in no way adds up to what we've seen. Has Moorhead's coaching career been the equivalent of Ole Miss' Waynesboro ACT tests? Is there someone else that deserves credit for Moorhead's success?

This coaching hire has been the equivalent thus far of a trusted buddy telling you about this great steakhouse that has won numerous awards but you go eat there and it tastes like cold Grove chicken fingers.

It makes no sense.

He had Saquan Barkley at Penn St. And that Penn St team with Saquan probably goes 8-4 in the SEC. Just facts

[msu15]

Well Saturday one of the times we got into the red zone I had a Croom feeling when we threw the ball two times then ran the ball one time and ended up kicking a field goal.

Yea that was terrible

[bluelightstar]

He had Saquan Barkley at Penn St. And that Penn St team with Saquan probably goes 8-4 in the SEC. Just facts

And in case anyone hasn't noticed, Trace McSorley is rolling right along without him.

[Really Clark?]

Sometimes, guys look better one place than they do in another. Sometimes it takes years out to look back and make sense of a failure. There are all kinds of examples of guys who were successful somewhere and then didn't get it done at a higher level.

Kevin Sumlin was masterful at Houston. He went to A&M, loaded up on talent, and produced mediocre teams. Turns out, Manziel was just that good, and Houston isn't the SEC.
Will Muschamp was a great DC...couldn't get it done as a HC at Florida.
Jim McElwain was a great OC and then had success at Colorado State...and even though he initially did well at Florida on results (though it was pretty clearly smoke and mirrors), it eventually fell apart.
Butch Jones looked really good at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. Looked like crap at Tennessee.

It happens. Moorhead had never been a HC before on the FBS level. So we didn't even have as much to judge him on as some of these guys. This year's team is unfocused, undisciplined, and slow to react. They also appear lethargic and lacking energy. That is simply a fact. He may be able to call plays but not develop players who aren't already a fit for his system or create a culture around a program. Those are things you can't judge until a guy is a HC.

Butch Jones was a bit of an anomaly. He followed behind Brian Kelly for 2 straight stops, Central MI and Cin. His first year at Cin they went 4-8 after going 12-1 with Kelly the year before so a huge drop off but that might have been the year they had like 3 QB’s injuried?? Might be wrong on that

Sumlin followed Briles and kept what they had going but people forget Sumlin went 5-7 his 3rd year at Houston and finished ranked once, his last year going 12-1

[smootness]

Butch Jones was a bit of an anomaly. He followed behind Brian Kelly for 2 straight stops, Central MI and Cin. His first year at Cin they went 4-8 after going 12-1 with Kelly the year before so a huge drop off but that might have been the year they had like 3 QB’s injuried?? Might be wrong on that

Sumlin followed Briles and kept what they had going but people forget Sumlin went 5-7 his 3rd year at Houston and finished ranked once, his last year going 12-1

You can say this for anything, though. Moorhead only had 2 years at Penn State, and for both years he had McSorley and Saquon Barkley, so perhaps he just inherited a good team ready to make a big jump. And his last team at Fordham took a slight step back from previous years. Even still, he was only there 4 years, so it could have just been a good group that he rode. Or perhaps his playcalling works at certain levels and doesn't at others. Perhaps he just can't create the culture necessary to run an SEC program.

I have no idea. All I know is that his calling card is offense; it's the reason he got this job and the one thing he was supposed to bring. And our offense is horrendous. Not 'not as good as we hoped' or simply undisciplined. No, out and out horrible. So the one thing he was brought in specifically to do, he clearly isn't able to do right now. That's a fact.

[Johnson85]

Sometimes, guys look better one place than they do in another. Sometimes it takes years out to look back and make sense of a failure. There are all kinds of examples of guys who were successful somewhere and then didn't get it done at a higher level.

Kevin Sumlin was masterful at Houston. He went to A&M, loaded up on talent, and produced mediocre teams. Turns out, Manziel was just that good, and Houston isn't the SEC.
Will Muschamp was a great DC...couldn't get it done as a HC at Florida.
Jim McElwain was a great OC and then had success at Colorado State...and even though he initially did well at Florida on results (though it was pretty clearly smoke and mirrors), it eventually fell apart.
Butch Jones looked really good at Central Michigan and Cincinnati. Looked like crap at Tennessee.

It happens. Moorhead had never been a HC before on the FBS level. So we didn't even have as much to judge him on as some of these guys. This year's team is unfocused, undisciplined, and slow to react. They also appear lethargic and lacking energy. That is simply a fact. He may be able to call plays but not develop players who aren't already a fit for his system or create a culture around a program. Those are things you can't judge until a guy is a HC.

What's shocking to me (well, another thing that's shocking) is that when you have a players coach come along after a non-player's coach, a lot of times you see an instant bump. The players maintain some discipline but loosen up and have fun, and the negative effects from not being pushed as hard don't show up until after the first year. We have gone to shit immediately. I'm surprised by that but I guess it's the personality of the team.

[Irondawg]

Very simply if we suck again against Auburn offensively then he better have the best sales pitch in history for Cohen

[smootness]

What's shocking to me (well, another thing that's shocking) is that when you have a players coach come along after a non-player's coach, a lot of times you see an instant bump. The players maintain some discipline but loosen up and have fun, and the negative effects from not being pushed as hard don't show up until after the first year. We have gone to shit immediately. I'm surprised by that but I guess it's the personality of the team.

You could see it in warmups. I was on the field prior to the game, and there were at least 4-5 drops on kickoff/punt return warmups. Was there any attention paid to this by the coaching staff? No. Did the players seem concerned or upset by it? No. It looked like everyone had the attitude of 'Oh well, it's just warmups.' What did we do? Dropped the first 2 kicks we tried to return.

That is the sense I have about the way we go about things. There is little attention to detail, and the standard for execution doesn't seem to be high. Players just going through the motions in practice and warmups will be unprepared to excel in the game.

[ShotgunDawg]

You can say this for anything, though. Moorhead only had 2 years at Penn State, and for both years he had McSorley and Saquon Barkley, so perhaps he just inherited a good team ready to make a big jump. And his last team at Fordham took a slight step back from previous years. Even still, he was only there 4 years, so it could have just been a good group that he rode. Or perhaps his playcalling works at certain levels and doesn't at others. Perhaps he just can't create the culture necessary to run an SEC program.

I have no idea. All I know is that his calling card is offense; it's the reason he got this job and the one thing he was supposed to bring. And our offense is horrendous. Not 'not as good as we hoped' or simply undisciplined. No, out and out horrible. So the one thing he was brought in specifically to do, he clearly isn't able to do right now. That's a fact.

Yeah. I guess he could be the Forrest Gump of college football. Always in the right place at the right time and falls into success. However, if so, that's terrible luck for MSU. Just awful

[msstate7]

Yeah. I guess he could be the Forrest Gump of college football. Always in the right place at the right time and falls into success. However, if so, that's terrible luck for MSU. Just awful

Barkley could be to Moorhead as manziel was to sumlin. Barkley is unbelievable.

[smootness]

Yeah. I guess he could be the Forrest Gump of college football. Always in the right place at the right time and falls into success. However, if so, that's terrible luck for MSU. Just awful

I don't think he's a moron or that his previous success is based on pure luck. I just think being HC at Fordham or OC at Penn State does not equal being HC at Mississippi State. Through 5 games of being HC at Mississippi State, it seems pretty clear he's not cut out for the job.

[Really Clark?]

You can say this for anything, though. Moorhead only had 2 years at Penn State, and for both years he had McSorley and Saquon Barkley, so perhaps he just inherited a good team ready to make a big jump. And his last team at Fordham took a slight step back from previous years. Even still, he was only there 4 years, so it could have just been a good group that he rode. Or perhaps his playcalling works at certain levels and doesn't at others. Perhaps he just can't create the culture necessary to run an SEC program.

I have no idea. All I know is that his calling card is offense; it's the reason he got this job and the one thing he was supposed to bring. And our offense is horrendous. Not 'not as good as we hoped' or simply undisciplined. No, out and out horrible. So the one thing he was brought in specifically to do, he clearly isn't able to do right now. That's a fact.

Those points I made were not really a defense or condemnation of Moorehead. Just pointing out some outliers with those guys.

Usually programs who have a coach leave who was more successful than the programs historical record, they regress back to the mean a majority of the time. The best transitions have usually come from promoting from within and keeping stability and similar culture.

[Irondawg]

We know Franklin is intense so maybe he just needs to find his intense bastard for OC and DC. I do agree that our lack of attention to details seems a consistent and is very concerning.

[Percho]

Four stops for Joe and at all four first year he begin 3 - 2

[Percho]

Now 5.

Things will get much better.

Hide and watch!


Now now now they cried.

[ShotgunDawg]

Four stops for Joe and at all four first year he begin 3 - 2

It's not the 3-2 that bothers me. It's the looking like complete shit, 200 yards of offense, and square peg/round hole stuff that bothers me.

[msstate7]

It's not the 3-2 that bothers me. It's the looking like complete shit, 200 yards of offense, and square peg/round hole stuff that bothers me.

He just making us hard... no more soft with joe

[Irondawg]

Beat Auburn and at least show signs of life the rest of the season and all is well probably. But I still don't understand the play calls. Nothing is quick hitting and what happened to our TE's that we saw the 1st 3 weeks? Chip with a TE some and then throw in a TE screen. I don't see us doing anything to keep defenses at all on their heels and make a read

[basedog]

I also have some doubts about Joe but let's pump the brakes on him being fired after one year. Regardless what we may or may not think he want be fired after one season. Now how long before it gets better or worse is in his corner along with his staff. Let's hope we show signs of improvement starting Saturday.

[smootness]

We know Franklin is intense so maybe he just needs to find his intense bastard for OC and DC. I do agree that our lack of attention to details seems a consistent and is very concerning.

The HC has to set the tone for the program. That absolutely has to come from the top. That doesn't mean Moorhead or any HC has to be a guy who yells and screams, I don't believe that. But they have to set the standard. If you're going to be more of a players' coach, then you have to make it known that details matter and that there are consequences when those standards are met. It doesn't appear Moorhead is doing that.

[smootness]

I also have some doubts about Joe but let's pump the brakes on him being fired after one year. Regardless what we may or may not think he want be fired after one season. Now how long before it gets better or worse is in his corner along with his staff. Let's hope we show signs of improvement starting Saturday.

And the longer we wait, the bigger the hole we have to dig out of.

[basedog]

And the longer we wait, the bigger the hole we have to dig out of.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but he has some time to show improvements and it could happen. 5 games with the last two look awful, IF he is a decent Coach he will make some changes or at least get on track.

[ShotgunDawg]

The good news is that our defense is good.

The slightest bit of offensive pulse could actually lead to many wins.

[I seen it dawg]

You could see it in warmups. I was on the field prior to the game, and there were at least 4-5 drops on kickoff/punt return warmups. Was there any attention paid to this by the coaching staff? No. Did the players seem concerned or upset by it? No. It looked like everyone had the attitude of 'Oh well, it's just warmups.' What did we do? Dropped the first 2 kicks we tried to return.

That is the sense I have about the way we go about things. There is little attention to detail, and the standard for execution doesn't seem to be high. Players just going through the motions in practice and warmups will be unprepared to excel in the game.

If this is the norm we need to run the staff out on a rail as quickly as possible. It will be easy to see over the next month.

[msstate7]

If this is the norm we need to run the staff out on a rail as quickly as possible. It will be easy to see over the next month.

I'm mad now, but I still think this staff will figure it out somewhat. I expect us to play better this Saturday.

[I seen it dawg]

He just making us hard... no more soft with joe

Lol so typical of you. No one has said Joe isn't soft. He may be and this may not work. But I'm gonna wait and see with a bigger sample size than 2 games. It's amazing how much you and some others want to pound their chest about being right and it's all that matters. It's why I hammer your ass about Foambat>Gridley.

[TrapGame]

We can't take three years of Croom Ball in this conference this day and age. We let Joe go 4-8 with this roster and pat him on the back and say better luck next year we are doomed to be 7th in the West for a while.

If we struggle against La Tech's, Arkansas's and OM's defenses to put up points that should be all she wrote. The guru is not a guru. If players on the offense returning next year STILL can't grasp Joe's system by the Egg Bowl we are screwed!

[basedog]

If this is the norm we need to run the staff out on a rail as quickly as possible. It will be easy to see over the next month.

I agree, if Joe, staff and players quit or give up then yes on the exit for he and staff, we have time to make some noise. I ain't real confident right now but we have to let it play out.

[Cooterpoot]

It happens. Moorhead had never been a HC before on the FBS level.-Smootness

This is the correct answer.

[Cooterpoot]

The good news is that our defense is good.

The slightest bit of offensive pulse could actually lead to many wins.

I don't think our defense is nearly as good as last year.

[I seen it dawg]

Best coach by far on Florida's staff is Grantham....

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't think our defense is nearly as good as last year.

That's kind of disregarding the Georgia, Auburn, and Ole Miss games.

[Really Clark?]

That's kind of disregarding the Georgia, Auburn, and Ole Miss games.

We held OM to 355 yards while committing 5 turnovers. It was 10-6 at half and they went up 17-6 in the 3rd after another fumble. We also give them a short field on an on side kick that we didn’t recover. If KT holds on to the ball for just 2 of his fumbles, we win that game and limit the number of offensive possessions that OM has in the game.

[Cooterpoot]

That's kind of disregarding the Georgia, Auburn, and Ole Miss games.

Our defense had two bad games. GA and AU. One was the 2nd best team in America. A lot these experienced players were first year players last year too.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

I'm mad now, but I still think this staff will figure it out somewhat. I expect us to play better this Saturday.

nothing more than a moral victory at this point this year...wasted opportunity and won't be back in this position for several years, if ever.

[msstate7]

nothing more than a moral victory at this point this year...wasted opportunity and won't be back in this position for several years, if ever.

If we finish 8-4, I'll be ok with that now although I thought 10 wins should've happened. Guess Moorhead has just lowered my expectations