The Optimist's Post

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm ticked, I'm frustrated, I'm irate, and I'm scratching my head as to what has gone so wrong with this team. I'm not an Xs and Os guy and I'm not sure I completely agree with all I'm about to post, but here are some plausible explanations and thoughts.

1. At least our head coach isn't Matt Luke.

2. Our defense is fine. Half the team is good. I'm not worried there. We are a national top 15-20 defense. Shoop has done well this far.

3. Ok, now to the meat. Contrary to what my eyes currently see, he can't be this bad. He simply can't be. His resume is too accomplished. The Peter Principle would've gotten him 10 years ago if he were this bad. When you coach at the college level for years on end and produce great offenses everywhere you go, it's almost impossible to be this bad. It makes no sense.

So, what is going on?

1. Joe Moorhead is a good football coach but was not the right coach to maximize THIS 2018 team. We could've hired Greg Knox and likely been better off in the short term. But the long term, that's an entirely different question.

2. Think about where Moorhead has coached: Fordham, Penn State, U Conn, etc. Luke Getsy - Green Bay Marcus Johnson - Duke. Point is, these guys are accustomed to coaching different types of kids. They are accustomed to coaching prep school kids, catholic school kids, northeastern educated kids, etc. I think it's plausible to say that the learning curve, football IQ, and general ability change offenses on a dime may have steeper learning curve at MSU than those other places. I love Mississippi kids and believe you can win big with them, but they simply aren't the same as northeastern kids. They come from a different culture with different educational systems and different ways of dishing out punishment. Plainly, I believe this staff hasn't had the retention and instinctual understanding of the offense that they had hoped or are used to.

3. With the above in mind, the good news is that, if what I stated above is true, things should gradually get better as the players will slowly understand the offense better and eventually the older guys will be able to teach it too younger players. However, at this time our team is so engrained for 9 years into the Mullen scheme, that we are lost running anything else and I'm not sure it completely matters what that anything else is.

Just some thoughts. Mostly, I just can't imagine that a guy that fielded an offense that scored 40 points a week in the Big 10 vs Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, etc could be this bad. I refuse to believe that. Many people want to compare Moorhead to Croom, but that lacks logic because Croom was a running backs coach. He never ran or coordinated a damn thing before being MSU's coach. Felker the same. Moorhead's background and preparation for this job far exceeds those guys. I don't have all the answers, and I'm not sure Moorhead was the right coach for THIS team's personnel, but the guy's resume and background almost guarantees that he's a hell of a lot better than this.

Lastly, we must keep in mind how rare it is for a new coach to take over a team that has had as much success and talent as this MSU team, and therefore we don't have much to compare the job Moorhead is doing to others. Pruitt, Morris, Chip Kelly are all getting passes because they coach bad teams, but UCLA was way better on offense last year than this year. So was Arkansas. Point is, we all under estimated the learning curve. I'm pissed and frustrated but it literally makes no logic sense that Moorhead will be as bad in the future as he currently is.

Now, I know some will counter my theories with "why are Mullen and Fisher having success in year 1?" Well, maybe both guys teams were way more setup to run their offenses than Moorhead's was to run his. Heck, this year's Florida team has betters WRs than Mullen ever had at MSU.

Just some food for thought. This season is gonna be rough year but maybe we click at some point because we truly have a coach in which there was no evidence would ever field an offense remotely close to this poor.

[dawgday166]

I'm usually very patient with new coaches but ... producing this offensive output when there is an 1100 yd back sitting on the bench and your QB is getting killed in pass pro ... I'm leaning towards JoMo not being the right guy for this job. And he's too soft with the team too.

[msstate7]

You just hoping and not actually looking at facts. Moorhead sucks

[Homedawg]

Disagree w the part about the defense. In that, while we've only gave up 13 points tonight, they did it wo a qb that can throw or run. And never stopped the spot screen. And never got off the field on third down. The screen part gives credit to Mullen for taking advantage of our lack of adjustment. But we have tons of talent on d. We should be great and not just ok. And ok is what I've seen the last two Weeks.

[EngDawg]

Moorhead would probably do very well as a Big 10 or Big 12 HC, but I’m not sure the SEC is the right place for him. Some of that gimmicky stuff he likes to run just isn’t going to work against SEC defenses it appears

[ShotgunDawg]

You just hoping and not actually looking at facts. Moorhead sucks

I'm doing both. Yes I'm hoping but the facts of his resume and accomplishments make no sense with what we are seeing. That's a fact.

[ShotgunDawg]

Moorhead would probably do very well as a Big 10 or Big 12 HC, but I’m not sure the SEC is the right place for him. Some of that gimmicky stuff he likes to run just isn’t going to work against SEC defenses it appears

Perhaps you're right. It's just way too early to say that.

[msstate7]

I'm doing both. Yes I'm hoping but the facts of his resume and accomplishments make no sense with what we are seeing. That's a fact.

Charlie weis

[Quaoarsking]

If Shrader is good right away, Moorhead will do fine here. If he's not, Moorhead probably doesn't last to 2021, or maybe not even 2020.

[ShotgunDawg]

Disagree w the part about the defense. In that, while we've only gave up 13 points tonight, they did it wo a qb that can throw or run. And never stopped the spot screen. And never got off the field on third down. The screen part gives credit to Mullen for taking advantage of our lack of adjustment. But we have tons of talent on d. We should be great and not just ok. And ok is what I've seen the last two Weeks.

I just can't bring myself to complain about a defense that's on the field all night long and mostly keeps the other team from scoring. The best recipe for the defense to improve is for the offense to improve and keep them off the field. I think they're fine.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm ticked, I'm frustrated, I'm irate, and I'm scratching my head as to what has gone so wrong with this team. I'm not an Xs and Os guy and I'm not sure I completely agree with all I'm about to post, but here are some plausible explanations and thoughts.

1. At least our head coach isn't Matt Luke.

2. Our defense is fine. Half the team is good. I'm not worried there. We are a national top 15-20 defense. Shoop has done well this far.

3. Ok, now to the meat. Contrary to what my eyes currently see, he can't be this bad. He simply can't be. His resume is too accomplished. The Peter Principle would've gotten him 10 years ago if he were this bad. When you coach at the college level for years on end and produce great offenses everywhere you go, it's almost impossible to be this bad. It makes no sense.

So, what is going on?

1. Joe Moorhead is a good football coach but was not the right coach to maximize THIS 2018 team. We could've hired Greg Knox and likely been better off in the short term. But the long term, that's an entirely different question.

2. Think about where Moorhead has coached: Fordham, Penn State, U Conn, etc. Luke Getsy - Green Bay Marcus Johnson - Duke. Point is, these guys are accustomed to coaching different types of kids. They are accustomed to coaching prep school kids, catholic school kids, northeastern educated kids, etc. I think it's plausible to say that the learning curve, football IQ, and general ability change offenses on a dime may have steeper learning curve at MSU than those other places. I love Mississippi kids and believe you can win big with them, but they simply aren't the same as northeastern kids. They come from a different culture with different educational systems and different ways of dishing out punishment. Plainly, I believe this staff hasn't had the retention and instinctual understands of the offense that they had hoped or are used to.

3. With the above in mind, the good news is that, if what I stated above is true, things should gradually get better as the players will slowly understand the offense better and eventually the older guys will be able to teach it too younger players. However, at this time our team is so engrained for 9 years into the Mullen scheme, that we are lost running anything else and I'm not sure it completely matters what that anything else is.

Just some thoughts. Mostly, I just can't imagine that a guy that fielded an offense that scored 40 points a week in the Big 10 vs Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, etc could be this bad. I refuse to believe that. Many people want to compare Moorhead to Croom, but that lacks logic because Croom was a running backs coach. He never ran or coordinated a damn thing before being MSU's coach. Felker the same. Moorhead's background and preparation for this job far exceeds those guys. I don't have all the answers, and I'm not sure Moorhead was the right coach for THIS team's personnel, but the guy's resume and background almost guarantees that he's a hell of a lot better than this.

Lastly, we must keep in mind how rare it is for a new coach to take over a team that has had as much success and talent as this MSU team, and therefore we don't have much to compare the job Moorhead is doing to others. Pruitt, Morris, Chip Kelly are all getting passes because they coach bad teams, but UCLA was way better on offense last year than this year. So was Arkansas. Point is, we all under estimated the learning curve. I'm pissed and frustrated but it literally makes no logic sense that Moorhead will be as bad in the future as he currently is.

Now, I know some will counter my theories with "why are Mullen and Fisher having success in year 1?" Well, maybe both guys teams were way more setup to run their offenses than Moorhead's was to run his. Heck, this year's Florida team has betters WRs than Mullen ever had at MSU.

Just some food for thought. This season is gonna be rough but maybe we click at some point because we truly have a coach in which there was no evidence would ever field an offense remotely close to this poor.

I agree with some of that....but there is plenty of evidence he can field an offense this bad now. I'll throw something out there. He ain't never had to field a offense against SEC level defensive size and speed and depth. A lot of what we are doing seems a step slow developting. I know some of you hate the sport but the best analogy here is from soccer. Some of the big European leagues play beautiful football. They have exquisite passing and slow buildups in offense that work methodically toward the goal. In England, you don't get enough time on the ball to do that. You can beat an English team doing it ina Cup tie, but you ain't winning an English league doing it. That's about speed, pressure on the ball, and depth. Now what's really working in England the last few years is a meld of the two. Maybe Joe can pull it off, eventually.

[ShotgunDawg]

Charlie weis

Charlie was never a good college OC and had never been a head coach. Good example but Moorhead's resume is more complete and versatile than Charlie's was.

[ShotgunDawg]

I agree with some of that....but there is plenty of evidence he can field an offense this bad now. I'll throw something out there. He ain't never had to field a offense against SEC level defensive size and speed and depth. A lot of what we are doing seems a step slow developting. I know some of you hate the sport but the best analogy here is from soccer. Some of the big European leagues play beautiful football. They have exquisite passing and slow buildups in offense that work methodically two red the goal. In England, you don't get enough time in the ball to do that. You can beat an English team doing it ina Cup tie, but you ain't winning an English league doing it. That's about speed, pressure on the ball, and depth. Now what's really working in England the last few years is a meld of the two. Maybe Joe can pull it off, eventually.

He has fielded an offense against SEC size and speed. Dude put up 24 and 38 on Ohio State who has every bit of an SEC roster and then some. Hell of lot better than Kentucky or Florida's

What looks like slow developing plays could be players being very slow at reading the defense. The play itself may not be designed to be slow.

[msstate7]

Charlie was never a good college OC and had never been a head coach. Good example but Moorhead's resume is more complete and versatile than Charlie's was.

Sarkasian and McE

[Liverpooldawg]

He has fielded an offense against SEC size and speed. Dude put up 24 and 38 on Ohio State who has every bit of an SEC roster and then some. Hell of lot better than Kentucky or Florida's

What looks like slow developing plays could be players being very slow at reading the defense. The play itself may not be designed to be slow.

Ohio State is the ONLY team in the BIG that approaches SEC size and speed. You can do anything for one big game. He is used to the Kentuckies and (current) Floridias of the BIG being big but slow. It's a cliche, but it's still VERY true. In the SEC even the defensive tackles are fast.

[Liverpooldawg]

He has fielded an offense against SEC size and speed. Dude put up 24 and 38 on Ohio State who has every bit of an SEC roster and then some. Hell of lot better than Kentucky or Florida's

What looks like slow developing plays could be players being very slow at reading the defense. The play itself may not be designed to be slow.

Well, if that's what you got, you have to adapt to it. I see no signs of that.

[Pit Bull]

Actually heard some fans saying they'd take back Croom & McCorvey over this......now that is depression setting in right there I tell ya!

[Todd4State]

I think in hindsight that a Jeremy Pruitt or even a Hud would have been a better choice in the short term but I agree that Moorhead may be better in the long term. I'm just not sure if the fans and alumni are going to give him time to do bring in his types of players because our fans seem to have decided that he just isn't a fit.

[dawgday166]

I think in hindsight that a Jeremy Pruitt or even a Hud would have been a better choice in the short term but I agree that Moorhead may be better in the long term. I'm just not sure if the fans and alumni are going to give him time to do bring in his types of players because our fans seem to have decided that he just isn't a fit.

Well he better start cracking the whip then.

I think everyone of our problems are walk-through non-physical practices, after practice efforts by players aren't there (staying longer to work on passing/timing of routes, film study, etc.). They just ain't working hard and they ain't tough. All of this is also why we look so disorganized on offense and our pass pro keeps breaking down.

This ain't the Ivy League.

[Todd4State]

Well he better start cracking the whip then.

I think everyone of our problems are walk-through non-physical practices, after practice efforts by players aren't there (staying longer to work on passing/timing of routes, film study, etc.). They just ain't working hard and they ain't tough. All of this is also why we look so disorganized on offense and our pass pro keeps breaking down.

This ain't the Ivy League.

We don't look disorganized to me. It just looks to me like our o-line is getting their ass beat.

[dawgday166]

We don't look disorganized to me. It just looks to me like our o-line is getting their ass beat.

We do at times. On one play tonight Deddrick Thomas was still looking at sidelines for play when ball was snapped and didn't move the whole play (it was busted cause he didn't block anyone). When we check and look towards sideline, we look very disorganized. There is so much confusion inherent in our offense right now it's unreal.

[Liverpooldawg]

We don't look disorganized to me. It just looks to me like our o-line is getting their ass beat.

Its the same line as last year. What changed? They rarely got whipped last year.

[Goldendawg]

We do at times. On one play tonight Deddrick Thomas was still looking at sidelines for play when ball was snapped and didn't move the whole play (it was busted cause he didn't block anyone). When we check and look towards sideline, we look very disorganized. There is so much confusion inherent in our offense right now it's unreal.

My thoughts exactly. How many plays per game are we averaging this year as opposed to years past. I have gone to every home game for 50 plus years and this looks like Croom and Woody demanding we try to run an O we don't have players for. It was painful sitting there tonight with no hope for the O.

[Todd4State]

Its the same line as last year. What changed? They rarely got whipped last year.

We lost Rankin and we're asking them to pass block more. It's very simple.

[Liverpooldawg]

We lost Rankin and we're asking them to pass block more. It's very simple.

Rankin only played about half the games last year. He was hurt the whole year remember. The drop off, if there was one, wasn't nearly this bad.

[dawgday166]

Eiland did move better IMO last year. In fact I was very surprised at how well he pass blocked when in there last year. He seems a lot more tentative and slow this year. Probably cause we're not going live in practice too much.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I'm ticked, I'm frustrated, I'm irate, and I'm scratching my head as to what has gone so wrong with this team. I'm not an Xs and Os guy and I'm not sure I completely agree with all I'm about to post, but here are some plausible explanations and thoughts.

1. At least our head coach isn't Matt Luke.

2. Our defense is fine. Half the team is good. I'm not worried there. We are a national top 15-20 defense. Shoop has done well this far.

3. Ok, now to the meat. Contrary to what my eyes currently see, he can't be this bad. He simply can't be. His resume is too accomplished. The Peter Principle would've gotten him 10 years ago if he were this bad. When you coach at the college level for years on end and produce great offenses everywhere you go, it's almost impossible to be this bad. It makes no sense.

So, what is going on?

1. Joe Moorhead is a good football coach but was not the right coach to maximize THIS 2018 team. We could've hired Greg Knox and likely been better off in the short term. But the long term, that's an entirely different question.

2. Think about where Moorhead has coached: Fordham, Penn State, U Conn, etc. Luke Getsy - Green Bay Marcus Johnson - Duke. Point is, these guys are accustomed to coaching different types of kids. They are accustomed to coaching prep school kids, catholic school kids, northeastern educated kids, etc. I think it's plausible to say that the learning curve, football IQ, and general ability change offenses on a dime may have steeper learning curve at MSU than those other places. I love Mississippi kids and believe you can win big with them, but they simply aren't the same as northeastern kids. They come from a different culture with different educational systems and different ways of dishing out punishment. Plainly, I believe this staff hasn't had the retention and instinctual understanding of the offense that they had hoped or are used to.

3. With the above in mind, the good news is that, if what I stated above is true, things should gradually get better as the players will slowly understand the offense better and eventually the older guys will be able to teach it too younger players. However, at this time our team is so engrained for 9 years into the Mullen scheme, that we are lost running anything else and I'm not sure it completely matters what that anything else is.

Just some thoughts. Mostly, I just can't imagine that a guy that fielded an offense that scored 40 points a week in the Big 10 vs Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, etc could be this bad. I refuse to believe that. Many people want to compare Moorhead to Croom, but that lacks logic because Croom was a running backs coach. He never ran or coordinated a damn thing before being MSU's coach. Felker the same. Moorhead's background and preparation for this job far exceeds those guys. I don't have all the answers, and I'm not sure Moorhead was the right coach for THIS team's personnel, but the guy's resume and background almost guarantees that he's a hell of a lot better than this.

Lastly, we must keep in mind how rare it is for a new coach to take over a team that has had as much success and talent as this MSU team, and therefore we don't have much to compare the job Moorhead is doing to others. Pruitt, Morris, Chip Kelly are all getting passes because they coach bad teams, but UCLA was way better on offense last year than this year. So was Arkansas. Point is, we all under estimated the learning curve. I'm pissed and frustrated but it literally makes no logic sense that Moorhead will be as bad in the future as he currently is.

Now, I know some will counter my theories with "why are Mullen and Fisher having success in year 1?" Well, maybe both guys teams were way more setup to run their offenses than Moorhead's was to run his. Heck, this year's Florida team has betters WRs than Mullen ever had at MSU.

Just some food for thought. This season is gonna be rough year but maybe we click at some point because we truly have a coach in which there was no evidence would ever field an offense remotely close to this poor.

I read the first paragraph and part of the 2nd and posted this. You can make whatever excuses you wanna make but the facts are this. Moorhead in 8 quarters has put up 13 points with a better team than who he was facing. All yall that love bartoo should know that he has gotten a solid -2 the last two weeks from him.

He aint got it. In this day and age if you cant put up 100 yards of TOTAL OFFENSE IN ONE HALF then you need to take a serious look at what you are doing and change it. Fitz looks like he is having to solve an algebra problem on just about every snap. We use about 4 formations ram and lion, nub lt and rt trips and spread. No getting Aeris and Kylin in at the same time, slim to no quick game and our RBs havent gotten a combined 20 carries the last two games. Moorhead has been a total failure and is the definition of ineptitude. Nobody has done less with Moor than he has. All yall getting on Taggart and Frost better wake TF up and see what Moorhead is doing.

Im done with him only the Egg saves him at this point

[Dawg2003]

Can he recruit good enough WRs to run his offense?

[MetEdDawg]

I'm ticked, I'm frustrated, I'm irate, and I'm scratching my head as to what has gone so wrong with this team. I'm not an Xs and Os guy and I'm not sure I completely agree with all I'm about to post, but here are some plausible explanations and thoughts.

1. At least our head coach isn't Matt Luke.

2. Our defense is fine. Half the team is good. I'm not worried there. We are a national top 15-20 defense. Shoop has done well this far.

3. Ok, now to the meat. Contrary to what my eyes currently see, he can't be this bad. He simply can't be. His resume is too accomplished. The Peter Principle would've gotten him 10 years ago if he were this bad. When you coach at the college level for years on end and produce great offenses everywhere you go, it's almost impossible to be this bad. It makes no sense.

So, what is going on?

1. Joe Moorhead is a good football coach but was not the right coach to maximize THIS 2018 team. We could've hired Greg Knox and likely been better off in the short term. But the long term, that's an entirely different question.

2. Think about where Moorhead has coached: Fordham, Penn State, U Conn, etc. Luke Getsy - Green Bay Marcus Johnson - Duke. Point is, these guys are accustomed to coaching different types of kids. They are accustomed to coaching prep school kids, catholic school kids, northeastern educated kids, etc. I think it's plausible to say that the learning curve, football IQ, and general ability change offenses on a dime may have steeper learning curve at MSU than those other places. I love Mississippi kids and believe you can win big with them, but they simply aren't the same as northeastern kids. They come from a different culture with different educational systems and different ways of dishing out punishment. Plainly, I believe this staff hasn't had the retention and instinctual understanding of the offense that they had hoped or are used to.

3. With the above in mind, the good news is that, if what I stated above is true, things should gradually get better as the players will slowly understand the offense better and eventually the older guys will be able to teach it too younger players. However, at this time our team is so engrained for 9 years into the Mullen scheme, that we are lost running anything else and I'm not sure it completely matters what that anything else is.

Just some thoughts. Mostly, I just can't imagine that a guy that fielded an offense that scored 40 points a week in the Big 10 vs Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, etc could be this bad. I refuse to believe that. Many people want to compare Moorhead to Croom, but that lacks logic because Croom was a running backs coach. He never ran or coordinated a damn thing before being MSU's coach. Felker the same. Moorhead's background and preparation for this job far exceeds those guys. I don't have all the answers, and I'm not sure Moorhead was the right coach for THIS team's personnel, but the guy's resume and background almost guarantees that he's a hell of a lot better than this.

Lastly, we must keep in mind how rare it is for a new coach to take over a team that has had as much success and talent as this MSU team, and therefore we don't have much to compare the job Moorhead is doing to others. Pruitt, Morris, Chip Kelly are all getting passes because they coach bad teams, but UCLA was way better on offense last year than this year. So was Arkansas. Point is, we all under estimated the learning curve. I'm pissed and frustrated but it literally makes no logic sense that Moorhead will be as bad in the future as he currently is.

Now, I know some will counter my theories with "why are Mullen and Fisher having success in year 1?" Well, maybe both guys teams were way more setup to run their offenses than Moorhead's was to run his. Heck, this year's Florida team has betters WRs than Mullen ever had at MSU.

Just some food for thought. This season is gonna be rough year but maybe we click at some point because we truly have a coach in which there was no evidence would ever field an offense remotely close to this poor.

Everything you posted was the hill I was willing to die on last night. Moorhead isn't this bad. But no matter what you say, the majority of this board thinks he is. They think no matter what changes if you have better players you should just be better.

I think Moorhead is better long term than short term. Mullen wins 9-10 with this group. Question is could he ever win more? I think moorhead can because again, you don't go from being a genius to being totally inept in two games. But our fan base literally does not care. If we underperform but still recruit well that will tell me all I need to know.

There's a lot to sift through right now and it doesn't look good. But the majority on here would rather say Moorhead sucks than try and understand what might be going on. Moorhead didn't become stupid two weeks ago. So think logically people. Maybe offensively we aren't as talented as we thought and the change in offense didn't exactly help us. We've got weaknesses Mullen knew how to cover up after 7 years. Moorhead wants to run his offense but he can't. That must suck. I bet the majority of us would not like to go to work every day and have to do things differently than we are accustomed to.

[msstate7]

Everything you posted was the hill I was willing to die on last night. Moorhead isn't this bad. But no matter what you say, the majority of this board thinks he is. They think no matter what changes if you have better players you should just be better.

I think Moorhead is better long term than short term. Mullen wins 9-10 with this group. Question is could he ever win more? I think moorhead can because again, you don't go from being a genius to being totally inept in two games. But our fan base literally does not care. If we underperform but still recruit well that will tell me all I need to know.

There's a lot to sift through right now and it doesn't look good. But the majority on here would rather say Moorhead sucks than try and understand what might be going on. Moorhead didn't become stupid two weeks ago. So think logically people. Maybe offensively we aren't as talented as we thought and the change in offense didn't exactly help us. We've got weaknesses Mullen knew how to cover up after 7 years. Moorhead wants to run his offense but he can't. That must suck. I bet the majority of us would not like to go to work every day and have to do things differently than we are accustomed to.

You think Moorhead can win 9-10 in the next few seasons? LSU, bama, and auburn are gonna continue to be really good. aTm is joining their group. All of the above will finish with a top 10 class. Meanwhile, we're gonna be late 20s at BEST. If Moorhead can't compete with that group above while we have comparable talent, how in the world will he with lesser talent?

[Dawg496]

1. At least our head coach isn't Matt Luke.


He has the same record as us and has played three teams better than any team we've played and will have a record at least as good as us if not better not to mention beat us head to head AGAIN with a worse roster.

So what's your point?

[msstate7]

He has the same record as us and has played three teams better than any team we've played and will have a record at least as good as us if not better not to mention beat us head to head AGAIN with a worse roster.

So what's your point?

Matt Luke has an awful roster too. We don't

[Dawgs87]

He has the same record as us and has played three teams better than any team we've played and will have a record at least as good as us if not better not to mention beat us head to head AGAIN with a worse roster.

So what's your point?

Couldn't have said it better myself. Hope y'all are masochists because the rest of the season will be pure pain and embarrassment. Possibly one of the most disgraceful in our long and storied history of disgraceful seasons. Including the season when Mike Henig literally single-handedly got Craig Steltz drafted.

[bulldawg28]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Hope y'all are masochists because the rest of the season will be pure pain and embarrassment. Possibly one of the most disgraceful in our long and storied history of disgraceful seasons. Including the season when Mike Henig literally single-handedly got Craig Steltz drafted.

That LSU game was hilarious. Unreal how bad Croom did this team.

[ShotgunDawg]

Matt Luke has an awful roster too. We don't

Matt Luke has a much better offensive roster than we do.

It's clear that Mullen covered up tons of weaknesses that Moorhead may not have known existed.

[msstate7]

Matt Luke has a much better offensive roster than we do.

It's clear that Mullen covered up tons of weaknesses that Moorhead may not have known existed.

So we hired a much worse coach than we had? Great, I feel better. Maybe this 30ish ranked recruiting class will catch us up to bama, LSU, auburn, aTm, and Kentucky... spit

[Dawgs87]

The opponents we have wins over have a combined record of 4-9.

[msstate7]

The opponents we have wins over have a combined record of 4-9.

Be proud of those wins... they may be our only ones.

[Dawgfan77]

Everything you posted was the hill I was willing to die on last night. Moorhead isn't this bad. But no matter what you say, the majority of this board thinks he is. They think no matter what changes if you have better players you should just be better.

I think Moorhead is better long term than short term. Mullen wins 9-10 with this group. Question is could he ever win more? I think moorhead can because again, you don't go from being a genius to being totally inept in two games. But our fan base literally does not care. If we underperform but still recruit well that will tell me all I need to know.

There's a lot to sift through right now and it doesn't look good. But the majority on here would rather say Moorhead sucks than try and understand what might be going on. Moorhead didn't become stupid two weeks ago. So think logically people. Maybe offensively we aren't as talented as we thought and the change in offense didn't exactly help us. We've got weaknesses Mullen knew how to cover up after 7 years. Moorhead wants to run his offense but he can't. That must suck. I bet the majority of us would not like to go to work every day and have to do things differently than we are accustomed to.
You cannot be serious... GTFOH with this. based on this post I?m gonna say you were in the it takes time camp with Croom. No joe didn?t become dumb over night. But he hasn?t coached against teams this talented ever and refuses to model his system around what he has. Of all the coaches hired he walked into the best situation and to not put up 300 yds a game and only one TD in two weeks is unacceptable. Oh and that?s against UK and UF. Not Bama. Your post are the best examples of some of our fans who still think we are poor ol MSU. Get your head out of the sand. We made a terriable hire

[ShotgunDawg]

So we hired a much worse coach than we had? Great, I feel better. Maybe this 30ish ranked recruiting class will catch us up to bama, LSU, auburn, aTm, and Kentucky... spit

For this team's personnel, yes we hired a much worse coach than what we hired

[Dawgs87]

Matt Luke has a much better offensive roster than we do.

It's clear that Mullen covered up tons of weaknesses that Moorhead may not have known existed.

In the words of the late Denny Green maybe "they are who we thought they were." And Moorhead is the weak link. Our talent has been evaluated up and down by every media outlet in the country. Talent is not the problem. There is no reason ever a team should go from averaging 400 yards offense per game in the SEC to averaging 201.5 yards per game, while simultaneously bringing back nearly the entire offense and upgrading at WR. It's unforgivable.

Y'all all of a sudden think Guidry is a bad WR? He was going to be the man. Maybe Fitz's receivers always look bad because he is a bad QB. I can cite numerous examples of this. Notice Dak is playing with a group of receivers that can't hold roster spots. Granted they are 1-2 but Dak's completion is WAY above Fitz's is, was or ever will be. Fitz is completing 49% of his passes on the year. As a 5th year senior, Dak completed 66% as a true dual threat QB while he was carrying the team on his back.

I'm sick of people giving Fitz a pass. We were successful with him only because he could run. Now he obviously can't for whatever reason so he has literally 0 redeeming QB qualities besides his stature.

[Coursesuper]

That anyone that can find anything to be optimistic after watching that debacle is incredible to me. This is real and it's over welcome back to 2001 y'all.

[Dawgfan77]

That anyone that can find anything to be optimistic after watching that debacle is incredible to me. This is real and it's over welcome back to 2001 y'all.

Yep and if Cohn is smart and I have my doubts you cut your losses now before 01 becomes 03.
If Moorehead can?t win with this team then he sure as hell cant win with next years

[ShotgunDawg]

That anyone that can find anything to be optimistic after watching that debacle is incredible to me. This is real and it's over welcome back to 2001 y'all.

Just throwing out a counter viewpoint. I even stated I don't believe it all.

[Coursesuper]

Yep and if Cohn is smart and I have my doubts you cut your losses now before 01 becomes 03.
If Moorehead can?t win with this team then he sure as hell cant win with next years

It's not that he's not smart, he's just an insufferable, arrogant prick that believes he's above reproach. And that's worse than not smart. So we've got that going for us also.

[BrunswickDawg]

Shotgun - you have some valid points. A couple of more things to add.

As I said in a thread earlier in the week - our OL has always been built around the run under Mullen and always, always, struggled in pass pro. To be effective they have always need to be moving forward off the ball instead of backwards. Expecting this personnel to adapt to that total change in philosophy - let alone the changes in assignments and scheme - exacerbates what we all know - our OL recruiting has been bad.

We are also seeing impacts of inconsistent recruiting and roster management for the last nine years. We hyped ourselves into believing this isn't an issue. But Moorhead had considerably more talent on the roster at PSU - a consistent Top 10 recruiting rank (as high as #5) - and under Mullen we recruited at the same level as Kentucky - in the high 20s consistently. And the area where our recruiting excelled was on Defense - not offense. If MS didn't grow quality RB like trees, we would hardly have signed ANY 4* players on offense. Between '14 and '17 classes we signed 4 non-RB 4* players. Dear, Gray, Rankin, KT. That's it. That's not a receipt to "out talent" anyone in the SEC (KY signed 9 non-RB 4*s in the same period many of them OL). Interestingly, we landed 4 in Joe's first class - but that's no where near the level needed to "out talent" other teams. Question is - can a coach used to having more elite talent on offense adjust his plan? So far he hasn't.

[MetEdDawg]

You think Moorhead can win 9-10 in the next few seasons? LSU, bama, and auburn are gonna continue to be really good. aTm is joining their group. All of the above will finish with a top 10 class. Meanwhile, we're gonna be late 20s at BEST. If Moorhead can't compete with that group above while we have comparable talent, how in the world will he with lesser talent?

In case you haven't noticed Auburn isn't good. They might be better than us but there's no evidence they are. They have gone two straight games rushing less than 100 yards and they've played Arkansas and Southern Miss in those two games.

There are a lot of factors at play here for us. I don't see why folks can't understand that. We didn't fire an ineffective staff. We lost a staff that was the best we ever had. It's not like we were correcting bad things. We are now having to change things that worked. We've never been in that situation. Moorhead is learning and guess what? That's part of it.

We didn't hire a ready made HC but most on here thought we did. We didn't. He's having to adjust and so are the players. I still have yet to find someone that can make a comparison of our situation to any school in the last 15 years. We had a coach for 9 years and he left with his entire staff to a better job and we had to replace him from the outside. That hasn't happened in the last 15 years and it certainly hasn't happened at a school like ours.

In some ways it would be better if this team were really young. It would be much easier to teach them new tricks than these guys that have gotten tons of playing time in the same system for years. But that's not where we are. We made a mistake alright. We assumed nothing would change, Moorhead would step right in and just take this talent to the top with no issues at all, and that everything would go perfectly. WE WERE WRONG and we just don't want to admit it. We want to puff our chests out to act tough to overcompensate.

[msstate7]

In case you haven't noticed Auburn isn't good. They might be better than us but there's no evidence they are. They have gone two straight games rushing less than 100 yards and they've played Arkansas and Southern Miss in those two games.

So you taking state over auburn? Lol

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We don't look disorganized to me. It just looks to me like our o-line is getting their ass beat.

OTs are getting beat, but almost every blitz has unblocked guys. That's general disorganization on the part of the pass pro team, Hill included who misses a ton of blocks and assignments. Ol gets beat some but we mostly kill ourselves by mentally not knowing what to do

[BoomBoom]

Everything you posted was the hill I was willing to die on last night. Moorhead isn't this bad. But no matter what you say, the majority of this board thinks he is. They think no matter what changes if you have better players you should just be better.

I think Moorhead is better long term than short term. Mullen wins 9-10 with this group. Question is could he ever win more? I think moorhead can because again, you don't go from being a genius to being totally inept in two games. But our fan base literally does not care. If we underperform but still recruit well that will tell me all I need to know.

There's a lot to sift through right now and it doesn't look good. But the majority on here would rather say Moorhead sucks than try and understand what might be going on. Moorhead didn't become stupid two weeks ago. So think logically people. Maybe offensively we aren't as talented as we thought and the change in offense didn't exactly help us. We've got weaknesses Mullen knew how to cover up after 7 years. Moorhead wants to run his offense but he can't. That must suck. I bet the majority of us would not like to go to work every day and have to do things differently than we are accustomed to.

If you can't make adjustments, you'll never be a great coach. Moorhead has made zero adjustments. Maybe he'll do better with players that fit his scheme, but only marginally. I really thought he could make adjustments, but he has shown zero so far.

[Dawgs87]

OTs are getting beat, but almost every blitz has unblocked guys. That's general disorganization on the part of the pass pro team, Hill included who misses a ton of blocks and assignments. Ol gets beat some but we mostly kill ourselves by mentally not knowing what to do

I would argue that the OTs are getting beat because we throw an incomplete pass on nearly every 1st down play, and our RBs touch the ball on approximately 20% of our offensive snaps. When you combine those two factors and add in 3rd and longs, it's not hard to figure out why they are struggling.

[MetEdDawg]

If you can't make adjustments, you'll never be a great coach. Moorhead has made zero adjustments. Maybe he'll do better with players that fit his scheme, but only marginally. I really thought he could make adjustments, but he has shown zero so far.

See I don't agree that he hasn't made adjustments. 2 penalties for 15 yards is a hell of an adjustment from 16 for 136. But again, how do you tell a guy hey block that guy in front of you? Eiland and Reese were getting their ass beat last night. Do we seriously think that all of a sudden they just regressed? Hell no.

We were predictable on offense under Mullen for a reason. Our guys could only do what he did. So yeah we ran more and win more. But they can't execute this. Do we want Moorhead to change his terminology? When everyone says we should just run more, what should Moorhead do verbally to tell them to execute better? It's not like they haven't worked on it. Reese and Eiland both were getting beat on the edge. And it's hard RPO when you can't pass.

He's made some adjustments but they can't all happen overnight. Moorhead is still learning. But to say we haven't made adjustments isn't fair. We still have more to make for sure. But he's still figuring this team out. He's only 5 games in.

[BoomBoom]

See I don't agree that he hasn't made adjustments. 2 penalties for 15 yards is a hell of an adjustment from 16 for 136. But again, how do you tell a guy hey block that guy in front of you? Eiland and Reese were getting their ass beat last night. Do we seriously think that all of a sudden they just regressed? Hell no.

We were predictable on offense under Mullen for a reason. Our guys could only do what he did. So yeah we ran more and win more. But they can't execute this. Do we want Moorhead to change his terminology? When everyone says we should just run more, what should Moorhead do verbally to tell them to execute better? It's not like they haven't worked on it. Reese and Eiland both were getting beat on the edge. And it's hard RPO when you can't pass.

He's made some adjustments but they can't all happen overnight. Moorhead is still learning. But to say we haven't made adjustments isn't fair. We still have more to make for sure. But he's still figuring this team out. He's only 5 games in.

Getting beat on the edge? You add a blocking TE or RB. Moorhead doesnt want to do that because it negates the number advantage he wants. Not a big deal when you are basing an offense around pounding the run and burning them/keeping them honest with PA. Huge deal when you want to RPO rollout and outnumber the D.