Research time

[MetEdDawg]

I would like to know over the last 15 years how many P5 programs had a HC of 5+ years leave for a better job, then do as well or better than the previous year with the new coach.

I'm gonna support Joe Moorhead right now because I think our situation is a massive outlier and that our ability to predict what would happen was just way the hell off. But I'm truly interested to know how many of these situations occur and how the teams do when they hire a new coach.

[Coursesuper]

I would like to know over the last 15 years how many P5 programs had a HC of 5+ years leave for a better job, then do as well or better than the previous year with the new coach.

I'm gonna support Joe Moorhead right now because I think our situation is a massive outlier and that our ability to predict what would happen was just way the hell off. But I'm truly interested to know how many of these situations occur and how the teams do when they hire a new coach.

You can blindly support it but if you won't but I can't. This staff inherited a very good football team and we look like a jv team. This is over, we show zero toughness and that's what really bothers me the most.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

I would like to know over the last 15 years how many P5 programs had a HC of 5+ years leave for a better job, then do as well or better than the previous year with the new coach.

I'm gonna support Joe Moorhead right now because I think our situation is a massive outlier and that our ability to predict what would happen was just way the hell off. But I'm truly interested to know how many of these situations occur and how the teams do when they hire a new coach.

I was wondering this exact same thing myself. We might have been wise to listen to other fanbases that told us it's hard to have a seamless change of regimes, but P5 coaching changes also don't usually happen after sustained success with a really good roster to boot. Quite the opposite usually, so there's not many other data points to look at that I feel like can give us an idea of what we should expect.

[MetEdDawg]

You can blindly support it but if you won't but I can't. This staff inherited a very good football team and we look like a jv team. This is over, we show zero toughness and that's what really bothers me the most.

I just want an answer to the question. That's all I asked for. I'm not happy about the last two games. But are we seriously going to sit here and say the former WR coach for the Packers doesn't know what he's doing? Are we really going to say that our HC that was heralded by literally EVERYONE as an offensive genius just plain sucks?

That doesn't make any sense. There is something bigger here than "our staff just sucks". They can't just suck because 90% of this board said this was the best staff we've ever assembled. But now all of a sudden they suck? I'm not that gullible. People are pissed and rightfully so. But I think the biggest issue is people aren't getting their expectations met, they don't know why, and the easiest thing to do is emotionally point the finger at the new guy without dissecting what might really be going on.

[Todd4State]

I just want an answer to the question. That's all I asked for. I'm not happy about the last two games. But are we seriously going to sit here and say the former WR coach for the Packers doesn't know what he's doing? Are we really going to say that our HC that was heralded by literally EVERYONE as an offensive genius just plain sucks?

That doesn't make any sense. There is something bigger here than "our staff just sucks". They can't just suck because 90% of this board said this was the best staff we've ever assembled. But now all of a sudden they suck? I'm not that gullible. People are pissed and rightfully so. But I think the biggest issue is people aren't getting their expectations met, they don't know why, and the easiest thing to do is emotionally point the finger at the new guy without dissecting what might really be going on.

Dan's recruiting is hurting us on the offensive side of the ball. Our OT's should be able to pass block.

[EdDawg]

I just want an answer to the question. That's all I asked for. I'm not happy about the last two games. But are we seriously going to sit here and say the former WR coach for the Packers doesn't know what he's doing? Are we really going to say that our HC that was heralded by literally EVERYONE as an offensive genius just plain sucks?

That doesn't make any sense. There is something bigger here than "our staff just sucks". They can't just suck because 90% of this board said this was the best staff we've ever assembled. But now all of a sudden they suck? I'm not that gullible. People are pissed and rightfully so. But I think the biggest issue is people aren't getting their expectations met, they don't know why, and the easiest thing to do is emotionally point the finger at the new guy without dissecting what might really be going on.

-Can't remember how they did, but the one team that comes to mind was when Nutt left Arkansas.

-a little more than 15 years ago but Saban leaving LSU

However I don't see us even winning 6 games, if that happens we will finish well below last year's finish.

[BrunswickDawg]

I can't think of one because so few coaches at P5 schools "move up" after that long of a stay. Most that move up have a 3 and out like James Franklin. Tubberville leaving OM after 4 for AU was close. Someone given 5 years usually stays for the long haul or gets fired.

[MetEdDawg]

Dan's recruiting is hurting us on the offensive side of the ball. Our OT's should be able to pass block.

And this to me is what I've been trying to get at all night. What the hell do you tell a kid that let's a DE fly right past him? Kids like Reese and Eiland have been playing OL for a damn long time. What magic wand do you wave to a kid that's been pass blocking at the high school and college level for 6-7 years.

This is why Fitz sucks at passing. We never passed the ball down the field because our OL suck and they have always sucked. But Mullen covered it up by doing his thing. Moorhead is trying to do his thing but that is getting us losses. Moorhead has shown his willingness to adapt, but he doesn't have what he needs to execute his offense and that's a recipe for what we have seen these last two games. No flow, no rhythm, and a lot of mistakes.

[BrunswickDawg]

-Can't remember how they did, but the one team that comes to mind was when Nutt left Arkansas.

-a little more than 15 years ago but Saban leaving LSU

However I don't see us even winning 6 games, if that happens we will finish well below last year's finish.

Nutt didn't move up to a better program and he was fired, and Arky went 5-7 in Petrino's first year, so that doesn't count. Saban moving up to the NFL doesn't count either

[Charlie_Sheen420]

I would like to know over the last 15 years how many P5 programs had a HC of 5+ years leave for a better job, then do as well or better than the previous year with the new coach.

I'm gonna support Joe Moorhead right now because I think our situation is a massive outlier and that our ability to predict what would happen was just way the hell off. But I'm truly interested to know how many of these situations occur and how the teams do when they hire a new coach.

It’s a little bit over 15 years but Miami had butch davis for 5 years and then won the natty with Larry C the first year I believe

[Really Clark?]

Oregon was able to transition 3 times in a row but they stayed within the program each time so the system stayed the same.

Stanford but Harbaugh was only there 4 years before Shaw took over and has continued with better results.

Larry Coaker did better than Butch Davis at Miami his first 2 years but then trended down, again hired from within

Doba matched Mike Price’s record his first year (10-3) after Price took the Bama job. Again hired from within the program but he didn’t last.

[Todd4State]

And this to me is what I've been trying to get at all night. What the hell do you tell a kid that let's a DE fly right past him? Kids like Reese and Eiland have been playing OL for a damn long time. What magic wand do you wave to a kid that's been pass blocking at the high school and college level for 6-7 years.

This is why Fitz sucks at passing. We never passed the ball down the field because our OL suck and they have always sucked. But Mullen covered it up by doing his thing. Moorhead is trying to do his thing but that is getting us losses. Moorhead has shown his willingness to adapt, but he doesn't have what he needs to execute his offense and that's a recipe for what we have seen these last two games. No flow, no rhythm, and a lot of mistakes.

If I'm Joe I'm going out and getting a bunch of JUCO OL, WR, and a JUCO QB.

[Coursesuper]

If I'm Joe I'm going out and getting a bunch of JUCO OL, WR, and a JUCO QB.

There is a good QB at Perk.

[BrunswickDawg]

It’s a little bit over 15 years but Miami had butch davis for 5 years and then won the natty with Larry C the first year I believe

If you count coaches moving to the pros as a better job, then Miami may be about only school to pull this off regularly. Schnellenber retired after a Natty, bring in Jimmy Johnson. Johnson goes 8-5 in year 1 but builds to a Natty. Goes to Cowboys after 5, bring in Dennis Erikson - who wins Natty in year 1. Erickson leaves after 6 - last season 10-2; Butch Davis takes over and goes 8-5, and builds Cokers team.

[Rejlector84sports]

It's an ego thing with Moorhead and his staff.

Consider this: what if you were hired to run a successful company that has a string of success? Would you continue to do what has been successful for many years and slowly make changes to fit your ideas? Or are you going to throw out the successful plan and force an immediate change in how things are done?

The important thing in this is the success State had with Mullen -- it was his players, his staff, and his wins. That is how the team is built and how it does best. Moorhead apparently thinks what he did with McSourely and Barkley would work immediately with this team.

While it is normal for a change in a team when there is success lacking, I have never seen a team that was so talented keep that success after a coaching change. New coaches want things done their way, and we now see what happens when you try to force a new system when a new one isn't needed.

[Coach007]

I just want an answer to the question. That's all I asked for. I'm not happy about the last two games. But are we seriously going to sit here and say the former WR coach for the Packers doesn't know what he's doing? Are we really going to say that our HC that was heralded by literally EVERYONE as an offensive genius just plain sucks?

That doesn't make any sense. There is something bigger here than "our staff just sucks". They can't just suck because 90% of this board said this was the best staff we've ever assembled. But now all of a sudden they suck? I'm not that gullible. People are pissed and rightfully so. But I think the biggest issue is people aren't getting their expectations met, they don't know why, and the easiest thing to do is emotionally point the finger at the new guy without dissecting what might really be going on.

Yes... we are going to say the truth.

1- the former WR coach for the packers is not the OC calling plays.

2- Please compare recruiting classes.

[MetEdDawg]

Oregon was able to transition 3 times in a row but they stayed within the program each time so the system stayed the same.

Stanford but Harbaugh was only there 4 years before Shaw took over and has continued with better results.

Larry Coaker did better than Butch Davis at Miami his first 2 years but then trended down, again hired from within

Doba matched Mike Price’s record his first year (10-3) after Price took the Bama job. Again hired from within the program but he didn’t last.

This is good stuff right here. My biggest point was that I think we are a massive outlier and some of this proves that. We had a coach for 9 years. Virtually the entire staff left. Had to replace from outside the program.

We can talk about talent all we want, but programs aren't going through what we had to go through. We didn't hire from within. We aren't a brand name that recruits well. We lost the best coach our program ever had and replace him after 9 seasons.

I think people are pissed that we aren't living up to expectations based on what would have happened if Dan stayed. How many programs maintain their status when an established coach leaves? Virtually none is the answer. I think our fan base is having a tough time understanding why this is happening. Well we did all this stuff last year. Why aren't we doing better now? Well this isn't last year and a lot of stuff has changed. New philosophy, new terminology, new coaches, new culture, new everything.

We are in a spot virtually no program has been in for the last 15 years and we don't know how to handle that right now. This is going to be a bumpy road and not look pretty. I hate this happened. But I think we are a victim of shitty timing with Mullen leaving. This team probably wins 9 or 10 with Dan because of familiarity with the players and their familiarity with the system. But it didn't work out like that.

[WPDawg]

I just want an answer to the question. That's all I asked for. I'm not happy about the last two games. But are we seriously going to sit here and say the former WR coach for the Packers doesn't know what he's doing? Are we really going to say that our HC that was heralded by literally EVERYONE as an offensive genius just plain sucks?

That doesn't make any sense. There is something bigger here than "our staff just sucks". They can't just suck because 90% of this board said this was the best staff we've ever assembled. But now all of a sudden they suck? I'm not that gullible. People are pissed and rightfully so. But I think the biggest issue is people aren't getting their expectations met, they don't know why, and the easiest thing to do is emotionally point the finger at the new guy without dissecting what might really be going on.

Well said. Defense has played well enough. And if Mitchell makes that catch tonight and we make a few offensive plays against KY in first 3 quarters, we are sitting here possibly 5-0. Sometimes there is a thin line between wins and losses. Moorhead raised the expectations of our offense with his arrival. To see the offense sputter is tough to swallow but if you lose the battle at the line, then an offense is going to suffer. Our OL has to raise their game. I am not smart enough to evaluate the techniques of the game, but it doesn't seem like our receivers are always getting to the right spots or enough separation for Fitz to thread it in there. He made some good throws tonight and a couple poor ones to open receivers. As it is, the new offensive wrinkle brought in by Moorhead has not gelled for this team.


What is even tougher than the loss is the complete meltdown on fans on a message board (similar to what has happened in Baseball and basketball when things looked bleak). I support Moorhead to get the program where we compete for the West each year. The man is only 5 games in and 2 games in to the SEC. Give him the opportunity to make things happen. Sometimes you have to regress to get better. Sucks to lose but you need everyone behind the team in support to get to where you want to be.


Great crowd and atmosphere tonight! Bring on Auburn! Hail State!

[Dawg61]

Wisconsin lost Bielema and got better.

[Mobile Bay]

I just want an answer to the question. That's all I asked for. I'm not happy about the last two games. But are we seriously going to sit here and say the former WR coach for the Packers doesn't know what he's doing? Are we really going to say that our HC that was heralded by literally EVERYONE as an offensive genius just plain sucks?

That doesn't make any sense. There is something bigger here than "our staff just sucks". They can't just suck because 90% of this board said this was the best staff we've ever assembled. But now all of a sudden they suck? I'm not that gullible. People are pissed and rightfully so. But I think the biggest issue is people aren't getting their expectations met, they don't know why, and the easiest thing to do is emotionally point the finger at the new guy without dissecting what might really be going on.

Sylvester Croom had an extensive NFL resume including time with the Packers before we hired him.

[MetEdDawg]

Yes... we are going to say the truth.

1- the former WR coach for the packers is not the OC calling plays.

2- Please compare recruiting classes.

Ok I will. 2018 Florida finished ahead of us. 2017 Florida finished ahead of us. 2016 Florida finished ahead of us. 2014 Florida finished ahead of us.

Only year we finished ahead of Florida was 2015 and that was by 3 spots. In 2014 they were Top 10. In 2016 they were #12.

So their kids that are sophomores and seniors were in Top 10 and Top 12 classes. So Florida doesn't exactly have a talent issue do they?

As far as WR goes, we've had a bunch of people bitching about them. These are the same guys that stunk last year. There are a lot of things that 9 years in a program can do to help you cover up stuff. This staff doesn't have the benefit of that. Our lack of talent was exposed tonight by a team I've already proved has more of it.

I think we all need to step up and say we were wrong about how talented this team is. Defensively we are fine. Gave up only 13 points. But we suck offensively and Mullen covered it up schematically very well. You can't cover it up against the big boys which is why we lost to them so many times in blowout fashion.

[MetEdDawg]

Wisconsin lost Bielema and got better.

Was Arkansas a promotion for him? Additionally, Chryst played at Wisconsin as a QB and coached there for 6 years. So he might have been new coming from Pitt but it wasn't like he didn't know or understand the program. That dude was Wisconsin. Bled for Wisconsin. So they may have gotten somewhat better (Beilema won 10 or more 4 times in 7 years) but let's not act like they had to hire from outside like we did.

They hired a Wisconsin guy to take over.

[Really Clark?]

Wisconsin lost Bielema and got better.

Kinda but Gary Anderson was only there 2 years and Cryst has done better than Bielema. Again though a lot of that has to do with Alvarez building the program and staying heavily involved all of these years.

[BrunswickDawg]

Ok I will. 2018 Florida finished ahead of us. 2017 Florida finished ahead of us. 2016 Florida finished ahead of us. 2014 Florida finished ahead of us.

Only year we finished ahead of Florida was 2015 and that was by 3 spots. In 2014 they were Top 10. In 2016 they were #12.

So their kids that are sophomores and seniors were in Top 10 and Top 12 classes. So Florida doesn't exactly have a talent issue do they?

As far as WR goes, we've had a bunch of people bitching about them. These are the same guys that stunk last year. There are a lot of things that 9 years in a program can do to help you cover up stuff. This staff doesn't have the benefit of that. Our lack of talent was exposed tonight by a team I've already proved has more of it.

I think we all need to step up and say we were wrong about how talented this team is. Defensively we are fine. Gave up only 13 points. But we suck offensively and Mullen covered it up schematically very well. You can't cover it up against the big boys which is why we lost to them so many times in blowout fashion.

It’s actually somewhat impressive at how Dan was able to cover up our lack of WR talent schematically over the long haul. We only ever had average WR at best - never close to NFL talent like almost all our competitors had. (Yes, I know we had 3-4 WR make NFL rosters but name one who made an impact at the next level). I really feel like 2014 was the only year we ever had WR who could get open.

[Homedawg]

I would like to know over the last 15 years how many P5 programs had a HC of 5+ years leave for a better job, then do as well or better than the previous year with the new coach.

I'm gonna support Joe Moorhead right now because I think our situation is a massive outlier and that our ability to predict what would happen was just way the hell off. But I'm truly interested to know how many of these situations occur and how the teams do when they hire a new coach.

Good for you. He sucks. I didn't need tonight to figure it out. It just cemented it.

[Homedawg]

I just want an answer to the question. That's all I asked for. I'm not happy about the last two games. But are we seriously going to sit here and say the former WR coach for the Packers doesn't know what he's doing? Are we really going to say that our HC that was heralded by literally EVERYONE as an offensive genius just plain sucks?

That doesn't make any sense. There is something bigger here than "our staff just sucks". They can't just suck because 90% of this board said this was the best staff we've ever assembled. But now all of a sudden they suck? I'm not that gullible. People are pissed and rightfully so. But I think the biggest issue is people aren't getting their expectations met, they don't know why, and the easiest thing to do is emotionally point the finger at the new guy without dissecting what might really be going on.

Ok well answer this, we could run the ball last year w the same player against better defenses and now we can't. What's different? Scheme and coaches. So yeah, at this point he sucks.

[MetEdDawg]

Good for you. He sucks. I didn't need tonight to figure it out. It just cemented it.

Good for you. Don't go. I'll take your tickets and up my Bulldog Club giving.

I just think it's interesting this fan base thinks it's right and that they couldn't possibly be wrong 5 games into the season.

[MetEdDawg]

Ok well answer this, we could run the ball last year w the same player against better defenses and now we can't. What's different? Scheme and coaches. So yeah, at this point he sucks.


How do you call run plays? Let's run right this time. Ok maybe next time let's run left. I think our OL is struggling with terminology, assignments, and protection in a new offense. And I think my theory has a hell of a lot more ability to be proven than yours which is just Moorhead sucks.

[WPDawg]

I just want an answer to the question. That's all I asked for. I'm not happy about the last two games. But are we seriously going to sit here and say the former WR coach for the Packers doesn't know what he's doing? Are we really going to say that our HC that was heralded by literally EVERYONE as an offensive genius just plain sucks?

That doesn't make any sense. There is something bigger here than "our staff just sucks". They can't just suck because 90% of this board said this was the best staff we've ever assembled. But now all of a sudden they suck? I'm not that gullible. People are pissed and rightfully so. But I think the biggest issue is people aren't getting their expectations met, they don't know why, and the easiest thing to do is emotionally point the finger at the new guy without dissecting what might really be going on.

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