Question for Beef Experts: Prime VS Choice VS Ungraded

[Bully13]

Would be interested in the specifics of the differences.

I go to Winco to get my beef here in Ft Worth. they have this vacuum packed beef tenderloin that says "ungraded" on it. It's like $6.70 a lb or so. You do have some fat on it that has to be carved off as you slice up your steaks from the big "tube" of beef.

I have found it to be much better than choice rib eyes or NY strips. It has a VERY filet mignon taste and texture to it. I'm sure a prime cut filet would be better but I'm convinced that in NO WAY would it be 3 X better (price and shit)

What's the experts opinion on this?

[Prediction? Pain.]

I'm interested in people's opinions on this as well. I use only local, dry-aged, grass-fed briskets for my smokes and have always thought that my results were superior to any grade of grain-fed brisket I've had at a restaurant. But I've also never ponied up for prime or Wagyu brisket -- unless some of the BBQ joints that I've visited in bigger cities use those cuts without letting on -- to compare with my locally sourced ones. I've seriously thought about springing for a Waygu brisket from Snake River Farms and I likely will eventually. Bummer that they come frozen, but so it goes.

While I can't directly answer your question, 13, I can provide more crap for you to read on the topic (that seems to be my M.O., doesn't it?):

https://amazingribs.com/tested-recipes/beef-and-bison-recipes/buying-beef-beef-grades-and-labels-and-busting-kobe-beef-myth

https://www.texasmonthly.com/bbq/what-i-learned-at-brisket-camp/

The first link is for a comprehensive article on point. It's got pictures to compare marbling in the different grades, detailed descriptions of each grade, and a brief history of beef grading and production in the U.S.A. The second is about Texas "Brisket Camp." It's not focused solely on beef grades, but it contains a brief account of side-by-side tastings of multiple grades of brisket. The writer's takeaway was that there was a negligible difference between well-smoked CAB, Prime, and Waygu brisket.

[Bully13]

Thanks pain, bad news for me though. Grilled some Saturday that had sub par texture and taste. Finally got burned I guess. Sucks because the 5 previous times they were like filet mignons.

[BeastMan]

I’ve been in the food business for approaching 20 years but I’m not an end all be all. I’ll give you a few opinions of mine.

-Choice meat is underrated. Especially certified angus choice.
-A lot of “high-end” steakhouses don’t use prime steak in a very sneaky manner and the general public is clueless
-Don't waste money on prime for a filet. Filets have very little fat and marbling. Very little difference in prime vs choice filet
-Don’t waste money on a high-end cut for a low-end method. What I mean: slow cooking, braising, etc... are methods created to make cheap tough cuts tender and palpable. Like a brisket. I’d never buy anything but choice for prime rib.
-Wagyu is overhyped. Notice I didn’t say overrated. It’s damn good but it’s damn near not beef. It’s so rich and buttery. You be better served pairing it with a dainty white than a dry red. Personally I prefer a dry aged prime or CA steak
-wagyu burgers or any other low-end product is bs. Marketing. Choice 70/30 is just as good.
-The bone-in every cut trend is ridiculous. Leaving dumb bone bits on a filet does nothing but make you pay more. That said, a traditional bone-in cut like a porterhouse is the real deal.
-If you buy a high-end cut and you cook it any other way than high heat, you’re doimg it wrong. The reverse sear is the new hot application but the best steakhouses in the world use high heat broilers. We’re talking 800 degrees. The high heat seals in more flavor.
-Select grade meat is not always terrible. If I find a steal on select ribeyes, that might be a cut I’d marinate for fajita night. If you have a good eye for selecting steak, you can find the occasional steal on select grade meat.

[Howboutdemdogs]

Interesting information. Well appreciated.

[BeastMan]

I forgot a really big one. Corn fed vs grass fed beef. I’m no scientist but from everything I’ve read there is no doubt that grass fed beef is much healthier. Cows are genetically wired to eat grass, not corn. However, grass fed beef does not hold a candle to corn fed beef. I’ve done side by side numerous times at home and it’s not even close.

[robert]

The ungraded tender was from a cull cow most likely...it's the backstrap and will be tender, but not as flavorful as a choice tender from a steer that has been on grain...The rest of the cow is boned and ends up in hot dogs, balogna, ground beef,etc. Grain adds marbeling and marbeling adds flavor to beef. Thanks for eating beef..I'm a 4th generation cattleman...worked in packing plants when I was a kid, long ago.

[robert]

I’ve been in the food business for approaching 20 years but I’m not an end all be all. I’ll give you a few opinions of mine.

-Choice meat is underrated. Especially certified angus choice.
-A lot of “high-end” steakhouses don’t use prime steak in a very sneaky manner and the general public is clueless
-Don't waste money on prime for a filet. Filets have very little fat and marbling. Very little difference in prime vs choice filet
-Don’t waste money on a high-end cut for a low-end method. What I mean: slow cooking, braising, etc... are methods created to make cheap tough cuts tender and palpable. Like a brisket. I’d never buy anything but choice for prime rib.
-Wagyu is overhyped. Notice I didn’t say overrated. It’s damn good but it’s damn near not beef. It’s so rich and buttery. You be better served pairing it with a dainty white than a dry red. Personally I prefer a dry aged prime or CA steak
-wagyu burgers or any other low-end product is bs. Marketing. Choice 70/30 is just as good.
-The bone-in every cut trend is ridiculous. Leaving dumb bone bits on a filet does nothing but make you pay more. That said, a traditional bone-in cut like a porterhouse is the real deal.
-If you buy a high-end cut and you cook it any other way than high heat, you’re doimg it wrong. The reverse sear is the new hot application but the best steakhouses in the world use high heat broilers. We’re talking 800 degrees. The high heat seals in more flavor.
-Select grade meat is not always terrible. If I find a steal on select ribeyes, that might be a cut I’d marinate for fajita night. If you have a good eye for selecting steak, you can find the occasional steal on select grade meat.

Excellent points!

[BeastMan]

The ungraded tender was from a cull cow most likely...it's the backstrap and will be tender, but not as flavorful as a choice tender from a steer that has been on grain...The rest of the cow is boned and ends up in hot dogs, balogna, ground beef,etc. Grain adds marbeling and marbeling adds flavor to beef. Thanks for eating beef..I'm a 4th generation cattleman...worked in packing plants when I was a kid, long ago.


Yep. My wife likes those cheap bacon wrapped filets that’s in every grocery store . We all know that isn’t really filet.

[Prediction? Pain.]

I forgot a really big one. Corn fed vs grass fed beef. I?m no scientist but from everything I?ve read there is no doubt that grass fed beef is much healthier. Cows are genetically wired to eat grass, not corn. However, grass fed beef does not hold a candle to corn fed beef. I?ve done side by side numerous times at home and it?s not even close.

I've read the same thing about bovine health when it comes to grass vs. grain. Grain can accelerate growth and increase yields, but apparently its effects on the animals' digestive tracts (acidosis, etc.) have to be mitigated. Or something like that. So says a 2013 article I stumbled upon via the National Institutes of Health:


It is a common practice to feed ruminant animals [an] amount of [grain] concentrate to accelerate milk production and body weight gain. However, feeding diets high in readily fermentable carbohydrates increases the odds of developing subacute ruminal acidosis (SARA) and decreases the long-term productive performance of beef and milk (Stone, 2004). In addition, numerous studies have recently demonstrated that feeding cattle diets rich in highly degradable carbohydrates results in disorders such as acidosis, fatty liver, laminitis, liver abscesses, displaced abomasum, and bloat (Nocek, 1997; Ametaj et al., 2005). Although the exact mechanisms underlying the relationship between feeding large amounts of cereal grains and the high incidence of metabolic diseases is not yet completely understood, research has described several events associated with feeding high grain diets. For example, digestion of increasing amounts of cereal grains was shown to initiate major changes in the composition of microbiota in favor of Gram-negative bacteria (Dunlop, 1972). Additionally, other researchers found that bacterial alterations were associated with the release of large amounts of lipopolysaccharide (LPS), a cell-wall component of all Gram-negative bacteria, in the rumen fluid (Nagaraja et al., 1978; Andersen et al., 1994; Gozho et al., 2006; Li et al., 2012). This increase in luminal LPS could increase rumen permeability, lead to the translocation of LPS or other immunogenic compounds into circulation, and trigger systemic inflammatory response (Ametaj et al., 2007; Khafipour et al., 2009).

As for the quality difference and the marbling levels, my experience has been different, at least when it comes to brisket. Of the thirty or so briskets that I've smoked over the past decade, most have been from local small farms that either feed their cattle exclusively forage or forage until the last few months before slaughter when they're finished with grain. But I've also smoked a handful of regular supermarket briskets that I assume are fed whatever most cows get on feedlots that supply grocery chains. And then I've had plenty of brisket at BBQ joints, none of which was ever advertised as anything special, be it local or grass fed or prime or whatever.

I've never found the grass fed stuff -- whether grain finished or not -- to be any less tender or flavorful or moist than the stuff I get in restaurants or the stuff I buy from the grocery store. In fact, I usually find the ones I buy from local grass-heavy ranchers to be the most flavorful. "Beefy" is the only way I can describe it, though some BBQ writers (like the Meathead over at Amazing Ribs) use "minerality" or some other wine-sounding gibber jabber when they talk about it. And among those cuts, the factor that I've found usually makes the most difference is dry aging. Those that are dry aged tend to be even more flavorful.

Now, I'll freely admit that I'm not comparing my stuff to prime or waygu or some other expensive beef that's been engineered and cultivated from inception to produce ridiculously marbled meat. I'm also not going to claim that my experience with briskets would translate to other cuts of beef. Brisket is so fatty and marbled to begin with, maybe the fat differences between grass- and grain-heavy animals is less discernible than it would be in other, leaner cuts. All I got is what I've tasted cook after cook with the briskets.

For what it's worth, by the way, I was reading an article recently about this very subject that claims the marbling and flavor differences between grass and grain fed cattle is overblown on both sides of the aisle. It's a study out of a New Zeland agricultural journal from the late 1990s (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288233.1998.9513346). It gets a little technical with muscle pH and enzymes in meat tissue, but the gist was that when you're comparing cows of the same size and fat cover, the food source didn't affect jack.

Which of course demonstrates that the whole Pepsi-challenge spiel I wrote above is very possibly a big ole pile of crap.