State as a program in the SEC

[BB30]

Do y?all feel our football culture and winning has taken a permanent change?

Do you feel like we have truly elevated into the top 4-5 programs in the sec and are here to stay?

What will it take to get into that top 2-4? Is it attainable?

Was thinking about this watching Florida last night. Without a doubt in my mind our program as a whole is light years ahead of where they are.

Have we gotten to a point with the exposure and tv money that we are on a level playing field with the Floridas, bamas, Auburn?s, ugas etc.in relative terms?

Personally I think we have caught a bunch of teams and passed several up. If joe turns out to be what we all think he?ll be we have to do whatever we can to keep him. I think all we are missing is our Snyder.

All in all I?m excited about where our program is and think we are knocking on the door of being a top 4-6 program. It?s a good time to be a dawg.

[ScottH]

Just a guess but I think we are at a point in 3 out of 4 years we are 6-10 in the league and the other 1 year we are top 5.

Barring a setback we have moved out of bottom 1/3.

[Tbonewannabe]

Just a guess but I think we are at a point in 3 out of 4 years we are 6-10 in the league and the other 1 year we are top 5.

Barring a setback we have moved out of bottom 1/3.

I would agree with this. I think it will take a National Title and around a decade of Citrus bowl or better level to really get a more permanent change from the media. It will also help having NFL players that are high level like Dak and Fletcher Cox. Dak is probably more important because of endorsement deals and popularity outside of NFL fans.

[ShotgunDawg]

Do y?all feel our football culture and winning has taken a permanent change?

Do you feel like we have truly elevated into the top 4-5 programs in the sec and are here to stay?

What will it take to get into that top 2-4? Is it attainable?

Was thinking about this watching Florida last night. Without a doubt in my mind our program as a whole is light years ahead of where they are.

Have we gotten to a point with the exposure and tv money that we are on a level playing field with the Floridas, bamas, Auburn?s, ugas etc.in relative terms?

Personally I think we have caught a bunch of teams and passed several up. If joe turns out to be what we all think he?ll be we have to do whatever we can to keep him. I think all we are missing is our Snyder.

All in all I?m excited about where our program is and think we are knocking on the door of being a top 4-6 program. It?s a good time to be a dawg.

1. I think our fans believe we can win but the crowds need to consistently be better. We need more commitment.

2. Can we be top 2-4? Not unless recruiting gets to a reload point, which will be tough considering our state population, the state brain drain, and social issues within the state cause many highly ranked players to leave the state. We currently can reload to be a 6-8 win team but we don't stack classes well enough to be a top 2-4 program.

3. We are currently a better program than Florida, but their ceiling is higher. Meaning, we could win for 10 years and slowly improve but Florida could stink, get the right coach, and be a natty contender in 3 years. We can't flip the switch like them.

4. Are we on a level playing field? No. They can cheat in recruiting and get the benefit of the doubt, while also being able sell the self fulfilling prophecy of recruiting. "Come here because we win". Lastly, we've got to offer a more prestigious academic degree. I think that hurts us on the margins.

5. Every team in the country has resources that defines what should be its expected production as a program. Those resources aren't just money. They include money, local recruiting ground, school culture, facilities, passion, etc. what I would say is that MSU finally has a program that meets the average production of what its' resources should allow it to produce when for most of our history due to poor leadership, games in Jackson, etc we had been under producing what we should. LSU underproduced for decades as Texas A&M, Florida, & Tennessee currently are.

[Pit Bull]

The original SEC Bluebloods were BAMA, AUB, LSU, UT, UGA, and UT back when there were 10 teams in the conference. Some refer to them as the SEC Elites. The Big Money schools, so to speak. UF was the weakest of those 6 until Steve Spurrier became their coach. Ole Miss was the next in line just under those six with Johnny Vaught at the helm. MSU, Vandy, KY rounded out the bottom. Now, that the conference has expanded, it has weakened UT and UF a bit. TAMU and SC seem to be the most successful newly expanded teams. Arkansas was a power in the SWC, but has struggled in football to regain that form in the SEC. MSU has had mixed success with Sherrill and Mullen and now seem poised to do well with Moorhead. Inside our state of MS, MSU turned the corner on competing with Ole Miss in 1974 and Bob Tyler as coach. Ever since we have pretty much gone back and forth with the Rebels.....but at least we stopped their domination of us. The Mullen years have actually been some of our most successful. So, IMO, we are right at the door of consistent success provided we can keep coaching turnover to a minimum. TAMU with Fisher may be about to take some spotlight away from us in the coming years. I feel we are ahead of or equal to KY, VU, OM, MIZZ, UT, SC, and ARK. Sort of competing in the middle third of the SEC pack. And we may be ahead of UF as they appear to be nose diving. So yes...we are moving up due to a combination of improving our product and with others having their product descend. We are not in the SEC cream of the crop yet. That would be BAMA, AUB, UGA, and LSU IMO. If JoMo can prove he can consistently recruit enough 4 and 5 star players every year, then we may move into the bottom of the top level and possibly upset a few of them. BAMA is the main one we need to knock off. Haven't had a win over them in quite a while. Our droughts against BAMA need to be shortened considerably before we will get the respect.

[Todd4State]

The best resource I think we have are our fans loyalty and patience.

I think what also holds us back sometimes is our fans loyalty and patience.

We support coaches and are more patient than most fan bases. I would say based on Felker and Croom you're basically going to get five years to fail at MSU. I would also say based on Jackie and Dan and maybe even Emory to an extent- if you have some success here you are going to get a LOT more leeway. That patience sometimes pays off in the form of stability which allows us to pass those who are less patient than us even if for a brief period of time- like Tennessee or in the late 90's- Alabama.

The bad thing is that loyalty sometimes gets in the way of improvement and the way that most improvement comes is in a complete regime change for us it seems. Jackie should have gotten a lot more heat for embarrassing losses to people like ULM and being non-existent when we lost games to LSU or were completely blown out. Dan should have gotten a lot more pressure for his lack of recruiting, being a wuss in big games, and constantly looking around for other jobs. There is a general paranoia among MSU fans about running the coach off and screwing things up. We have too many fans and Internet personalities that don't understand constructive criticism vs. complaining to complain. (For example "What does it take to make you people happy?")

A lot of MSU fans aren't going to like this- but I think a big weakness is as a group in general we have more fans that undervalue recruiting in football. We need to do a better job of targeting players like Cam Akers and doing whatever needs to be done to get them to MSU instead of making excuses like "but his coach wasn't going to let him come to MSU".

[Todd4State]

1. I think our fans believe we can win but the crowds need to consistently be better. We need more commitment.

2. Can we be top 2-4? Not unless recruiting gets to a reload point, which will be tough considering our state population, the state brain drain, and social issues within the state cause many highly ranked players to leave the state. We currently can reload to be a 6-8 win team but we don't stack classes well enough to be a top 2-4 program.

3. We are currently a better program than Florida, but their ceiling is higher. Meaning, we could win for 10 years and slowly improve but Florida could stink, get the right coach, and be a natty contender in 3 years. We can't flip the switch like them.

4. Are we on a level playing field? No. They can cheat in recruiting and get the benefit of the doubt, while also being able sell the self fulfilling prophecy of recruiting. "Come here because we win". Lastly, we've got to offer a more prestigious academic degree. I think that hurts us on the margins.

5. Every team in the country has resources that defines what should be its expected production as a program. Those resources aren't just money. They include money, local recruiting ground, school culture, facilities, passion, etc. what I would say is that MSU finally has a program that meets the average production of what its' resources should allow it to produce when for most of our history due to poor leadership, games in Jackson, etc we had been under producing what we should. LSU underproduced for decades as Texas A&M, Florida, & Tennessee currently are.

I think attendance was a problem because of Dan. Our season ticket sells went up this year. We had a good crowd for Stephen F Austin. When your coach doesn't give you a chance to win because he is a wuss as a play caller people eventually see it enough times to lose confidence and go do something else like kill deer instead because why bother?

[BrunswickDawg]

The best resource I think we have are our fans loyalty and patience.

I think what also holds us back sometimes is our fans loyalty and patience.

We support coaches and are more patient than most fan bases. I would say based on Felker and Croom you're basically going to get five years to fail at MSU. I would also say based on Jackie and Dan and maybe even Emory to an extent- if you have some success here you are going to get a LOT more leeway. That patience sometimes pays off in the form of stability which allows us to pass those who are less patient than us even if for a brief period of time- like Tennessee or in the late 90's- Alabama.

The bad thing is that loyalty sometimes gets in the way of improvement and the way that most improvement comes is in a complete regime change for us it seems. Jackie should have gotten a lot more heat for embarrassing losses to people like ULM and being non-existent when we lost games to LSU or were completely blown out. Dan should have gotten a lot more pressure for his lack of recruiting, being a wuss in big games, and constantly looking around for other jobs. There is a general paranoia among MSU fans about running the coach off and screwing things up. We have too many fans and Internet personalities that don't understand constructive criticism vs. complaining to complain. (For example "What does it take to make you people happy?")

A lot of MSU fans aren't going to like this- but I think a big weakness is as a group in general we have more fans that undervalue recruiting in football. We need to do a better job of targeting players like Cam Akers and doing whatever needs to be done to get them to MSU instead of making excuses like "but his coach wasn't going to let him come to MSU".

You seem to forget that Jackie was a dead man walking in 1996. He got a lot of heat for losing those games and having gotten us on probation with an LOIC charge to boot. https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCaseView/report?id=101761

It took a miracle win against Bama to save his job - or we would have been looking at having Bobby Wallace as HC and tumbling down the ladder again.

[Behrdawg]

So you just said we were light years ahead of Florida and then you asked if we were on a level playing field with them. Which one is it?

[bostondawg]

We are not equivalent to the Big 6 yet. It'll take winning the west before any real perception of us outside of Starkville changes. Sorry, is what it is.

[MetEdDawg]

We won't be Top 4 in this league until we start bringing in more money as a university for athletics. Alabama, Auburn, and Georgia are going to stay at the top for the forseeable future because of funding. It's not a coincidence that they are at the top almost every year in football. From last year's data, Bama was 2nd, Auburn was 3rd, and Georgia was 4th in revenue. The only outlier was Tennessee at #1. But when your program is a dumpster fire those things happen.

We need to increase revenue so that we can continue to attract solid assistant coaches, recruit more consistently, and continue to add to the experiences that we are able to offer student athletes and fans. Our revenue was 35.47 million dollars in 2016. Could anyone imagine what would happen to our university if we were able to get to South Carolina's level just under $60 million? Would make a huge difference.

If I had to put a number on it in football, I would say overall we are #6-7 right now. Bama, Auburn, Georgia, clearly ahead of us. LSU, Florida and SC probably ahead of us in name recognition even though we have been better than them over the last 5 years in football. So I think #7 is probably where we fall in terms of a combination of name recognition and on the field performance.

[Liverpooldawg]

Do y?all feel our football culture and winning has taken a permanent change?

Do you feel like we have truly elevated into the top 4-5 programs in the sec and are here to stay?

What will it take to get into that top 2-4? Is it attainable?

Was thinking about this watching Florida last night. Without a doubt in my mind our program as a whole is light years ahead of where they are.

Have we gotten to a point with the exposure and tv money that we are on a level playing field with the Floridas, bamas, Auburn?s, ugas etc.in relative terms?

Personally I think we have caught a bunch of teams and passed several up. If joe turns out to be what we all think he?ll be we have to do whatever we can to keep him. I think all we are missing is our Snyder.

All in all I?m excited about where our program is and think we are knocking on the door of being a top 4-6 program. It?s a good time to be a dawg.

Nothing is permanent but death and taxes. I'm still not completely sold on THIS year yet. We have played a bad FCS team and a team that nearly lost to a FCS team. We looked good in most phases Saturday but we are going to have to be able to pass the ball better to hang with the better SEc teams. We certainly aren't in the top four permanently.

[Liverpooldawg]

I think attendance was a problem because of Dan. Our season ticket sells went up this year. We had a good crowd for Stephen F Austin. When your coach doesn't give you a chance to win because he is a wuss as a play caller people eventually see it enough times to lose confidence and go do something else like kill deer instead because why bother?

We had 54k for SFA. That's a lot of empty seats.

[LC Dawg]

Bama
Teams That Can Beat Bama - AU, GA
Teams That Can't Beat Bama But Can Beat Anyone Else In The Conference - MSU, LSU, SC, A&M
Teams That Can Win All OOC Games and Enough Conference Games To Go To A Bowl - FL, Mizzou, KY
Teams That Aren't Very Good - Vandy, Arky, TN
Teams That Won't Go To a Bowl Because They Are on Probation Because The Only Way They Know How To Accomplish Success is to Cheat - UM

We are just as good of a program right now as LSU and A&M and better than FL but all those programs could elevate above us quickly because of resources. As long as O is at LSU I think we'll be fine. I'm not as ready as a lot of people to anoint Jimbo and we know what FL has in Mullen.
IMO we don't have the resources to consistently be in the top 3 of the conference but if we are consistently in the top half of the conference there will be years where we are top 3.

[ShotgunDawg]

The best resource I think we have are our fans loyalty and patience.

I think what also holds us back sometimes is our fans loyalty and patience.

We support coaches and are more patient than most fan bases. I would say based on Felker and Croom you're basically going to get five years to fail at MSU. I would also say based on Jackie and Dan and maybe even Emory to an extent- if you have some success here you are going to get a LOT more leeway. That patience sometimes pays off in the form of stability which allows us to pass those who are less patient than us even if for a brief period of time- like Tennessee or in the late 90's- Alabama.

The bad thing is that loyalty sometimes gets in the way of improvement and the way that most improvement comes is in a complete regime change for us it seems. Jackie should have gotten a lot more heat for embarrassing losses to people like ULM and being non-existent when we lost games to LSU or were completely blown out. Dan should have gotten a lot more pressure for his lack of recruiting, being a wuss in big games, and constantly looking around for other jobs. There is a general paranoia among MSU fans about running the coach off and screwing things up. We have too many fans and Internet personalities that don't understand constructive criticism vs. complaining to complain. (For example "What does it take to make you people happy?")

A lot of MSU fans aren't going to like this- but I think a big weakness is as a group in general we have more fans that undervalue recruiting in football. We need to do a better job of targeting players like Cam Akers and doing whatever needs to be done to get them to MSU instead of making excuses like "but his coach wasn't going to let him come to MSU".

Agree with much here except I don't think MSU coaches will get 5 years to fail anymore. It's been proven that you can win at MSU now. I don't see the fan base being patient and giving a Croom like coach 5 years. He'd be gone after year 2 or 3 nowadays

[Dawgology]

The difference between us attaining Top 2-3 status in recruiting. It's really that simple. If we could sew up Mississippi and make it our own while pulling in a couple big targets OOS then we would contend pretty much every year.

[ShotgunDawg]

The difference between us attaining Top 2-3 status in recruiting. It's really that simple. If we could sew up Mississippi and make it our own while pulling in a couple big targets OOS then we would contend pretty much every year.

Agree. Problem is that your just not ever going to be able to "sew up" Mississippi.

You'll always have kids that just grew up Ole Miss fans & kids that just want to leave the state.

[gravedigger]

Do y?all feel our football culture and winning has taken a permanent change?

Do you feel like we have truly elevated into the top 4-5 programs in the sec and are here to stay?

What will it take to get into that top 2-4? Is it attainable?

Was thinking about this watching Florida last night. Without a doubt in my mind our program as a whole is light years ahead of where they are.

Have we gotten to a point with the exposure and tv money that we are on a level playing field with the Floridas, bamas, Auburn?s, ugas etc.in relative terms?

Personally I think we have caught a bunch of teams and passed several up. If joe turns out to be what we all think he?ll be we have to do whatever we can to keep him. I think all we are missing is our Snyder.

All in all I?m excited about where our program is and think we are knocking on the door of being a top 4-6 program. It?s a good time to be a dawg.

1. Not permanent. Nothing is in college football. But we are better than we've ever been.
2. No. And I think your statement is the wrong way to look at it. There is more parity now. The 85 scholarship limit has leveled the playing field more than it was in the past. The top and bottom of the conference are smaller. Vandy is alone at the absolute bottom where 25 years ago, it was MSU, OM, UK and Vandy. Now MSU, OM and UK are upper mid to lower middle of the pack. Bama is clearly the top and UGA is nearly there. Florida, LSU, Auburn are upper 2nd tier, but Florida and LSU are sinking. A&M, Arkansas, MSU, OM, USCe, now share the middle with LSU and Florida. Kentucky is at the bottom of this group. This is only as permanent as the head coach and his staff.
3. Joe to stay over 10 years and to have success similar or better than Mullen, but it will only be as permanent as his tenure.
4. No.
5. It is a great time for MSU and Ninja and Cohen have really helped us sustain that for now. I hope we pony up to keep the coaches we have in all sports.

[smootness]

Do you feel like we have truly elevated into the top 4-5 programs in the sec and are here to stay?

Absolutely not. Is this what our fans think?

[WPS]

TAMU and SC seem to be the most successful newly expanded teams. Arkansas was a power in the SWC, but has struggled in football to regain that form in the SEC.

I would say Arkansas has been better overall in the SEC than South Carolina, but that?s obviously changing fast. Arkansas won the division in their first 5 years in the conference and A&M hasn?t yet but it?s a lot harder these days than it was back then. South Carolina was pretty bad before about 10 years ago.

[TUSK]

1. Sell out the stadium (no exceptions) then expand it (esp donor seating) & hire a PR firm.
2. Beat OM >65% of the time (on the field & in state recruitment).
3. Don’t play ooc games on the road, ever (at least til stage 2).
4. Cheat incrementally.
5. Beat arkie, ky, & 4 ooc teams EVERY Year (no exceptions).

To be continued