Kansas State Game Thread Brought to You By Depends

[Bdawg]

Sick pick off!!!! Awesome play

[parabrave]

Someone give Fitz a chill pill. Hopefully the refs don't find a reason to overturn the int.

[ShotgunDawg]

Can Errol play WR?

[CadaverDawg]

Refs may rob us again

[Liverpooldawg]

They are reviewing this?

[DownwardDawg]

Go ahead and give it back to them.

[TimberBeast]

Can't stress enough how big a deal it was that Fitz didn't get a game in last week. Just a whole different deal throwing in live action.

It was huge, this is really our first game

[Bdawg]

They will over turn it probably

[Goldendawg]

Now, stop the game 5 minutes for a review. Ruining the pace of the games.

[VandelayIndustries]

Stop reviewing this crap, thats a catch

[HaggardDawg]

If they overturn this...

[maroonmania]

Go ahead and plan on an overturn.

[Randolph Dupree]

Refs are shit too. I'll be shocked if they don't overturn the Thompson pick....and that was a clean pick.

[CadaverDawg]

Why does it take so damn long to review a play???! For goodness sake man

[ShotgunDawg]

Refs may rob us again

Prepareth

[msstate7]

Leo (his didn't count) and Thompson have both forced TOs. Like that

[Liverpooldawg]

Here we go again. If this one is overturned they really are on the take.

[Turfdawg67]

Williams must be in the doghouse

[ShotgunDawg]

I repeat

https://twitter.com/ScoutSteveR/status/1038474553528340481

[BulldogBear]

If they overturn this one FBI needs to investigate this line

[Dawgology]

I've never seen more lopsided reffing in football. Goodness gracious. This is a joke

[bobtail bob]

cue the hose job

[mparkerfd20]

Easily incomplete. Dont know why yall fussing

[Bothrops]

Somebody from our staff should challenge these bogus refs. Get in their face, have nothing to lose obviously.

[Liverpooldawg]

Refs are shit too. I'll be shocked if they don't overturn the Thompson pick....and that was a clean pick.

They got the fumble right in the field. It's the replay guy.

[Turfdawg67]

Why does it take so damn long to review a play???! For goodness sake man

Because the Big 12 refs in the booth see one thing and the SEC refs on the field see something else.

[starkvegasdawg]

Here we go again. If this one is overturned they really are on the take.

Hearing SEC crew with Big12 replay official.

[Liverpooldawg]

If they overturn this one FBI needs to investigate this line

Yes.

[parabrave]

Are these SEC Refs? If so tell them we are not playing Bama.

[BulldogBear]

He's been offside 3 times!

They won't call it

[Goldendawg]

If they overturn this one FBI needs to investigate this line

Anyone but the FBI! Will drag out years and still be crooked!

[starkvegasdawg]

I've never seen more lopsided reffing in football. Goodness gracious. This is a joke

If they overturn this then it will be BYU level.

[Liverpooldawg]

Hearing SEC crew with Big12 replay official.

Even that doesn't explain why the line moved so much.

[Bothrops]

Easily incomplete. Dont know why yall fussing

Haha

[parabrave]

Now run the ball down their dam throat.

[Liverpooldawg]

Got that one right.

[ShotgunDawg]

Damn, Osiris. Almost broke it

[ShotgunDawg]

Atta boy

[MarketingBully]

KSU should have no points right now.

[VandelayIndustries]

Kylin hill is a monster

[CadaverDawg]

Kylin Damn Hill

[Liverpooldawg]

Run the damn ball!

[ShotgunDawg]

Kylin is an obsolute ****ing animal

[MarketingBully]

Kylin Hill is just plain awesome.

[Sacrifice]

Good lord, Kylan Hill is a FREAK!!!!

[bobtail bob]

cheat that !!!!!

[mparkerfd20]

Haha

They got it wrong but I'll take it.

[starkvegasdawg]

We are so more athletic than KSU it isn't funny.

[msstate7]

Hill blocks like a junior high wr, and runs like Walter Payton

[Turfdawg67]

Anyone but the FBI! Will drag out years and still be crooked!

Loser post

[Dawg61]

Kylin Barkley!!!

[Statecoachingblows**]

What's his avg per carry? Nice!

[Turfdawg67]

They got it wrong but I'll take it.

No they didn't

[3rdGen]

Hill Eatin errthang!!!!

[MarketingBully]

More importantly Aeris Williams first one to celebrate with him on the sidelines.

[Sacrifice]

Hill with a 16.7 yard per carry average!

[Liverpooldawg]

DL getting pushed around...

It bears repeating their offensive line is really good. They are all returning starters and one is an All-American.

[msstate7]

Hill or Akers, more yards from scrimmage this season?

[ShotgunDawg]

Joey Jones needs to work with this kickoff unit

[CadaverDawg]

Kick coverage remains an issue

[Goldendawg]

Williams giving congrats to Hill on the bench. Good man.

[HoopsDawg]

kick it in the damn endzone.

[msstate7]

Dammit special teams

[maroonmania]

Not impressed with Joey Jones' KO coverage team. Make a tackle guys!

[ShotgunDawg]

Hill or Akers, more yards from scrimmage this season?

Easy, Hill

[Maroonthirteen]

Hill is a bad man. Strong.

[Marshdawg]

Erroll T to TE!

[mparkerfd20]

No they didn't

Yeah they did but who gives a flip. We just scored. Enjoy it! Hail yeah.

[ShotgunDawg]

Come on defense. Too easy. Let's go

[CadaverDawg]

Bring pressure, Shoop! You big damn sissy

[Bdawg]

Don't give it back guys! Let's go!!!

[ShotgunDawg]

Good discipline by the defense.

That's a TD on us last year

[BrunswickDawg]

Blew up the trick play

[Dawg61]

Biggie Moorhead

[Liverpooldawg]

Hate to say it, but there is a reason UNM gets better receivers than us.

Recruiting for the Confederates I see. Why do it man? If we get receivers in this O they are going to thrive. Joe is going to get a passing QB, you can bank on that.

[Goldendawg]

Loser post

Didn't mean to sound political, meant to add***.

[Liverpooldawg]

That was a stinkng hold in the wide open field! Come on refs.

[ShotgunDawg]

Are you kidding me?

[BrunswickDawg]

Damn it Leo

[Bdawg]

Looks like some holding going on

[VandelayIndustries]

SO dumb Leo

[maroonmania]

Dang Leo!

[Liverpooldawg]

We have WAY too many penalties. That wasn't necessary. Just stupid.

[ShotgunDawg]

Terrible play by Lewis. Just awful

[Bothrops]

Get those refs names and numbers!

[HoopsDawg]

dumb penalty I guess, but it's only called 50% of the time at most.

[bobtail bob]

they were itching to make that call

[parabrave]

At least they can call the guy tackling Simmons every play.

[Bdawg]

Damn Leo!!!!!!!

[BulldogBear]

Sit the rest of the game. Can't have that shit. Ever. No exceptions. You make stupid penalty that sustains a a drive and you sit.

[DownwardDawg]

We are extremely undisciplined. We gotta clean this up.

[HoopsDawg]

dialing up some pressure finally.

[State82]

This undisciplined bs is ridiculous

[msstate7]

57 yards in penalties

[HoopsDawg]

Sit that 17er the rest of the game. Can't have that shit. Ever. No exceptions. You make stupid penalty that sustains a a drive and you sit.

relax buttercup. he took one step and pushed the QB.

[ShotgunDawg]

Our DL is owning their ass now

[msstate7]

Sweat

[Turfdawg67]

Bring pressure, Shoop! You big damn sissy

Huh? We're on the QB almost every play

[BulldogBear]

relax buttercup. he took one step and pushed the QB.

In the face. Why? No need for that under any circumstances. You have to know that you will be penalized. You have to.

Nobody dies that and gets away with it especially not MSU players. QB are the social football referree catallion darlings.

[Marshdawg]

Building rpms

[Liverpooldawg]

relax buttercup. he took one step and pushed the QB.

You can't do it. We had their offense off the field. They get the ball after the half too. That was a critical error. We are very lucky it didn't cost us points.

[ShotgunDawg]

OK. Played like shit & up 14 points.

I think we all would've taken that.

Just speaks to our talent level & potential

[CadaverDawg]

Pretty could result of the half considering the sloppiness

[TimberBeast]

Didn't mean to sound political, meant to add***.

Don?t apologize to that POS

[Dawgology]

Well. Defense played a great first half. Running game is still our strength. Passing is still our weakness.

[HoopsDawg]

In the face. Why? No need for that under any circumstances. You have to know that you will be penalized. You have to.

Nobody dies that and gets away with it especially not MSU players. QB are the social football referree catallion darlings.

he didn't push him in the face.

[CadaverDawg]

Huh? We're on the QB almost every play

Exactly! Except every time we were laying back on pressure. We have a 14 point lead, keep bringing heat, that's our strength on D

[HaggardDawg]

When they show Aeris on the sideline, I'll be honest, I feel sad for the kid.

[msstate7]

All my bitching aside, pretty impressed. We've played probably 60-65% of our best, and we're dominating

[CadaverDawg]

When they show Aeris on the sideline, I'll be honest, I feel sad for the kid.

I do too....and then Kylin makes a run and I forget my sadness

[CadaverDawg]

All my bitching aside, pretty impressed. We've played probably 60-65% of our best, and we're dominating

I feel the same

[HoopsDawg]

Got nothing out of the slot receiver position. Time to go with Mixon and move Whop back to the slot.

[TopDawg]

Where are these officials from?

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Arizona is getting obliterated by Houston. I hope A&Ms issue wasn't Sumlin.

[Dawgology]

In the face. Why? No need for that under any circumstances. You have to know that you will be penalized. You have to.

Nobody dies that and gets away with it especially not MSU players. QB are the social football referree catallion darlings.

I'll have to go back and look at it but it looked like he pushed his chest and just caught part of his face mask. Either way it was a bit after he threw the ball so he shouldn't have done it.

[maroonmania]

At HT

MSU - 17
SEC REFS - 3

[ShotgunDawg]

I do too....and then Kylin makes a run and I forget my sadness

THIS

[BulldogBear]

he didn't push him in the face.

I'm at my parents house without rewind ability but that seemed very clear in real time. Are you sure? I'll bet $500v he did.

[VandelayIndustries]

When they show Aeris on the sideline, I'll be honest, I feel sad for the kid.

Same

[IMissJack]

I've yet to be impressed with anything in the passing game.

[BulldogBear]

Got nothing out of the slot receiver position. Time to go with Mixon and move Whop back to the slot.

Sounds good to me

[ShotgunDawg]

We better recruit a good RB this year, because Kylin looks like the type of talent that won't be here in year 4

[Dawgology]

I think we will get a healthy dose of Aeris in the second half. That being said: if you want to win you can't play upperclassmen just because they are upperclassmen. You have to play the best of what you have. This is what that looks like.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

I've yet to be impressed with anything in the passing game.
Same. I know we have to hate Mullen, but Fitz was the perfect QB for his system. I hope Moorhead is willing to move towards Mullen's offense for this season.

[Dawgology]

I've yet to be impressed with anything in the passing game.

Same. When Fitz is accurate they are dropped and when WR's are completely open they are under or over thrown.

[BulldogBear]

I'll have to go back and look at it but it looked like he pushed his chest and just caught part of his face mask. Either way it was a bit after he threw the ball so he shouldn't have done it.

I'm also watching on much smaller TV than I'm used to! A third the size of mine.

[Coach007]

Our DL is owning their ass now

Rivers making some noise too

[Red Sox Dawg]

Tough place to play. Up 2 td’s at the half. Defense looks good. Lots of mistakes. Let’s clean it up in the 2nd half. Passing game needs to improve but we should be able to run the ball.

[Bothrops]

We stepped it up on defense before halftime.

[preachermatt83]

Defense is good, Hill is beast, Fitz can't pass. Game in a nutshell

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

We stepped it up on defense before halftime.
We started getting good pressure on a 4 man rush. But at the same time, this new QB they're using is an awful passer. Half the time he doesn't even look to throw. Just starts running

[IMissJack]

Same. I know we have to hate Mullen, but Fitz was the perfect QB for his system. I hope Moorhead is willing to move towards Mullen's offense for this season.

Yep. It's tough to change a runner into a passer in their Sr. season. Fitz only played QB a year "I think" in HS, and is a great running QB.

[Liverpooldawg]

Bottom line for the first half: If Fitz makes the throws this game is already over. The plays are there. He is making the right reads the vast majority of the time. He isn't hitting his man.

[Coach007]

Passing

Nick Fitzgerald
6/15
82
5.5
1
----------------

Rushing

Kylin Hill
6
100
16.7
1
47
Nick Fitzgerald
9
77
8.6
0
30

[Coach007]

Bottom line for the first half: If Fitz makes the throws this game is already over. The plays are there. He is making the right reads the vast majority of the time. He isn't hitting his man.

And when he does... they drop them. Williams dropped a TD

[ShotgunDawg]

Remember fellas, Moorhead's offense didn't click at Penn State till game 4.

Be patient.

They key is that we start clicking by Florida

[sack07]

Same. I know we have to hate Mullen, but Fitz was the perfect QB for his system. I hope Moorhead is willing to move towards Mullen's offense for this season.

I think you?ll be pleased we have Moorhead running his own offense when we head into SEC play.

[Dawg61]

KSU has had the ball for 17 minutes and only has 111 yards. Our defense is dominating.

[ShotgunDawg]

Big defensive drive coming out of half time. Don't let them breath

[Liverpooldawg]

And when he does... they drop them. Williams dropped a TD

That too.

[ShotgunDawg]

Kylin will rush for 200 yards today if we give him the ball 10 times in the 2nd half

[MetEdDawg]

Good news is that is is exceedingly clear that we are way better than Kansas state. Bad news is that fitz looks about the same. I know he's got stuff he's working through with getting reps and coming back from injury. But it very easily should be 24-3

[CadaverDawg]

Hated to see Leo get that penalty, but glad to see his aggression. Sometimes he comes across as complacent and non-aggressive. Glad it didn't lead to points

[maroonmania]

Remember fellas, Moorhead's offense didn't click at Penn State till game 4.

Be patient.

They key is that we start clicking by Florida

We just better hope Fitz can do enough in the passing game to get by. JoMo ain't gonna change his offense much.

[IMissJack]

Remember fellas, Moorhead's offense didn't click at Penn State till game 4.

Be patient.

They key is that we start clicking by Florida

I agree, we should be patient, but I'm not convinced that we have the right talent to run "his" offense efficiently this year. And, if we don't run an offense efficiently, no matter what the approach is, we are not going to beat the Bamas and Auburns of the world. You can't have that many plays that go for zero yds, with potential for ints vs a good defense.

[maroonmania]

Good news is that is is exceedingly clear that we are way better than Kansas state. Bad news is that fitz looks about the same. I know he's got stuff he's working through with getting reps and coming back from injury. But it very easily should be 24-3

Fitz is great ONLY when he can make the throw on a straight line. He can't put the ball up and have it come down in a spot. In that situation he will overthrow 90% of the time.

[CadaverDawg]

It's time for one of these WR's to step up and become the damn man. Hill has stepped up and claimed RB1, who is going to rise up and take WR1 by making the tough catches and being the go-to guy on obvious passing downs?

I thought Austin Williams might be that guy, but he proved he wasn't YET in that first half. Somebody grab the damn bull by the horns at the WR position this half.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

I think you?ll be pleased we have Moorhead running his own offense when we head into SEC play.
To me, the sign of a good coach is willing to bend an offense to the talent over his own philosophy. I feel like Mullen wasn't very willing to do that, I'll be pumped if Moorhead is.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's time for one of these WR's to step up and become the damn man. Hill has stepped up and claimed RB1, who is going to rise up and take WR1 by making the tough catches and being the go-to guy on obvious passing downs?

I thought Austin Williams might be that guy, but he proved he wasn't YET in that first half. Somebody grab the damn bull by the horns at the WR position this half.

Need to go deep to Instgramuidry a few times

[CadaverDawg]

How long til Kick coverage gives up their first TD return?

[TUSK]

Can we borrow Tua? Can he play two games a weekend?

You don't want him... he pushes the ball and is too small...

[msstate7]

Wake! Up! Defense!

[HoopsDawg]

LB's aren't filling the gaps.

[SmokeyDawg]

Erroll Thompson continues to impress me. He's always around the ball

[ShotgunDawg]

What's going on with our run defense?

[maroonmania]

runnin our ass over. pathetic

[msstate7]

We're getting run through

[Dawgology]

Yeah defense stayed in the locker room I guess

[ShotgunDawg]

WOW. Simmons

[TimberBeast]

How long til Kick coverage gives up their first TD return?

LSU or Auburn, won’t take long

[VandelayIndustries]

Sweat is a monster

[Bdawg]

That didn't go past the line of scrimmage did it??

[ShotgunDawg]

Our defense has given up a little bit in the middle of the field, but K-State has had no shot inside our 40

[msstate7]

Sweat is so fast

[maroonmania]

What's going on with our run defense?

apparently 3rd Qs are not going to be good for us this year.

[Turfdawg67]

How do you not block Simmons?!? LOL!

[ShotgunDawg]

That didn't go past the line of scrimmage did it??

It did go past the LOS & he was out of the pocket

[VandelayIndustries]

That didn't go past the line of scrimmage did it??

Think it's a different rule in college, Pros that would be a flag

[HoopsDawg]

Nice throw Fitz!

[ShotgunDawg]

There's Instagramuidry

[Coach007]

NICE poise there Fitz!

[msstate7]

Outstanding fitz. Stood in there and waited

[ShotgunDawg]

I'll say this, when run, the holes are wide open

[Coach007]

Guidry limping

[ShotgunDawg]

He's a ****** animal boys

[VandelayIndustries]

Kylin can run for 400 today

[maroonmania]

Dang, didn't think they would catch him.

[Dawgology]

Hill. Wow.

[Dawg61]

Instagramuidry looks nice. He's legit.

[msstate7]

Hill is explosive

[msstate7]

Good decision.

[Coach007]

DAMN at a FRICKING BURST from the point of hand off!

[CadaverDawg]

Boom!!! Throw and catch!!!

[Dawgology]

Williams! Great catch!

[Bdawg]

Hell yeah!!!!!!!!!

[VandelayIndustries]

There you go Austin

[BrunswickDawg]

Helluva throw and catch there

[msstate7]

That's the pass fitz missed early. Fitz settling in nicely

[Liverpooldawg]

Now THAT'S how you do it! Great throw and catch. Very, very, very nice drive.

[Bdawg]

That was about a 95 yd drive really quick!!!!!

[maroonmania]

That is what Fitz can do. Throw it on a line.

[VandelayIndustries]

Of course a review

[BrunswickDawg]

Why the **** are they reviewing that?

[Statecoachingblows**]

Starting to get some cohesiveness-nice 95yard drive in 4-5 plays!

[Liverpooldawg]

He we go again.

[lastmajordog]

Thats how you do it on your MTV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[msstate7]

That may have been the best drive I've seen by fitz. He stood in the pocket for Guidry throw. Great read giving ball to hill on read. Threw ball away when nothing was there. Then he threw a dime under pressure

[VandelayIndustries]

TD boys

[ShotgunDawg]

Said this would be a bloodbath all week

[Coach007]

Why the **** are they reviewing that?

Because Football games need to be 5 hours long!

[hopsondawg22]

We are gonna be scary good late season if no one gets hurt.

[ShotgunDawg]

That may have been the best drive I've seen by fitz. He stood in the pocket for Guidry throw. Great read giving ball to hill on read. Threw ball away when nothing was there. Then he threw a dime under pressure

Very encouraging

[Turfdawg67]

apparently 3rd Qs are not going to be good for us this year.

Fitz and Hill said... not so fast my friend!

[Liverpooldawg]

That may have been the best drive I've seen by fitz. He stood in the pocket for Guidry throw. Great read giving ball to hill on read. Threw ball away when nothing was there. Then he threw a dime under pressure

I agree. That was an awesome drive.

[KOdawg1]

Glad Austin got that TD. He deserves it. Starting to click now for the offense.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Fantastic pass and catch to Guidry and for the TD

[parabrave]

Great catch. Now Fitz needs to get 30 more yds rushing so me and Lambert will b covered.

[Dawg61]

There's Instagramuidry

Digging you loving my nickname for him. Just remember I started it okurrrrr.

[bobtail bob]

Fitz is figuring out he has more time throw than he thought at the start of the game. I think it may have really been a little rustiness

[ShotgunDawg]

Ahh shit. Not Dantzler

[Coach007]

Can we NOT kick it into the endzone PLEASE!

[msstate7]

Oh no

[HoopsDawg]

Wow, we have our best corner on the kickoff team. WTF.

[parabrave]

Dam can't afford to lose Dantzler.

[BrunswickDawg]

Shit Danztler is down

[ShotgunDawg]

Digging you loving my nickname for him. Just remember I started it okurrrrr.

Well, I started Instaguidry earlier this week. I thought you just added to it

[Bdawg]

Why the hell are our cover corners on freaking kickoff?!?!?!?!?

[KOdawg1]

Bill Snyder is such a class act. Goes over to check on Dantzler.

[VandelayIndustries]

Running off, hope that's a good sign

[maroonmania]

Hope Dantzler is OK, he is our best CB. Looks like he is dinged too bad.

[ShotgunDawg]

Shit Danztler is down

He good

[starkvegasdawg]

Wow, we have our best corner on the kickoff team. WTF.

I don't think starting DB's should be on kickoff coverage.

[VandelayIndustries]

Bill Snyder is such a class act. Goes over to check on Dantzler.

He really is, good dude

[HoopsDawg]

Too much cushion Smitherman!

[ShotgunDawg]

I don't want to give up a TD in this game.

[starkvegasdawg]

Too much cushion Smitherman!

Think the secondary is playing a modified prevent already.

[Liverpooldawg]

Bill Snyder is such a class act. Goes over to check on Dantzler.

The guy is a great coach too. They were historically absolutely terrible till he got there. I mean REALLY terrible.

[Dawg61]

Well, I started Instaguidry earlier this week. I thought you just added to it

Ok. You're the noodles I'm the sauce. Enjoy our fantastic pasta co-chef.

[Quaoarsking]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but Fitz passed Don Smith to become #2 on our all-time total offense leaderboard. He needs nearly 5,000 more yards to pass Dak.

[ShotgunDawg]

Come on defense. Play to the standard

[parabrave]

Bill Snyder is such a class act. Goes over to check on Dantzler.

Titty Boy needs to get some lessons from him/

[Coach007]

Come on... don't give up a TD please!

[HoopsDawg]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but Fitz passed Don Smith to become #2 on our all-time total offense leaderboard. He needs nearly 5,000 more yards to pass Dak.

I hate he missed an easy 500 yards against SFA.

[maroonmania]

The guy is a great coach too. They were historically absolutely terrible till he got there. I mean REALLY terrible.

Yep, Bill Snyder is KSU football. They've never been anything outside of when he's been their coach.

[ShotgunDawg]

This nasty

[BrunswickDawg]

Big Fletch!

[preachermatt83]

Our d-line is best in America.

[ShotgunDawg]

This game may hasten Snyder's retirment

[ShotgunDawg]

We need to clean up special teams. Every thing seem erratic

[BrunswickDawg]

Mixon wtf let that go

[dantheman4248]

Apologies if it’s been mentioned already, does anyone know what’s up with Aeris Williams? Did he suit up today?

[maroonmania]

Its obvious our defense is going to give up more yards than we did last year but is geared to be much less vulnerable to the big play that absolutely killed us at times last year.

[msstate7]

I'm gonna go ahead and say Shoop is the real deal. Sure we have the talent, but he's putting them in position

[Liverpooldawg]

Titty Boy needs to get some lessons from him/

He is too busy paying off bounty money to do that. ******

[CadaverDawg]

Shout out to the DB's so far this week. Several coverage sacks

[Liverpooldawg]

Apologies if it’s been mentioned already, does anyone know what’s up with Aeris Williams? Did he suit up today?

He is there, but hasn't played at all. Has to be something up there.

[VandelayIndustries]

Apologies if it’s been mentioned already, does anyone know what’s up with Aeris Williams? Did he suit up today?

Yea he is. just Kylin is blowing up.

[starkvegasdawg]

Shout out to the DB's so far this week. Several coverage sacks

Yep. Been impressed with them this game.

[ShotgunDawg]

Its obvious our defense is going to give up more yards than we did last year but is geared to be much less vulnerable to the big play that absolutely killed us at times last year.

I'm cool with that

[Dawg61]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but Fitz passed Don Smith to become #2 on our all-time total offense leaderboard. He needs nearly 5,000 more yards to pass Dak.

Think that record is safe. Key might pass it though.