What Do You Think? Arkansas People Think They Have A Better Program than MSU & OM

[ShotgunDawg]

Interesting video clip here & one that could create a good discussion.

https://twitter.com/SportsTalkwBo/status/1034917003356786705

I'm not going to call this guy dumb because I'm sure he truly believes that Arkansas is a better program, but I don't agree. Particulary with SEC money now flowing.

Why Arkansas is a better:
- Arkansas has a bigger stadium than MSU or OM
- Arkansas has had more traditional success with more conference titles & a recognized National Championship
- Arkansas has the state to themselves
- In general Arkansas has slightly better facilities than MSU & OM

Why Arkansas is not a better
- Arkansas does not have close to the amount of local talent within 3 hours of campus as MSU & OM
- Arkansas has had significantly less recent success. Last 5 years or so
- Most of Arkansas' traditional success came before integration, in a terrible conference, & recently they caught lighting in a bottle with perhaps one of the best running back combos in recent history with Run DMC, Felix Jones, & Peyton Hillis.


So to me, the question on Arkansas comes down how do you define "better program"?

Do you define "better program" by meaning more historical success & financial resources or is "better program" defined by who has the ability to more easily acquire quality players, who currently has the better the coach, & who can more easily win games in today's college football? What wins games? Which current top 25 program is located in a non-talent rich region?

I personally think that talent rules & that, due to A&M & Mizzou entering the SEC & TCU entering the Big 12, Arkansas has had it's nuts chopped off in recruiting & cannot as easily acquire the level of players that MSU & OM can or as easily as they once did.

[starkvegasdawg]

If you have to go back to the days of Model T's and flapper outfits to prove you're a better program...you're not a better program.

[ShotgunDawg]

If you have to go back to the days of Model T's and flapper outfits to prove you're a better program...you're not a better program.

Here is a legitimate question, at what point will MSU be considered a football program than Tennessee? Tennessee's highs have obviously been much higher than Arkansas' but the point remains; how do you define "better program"? Is it just ceiling, consistency, tradition? What?

[BeardoMSU]

Because they're from Arkansas.

/thread

[TUSK]

If petrino hadn’t wrecked his bike, yes.

Arky is at a recruiting disadvantage, for sure.

Fan base/revenue/commitment is slightly better, IMO.

But they suck.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The only reason that guy thinks Arky has better facillites than we do is bc he's obviously never been here.

State is better than Arky right now but they aint bad. They'll make a bowl. I think Morris was a good hire

[BuckyIsAB****]

If petrino hadn’t wrecked his bike, yes.

Arky is at a recruiting disadvantage, for sure.

Fan base/revenue/commitment is slightly better, IMO.

But they suck.

How do you judge fan committment? And what makes you say Arkys is better than ours? When we played them last year there wasnt anyone there and they've beaten us once since 2012

[BeardoMSU]

Fan base/revenue/commitment is slightly better, IMO.


Don't disagree, but obviously that's due to Arky owning the D1 market in their state.

Who else are they going to root for? Toad Suck State Vocational College?**

[ShotgunDawg]

The only reason that guy thinks Arky has better facillites than we do is bc he's obviously never been here.

State is better than Arky right now but they aint bad. They'll make a bowl. I think Morris was a good hire

I've been to Arkansas numerous times & I would say that their facilities are a hair better. I'm not sure they are better enough to make any difference to a recruit.

Fayetteville is better than both Oxford & Starkville by good amount, but it's not close to any talent so it doesn't matter.

[ShotgunDawg]

How do you judge fan committment? And what makes you say Arkys is better than ours? When we played them last year there wasnt anyone there and they've beaten us once since 2012

Essentially Arkansas had two advantages on fan support over MSU & OM

1. They are the only game in town like LSU
2. With Ft Smith only being 1 hour away, The Northwest Arkansas/Ft Smith metro area is currently almost a million people. The Golden Triangle + Tupelo is less than 200K. Arkansas has significantly more locals that can come to games.

[WPS]

Arkansas has a top 20 class right now on Rivals for 2019 (247 is just outside top 20) and typically recruits in the 20-30 range right along with the other two schools so I don’t really think it’s a talent problem. Of course that still doesn’t get you very high in the SEC. They had the 21st “most talented” roster in college football according to 247 last year and still sucked.

It has nothing to do with today, but from the 60’s-80’s Arkansas was damn near a top 10 program in winning percentage. Even Nutt won the west a couple of times and Petrino finished inside the top 5, but then Bielema had a historic level of failure at Arkansas and that hurt the perception a lot.

Once you get past the top 5 or 6 programs in the SEC, I really don’t think there’s much difference in the rest except maybe when you get to Kentucky and Vanderbilt. A good coach can win at around the same level at each of those schools, and a bad coach vice versa. I think most Arkansas fans considered themselves a better program 10 years ago for sure, but many feel the same way about A&M since we own the head to head series and I’m not sure that’s the case at least anymore. All three of those schools have had a lot more recent success than we have.

[TUSK]

Here is a legitimate question, at what point will MSU be considered a football program than Tennessee? Tennessee's highs have obviously been much higher than Arkansas' but the point remains; how do you define "better program"? Is it just ceiling, consistency, tradition? What?

1. Hardware - NCs & SECC
2. Conference record/big time bowl wins/head to head
3. Fan support/revenue

[BeardoMSU]

1. Hardware - NCs & SECC
2. Conference record/big time bowl wins/head to head
3. Fan support/revenue

Yep. It is what it is. History and ancient history notwithstanding, you gotta prove it.

[Dawgology]

Interesting video clip here & one that could create a good discussion.

https://twitter.com/SportsTalkwBo/status/1034917003356786705

I'm not going to call this guy dumb because I'm sure he truly believes that Arkansas is a better program, but I don't agree. Particulary with SEC money now flowing.

Why Arkansas is a better:
- Arkansas has a bigger stadium than MSU or OM
- Arkansas has had more traditional success with more conference titles & a recognized National Championship
- Arkansas has the state to themselves
- In general Arkansas has slightly better facilities than MSU & OM

Why Arkansas is not a better
- Arkansas does not have close to the amount of local talent within 3 hours of campus as MSU & OM
- Arkansas has had significantly less recent success. Last 5 years or so
- Most of Arkansas' traditional success came before integration, in a terrible conference, & recently they caught lighting in a bottle with perhaps one of the best running back combos in recent history with Run DMC, Felix Jones, & Peyton Hillis.


So to me, the question on Arkansas comes down how do you define "better program"?

Do you define "better program" by meaning more historical success & financial resources or is "better program" defined by who has the ability to more easily acquire quality players, who currently has the better the coach, & who can more easily win games in today's college football? What wins games? Which current top 25 program is located in a non-talent rich region?

I personally think that talent rules & that, due to A&M & Mizzou entering the SEC & TCU entering the Big 12, Arkansas has had it's nuts chopped off in recruiting & cannot as easily acquire the level of players that MSU & OM can or as easily as they once did.

In terms of program value over the past 10 years I would say Arkansas is trending down and State is trending up. In respect to overall program success from a national perspective we are about on the same tier at present.

[ShotgunDawg]

1. Hardware - NCs & SECC
2. Conference record/big time bowl wins/head to head
3. Fan support/revenue

All of your criteria have to do with what has happened in the past & not what is happening in current time.

So no, try again

[msstate7]

Ark vs om = 36-27-1
Ark vs MSU = 16-11-1

Sec west division titles...
Ark 2 and 2 co (3 sec championship games)
Om 1 co (0 sec champ games)
State 1 co (1 sec champ games)
None have won

[thedawginme]

All of your criteria have to do with what has happened in the past & not what is happening in current time.

So no, try again

So this is another thread where you pose a question that you say you don't know the answer to - and then when someone replies you say they are wrong. Got it.

And FWIW I'm not a tusk fan either.

[TUSK]

All of your criteria have to do with what has happened in the past & not what is happening in current time.

So no, try again

I agree. However, I’m unable to predict (most of) the future.

Right this minute, I’d hitch my wagon to MSU over Arky, no doubt.

However, “history” (even ancient history) and past success is a part of better programs.

I think program volatility is slower than y’all. But I’m an old Bammer, so I hope it’s understandable.

[Todd4State]

I disagree about Arkansas's stadium being better than Davis Wade.

I think MSU is at worst as good as Arkansas right now- and I think we're better at the moment.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I disagree about Arkansas's stadium being better than Davis Wade.

I think MSU is at worst as good as Arkansas right now- and I think we're better at the moment.

Idk if there is a difference in how nice a stadium is vs how loud it is but Davis Wade is one of the loudest places to play in college football right now and anyone who says differently is just being ignorant

[BuckyIsAB****]

Arkansas has a top 20 class right now on Rivals for 2019 (247 is just outside top 20) and typically recruits in the 20-30 range right along with the other two schools so I don’t really think it’s a talent problem. Of course that still doesn’t get you very high in the SEC. They had the 21st “most talented” roster in college football according to 247 last year and still sucked.

It has nothing to do with today, but from the 60’s-80’s Arkansas was damn near a top 10 program in winning percentage. Even Nutt won the west a couple of times and Petrino finished inside the top 5, but then Bielema had a historic level of failure at Arkansas and that hurt the perception a lot.

Once you get past the top 5 or 6 programs in the SEC, I really don’t think there’s much difference in the rest except maybe when you get to Kentucky and Vanderbilt. A good coach can win at around the same level at each of those schools, and a bad coach vice versa. I think most Arkansas fans considered themselves a better program 10 years ago for sure, but many feel the same way about A&M since we own the head to head series and I’m not sure that’s the case at least anymore. All three of those schools have had a lot more recent success than we have.

I agree. Outside of the top 3 (Bama, LSU (when they have it together) UGA) its not really a huge difference with anyone else. I would put Auburn up there but they are only above everyone else every other year or so

[BuckyIsAB****]

Essentially Arkansas had two advantages on fan support over MSU & OM

1. They are the only game in town like LSU
2. With Ft Smith only being 1 hour away, The Northwest Arkansas/Ft Smith metro area is currently almost a million people. The Golden Triangle + Tupelo is less than 200K. Arkansas has significantly more locals that can come to games.

I guess. Not sure any of that amounts to enough to make them a better program. Davis Wade is a tougher place to play rn than DW Reynolds is

[Dawg61]

Here is a legitimate question, at what point will MSU be considered a football program than Tennessee?

About 15 years from now if the current trend stays the same or better for MSU and Tennessee keeps putting up 0-8 shit type seasons. We got a lot to make up against that dying "Big 6" program.

[WPS]

I disagree about Arkansas's stadium being better than Davis Wade.

I think MSU is at worst as good as Arkansas right now- and I think we're better at the moment.

Never been to Davis Wade but it is a tough place to play, one of the more underrated in the country for that IMO.

The new north end zone expansion at Razorback stadium is really nice. Greg McElroy and Jalen Hurts both said it was the loudest place they played in. It reached a top 10 ESPN decibel level ever recorded against Ole Miss a few years ago when Chad Kelly fumbled on 4th down to end the game. But the apathy lately has made for some bad atmospheres.

Both are miles ahead of Ole Miss!

http://forums.hogville.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=626805.0;attach=16 3537

http://forums.hogville.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=626805.0;attach=16 3541

http://forums.hogville.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=626805.0;attach=16 3542

[Pit Bull]

Arkansas has Walmart founders money......we don't.....something like 120+ billion with a "B". And they would have a National Championship in all 3 major sports had a 2nd baseman not called off their outfielder for an easy pop up final out in the CWS. And they have a bunch of NCs in track.....I mean a bunch. So technically and historically, I would say they have a better athletic program. They basically had Walmart write a check for Bud Walton Arena. Don't think we have any alums that could do that. Yes, their revamped campus football stadium is very loud. Only place I have been louder is Autzen Stadium in Eugene, Oregon and Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I will say MSU WITH a full compliment of cowbells puts us in the upper echelons of loudness.

[Dawg61]

Arkansas has Walmart founders money......we don't.....something like 120+ billion with a "B". And they would have a National Championship in all 3 major sports had a 2nd baseman not called off their outfielder for an easy pop up final out in the CWS. And they have a bunch of NCs in track.....I mean a bunch. So technically and historically, I would say they have a better athletic program. They basically had Walmart write a check for Bud Walton Arena. Don't think we have any alums that could do that. Yes, their revamped campus football stadium is very loud. Only place I have been louder is Autzen Stadium in Eugene, Oregon and Tiger Stadium in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I will say MSU WITH a full compliment of cowbells puts us in the upper echelons of loudness.

So much wrong in this post. Arkansas football won a Nat Champ in 1964. 30 years before they even joined the SEC. Their basketball program has been an afterthought for 20 years now. You did get the part right about baseball and track though. Oh yea and on their endowment. You're 119 billion wrong on that one.


The University of Arkansas endowment holdings have reached a record high, crossing the $1 billion-mark for the first time

https://news.uark.edu/articles/39910/endowment-reaches-milestone-provides-perpetual-campus-support

[TUSK]

So much wrong in this post. Arkansas football won a Nat Champ in 1964. 30 years before they even joined the SEC. Their basketball program has been an afterthought for 20 years now. You did get the part right about baseball and track though. Oh yea and on their endowment. You're 119 billion wrong on that one.



https://news.uark.edu/articles/39910/endowment-reaches-milestone-provides-perpetual-campus-support

Yeah, that endowment # seemed a "little" high to me... good work, daddio....

doesn't A&M have all the money????

[Activated Alpha]

I've always questioned how many other neighboring states have stores that sell MSU or OM gear. How many people drive around other cities with bumper stickers that say hail state or hotty toddy bumper stickers? I've rarely seen any stores outside of MS, but yet you will constantly see all the other west teams displayed prominently in stores and on cars here in MS. (Looking at you sidewalk Alabama fans...)

[TUSK]

I've always questioned how many other neighboring states have stores that sell MSU or OM gear. How many people drive around other cities with bumper stickers that say hail state or hotty toddy bumper stickers? I've rarely seen any stores outside of MS, but yet you will constantly see all the other west teams displayed prominently in stores and on cars here in MS. (Looking at you sidewalk Alabama fans...)

you're welcome;)

[Pit Bull]

So much wrong in this post. Arkansas football won a Nat Champ in 1964. 30 years before they even joined the SEC. Their basketball program has been an afterthought for 20 years now. You did get the part right about baseball and track though. Oh yea and on their endowment. You're 119 billion wrong on that one.



https://news.uark.edu/articles/39910/endowment-reaches-milestone-provides-perpetual-campus-support

Let me interpret for ya......Where did I say endowment in my original post? I didn't. The approximate value the 3 Walton children together who love Arkansas is approximately 120 Billion.(actually probably a lot more)....any one of them can cash in some stock or write a check for whatever the Hogs need.....within reason. If you win a NC, it could have been right after the Civil War.....still counts! Again, you putting time and conference constraints on everything is quite foolish. A basketball NC is a basketball NC is a basketball NC.....kind of see where I'm going with this? Moral of the post...…..read my post, then respond intelligently. Thanks for your interest in EliteDawgs.com!

[Maroonthirteen]

Because they're from Arkansas.

/thread

This is the correct answer. Arkansans believe the sun rises and sets on that state. You just have to live there a few years to understand.

[Jack Lambert]

The next time they beat us then they will have a better program.

[Schultzy]

But not TT - I hope Kingsbury can talk like this Saturday afternoon.

https://youtu.be/_aW5Bz_L8tg

[WPS]

Let me interpret for ya......Where did I say endowment in my original post? I didn't. The approximate value the 3 Walton children together who love Arkansas is approximately 120 Billion.(actually probably a lot more)....any one of them can cash in some stock or write a check for whatever the Hogs need.....within reason. If you win a NC, it could have been right after the Civil War.....still counts! Again, you putting time and conference constraints on everything is quite foolish. A basketball NC is a basketball NC is a basketball NC.....kind of see where I'm going with this? Moral of the post...…..read my post, then respond intelligently. Thanks for your interest in EliteDawgs.com!

The Waltons really don’t give that much to athletics anymore contrary to what some people believe. Alice Walton donated a ton for a brand new art program (which she ridiculously expects to be Ivy League-level in 10 years) and they’ll sponsor something here or there but most of our major money comes from Tyson, JB Hunt, Jerry Jones, etc. We don’t use any taxpayer money to pay for athletics though thanks to the Razorback foundation.

[Leroy Jenkins]

You are what your record says you are.

[Johnson85]

Arkansas has a top 20 class right now on Rivals for 2019 (247 is just outside top 20) and typically recruits in the 20-30 range right along with the other two schools so I don?t really think it?s a talent problem. Of course that still doesn?t get you very high in the SEC. They had the 21st ?most talented? roster in college football according to 247 last year and still sucked.

It has nothing to do with today, but from the 60?s-80?s Arkansas was damn near a top 10 program in winning percentage. Even Nutt won the west a couple of times and Petrino finished inside the top 5, but then Bielema had a historic level of failure at Arkansas and that hurt the perception a lot.

Once you get past the top 5 or 6 programs in the SEC, I really don?t think there?s much difference in the rest except maybe when you get to Kentucky and Vanderbilt. A good coach can win at around the same level at each of those schools, and a bad coach vice versa. I think most Arkansas fans considered themselves a better program 10 years ago for sure, but many feel the same way about A&M since we own the head to head series and I?m not sure that?s the case at least anymore. All three of those schools have had a lot more recent success than we have.

This is the answer. Historically, Arkansas has been better (and I don't just mean pre-SEC days although that matters a little). But they haven't been good enough for anybody to remember. Going forward, Arkansas has an advantage from being the only major university in the state and the extra money that comes from that. State has an advantage in having more local talent, even if they are competing with more people for it. Whoever has the better coach is going to be better going forward because everything else is close enough to be trumped by who has the better coach.

[Liverpooldawg]

All of your criteria have to do with what has happened in the past & not what is happening in current time.

So no, try again

When it comes to talking about "programs" history matters. It sux but it just does. I will allow that with Southern programs history starts with integration. Current state of a team is a different matter. That changes year to year. Programs change more slowly.

[Liverpooldawg]

This is the correct answer. Arkansans believe the sun rises and sets on that state. You just have to live there a few years to understand.

I had relatives (not Arkansas fans) who lived there for a while. We used to visit 4-5 times a year. That's all it took. The media in that state almost doesn't cover any college sports outside of the Swine. I've never seen anything like it.

[Pollodawg]

MSU and Arkansas are a lot closer to equal than either of them is away from the other. I do think we?re slightly better than UK and way better than Vandy. I also think we?re better than this current version of Tennessee (I don?t care who they were in the 90s just like I don?t care who OM was in the 60s) and Mizzou.
Tier two SEC: Scar, MSU, UK, OM, Arky, and TAMU.
Cellar dweller: Vandy and UT (again, current version) mizzou
The top tier is obvious.

[Liverpooldawg]

Let me interpret for ya......Where did I say endowment in my original post? I didn't. The approximate value the 3 Walton children together who love Arkansas is approximately 120 Billion.(actually probably a lot more)....any one of them can cash in some stock or write a check for whatever the Hogs need.....within reason. If you win a NC, it could have been right after the Civil War.....still counts! Again, you putting time and conference constraints on everything is quite foolish. A basketball NC is a basketball NC is a basketball NC.....kind of see where I'm going with this? Moral of the post...…..read my post, then respond intelligently. Thanks for your interest in EliteDawgs.com!

I think Vandy won one in football back in like 1905 or so. Does that still count?

[Dawgology]

When it comes to talking about "programs" history matters. It sux but it just does. I will allow that with Southern programs history starts with integration. Current state of a team is a different matter. That changes year to year. Programs change more slowly.

This is why I think you have to look at a programs trend which incorporates usually about a decade or so worth of football. I could point to a lot of football programs with "national titles" under theor belts that are completely irrelevant now and have been for a loooong time. Princeton claims 26, Yale claims 18, Pittsburgh claims 9, Harvard 8, Minnesota 6, Army 5, Illinois 4, Cornell 3....the list goes on and on and on. Would you put any of those before MSU from a national perspective? No. You have to look at a programs trend. Right now (from a national perspective) MSU is about the same or slightly above Ark and definitly above Ole Miss. (ETA: Unless you are that dumb**** Barrett Sallee....who probably just needs to start covering soccer or something)

[Dawg61]

Let me interpret for ya......Where did I say endowment in my original post? I didn't. The approximate value the 3 Walton children together who love Arkansas is approximately 120 Billion.(actually probably a lot more)....any one of them can cash in some stock or write a check for whatever the Hogs need.....within reason. If you win a NC, it could have been right after the Civil War.....still counts! Again, you putting time and conference constraints on everything is quite foolish. A basketball NC is a basketball NC is a basketball NC.....kind of see where I'm going with this? Moral of the post...…..read my post, then respond intelligently. Thanks for your interest in EliteDawgs.com!

Jeff Bezos graduated from Princeton and is worth $160 billion. With your logic Princeton should be winning natty's here real soon. Time constraints aren't necessary for history classes but they are necessary for what's relevant on the field of play. Arkansas winning a natty right after the civil war is great to tell grandchildren about but it helps them zero when trying to win one today. Pretty much Arkansas is a completely overrated school in two sports right now. Basketball and football and I will enjoy watching State show that to them for the next decade. If you won't enjoy that please redirect your internet time to WooPig.net.

[NWADAWG]

From someone who lives just down the road from UPig:

UPig pros
More money (Walmart, Tyson, JB Hunt, Walmart, ...
Nicer, bigger facilities - (State will retake baseball when the Dude is finished.)
Only major university in state - AR State keeps trying but is still insignificant
Great area of country

UPig Cons
Less people - less talent
No real rival - Mizzou is closest at aprox 4 hrs away.
Struggle to recruit Texas where most of talent has come from historically since leaving SWC. Hiring Morris from SMU may help eventually
There is more disinterest in football and basketball here now than I've seen in over 20 years of living here.
=> UPig seems to be on downward trend while State seems to be on an upward trend.

[ShotgunDawg]

I've always questioned how many other neighboring states have stores that sell MSU or OM gear. How many people drive around other cities with bumper stickers that say hail state or hotty toddy bumper stickers? I've rarely seen any stores outside of MS, but yet you will constantly see all the other west teams displayed prominently in stores and on cars here in MS. (Looking at you sidewalk Alabama fans...)

The state of Mississippi has be ripped apart & split numerous different ways over the years. There simply is not the state pride in Mississippi as there is in other states.

Very few people say that they are from Mississippi proudly & as if that carries with it an identity, while people from Alabama, Louisiana, & Texas do.

[Dawg61]

The lack of MSU apparel at stores throughout the South is a reflection of our poor apparel/brand marketing not a reflection of demand. There are some aspects that MSU is still stuck in 1985 with. Media representation is one and apparel/brand marketing is another.

[MedDawg]

This is why I think you have to look at a programs trend which incorporates usually about a decade or so worth of football. I could point to a lot of football programs with "national titles" under theor belts that are completely irrelevant now and have been for a loooong time. Princeton claims 26, Yale claims 18, Pittsburgh claims 9, Harvard 8, Minnesota 6, Army 5, Illinois 4, Cornell 3....the list goes on and on and on. Would you put any of those before MSU from a national perspective? No. You have to look at a programs trend. Right now (from a national perspective) MSU is about the same or slightly above Ark and definitly above Ole Miss. (ETA: Unless you are that dumb**** Barrett Sallee....who probably just needs to start covering soccer or something)

Agree. Last 10 years is a better indicator of where a program is than overall history.

One thing that will keep a school from falling (or falling back) to 4-8 seasons is ability to repeatedly hire good coaches and stay away from hiring a bad coach. I think State has improved a whole level in both since Croom and therefore our program is way ahead of where were were in 2006. I also think that Arkansas has fallen a level since Petrino. Do I believe that State hired a better coach than Arkansas for 2018? I do. Do I have confidence in MSU's ability to replace Moorhead with a good coach? I do. Do I have the same confidence that Arkansas will replace Chad Morris with a good coach? I don't.

Arkansas clearly has the better overall history, but State has won more than Arkansas over the past 10 years and I see State winning more than Arkansas over the next 10 years. So State's program is now better than Arkansas.

[WPS]

Struggle to recruit Texas where most of talent has come from historically since leaving SWC. Hiring Morris from SMU may help eventually

There is more disinterest in football and basketball here now than I've seen in over 20 years of living here.

The Texas recruiting part is probably the biggest reason why Arkansas hasn’t had the success that they had in the SWC. Morris already has more Texas players committed/signed in one and a half classes than Bielema signed his entire time here. That’s insane to me.

I tend to agree about the disinterest but we were still 9th in the country in basketball attendance last year and the interest in football was really high when Petrino was here, Bielema just sucked the life out of everyone. Winning cures a lot of things.

[ShotgunDawg]

Matt Wyatt putting in his two cents

https://i.imgur.com/JchAbcV.jpg

[BeardoMSU]

Matt Wyatt putting in his two cents

https://i.imgur.com/JchAbcV.jpg

Matt is a smart guy.

[gravedigger]

Interesting video clip here & one that could create a good discussion.

https://twitter.com/SportsTalkwBo/status/1034917003356786705

I'm not going to call this guy dumb because I'm sure he truly believes that Arkansas is a better program, but I don't agree. Particulary with SEC money now flowing.

Why Arkansas is a better:
- Arkansas has a bigger stadium than MSU or OM
- Arkansas has had more traditional success with more conference titles & a recognized National Championship
- Arkansas has the state to themselves
- In general Arkansas has slightly better facilities than MSU & OM

Why Arkansas is not a better
- Arkansas does not have close to the amount of local talent within 3 hours of campus as MSU & OM
- Arkansas has had significantly less recent success. Last 5 years or so
- Most of Arkansas' traditional success came before integration, in a terrible conference, & recently they caught lighting in a bottle with perhaps one of the best running back combos in recent history with Run DMC, Felix Jones, & Peyton Hillis.


So to me, the question on Arkansas comes down how do you define "better program"?

Do you define "better program" by meaning more historical success & financial resources or is "better program" defined by who has the ability to more easily acquire quality players, who currently has the better the coach, & who can more easily win games in today's college football? What wins games? Which current top 25 program is located in a non-talent rich region?

I personally think that talent rules & that, due to A&M & Mizzou entering the SEC & TCU entering the Big 12, Arkansas has had it's nuts chopped off in recruiting & cannot as easily acquire the level of players that MSU & OM can or as easily as they once did.

Too subjective of a point to prove. But then again, I like cold toilet seats.

[ShotgunDawg]

Too subjective of a point to prove. But then again, I like cold toilet seats.

Completely agree. That was kind of my point.

Do you judge future success by the last 6 years or by the 50 years prior to that?

I think there is a valid argument for both, which makes this an unsolvable debate

[NolaDawgPound]

Never been to Davis Wade but it is a tough place to play, one of the more underrated in the country for that IMO.

The new north end zone expansion at Razorback stadium is really nice. Greg McElroy and Jalen Hurts both said it was the loudest place they played in. It reached a top 10 ESPN decibel level ever recorded against Ole Miss a few years ago when Chad Kelly fumbled on 4th down to end the game. But the apathy lately has made for some bad atmospheres.

Both are miles ahead of Ole Miss!

http://forums.hogville.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=626805.0;attach=16 3537

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No just no. The Gameday in Fayetteville isn't close to present day Davis Wade. I cant even make an argument for the facilities even bein even. The cheap metal bleachers in Fayetteville are just that, cheap. And as cold as ice when we play there in November. I've been up there the last 3 games and it was somewhat comparable before our north expansion. Plus you warm up when you stand up and aren't dissipating heat via the heat sink bleachers.

The Gameday atmosphere inside and outside Davis Wade has greatly surpassed the Fayetteville gameday just in the short period of time I've been going since 2013 up there. I'm not saying it's terrible but they aren't close present day.

The SEC money for the MS schools has closed the previous gap with Ark, and MSU has surpassed ARK, despite the discrepancies in football history. The recruiting base just isn't there for Ark and now that A&M has joined the conference, the Texas pool has somewhat dried up.

[IMissJack]

I graduated HS in Arkansas, and almost went to UA. I had a lot of friends that went there. I had always loved MSU, my parents are both from MS and I lived in MS a lot. Fayetteville is a nice college town these days, but its location in the State is terrible for a lot of people to get up there. It was closer for me to go to MSU from where I lived in AR than to Fayetteville. Arkansas is growing by giving in state tuition to TX kids, plain and simple. Without TX, AR would not be as good as they are.

[Goldendawg]

Two questions: What happened when Mississippi moves up to #49 in something nationally? Arky just dropped to #50. Why is a toothbrush not called a teethbrush? It was invented in Arky.**** Didn't know Coach Crowe was still alive. Their success has to go back about as far as the webels. And giving Dan some credit, what is our record against Arky recently?

[WPS]

No just no. The Gameday in Fayetteville isn't close to present day Davis Wade. I cant even make an argument for the facilities even bein even. The cheap metal bleachers in Fayetteville are just that, cheap. And as cold as ice when we play there in November. I've been up there the last 3 games and it was somewhat comparable before our north expansion. Plus you warm up when you stand up and aren't dissipating heat via the heat sink bleachers.

The Gameday atmosphere inside and outside Davis Wade has greatly surpassed the Fayetteville gameday just in the short period of time I've been going since 2013 up there. I'm not saying it's terrible but they aren't close present day.

The SEC money for the MS schools has closed the previous gap with Ark, and MSU has surpassed ARK, despite the discrepancies in football history. The recruiting base just isn't there for Ark and now that A&M has joined the conference, the Texas pool has somewhat dried up.

So you started going one year after John L. Smith and the entire Bielema era? Probably part of the reasoning.

I don’t really like our bleachers either but our suites and clubs are as nice as any. There are a ton of Walmart vendors who pay big money for them. We just got a brand new locker room. And the Jerry Jones student-athlete success center is less than 5 years old. Most of those things you can’t see for just a day visit as an opposing fan though.

It does get cold in the Ozarks in November but not much you can do about that lol. And once again, we’ll likely have a top 20 class this year and typically recruit around the same so if our recruiting base sucks so does most of the middle-lower tiered SEC schools. With a good recruiter IMO we should be able to get a decent class by getting guys from Arkansas, east Texas, Memphis (got a few this year), Oklahoma and a few from the St. Louis/New Orleans areas every once in a while (we have players from both currently).

[tireddawg]

Jeff Bezos graduated from Princeton and is worth $160 billion. With your logic Princeton should be winning natty's here real soon. Time constraints aren't necessary for history classes but they are necessary for what's relevant on the field of play. Arkansas winning a natty right after the civil war is great to tell grandchildren about but it helps them zero when trying to win one today. Pretty much Arkansas is a completely overrated school in two sports right now. Basketball and football and I will enjoy watching State show that to them for the next decade. If you won't enjoy that please redirect your internet time to WooPig.net.

His negativity getting to you?

[NolaDawgPound]

So you started going one year after John L. Smith and the entire Bielema era? Probably part of the reasoning.

I don’t really like our bleachers either but our suites and clubs are as nice as any. There are a ton of Walmart vendors who pay big money for them. We just got a brand new locker room. And the Jerry Jones student-athlete success center is less than 5 years old. Most of those things you can’t see for just a day visit as an opposing fan though.

It does get cold in the Ozarks in November but not much you can do about that lol. And once again, we’ll likely have a top 20 class this year and typically recruit around the same so if our recruiting base sucks so does most of the middle-lower tiered SEC schools. With a good recruiter IMO we should be able to get a decent class by getting guys from Arkansas, east Texas, Memphis (got a few this year), Oklahoma and a few from the St. Louis/New Orleans areas every once in a while (we have players from both currently).

You missed the point. And you yourself stated that you've never been to Davis Wade.

Here is the Cliff Notes. Currently MSU has the edge and it's really not close. Historically Ark has the edge and its not debatable. I'll use my A&M analogy for Arkansas as well. The style of football played in the areas Ark recruits does not translate well to the style of play in the SEC. The talent pool from which Ark recruited from during the 90's early 00's has shifted more toward a spread finesse type of high school football. Same as A&M's recruiting umbrella. This translates into smaller, softer defensive players. This does not bode well in a conference known for it's defensive prowess. Add in the fact that Ark is no longer the only SEC kid in town for that recruiting region of the country. It's no coincidence that Ark has trended downward since A&M entered the league.

I'm simply pointing out recent trends since A&M joined the league and changes of the talent of teams. LSU has also been impacted because they now have SEC competition in East Texas. It's no coincidence that they've also tailed off during the same time Ark has, since A&M entered the league. Some of that has to do with coaches and schemes, but neither Ark nor LSU can go into Texas and use the "come play in the SEC" line. Over time the mentality of Texas High School Programs change.

Things come and go. Just like the SEC money helped the MSU's of the SEC more than the "Haves" of the SEC and the gap has been closed on the field as well as in the facilities.

[Bully13]

Fans like those from programs similar to AR have a difficult time coming to grips with the modern era. MSU has benefited mightily from SEC & ESPN $. The gaps of the past have evaporated big time over the last 15-20 years. When the old cigar boys from TN, AR, A&M and such get their asses kicked by MSU, they lose their shit and create havoc and mayhem from the top down which leads to counter productivity IMO. I like where we stand in the modern era and those other fans can kiss my ass.

[Dawg61]

His negativity getting to you?

More like the tired Po Ol Miss State attitude and cheerleading up other SEC programs that consumes the older State fans in our base. Can't really blame them though as they had to suffer through 60 years of shit.

[Bothrops]

MSU has a recruiting advantage, though it may not necessarily show on paper. When classes are ranked similarly, MSU usually going to have the better crop.

Arkansas has a better stadium even though I personally like our seating layout better. Arky's new renovation pushes them ahead no doubt about it. It will be this way until we crown the south endzone.

Arkansas has Walmart, Tyson Foods and J.B. Hunt

MSU has Mossy Oak, Sanderson Farms and Hancock Whitney Corp

Both impressive but Walmart is bigger than all of those combined. I'm not sure how invested Walmart is into Arkansas athletics, but a little would go a long way.

I think the next 5 seasons will tell you which school has the best football program. Both with first year coaches.