What's y'all's opinion on Skynyrd / Ballad of Curtis Loew ?

[Bully13]

Since so many of their album covers, stage stuff & concert fans brought / (still bring?) have confederate flags, should they automatically be labeled racist / racists?

I apologize if this should have been on the poly board but I was hoping we could have a reasonable conversation on it and keep the topic respectful with no flame throwing. If so, I'm sure the mods will surely throw it over there (and justifiably so)

To me, any band that writes lyrics like this are well meaning, non rednecks. My dad always taught me there was a big difference between a hard working country man (Simple Man ring any bells?) and a redneck. I place my vote on Skynyrd being of the hard working country boy mentality.

For your enjoyment with Lyrics. Would like to know what others think and especially one of my favorite all time Skynyrd songs:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPmDKC-e9KA

[Matty Dispatch]

That song celebrated a man who influenced the writer's love for music. His being a black man was only mentioned to create a visual just like his white curly hair, being an alcoholic and playing his guitar across his knee.

[Bully13]

That song celebrated a man who influenced the writer's love for music. His being a black man was only mentioned to create a visual just like his white curly hair, being an alcoholic and playing his guitar across his knee.

It's more than that. He sings his disgust at the fools who called him worthless and that such a great music man had to be thrown in with no body at his gravesite but the preacher.

[Matty Dispatch]

Were people fools for calling Curtis worthless or was Curtis a fool for wasting his talent as a drunk? Maybe the writer's disgust is actually that because of his alcoholism Curtis was never able to be properly appreciated.

[msstatelp1]

The original Skynyrd is possibly my favorite band of all time. It's either them or the Allman Brothers. Anyway, I don't think they were any more or less racist than any other white musicians during the 70's. They were southern boys that had grown up hearing the blues and knew it's influence on rock and roll. I believe they respected the black blues singers and were upset that other white people wouldn't appreciate how good people like Curtis Lowe were. I believe they used the Battle Flag as a big FU to people like Neal Young who they felt looked down on them for being from the South. Being rockers I think they also used the flag as symbol of rebellion against the accepted norms of the day.

[Bully13]

Were people fools for calling Curtis worthless or was Curtis a fool for wasting his talent as a drunk? Maybe the writer's disgust is actually that because of his alcoholism Curtis was never able to be properly appreciated.

sounds like he had the talent according to the late, great Ronnie Van Zandt. Van Zandt was a druggie and alcoholic as well so I'm kinda thinking he may not have had an issue with Curtis' wine drinking considering Ronnie was known to go on Jack Daniels Drinking Binges.

Maybe you just don't dig the history of black blues music? don't dig Skynyrd? If so, that's cool, each to his own. But it is common knowledge that a lot of talented black blues players were royally screwed over. The Rolling Stones upon entering Chess Records in Chicago for the first time spotted Muddy Waters (One of their main influences) on a ladder inside painting the walls. The Stones would later take him on tour before he died.

Just because someone drinks and is poor doesn't mean they can't inspire others and give them enjoyment.

just curious, do you not like the song?

[Bully13]

The original Skynyrd is possibly my favorite band of all time. It's either them or the Allman Brothers. Anyway, I don't think they were any more or less racist than any other white musicians during the 70's. They were southern boys that had grown up hearing the blues and knew it's influence on rock and roll. I believe they respected the black blues singers and were upset that other white people wouldn't appreciate how good people like Curtis Lowe were. I believe they used the Battle Flag as a big FU to people like Neal Young who they felt looked down on them for being from the South. Being rockers I think they also used the flag as symbol of rebellion against the accepted norms of the day.

A-Men Brother. Spot on. I don't know if it's true or not but I've read (or heard) that Skynyrd and Neil Young were actually friends. (can't see that though). If I were Neil Young after trashing an entire state, Sweet Home Alabama musta really made him squirm I'd think because while Neil was successful (I actually like a lot of his older stuff), he never matched anything Skynyrd did (especially Sweet Home Alabama).

[Prediction? Pain.]

Interesting topic that's sparked lots of thoughts that aren't far enough along to express. But I found a couple of informative articles about Lynyrd Skynyrd and the confederate flag that I thought y'all might find interesting:

https://www.nola.com/music/index.ssf/2015/06/even_lynyrd_skynyrd_wanted_to.html

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-country/lynyrd-skynyrd-inside-the-bands-complicated-history-with-the-south-629080/

From the 2015 article in the New Orleans paper:


Gary Rossington, the only remaining original member of the band, made big waves in 2012 when he told CNN that Lynyrd Skynyrd would stop using the flag as its stage backdrop.

"Through the years, people like the KKK and skinheads kinda kidnapped the Dixie or Southern flag from its tradition and the heritage of the soldiers, that's what it was about," he said. "We didn't want that to go to our fans or show the image like we agreed with any of the race stuff or any of the bad things."

After a backlash from fans, the band brought back the flag. In what seemed like a peculiar compromise, though - at least during its performance at the 2014 Gretna Heritage Festival - the backdrop was the band logo, with the American flag patterned into the letters. A medium-sized Confederate flag hung off to the side at stage left, where not everyone in the crowd could see it. During the closing "Freebird," Johnny van Zant (Ronnie's brother, and the current lead singer) draped an American flag across the microphone stand.

From the 2018 Rolling Stone article:


From the outset, Skynyrd danced on the edge of controversy, performing in front of the Confederate flag and alluding to George Wallace, the segregationist governor of Alabama, in song. These incidents were later explained away by the band: MCA pushed the group to adopt the Stars and Bars, assuming it'd accentuate their Southerness and rebellion, while the "Sweet Home Alabama" lyric "In Birmingham they love the governor" was said to be undercut by the backing vocals chanting "boo boo boo" afterward. Such after-the-fact justifications paint Lynyrd Skynyrd in the best possible light, suggesting that any ugliness was not the fault of the band: either they had good intentions or were just playing the industry's game . . . .

Maybe the record label instigated its use in 1974 but Skynyrd made the Stars and Bars an integral part of their visual iconography, letting it appear on T-shirts, caps, belt buckles and ceramic mugs until 2012, when the band decided that it was time to retire it from their stage. A fan blowback ensued, leading Gary Rossington to clarify the band's stance in a Facebook post, claiming that the group would still use the Rebel flag but only alongside the U.S. flag, "'cause at the end of the day, we are all Americans.'" On their farewell tour, Skynyrd eschews any overt display of the Confederate flag, choosing instead to perform in front of the U.S. flag and, during "Sweet Home Alabama," that state's colors . . . .

Also, since I'm a huge Allman Brothers fan and a few of y'all have mentioned them, I think it's important to note that there was a diversity of opinion among white, southern musicians about the flag's association with southern rock.

Gregg Allman on the topic in 2015 (https://liveforlivemusic.com/news/gregg-allman-new-band-burn-every-confederate-flag/):


Allman also weighed in on the Confederate flag issue, echoing similar sentiments as fellow Southern rocker Warren Haynes. "Well, I was taught how to play music by these very, very kind older black men. My best friend in the world is a black man. If people are gonna look at that flag and think of it as representing slavery, then I say burn every one of them."

Warren Haynes on the topic around the same time (https://liveforlivemusic.com/news/southern-rocker-warren-haynes-weighs-in-on-confederate-flag-debate/):


Speaking to Radio.com, Haynes said "When I look back and think that there were a lot of bands flying the flag in the old days, I guess we were just much more naive at that point, and didn't realize how it is interpreted by the people who are offended. And that's really what it?s all about. I'm a Southerner, I can't tell you how long I've thought it was offensive."

He continued, saying "We used to tour a lot in Europe, and when we played there, there'd be people flying rebel flags, and they'd be doing it to honor the music. But that's not what it's about." Then Haynes talked about his experiences in Germany, "I just spent a month in Europe, and in Germany people were asking about this . . . . [That type of symbolism] is a more magnified issue there, as you can imagine."

"But you don't choose your family; you rise above' And that's what it's all about: healing, rising above and learning from the past, not making the same mistakes twice. I'm really proud of what's happening right now, like in Alabama, getting rid of the flag. One by one, the states are all starting to step up."

Haynes even offered a brief history lesson, pointing out that the flag only resurfaced as a symbol in the late 1950's out of protest against the Civil Rights movement. From that perspective, it's easy to understand why the flag shouldn't be associated with government, music, or really anything.

Haynes summed it up perfectly, saying, "You don't need a symbol to be proud of who you are."

[Matty Dispatch]

sounds like he had the talent according to the late, great Ronnie Van Zandt. Van Zandt was a druggie and alcoholic as well so I'm kinda thinking he may not have had an issue with Curtis' wine drinking considering Ronnie was known to go on Jack Daniels Drinking Binges.

Maybe you just don't dig the history of black blues music? don't dig Skynyrd? If so, that's cool, each to his own. But it is common knowledge that a lot of talented black blues players were royally screwed over. The Rolling Stones upon entering Chess Records in Chicago for the first time spotted Muddy Waters (One of their main influences) on a ladder inside painting the walls. The Stones would later take him on tour before he died.

Just because someone drinks and is poor doesn't mean they can't inspire others and give them enjoyment.

just curious, do you not like the song?

Yeah, I like the song and I like Lynyrd Skynyrd. Although there's about 25 of their other songs I'd put ahead of it if I made a list of my favorites. Not all drunks can be functioning drunks. Some people can do drugs and alcohol and it doesn't affect them that much and no one is any the wiser of their habit. Others let the habit consume their life and destroy it.

[msstatelp1]

Just saw where Skynyrd guitarist Ed King passed today at age 68.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/lynyrd-skynyrd-guitarist-ed-king-dead-at-68/ar-BBMlo86?li=BBnbfcL

[Tbonewannabe]

Yeah, I like the song and I like Lynyrd Skynyrd. Although there's about 25 of their other songs I'd put ahead of it if I made a list of my favorites. Not all drunks can be functioning drunks. Some people can do drugs and alcohol and it doesn't affect them that much and no one is any the wiser of their habit. Others let the habit consume their life and destroy it.

I worked with a guy that was pretty bad. His handwriting was very shaky but other than that you wouldn't know it. He really didn't miss work and wasn't late. The only reason I found out was he broke his foot falling down some steps. One of the other people said it was because he got drunk every day. The handwriting then made sense.

[TUSK]

SKYNYRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD!!!!!!!

[TUSK]

My fav songs:

Simple Man
Gimme Back My Bullets
That Smell
Needle & the Spoon

Popular Songs I dig:

Freebird
Sweet Home Alabama
Tuesday's Gone

SKYNYRRRRRRRRRRD!!!!!!!!!!

[TUSK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxIWDmmqZzY

[Bully13]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxIWDmmqZzY

that is one of the most bad assed music videos of all time. Have watched many times. The way Skynyrd whipped that CA audience into a frenzy is one for the ages. The music , guitars (2 leads going at it at the same time) , and the audience reaction is beyond awesome.

[Bully13]

My fav songs:

Simple Man
Gimme Back My Bullets
That Smell
Needle & the Spoon

Popular Songs I dig:

Freebird
Sweet Home Alabama
Tuesday's Gone

SKYNYRRRRRRRRRRD!!!!!!!!!!

Tuesday's Gone should get more play time than Simple Man. Love Simple Man but Tuesday's Gone is a better constructed overall song IMO. Simple Man gets the nod though on the lyrics and message though.

Great List Tusk. I'll throw in Saturday Night Special too even though I'm a pro 2nd A "kinda Man".

"Don't ask me no Questions", "Curtis Lowe", "Gimme 3 Steps",

[Dallas_Dawg]

I'll add "On the Hunt" and "I ain't the One".
But no matter, Skynyrd died with Ronnie

[Tbonewannabe]

Tuesday's Gone should get more play time than Simple Man. Love Simple Man but Tuesday's Gone is a better constructed overall song IMO. Simple Man gets the nod though on the lyrics and message though.

Great List Tusk. I'll throw in Saturday Night Special too even though I'm a pro 2nd A "kinda Man".

"Don't ask me no Questions", "Curtis Lowe", "Gimme 3 Steps",

Shinedown does a GREAT cover of Simple Man. The lead singer does it at every show I think because it is his dad's favorite song. Nothing like a simple acoustic version because it is an awesome song.

[TUSK]

SKYNYRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD!!!!