If the NCAA wasnt a toothless hound they would do something about Saban and his

[99jc]

cheating ass. Ncaa is a hypocritical group that needs to be abolished. when its well known that Bama, auburn, Ohio State and Oklahoma cheat like gangster they just give a hood and a wink.
Do your Damn job NCAA. you don't have to investigate much just sit outside Tutwiler hall on a weekend.



https://totalfratmove.com/alabama-football-is-the-best-car-dealership-in-the-country/

[Cooterpoot]

College athletics and the NCAA are about money. It's not set up to be an even playing field. Nothing you can do about it unless you can raise a billion dollars to two every year.

[99jc]

College athletics and the NCAA are about money. It's not set up to be an even playing field. Nothing you can do about it unless you can raise a billion dollars to two every year.

that's why I don't really blame the rebels for what they did...they just infringed on Bama, Georgia and Michigan and got ratted on by the NCAA favorites.

[Johnson85]

Not that I don't think Bama pays players and pay as much as anybody, but I'm not sure those pictures show that much. A couple of the really nice ones look like they're taken at gas stations and maybe aren't the players cars? And some of them don't seem particularly nice.

And to the extent they are nice, I see lots of people driving cars that cost as much as they earn in a year, so who knows who is using their extra benefits to pay for a car versus who has parents of modest means who are stupid and car poor.

[TUSK]

I think a protest is in order...

#WeAreThe99%*****

[Token Bammer]

So some gutless wonder, some "anonymous coach", accuses someone of "cheating" and now it's pandemonium in college football? Let's get real, everyone cheats to some level. Is Saban dropping bags of cash on the front door step of five stars? Is Saban truly buying cars for everyone on the team? No. All of that is ridiculous. IF Saban, or boosters, or whomever are doing these types of things at Alabama, then they aren't being done to a higher standard than anywhere else.

Do all players get benefits on campus at EVERY major program? Yes. Without a doubt. But there are lines that are understood that no one crosses, and if they do they should expect the NCAA to come knocking on their front door (ie OM).

Saban is the hardest worker in the business, and he demands the highest level of performance from all who associate themselves with his program; from coaches, players, compliance, administration, etc. This is what sets Saban apart. Not money. Not cheating. Is BAMA squeaky clean? I wouldn't dare say we are. However, neither is State, or LSU, or Ohio State, or USC, or UGA, or pick one.

[ShotgunDawg]

Saban is the hardest worker in the business

How do you know this?

Additionally, I agree with most of your post. I agree that no one is clean, but WE simply don't know if Bama goes above and beyond to get croots or if they simply do enough to not get run over.

There is a difference in those two behaviors IMO. I don't have a problem with speeders so long as they are speeding to not get run over. When they are speeding to win, however, that's when I have an issue. I don't consider it cheating when you go fast enough to not get run over.

[mstatefan91]

Don’t talk about muh Saban! He just works hard!

FIFY

[ShotgunDawg]

IF Saban, or boosters, or whomever are doing these types of things at Alabama, then they aren't being done to a higher standard than anywhere else.


How do you know this?

[ShotgunDawg]

he demands the highest level of performance from all who associate themselves with his program; from coaches, players, compliance, administration, etc. This is what sets Saban apart.

How do you know that other coaches don't do the same?

[Kingbarkus]

Les Miles ran longer, more physical practices than Saban at lsu. That's not to say lsu was better coached. In fact, some of the complex coverage schemes at Bama require more than the 20 hours practice time mandated by the NCAA (speculation from what aq coach told me). The resources at Bama are incredible, but let's be accurate. They win because of the incredible talent.

[Dawg61]

You can lease a car for pretty dang cheap when you are a Bama football player. Slide some tickets and a jersey gets you a long way.

[Token Bammer]

How do you know this?

Isn't it obvious? From comments from peers in the coaching profession both in college and the NFL? From comments from his former players now playing in the NFL saying their practices and scheme's are easy compared to Saban's? By the titles? By the recruiting? It's obvious. Even if he's the biggest cheater, he's working harder at it than everyone else. Plus, they've changed the rule book several times because of Saban working harder and others who aren't willing to work whining about his ability to use the current rules for his advantage. Those advantages being available for everyone, but Saban being the only one willing to find them and work them.

Additionally, I agree with most of your post. I agree that no one is clean, but WE simply don't know if Bama goes above and beyond to get croots or if they simply do enough to not get run over.

Ok. So if we "don't know" how is it that everyone is so sure it's "cheating" and not skill, ability, and hard work?

There is a difference in those two behaviors IMO. I don't have a problem with speeders so long as they are speeding to not get run over. When they are speeding to win, however, that's when I have an issue. I don't consider it cheating when you go fast enough to not get run over.


How do you know this?

Because everyone cheats to some level and we all agree on that. Every time someone goes crazy cheating other programs start reporting them and the NCAA comes calling (ie OM). It's sort of a hypocritical system but it's the one we have.


How do you know that other coaches don't do the same?

Other coaches work hard. No doubt. But I think it's obvious, for many reasons, some listed above and some not, that Saban is a more of a machine than most.

[Johnson85]

So some gutless wonder, some "anonymous coach", accuses someone of "cheating" and now it's pandemonium in college football? Let's get real, everyone cheats to some level. Is Saban dropping bags of cash on the front door step of five stars? Is Saban truly buying cars for everyone on the team? No. All of that is ridiculous. IF Saban, or boosters, or whomever are doing these types of things at Alabama, then they aren't being done to a higher standard than anywhere else.

Do all players get benefits on campus at EVERY major program? Yes. Without a doubt. But there are lines that are understood that no one crosses, and if they do they should expect the NCAA to come knocking on their front door (ie OM).

Saban is the hardest worker in the business, and he demands the highest level of performance from all who associate themselves with his program; from coaches, players, compliance, administration, etc. This is what sets Saban apart. Not money. Not cheating. Is BAMA squeaky clean? I wouldn't dare say we are. However, neither is State, or LSU, or Ohio State, or USC, or UGA, or pick one.

I don't think this is right. I don't think there are lines cheating programs won't cross; it's just that outside of Auburn and UM, most programs won't cross it by too much too fast, and of course Bama and then other blue bloods can go further than non-blue bloods without causing problems.

[Token Bammer]

I don't think this is right. I don't think there are lines cheating programs won't cross; it's just that outside of Auburn and UM, most programs won't cross it by too much too fast, and of course Bama and then other blue bloods can go further than non-blue bloods without causing problems.

See, I disagree. Programs like AU and OM cheat more than everyone else because they are trying to keep up with other programs and are not willing to even attempt to do things the right way. In other words, the ends justifies the means. Their ambitions and envy are the driving forces behind their decision making.

I actually commend MSU. I think in terms of programs, I think State wants to do things well. I think they want to build a program, not just for the here and now, but a sustainable program that will matter for years to come. OM and AU don't have that in them.

Also, I believe what I said to be true about State to be true about Alabama under Saban. Saban cares about doing things the right way, and he cares about the people he has around him, and he cares about the sustainability of Alabama. That's the point of the process. Doing all the little things that matter a great deal, and that once you add up all those little things together, they amount to the successes that people desire long term. It's not the end result that matters, it's doing all the little things that make the difference. Saban lives this and believes this to the fullest. I know everyone demonizes him because he wins, but it's true. This coming from former players, coaches, and the mouth of Saban himself.

[PMDawg]

Seems like a super legit source. **

[TUSK]

Seems like a super legit source. **

Yup... I really liked how they tied it all up with "Pat White got offered a Corvette/Saban owns a car dealership."

Case closed!

[TrapGame]

And then you have a team of 25 former head coaches in off field positions dissecting every team on the schedule like surgeons.*

[Bothrops]

College athletics and the NCAA are about money. It's not set up to be an even playing field. Nothing you can do about it unless you can raise a billion dollars to two every year.

^^^ This is how it is, and how it's going to be moving forward.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Saban and Cristobal did outwork us on Lashley. Hevesy couldn’t get outta Starkville.

If Saban cheats... he would have got AJ.

[Dawg2003]

Who can blame Auburn for doing what they have to do when their in state rival is Bama? They drew the worst card in the lot. With regards to Saban, even he couldn't win with a team full of 2 stars. He can't perform magic. You've got to have elite talent and then be able to coach that talent. You need both. He's obviously a great coach, but let's not act like he isn't starting ahead of other programs. Not every program is starting at the same place. There's a cap to what you can consistently achieve if you don't have elite talent.

[Dawg2003]

College athletics and the NCAA are about money. It's not set up to be an even playing field. Nothing you can do about it unless you can raise a billion dollars to two every year.

Exactly. What incentive does the NCAA have to bring Bama and other programs down? Their incentive is not to upset the apple cart. People are operating under the assumption that the NCAA acts in good faith. They don't. They act to protect their own self-interests. Why would they want to destroy something that makes them money? They had to go after Ole Miss because they were beyond ignorant and brought attention to themselves. If they had just gone about their business in increments and not all at once. They went from zero to 100 overnight, so the NCAA had to do something. Ole Miss was the easy, low-hanging fruit that they could go after to make it appear they were interested in doing what they claim they do.

[RocketDawg]

College athletics and the NCAA are about money. It's not set up to be an even playing field. Nothing you can do about it unless you can raise a billion dollars to two every year.

A lot of people are forgetting that universities are first and foremost for academics, not sports. The Ivy League may be the only organization that has the right balance.

[Dawg2003]

A lot of people are forgetting that universities are first and foremost for academics, not sports. The Ivy League may be the only organization that has the right balance.

This is something that I have a hard time squaring. I love college sports, but we all know that academics are not what is important to many of these kids.

[RocketDawg]

Exactly. What incentive does the NCAA have to bring Bama and other programs down? Their incentive is not to upset the apple cart. People are operating under the assumption that the NCAA acts in good faith. They don't. They act to protect their own self-interests. Why would they want to destroy something that makes them money? They had to go after Ole Miss because they were beyond ignorant and brought attention to themselves. If they had just gone about their business in increments and not all at once. They went from zero to 100 overnight, so the NCAA had to do something. Ole Miss was the easy, low-hanging fruit that they could go after to make it appear they were interested in doing what they claim they do.

That certainly seems to have been the case. Alabama has been outstanding in football for as long as I can remember; Ole Miss has not. They had a few glory years 60 years ago, but that's history. I don't know if Alabama is blatantly cheating like Ole Miss was, but OM has been doing it for many years, trying to keep up with the Joneses. They just took it to extreme. In a perfect world, the NCAA would not put up with any level of cheating, especially if it's done by the school. Fans are hard to control, so some slack may be needed there.

[RocketDawg]

This is something that I have a hard time squaring. I love college sports, but we all know that academics are not what is important to many of these kids.

And that is a shame. It dilutes the degrees we have, in my opinion.

[ShotgunDawg]

A lot of people are forgetting that universities are first and foremost for academics, not sports. The Ivy League may be the only organization that has the right balance.

Perhaps, but sports offer an excellent promotion of the school, which in turn leads to more pride, money, & academic opportunities being poured into the school. Additionally, Ivy League schools are private & don't contain the name of a state on their jerseys, which creates a pride & competitive circumstance that is unique.

If MSU did not have sports, what would be the status & current state of the university? How about the town of Starkville?

[dawgday166]

Saban and Cristobal did outwork us on Lashley. Hevesy couldn?t get outta Starkville.

If Saban cheats... he would have got AJ.

I wouldn't really say Saban himself cheats ... he is aware of the huge cheating going on tho. As long as he gets the players, he don't care what sways them to come to Bama.

ETA: Gotta remember that when Saban was at Mich. St., his record was equivalent to Mullen's at MSU. Recruiting cash flow counts.

[RocketDawg]

Perhaps, but sports offer an excellent promotion of the school, which in turn leads to more pride, money, & academic opportunities being poured into the school. Additionally, Ivy League schools are private & don't contain the name of a state on their jerseys, which creates a pride & competitive circumstance that is unique.

If MSU did not have sports, what would be the status & current state of the university? How about the town of Starkville?

Generally speaking, that's true. Pennsylvania is Ivy, and has the name of a state; and Cornell is part private, part public.

But private or public really doesn't matter. Sports have gotten out of hand. There's a nice balance and it's been exceeded.

[Cooterpoot]

Eventually college athletics is going to price itself out of business- At least for the average fan. People have already stopped attending events. Of course, a few more lawsuits, and football could be played on a computer instead of a field one day. Which is where all athletics is headed IMO.

[ShotgunDawg]

Generally speaking, that's true. Pennsylvania is Ivy, and has the name of a state; and Cornell is part private, part public.

But private or public really doesn't matter. Sports have gotten out of hand. There's a nice balance and it's been exceeded.

Where was the line for you? What sort of balance is acceptable in your eyes?

[ShotgunDawg]

Eventually college athletics is going to price itself out of business- At least for the average fan. People have already stopped attending events. Of course, a few more lawsuits, and football could be played on a computer instead of a field one day. Which is where all athletics is headed IMO.

If you think people are idiots then you could be correct. If you think college athletic admins operate in the same manner as CEOs in the business world, then I expect they will find the equilibrium & stop.

Do you really think they would run their business into the ground?

[Johnson85]

And that is a shame. It dilutes the degrees we have, in my opinion.

What dilutes the value of a college degree is the fact that you can more or less be an idiot and still make it through college. I'm sure that was always true to an extent, but it's amazing the number of college graduates I come with 3.0 or even 3.5 GPAs that wouldn't have been able to get through my high school courses with a B average.

[Dawg2003]

And that is a shame. It dilutes the degrees we have, in my opinion.

Absolutely. It's also the fact that a high school diploma is basically a participation trophy in many cases. It bleeds up.

[Dawg2003]

Perhaps, but sports offer an excellent promotion of the school, which in turn leads to more pride, money, & academic opportunities being poured into the school. Additionally, Ivy League schools are private & don't contain the name of a state on their jerseys, which creates a pride & competitive circumstance that is unique.

If MSU did not have sports, what would be the status & current state of the university? How about the town of Starkville?

This is the conundrum.

[RocketDawg]

Where was the line for you? What sort of balance is acceptable in your eyes?

Somewhere behind where we are now. College athletics in my opinion should be something enjoyable for the fans and coaches, and not something where coaches make in excess of $10m and it costs a small fortune to attend games. It should not be the huge business it is now. And athletes should be held to the same academic standards as anyone other applicant ... if they can't get in as a regular applicant, then they can't get in as an athlete. I'm sure that theoretically that's the case, but it's not in practice.

And why was the guy from Washington State not able to get in school there, but got accepted at Alabama? Does Alabama have lower entrance standards? Are Southerners dumber than Pacific Northwesterners?

[ShotgunDawg]

Somewhere behind where we are now. College athletics in my opinion should be something enjoyable for the fans and coaches, and not something where coaches make in excess of $10m and it costs a small fortune to attend games. It should not be the huge business it is now. And athletes should be held to the same academic standards as anyone other applicant ... if they can't get in as a regular applicant, then they can't get in as an athlete. I'm sure that theoretically that's the case, but it's not in practice.

And why was the guy from Washington State not able to get in school there, but got accepted at Alabama? Does Alabama have lower entrance standards? Are Southerners dumber than Pacific Northwesterners?

So coaches shouldn't make $10+ mil when the economic impact that a good coach brings to the local area is in excess of 10Xs that?

Why should the CEO of a company make 10 Mil when he does not bring Close to the same economic impact as a good coach?

[msbulldog]

Saban and Cristobal did outwork us on Lashley. Hevesy couldn?t get outta Starkville.

If Saban cheats... he would have got AJ.

Damn shame about Lashley, we had him and the lazy MF's of the last staff blew it, 20 miles down the road SMH! Lashley would have taken some of the pressure off the OL class that we have now. I am really glad we have coaches that work at recruiting now. You all see what those lazy ba$tards are doing at their new job!

[maroonmania]

Exactly. What incentive does the NCAA have to bring Bama and other programs down? Their incentive is not to upset the apple cart. People are operating under the assumption that the NCAA acts in good faith. They don't. They act to protect their own self-interests. Why would they want to destroy something that makes them money? They had to go after Ole Miss because they were beyond ignorant and brought attention to themselves. If they had just gone about their business in increments and not all at once. They went from zero to 100 overnight, so the NCAA had to do something. Ole Miss was the easy, low-hanging fruit that they could go after to make it appear they were interested in doing what they claim they do.

Is Georgia now bringing attention to themselves? You know its bad when you start pulling so many 5 star players that it makes the likes of Alabama, Clemson and LSU look like their recruiting is pedestrian.

[Schultzy]

A good bit of naivete with a dash of milqeutost poliana in this thread.

[FriarsPoint]

The solution to all this, pay for play/admissions, is a simple but expensive one that will NEVER happen. The NFL needs to start its own farm league system. You would get back to true student athletes if that were to happen. But alas, it never will.

[TUSK]

So coaches shouldn't make $10+ mil when the economic impact that a good coach brings to the local area is in excess of 10Xs that?

Why should the CEO of a company make 10 Mil when he does not bring Close to the same economic impact as a good coach?

This is correct. Saban is underpaid, imo.