And yet another story on Bama's advantages to getting in Natty title game every year [Archive]

dawgday166

08-20-2018, 06:31 AM

Jack Lambert

08-20-2018, 07:47 AM

Do we lose revenue when we go to neutral sites?

ShotgunDawg

08-20-2018, 07:53 AM

Saban isn't scared. He's simply working in the best interest of his team within a system that allows the same teams to win every year regardless of how well other teams are coached and run their organization.

I don't have an issue with dynasties so long as the teams winning them don't have every structural advantage possible. When other schools and teams operate at an extremely high level, the rules and structure of the sport should offer those teams a chance.

dawgday166

08-20-2018, 08:00 AM

Do we lose revenue when we go to neutral sites?

I have no idea. Just ran across these 2 articles this morning. Not paying much attention since I've already come to conclusions on most of it. It is what it is.

Ironically, in Rolling with the Tide - Training Days, ole Nick when trying to motivate his players used the quote "What you do speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying". Seems like there is a dichotomy going on here.

I remember when he started crying about how his players might get hurt with the spread of more up-tempo offenses. His LBs were too slow and he couldn't substitute like he wanted to. Funny, the offense ain't substituting either, and he always has the more highly rated players. Yet, per himself, Nick is always expressing things "in the best interest of the sport of CFB" LOL.

Cooterpoot

08-20-2018, 09:08 AM

Do we lose revenue when we go to neutral sites?

We lose recruiting visits (in most cases) and money.

Johnson85

08-20-2018, 10:26 AM

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/true-nonconference-road-games-prove-hazardous-to-college-football-playoff-hopes/

And we're going to Kansas St. this year. They ain't a year-in, year-out powerhouse, but they about like Louisville. Some years KSU pretty good.

Saban ... he skeered to play an away non-conference game. Might lose 2 games in a year.

Well, Bama hasn't had the hardest schedules because of UT being its permanent opponent, but it's not like SEC teams are playing easier schedules than other conferences teams. We rarely have gimmes in conference compared to other conferences.

TUSK

08-20-2018, 10:32 AM

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/true-nonconference-road-games-prove-hazardous-to-college-football-playoff-hopes/

And we're going to Kansas St. this year. They ain't a year-in, year-out powerhouse, but they about like Louisville. Some years KSU pretty good.

Saban ... he skeered to play an away non-conference game. Might lose 2 games in a year.

This is silly, buddy... Have you seen the opening OOC game for Bammer the last 10 years... ?

We could just as easily play a "South Alabama" at home as play a big time program at a neutral site...

ShotgunDawg

08-20-2018, 10:36 AM

This is silly, buddy... Have you seen the opening OOC game for Bammer the last 10 years... ?

We could just as easily play a "South Alabama" at home as play a big time program at a neutral site...

but then you'd have 8 home games. Most everyone plays non-conference road games. You don't.

TUSK

08-20-2018, 10:43 AM

but then you'd have 8 home games. Most everyone plays non-conference road games. You don't.

Alabama did until Saban arrived and have some scheduled in the future, but I believe it was a good marketing tool (at the time) to schedule higher profile opponent early in the season... Just because other schools choose to play OOC games on the road doesn't mean everyone should, does it?

I'm a proponent of scheduling OOC however you want, but with the understanding that SOS could suffer if you go too "soft"...

Token Bammer

08-20-2018, 10:43 AM

Saban played neutral site games for financial gain and a recruiting advantage. It really helped, especially the first few years Saban was here.

However, BAMA and Saban has begun to schedule home and home series. The main reason? It benefits the fans and attendance. We've scheduled several lately and are looking to schedule more because it will benefit the program to do so. Fans attendance to games is something every school is going to be battling in the coming years.

Also, Saban has publically commented that it is very difficult to schedule OOC games for Alabama because teams don't want to risk playing BAMA in the regular season.

Pit Bull

08-20-2018, 02:28 PM

but then you'd have 8 home games. Most everyone plays non-conference road games. You don't.

Cause BAMA can pay other D-1 schools around a million to come to Tuscaloosa and they don't have to return the game as you normally would on a home & home basis. We pay around 300K for most teams to come to Vegas', but we have to return a game to their site. And in cases of teams like USM, Troy, LaTech....we have to do a 2 to 1 deal....ex.....Troy plays twice in Vegas and we go to Troy once. Can you see BAMA going to Troy?....that would be hilarious and would NEVER happen. BTW, I have heard there has been some significant pressure applied for Miss.State to make an appearance vs Jackson State in Memorial Stadium, Jackson, MS. Some legislators are involved which ends up never being good. I would go to a game there if they would let me take in my AR15 with a couple 30 rd clips.

ShotgunDawg

08-20-2018, 02:34 PM

Cause BAMA can pay other D-1 schools around a million to come to Tuscaloosa and they don't have to return the game as you normally would on a home & home basis. We pay around 300K for most teams to come to Vegas', but we have to return a game to their site. And in cases of teams like USM, Troy, LaTech....we have to do a 2 to 1 deal....ex.....Troy plays twice in Vegas and we go to Troy once. Can you see BAMA going to Troy?....that would be hilarious and would NEVER happen. BTW, I have heard there has been some significant pressure applied for Miss.State to make an appearance vs Jackson State in Memorial Stadium, Jackson, MS. Some legislators are involved which ends up never being good. I would go to a game there if they would let me take in my AR15 with a couple 30 rd clips.

No chance MSU should do that when OM isn't even playing instate schools & Arkansas doesn't play instate schools either.

Pit Bull

08-20-2018, 02:53 PM

No chance MSU should do that when OM isn't even playing instate schools & Arkansas doesn't play instate schools either.

Agree, and I am glad we play instate schools. I would rather have played Alcorn, JSU, or MVSU for the first game instead of SFA. At least that way, the money stays in state and helps Mississippi schools.

ShotgunDawg

08-20-2018, 03:41 PM

Agree, and I am glad we play instate schools. I would rather have played Alcorn, JSU, or MVSU for the first game instead of SFA. At least that way, the money stays in state and helps Mississippi schools.

Completely agree.

If the legislature stuffs that down MSU's throats, then we should pull out of all future matchups.

I'm all for playing in-state schools in Starkville, but we should never degrade our program to go on the road to a 1-AA school. That would be certifiably absurd

RocketDawg

08-20-2018, 03:50 PM

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/true-nonconference-road-games-prove-hazardous-to-college-football-playoff-hopes/

And we're going to Kansas St. this year. They ain't a year-in, year-out powerhouse, but they about like Louisville. Some years KSU pretty good.

Saban ... he skeered to play an away non-conference game. Might lose 2 games in a year.

I wonder if that writer really believes that New Orleans and Orlando are "neutral sites" for LSU and Florida State?

I also think that college football is playing too many so-called neutral site games. They should be on campus. The next thing you know we'll be playing home games in Jackson again.

RocketDawg

08-20-2018, 03:55 PM

RocketDawg

08-20-2018, 03:56 PM

I'm kinda surprised that Bama even has to travel to other conference schools. **

Johnson85

08-20-2018, 04:37 PM

I wonder if that writer really believes that New Orleans and Orlando are "neutral sites" for LSU and Florida State?

I also think that college football is playing too many so-called neutral site games. They should be on campus. The next thing you know we'll be playing home games in Jackson again.

I don't know. I like the neutral site games, especially since they get some big time, inter conference matchups early in the season that we otherwise might not get. My only problem with them is that with so many bowl games, it's hard for a lot of people to justify going to them.

RocketDawg

08-20-2018, 05:08 PM

I don't know. I like the neutral site games, especially since they get some big time, inter conference matchups early in the season that we otherwise might not get. My only problem with them is that with so many bowl games, it's hard for a lot of people to justify going to them.

A friend of mine is a Bama fan, and he and his wife are going to the game in Orlando. They're flying to Orlando via Chicago (there are no non-stop flights to Orlando out of Huntsville just yet ... coming in a month or two). Game tickets were $185 each. Don't know what flights cost, but along with hotel, he's probably spending at least $2K on the trip. If it was in Tuscaloosa, he could conceivably drive down and back on the same day. They are retired; the average Joe with a family most likely couldn't afford the trip.

TUSK

08-21-2018, 12:34 AM

I'm kinda surprised that Bama even has to travel to other conference schools. **

I think you should drop the *****....

Tell ya what, we'll bump the check up another $1.5M if y'all will play here every year... I'll even spring for the Uber to get you cats over....

*

ShotgunDawg

08-21-2018, 06:46 AM

I think you should drop the *****....

Tell ya what, we'll bump the check up another $1.5M if y'all will play here every year... I'll even spring for the Uber to get you cats over....

*

Most don't realize but this actually happened in the MSU vs LSU series. MSU played at LSU for about 30 straight years and it's one of the reasons our pre-1990 history is so poor.

Johnson85

08-21-2018, 08:54 AM

A friend of mine is a Bama fan, and he and his wife are going to the game in Orlando. They're flying to Orlando via Chicago (there are no non-stop flights to Orlando out of Huntsville just yet ... coming in a month or two). Game tickets were $185 each. Don't know what flights cost, but along with hotel, he's probably spending at least $2K on the trip. If it was in Tuscaloosa, he could conceivably drive down and back on the same day. They are retired; the average Joe with a family most likely couldn't afford the trip.

And this is maybe why football programs shouldn't be so interested in the neutral site games. Going to suck up money from a lot of their fans that could otherwise go towards their athletic department or at least be spent in the school's town.

TUSK

08-21-2018, 10:13 AM

And this is maybe why football programs shouldn't be so interested in the neutral site games. Going to suck up money from a lot of their fans that could otherwise go towards their athletic department or at least be spent in the school's town.

That's a good point... I wonder what the "break even point" would be...

I know for the last Neutral Site game (FSU), the payout was $5 Million... Plus free rooms...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2017-fsu-alabama-contract-details-5m-per-team-free-hotel-rooms-more/

TUSK

08-21-2018, 10:23 AM

That's a good point... I wonder what the "break even point" would be...

I know for the last Neutral Site game (FSU), the payout was $5 Million... Plus free rooms...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2017-fsu-alabama-contract-details-5m-per-team-free-hotel-rooms-more/

This is another article about the "Jerry World" games... https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-keeping-spot-open-for-2019-or-2020-return-to-cowboys-classic/

I didn't know that these neutral site games paid MORE ($6.5M) that a CFP game ($6M)... and way more than a "good" bowl ($4M)... Plus, I'd imagine that money isn't "spread around"...

Johnson85

08-21-2018, 10:45 AM

This is another article about the "Jerry World" games... https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/alabama-keeping-spot-open-for-2019-or-2020-return-to-cowboys-classic/

I didn't know that these neutral site games paid MORE ($6.5M) that a CFP game ($6M)... and way more than a "good" bowl ($4M)... Plus, I'd imagine that money isn't "spread around"...

What is the face value of an average Bama ticket? Assuming the seat fee remains the same whether Bama plays one of its would be home games at a neutral site, and they have 100k tickets, $100 a ticket would be $10M, less all the operating expenses but plus concessions, but presumably you are getting that pay every other year if you are scheduling a big name opponent.

Versus getting $6.5M each year, but having a lot more travel expenses, but also not having to pay for game day operations, and not getting concessions. I'm guessing it works out pretty close together, but the neutral site costs your fans a lot more? But really no clue how much it cost to put on a game or how much money is made from concessions or how much it costs to travel to a neutral site.

TUSK

08-21-2018, 10:59 AM

What is the face value of an average Bama ticket? Assuming the seat fee remains the same whether Bama plays one of its would be home games at a neutral site, and they have 100k tickets, $100 a ticket would be $10M, less all the operating expenses but plus concessions, but presumably you are getting that pay every other year if you are scheduling a big name opponent.

Versus getting $6.5M each year, but having a lot more travel expenses, but also not having to pay for game day operations, and not getting concessions. I'm guessing it works out pretty close together, but the neutral site costs your fans a lot more? But really no clue how much it cost to put on a game or how much money is made from concessions or how much it costs to travel to a neutral site.

Face Value for a AU/LSU/UT type game are a little higher but I'd guess $100-$125 is about the average... If you can get them... They sell a lot of season ticket packages that are hard to come by...

As a net result, while it's prolly only ~$2M, the University definitely benefits economically from the neutral site games and the fans are gonna go regardless of where it is and how much it costs...

As Token said before, it was really a smart move for several reasons to have these games at the time we did it...

Interpolation_Dawg_EX

08-21-2018, 11:47 AM

Most don't realize but this actually happened in the MSU vs LSU series. MSU played at LSU for about 30 straight years and it's one of the reasons our pre-1990 history is so poor.

It's not just LSU...It's bama and Auburn too.

Bama: we went from 1926 to 1986 without an on campus home game, plus many stretches in the 30's and 40's without a home game at all
Auburn: we went from 1953 to 1978 without an on campus home game and a lot of stretches of playing in Bham and Auburn back to back years
LSU: from 1931 to 1982 we never played a game in Starkville and only played 9 games outside of Louisiana.

ShotgunDawg

08-21-2018, 12:00 PM

It's not just LSU...It's bama and Auburn too.

Bama: we went from 1926 to 1986 without an on campus home game, plus many stretches in the 30's and 40's without a home game at all
Auburn: we went from 1953 to 1978 without an on campus home game and a lot of stretches of playing in Bham and Auburn back to back years
LSU: from 1931 to 1982 we never played a game in Starkville and only played 9 games outside of Louisiana.

Yup.

It's one of the real reasons that it's fairly reasonable to believe that MSU's future in football will be better than it's past.

There is a belief in college football circles that if you haven't won a national championship by now, you probably won't. While I agree with this statement to some degree, I truly believe that MSU is an outlier in this line of thinking due to the easily correctable disadvantages it suffered from in it's past.

- Off campus home games. How do you recruit?
- Poor leadership. Lonnie Tinkle & others who never wanted to invest & sold home games. How do you build?
- One of the most local rosters in college football. MSU is currently a top 25 program & most of the players are from a two hour radius, which insinuates a very good local recruiting ground.
- Scholarship limits have somewhat more evenly distributed talent & my guess is that we'll only see more moving forward.

Put all this together, & I think it's extremely reasonable to believe in a macro sense that MSU is on an upward trajectory. We likely won't ever have the status of Bama, but there is a clear trend of upward mobility that should continue.

Token Bammer

08-21-2018, 01:59 PM