FYI , Baker Sweedenburg answered questions on SPS. Really interesting stuff

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Just thought some of y'all might want to check it out. Mullen is a prick

[BeardoMSU]

Yep. Its a great read.

[Todd4State]

Confirms a lot of what we already knew.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I'm just amazed we won as many games as we did. Sabotaging the kickers by making them run too close to the game? Telling a Fr you wish he hadn't come because it cost you a spot for a different player? Playing guys you like over guys who perform? Checking out mentally late in the year? Running off DCs? We all know he isn't a good recruiter... how the hell did we make so many bowl games with hi making so many blatantly dumb decisions?

[Cooterpoot]

Mullen was a 17r. The State media hated him, a number of players hated him, obviously recruits. Nobody really liked the guy. I bet he has wet dreams about Rick Court.

[thf24]

I'm just amazed we won as many games as we did. Sabotaging the kickers by making them run too close to the game? Telling a Fr you wish he hadn't come because it cost you a spot for a different player? Playing guys you like over guys who perform? Checking out mentally late in the year? Running off DCs? We all know he isn't a good recruiter... how the hell did we make so many bowl games with hi making so many blatantly dumb decisions?

Either Mullen was/is a magician despite his flaws and limitations... or MSU isn't as hard to achieve decent success at as people have come to believe (due to horrible mismanagement for much of the past few 2-3 decades).

[ShotgunDawg]

Mullen was a 17r. The State media hated him, a number of players hated him, obviously recruits. Nobody really liked the guy. I bet he has wet dreams about Rick Court.

But..... he won games and that is all that really matters and what JoMo has not yet proven he can do.

[AlSwearengen]

Things are much different these days. Mullen beat who he was supposed to beat. Never pulled one out of his ass really.

Give him credit for the system he ran and being able to find a qb to do it. That is about it.

[DanDority]

Either Mullen was/is a magician despite his flaws and limitations... or MSU isn't as hard to achieve decent success at as people have come to believe (due to horrible mismanagement for much of the past few 2-3 decades).

Lass Simpleton! Don never had to deal with him!

[Cooterpoot]

But..... he won games and that is all that really matters and what JoMo has not yet proven he can do.

His average finish in the division was 5th out of 7 teams. He lost to OM as much as he beat them. If averaging 7 wins a year is winning, I think Jomo can handle that.

[TrapGame]

But..... he won games and that is all that really matters and what JoMo has not yet proven he can do.

You just can't help it can you? JoMo is a proven head coach that made Fordham competitive. FORDHAM! Mullen cut his teeth here at State and made mistakes that he never learned from.


His average finish in the division was 5th out of 7 teams. He lost to OM as much as he beat them. If averaging 7 wins a year is winning, I think Jomo can handle that.

Mullen, the offensive guru, never beat Bama once. Not one damn time in nine tries. Mullen has not set the bar above Moorhead's reach. Not at all. Just a notch above average is not Mt. Everest.

[msu15]

But..... he won games and that is all that really matters and what JoMo has not yet proven he can do.

LOL....good lord

[Commercecomet24]

You just can't help it can you? JoMo is a proven head coach that made Fordham competitive. FORDHAM! Mullen cut his teeth here at State and made mistakes that he never learned from.



Mullen, the offensive guru, never beat Bama once. Not one damn time in nine tries. Mullen has not set the bar above Moorhead's reach. Not at all. Just a notch above average is not Mt. Everest.

Rep Given!

[BeardoMSU]

But..... he won games and that is all that really matters and what JoMo has not yet proven he can do.

https://m0.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/23145702/Ugly.gif

[fishwater99]

But..... he won games and that is all that really matters and what JoMo has not yet proven he can do.

Mullen couldn't beat Top 20 teams. Never Beat Bama.. Freeze beat them twice..

GTFOH

[confucius say]

Dan proved you could win 7-8 games a yeast here consistently. He made the job so much better than it was in December 2008 when he took it.
He's an ass and I'll forever hold a grudge for the bed-crapping he did on his way out, but he made us relevant.

I do believe Joe will be as good or better.

[Johnson85]

Either Mullen was/is a magician despite his flaws and limitations... or MSU isn't as hard to achieve decent success at as people have come to believe (due to horrible mismanagement for much of the past few 2-3 decades).

It's some of both. We're probably the 5th easiest place to win in the SECW. Bama/LSU, then Auburn/A&M, then MSU then UM/Ark. So that's a tough road to hoe in division, but we also are fortunately matched with a permanent east opponent that is harder to win at than State. So basically just going chalk should put us at an average of 6 wins b/w 3 OOC cucakes, UM, Ark, and UK. Then we'll often get a middling 4th OOC game.

But the difference between MSU, UM, and Ark is so slight, it might as well be a toss up, so we do need a better than average coach (compared to Ark/UM/UK or other SEC opponents) to consistently hit that 6-7 wins per regular season.

Mullen was that better than average coach for us. He was really good at some things and overall very good at managing a program and implementing his program with some flaws that kept him from really capitalizing on all the good things he does. So he hasn't set the bar at some unattainable height. But he is definitely not an easy coach to replace. I feel pretty good about Moorhead because of his prior experience and because I think Cohen can spot talent, but obviously UF, UT, and USCe couldn't do better than him over multiple chances, and outside of Cohen making the choice, I would have put the chances of Mullen's replacement doing as well as him at well under 50%.

[Bothrops]

It's all about who's coach. It's all about that.

[Dawg61]

But..... he won games and that is all that really matters and what JoMo has not yet proven he can do.

Is that you Baylor?

[Leroy Jenkins]

What is SPS?

[MadDawg]

It will be interesting to read the inside scoop about Moorhead in a few years. ***

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

What is SPS?

Six Pack Speak. Link to thread:

http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?189228-I-Played-Football-for-State-from-09-13-Ask-Me-Anything&p=1519262#post1519262

[msbulldog]

What is SPS?

Six Pack Speak. Here's a link to Baker's thread:
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?189228-I-Played-Football-for-State-from-09-13-Ask-Me-Anything&p=1519262#post1519262

[RocketDawg]

Things are much different these days. Mullen beat who he was supposed to beat. Never pulled one out of his ass really.

Give him credit for the system he ran and being able to find a qb to do it. That is about it.

Beating Florida and his old boss Urban at Florida was pretty impressive.

[Bass Chaser]

Beating Florida and his old boss Urban at Florida was pretty impressive.

If it was so impressive why doesn’t anyone bring it up?

[Pit Bull]

Things are much different these days. Mullen beat who he was supposed to beat. Never pulled one out of his ass really.

Give him credit for the system he ran and being able to find a qb to do it. That is about it.

Except for South BAMA.....That one stung quite a bit and set the tone for that season. Luckily our guys showed up for class and got us a bowl game.

[Pit Bull]

But..... he won games and that is all that really matters and what JoMo has not yet proven he can do.

Technically correct, but not how I would have stated it. While, yes JoMo has yet to win a game.....his track record certainly indicates he knows what he's doing. To take a Fordham team from the bottom to the top and win several league championships is very telling. His 2 year stint at PennState shows the same.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

SEC TV deal and getting rid of Templeton helped MSU Football more than Mullen.

[Goldendawg]

Either Mullen was/is a magician despite his flaws and limitations... or MSU isn't as hard to achieve decent success at as people have come to believe (due to horrible mismanagement for much of the past few 2-3 decades).

I've posted this before. Not as hard to be a 7 to 8 win team in a 12 game regular season and a bowl at MSU with decent players as it used to be. Beat 4 OOC cupcakes, beat KY, beat another SEC (L)East team, beat Arky (already at 7), beat UNM at least 50% of the time and LSU or Auby every once in a while, never beat bama (looking at you Dan) and win the Bowl. There it is. Read Swede's thread on SPS yesterday ( read SPS daily-have never posted). Thought it was one of the best threads that I have ever read. Hail Swede! Hail State!

[Todd4State]

I've posted this before. Not as hard to be a 7 to 8 win team in a 12 game regular season and a bowl at MSU with decent players as it used to be. Beat 4 OOC cupcakes, beat KY, beat another SEC (L)East team, beat Arky (already at 7), beat UNM at least 50% of the time and LSU or Auby every once in a while, never beat bama (looking at you Dan) and win the Bowl. There it is. Read Swede's thread on SPS yesterday ( read SPS daily-have never posted). Thought it was one of the best threads that I have ever read. Hail Swede! Hail State!

We have some fans that don't understand how the climate of college football has changed in the BSC/Playoff era. And because of that Dan got more of a pass from our fans than he should have.

[Goldendawg]

We have some fans that don't understand how the climate of college football has changed in the BSC/Playoff era. And because of that Dan got more of a pass from our fans than he should have.

Croome wasn't a very hard act to follow either. Hail State!

[TrapGame]

Croome wasn't a very hard act to follow either. Hail State!

Yeah, I don't get the Mullen worship. Croom was awful, just plain awful, as a coach. Some guy that knows his ass from a hole in the ground is a huge step up. Mullen was an average coach that could develop a quarterback but couldn't recruit or take advantage of a stellar QB and a #1 ranking in the polls.

[TUSK]

There is a lot of "correct" in this thread...

With the 12 game schedule and ~40 bowls, "success" has been redefined, IMO...

As stated prior, MSU has 5 to 6 "automatic" wins every year... so, 6 wins puts ya in the top ~80 teams...

Arkie & LSU are in the shitter/transition, A&M & UF are in transition, Aubie is jeckyl/hyde, Bammer has injuries (again) and has lots of players to replace (again)...

[Todd4State]

Croome wasn't a very hard act to follow either. Hail State!

Very true. Croom did very little to endear himself to the fanbase even with the occasional win over Florida, Alabama, or Ole Miss. It was pretty evident the whole time that Croom looked down on us and really wanted to be at Alabama. I felt like we didn't make any progress or at least much progress in the five years he was here.

So, yeah the bar was set very low. Hey Dan! Try not to lose to Maine.

[Todd4State]

Yeah, I don't get the Mullen worship. Croom was awful, just plain awful, as a coach. Some guy that knows his ass from a hole in the ground is a huge step up. Mullen was an average coach that could develop a quarterback but couldn't recruit or take advantage of a stellar QB and a #1 ranking in the polls.

To be honest I've had issues with every coach in my "fan lifetime". Felker wasn't good outside of 1986 where we collapsed at the end of the year and the 1987 Egg Bowl. Jackie won some really big games- he beat either the SEC East or West Champion four times between 1996-2000 alone. (1996 Bama, 97 Auburn, 2000 Auburn, 2000 Florida) and then he also beat 1992 Florida who also won the East. And in the 1996-2000 time span the two seasons we didn't beat a division champ we won it ourselves in 98 and went 10-2 in 1999. Jackie proved to me that we could compete with the better teams in the SEC- something Dan just didn't do enough. Now, what drove me nuts about Jackie was the team discipline on the field was awful about 90% of the time, his offense was boring if we're all honest with ourselves, and then the "you can only get a team up for three games" mantra. Which I believe led to his embarrassing losses which he was very prone to do at least 1-2 times a year whether it was to Troy or getting beat down 41-6 at LSU. This is also why I like Joe's "Championship Standard" mantra because it focuses more on challenging yourself against the game and should in theory reduce the likelihood of a letdown.


Croom is what would have happened to MSU football in the 1990's if LT made the hire instead of Zacharias. I know I'm in the minority of MSU fans that actually enjoyed 2007 and the Liberty Bowl that year. Winning football games because of "fluke INT's and punt returns"? Yeah- so what? It's still a win. He was stubborn and he lacked attention to detail. The result was a mess on offense. And the thing that he did that pissed me off the most- not losing to Tulane, not losing to Maine even though both are horrible...as a guy that grew up a 49ers fan in the 1980's and 1990's I had to watch him bastardize Bill Walsh's offense for five years. Overall- a pretty forgettable era with a few big wins sprinkled in.


My biggest problem with Dan is of course not just the fact that he didn't win enough big games. It's HOW he coached us in big games. Dan is what I would imagine your average school bully would be like as a SEC football coach. Arrogant, aggressive and pretty consistently takes milk money from the chess team. (La Tech) But when he goes up against the football players in school- he pretty much cowers down (Alabama). That and I don't think he was held accountable enough for his shortcomings- especially under Stricklin. Recruiting, personnel management, tanking the Egg Bowl because he wants his ego stroked. I'm no Baker Swedenburg but I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason why he finally left was because Cohen was actually holding him accountable for a change. I do appreciate 2010 and 2014 and unlike the other guys I mentioned he consistently beat people he was supposed to. So, there is something to be said for that. But at the same time- glad he's gone.

[Todd4State]

There is a lot of "correct" in this thread...

With the 12 game schedule and ~40 bowls, "success" has been redefined, IMO...

As stated prior, MSU has 5 to 6 "automatic" wins every year... so, 6 wins puts ya in the top ~80 teams...

Arkie & LSU are in the shitter/transition, A&M & UF are in transition, Aubie is jeckyl/hyde, Bammer has injuries (again) and has lots of players to replace (again)...

Probably more accurate to define it by bowl tier. I know they "all count the same" but to me the NYD Bowls that aren't NY6 are still better to me than say- the Pinstripe Bowl. I think it has to be defined for a SEC team as NY6, followed by NYD, followed by Minor Bowl, and then no bowl.

Really there is almost no reason for a SEC team not named Vanderbilt or Kentucky to make a bowl. OK- maybe probation. Looking at you Ole Miss.

[the59dawg]

Mullen couldn't beat Top 20 teams. Never Beat Bama.. Freeze beat them twice..

GTFOH

So did CROOM!!!

[Pollodawg]

To be honest I've had issues with every coach in my "fan lifetime". Felker wasn't good outside of 1986 where we collapsed at the end of the year and the 1987 Egg Bowl. Jackie won some really big games- he beat either the SEC East or West Champion four times between 1996-2000 alone. (1996 Bama, 97 Auburn, 2000 Auburn, 2000 Florida) and then he also beat 1992 Florida who also won the East. And in the 1996-2000 time span the two seasons we didn't beat a division champ we won it ourselves in 98 and went 10-2 in 1999. Jackie proved to me that we could compete with the better teams in the SEC- something Dan just didn't do enough. Now, what drove me nuts about Jackie was the team discipline on the field was awful about 90% of the time, his offense was boring if we're all honest with ourselves, and then the "you can only get a team up for three games" mantra. Which I believe led to his embarrassing losses which he was very prone to do at least 1-2 times a year whether it was to Troy or getting beat down 41-6 at LSU. This is also why I like Joe's "Championship Standard" mantra because it focuses more on challenging yourself against the game and should in theory reduce the likelihood of a letdown.


Croom is what would have happened to MSU football in the 1990's if LT made the hire instead of Zacharias. I know I'm in the minority of MSU fans that actually enjoyed 2007 and the Liberty Bowl that year. Winning football games because of "fluke INT's and punt returns"? Yeah- so what? It's still a win. He was stubborn and he lacked attention to detail. The result was a mess on offense. And the thing that he did that pissed me off the most- not losing to Tulane, not losing to Maine even though both are horrible...as a guy that grew up a 49ers fan in the 1980's and 1990's I had to watch him bastardize Bill Walsh's offense for five years. Overall- a pretty forgettable era with a few big wins sprinkled in.


My biggest problem with Dan is of course not just the fact that he didn't win enough big games. It's HOW he coached us in big games. Dan is what I would imagine your average school bully would be like as a SEC football coach. Arrogant, aggressive and pretty consistently takes milk money from the chess team. (La Tech) But when he goes up against the football players in school- he pretty much cowers down (Alabama). That and I don't think he was held accountable enough for his shortcomings- especially under Stricklin. Recruiting, personnel management, tanking the Egg Bowl because he wants his ego stroked. I'm no Baker Swedenburg but I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason why he finally left was because Cohen was actually holding him accountable for a change. I do appreciate 2010 and 2014 and unlike the other guys I mentioned he consistently beat people he was supposed to. So, there is something to be said for that. But at the same time- glad he's gone.

This. I don’t hate Dan. I also, so far, don’t miss Dan. And I don’t anticipate missing him.

[CadaverDawg]

I agree that Mullen jumped in at a good time and winning 6+ is easier now....but I'm also able to put my dislike of him to the side and say that while he may have had "6 auto wins", those 6 weren't "auto" prior to Dan. He brought us out of the Croom abyss, and he has forever changed the QB position at MSU and the ability to recruit QB's. For that alone we should be so grateful. He also got us to a point where we expect to beat the Ark's and Kentucky's, and expect to be able to have a toss up with much better recruiters like LSU, AU, and A&M every year. I'm super grateful for what Dan did, but in no way do I think he set an unattainable bar. He did set a floor and a foundation that makes surpassing his bar possible though. Moorhead is in about the best position possible for a coach that is taking over for the best coach in a program's history imo.