Let's talk Hunter Renfroe

[somebodyshotmypaw]

I was looking at Renfroe's stats this year versus last year. It can be hard to compare because of an unequal number of at-bats.

So I took Hunter's numbers and extrapolated them over 600 plate appearances (150 games with 4 plate appearances per game). Notice that I said 600 plate appearances, not 600 at-bats. Based on 600 plate appearances his stats would be this:

31.3 doubles and 32.5 homers in 2017
40.1 doubles and 28.3 homers in 2018

175.3 strikeouts and 33.8 walks in 2017
151.1 strikeouts and 49.6 walks in 2018

63.8 runs and 72.6 RBI in 2017
73.2 runs and 92.1 RBI in 2018

0.231 average, 0.284 OBP, 0.467 slugging in 2017
0.250 average, 0.315 OBP, 0.491 slugging in 2018

0.751 OPS in 2017
0.806 OPS in 2018

[Rick Danko]

He?ll never make it in the pros because a certain someone told me so****

[BrunswickDawg]

And he has homered in 4 straight games - including a game winning Grand Slam yesterday.

He has hit the Padres last 4 Grand Slams.

[Tbonewannabe]

Any clue on his defensive metrics this year? He has made some Sportscenter highlight type plays but I don't know what his overall defense has looked like. He is definitely improving so I guess he is putting in the work. Guys that can hit 450 - 500 ft homers can get away with hitting .230-.250.

[msstate7]

He?ll never make it in the pros because a certain someone told me so****

Yep. C34 must have forgot to throw his renfroe take in our faces

[msstate7]

Any clue on his defensive metrics this year? He has made some Sportscenter highlight type plays but I don't know what his overall defense has looked like. He is definitely improving so I guess he is putting in the work. Guys that can hit 450 - 500 ft homers can get away with hitting .230-.250.

He has -5.5 def value in 72 games according to fangraphs. This would be -12.4 over 162 games. Not good

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Offensively, Hunter has improved in every statistic except for homeruns. Certainly bettering his strikeout/walk ratio from 5/1 to 3/1 has been needed. He's improved his patience and approach. But he's still a work-in-progress.

[Coach34]

Yep. C34 must have forgot to throw his renfroe take in our faces

Looks like I'm gonna be wrong on Renfroe. He made some major changes and they have paid off. Awesome for him and our school.

[msstate7]

Looks like I'm gonna be wrong on Renfroe. He made some major changes and they have paid off. Awesome for him and our school.

Well I'll be dang... nice to meet the new C34 haha

Renfroe better fix that defense before we get too carried away about him though

[Lord McBuckethead]

Well I'll be dang... nice to meet the new C34 haha

Renfroe better fix that defense before we get too carried away about him though

Nope, always can be a DH.

[Bully13]

He has -5.5 def value in 72 games according to fangraphs. This would be -12.4 over 162 games. Not good

wasn't he a good fielder for us? or no? I guess I'm still just remembering that catch up against the wall he made in Omaha. Isn't he the one who also has a cannon? wasn't the guy who threw that runner out from the corner?

[msstate7]

wasn't he a good fielder for us? or no? I guess I'm still just remembering that catch up against the wall he made in Omaha. Isn't he the one who also has a cannon? wasn't the guy who threw that runner out from the corner?

He had one hell of an arm....still does. I don't remember him being a butcher in college, but he's being compared to pros now though

[somebodyshotmypaw]

wasn't he a good fielder for us? or no? I guess I'm still just remembering that catch up against the wall he made in Omaha. Isn't he the one who also has a cannon? wasn't the guy who threw that runner out from the corner?

Hunter is a very good athlete. And yes, he has a freaking cannon. But that doesn't always make you a good fielder. Sometimes he takes a poor route to the ball. Sometimes he likes to attempt to throw someone out when he should have hit the cut-off man. Sometimes the arm is strong, but not accurate.

Hunter still needs to improve further. But he is definitely making strides.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

BA/OBP/SLG

2017 vs RHP .202/.244/.393
2017 vs LHP .316/.392/.684

2018 vs RHP .243/.290/.479
2018 vs LHP .262/.354/.512

So in 2018 he has cooled off some versus lefties. But he has improved his hitting versus righthanders.

[msstate7]

Everyone pull especially hard for hunter this weekend. Help us brave fans out, renfroe

[Dawg61]

He has -5.5 def value in 72 games according to fangraphs. This would be -12.4 over 162 games. Not good

Fangraphs and baseball analytics nerds need to get ****ed. This is the most bullshit stat I have ever seen. He has 6 errors on the year. They are punishing players that don't have elite speed period. Renfroe catches the ball when they hit it at him and he has an elite arm. His defense is fine. Go **** yourself nerdgraphs.

[msstate7]

Fangraphs and baseball analytics nerds need to get ****ed. This is the most bullshit stat I have ever seen. He has 6 errors on the year. They are punishing players that don't have elite speed period. Renfroe catches the ball when they hit it at him and he has an elite arm. His defense is fine. Go **** yourself nerdgraphs.

You realize 6 errors is a lot, right? Nick markakis (bad RF in his own right) only had 6 errors total the previous 3 seasons, and played 150+ games in each season. Hunter has 5 in 72 games, and only has 96 PO. His fielding % is .952. Even if you want to use old school fielding metrics, hunter is bad.

You're a giants' fan. Hunter pence is a lousy defender, and his worst fielding % of his career is .977

[Bully13]

Everyone pull especially hard for hunter this weekend. Help us brave fans out, renfroe

? I thought Hunter was with the Padres. shows you how much I know about MLB.

[msstate7]

? I thought Hunter was with the Padres. shows you how much I know about MLB.

He is a padre. Padres play Phillies... Phillies and braves in pennant race

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Fangraphs and baseball analytics nerds need to get ****ed. This is the most bullshit stat I have ever seen. He has 6 errors on the year. They are punishing players that don't have elite speed period. Renfroe catches the ball when they hit it at him and he has an elite arm. His defense is fine. Go **** yourself nerdgraphs.

It ain't just about catching the ball when it is hit to you. It's also about catching the ball when it's hit 100 feet away from you. So players without elite speed should be punished. For instance, let's say you could put Jake Mangum in centerfield and he promised to only drop 1 ball. Or you could put MSU right tackle Stewart Reese in centerfield and he promised to drop zero balls. Mangum would still be a better fielder because he would get to so many more balls. Mangum might get to 300 balls (dropping one). Reese might get to only 50 (but never dropped one).

[Dawg61]

It ain't just about catching the ball when it is hit to you. It's also about catching the ball when it's hit 100 feet away from you. So players without elite speed should be punished. For instance, let's say you could put Jake Mangum in centerfield and he promised to only drop 1 ball. Or you could put MSU right tackle Stewart Reese in centerfield and he promised to drop zero balls. Mangum would still be a better fielder because he would get to so many more balls. Mangum might get to 300 balls (dropping one). Reese might get to only 50 (but never dropped one).

I get it but it's an unfair measure. If Lamar Peters was 7 feet tall he'd dunk a lot more. That's basically what the baseball defensive analytics have come down to. There is such a thing as overthinking things and the baseball nerds went way past that point about two days after Moneyball came out.

[Dawg61]

You realize 6 errors is a lot, right? Nick markakis (bad RF in his own right) only had 6 errors total the previous 3 seasons, and played 150+ games in each season. Hunter has 5 in 72 games, and only has 96 PO. His fielding % is .952. Even if you want to use old school fielding metrics, hunter is bad.

You're a giants' fan. Hunter pence is a lousy defender, and his worst fielding % of his career is .977

You over analyze everything baseball. 6 errors isn't a lot. It's six. Like 1,2,3,4,5,6. That many. I love how you expect progression for rookies in hitting but have zero patience for it defensively.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

I get it but it's an unfair measure. If Lamar Peters was 7 feet tall he'd dunk a lot more. That's basically what the baseball defensive analytics have come down to. There is such a thing as overthinking things and the baseball nerds went way past that point about two days after Moneyball came out.

True. But there is no difference in a dunk and a layup, or a dunk and a mid-range jumper. They are all two points. There is a big difference in a dunk and a missed shot (2 points versus 0 points). Defensively in baseball it is about getting outs. Catching a ball produces an out. Letting it drop for a single because you didn't have the speed to get to it is a totally different issue.

And I agree that overthinking things can occur.

[msstate7]

You over analyze everything baseball. 6 errors isn't a lot. It's six. Like 1,2,3,4,5,6. That many. I love how you expect progression for rookies in hitting but have zero patience for it defensively.

When did I say he couldn't get better? His is 26 though, so I wouldn't bank on it. Generally OFs start getting worse as they approach 30, not better

[Dawg61]

When did I say he couldn't get better? His is 26 though, so I wouldn't bank on it. Generally OFs start getting worse as they approach 30, not better

Why does everyone feel the need to nitpick everyone now cause they aren't Mike Trout? Renfroe is on fire and this thread is now turned into how he's garbage because he's not a ten time gold glove winner. You guys shit on C34 for this in one sentence and then practice it yourself in the next.

[msstate7]

Why does everyone feel the need to nitpick everyone now cause they aren't Mike Trout? Renfroe is on fire and this thread is now turned into how he's garbage because he's not a ten time gold glove winner. You guys shit on C34 for this in one sentence and then practice it yourself in the next.

Fine. Renfroe is the next Roberto Clemente. Possibly the best corner OF in mlb history. Jeez... despite hunter's defensive issues, he's on pace to be ~ 2 fWAR player. He's hitting quite well at the moment and improved walk and strike out rate

[smootness]

I get it but it's an unfair measure. If Lamar Peters was 7 feet tall he'd dunk a lot more. That's basically what the baseball defensive analytics have come down to. There is such a thing as overthinking things and the baseball nerds went way past that point about two days after Moneyball came out.

What are you talking about?

It's not a referendum on Hunter Renfroe as a human being or on how much of his potential he's reached. It's simply a comparison to other baseball players...since that is all that ever matters. The ability of an athlete is only meaningful when compared to other athletes in his/her sport and at his/her position. If there were 10 baseball players in the country, I'd be great at it. Since there are about 10 million, I suck at it.

Hunter Renfroe has room to improve quite a bit defensively. Will he? I have no idea, I certainly hope he does. Even if he doesn't, he can be a valuable major league player for several years. He is hitting very well right now, and that is a good thing. I love that he played for State, that he is in the majors, that he is succeeding, and I hope he continues.

But is he good defensively? No, not compared to other RF in major league baseball. The analytics simply help explain that. What good would a measure that only compared a player to himself be?

[sandwolf]

Renfroe is on fire and this thread is now turned into how he's garbage because he's not a ten time gold glove winner.

The only thing that turned this thread was you attacking people for posting facts that you didn't like and trying to argue with them on a topic that you clearly know nothing about. Belligerent and ill informed have become recurring themes with you.

[Dawg61]

The only thing that turned this thread was you attacking people for posting facts that you didn't like and trying to argue with them on a topic that you clearly know nothing about. Belligerent and ill informed have become recurring themes with you.

Only people I've "attacked" are baseball analytics nerds and nerdgraphs. You align yourself with those people expect some heat as those people have become the enemy to America's favorite pastime constantly trying to change it into computer baseball.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Only people I've "attacked" are baseball analytics nerds and nerdgraphs. You align yourself with those people expect some heat as those people have become the enemy to America's favorite pastime constantly trying to change it into computer baseball.

The bold part I agree with. All of the computerized stuff on exit velocities, exit angles, etc. are turning it into computer baseball. I love it when a football coach studies film and figures out how to attack a defense. I would hate it if an office guy entered football film into a computer and a microsoft program spit out a spreadsheet of the plays he should run. Baseball is becoming that.

[msstate7]

Curious where you anti-analytic guys draw the line. Do you not want any scouting at all? Let's say you were the pitcher facing the braves. Would you not want to do any homework at all on what pitches and location are effective vs Brave hitters?

[smootness]

The analytic movement in baseball is born out of one desire - to understand the sport better. Period. This idea that they're trying to make everyone into robots doesn't even make sense. Is a coach who teaches all of his players how to block using the same technique trying to make everyone robots? Is a GM who says, 'BA and RBI are good, let's get guys who can produce those things,' trying to make everyone robots?

It's the exact same thing. It's just that there is a sizable contingent of fans out there who have no desire to learn more and are simply nostalgic for the way they always watched baseball, so they get angry when someone brings something new.

You hold batting average sacred...yet if you had started watching baseball before batting average was introduced as a concept, you would have been angry and called those people 'nerds' who were set on ruining baseball by making everyone robots. It's the exact same thing, it's just been developed further.

[Dawg61]

Curious where you anti-analytic guys draw the line. Do you not want any scouting at all? Let's say you were the pitcher facing the braves. Would you not want to do any homework at all on what pitches and location are effective vs Brave hitters?

The line was crossed when rules started getting changed. Keep it to just scouting and I have zero issues with it. Try to get robot umpires, instant replay every detail and have Anthony Rizzo changing gloves 20 times a game cause the Cubs shift 2,500 times in a season and I'm speaking up. Quit changing baseball to better fit computer data.