Jordan Rodgers just said

[TrapGame]

MSU is a legit contender for the West. Our defense will be nasty. Our offense will be dangerous b/c JoMo calling plays and Getsy's work with the WRs.

And...He thinks we're better than Auburn.

The wool gettin' thick.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think it's a really good debate.

IMO, Auburn's greatest case is based around 2 things: Last year's score & recruiting rankings.

I think MSU's case is based around actually comparing the starters at each position, home field, & schedule.

While Auburn did blow us out last year, I believe it's important to remember a few things about that game:

1. It was the week after us getting blown out at UGA, who played in the natty
2. It was on the road at Jordan-Hare. Remember Auburn beat both UGA & Bama at Jordan Hare last year. They beat Bama by 12 & UGA 40-17. So getting blown out at Jordan Hare last year happened to the national title contenders.
3. We had a game changing scoop & score blown dead. Perhaps the game ends up the same, but that was a huge blow on the road with a team coming off getting blown out by UGA.

Comparing us to Auburn this year, I think it comes down to a few things:

1. Stidham is good but so is Fitz. I don't see a huge talent difference there. They are just different types of QBs
2. We can debate all day which front 7 is better. In the end, I don't think either team runs the ball all that well in the game anyway.
3. Auburn is replacing 4 starters on the OL while we are returning 4 guys. HUGE ADVANTAGE FOR MSU
4. Auburn is replacing their star RB while MSU not.

So, regardless if Auburn's front 7 is better than ours or not, I believe when we play them this year, our front 7 will play better in that game due to Auburn's young, inexperienced OL playing in their first true road game. I look for our defense to play very very well against them

Conversely, I don't see us having much success on the ground that day either. So, IMO, if MSU is able to throw the ball with any sort of consistency in that game & not give Auburn short fields, due to turnovers, MSU should have a great great chance to win.

[Commercecomet24]

I think it's a really good debate.

IMO, Auburn's greatest case is based around 2 things: Last year's score & recruiting rankings.

I think MSU's case is based around actually comparing the starters at each position, home field, & schedule.

While Auburn did blow us out last year, I believe it's important to remember a few things about that game:

1. It was the week after us getting blown out at UGA, who played in the natty
2. It was on the road at Jordan-Hare. Remember Auburn beat both UGA & Bama at Jordan Hare last year. They beat Bama by 12 & UGA 40-17. So getting blown out at Jordan Hare last year happened to the national title contenders.
3. We had a game changing scoop & score blown dead. Perhaps the game ends up the same, but that was a huge blow on the road with a team coming off getting blown out by UGA.

Comparing us to Auburn this year, I think it comes down to a few things:

1. Stidham is good but so is Fitz. I don't see a huge talent difference there. They are just different types of QBs
2. We can debate all day which front 7 is better. In the end, I don't think either team runs the ball all that well in the game anyway.
3. Auburn is replacing 4 starters on the OL while we are returning 4 guys. HUGE ADVANTAGE FOR MSU
4. Auburn is replacing their star RB while MSU not.

So, regardless if Auburn's front 7 is better than ours or not, I believe when we play them this year, our front 7 will play better in that game due to Auburn's young, inexperienced OL playing in their first true road game. I look for our defense to play very very well against them

Conversely, I don't see us having much success on the ground that day either. So, IMO, if MSU is able to throw the ball with any sort of consistency in that game & not give Auburn short fields, due to turnovers, MSU should have a great great chance to win.

Good analysis. Don't forget all the injuries to Auburn's WR group as well. Their offense is gonna scuffle some with new ols, rbs, and the injuries at wr.

[ShotgunDawg]

Good analysis. Don't forget all the injuries to Auburn's WR group as well. Their offense is gonna scuffle some with new ols, rbs, and the injuries at wr.

No doubt.

I do find it interesting how everyone points to them being so much better than us due the score of last year's game, but no one says that Auburn is better than UGA or Bama, even though they did practically the same thing to them last year at home.

[TrapGame]

Rodgers pointed out Auburn's OL as their big weakness. That's one of the reasons he puts us ahead of them.

[ShotgunDawg]

Rodgers pointed out Auburn's OL as their big weakness. That's one of the reasons he puts us ahead of them.

And he is correct.

It's just too early IMO to really handicap that game. There are simply too many unknowns at this point that will be knowns by the time we play:

Is Fitz fully healthy, meaning is he cutting & running at his max level?
Is there a drop off with Moorhead? As Brad Edwards said this morning, "Mullen was the best coach in MSU history. Is it really reasonable that they won't miss a beat with Moorhead?"
Is Auburn's new OL worth a damn?
Is Auburn's new feature RB worth a damn?
Will Stidham be the same QB while operating under more pressure due to lesser OL?

It's just a tough game to figure out on August 6th

[Liverpooldawg]

I'll wait till I see us against a good opponent before I get to excited.

[Todd4State]

I think the Auburn game will be based in part on how we do the week before against Florida. We win the Florida game and I think the Auburn game will be a 2014 MSU/Auburn game atmosphere. If we lose to Florida it's going to be hard to focus on getting focused back again for Auburn.

[Jack Lambert]

He also said that Moorhead was the best Hire of all the hires.

[justwin]

Didn’t auburn lose some dL too? Or was that the year before?

[TUSK]

One thing I thought Your former coach did well was slow the game down (vs Bammer) & limit plays/possessions.

I don’t know much about JoMo, is that style in his playbook?

[Walkerhill]

Well? When we slowed the game down in the second half Bama turned the screws and took control of the game. I can see how a Bama fan would like that, but ... not sure it was really good coaching,

[TUSK]

Well? When we slowed the game down in the second half Bama turned the screws and took control of the game. I can see how a Bama fan would like that, but ... not sure it was really good coaching,

Totally agree. However, I believe it gave you cats a chance.

Y’all hammered TOP & 3rd downs... and plays run, bc of that.

The inability to stop the Bammer run game was the death kneel.

[Lord McBuckethead]

And you know, Ridley getting to leave the field of play, come back in and catch the ball made it difficult.

[Cowbell]

Totally agree. However, I believe it gave you cats a chance.

Y?all hammered TOP & 3rd downs... and plays run, bc of that.

The inability to stop the Bammer run game was the death kneel.


Nope that wasn?t the issue. You guys couldn?t stop our run game but we couldn?t stop Ridley and contain Hurts when nobody was open.

[BiscuitEater]

Auburn's first 'real' away game will be @ DWS with 30,000+ cowbells ringing in their heads!

[MarketingBully]

I'll wait till I see us against a good opponent before I get to excited.

Of course, you probably also aren’t wooly on our men’s basketball team even though this is more talent then we have ever had on one team in our history. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the 2018-2019 MSU sports season. There aren’t going to be many that will collectively be as great as the one coming up.

[Bdawg]

I think it's a really good debate.

IMO, Auburn's greatest case is based around 2 things: Last year's score & recruiting rankings.

I think MSU's case is based around actually comparing the starters at each position, home field, & schedule.

While Auburn did blow us out last year, I believe it's important to remember a few things about that game:

1. It was the week after us getting blown out at UGA, who played in the natty
2. It was on the road at Jordan-Hare. Remember Auburn beat both UGA & Bama at Jordan Hare last year. They beat Bama by 12 & UGA 40-17. So getting blown out at Jordan Hare last year happened to the national title contenders.
3. We had a game changing scoop & score blown dead. Perhaps the game ends up the same, but that was a huge blow on the road with a team coming off getting blown out by UGA.

Comparing us to Auburn this year, I think it comes down to a few things:

1. Stidham is good but so is Fitz. I don't see a huge talent difference there. They are just different types of QBs
2. We can debate all day which front 7 is better. In the end, I don't think either team runs the ball all that well in the game anyway.
3. Auburn is replacing 4 starters on the OL while we are returning 4 guys. HUGE ADVANTAGE FOR MSU
4. Auburn is replacing their star RB while MSU not.

So, regardless if Auburn's front 7 is better than ours or not, I believe when we play them this year, our front 7 will play better in that game due to Auburn's young, inexperienced OL playing in their first true road game. I look for our defense to play very very well against them

Conversely, I don't see us having much success on the ground that day either. So, IMO, if MSU is able to throw the ball with any sort of consistency in that game & not give Auburn short fields, due to turnovers, MSU should have a great great chance to win.

This is the key to the game imo. Hopefully we pressure Stidham way more than they pressure Fitz, and they don't have that bruiser to hand it off to. May have to really watch out for their screen game to get the ball out fast to their WRs or smaller RB if they can't block us.

[BigEasyDawg]

No doubt.

I do find it interesting how everyone points to them being so much better than us due the score of last year's game, but no one says that Auburn is better than UGA or Bama, even though they did practically the same thing to them last year at home.

I totally agree man, good analysis. I really hope to see our Simmons, Montez, Gerri, and Rivers in Stidhams face the entire game. If we can do that and force throws, I can see Mclaurin, cole, and Dantzler with some INTS and we take the game.

[MarketingBully]

Totally agree. However, I believe it gave you cats a chance.

Y’all hammered TOP & 3rd downs... and plays run, bc of that.

The inability to stop the Bammer run game was the death kneel.

******* gave you guys a gift when he chose to decline the running into the kicker penalty and keep the field goal to only be up 7. If he accepted the penalty, it would have been 4th and 1 and the way we were running in you guys with Williams and Fitz we would have scored a TD and gone up 11. The only way you beat a team like Alabama if you are us or say Ole Miss is take chances. ******* never took chances against Bama hence 0-9.

[Cooterpoot]

The biggest concern with the AU game is the FL game. We're going to be sky high and use a lot of energy in that FL game. Win or lose, going to be tough to turn around and play AU. Being at home is big.

[Bubb Rubb]

As Brad Edwards said this morning, "Mullen was the best coach in MSU history. Is it really reasonable that they won't miss a beat with Moorhead?"


I sure do get tired of hearing this. Mullen did a good job for us but there are certainly several areas for improvement. We've already seen improvement in one area with Moorhead's recruiting. We're seeing another example with the depth chart - Moorhead will play the best players.

[BulldogDX55]

The biggest concern with the AU game is the FL game. We're going to be sky high and use a lot of energy in that FL game. Win or lose, going to be tough to turn around and play AU. Being at home is big.

I'm not too concerned about it. In 2014, we slapped around LSU, A&M, and Auburn in consecutive weeks.

[Johnson85]

I'm not too concerned about it. In 2014, we slapped around LSU, A&M, and Auburn in consecutive weeks.

Also, like 2014, I think it's going to help that the games are in the "right" order. No letdown from LSU to A&M to Auburn because they were all huge. Think the same will apply to Florida. I'm sure some of the players want to beat Mullen, but they're probably not going to let beating a pretty mediocre florida team interfere with a much more hyped game the following week.

If I was going to be worried about a game get messed up because of team psychology/emotions/attitude, it'd be the LSU game after a bye week if we do go into it undefeated, or even A&M the next week. Both of those seem like potential letdown games if things are going well.

[ShotgunDawg]

I sure do get tired of hearing this. Mullen did a good job for us but there are certainly several areas for improvement. We've already seen improvement in one area with Moorhead's recruiting. We're seeing another example with the depth chart - Moorhead will play the best players.

I fully understand.

It's reasonable to ask though: if MSU has bad history in football, have been playing for over 100 years, and Mullen was the best coach they've had; how reasonable is it that they find an equal or better replacement with their next hire?

Now, as an MSU fan, I can rattle off numerous reasons why comparing the current MSU program to anything that happened prior to 1990 as a useless exercise as the two programs don't resemble each other in any way, however, that has to be proved on th field.

In MSU's history of football, I don't believe we ever made back to back good hires. From an outsider perspective, it would seem reasonable that MSU may not make a great hire.

[Maroonthirteen]

I'll wait till I see us against a good opponent before I get to excited.

Yeah, feels very similar to pre-season 2001.

JoMo was a good hire. We have a defense and running backs.

I?m not sure Fitz will be the runner he was. I highly doubt his passing accuracy has improved. I?m skeptical about our secondary.

[Jarius]

His accuracy doesn’t need to improve as much as people think. If our wide receivers will just catch passes they should catch his % will go up to a normal level. If they can create a little separation so he doesn’t have to stick it in their face mask every throw that would help too.

[Liverpooldawg]

Of course, you probably also aren?t wooly on our men?s basketball team even though this is more talent then we have ever had on one team in our history. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the 2018-2019 MSU sports season. There aren?t going to be many that will collectively be as great as the one coming up.

I've heard that before and no, a NIT appearance does not get me excited for basketball. There is great potential on both teams but all potential really means is you haven't done anything yet. I'll enjoy the season much better playing the expectations game when I have a reference point.

[Bubb Rubb]

I fully understand.

It's reasonable to ask though: if MSU has bad history in football, have been playing for over 100 years, and Mullen was the best coach they've had; how reasonable is it that they find an equal or better replacement with their next hire?

Now, as an MSU fan, I can rattle off numerous reasons why comparing the current MSU program to anything that happened prior to 1990 as a useless exercise as the two programs don't resemble each other in any way, however, that has to be proved on th field.

In MSU's history of football, I don't believe we ever made back to back good hires. From an outsider perspective, it would seem reasonable that MSU may not make a great hire.

It's just a different time and era. With the SEC money and upgraded facilities, State is a much more viable option for student athletes than it was before Mullen.

Mullen averaged just over 7 wins per season, while playing four cupcakes and Kentucky every year. He had a couple of spectacular seasons, and a bunch of mediocre to slightly better than average seasons. That's been done here before.

Like I said, Mullen was a good coach, and I understand the bowl streak is something that's never been done before. But it's important to remember the era. There are more bowl games than ever, and there are 12 game seasons now. In retrospect, outside of 2014, he really didn't do anything spectacular here. Mullen happened to be in the right place at the right time. Jackie accomplished more during the 97-2000 timeframe. It's my opinion that any competent coach can achieve 7/8 wins here every year with the occasional great year. The floor is higher, thanks in part to Mullen, but thanks in bigger part to the era, dynamics, SEC money, improved facilities, and extra cupcake on the schedule. Mullen couldn't raise the ceiling though. We will see if Moorhead can.

[msu15]

Yeah, feels very similar to pre-season 2001.



Absolutely not

[TrapGame]

Yeah, feels very similar to pre-season 2001.

JoMo was a good hire. We have a defense and running backs.

I?m not sure Fitz will be the runner he was. I highly doubt his passing accuracy has improved. I?m skeptical about our secondary.

Shoop's specialty is the secondary.

Fitz actually has receivers that can catch the ball. His numbers will improve.

Fitz doesn't have to be the runner he was for this offense.

You can't even remotely compare this team to 2001. Just stop.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Shoop's specialty is the secondary.

Fitz actually has receivers that can catch the ball. His numbers will improve.

Fitz doesn't have to be the runner he was for this offense.

You can't even remotely compare this team to 2001. Just stop.

You absolutely can compare this team to 2001. The similarities are closer than most want to admit. I believe it'll be different this time because we have loads more established depth this year than in 01. But the similarities are definitely there

[Johnson85]

It's just a different time and era. With the SEC money and upgraded facilities, State is a much more viable option for student athletes than it was before Mullen.

Mullen averaged just over 7 wins per season, while playing four cupcakes and Kentucky every year. He had a couple of spectacular seasons, and a bunch of mediocre to slightly better than average seasons. That's been done here before.

Like I said, Mullen was a good coach, and I understand the bowl streak is something that's never been done before. But it's important to remember the era. There are more bowl games than ever, and there are 12 game seasons now. In retrospect, outside of 2014, he really didn't do anything spectacular here. Mullen happened to be in the right place at the right time. Jackie accomplished more during the 97-2000 timeframe. It's my opinion that any competent coach can achieve 7/8 wins here every year with the occasional great year. The floor is higher, thanks in part to Mullen, but thanks in bigger part to the era, dynamics, SEC money, improved facilities, and extra cupcake on the schedule. Mullen couldn't raise the ceiling though. We will see if Moorhead can.

I mostly agree with this except I think you are underselling how good a coach you have to be to win 7-8 wins a year anywhere in the SEC West. Gus Malzahn is a good coach at a program willing to cheat as much as any team in the nation, and he won 8, 7, and 8 wins in the three seasons prior to last year, and that was with bowl games. Bert Beliema averaged 9.7 wins a year at wisconsin and topped out at 8 wins at Arknsas. Kevin Sumlin was the hot midmajor coach and won 8, 8, 8, and 7 games at A&M after Manziel left.

That said, being in the SECW and paying SEC West salaries does make everybody in the west competitive for the type of coaches that can do that, but it's still a crap shoot.

[Bubb Rubb]

I mostly agree with this except I think you are underselling how good a coach you have to be to win 7-8 wins a year anywhere in the SEC West. Gus Malzahn is a good coach at a program willing to cheat as much as any team in the nation, and he won 8, 7, and 8 wins in the three seasons prior to last year, and that was with bowl games. Bert Beliema averaged 9.7 wins a year at wisconsin and topped out at 8 wins at Arknsas. Kevin Sumlin was the hot midmajor coach and won 8, 8, 8, and 7 games at A&M after Manziel left.

That said, being in the SECW and paying SEC West salaries does make everybody in the west competitive for the type of coaches that can do that, but it's still a crap shoot.


I understand what you're saying, and we have to play the gauntlet every year. But we pretty much had 5 guaranteed wins on the schedule every year under Mullen. Then you only have to beat Arkansas or Ole Miss to get bowl eligible. Our 7-8 win seasons have coincided with Arkansas being crummy and A&M collapsing late season every year. Now LSU is down, which helps.

I'm not diminishing what Mullen did here, but I'm not going to make it bigger than it is, either. Malzahn is nothing special in my mind, but their permanent east opponent is better than ours, and they've always played a good OOC game, so their schedule has been tougher. Beliema couldn't recruit to Arkansas like he needed to and Sumlin's teams were soft up front. But State has an advantage over those places because of the schedule.

[TrapGame]

You absolutely can compare this team to 2001. The similarities are closer than most want to admit. I believe it'll be different this time because we have loads more established depth this year than in 01. But the similarities are definitely there

C'mon man that's absolutely asinine to think this team has comparable similarities to 2001. You want to compare teams then we are talking more 98-99. Jackie Wayne was getting harassed by ole miss private eyes and had lost control in the locker room. That team sure didn't have a QB that was a dark horse for the Heisman.

[StarkVegasSteve]

[QUOTE=TrapGame;978503]C'mon man that's absolutely asinine to think this team has comparable similarities to 2001. You want to compare teams then we are talking more 98-99. Jackie Wayne was getting harassed by ole miss private eyes and had lost control in the locker room. That team sure didn't have a QB that was a dark horse for the Heisman.[/QUOTE

QB who were expected to have big seasons- Madkin/Fitz
Returning Tandem RB's- Dontae & Dicenzo/ Williams & Hill
Two WRs with a ton of hype- Grindle & Jenkins/ Guidry & Whop
Experienced scary DL- Tommy Kelly & Dorsett Davis/ Simmons and Sweat
Improved and veteran secondary- Banks, Wright, Byrdsong/ Dantzler, McLaurin, Abram

Now I agree with you on most parts of it and I believe our D line is truly a nightmare for any team, but to say the similarities aren't there just isn't true.

[FISHDAWG]

I sure do get tired of hearing this. Mullen did a good job for us but there are certainly several areas for improvement. We've already seen improvement in one area with Moorhead's recruiting. We're seeing another example with the depth chart - Moorhead will play the best players. ? and maybe he won't have a fetish for fake punts

[Johnson85]

[QUOTE=TrapGame;978503]C'mon man that's absolutely asinine to think this team has comparable similarities to 2001. You want to compare teams then we are talking more 98-99. Jackie Wayne was getting harassed by ole miss private eyes and had lost control in the locker room. That team sure didn't have a QB that was a dark horse for the Heisman.[/QUOTE

QB who were expected to have big seasons- Madkin/Fitz This was also true in 2014, 2015 and to a lesser extent 2017. Also probably Relf's final year and Russell's first year as a full time starter?

Returning Tandem RB's- Dontae & Dicenzo/ Williams & Hill Also pretty regular occurrence.

Two WRs with a ton of hype- Grindle & Jenkins/ Guidry & Whop If Grindle and Jenkins were both unproven and necessary for at least one of them to step up in order to have a good offense, then this is a similarity that is not necessarily common.


Experienced scary DL- Tommy Kelly & Dorsett Davis/ Simmons and Sweat
Improved and veteran secondary- Banks, Wright, Byrdsong/ Dantzler, McLaurin, Abram

Now I agree with you on most parts of it and I believe our D line is truly a nightmare for any team, but to say the similarities aren't there just isn't true. Not many that make them any more similar than any other football team from our past.

[TrapGame]

[QUOTE=TrapGame;978503]C'mon man that's absolutely asinine to think this team has comparable similarities to 2001. You want to compare teams then we are talking more 98-99. Jackie Wayne was getting harassed by ole miss private eyes and had lost control in the locker room. That team sure didn't have a QB that was a dark horse for the Heisman.[/QUOTE

QB who were expected to have big seasons- Madkin/Fitz
Returning Tandem RB's- Dontae & Dicenzo/ Williams & Hill
Two WRs with a ton of hype- Grindle & Jenkins/ Guidry & Whop
Experienced scary DL- Tommy Kelly & Dorsett Davis/ Simmons and Sweat
Improved and veteran secondary- Banks, Wright, Byrdsong/ Dantzler, McLaurin, Abram

Now I agree with you on most parts of it and I believe our D line is truly a nightmare for any team, but to say the similarities aren't there just isn't true.

You left out JWS. He lost control of the program in 2001. That is the number one reason 2001 was such a bust. Moorhead and his coaching staff are light years ahead of where we were in 2001. My youngest daughter was born summer of 2001. She started her senior year of high school today.

[MarketingBully]

I've heard that before and no, a NIT appearance does not get me excited for basketball. There is great potential on both teams but all potential really means is you haven't done anything yet. I'll enjoy the season much better playing the expectations game when I have a reference point.

You truly are an insufferable fan looking as negatively as you can at a situation.

[Pit Bull]

One thing I thought Your former coach did well was slow the game down (vs Bammer) & limit plays/possessions.

I don?t know much about JoMo, is that style in his playbook?

Agree and I think it was a good move to shorten the game against BAMA. We hardly ever can match them straight up. I would do it again this year, but also agree we are not sure about JoMo's philosophy in those type games. He may want to go all out regardless. If we score on a lot of possessions, it could work....if it results in a lot of 3 and outs MSU suffers greatly.

[StarkVegasSteve]

[QUOTE=StarkVegasSteve;978508]

You left out JWS. He lost control of the program in 2001. That is the number one reason 2001 was such a bust. Moorhead and his coaching staff are light years ahead of where we were in 2001. My youngest daughter was born summer of 2001. She started her senior year of high school today.

I definitely agree that JWS had lost control of the program by that point. And I do believe that staff wise we are lightyears ahead of the 2001 JWS staff. My take was more from a player comparison standard. If you add in coaching and the things surrounding the program I believe you're correct that you can't compare 01 and 18 teams.

[QuadrupleOption]

It's just a different time and era. With the SEC money and upgraded facilities, State is a much more viable option for student athletes than it was before Mullen.

Mullen averaged just over 7 wins per season, while playing four cupcakes and Kentucky every year. He had a couple of spectacular seasons, and a bunch of mediocre to slightly better than average seasons. That's been done here before.

Like I said, Mullen was a good coach, and I understand the bowl streak is something that's never been done before. But it's important to remember the era. There are more bowl games than ever, and there are 12 game seasons now. In retrospect, outside of 2014, he really didn't do anything spectacular here. Mullen happened to be in the right place at the right time. Jackie accomplished more during the 97-2000 timeframe. It's my opinion that any competent coach can achieve 7/8 wins here every year with the occasional great year. The floor is higher, thanks in part to Mullen, but thanks in bigger part to the era, dynamics, SEC money, improved facilities, and extra cupcake on the schedule. Mullen couldn't raise the ceiling though. We will see if Moorhead can.

It's so easy to do that only Georgia, Alabama, LSU, and A&M have longer streaks than us in the SEC. It's an accomplishment. People acting like it isn't is a disservice to what Mullen did for our program.

[TrapGame]

[QUOTE=TrapGame;978529]

I definitely agree that JWS had lost control of the program by that point. And I do believe that staff wise we are lightyears ahead of the 2001 JWS staff. My take was more from a player comparison standard. If you add in coaching and the things surrounding the program I believe you're correct that you can't compare 01 and 18 teams.

That's cool. I'm looking at everything from coaches to players, off the field crap and the span of time.

I think Mullen built a good foundation here, in spite of all his faults. That foundation that held up that 2001 team was so cracked.

[Liverpooldawg]

You truly are an insufferable fan looking as negatively as you can at a situation.

Wrong. I'm not looking at it from any slant. I just want to look at things before I establish any expectations, good or bad. I can see plenty of reasons for optimism, but I also can see some unknowns. I'm looking at football kind of like I looked at another team I follow on another level many years ago. I knew some things were good, but I had some questions. We opened against a really good team, they were answered, then I formed my expectations. That's not being positive or negative.

[Todd4State]

Wrong. I'm not looking at it from any slant. I just want to look at things before I establish any expectations, good or bad. I can see plenty of reasons for optimism, but I also can see some unknowns. I'm looking at football kind of like I looked at another team I follow on another level many years ago. I knew some things were good, but I had some questions. We opened against a really good team, they were answered, then I formed my expectations. That's not being positive or negative.

You're hoping like hell that Joe isn't any better than your boy Dan because it makes your "Who can we hire to replace our greatest coach since Allyn McKeen?" narrative even more silly.

[Todd4State]

[QUOTE=TrapGame;978503]C'mon man that's absolutely asinine to think this team has comparable similarities to 2001. You want to compare teams then we are talking more 98-99. Jackie Wayne was getting harassed by ole miss private eyes and had lost control in the locker room. That team sure didn't have a QB that was a dark horse for the Heisman.[/QUOTE

QB who were expected to have big seasons- Madkin/Fitz
Returning Tandem RB's- Dontae & Dicenzo/ Williams & Hill
Two WRs with a ton of hype- Grindle & Jenkins/ Guidry & Whop
Experienced scary DL- Tommy Kelly & Dorsett Davis/ Simmons and Sweat
Improved and veteran secondary- Banks, Wright, Byrdsong/ Dantzler, McLaurin, Abram

Now I agree with you on most parts of it and I believe our D line is truly a nightmare for any team, but to say the similarities aren't there just isn't true.

Not really.

First of all we have been consistent at winning a lot more than the 2001 team. Yes, 1998-2000 were good football seasons but the truth of the matter is we won a LOT of close games in 1999 and in 2000 our defense gave up a lot of points- 30+ in I believe 5-6 games. We also had Jackie Sherrill who was prone to lose to teams he shouldn't and basically had a personal rule that he could only truly get his team up for three games. Which made us very prone to losing to LSU and Arkansas every year. And Troy. Jackie's teams also lacked discipline on the field and racked up tons of penalties.

You can't compare Madkin to Fitz. That's like comparing Joe Montana to Jim McMahon. Jackie was not a great developer of QB's and we struggled with that position consistently under Jackie the entire time he was here except when Sleepy was our QB. Fitz is a NFL draft pick. He was recruited and developed by Dan who is one of the best at developing QB's and Joe has a history of being great with QB's as well.

Get back to me when Kylin shows up at 280 or whatever Dontae Walker weighed. Based on Jackie's reaction at the Extravaganza in Jackson that year I'm pretty sure even he had no idea that Dontae had gained that much weight. Hill has lost weight and is more athletic than he was last year. Aeris is going to be solid so not an issue.

WR's- maybe but I don't remember a lot of Grindle hype and if there was he had earned it with his performance and Jenkins played in the NFL and was pretty good. I don't remember anyone saying that either one could leave for the NFL early potentially like Guidry and I can't really say that Whop is hyped that much when we're not sure if he will beat our Austin Williams or not.

DL- Did you really compare Tommy Kelly and Dorsett Davis to a guy that is a probable first round or second round pick and a guy that led the SEC in sacks last year? The narrative in 2001 was that our JUCO guys from Arizona Western were going to step in and be good. This year the narrative is we're returning just about everyone and we have guys that are third string that have started for us and performed well. Not the same at all. Much closer to 1999 that 2001 in terms of comparisons.

DB- Banks and Wright were in their first year with us in 2001. Again- not the same at all. Especially when you factor in that we are returning the SEC leader in INT's.


There are other things too- our offensive line is better, Joe has a history of using TE's better than Jackie, TJ Mawhinney vs Leo Lewis- one of these is not like the other, and we have a proven kicker unlike 2001.


My advice- stop being chicken little and enjoy the moment.

[Sienfield]

Maybe someone could ask Rosebowl. Isn't that why he got his nickname because he predicated state to play in the Rosebowl at the end of the 2001 season? At least some people had high expectations for the 2001 season.

[Liverpooldawg]

It's so easy to do that only Georgia, Alabama, LSU, and A&M have longer streaks than us in the SEC. It's an accomplishment. People acting like it isn't is a disservice to what Mullen did for our program.

Don't confuse them with facts.

[Liverpooldawg]

Maybe someone could ask Rosebowl. Isn't that why he got his nickname because he predicated state to play in the Rosebowl at the end of the 2001 season? At least some people had high expectations for the 2001 season.
I heard JWS himself say we were going to the Rose Bowl, in person. Rosebowl didn't pull that out of thin air.

[Liverpooldawg]

You're hoping like hell that Joe isn't any better than your boy Dan because it makes your "Who can we hire to replace our greatest coach since Allyn McKeen?" narrative even more silly.

That's totally asinine. Dan's gone. I just didn't want us to look stupid by firing the guy. Now I hope JoMo is the next irreplaceable coach. Do you get my drift now?

[Jarius]

Mullen is an above average coach, but in order to become our "best ever" head coach, he had to overtake a guy with a .500 overall record at MSU. He had the advantage of coming to MSU when we got a huge influx of SEC money into the program, which separated us from the 4 nonconference opponents that he beat every year. He did a good job of beating SEC teams that were down (he beat some teams that were not down, but mostly teams that were down) and he consistently fielded an above average team. I appreciate what he did, but he's not what some people think he is.

[Turfdawg67]

It's just a different time and era. With the SEC money and upgraded facilities, State is a much more viable option for student athletes than it was before Mullen.

Mullen averaged just over 7 wins per season, while playing four cupcakes and Kentucky every year. He had a couple of spectacular seasons, and a bunch of mediocre to slightly better than average seasons. That's been done here before.

Like I said, Mullen was a good coach, and I understand the bowl streak is something that's never been done before. But it's important to remember the era. There are more bowl games than ever, and there are 12 game seasons now. In retrospect, outside of 2014, he really didn't do anything spectacular here. Mullen happened to be in the right place at the right time. Jackie accomplished more during the 97-2000 timeframe. It's my opinion that any competent coach can achieve 7/8 wins here every year with the occasional great year. The floor is higher, thanks in part to Mullen, but thanks in bigger part to the era, dynamics, SEC money, improved facilities, and extra cupcake on the schedule. Mullen couldn't raise the ceiling though. We will see if Moorhead can.

I love how people throw in UK as a cupcake for DM's success here. Hell, in the years before Dan, UK owned the overall record against us. They were not an expected win before Dan.

[thf24]

I love how people throw in UK as a cupcake for DM's success here. Hell, in the years before Dan, UK owned the overall record against us. They were not an expected win before Dan.

Our record against them prior to Dan doesn't change the fact that they've been pretty bad in recent history outside of Rich Brooks' four years there.

[Liverpooldawg]

Our record against them prior to Dan doesn't change the fact that they've been pretty bad in recent history outside of Rich Brooks' four years there.

They have always been pretty bad for the most part.

[Jarius]

They have always been pretty bad for the most part.

That says more about our former coaches than it does Dan Mullen.

[Johnson85]

I love how people throw in UK as a cupcake for DM's success here. Hell, in the years before Dan, UK owned the overall record against us. They were not an expected win before Dan.

To be fair, they were explicitly listed separately from the 4 cupcakes. They are the best choice for a permanent east opponent outside of vanderbilt. They are generally not going to be good, but they also are not so behind MSU that any ole coach MSU picks up can beat them more than 65% of the time.

[Turfdawg67]

That says more about our former coaches than it does Dan Mullen.

Ok. Then it goes back to Mullen being the best shitty coach than all of our other shitty coaches. He beat the teams he was supposed to beat 90% of the time.

[Jarius]

Ok. Then it goes back to Mullen being the best shitty coach than all of our other shitty coaches. He beat the teams he was supposed to beat 90% of the time.

Yes, and he deserves credit for that. If we had a 100 million dollar budget for the past 100 years, we would not be praising him near as much because we would have had better facilities and hired better coaches long before he got here. Like I said, he came at the perfect time. And before you say it, I know our budget is still last in the conference, but we don’t lose kids to other programs because of facilities nor do we lose coaches due to money any more in any sport. There comes a point where more money has diminishing returns and college football in the SEC is starting to hit that point.

[Liverpooldawg]

Yes, and he deserves credit for that. If we had a 100 million dollar budget for the past 100 years, we would not be praising him near as much because we would have had better facilities and hired better coaches long before he got here. Like I said, he came at the perfect time. And before you say it, I know our budget is still last in the conference, but we don’t lose kids to other programs because of facilities nor do we lose coaches due to money any more in any sport. There comes a point where more money has diminishing returns and college football in the SEC is starting to hit that point.

Our standing money wise vs the rest of the SEC hasn't changed a bit. Nor have our facilities.

[Cooterpoot]

Mullen got an extra cream puff every year too. He was .500 vs our rival. Lost to S.AL. And is the only coach I can remember us having that never beat AL. He was a solid coach but nothing great. Talked more than he achieved. Gave up end of the season every year. Without 2014, we wouldn’t even care.

[Jarius]

Our standing money wise vs the rest of the SEC hasn't changed a bit. Nor have our facilities.

Maybe you should read my post again, slowly, and understand why that does not matter. When your budget gets into the hundreds of millions of dollars, everyone has nice shit and money is not an issue. When we had Sherrill’s budget, we had facilities that looked like something out of The Waterboy.

[Cooterpoot]

Dan Mullen won 10 more games over his 9 years than Sherrill. He had 9 extra regular season games and a bowl game with a losing record.

[Liverpooldawg]

Maybe you should read my post again, slowly, and understand why that does not matter. When your budget gets into the hundreds of millions of dollars, everyone has nice shit and money is not an issue. When we had Sherrill’s budget, we had facilities that looked like something out of The Waterboy.

But it does matter. The rest of the SEC's facilities are still, relativity speaking, about the same level above ours as they ever were. What I WILL give you is that ours are exponentially improved vs the non-Power 5 (I'm referring to YOU USM) and much improved relative to most of the non-SEC.

[Jarius]

But it does matter. The rest of the SEC's facilities are still, relativity speaking, about the same level above ours as they ever were. What I WILL give you is that ours are exponentially improved vs the non-Power 5 (I'm referring to YOU USM) and much improved relative to most of the non-SEC.

No they are not. When a recruit walks into our stadium or our facilities they do not ask why we don’t have the same things everyone else has. At a certain point, facilities just become nice. We have not lost a recruit due to facilities since the Seal complex was built. It doesn’t give us a leg up, but it doesn’t make us start out the recruiting process with our hands behind our back like every other coach had to do. Mullen was given every single facilities upgrade he wanted. We are not losing recruits because of facilities or because we have a stadium that looks like a high school venue any more.

[Liverpooldawg]

Mullen got an extra cream puff every year too. He was .500 vs our rival. Lost to S.AL. And is the only coach I can remember us having that never beat AL. He was a solid coach but nothing great. Talked more than he achieved. Gave up end of the season every year. Without 2014, we wouldn’t even care.

I swear some of y'all sound like that guy that just got dumped by a trophy wife with a bigger bank account than yours. Y'all are just looking for stuff to make it look better. Dan did a great job here, and he is no longer here. I'm more like, she is gone but it was damn good while it lasted, thank you mam! ...on to the next one.

Seriously it's the first time that most of us remember a football coach actually leaving us for another job on his own initiative. I'm in my 50's and my parents hadn't even MET the last time that happened. I don't think we have EVER have one do it that stayed as long as Mullen did. They have been few and far between in ANY sport. That my friends, tells you all you really need to know about how good a job Mullen did here, if you look at it realistically and unemotionally. It is an ENORMOUS step in the right direction for MSU Football.

[Liverpooldawg]

No they are not. When a recruit walks into our stadium or our facilities they do not ask why we don’t have the same things everyone else has. At a certain point, facilities just become nice. We have not lost a recruit due to facilities since the Seal complex was built. It doesn’t give us a leg up, but it doesn’t make us start out the recruiting process with our hands behind our back like every other coach had to do. Mullen was given every single facilities upgrade he wanted. We are not losing recruits because of facilities or because we have a stadium that looks like a high school venue any more.

Dude we DON'T have the same things most of the SEC has. Don't be a provincial.

[Jarius]

Mullen was a step in the right direction. I don’t think anyone denies that. He just isn’t a great coach. He’s pretty good, and had advantages no other state coach has ever had, like I just pointed out.

[Turfdawg67]

Yes, and he deserves credit for that. If we had a 100 million dollar budget for the past 100 years, we would not be praising him near as much because we would have had better facilities and hired better coaches long before he got here. Like I said, he came at the perfect time. And before you say it, I know our budget is still last in the conference, but we don?t lose kids to other programs because of facilities nor do we lose coaches due to money any more in any sport. There comes a point where more money has diminishing returns and college football in the SEC is starting to hit that point.

Agreed. I believe The Kang, until outside forces and his losing control of our team towards the end, would've put us easily in the upper echelon of the SEC... maybe sooner if he could've beat the downtrodden LSU teams of the '90s.

[Cooterpoot]

I swear some of y'all sound like that guy that just got dumped by a trophy wife with a bigger bank account than yours. Y'all are just looking for stuff to make it look better. Dan did a great job here, and he is no longer here. I'm more like, she is gone but it was damn good while it lasted, thank you mam! ...on to the next one.

Seriously it's the first time that most of us remember a football coach actually leaving us for another job on his own initiative. I'm in my 50's and my parents hadn't even MET the last time that happened. I don't think we have EVER have one do it that stayed as long as Mullen did. They have been few and far between in ANY sport. That my friends, tells you all you really need to know about how good a job Mullen did here, if you look at it realistically and unemotionally. It is an ENORMOUS step in the right direction for MSU Football.

Hev? That you?
He stayed because he couldn’t get a job til his buddy offered. He was TN’s 10th option.

[Jarius]

Dude we DON'T have the same things most of the SEC has. Don't be a provincial.

We have things close enough that recruits are no longer turning us down because of facilities. If you need proof, look at how much our recruiting improved while Mullen was here and now Moorhead as well.

[Turfdawg67]

Mullen was a step in the right direction. I don’t think anyone denies that. He just isn’t a great coach. He’s pretty good, and had advantages no other state coach has ever had, like I just pointed out.

When he was good, he was very good (see LSU last year). But when he was not focused, like 2-3 OM games, we would not look at all the same... with the same players.

[Liverpooldawg]

We have things close enough that recruits are no longer turning us down because of facilities. If you need proof, look at how much our recruiting improved while Mullen was here and now Moorhead as well.

And you know this how? Again, it's all relative. We are still about where we always were in the SEC when it comes to the things money buys. I will give you that USM isn't picking off guys because their facilities are close to ours anymore.

[Jarius]

I know this because our average recruiting ranking went up 9 spots under Mullen, which coincides with our facilities upgrades, and Moorhead is recruiting even better. Mullen is recruiting at the same level at Florida as he did here. He inherited a transition class last year at Florida that was loaded and it dropped to around 13 even after closing well. He’s not recruiting any better this year at Florida than he did at MSU.

It’s not all relative. When your competitors are buying Lambos and you are buying accords you have no chance. When your competition is buying lambos amd Ferraris and you are just buying lambos, you have a shot.

[Todd4State]

That's totally asinine. Dan's gone. I just didn't want us to look stupid by firing the guy. Now I hope JoMo is the next irreplaceable coach. Do you get my drift now?

I don't recall ever saying that we should fire Dan or anyone else. I do recall saying I don't care if he left and it would be the best thing for both MSU and Dan if he just left. And I'm VERY happy he did.

[Todd4State]

I know this because our average recruiting ranking went up 9 spots under Mullen, which coincides with our facilities upgrades, and Moorhead is recruiting even better. Mullen is recruiting at the same level at Florida as he did here. He inherited a transition class last year at Florida that was loaded and it dropped to around 13 even after closing well. He’s not recruiting any better this year at Florida than he did at MSU.

It’s not all relative. When your competitors are buying Lambos and you are buying accords you have no chance. When your competition is buying lambos amd Ferraris and you are just buying lambos, you have a shot.

You're absolutely killing it. Dan is what he is- average to above average. He was VERY fortunate to be at a school that has a relatively bad history and also has an extremely patient fan base in football. As I think he is about to find out.

[Liverpooldawg]

Hev? That you?
He stayed because he couldn’t get a job til his buddy offered. He was TN’s 10th option.

Nope. Perfect example of what I'm talking about.

[Liverpooldawg]

I know this because our average recruiting ranking went up 9 spots under Mullen, which coincides with our facilities upgrades, and Moorhead is recruiting even better. Mullen is recruiting at the same level at Florida as he did here. He inherited a transition class last year at Florida that was loaded and it dropped to around 13 even after closing well. He’s not recruiting any better this year at Florida than he did at MSU.

It’s not all relative. When your competitors are buying Lambos and you are buying accords you have no chance. When your competition is buying lambos amd Ferraris and you are just buying lambos, you have a shot.

Lol, another perfect example. We are still exactly where we always have been money wise in the SEC. you gave an imperfect analogy. The upper echelon of the SEC are dabbling in Fomula One. We are buying 911s off the lot. In the old days they were buying 911s and we were buying base RX-7s.

[Liverpooldawg]

You're absolutely killing it. Dan is what he is- average to above average. He was VERY fortunate to be at a school that has a relatively bad history and also has an extremely patient fan base in football. As I think he is about to find out.

Yep, he is. But he isn't killing what you and him think. Discard your emotions. Think rationally. I hope JoMo is reviled for the same reasons when HE leaves. That really WOULD be a huge step toward what we all want.

[BrunswickDawg]

But it does matter. The rest of the SEC's facilities are still, relativity speaking, about the same level above ours as they ever were. What I WILL give you is that ours are exponentially improved vs the non-Power 5 (I'm referring to YOU USM) and much improved relative to most of the non-SEC.
No, their facilities are not. Our facilities are above Vandy, OM, UF, KY, Arky and Mo at least. If UGA hasn't gotten their IPF, we would be on par with them. Some of them have larger stadiums, but larger is not better.

[Jarius]

Lol, another perfect example. We are still exactly where we always have been money wise in the SEC. you gave an imperfect analogy. The upper echelon of the SEC are dabbling in Fomula One. We are buying 911s off the lot. In the old days they were buying 911s and we were buying base RX-7s.

The upper echelon has always been in the top ten in recruiting. When they got more money they didn't move up any in recruiting because they didn't have anywhere to move up to because they were already at the top. When we got more money we moved up 9 spots on average in recruiting, because we really really really needed the money. The SEC welfare money helped us a lot more than it did the people above us. I don't know why this is not sinking in for you. More money for them doesn't mean much of anything, because they don't have anywhere else to spend their money. There is only so much money to spend on facilities until you are just buying useless crap that has no bearing on where a kid is going to school. Those upper echelon schools are at that point. We are not, and every dollar we go up in budget helps us get closer, because they have reached the point of diminishing returns and we have not.

[TrapGame]

OK, forget Rodgers. He went full retard last night over the question of who will have the most success Mullen or Moorhead. He chose Mullen mainly because it's easier to get to ATL in the East currently. He thinks Moorhead will have a losing record vs Auburn and Bama his entire tenure as head coach. Thus, Moorhead has no chance to get to ATL.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

OK, forget Rodgers. He went full retard last night over the question of who will have the most success Mullen or Moorhead. He chose Mullen mainly because it's easier to get to ATL in the East currently. He thinks Moorhead will have a losing record vs Auburn and Bama his entire tenure as head coach. Thus, Moorhead has no chance to get to ATL.

I see what you are saying but....

Your logic is a little flawed. Theologically, over a ten year period we could go to ATL 40% of the time if the wins against Bama and Auburn occur in the same year. Of course, this assumes that the path to ATL is blocked by only Bama and Auburn in any given year (which is generally the case).

[NWADAWG]

Mullen was a step in the right direction. I don?t think anyone denies that. He just isn?t a great coach. He?s pretty good, and had advantages no other state coach has ever had, like I just pointed out.

I agree. We needed Sherrill to show us we could win. We needed Croom to get the train back on the tracks. I think we kept Croom way too long but he did serve a purpose. and we needed Mullen to step us up to consistent winners. Mullen was good for MSU but had reached his ceiling. Now we need Moorhead to take another step up and get some separation from the SEC West middle of the pack. If we can get to a point where it's bama, us, gap, rest of west, then we will be in position to take the next step in competing for titles.

[TrapGame]

I see what you are saying but....

Your logic is a little flawed. Theologically, over a ten year period we could go to ATL 40% of the time if the wins against Bama and Auburn occur in the same year. Of course, this assumes that the path to ATL is blocked by only Bama and Auburn in any given year (which is generally the case).

Probably should elaborated a bit. Rodgers assumes Mullen will be consistently victorious over UGA and Kirby. And he assumes Mullen's Florida team is the only one in the East to get good enough to beat Florida. There's way too much assumption on Rodger's part that the East will always be "down" except for UGA and Florida duking it out every season for the top spot.