Brandon Walker on UGA

[BrunswickDawg]

https://twitter.com/BWalker_SEC/status/1023683655145861120.

Ok - what do y'all think of this? I think it is way off base and starts to sound like whining. This isn't an Ole Miss out of the blue Top 5 class situation. Brandon went on in the replies to make it sound like UGA all the sudden discovered RB's and the recruiting game.

Here is my bone of contention with this line of thinking.

First - UGA was one of the inventors of the recruiting game in and the big business of CFB in the 80s (they were one of the drivers in the lawsuit that opened up more TV exposure). I know from personal experience that UGA has always played the recruiting game - from them placing my grandfather at a JUCO in 1940; recruiting my uncle (a HS all-American LB) in the 60s; and recruiting my teammate in the early 90s (a HS All-American QB). They may not have the volume of Natty to go with it that they should, but it doesn't mean they haven't been a regular machine in recruiting.

Second - if there is any school in the SEC that is going to attract a stable of RBs - regardless of the depth chart - it is UGA. They are the RB U of the South - going all the way back to Sinkwich and Trippi. Look at this list - just post-Herschel of UGA RB's who have made the NFL - Lars Tate, Cleveland Gary (started at UGA and trans to Miami) Tim Worley, Rodney Hampton, Keith Henderson, Mack Strong, Frank Harvey, Garrison Hearst, Terrell Davis, Larry Bowie, Robert Edwards, Patrick Pass, Olandis Gary, Verron Haynes, Musa Smith, Kregg Lumpkin, Danny Ware, Knowshon Moreno, Keith Marshall, Todd Gurley, Nick Chubb, and Sony Michel.

That's 22 RB over 34 years. Basically, if you start or share a significant number of carries at UGA, you are almost guaranteed to go on to the NFL. I don't know of any other school that can make a claim that strong. If I were a RB - UGA would be in my top 5 automatically.

[msstate7]

Wow. Georgia landing 5-stars is not = to om landing 5-stars. Hell, they just played for a natty after winning the sec. How many times did ole hugh do that?

[ShotgunDawg]

Good post.

- You're correct that UGA has always played the game & recruited well. There is just something about what has happened lately that doesn't feel natural or right. Feels very much like Ole Miss's progression from Cutcliffe/Richt - Orgeron/Freeze. I think it's pretty clear why Richt was let go & it's because he wasn't willing to play the game at the level UGA boosters wanted.

- How much of UGA's RB success has to do with the caliber of players they are bringing in vs their level of development? Does this even matter?

- Thirdly, I'm rooting for UGA. We rarely play them but Don & Auburn are about to get ass whippings for the next decade. If UGA's rise shifts the typically even Auburn/UGA rivalry in favor of UGA, then that is awesome for us. Instead of Auburn going 8-4 - 10-2 each year, maybe they regress to being more of a 7-5 - 9-3 type program.

[ShotgunDawg]

Wow. Georgia landing 5-stars is not = to om landing 5-stars. Hell, they just played for a natty after winning the sec. How many times did ole hugh do that?

Agree

I just think we have to be careful in always giving blue bloods the benefit of the doubt. It's dangerous

[Bulldog1]

Kirby Smart is not the new Hugh Freeze, he is Miniature Nick Saban.
Georgia will dominate the East as long as Kirby is there.

[ScoobaDawg]

https://twitter.com/BWalker_SEC/status/1023683655145861120. (http://.)

Ok - what do y'all think of this? I think it is way off base and starts to sound like whining. This isn't an Ole Miss out of the blue Top 5 class situation. Brandon went on in the replies to make it sound like UGA all the sudden discovered RB's and the recruiting game.

Here is my bone of contention with this line of thinking.

First - UGA was one of the inventors of the recruiting game in and the big business of CFB in the 80s (they were one of the drivers in the lawsuit that opened up more TV exposure). I know from personal experience that UGA has always played the recruiting game - from them placing my grandfather at a JUCO in 1940; recruiting my uncle (a HS all-American LB) in the 60s; and recruiting my teammate in the early 90s (a HS All-American QB). They may not have the volume of Natty to go with it that they should, but it doesn't mean they haven't been a regular machine in recruiting.

Second - if there is any school in the SEC that is going to attract a stable of RBs - regardless of the depth chart - it is UGA. They are the RB U of the South - going all the way back to Sinkwich and Trippi. Look at this list - just post-Herschel of UGA RB's who have made the NFL - Lars Tate, Cleveland Gary (started at UGA and trans to Miami) Tim Worley, Rodney Hampton, Keith Henderson, Mack Strong, Frank Harvey, Garrison Hearst, Terrell Davis, Larry Bowie, Robert Edwards, Patrick Pass, Olandis Gary, Verron Haynes, Musa Smith, Kregg Lumpkin, Danny Ware, Knowshon Moreno, Keith Marshall, Todd Gurley, Nick Chubb, and Sony Michel.

That's 22 RB over 34 years. Basically, if you start or share a significant number of carries at UGA, you are almost guaranteed to go on to the NFL. I don't know of any other school that can make a claim that strong. If I were a RB - UGA would be in my top 5 automatically.

I completely agree with you... Put UGA's history with Kirby Smart... who was under in the Nick Saban recruiting machine for 13 of his 14 years as an assistant. No way do I think it points to blatant cheating...and just shows how much some of our people are looking through maroon glasses and crying that we don't get everyone we think we are.

My only question is how long until Smart beats Saban a couple years in a row and Saban decides to ride on out. Does Bama go after Smar or still Dabo?

[ScoobaDawg]

Good post.

- You're correct that UGA has always played the game & recruited well. There is just something about what has happened lately that doesn't feel natural or right. Feels very much like Ole Miss's progression from Cutcliffe/Richt - Orgeron/Freeze. I think it's pretty clear why Richt was let go & it's because he wasn't willing to play the game at the level UGA boosters wanted.



Richt was let go because he consistently had top level talent and didn't win the big championships. So what changed, the talents getting even better because UGA just played for a National championship...

[ShotgunDawg]

Richt was let go because he consistently had top level talent and didn't win the big championships. So what changed, the talents getting even better because UGA just played for a National championship...

He had top level talent but Bama still had more & Auburn was close.

UGA has taken it to another level

[smootness]

UGA is recruiting at an elite level because they are an elite recruiting school (they basically were under Richt as well) and have an elite recruiter. It's that simple.

[Cooterpoot]

1. Smart played at UGA and knows the recruiting grounds and what he's got to work with.
2. He's a good damn coach.
3. UGA is like LSU. They get who they want in GA. And they've got more to choose from than LSU.
4. Athens is a great place and easy to recruit to.
5. They should (SHOULD) be the top program in the SEC. They have no competition for instate talent and can pull from FL. Even AL can't say that.
6. Easy to win in the East.

They've been a sleeping giant for a long time.

[Dawg61]

I'm guessing Auburn, Bama, Miami, Florida State, Texas, Michigan, Ohio State, USC and possibly Ok State, Notre Dame and UCLA can compete with UGA on NFL RB history. Haven't looked it up though.

[smootness]

I completely agree with you... Put UGA's history with Kirby Smart... who was under in the Nick Saban recruiting machine for 13 of his 14 years as an assistant. No way do I think it points to blatant cheating...and just shows how much some of our people are looking through maroon glasses and crying that we don't get everyone we think we are.

My only question is how long until Smart beats Saban a couple years in a row and Saban decides to ride on out. Does Bama go after Smar or still Dabo?

They may go after Smart, but he isn't going anywhere.

[BrunswickDawg]

Good post.

- You're correct that UGA has always played the game & recruited well. There is just something about what has happened lately that doesn't feel natural or right. Feels very much like Ole Miss's progression from Cutcliffe/Richt - Orgeron/Freeze. I think it's pretty clear why Richt was let go & it's because he wasn't willing to play the game at the level UGA boosters wanted.

- How much of UGA's RB success has to do with the caliber of players they are bringing in vs their level of development? Does this even matter?

- Thirdly, I'm rooting for UGA. We rarely play them but Don & Auburn are about to get ass whippings for the next decade. If UGA's rise shifts the typically even Auburn/UGA rivalry in favor of UGA, then that is awesome for us. Instead of Auburn going 8-4 - 10-2 each year, maybe they regress to being more of a 7-5 - 9-3 type program.

I can verify that Richt played the recruiting game. Personally, I think Richt had just gone stale with the UGA fan base and they were ready for a change. UGA has huge Bama envy and always has. They were wanting to fire Dooley in the late 70s for the same reasons they wanted Richt gone. Dooley wasn't doing what Bryant was doing - therefore he needed to go. Didn't matter that the Bear was a once in a generation coach at the greatest football powerhouse and Dooley was arguably the best coach they had ever had. Same with Richt and Saban. Big question for me is will Kirby be able to get over that hump?

[confucius say]

UGA is recruiting at an elite level because they are an elite recruiting school (they basically were under Richt as well) and have an elite recruiter. It's that simple.

Uga has never recruited at this level. Ever. Smarts first three full cycles will result in the number 3 class (2017) and back to back number one classes (2018 and, barring an epic collapse, 2019). All of which began on the heels began of a 7-5 season in his first year with a brand new staff (sound familiar?).

Y'all are looking at the micro (uga has always been a good recruiter and signed great running backs so no big deal) and Walker is looking at the macro (uga has never recruited this well in its history and this began on the heels of a 7-5 season with a new and unproven staff).

Smart has take uga from the number 9 composite recruiter in the six years before him (2010-2015 cycles) to the number 1 recruiter. Freeze took Mississippi from the number 23 recruiter (2008-2011 cycles) to the number 11 recruiter (2013-2016 cycles).

[Cooterpoot]

There's very little difference in the top spot and the rest of the top 10. If UGA is cheating, AL & AU will be all over them and the NCAA will follow.

[ShotgunDawg]

Uga has never recruited at this level. Ever. Smarts first three full cycles will result in the number 3 class (2017) and back to back number one classes (2018 and, barring an epic collapse, 2019). All of which began on the heels began of a 7-5 season in his first year with a brand new staff (sound familiar?).

Y'all are looking at the micro (uga has always been a good recruiter and signed great running backs so no big deal) and Walker is looking at the macro (uga has never recruited this well in its history and this began on the heels of a 7-5 season with a new and unproven staff).

Smart has take uga from the number 9 composite recruiter in the six years before him (2010-2015 cycles) to the number 1 recruiter. Freeze took Mississippi from the number 23 recruiter (2008-2011 cycles) to the number 11 recruiter (2013-2016 cycles).

Yeah, it's kind of obvious

[confucius say]

Yeah, it's kind of obvious

And I think that is walkers point. It wasn't the result of a gradual grind of building relationships. It was a 7-5 unproven staff immediately becoming the best recruiting program in the country.

[msstate7]

And I think that is walkers point. It wasn't the result of a gradual grind of building relationships. It was a 7-5 unproven staff immediately becoming the best recruiting program in the country.

You don't feel that smart had prior relationships at bama to the recruits he signed that first year? Not like smart was at ark state, and all the sudden started recruiting blue chips... he's been recruiting blue chips for years now

[Brandon Walker]

It's not whining, because I started saying this publicly a few weeks ago, long before Emery committed to UGA.

For whatever reason, we have fans that want to excuse UGA and put them on a pedestal to excuse what's happening. Is UGA a better recruiting school historically than Ole Miss and therefore expected to sign better classes? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that UGA is absolutely changing the game right now in how they are acquiring talent. They are emptying the wallet. It's not just Emery. i took the part about Fields out. You're right. Shouldn't have posted that

I'm not guessing here. When Freeze started recruiting well at Ole Miss, their network upped the game and went all in, deciding to sign any 5-star they could with no regard for how it looked. I'm in Georgia. I've talked to some recruiting insiders in Athens. I asked why Fields would sign with UGA, and one flat out said "If the bag is big enough, kids don't care about the depth chart.

So yes UGA is a good school. Yes they are in a talent-rich state. But Kirby Smart isn't getting these guys because he works hard. Their boosters are changing the standard of how the recruiting game is played.

If you think it's whining, that's fine. But the standard of cheating is being changed in Athens, Georgia right now. And it has nothing to do with John Emery or Mississippi State or me getting upset.

[Pollodawg]

Yeah. He’s been hammering on this a bit lately. He also gets pissed when people disagree with him. He sounds like Hank Hill when you shit talk propane if you disagree with anything he says.

[Pollodawg]

Brandon Walker, Kylin is better than Aeries.





. Getcho popcorn ready.

[Bulldog1]

Georgia went from Top 4/5 in SEC recruiting before Smart, to Top 2 SEC recruiting since Smart has been at Georgia. Sorry, I can't compare that to Hugh Freeze.

[Cooterpoot]

Well, since everybody is cheating and pretty much getting away with it, when do we fire Bracky? I mean, if we can look around and say all these schools are cheating and we can see the NCAA didn't really touch OM, then I blame our administration for not playing the same game as the rest of the league.
Stop blaming the other schools for winning if you've got proof the others are cheating and getting away with it.

[smootness]

And I think that is walkers point. It wasn't the result of a gradual grind of building relationships. It was a 7-5 unproven staff immediately becoming the best recruiting program in the country.

UGA has always competed for and landed elite kids. Multiple in basically every class. They're just getting more now.

Ole Miss went from never competing for elite OOS recruits to landing multiple in the same class.

The two are not comparable.

[smootness]

It's not whining, because I started saying this publicly a few weeks ago, long before Emery committed to UGA.

For whatever reason, we have fans that want to excuse UGA and put them on a pedestal to excuse what's happening. Is UGA a better recruiting school historically than Ole Miss and therefore expected to sign better classes? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that UGA is absolutely changing the game right now in how they are acquiring talent. They are emptying the wallet. It's not just Emery. Look at 5-star QB Justin Fields last year, who could have gone anywhere in the country and started this year. Instead, he chose to go possibly ride the bench for 3 years at UGA. Emery just committed to a place that has a 5-star soph and the No. 1 and No. 3 back from the 2018 class.

I'm not guessing here. When Freeze started recruiting well at Ole Miss, their network upped the game and went all in, deciding to sign any 5-star they could with no regard for how it looked. I'm in Georgia. I've talked to some recruiting insiders in Athens. I asked why Fields would sign with UGA, and one flat out said "If the bag is big enough, kids don't care about the depth chart.

So yes UGA is a good school. Yes they are in a talent-rich state. But Kirby Smart isn't getting these guys because he works hard. Their boosters are changing the standard of how the recruiting game is played.

If you think it's whining, that's fine. But the standard of cheating is being changed in Athens, Georgia right now. And it has nothing to do with John Emery or Mississippi State or me getting upset.

I don't care who you know in Athens. I live down the road from Fields' HS and know several people who know him extremely well. The fact that you think UGA must have paid a kid from Cobb County because he chose them is laughable. Don't make claims you can't back up. He went there to compete. If he doesn't beat out Fromm im a year or two, he may leave. But he didn't go there with the idea of riding the bench for 3 years.

It was the least shocking thing ever when he committed to UGA. Heck, he was committed to Penn St. before that. I suppose they were cheating like mad since it was far more of a shock for him to potentially go there.

If kids cared only about the depth chart, they'd never go to big-time schools.

I'm not excusing UGA. It makes sense that they're pulling the kids they're pulling. It's crazy they're pulling this many and very rare but it isn't shocking or confusing.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Brandon and Confucius are right... Smart took UGA from "elite recruiter" to best "in the country" before proving anything on the field. It's not like Richt was a scrub recruiter either- he signed the #8 class in the country last year at Miami.

It isn't that UGA is getting top 3 classes so they must be cheating, it's that they're DOMINATING all the other blue bloods. They have more 5 starts committed than Bama, FSU, Texas, and Clemson have combined. So if Richt was a good recruiter, and most of the other blue bloods have good recruiters, why is it that Smart is blowing them away? The obvious answer is that they are cheating more.

"Bama and the the other blue bloods wouldn't stand for it!" you might think, but I ask, would the NCAA even want to nail a blue blood? They're too chicken to nail OM, they're probably too chicken to investigate UGA. Besides, you think Smart, his assistants, and players don't have dirt on every other blue blood? It's mutually assured destruction if Bama/Clemson/whoever starts calling for UGA to be investigated. The NCAA knows this, and so wouldn't open that can of worms. UGA boosters are making a calculated gamble

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Georgia went from Top 4/5 in SEC recruiting before Smart, to Top 2 SEC recruiting since Smart has been at Georgia. Sorry, I can't compare that to Hugh Freeze.

No, they went from top 4/5 in the SEC to top 2 in the country, with currently more 5 stars than plural blue bloods have combined

The red flag is not that they're recruiting among the best, it's that they're putting the best to shame. There's no way he's that much better of a recruiter than Dabo, Saban, etc. Meyer is the only one keeping up

[confucius say]

You don't feel that smart had prior relationships at bama to the recruits he signed that first year? Not like smart was at ark state, and all the sudden started recruiting blue chips... he's been recruiting blue chips for years now

The staffs rships are much more important than smarts. His visits are restricted bc he is a head coach.

[msstate7]

Of note... the state of Georgia has the most 5-stars (7 out of 34 20.6%). Of the 7 5-stars in Georgia, 4 of them are committed to OOS schools (auburn, Tennessee, Clemson, and Michigan). Georgia has 3. If Georgia was cheating at historical levels, no way they let 4 5-stars in their backyard leave. 5 5-stars isn't historical either... Ohio state did it in 2017

[msstate7]

The staffs rships are much more important than smarts. His visits are restricted bc he is a head coach.

How many bama coaches did he take?

[ShotgunDawg]

Of note... the state of Georgia has the most 5-stars (7 out of 34 20.6%). Of the 7 5-stars in Georgia, 4 of them are committed to OOS schools (auburn, Tennessee, Clemson, and Michigan). Georgia has 3. If Georgia was cheating at historical levels, no way they let 4 5-stars in their backyard leave. 5 5-stars isn't historical either... Ohio state did it in 2017

Do all those 5 Stars play different positions?

Jus curious if they had choose either/or?

[confucius say]

Georgia went from Top 4/5 in SEC recruiting before Smart, to Top 2 SEC recruiting since Smart has been at Georgia. Sorry, I can't compare that to Hugh Freeze.

Jumping the top eight blue bloods and going from 9 in the country to 1 in the country (smart) is harder than jumping MSU and USCe to go from 23 to 11 (freeze).

[Cooterpoot]

It's been a long time since we've had a quality conspiracy theory on here. I feel like it's finally here.

[msstate7]

Do all those 5 Stars play different positions?

Jus curious if they had choose either/or?

2 WR = both Georgia
1 OT = OOS
1 OLB = OOS
1 DE = OOS
1 DT = Georgia
1 CB = OOS

[confucius say]

UGA has always competed for and landed elite kids. Multiple in basically every class. They're just getting more now.

Ole Miss went from never competing for elite OOS recruits to landing multiple in the same class.

The two are not comparable.

Let's cut to the chase. I believe uga boosters are offering more $ and benefits to recruits than Mississippi boosters did under Freeze. Do you disagree?

[ShotgunDawg]

2 WR = both Georgia
1 OT = OOS
1 OLB = OOS
1 DE = OOS
1 DT = Georgia
1 CB = OOS

I'd have to look at what UGA has committed or the players they are targeting. It's possible that they have a committed guy or target that internally they evaluate higher

[confucius say]

How many bama coaches did he take?

1 - Mel Tucker, who had only been at Bama one season and had not coached in college since 2005 prior to his one season at Bama.

[TUSK]

I dunno if GA is "cheating" any worse than they have in the past, but I do know this:

UGA recruiting at a "historically high level" (while recruiting GA and FL) is not in the same frickin' galaxy as Ole Miss going from a Top 50 recruiter to Top 10 overnight...

Just friggin' stop it, BW...

[confucius say]

Of note... the state of Georgia has the most 5-stars (7 out of 34 20.6%). Of the 7 5-stars in Georgia, 4 of them are committed to OOS schools (auburn, Tennessee, Clemson, and Michigan). Georgia has 3. If Georgia was cheating at historical levels, no way they let 4 5-stars in their backyard leave. 5 5-stars isn't historical either... Ohio state did it in 2017

Ohio State was coming off four straight NY6 bowls. Smart instantly became the head of the best recruiting program in college football with no head coaching experience except for one 7-5 season. Uga is cheating it's ass off.

[ShotgunDawg]

I dunno if GA is "cheating" any worse than they have in the past, but I do know this:

UGA recruiting at a "historically high level" (while recruiting GA and FL) is not in the same frickin' galaxy as Ole Miss going from a Top 50 recruiter to Top 10 overnight...

Just friggin' stop it, BW...

Easier to hide for sure

[msbulldog]

I think some things were promised, Emery move too quick.

[confucius say]

I dunno if GA is "cheating" any worse than they have in the past, but I do know this:

UGA recruiting at a "historically high level" (while recruiting GA and FL) is not in the same frickin' galaxy as Ole Miss going from a Top 50 recruiter to Top 10 overnight...

Just friggin' stop it, BW...

Mississippi went from 23 to 11. Uga went from 9 to 1.

And don't get me wrong guys, smart is a great recruiter even without the cheating (so is Freeze for that matter). But Uga is cheating it's ass off.

[msstate7]

Georgia recruiting class ranks...
2014 = 8th
2015 = 6th
2016 = 6th
2017 = 3rd
2018 = 1st
2019 = 2nd so far

[NWADAWG]

I'm pretty confident that all competitive schools are cheating to some level. In the 75 on the interstate vs 105 on the interstate analogy, Smart has decided to throw a few formula 1 cars on the highway and see how fast they can actually go. He may crash and burn or he may set a new gumball rally record.

In the end, I think if you spit in the face of too many blue bloods, it will get you in trouble. Even if you are a blue blood yourself.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I don't care who you know in Athens. I live down the road from Fields' HS and know several people who know him extremely well. The fact that you think UGA must have paid a kid from Cobb County because he chose them is laughable. Don't make claims you can't back up.

Look I'm not saying you're wrong of that BW didn't make up what he said, I have no idea what either of you know. However, you're telling him not to make claims about Fields if he can't "back it up" with proof, all while you make claims about Fields without "backing it up". Nobody said top recruits are willing to compete, but you also can't deny that they want to play and other schools would get them on the field quicker.


It was the least shocking thing ever when he committed to UGA. Heck, he was committed to Penn St. before that. I suppose they were cheating like mad since it was far more of a shock for him to potentially go there.

At PSU he'd just have to wait 1 year for McSorely to leave then he'd have a 90% shot at being the starter for a very very good program. At UGA he'll wait 2 years behind Fromm and have far less of a chance keep his starting job if he gets an injury (Remember, Eason got passed up because of that, and Fields knows UGA will keep pulling in very good QBs in the classes behind him).



If kids cared only about the depth chart, they'd never go to big-time schools.

We've never said it's all the cared about, but if they want to play FB and get exposure of course they should want to go to a program that maximizes those odds. They also care about money and cars, which is why cheating works.


It's crazy they're pulling this many and very rare but it isn't shocking or confusing.

It isn't "very rare", it's literally NEVER been done before. They have 12 5* between last year and this one, which is more than any team has ever done in a 2 year period. They'll probably add more by signing day too.

Everyone cheats, go look at the number of Chargers at the Bama practice field parking lot or on Emery's twitter for proof. All I and others are saying is that UGA is probably handing out more than others. I don't know why it's so offensive to say one of the 50+ programs that cheat are cheating more than others... none of us have proof either way, it's just we have 2 options: 1) Kirby is the greatest recruiter ever, and dominates with normal levels of cheating, or 2) Kirby is a very good recruiter, AND UGA boosters ramped up the handouts to give him an edge. I don't know why some feel the need to say 2) is a crazy conspiracy, dozens of programs have done this over the years and there's nothing more moral about UGA boosters than OM or SMU or A&Ms

[BrunswickDawg]

It's not whining, because I started saying this publicly a few weeks ago, long before Emery committed to UGA.

For whatever reason, we have fans that want to excuse UGA and put them on a pedestal to excuse what's happening. Is UGA a better recruiting school historically than Ole Miss and therefore expected to sign better classes? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that UGA is absolutely changing the game right now in how they are acquiring talent. They are emptying the wallet. It's not just Emery. Look at 5-star QB Justin Fields last year, who could have gone anywhere in the country and started this year. Instead, he chose to go possibly ride the bench for 3 years at UGA. Emery just committed to a place that has a 5-star soph and the No. 1 and No. 3 back from the 2018 class.

I'm not guessing here. When Freeze started recruiting well at Ole Miss, their network upped the game and went all in, deciding to sign any 5-star they could with no regard for how it looked. I'm in Georgia. I've talked to some recruiting insiders in Athens. I asked why Fields would sign with UGA, and one flat out said "If the bag is big enough, kids don't care about the depth chart.

So yes UGA is a good school. Yes they are in a talent-rich state. But Kirby Smart isn't getting these guys because he works hard. Their boosters are changing the standard of how the recruiting game is played.

If you think it's whining, that's fine. But the standard of cheating is being changed in Athens, Georgia right now. And it has nothing to do with John Emery or Mississippi State or me getting upset.

And if you think Richt didn't use their network or that they haven't emptied the wallet in the past you don't know your history. When UGA sees potential to load up, they do it. Especially when they are going after either high profile in state kids or difference maker running back. Go back and look at how many of those RB's I listed were on teams with 2 or more other players on that list. That has been their MO for ages.

I'll give you another example. Dooley retires after '88 with a 9-3 record. Long time assistant Ray Goff takes over. Goff was regarded as a recruiting king under Dooley. Goff goes 6-6 in his first season in '89 - then proceeds to land what was believed to be the best signing class in the history of the school at that time - featuring Andre Hastings, Garrison Hearst, Frank Harvey, Charles Pledger (Nick Fitzgerald's uncle) & Damon Evans (future UGA AD). Goff proceeds to go 4-7 in '90, and signs what was touted at the time as an even better class the following year with Eric Zeier, Mike Fredenberg, & Kannon Parkman. Goff goes 9-3 in '91 and then lands a class with Terrell Davis (from California - with Hearst already on the roster), Randall Godfrey, and Brice Hunter. Now, Goff was a shitty coach. But they were still able to land classes with what were billed by the AJC at the time as absolute monster classes. The only difference now is that you have recruiting class rankings. Since 2000 UGA has finish outside the Top Ten 3 times. Most years they are 6th or higher. Georgia's network didn't have to up their game because it never dropped off. Kirby and his staff are just that much better in recruiting then Richt. Just like JoMo and his staff appear to be that much better than Mullen and the CC Boys.

And lets not act like UGA was coming out of some period of laughable performance or recruiting like Ole Miss did. Mark Richt won 74% of his games, won the East 5 times, the SEC twice (just missing a 3rd time) and left UGA with a 10-3 season and 15 straight bowl games.

[confucius say]

Georgia recruiting class ranks...
2014 = 8th
2015 = 6th
2016 = 6th
2017 = 3rd
2018 = 1st
2019 = 2nd so far

Why'd you stop at 2014? Ha.

Uga was the 9 composite recruiter pre smart and 1 with Smart. And 2019 is only number 2 right now bc of the number of recruits. Uga per player ranking is blowing everybody out of the water by nearly two whole points.

[smootness]

Let's cut to the chase. I believe uga boosters are offering more $ and benefits to recruits than Mississippi boosters did under Freeze. Do you disagree?

Absolutely I disagree.

People are discounting the natural excitement that comes with a new hire and immediate success (and yes, he went 7-5 his first year but so did Saban at Bama; then there was quick and incredible transformation the next year...like Saban). They won't continue to recruit quite at this level once some of that excitement and newness wears off.

Another aspect - Richt did not often oversign and would routinely sign a less-than-full class. Usually when they dipped closer to the bottom of the top 10, it was because they signed 19, 20, 21 kids.

Georgia is the hot name in college football right now because of the excitement Smart's brought and the success they had on the field last year. This happens all the time. Somebody has to jump up to the top. It was USC, then it was Florida, then it was Bama. Then Clemson. Right now it's UGA.

[Dawg2003]

They all cheat on some level. Even us I'm sure. To what degree, we'll never know. It's also plausible that kids want to play at the blue blood schools without getting paid.

[smootness]

Why'd you stop at 2014? Ha.

Uga was the 9 composite recruiter pre smart and 1 with Smart. And 2019 is only number 2 right now bc of the number of recruits. Uga per player ranking is blowing everybody out of the water by nearly two whole points.

2013 - 12th
2012 - 9th
2011 - 7th
2010 - 11th
2009 - 4th
2008 - 7th
2007 - 8th
2006 - 3rd

I mean, it doesn't matter how far you go back.

[confucius say]

Absolutely I disagree.

People are discounting the natural excitement that comes with a new hire and immediate success (and yes, he went 7-5 his first year but so did Saban at Bama; then there was quick and incredible transformation the next year...like Saban). They won't continue to recruit quite at this level once some of that excitement and newness wears off.

Another aspect - Richt did not often oversign and would routinely sign a less-than-full class. Usually when they dipped closer to the bottom of the top 10, it was because they signed 19, 20, 21 kids.

Georgia is the hot name in college football right now because of the excitement Smart's brought and the success they had on the field last year. This happens all the time. Somebody has to jump up to the top. It was USC, then it was Florida, then it was Bama. Then Clemson. Right now it's UGA.

Thanks for answering. Good discussion.

[smootness]

Jumping the top eight blue bloods and going from 9 in the country to 1 in the country (smart) is harder than jumping MSU and USCe to go from 23 to 11 (freeze).

In 2016 (Richt's last year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 10 4-stars. 3 of those 13 were HS kids from OOS.
In 2017 (Smart's first year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 16 4-stars. 4 of those 19 were HS kids from OOS (one from AL).
In 2018, UGA signed 7 5-stars and 14 4-stars. 8 of those 21 were HS kids from OOS.

In 2011 (Nutt's last full class), OM signed 5 4-stars. 0 of them were HS kids from OOS.
In 2012 (Nutt's last class with a little Freeze), OM signed 3 4-stars. 1 of the 3 was a HS kid from OOS.
In 2013, OM signed 4 5-stars and 8 4-stars. 8 of the 12, including the 3 who were #1 at their position in the country, were HS kids from OOS.

I'll let you determine which of those is more eyebrow-raising.

Smart has upped the recruiting quite a bit in-state, and he's upped it a bit out-of-state. That's what happens when you have a great recruiter in a great situation. Freeze upped OM's recruiting 10-fold and did it primarily out-of-state with absolutely top of the class talent.

[Bulldog1]

Georgia's new locker room
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjOYgrBU0AEmb2f?format=jpg&name=large

Georgia's new indoor practice facility
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/3/24/iaf17-new-01.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/3/24/iaf17-new-02.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/3/24/iaf17-new-05.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/3/24/iaf17-new-09.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/3/24/iaf17-new-10.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/3/24/iaf17-new-11.jpg

Georgia's west end zone project
http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/uploads/main/wep-7-1180x660@2x.jpg
http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/uploads/main/wep-2-1180x660.jpg
http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/uploads/main/wep-1-1180x660.jpg
http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/uploads/main/wep-6-1180x660.jpg

[smootness]

Look I'm not saying you're wrong of that BW didn't make up what he said, I have no idea what either of you know. However, you're telling him not to make claims about Fields if he can't "back it up" with proof, all while you make claims about Fields without "backing it up". Nobody said top recruits are willing to compete, but you also can't deny that they want to play and other schools would get them on the field quicker.



At PSU he'd just have to wait 1 year for McSorely to leave then he'd have a 90% shot at being the starter for a very very good program. At UGA he'll wait 2 years behind Fromm and have far less of a chance keep his starting job if he gets an injury (Remember, Eason got passed up because of that, and Fields knows UGA will keep pulling in very good QBs in the classes behind him).




We've never said it's all the cared about, but if they want to play FB and get exposure of course they should want to go to a program that maximizes those odds. They also care about money and cars, which is why cheating works.



It isn't "very rare", it's literally NEVER been done before. They have 12 5* between last year and this one, which is more than any team has ever done in a 2 year period. They'll probably add more by signing day too.

Everyone cheats, go look at the number of Chargers at the Bama practice field parking lot or on Emery's twitter for proof. All I and others are saying is that UGA is probably handing out more than others. I don't know why it's so offensive to say one of the 50+ programs that cheat are cheating more than others... none of us have proof either way, it's just we have 2 options: 1) Kirby is the greatest recruiter ever, and dominates with normal levels of cheating, or 2) Kirby is a very good recruiter, AND UGA boosters ramped up the handouts to give him an edge. I don't know why some feel the need to say 2) is a crazy conspiracy, dozens of programs have done this over the years and there's nothing more moral about UGA boosters than OM or SMU or A&Ms

I shouldn't have said not to 'make claims.' I should have said, don't make accusations. I'm not accusing any kid of taking money. He is.

If everyone cheats, then everyone is on an even playing field. It's absurd to think that the only answer for UGA jumping to the top is cheating, and it's lazy. There are good explanations for why they would be recruiting better now than they ever have. USC now doesn't recruit at anything close to the level they did 15-20 years ago. Florida hasn't recruited at near the level they used to for the last few years. Clemson now recruits far better than they ever have. Do you honestly believe the only answer for these changes is that schools just arbitrarily decide when to scale up and scale back their cheating?

[confucius say]

In 2016 (Richt's last year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 10 4-stars. 3 of those 13 were HS kids from OOS.
In 2017 (Smart's first year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 16 4-stars. 4 of those 19 were HS kids from OOS (one from AL).
In 2018, UGA signed 7 5-stars and 14 4-stars. 8 of those 21 were HS kids from OOS.

In 2011 (Nutt's last full class), OM signed 5 4-stars. 0 of them were HS kids from OOS.
In 2012 (Nutt's last class with a little Freeze), OM signed 3 4-stars. 1 of the 3 was a HS kid from OOS.
In 2013, OM signed 4 5-stars and 8 4-stars. 8 of the 12, including the 3 who were #1 at their position in the country, were HS kids from OOS.

I'll let you determine which of those is more eyebrow-raising.

Smart has upped the recruiting quite a bit in-state, and he's upped it a bit out-of-state. That's what happens when you have a great recruiter in a great situation. Freeze upped OM's recruiting 10-fold and did it primarily out-of-state with absolutely top of the class talent.

1. Uga 2016 class was a lot of smart, not all richt.

2. Regardless, the numbers don't support your point. You can cherry pick 5 stars all day, but the entire picture shows that smart has taken Uga from 9 to 1 jumping every blue blood in football while Freeze took OM from 23 to 11. The former is much harder to do and more eyebrow raising.

[TUSK]

In 2016 (Richt's last year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 10 4-stars. 3 of those 13 were HS kids from OOS.
In 2017 (Smart's first year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 16 4-stars. 4 of those 19 were HS kids from OOS (one from AL).
In 2018, UGA signed 7 5-stars and 14 4-stars. 8 of those 21 were HS kids from OOS.

In 2011 (Nutt's last full class), OM signed 5 4-stars. 0 of them were HS kids from OOS.
In 2012 (Nutt's last class with a little Freeze), OM signed 3 4-stars. 1 of the 3 was a HS kid from OOS.
In 2013, OM signed 4 5-stars and 8 4-stars. 8 of the 12, including the 3 who were #1 at their position in the country, were HS kids from OOS.

I'll let you determine which of those is more eyebrow-raising.

Smart has upped the recruiting quite a bit in-state, and he's upped it a bit out-of-state. That's what happens when you have a great recruiter in a great situation. Freeze upped OM's recruiting 10-fold and did it primarily out-of-state with absolutely top of the class talent.

Thanks for doin' that for me, Smoot... We are comparing "apples" to "mailboxes"...

[confucius say]

I shouldn't have said not to 'make claims.' I should have said, don't make accusations. I'm not accusing any kid of taking money. He is.

If everyone cheats, then everyone is on an even playing field. It's absurd to think that the only answer for UGA jumping to the top is cheating, and it's lazy. There are good explanations for why they would be recruiting better now than they ever have. USC now doesn't recruit at anything close to the level they did 15-20 years ago. Florida hasn't recruited at near the level they used to for the last few years. Clemson now recruits far better than they ever have. Do you honestly believe the only answer for these changes is that schools just arbitrarily decide when to scale up and scale back their cheating?

Smart is a great recruiter, no doubt. Just like Freeze was/is.

[smootness]

1. Uga 2016 class was a lot of smart, not all richt.

2. Regardless, the numbers don't support your point. You can cherry pick 5 stars all day, but the entire picture shows that smart has taken Uga from 9 to 1 jumping every blue blood in football while Freeze took OM from 23 to 11. The former is much harder to do and more eyebrow raising.

1. That's a fair point, though a large chunk of those top guys had committed to Richt. But take 2015 then: 2 5-stars, 11 4-stars, 4 of the 13 HS kids from OOS. So more of the same. UGA's recruiting has always been largely in-state with a sprinkling of OOS. The amount of OOS has increased slightly under Smart but he's also just improved in-state. That's not usually the sign of someone just throwing money everywhere all the sudden. Again, Brandon's example was a kid from Cobb County, GA. It is the least shocking thing ever that Fields is at UGA.

2. In 2018, Kirby Smart - apparently throwing out more money than even Hugh Freeze - pulled 3 OOS 5-stars, only one of whom was #1 at his position; the 3 others who were #1? GA kids. In 2017, Smart pulled 2 non-GA 5-stars, neither of which was #1 at their position. For 2019, Smart has 2 OOS 5-stars committed, neither of whom is #1 at his position.

In 2013, Hugh Freeze pulled 3 5-stars from OOS, all of whom were #1 at their position.

Again, I'll let reasonable minds be the judge of which is crazier and harder to do.

[gravedigger]

Well, since everybody is cheating and pretty much getting away with it, when do we fire Bracky? I mean, if we can look around and say all these schools are cheating and we can see the NCAA didn't really touch OM, then I blame our administration for not playing the same game as the rest of the league.
Stop blaming the other schools for winning if you've got proof the others are cheating and getting away with it.

Because the man who hires the athletics director is.....shall we say adverse.....to scandal. Brackey does EXACTLY what he expects. He can live with the same ole same ole if that's what it takes to keep our schools name as clean as possible. He will not have the circus that OM just went through or the one we almost went through around the time of Redmond. He believes the University, for better or worse, is bigger than the athletics department. We can disagree with that line of thinking or not. But that is who he is and what we will deal with. Coaches, players and AD's that put MSU in salacious headlines will be shown the door.

[Cooterpoot]

http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/uploads/main/wep-6-1180x660.jpg

Is that a ninja in a GA hat?

[gravedigger]

Well, since everybody is cheating and pretty much getting away with it, when do we fire Bracky? I mean, if we can look around and say all these schools are cheating and we can see the NCAA didn't really touch OM, then I blame our administration for not playing the same game as the rest of the league.
Stop blaming the other schools for winning if you've got proof the others are cheating and getting away with it.

Because the man who hires the athletics director is.....shall we say adverse.....to scandal. Brackey does EXACTLY what he expects. He can live with the same ole same ole if that's what it takes to keep our schools name as clean as possible. He will not have the circus that OM just went through or the one we almost went through around the time of Redmond. He believes the University, for better or worse, is bigger than the athletics department. We can disagree with that line of thinking or not. But that is who he is and what we will deal with. Coaches, players and AD's that put MSU in salacious headlines will be shown the door.

[smootness]

Because the man who hires the athletics director is.....shall we say adverse.....to scandal. Brackey does EXACTLY what he expects. He can live with the same ole same ole if that's what it takes to keep our schools name as clean as possible. He will not have the circus that OM just went through or the one we almost went through around the time of Redmond. He believes the University, for better or worse, is bigger than the athletics department. We can disagree with that line of thinking or not. But that is who he is and what we will deal with. Coaches, players and AD's that put MSU in salacious headlines will be shown the door.

The university is obviously bigger than the AD.

[Cooterpoot]

Because the man who hires the athletics director is.....shall we say adverse.....to scandal. Brackey does EXACTLY what he expects. He can live with the same ole same ole if that's what it takes to keep our schools name as clean as possible. He will not have the circus that OM just went through or the one we almost went through around the time of Redmond. He believes the University, for better or worse, is bigger than the athletics department. We can disagree with that line of thinking or not. But that is who he is and what we will deal with. Coaches, players and AD's that put MSU in salacious headlines will be shown the door.

Although my original post was more tongue in cheek than serious, based on our academic standing, I'm not sure this is true. So, if our academic standing and athletics lag behind these schools, what's good about all this?

[sonofozarka]

If everyone cheats, then everyone is on an even playing field. It's absurd to think that the only answer for UGA jumping to the top is cheating, and it's lazy. There are good explanations for why they would be recruiting better now than they ever have. USC now doesn't recruit at anything close to the level they did 15-20 years ago. Florida hasn't recruited at near the level they used to for the last few years. Clemson now recruits far better than they ever have. Do you honestly believe the only answer for these changes is that schools just arbitrarily decide when to scale up and scale back their cheating?

Completely agree, it's so lame when someone starts recruiting better everyone jumps to the "cheating" conclusion when they're just speculating and have no idea what they're talking about or have any details whatsoever. It's just a childish knee jerk accusation with nothing behind it

UF recruited great under Urban, not as much since. Think the coach might have something to do with that? Mike Shula or Franchione or whoever else Bama has had certainly didn't recruit on the level Saban is.

Smart is basically Saban junior with a great product and a better talent base to recruit from. And basically there is no such thing as cheating since the NCAA obviously isn't interested in exposing or penalizing schools for it.

To say "school A is cheating more than they used to and is now cheating MORE than school B" is just a retarded childish argument based in nothing but message board rumor

[Ari Gold]

I have no idea what Brandon said was the comparison in the article since I didnt read it
But UGA has been recruiting in the top 10 every year for the last 10 years .
And very few are the scum bag POS that Freeze was.

[Todd4State]

One thing that I think is also helping Georgia is Florida having the Country Club and then you have Tennessee and Florida State that were both down last year.

[dawgday166]

Of note... the state of Georgia has the most 5-stars (7 out of 34 20.6%). Of the 7 5-stars in Georgia, 4 of them are committed to OOS schools (auburn, Tennessee, Clemson, and Michigan). Georgia has 3. If Georgia was cheating at historical levels, no way they let 4 5-stars in their backyard leave. 5 5-stars isn't historical either... Ohio state did it in 2017

I was going to say something similar. Ga has more talent than just about any state other the FL, TX, CA, LA maybe. And there is only 1 Power 5 school in the state and they for the most part own it when they want to. Ga & LSU .. lot of talent and only 1 power 5 school in state.

Not saying Ga ain't cheatin, but so is Bama. Kirby learned from the master. When Saban took over for Shula, Bama vaulted from about 10 or so to the top too, blowing everyone else away in the process. No one said he was cheatin.

[dawgs]

Yeah, nothing really surprising with uga at all. Kirby is finally the Saban clone everyone has hoped to find hiring Saban assistants all these years. Also, Athens is the best college town in the country. Oxford is an average-ish college town with an overinflated sense of superiority.