What Level Of Winning Does MSU Need to Achieve To Breakthrough in Recruiting?

[ShotgunDawg]

As we see the blue bloods (Bama, Auburn, UGA, FSU, & LSU), regardless of their depth chart, stack ridiculous classes after ridiculous classes on top of each other with kids that are choosing to compete within a stacked depth chart versus potentially attending MSU where the depth chart is potentially thinner & the schedule is the same, what is the expectation of winning that MSU must achieve to breakthrough as a consistent top 15 recruiter?

At this point, MSU has gone to 8 straight bowl games, has been to the NY6, & produced exceptional NFL players. I'm not under the illusion that MSU can out recruit the blue bloods, but it would seem that there is a level at which we can win that could at very least allow us to be a legitimate option of landing high 4 & 5 star players that don't want to enter the competition of a stacked depth chart at a blue blood. Outside of a few in-state players that we have connections & grew MSU fans, we've struggled to sign those types of players.

So here are my questions:

1. At what point would you think we've won enough that the expectation of top 15 recruiting should be expected?

2. Are our recruiting issues due to not winning enough or regional biases &/or a "commitment quotient" by the blue bloods that makes the barriers of entry into their recruiting world something that we can't break into? Is recruiting an A-B conversation & we can C our way out?

3. Are we unable to break into the blue blood recruiting world due to them getting to play by different rules than us?

[Outsider]

None of this matters. The above mentioned teams are allowed to outright cheat and buy players (Cam Newton, Alabama player's cars, etc.) 5* athletes don't go to teams to sit on a bench for two years but that's exactly what is happening at Alabama. So, winning is not the answer. There are haves and have nots. I do not think this will ever change.

[ShotgunDawg]

None of this matters. The above mentioned teams are allowed to outright cheat and buy players (Cam Newton, Alabama player's cars, etc.) 5* athletes don't go to teams to sit on a bench for two years but that's exactly what is happening at Alabama. So, winning is not the answer. There are haves and have nots. I do not think this will ever change.

This is a solid opinion that I am beginning to lean towards as well.

I want to feel like we are closing the gap, but I'm not so sure we are.

[DogsofAnarchy]

As we see the blue bloods (Bama, Auburn, UGA, FSU, & LSU), regardless of their depth chart, stack ridiculous classes after ridiculous classes on top of each other with kids that are choosing to compete within a stacked depth chart versus potentially attending MSU where the depth chart is potentially thinner & the schedule is the same, what is the expectation of winning that MSU must achieve to breakthrough as a consistent top 15 recruiter?

At this point, MSU has gone to 8 straight bowl games, has been to the NY6, & produced exceptional NFL players. I'm not under the illusion that MSU can out recruit the blue bloods, but it would seem that there is a level at which we can win that could at very least allow us to be a legitimate option of landing high 4 & 5 star players that don't want to enter the competition of a stacked depth chart at a blue blood. Outside of a few in-state players that we have connections & grew MSU fans, we've struggled to sign those types of players.

So here are my questions:

1. At what point would you think we've won enough that the expectation of top 15 recruiting should be expected?

2. Are our recruiting issues due to not winning enough or regional biases &/or a "commitment quotient" by the blue bloods that makes the barriers of entry into their recruiting world something that we can't break into? Is recruiting an A-B conversation & we can C our way out?

3. Are we unable to break into the blue blood recruiting world due to them getting to play by different rules than us?


1. We have won enough now and we are recruiting fine. Continue to win and we will continue to recruit better players.

2. I dont know what “Recruiting issues” you’re talking about. It’s not like we have finished outside the top 25 or 30 much. The top 5 teams are all pretty even, then the next 30 are all pretty even. It comes down to coaching.

3. Yes. The “Blue Bloods”as you call them cheat like hell. You see what happened to Ole Miss when their attempt to “break in” to the recruiting elite was check mated.

Bottom line: You’re vastly over analyzing recruiting. Get this in your head....If a guy commits to MSU and he is a 3 Star...he stays a 3 Star.....If a 3 Star commits to the “Blue Bloods”, he is soon a 4 Star. That’s a damn fact. Coaching is more important and winning cures your recruiting. Add a little marketing by the University to really pump some of our players and recruiting will be fine.

[Jack Lambert]

If we can sign 8 t 10 four stars every year and not any less then 3, we will be good.

[ShotgunDawg]

1. We have won enough now and we are recruiting fine. Continue to win and we will continue to recruit better players.

2. I dont know what “Recruiting issues” you’re talking about. It’s not like we have finished outside the top 25 or 30 much. The top 5 teams are all pretty even, then the next 30 are all pretty even. It comes down to coaching.

3. Yes. The “Blue Bloods”as you call them cheat like hell. You see what happened to Ole Miss when their attempt to “break in” to the recruiting elite was check mated.

Bottom line: You’re vastly over analyzing recruiting. Get this in your head....If a guy commits to MSU and he is a 3 Star...he stays a 3 Star.....If a 3 Star commits to the “Blue Bloods”, he is soon a 4 Star. That’s a damn fact. Coaching is more important and winning cures your recruiting. Add a little marketing by the University to really pump some of our players and recruiting will be fine.

I prefaced everything with "top 15 recruiter". I defined the level of recruiting I was speaking of.

Finishing in the top 25-30 is not the discussion here.

[Rayburn8]

State wins 10 games this year they have a great shot at Dean and that will go a long way in recruiting. This season is huge for so many reasons.

[Outsider]

Do you understand just how ridiculous it is that Alabama has had so many #1 recruiting classes? They had #1 classes in 2008 & 2009, 2011-2014, and 2016 & 2017. So, in the past 10 years they have only had 2 years that they were not hauling in the undisputed #1 class. One of those years, 2014, they had the #2 class. It's not only coaching winning all of those games. It's hauling in the best athletes in the country that is causing them to win all of those games. It's simply not a level playing field. What should happen is that this should be suspicious, along with the players always driving new cars. They need to put an investigator in Tuscaloosa for 5 years and just see what they find. But that will never happen.

[calidawg]

As we see the blue bloods (Bama, Auburn, UGA, FSU, & LSU), regardless of their depth chart, stack ridiculous classes after ridiculous classes on top of each other with kids that are choosing to compete within a stacked depth chart versus potentially attending MSU where the depth chart is potentially thinner & the schedule is the same, what is the expectation of winning that MSU must achieve to breakthrough as a consistent top 15 recruiter?

At this point, MSU has gone to 8 straight bowl games, has been to the NY6, & produced exceptional NFL players. I'm not under the illusion that MSU can out recruit the blue bloods, but it would seem that there is a level at which we can win that could at very least allow us to be a legitimate option of landing high 4 & 5 star players that don't want to enter the competition of a stacked depth chart at a blue blood. Outside of a few in-state players that we have connections & grew MSU fans, we've struggled to sign those types of players.

So here are my questions:

1. At what point would you think we've won enough that the expectation of top 15 recruiting should be expected?

2. Are our recruiting issues due to not winning enough or regional biases &/or a "commitment quotient" by the blue bloods that makes the barriers of entry into their recruiting world something that we can't break into? Is recruiting an A-B conversation & we can C our way out?

3. Are we unable to break into the blue blood recruiting world due to them getting to play by different rules than us?


You're equating recruiting success too much towards winning. We have nothing to sell to any elite offensive skill players because we have 0 in the NFL. We recruit at a very high level on the D-Line because that is an easy sell for us (plus there is a surplus of d-line talent in MS). O-Line talent is scarce in MS to begin with. Only reason we are in it with Emory was the Saquon Barkley connection with new coaches, but as a program we don't put RB's in positions to succeed in NFL (Boobie was a career special teams player). If you look at where we lack elite talent it's where we don't put players in the league. Exception is CB. We've done a terrible job of recruiting elite CB's and we have had some proven recent success there.

[ShotgunDawg]

You're equating recruiting success too much towards winning. We have nothing to sell to any elite offensive skill players because we have 0 in the NFL. We recruit at a very high level on the D-Line because that is an easy sell for us (plus there is a surplus of d-line talent in MS). O-Line talent is scarce in MS to begin with. Only reason we are in it with Emory was the Saquon Barkley connection with new coaches, but as a program we don't put RB's in positions to succeed in NFL (Boobie was a career special teams player). If you look at where we lack elite talent it's where we don't put players in the league. Exception is CB. We've done a terrible job of recruiting elite CB's and we have had some proven recent success there.

Did Florida already steal Dak?*

We've done really well at LB, so why isn't Dean really interested in us & why are we behind on Hall?

Additionally, what matters more, if the coaches have developed an NFL RB or if the school has developed an NFL RB?

Lastly, if kids really do care about this & base their decisions on such, how do you break into getting the top recruits at that position? The cycle just continues right? 5 star choose blue blood, which allows blue blood to add another NFL player as an alumnus, which leads to getting another 5 star

[calidawg]

Did Florida already steal Dak?*

We've done really well at LB, so why isn't Dean really interested in us & why are we behind on Hall?

Additionally, what matters more, if the coaches have developed an NFL RB or if the school has developed an NFL RB?

Lastly, if kids really do care about this & base their decisions on such, how do you break into getting the top recruits at that position? The cycle just continues right? 5 star choose blue blood, which allows blue blood to add another NFL player as an alumnus, which leads to getting another 5 star

Clearly I wasn't including QB as an offensive skill player. You have to convince the 5 star to step out on a limb and trust the coaches/program. It's not easy to do. Coaches come and go. It's about the program. Dean and Hall are interested in us. You can't expect us to lead on all elite players.

[JunkyardDog]

1. When we win 10 games every year, finish at least 3rd in the Sec West, win 1 huge game per year, beat Ole Miss 75% of the time or better, act like winners, talk like winners, stop bragging about perceived success in the media (other people will brag on us if we deserve it, and bragging only makes your opponent seem good enough to deserve acknowledgment), make 2 NY6 bowls in a row and win at least one of the two, and secure 75% or more of the top 25 players in Mississippi every recruiting cycle.

2. No issues in recruiting so far. A 5 star running back in LA should be headed to LSU. Good WRs need to see us throw deep.

3. We are locked out right now but not for long. Ole Miss tried to cheat too much and too soon. Your program must be good before trying to recruit great. They were 4-8 and 7-6 before getting a top 10 class. Good luck explaining that.

[ShotgunDawg]

1. When we win 10 games every year, finish at least 3rd in the Sec West, win 1 huge game per year, beat Ole Miss 75% of the time or better, act like winners, talk like winners, stop bragging about perceived success in the media (other people will brag on us if we deserve it, and bragging only makes your opponent seem good enough to deserve acknowledgment), make 2 NY6 bowls in a row and win at least one of the two, and secure 75% or more of the top 25 players in Mississippi every recruiting cycle.

2. No issues in recruiting so far. A 5 star running back in LA should be headed to LSU. Good WRs need to see us throw deep.

3. We are locked out right now but not for long. Ole Miss tried to cheat too much and too soon. Your program must be good before trying to recruit great. They were 4-8 and 7-6 before getting a top 10 class. Good luck explaining that.

Outstanding post.

Thank you for putting forth some thought & not just reacting as if all is well & it's the fans fault for trying to figure this thing out.

As for your point #3, how much longer do feel we will be locked out? If we won the West this year would make a big difference?

If winning is so important, why does A&M get to recruit so well or is their recruiting simply a case of their location?

[Cooterpoot]

Winning doesn't matter. Winning championships does matter. We haven't won jack.

[JunkyardDog]

Perception. A&M has the most money in the SEC, I think. Helps when people think there is no reason kids would NOT want to go there. Big college town (or city, not sure) too. Compare to Starkville where outsiders think it is a trash heap of a town that kids can’t enjoy. A&M also beat Bama and had Manziel.

[gravedigger]

As we see the blue bloods (Bama, Auburn, UGA, FSU, & LSU), regardless of their depth chart, stack ridiculous classes after ridiculous classes on top of each other with kids that are choosing to compete within a stacked depth chart versus potentially attending MSU where the depth chart is potentially thinner & the schedule is the same, what is the expectation of winning that MSU must achieve to breakthrough as a consistent top 15 recruiter?

At this point, MSU has gone to 8 straight bowl games, has been to the NY6, & produced exceptional NFL players. I'm not under the illusion that MSU can out recruit the blue bloods, but it would seem that there is a level at which we can win that could at very least allow us to be a legitimate option of landing high 4 & 5 star players that don't want to enter the competition of a stacked depth chart at a blue blood. Outside of a few in-state players that we have connections & grew MSU fans, we've struggled to sign those types of players.

So here are my questions:

1. At what point would you think we've won enough that the expectation of top 15 recruiting should be expected?

2. Are our recruiting issues due to not winning enough or regional biases &/or a "commitment quotient" by the blue bloods that makes the barriers of entry into their recruiting world something that we can't break into? Is recruiting an A-B conversation & we can C our way out?

3. Are we unable to break into the blue blood recruiting world due to them getting to play by different rules than us?

2 ways:

1. either JoeMo garners the respect that anyone he recruits is a 5 Star or get a coach like that.

2. Hire someone on the inside of each recruiting service to falsely pump the Star counts of the kids who ultimately sign with us.

[JunkyardDog]

Ole Miss has no relevant championship history in the conference and fake nattys, also reasons they were waxed by the NCAA. Perception makes or breaks your team. Zero to hero puts you back at zero.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I think the bigger issue is that we need some of the skill guys to perform better. We have one Whop, Guildry, Williams, or Hill just go out of their mind this year and get into All SEC NCAA All American status and you will see future prospects take notice.

Now Moorhead cannot do it for them. We need one of those guys to become the next Julio Jones or Todd Gurlie. That is the best way to get other guys to look our way.

[BrunswickDawg]

Getting MSU to an elite recruiter status is a multi-generational process - maybe as long as 25 years.
The first 10 years have essentially been completed via Dan - build a consistent winning football team, bowl game is an expectation not an exception, build a dark-horse team every 4-5 years of very experienced talent. This is what the current generation of recruits knows us as. My 17 y.o. and 19 y.o. barely remember us sucking - they really only remember me yelling at the TV and a football game being on.

The second 10 years the program will have to be a 10+ game winner almost every season and continually competing for conference titles, might even sneak an actual title or two in if the stars align, regular NY6 Bowl games.

The final 5 years would need to be a string of highly successful (think Miami in the 80s, FSU in the 90s, Nebraska late 90s) where we are a Top 5 pre-season team each year and back it up on the field.
And even then, if we have a coaching change and make the wrong hire - like Oregon did with Helfrich - you run the risk of slipping back into mediocrity very quickly.

All this probably means is that the blue blood are the blue bloods, and we can't ever really count on breaking thru.

[Dawg2003]

Getting MSU to an elite recruiter status is a multi-generational process - maybe as long as 25 years.
The first 10 years have essentially been completed via Dan - build a consistent winning football team, bowl game is an expectation not an exception, build a dark-horse team every 4-5 years of very experienced talent. This is what the current generation of recruits knows us as. My 17 y.o. and 19 y.o. barely remember us sucking - they really only remember me yelling at the TV and a football game being on.

The second 10 years the program will have to be a 10+ game winner almost every season and continually competing for conference titles, might even sneak an actual title or two in if the stars align, regular NY6 Bowl games.

The final 5 years would need to be a string of highly successful (think Miami in the 80s, FSU in the 90s, Nebraska late 90s) where we are a Top 5 pre-season team each year and back it up on the field.
And even then, if we have a coaching change and make the wrong hire - like Oregon did with Helfrich - you run the risk of slipping back into mediocrity very quickly.

All this probably means is that the blue blood are the blue bloods, and we can't ever really count on breaking thru.

This makes sense. I was just going to write that we need to start having 10 win seasons with some consistency. That's the next step.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

None of this matters. The above mentioned teams are allowed to outright cheat and buy players (Cam Newton, Alabama player's cars, etc.) 5* athletes don't go to teams to sit on a bench for two years but that's exactly what is happening at Alabama. So, winning is not the answer. There are haves and have nots. I do not think this will ever change.

THIS^^ It is all about the $$$$$ in any kind of sport. The rich will get richer. I would be interested in a poll of recruits asking them what are the main reasons they chose a school with the choices being:

1.Winning program
2.Playing Time
3.Proximity to home
4.Relationship with Coaches and or current players
5.Past success of players at their position going to the league.


I bet winning program would be last.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

You're looking for a quick fix on what is a long term solution. MSU under Mullen recruited in the 25-30 range. Asking them to go from that to 11-15 range isn't realistic. The next step isn't 11-15 it's 17-22. Recruit in the 17-22 range for 3-4 years. The results on the field will improve. Go from avg 7 wins a season to 9 in that span. That garners more respect because your bowl games go to the Gator, Outback, & an occasional NY6 instead of Music City, Belk, & an occasional Gator. Then the next step after that is the 12-16 range recruiting. You have to elevate your status tier by tier 1st before you can make huge jumps in recruiting. Don't believe me ask OM. Right now we're considered a consistent bowl team finishing 4-6 in the West. The next step is consistently finishing 2-4 in the West.

The goal right now is getting as many 4* high 3* kids as possible. You trying to get a lot of high 4* low 5* is the wrong way to go. Let us get 3-4 of those kids in a year without them being instate & we'll have the NCAA here the week after signing day. We're on the right path & this class shows that. For some reason maybe losing out of John Emery has made people lose their mind. We're looking at a class between 15-20 right now. We need to stack 3 more on top of that in that range while winning more. That's how you get to where you're trying to go.

[Outsider]

THIS^^ It is all about the $$$$$ in any kind of sport. The rich will get richer. I would be interested in a poll of recruits asking them what are the main reasons they chose a school with the choices being:

1.Winning program
2.Playing Time
3.Proximity to home
4.Relationship with Coaches and or current players
5.Past success of players at their position going to the league.


I bet winning program would be last.

National exposure would be a top reason.

[ShotgunDawg]

You're looking for a quick fix on what is a long term solution. MSU under Mullen recruited in the 25-30 range. Asking them to go from that to 11-15 range isn't realistic. The next step isn't 11-15 it's 17-22. Recruit in the 17-22 range for 3-4 years. The results on the field will improve. Go from avg 7 wins a season to 9 in that span. That garners more respect because your bowl games go to the Gator, Outback, & an occasional NY6 instead of Music City, Belk, & an occasional Gator. Then the next step after that is the 12-16 range recruiting. You have to elevate your status tier by tier 1st before you can make huge jumps in recruiting. Don't believe me ask OM. Right now we're considered a consistent bowl team finishing 4-6 in the West. The next step is consistently finishing 2-4 in the West.

The goal right now is getting as many 4* high 3* kids as possible. You trying to get a lot of high 4* low 5* is the wrong way to go. Let us get 3-4 of those kids in a year without them being instate & we'll have the NCAA here the week after signing day. We're on the right path & this class shows that. For some reason maybe losing out of John Emery has made people lose their mind. We're looking at a class between 15-20 right now. We need to stack 3 more on top of that in that range while winning more. That's how you get to where you're trying to go.

Great post & I/we always value your opinion.

I think the frustrating part is that the blue bloods didn't have to go through this process while having to compete against blue bloods. They just kind of started there.

[ShotgunDawg]

National exposure would be a top reason.

Obviously there are different levels of national exposure, but it feels like most SEC teams get national exposure nowadays

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Great post & I/we always value your opinion.

I think the frustrating part is that the blue bloods didn't have to go through this process while having to compete against blue bloods. They just kind of started there.

Blue bloods became blue bloods after years of winning. You're not a blue blood because you have a nice uniform you're held in that regard because you have a long history of winning. Everyone goes through peaks & valleys but great teams are usually great more than they're not.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Obviously there are different levels of national exposure, but it feels like most SEC teams get national exposure nowadays

MSU doesn't get much national exposure. Outside of 2014 what have we done to earn it? Our fans love to complain about us not getting respect but winning 6-7 games a year doesn't get you national respect. There's 300 bowls so most of the country is winning 6-7 games a year.

[BrunswickDawg]

Blue bloods became blue bloods after years of winning. You're not a blue blood because you have a nice uniform you're held in that regard because you have a long history of winning. Everyone goes through peaks & valleys but great teams are usually great more than they're not.

I've always wondered what MSU would have been like if we hadn't fired McKeen, or been able to keep Warmath or Royal. We were a strong program from 1935-1955, and then wandered in the wilderness for 20 years while other's built their legacies. We missed that 20-25 year program defining coach that all the major powers have had. If we had kept any of those 3 and invested in them - all Hall of Famers - MSU would no doubt be a very different program.

[Cooterpoot]

Nobody cares if we win 10 games a year if we lose to Bama and AU every year. Winning 10 games is nothing if you don't win the division/conference and get into the playoffs. Simply winning will keep you at 6-10 wins a year, depending on the year.
And this whole thing is a rigged system. Those power teams are given far more than other teams. They're kept.

[Irondawg]

Everytime I see threads like this I always just wonder what if we had landed Cam. Would have have done something special for us? Cam and Dak within a 6 year windo would have been something.

[Percho]

Until the investigating body can obtain records financial and otherwise and send people to jail for paying players the haves are going to get most of the best players.

There isn't much reason for any kid to what to go out of their home state to play in another state, other than, "The money was just to much,"

Jail time is the only thing that will stop it.

IMHO

[Dolphus Raymond]

Go back to Atlanta.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

Do you understand just how ridiculous it is that Alabama has had so many #1 recruiting classes? They had #1 classes in 2008 & 2009, 2011-2014, and 2016 & 2017. So, in the past 10 years they have only had 2 years that they were not hauling in the undisputed #1 class. One of those years, 2014, they had the #2 class. It's not only coaching winning all of those games. It's hauling in the best athletes in the country that is causing them to win all of those games. It's simply not a level playing field. What should happen is that this should be suspicious, along with the players always driving new cars. They need to put an investigator in Tuscaloosa for 5 years and just see what they find. But that will never happen.

I'm sure Bama has committed its fair share of cheating over the years, but unfortunately for the rest of us, they don't need to cheat at this point. They probably feel that cheating would be counter productive and a pain-in-the-ass at this junction. If 5 natty in the last ten years are whatever the number is isn't enough incentive for a recruit then nothing will be. The Dark Lord created the perfect monster and he is the biggest one on the block.

[ShotgunDawg]

I'm sure Bama has committed its fair share of cheating over the years, but unfortunately for the rest of us, they don't need to cheat at this point. They probably feel that cheating would be counter productive and a pain-in-the-ass at this junction. If 5 natty in the last ten years are whatever the number is isn't enough incentive for a recruit then nothing will be. The Dark Lord created the perfect monster and he is the biggest one on the block.

Idk, I think they cheat on an industrial scale too large to be caught

[Goldendawg]

You're equating recruiting success too much towards winning. We have nothing to sell to any elite offensive skill players because we have 0 in the NFL. We recruit at a very high level on the D-Line because that is an easy sell for us (plus there is a surplus of d-line talent in MS). O-Line talent is scarce in MS to begin with. Only reason we are in it with Emory was the Saquon Barkley connection with new coaches, but as a program we don't put RB's in positions to succeed in NFL (Boobie was a career special teams player). If you look at where we lack elite talent it's where we don't put players in the league. Exception is CB. We've done a terrible job of recruiting elite CB's and we have had some proven recent success there.

Isn't Gabe Jackson the highest paid OG in the league or close ?

[Goldendawg]

Outstanding post.

Thank you for putting forth some thought & not just reacting as if all is well & it's the fans fault for trying to figure this thing out.

As for your point #3, how much longer do feel we will be locked out? If we won the West this year would make a big difference?

If winning is so important, why does A&M get to recruit so well or is their recruiting simply a case of their location?

Look at how many highly ranked players the State of Texas has and the $ aTm has. They might just be a real good coach away, but I hope it's not Jimbo.

[Goldendawg]

I've always wondered what MSU would have been like if we hadn't fired McKeen, or been able to keep Warmath or Royal. We were a strong program from 1935-1955, and then wandered in the wilderness for 20 years while other's built their legacies. We missed that 20-25 year program defining coach that all the major powers have had. If we had kept any of those 3 and invested in them - all Hall of Famers - MSU would no doubt be a very different program.

The "Blue Bloods" also like to keep other teams in their place. Twice in my life we were headed closer to the top and got put on probation, Bob Tyler and Jackie. This was also when the threat of the investigation and the coming probation would cripple a program (and it did), not like the joke of the NCAA we have today. We do have to beat bama, Auburn, and LSU to get national attn. Also be ready to beat them soundly as the blue bloods also get the calls (see Ridley) until it is known that you are not a flash in the pan. P.S. Finishing out the season and winning a couple more than you lose in the SEC yearly would be another good start. Hail State!

[99jc]

I'm sure Bama has committed its fair share of cheating over the years, but unfortunately for the rest of us, they don't need to cheat at this point. They probably feel that cheating would be counter productive and a pain-in-the-ass at this junction. If 5 natty in the last ten years are whatever the number is isn't enough incentive for a recruit then nothing will be. The Dark Lord created the perfect monster and he is the biggest one on the block.

while the football players come pick up their dates on any given weekend and see what kid of cars they drive. Don't cheat my ASS!

[TUSK]

Do you understand just how ridiculous it is that Alabama has had so many #1 recruiting classes? They had #1 classes in 2008 & 2009, 2011-2014, and 2016 & 2017. So, in the past 10 years they have only had 2 years that they were not hauling in the undisputed #1 class. One of those years, 2014, they had the #2 class. It's not only coaching winning all of those games. It's hauling in the best athletes in the country that is causing them to win all of those games. It's simply not a level playing field. What should happen is that this should be suspicious, along with the players always driving new cars. They need to put an investigator in Tuscaloosa for 5 years and just see what they find. But that will never happen.

REC doin werk, bae.

(Hey, you younger cats, is ?bae? = ?babe?, or is that only when ?you?re smashing ??...?

[Todd4State]

Part of the problem is our recruiting image for the past ten years is that we take diamonds in the rough so the recruiting services have been running with that. The biggest problem was Dan. If we're in the 11-15 range I am happy and if we are in the top 20 I am satisfied.

[TUSK]

You're looking for a quick fix on what is a long term solution. MSU under Mullen recruited in the 25-30 range. Asking them to go from that to 11-15 range isn't realistic. The next step isn't 11-15 it's 17-22. Recruit in the 17-22 range for 3-4 years. The results on the field will improve. Go from avg 7 wins a season to 9 in that span. That garners more respect because your bowl games go to the Gator, Outback, & an occasional NY6 instead of Music City, Belk, & an occasional Gator. Then the next step after that is the 12-16 range recruiting. You have to elevate your status tier by tier 1st before you can make huge jumps in recruiting. Don't believe me ask OM. Right now we're considered a consistent bowl team finishing 4-6 in the West. The next step is consistently finishing 2-4 in the West.

The goal right now is getting as many 4* high 3* kids as possible. You trying to get a lot of high 4* low 5* is the wrong way to go. Let us get 3-4 of those kids in a year without them being instate & we'll have the NCAA here the week after signing day. We're on the right path & this class shows that. For some reason maybe losing out of John Emery has made people lose their mind. We're looking at a class between 15-20 right now. We need to stack 3 more on top of that in that range while winning more. That's how you get to where you're trying to go.

This is correct.

[DogsofAnarchy]

I prefaced everything with "top 15 recruiter". I defined the level of recruiting I was speaking of.

Finishing in the top 25-30 is not the discussion here.

I stand corrected. I think we finish top 25 every year.

[ShotgunDawg]

This is correct.

Alabama never had to go through this.

You guys were just kind of the first team with great coach.

[Pit Bull]

I thought we have broken through. Everybody here and elsewhere says we are recruiting lights out!! What are we.....#12 or 13 currently. That is super!! Just keep doing what we're doing!

[Pit Bull]

NT

[TUSK]

Alabama never had to go through this.

You guys were just kind of the first team with great coach.

Dude, I dig you, but learn to football, em Kay?

Bammer wasn't close to the 1st... They just made southern football relevant for the rest of us in the south....

[BrunswickDawg]

Dude, I dig you, but learn to football, em Kay?

Bammer wasn't close to the 1st... They just made southern football relevant for the rest of us in the south....

You could argue GA Tech was the 1st with a great coach, seeing as the highest award in college football is named for the guy.

[ShotgunDawg]

Dude, I dig you, but learn to football, em Kay?

Bammer wasn't close to the 1st... They just made southern football relevant for the rest of us in the south....

Sorry, just find it funny that a Bama fan is telling what we have to do when Bama has never been in this position

[TUSK]

Sorry, just find it funny that a Bama fan is telling what we have to do when Bama has never been in this position

Sorry to have interjected.

Perhaps a Vandy or UK football fan will join the board and share their secrets of success.

[ShotgunDawg]

Sorry to have interjected.

Perhaps a Vandy or UK football fan will join the board and share their secrets of success.

But that's the thing, just because you cheer for the team with every advantage in college football, does not mean that you or any other Bama fans have additional knowledge about he secrets of this type of situation.

That would be a like a brain surgeon telling Tiger Woods how to swing a golf club. Just because the surgeon is successful & smart does not mean that they have any clue about how to swing a golf club.

Vandy & UK would have no clue either because they have never had anything close to the success we are currently having.

Just saying, I respect your opinion, & I'm not directing this so much at your as much as at Bama, LSU, Georgia, & other blue blood fans that think that just because they support a trust fund baby they have the knowledge & authority to offer advice to programs that are not so blessed & can't get away with what you guys get away with.

[TUSK]

But that's the thing, just because you cheer for the team with every advantage in college football, does not mean that you or any other Bama fans have additional knowledge about he secrets of this type of situation.

That would be a like a brain surgeon telling Tiger Woods how to swing a golf club. Just because the surgeon is successful & smart does not mean that they have any clue about how to swing a golf club.

Vandy & UK would have no clue either because they have never had anything close to the success we are currently having.

Just saying, I respect your opinion, & I'm not directing this so much at your as much as at Bama, LSU, Georgia, & other blue blood fans that think that just because they support a trust fund baby they have the knowledge & authority to offer advice to programs that are not so blessed & can't get away with what you guys get away with.

I'm a fan of college football that happens to have been born into a Bammer Family...

All I did was agree with IYOK's post, as I thought he responded to the OP perfectly...

Opinions are just that, "opinions", and they aren't automatically incorrect because a cat may or may not be able to empathize.

Edit: We cool, buddy! I'll be "checking my Bammer Privilege", now... LOL Peace!

[dawgday166]

But that's the thing, just because you cheer for the team with every advantage in college football, does not mean that you or any other Bama fans have additional knowledge about he secrets of this type of situation.

That would be a like a brain surgeon telling Tiger Woods how to swing a golf club. Just because the surgeon is successful & smart does not mean that they have any clue about how to swing a golf club.

Vandy & UK would have no clue either because they have never had anything close to the success we are currently having.

Just saying, I respect your opinion, & I'm not directing this so much at your as much as at Bama, LSU, Georgia, & other blue blood fans that think that just because they support a trust fund baby they have the knowledge & authority to offer advice to programs that are not so blessed & can't get away with what you guys get away with.

The "secrets" ... Hummers not Rav4s. *

[TUSK]

The "secrets" ... Chargers not Rav4s. *

FIFY

[MoreCowbell]

A lot of it has to do with stuff totally off the field. Women, parties, town. It just does, it is a big factor.

[ScoobaDawg]

You're looking for a quick fix on what is a long term solution. MSU under Mullen recruited in the 25-30 range. Asking them to go from that to 11-15 range isn't realistic. The next step isn't 11-15 it's 17-22. Recruit in the 17-22 range for 3-4 years. The results on the field will improve. Go from avg 7 wins a season to 9 in that span. That garners more respect because your bowl games go to the Gator, Outback, & an occasional NY6 instead of Music City, Belk, & an occasional Gator. Then the next step after that is the 12-16 range recruiting. You have to elevate your status tier by tier 1st before you can make huge jumps in recruiting. Don't believe me ask OM. Right now we're considered a consistent bowl team finishing 4-6 in the West. The next step is consistently finishing 2-4 in the West.

The goal right now is getting as many 4* high 3* kids as possible. You trying to get a lot of high 4* low 5* is the wrong way to go. Let us get 3-4 of those kids in a year without them being instate & we'll have the NCAA here the week after signing day. We're on the right path & this class shows that. For some reason maybe losing out of John Emery has made people lose their mind. We're looking at a class between 15-20 right now. We need to stack 3 more on top of that in that range while winning more. That's how you get to where you're trying to go.


Correct but we can change a little quicker if we truly improved in Coaching this year. Beat Bama. Win the SEC. Win the whole damn thing.

Not saying we magically load up and continue that success but it would be a major sell to players that this is a legit place to come play.

[biggun]

Nobody cares if we win 10 games a year if we lose to Bama and AU every year. Winning 10 games is nothing if you don't win the division/conference and get into the playoffs. Simply winning will keep you at 6-10 wins a year, depending on the year.
And this whole thing is a rigged system. Those power teams are given far more than other teams. They're kept.

Winning 10 games is nothing???? Seriously???

[biggun]

Part of the problem is our recruiting image for the past ten years is that we take diamonds in the rough so the recruiting services have been running with that. The biggest problem was Dan. If we're in the 11-15 range I am happy and if we are in the top 20 I am satisfied.

Agree. Every CBS broadcast in 2014 and 2015 started with ?MSU is a developmental program consisting of 2 and 3 stars but look at them now? Total BS. Hate that moniker and hated the way Mullen allowed it stick because it made him look better

[dawgday166]

FIFY

I've heard from a reliable source at least 1 player who didn't have a pot to whiz in or window to throw it out of, has a new hummer. The gas bill for that thing is probably higher than my mortgage payment.

[TUSK]

I've heard from a reliable source at least 1 player who didn't have a pot to whiz in or window to throw it out of, has a new hummer. The gas bill for that thing is probably higher than my mortgage payment.

That's good to hear... Honestly, I thought Chargers were kinda "low rent" for some of those guys....

[dawgday166]

That's good to hear... Honestly, I thought Chargers were kinda "low rent" for some of those guys....

LOL ... The REC be paying well. Can't even guess at how much bump refs get for turning blind during critical games **

What I really enjoy is when one of ours gets like $2500 for a used vehicle, he has to sit out a year and 4 games. Course, we gotta practice covering it up betta.

[TUSK]

LOL ... The REC be paying well. Can't even guess at how much bump refs get for turning blind during critical games **

REC needs to step it up and start givin' em more... this finishing dead last almost every year in "Opponent Penalties" is gettin' old...

[dawgday166]

REC needs to step it up and start givin' em more... this finishing dead last almost every year in "Opponent Penalties" is gettin' old...

Gotta save some $$ somewhere. No need to get some penalties cut down when beating Ole Miss 66 to whatever. Or the first 8 to 9 games this coming year.

Rec paying well tho when Bama's back is against wall in crucial games.

[Goldendawg]

I've heard from a reliable source at least 1 player who didn't have a pot to whiz in or window to throw it out of, has a new hummer. The gas bill for that thing is probably higher than my mortgage payment.

What recruiting year was this? The last Hummer was made by GM on May 24, 2010. Unless they are now a collector item in value or had been in storage since they fell in popularity, he has a soon to be 9 model years old used vehicle.

[Goldendawg]

LOL ... The REC be paying well. Can't even guess at how much bump refs get for turning blind during critical games **

What I really enjoy is when one of ours gets like $2500 for a used vehicle, he has to sit out a year and 4 games. Course, we gotta practice covering it up betta.

We tried to do things the right way and it cost Redmond. Has any player since involved in a recruiting violation lost this many games? UNM played players who were involved in academic fraud and what has happened to date, nothing until the appeal is decided. Even then, they "vacate" some victories. Big deal!

[TUSK]

Gotta save some $$ somewhere. No need to get some penalties cut down when beating Ole Miss 66 to whatever. Or the first 8 to 9 games this coming year.

Rec paying well tho when Bama's back is against wall in crucial games.

Nice... That's a new conspiracy theory to me...