Braves

[msstate7]

Snit is awful. Folty at 100 pitches and top of nats' lineup up. You. Pull. Him. There. Every. Time. Snit. Why do the little things that every competent tactician in mlb do escape snit? Of course, the nats get 2 straight hits, and snit goes to reverse splits freeman to give up another run to nats. Snit is really bad at when and who to use out the pen

[msstate7]

Stole this from braves' board...

"With Harper's RBI single, left-handed batters are now 9-for-23 (.391) with six walks over the past 30 plate appearances against Sam Freeman

But Snit is a good manager. lmao"

[msstate7]

Since June, here are Freeman's stats before today...

15.0 ip 14 h 13 er 10 bb 17 k
Era 7.80

[VandelayIndustries]

Folty did have Eaton 0-2 and then threw a fat pitch down the middle, agree with you about Freeman though. He really shouldn't pitch in close games

[smootness]

and then threw a fat pitch down the middle

That’s what happens when you’re tired.

[msstate7]

In snit's defense, AA has to get us a LH reliever that can get LH hitters out, and for the love of God, please upgrade flaherty.

[shoeless joe]

Agree with complaints in regards to how free is used outta the pen. I didn't have a problem with folty stayin in there. He had settled in somewhat after the first even tho he'd danced around trouble. And snit is a players manager....so he's goin to give his guys a chance to do their thing.

[BoomBoom]

In snit's defense, AA has to get us a LH reliever that can get LH hitters out, and for the love of God, please upgrade flaherty.

I expect us to pick up a reliever or two, for middling prospects only, guys that look to be utility guys or back of the rotation arms only. The price for SPs is just too high. I hope we don't trade for Archer.

[shoeless joe]

I expect us to pick up a reliever or two, for middling prospects only, guys that look to be utility guys or back of the rotation arms only. The price for SPs is just too high. I hope we don't trade for Archer.

I don't want archer either. But damn I'd love to get deGrom. Braves prolly have the farm system to do it but no way the mets trade him in division. He's got 4+ dominant years left and is under contract for 2 of those. It's a pipe dream but it'd make the braves the favorite in the east this year and several more.

[MetEdDawg]

I expect us to pick up a reliever or two, for middling prospects only, guys that look to be utility guys or back of the rotation arms only. The price for SPs is just too high. I hope we don't trade for Archer.

I said a couple weeks ago that I see AA mostly staying pat except for one or two middle to lower quality bullpen arms that don't make us give up anything of value. I think 2019 is the year you will see us start dumping pitching prospects that don't make the big club.

This year is gonna be a how far can we go with what we have and I don't see them going away from that.

[LibraryDawg]

Snit should have never been given the job full-time.

[BoomBoom]

I said a couple weeks ago that I see AA mostly staying pat except for one or two middle to lower quality bullpen arms that don't make us give up anything of value. I think 2019 is the year you will see us start dumping pitching prospects that don't make the big club.

This year is gonna be a how far can we go with what we have and I don't see them going away from that.

I mostly agree. I think they'll make what they think is a fair offer on a few SPs, including Archer, and wait out the other teams. Game of chicken right up to the deadline, and I don't think AA will blink as he feels fine standing pat too.

Eovaldi just went for one near-ready SP, who wasn't drafted high (12th round out of HS in 2014), but has stradily risen through the ranks and has dominated in AAA this year. I cant tell if he's comparable to Wisler or Allard. Either way, that AA wouldn't make that deal says alot.

[MetEdDawg]

I mostly agree. I think they'll make what they think is a fair offer on a few SPs, including Archer, and wait out the other teams. Game of chicken right up to the deadline, and I don't think AA will blink as he feels fine standing pat too.

Eovaldi just went for one near-ready SP, who wasn't drafted high (12th round out of HS in 2014), but has stradily risen through the ranks and has dominated in AAA this year. I cant tell if he's comparable to Wisler or Allard. Either way, that AA wouldn't make that deal says alot.

When I saw the Eovaldi deal and what was given up for him I figured we weren't going to do anything big at all. We very easily could have beaten that price tag and not really given up a top line prospect. Like you said. The fact we didn't want to do that speaks volumes.

I really thought after we stayed in this division race after June that we might see a switch in how we would approach acquiring someone that might make a big difference now.

[Really Clark?]

When I saw the Eovaldi deal and what was given up for him I figured we weren't going to do anything big at all. We very easily could have beaten that price tag and not really given up a top line prospect. Like you said. The fact we didn't want to do that speaks volumes.

I really thought after we stayed in this division race after June that we might see a switch in how we would approach acquiring someone that might make a big difference now.

Why would you be looking at a 4.28 ERA (4.57 era in July) rental back end starter to trade for? Just to eat innings? He?s only going about 5 1/3 per game? If we add a rotation piece I had rather use multiple prospects to add a good controllable starter that can be a mid rotation guy. But bullpen is still a bigger priority

[BoomBoom]

Why would you be looking at a 4.28 ERA (4.57 era in July) rental back end starter to trade for? Just to eat innings? He?s only going about 5 1/3 per game? If we add a rotation piece I had rather use multiple prospects to add a good controllable starter that can be a mid rotation guy. But bullpen is still a bigger priority

The problem with getting a cost controlled guy is next year we have Teheran, Folty, Newk, Fried, Allard, Soroka, Weigal, and Gohera ready to go. They want to keep Folty, Newk, and Fried, and they'd be selling low on Soroka, Weigal, and Gohera because of injuries.

Teheran and Allard for an upgrade? Nowhere near enough. Standing pat is the right move.

Allard for bullpen relief? I'm down.

[msstate7]

The problem with getting a cost controlled guy is next year we have Teheran, Folty, Newk, Fried, Allard, Soroka, Weigal, and Gohera ready to go. They want to keep Folty, Newk, and Fried, and they'd be selling low on Soroka, Weigal, and Gohera because of injuries.

Teheran and Allard for an upgrade? Nowhere near enough. Standing pat is the right move.

Allard for bullpen relief? I'm down.

AA blew it by not getting familia from the Mets. The A's gave up nothing to get him

I'd try and get Blevins for nothing now as a LH specialist. I'd go after Oh of the blue jays. Oh is having a wonderful year (2.68 era, 3.03 FIP, over 10 k9, under 2 bb9). He's also under contract for next season.

[Really Clark?]

The problem with getting a cost controlled guy is next year we have Teheran, Folty, Newk, Fried, Allard, Soroka, Weigal, and Gohera ready to go. They want to keep Folty, Newk, and Fried, and they'd be selling low on Soroka, Weigal, and Gohera because of injuries.

Teheran and Allard for an upgrade? Nowhere near enough. Standing pat is the right move.

Allard for bullpen relief? I'm down.

I don’t disagree. Just I don’t think trading for Nathan Eovaldi even using a lower rated guy was the right move. Using that piece with others for a better pitcher or staying pat, like you state, is the better choice and is not an indictment on AA not pulling the trigger.

[smootness]

The problem with getting a cost controlled guy is next year we have Teheran, Folty, Newk, Fried, Allard, Soroka, Weigal, and Gohera ready to go. They want to keep Folty, Newk, and Fried, and they'd be selling low on Soroka, Weigal, and Gohera because of injuries.

Teheran and Allard for an upgrade? Nowhere near enough. Standing pat is the right move.

Allard for bullpen relief? I'm down.

Soroka is the most untouchable of that group.

Allard could come up, but I think Touki is first in line for a bullpen spot.

[BoomBoom]

Soroka is the most untouchable of that group.

Allard could come up, but I think Touki is first in line for a bullpen spot.

I forgot Touki. He should be in the 2019 mix too, 2nd half at least. Wright too. Point being, with 10 SPs on the roster for 2019.....we don't need anything other than a 2018 rental.

[smootness]

I forgot Touki. He should be in the 2019 mix too, 2nd half at least. Wright too. Point being, with 10 SPs on the roster for 2019.....we don't need anything other than a 2018 rental.

I mostly agree. I don't want to be big spending at the deadline. You almost always end up overpaying.

That said, if you could get the right deal (say package several pitching prospects for deGrom - not likely), then maybe. But it would have to be a pretty sweet deal.

[msstate7]

I don't wanna go after a starter. I'd rather fix pen with rentals (not gonna happen with AA), and hope between folty, newcomb, Teheran, sanchez, McCarthy, soroka, gohara, fried, and even touki or allard, we'll have enough starters.

[msu15]

"Winning 3 of the next 5 world series" :D

[msstate7]

Snit and Sam freeman... so sick of this duo

[parabrave]

Face it the BP is a mess. We don't have a go to setup man and closer and haven't had one since JV and Kimbrell. And Viscano ain't the answer. I would like to find out why the starters arms are "weak" as mentioned by some of the ATL media.. There has only been one complete game thrown by a starter this year. Most of our starters have thrown around 6-7 innings a game. We are 7-10 in July now 1.5 out of first in the east and 2 out of the WC. It was a great 1st half but I don't see us getting in the playoffs if we can't get more consistent pitching.

[klong-dog]

Our bats haven't been too spiffy either. Seems like all the contenders are making moves. I guess we'll sit back and wait another year.

[KOdawg1]

The bats are COLD. Getting a rental bat wouldn't be the worst thing as long as we don't give up too much to get it.

I'm in favor of us setting up next year as the year. But a couple of things need to be done in order for that to happen.

-Get rid of Julio T. The guy hasn't lived up to the hype, nor does it appear he ever will
-Swanson needs to make major strides at the plate. He's gotten better, but his defense simply isn't good enough for him to be average at the plate too.
-Riley, along with our young armada of pitchers should all be around for 2019. I expect great things from them
-Bullpen management needs to improve. That's on you Snit.
-We need to aquire a shutdown closer this off-season. We haven't had one of those since Kimbrel

[KOdawg1]

Braves trade international signing slot to Rays for Johnny Venters

I'm a huge Johnny Venters fan

[msstate7]

Braves trade international signing slot to Rays for Johnny Venters

I'm a huge Johnny Venters fan

He's been pretty good this year in a SSS. Allowing a .522 ops to lhh and 70.0% ground balls. Hopefully this continues.

[KOdawg1]

He's been pretty good this year in a SSS. Allowing a .522 ops to lhh and 70.0% ground balls. Hopefully this continues.

Hopefully this means the end of the Sam Freeman experiment/love fest

David O'Brian says we wouldn't have been able to use the money anyway because of restrictions so we basically get Johnny for free. Now let's go get Stroman. I'm only half kidding

[msstate7]

Hopefully this means the end of the Sam Freeman experiment/love fest

David O'Brian says we wouldn't have been able to use the money anyway because of restrictions so we basically get Johnny for free. Now let's go get Stroman. I'm only half kidding

I'd love to get stroman. I think he's gonna pitch well down the stretch and his last 2 years under control. But just like I'd love to have 50 yard line season tickets for the saints, I'd probably be unwilling to the price to get them

[parabrave]

Well according to Dallas News via Dave O'Brien the Braves are interested in A Beltre, at least a slight interest. Other than that JV will be the only move.

[msstate7]

Well according to Dallas News via Dave O'Brien the Braves are interested in A Beltre, at least a slight interest. Other than that JV will be the only move.

AA let a chance to try to get in playoffs slip away. The fact Ryan flaherty is a bench bat for this team is straight up pathetic.

[BoomBoom]

AA let a chance to try to get in playoffs slip away. The fact Ryan flaherty is a bench bat for this team is straight up pathetic.

1 run game in the 6th....Luke Jackson followed by Moylan. good grief.

i[m ready to convert our excess of SPs into long relievers. i'd rather see Sanchez, Teheran, McCarthy, Touki, Allard, or Gohera for 3 IP than Freeman, Jackson, and Moylan.

[Bulldog1]

It wouldn't be a Braves game without Sam Freeman pitching!!!!!!!!!

[Bulldog1]

1. Freeman has to go. I don't care what fangraphs says.
2. Why is Venters pitching again tonight? No situational lefty for tomorrow. Snitker has to go. And he can take Anthopolous with him.

[BoomBoom]

1. Freeman has to go. I don't care what fangraphs says.
2. Why is Venters pitching again tonight? No situational lefty for tomorrow. Snitker has to go. And he can take Anthopolous with him.

this is basically what Coppolella chewed out Snitker for..........and Markakis threatened to kick his ass for it. not going to be sad to see Nick go. the whole org needs an enema as to proper analytic use. might as well still have Bobby running things. we haven't learned a thing since '90.

[MetEdDawg]

this is basically what Coppolella chewed out Snitker for..........and Markakis threatened to kick his ass for it. not going to be sad to see Nick go. the whole org needs an enema as to proper analytic use. might as well still have Bobby running things. we haven't learned a thing since '90.

This. I feel like our organization has had virtually no change in philosophy in the last decade. Problem with that is we haven't developed enough talent over that period to have been competitive consistently.

Snitker is an idiot and I'm tired of him. We aren't going to make the playoffs and he needs to be fired. I think the team is playing like a team that knows we aren't going to make any moves to get better for the stretch run.

[msstate7]

This week, we really need to win some games... dodgers, marlins x3, and at Mets x4. I haven't completely given up on this season; but a bad week, and I will. Got to win 5 of these next 8, and really need 6

[MaroonFlounder]

Dodgers about to complete a 4-game sweep. At suntrust. 2nd half collapse continues. It will be hard to watch any Braves games from here on out.

[MaroonFlounder]

So many here talking about Braves pitching, when there's been 2 runs scored in the last 3 games?

[Bulldog1]

Changes need to be made.

[MaroonFlounder]

It sucked seeing a former Brave shut us out yesterday. Why did we give up on Alex Wood?

[MaroonFlounder]

Did some googling. Looks like the Braves got screwed on that 3-team deal that sent Wood to the dodgers. None of the guys the Braves got panned out. Sorry if this has already been discussed.

[Really Clark?]

Newcomb flat dealing today. Outstanding performance

[msstate7]

Newcomb flat dealing today. Outstanding performance

Such a huge start today from Sean. Braves desperately needed it

[KB21]

It sucked seeing a former Brave shut us out yesterday. Why did we give up on Alex Wood?

Coppy did not like his pitching motion.

[Really Clark?]

Brach just picked up from the Orioles for international money as well. That’s two good smart trades with him (if he gets back to his prior form and what he was doing in May/June this year) and Venters

[msstate7]

Brach just picked up from the Orioles for international money as well. That’s two good smart trades with him (if he gets back to his prior form and what he was doing in May/June this year) and Venters

Ready to see if the gohara to rangers rumor comes to fruition

[BoomBoom]

Ready to see if the gohara to rangers rumor comes to fruition

Id pass unless we were getting a prospect or two back that we liked, in addition to the rumored relievers. Presumably far away prospects. Otherwise we would be selling low on Gohera. Though the way the beat writers spoke about him today when they thought he was about to he gone makes me think the org thinks he'll never reach his potential due to his attitude.

[shoeless joe]

Just traded for Adam Duvall...interesting. RH power guy but an OF. I guess he could play left and acuna to center against leftys. Would be a solid bench bat I suppose.

[msstate7]

Just traded for Adam Duvall...interesting. RH power guy but an OF. I guess he could play left and acuna to center against leftys. Would be a solid bench bat I suppose.

I see it same way.

Duvall hasn't been good this year, but had 2 good seasons previously.

[KOdawg1]

I like it.

Wisler and Sims wouldn't have contributed in the future anyway, and Duvall has more power than Tucker and is also a better defender. And like Shoeless said, it allows us to avoid hitting Ender vs LHP.

[msstate7]

Nats apparently shopping Harper and relievers. Looks like us and Phillies. Need to upgrade flaherty at the very least before deadline

[shoeless joe]

Nats apparently shopping Harper and relievers. Looks like us and Phillies. Need to upgrade flaherty at the very least before deadline

Agreed

I'm sure if the braves do end up with beltre he'll be the one to go. Of course I haven't seen how those talks are goin in the last day or so. Braves may not be pursuing him still

[parabrave]

Just traded for Adam Duvall...interesting. RH power guy but an OF. I guess he could play left and acuna to center against leftys. Would be a solid bench bat I suppose.

Yep let's go get a power hitter who is hitting a huge 205, another Dan Uggla, when we need pitching, esp a closer.:confused:

[KOdawg1]

Being reported that we've traded for Kevin Gausman. Hopefully we didn't give up too much. Details still coming out.

[msstate7]

Read on chop country we gave up allard, touki, and Pache. Good freaking grief

[KOdawg1]

Read on chop country we gave up allard, touki, and Pache. Good freaking grief

This better not be true. Holy

[msstate7]

This better not be true. Holy

Apparently a Mod was playing games. Thank God that isn't correct

[KOdawg1]

Apparently a Mod was playing games. Thank God that isn't correct

I was about to be PISSED. We could've at least gotten Schoop along with others for that. Glad it's not true.

[KOdawg1]

Traded Encarnacion, Cumberland, Phillips, and Zimmerman for Gausman and O'Day. I'll take it.

Got another bullpen arm, as well as a veteran 3 or 4 starter

eta: O'Day is on 60 day DL, so he will be of no help this season

[msstate7]

Traded Encarnacion, Cumberland, Phillips, and Zimmerman for Gausman and O'Day. I'll take it.

Got another bullpen arm, as well as a veteran 3 or 4 starter

eta: O'Day is on 60 day DL, so he will be of no help this season
Great deal, AA

No idea why we didn't upgrade flaherty though

[BoomBoom]

Traded Encarnacion, Cumberland, Phillips, and Zimmerman for Gausman and O'Day. I'll take it.

Got another bullpen arm, as well as a veteran 3 or 4 starter

eta: O'Day is on 60 day DL, so he will be of no help this season

Dont like it. Philips would be a bullpen upgrade, so we traded away bullpen help. Gausman is ok to good, but not an improvement over multiple options for next year and the next. Dont get the desire for a controlled starter. We needed a rental only.

[Really Clark?]

Dont like it. Philips would be a bullpen upgrade, so we traded away bullpen help. Gausman is ok to good, but not an improvement over multiple options for next year and the next. Dont get the desire for a controlled starter. We needed a rental only.

You mean bullpen help in the future possibly with Phillips? Because he is not a help this year

[BoomBoom]

You mean bullpen help in the future possibly with Phillips? Because he is not a help this year

He is an upgrade now over sam.Freeman and moylan. Granted, they just got phantom DL injuries and may never return.

[MetEdDawg]

Dont like it. Philips would be a bullpen upgrade, so we traded away bullpen help. Gausman is ok to good, but not an improvement over multiple options for next year and the next. Dont get the desire for a controlled starter. We needed a rental only.

Gausman has a 2018 WAR of 2.3 and an ERA of 3.13 against teams not in the AL East. For comparison, Teheran and Archer have a WAR of .5. I think pitching against NL teams consistently could get Gausman below 3. He's pitching on a bad team in a loaded division. I could see us using Teheran in the offseason as part of a trade deal for a big RH bat, top tier SP, or big time catcher. So Gausman could replace him and I'm ok with that.

[Really Clark?]

He is an upgrade now over sam.Freeman and moylan. Granted, they just got phantom DL injuries and may never return.

Phillips and his 8.53 era in the majors? I know it’s a small sample and his Triple A numbers look promising this year but his minor league numbers were not great prior either. Moylan is sitting at 4.45 era, little better than Phillips. Down the line next year, maybe but Freeman is a career 3.79 in the majors, bullpen guys can have up and down season. Been used way way too much this year

[BoomBoom]

Gausman has a 2018 WAR of 2.3 and an ERA of 3.13 against teams not in the AL East. For comparison, Teheran and Archer have a WAR of .5. I think pitching against NL teams consistently could get Gausman below 3. He's pitching on a bad team in a loaded division. I could see us using Teheran in the offseason as part of a trade deal for a big RH bat, top tier SP, or big time catcher. So Gausman could replace him and I'm ok with that.

Gausman definitely improves the rotation for this year. He just doesnt do much for the next two years, and he won't be cheap for those either. Really, he brings consistency. A slightly better Brandon McCarthy. That has value, but not much for a team.with the SPs we alrrady.have for next year. Its not a bad trade, we really didn't give up anything we are likely to miss, and we are better this year, I just don't get the desire for yet another middling SP for next year. Maybe they see something they can fix.

[Matty Dispatch]

No idea why we didn't upgrade flaherty though

AA said he wanted another LH bench bat but couldn't make it work. He said he will continue to look for one through waivers in August.

[shoeless joe]

Would be a good time for an extended win streak here finishing up the marlins and heading to New York. Easier said than done but an 8-9 game streak could all but seal the deal...also could do the same for the phils.

I'd like to see allard sent back down. He didn't have his curve last nite and was fortunate to stay in as long as he did. I like the way he attacks but he has little room for error and pitched almost exclusively with his fastball. Was fun to watch him tho. Maybe the nerves will settle and he'll have his full repertoire for his next start.

[smootness]

Gausman definitely improves the rotation for this year. He just doesnt do much for the next two years, and he won't be cheap for those either. Really, he brings consistency. A slightly better Brandon McCarthy. That has value, but not much for a team.with the SPs we alrrady.have for next year. Its not a bad trade, we really didn't give up anything we are likely to miss, and we are better this year, I just don't get the desire for yet another middling SP for next year. Maybe they see something they can fix.

Gausman is not middling; he's an average SP with a chance for something a little more. He has very similar value to Folty right now. He's not a TOR starter, but he's definitely useful.

Next year we have a lot of unknowns still with the rotation. We have talent coming, but it's all still uncertain to some degree. Basically right now we have Folty and Newcomb that we feel confident will be in the rotation and at least average, because right now they're both roughly average, maybe a tick more.

You feel confident Soroka will be in the rotation once healthy, and you certainly think he can be good but you don't really know and his shoulder is a concern. So that's 3 guys that you feel good about being there and giving you some value. After that, who do you have? Gausman is better than Teheran, he's better than Sanchez as well, though Sanchez won't even be here.

So beyond that, you have to rely on complete unknowns coming up from the minors. Allard doesn't look like someone you're going to be able to count on, Gohara has been up and down since injury and is out of shape, and after that nobody has shown they're ready to come up. Wright could at some point, but it will likely be later in the year at least, Fried is a possibility in the rotation but still an unknown, and everybody else is further away.

Gausman gives you a stable, steady hand in the rotation, and again, he is someone who could have more than he's shown the last couple years. So he basically gives you a 4th guy you feel like can at least be average when healthy (with Folty, Newcomb, and Soroka), and you still have a spot open to either go after a TOR (unlikely) or call somebody up - hopefully Gohara or Wright. We were going to have to add another SP at some point in the offseason anyway, and he is not expensive at all, he'll be in arbitration.

[msstate7]

Would be a good time for an extended win streak here finishing up the marlins and heading to New York. Easier said than done but an 8-9 game streak could all but seal the deal...also could do the same for the phils.

I'd like to see allard sent back down. He didn't have his curve last nite and was fortunate to stay in as long as he did. I like the way he attacks but he has little room for error and pitched almost exclusively with his fastball. Was fun to watch him tho. Maybe the nerves will settle and he'll have his full repertoire for his next start.

It was just a spot start for allard.

[Bulldog1]

From ChopCountry.

By now, we all know the Braves completed their sole mission in life by acquiring a controlled MLB SP. They were dead set on getting one for quite some time, and they finally got one in Kevin Gausman.

So who is this guy other than "not as good as Chris Archer"?

In short: 27 year old SP controlled via Arb for 2 more seasons after this year who should be projected for 2-3 wins per season for the duration of his cost controlled years at a total salary of around ~$20M (~$8M in 2019, ~$12M in 2020).

His stuff is declining, as is typical for pitchers in their mid-20s:

https://i.imgur.com/JuBTRTI.jpg

His current repertoire is Four-Seamer (FA), Slider (SL), and Splitter (FS), and his stuff grades out as follows...

FA: 93.9 mph (Grade 52.8), 6.7" HMov (Grade 58.8), 7.8" HMov (Grade 39.1)

This is a flat FA with plus arm side run. This is a solid average or slightly better FA. I'll say 50/55.

SL: 81.7 mph (Grade 37.6), 1.0" HMov (Grade 42.3), -0.7" HMov (Grade 60.8)

This is a slow SL with more downward action than glove side run. I would call this a Slurve, and it's an above average pitch. Let's call it a 55.

FS: 10.7 mph delta (Grade 64.4), 8.3" HMov (Grade 54.3), 1.0" VMov (Grade 65.8)

Splitters are hard to grade because there aren't many in MLB, but they act like a CH. It has plus velocity delta from his FA, above average arm side run, and plus or plus-plus sink. This is easily his best pitch, and I would hang an easy 65 on it. This pitch is likely why Gausman has allowed a lower wOBA vs LHH (.315) than vs RHH (.342) in his career.

Command: 2.71 career BB/9 (Grade 55), has flashed as high as Grade 65 in previous seasons. This is plus command.

Overall, we are looking at a 50/55 FA, 55 SL/CU, and a 65 FS with plus command. This is exactly what a role 50/60 SP looks like.
A 50/60 SP is a #3 or #4 starting pitcher.

[msstate7]

From ChopCountry.

A 50/60 SP is a #3 or #4 starting pitcher.

Enscheff is unbelievable at grading pitchers. He's also an unbelievable douche. Can't wait to rub his nose in it when I win our bet... Camargo currently up on mous

[Bulldog1]

Enscheff is unbelievable at grading pitchers. He's also an unbelievable douche. Can't wait to rub his nose in it when I win our bet... Camargo currently up on mous
Yep. It's really uncalled for. As much as he complains about people overreacting to losses over there, he would have a stroke if he came over here and read one of our baseball threads. Haha!

[BoomBoom]

From ChopCountry.

A 50/60 SP is a #3 or #4 starting pitcher.

By midyear next year at the latest we have the following comparable value SPs:

Folty, Newcomb, Toussant, Soroka (if comes back 100% after TJ). In addition, we have Fried, Gohera, Wright, and Allard. The first 3 have the potential to be as good as Gaussman, maybe better. We also have Wilson in AAA now, and Anderson in AA, both likely ready by 2020. I didnt count Teheran, as they are now pot committed to trading him after this move.

That means 3 pitchers with 3 or higher potential will be in AAA next year despite being ready, BEFORE this trade. And that number will quickly increase as we go. Maybe they are banking on their trade value being greater than Gaussman's. I don't disagree, we spent little to get him. But the argument that we "needed" a cost controlled SP is flatly ridiculous.

This is basically a "diversify your portfolio" move. It gives consistency/reliability, at the cost of the ceiling to returns. That has value. But it's not the best route to championships IMO. Give the TOR-ceiling guys the ball and roll your dice.

Now, there's reason to think Gaussman may be a #2 for us going forward, with better D and a bigger park working for him. I trust this org on that type of call. And if so, great trade. I just dont see the need for a cost controlled 3/4 when you have this talent thats this ready.

[Bulldog1]

Grading Kolby Allard's Stuff

• Below Average to Average Fastball Velocity. (88-90 mph; Grade 45-50) (Below Average Spin Rate)

• Average Curveball Velocity (76-80 mph; Grade 50) (Below Average to Average Spin Rate)

• Below Average Changeup Velocity (80-83 mph; Grade 40-45) (Average Spin Rate)

• Good Slider Velocity (88-90 mph; Grade 55-60) (Average Spin Rate)

Allard is a #3 or #4 Starting Pitcher at best.

[Really Clark?]

By midyear next year at the latest we have the following comparable value SPs:

Folty, Newcomb, Toussant, Soroka (if comes back 100% after TJ). In addition, we have Fried, Gohera, Wright, and Allard. The first 3 have the potential to be as good as Gaussman, maybe better. We also have Wilson in AAA now, and Anderson in AA, both likely ready by 2020. I didnt count Teheran, as they are now pot committed to trading him after this move.

That means 3 pitchers with 3 or higher potential will be in AAA next year despite being ready, BEFORE this trade. And that number will quickly increase as we go. Maybe they are banking on their trade value being greater than Gaussman's. I don't disagree, we spent little to get him. But the argument that we "needed" a cost controlled SP is flatly ridiculous.

This is basically a "diversify your portfolio" move. It gives consistency/reliability, at the cost of the ceiling to returns. That has value. But it's not the best route to championships IMO. Give the TOR-ceiling guys the ball and roll your dice.

Now, there's reason to think Gaussman may be a #2 for us going forward, with better D and a bigger park working for him. I trust this org on that type of call. And if so, great trade. I just dont see the need for a cost controlled 3/4 when you have this talent thats this ready.

Tommy John for Soroka?

[BoomBoom]

Grading Kolby Allard's Stuff

• Below Average to Average Fastball Velocity. (88-90 mph; Grade 45-50) (Below Average Spin Rate)

• Average Curveball Velocity (76-80 mph; Grade 50) (Below Average to Average Spin Rate)

• Below Average Changeup Velocity (80-83 mph; Grade 40-45) (Average Spin Rate)

• Good Slider Velocity (88-90 mph; Grade 55-60) (Average Spin Rate)

Allard is a #3 or #4 Starting Pitcher at best.

Agreed. Hes the lowest ceiling of our SP prospects. He's delivered at every level though. Just doesnt miss enough bats to confidently predict as a succesful starter yet.

[BoomBoom]

Tommy John for Soroka?

Sorry, confused him with Weigal, who I forgot to include.

[Bully13]

Sorry to hijack y'all's Braves thread but didn't wanna start a new thread. I think this short video clip of the D-Backs barely making the deadline getting the Rangers pitcher is pretty cool. The video shows him being golf carted to the locker room then meeting his new team mates.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/08/01/arizona-diamondbacks-literally-pick-up-new-pitcher-from-texas-rangers-by-golf-cart-at-trade-deadline.html

[msstate7]

Sorry, confused him with Weigal, who I forgot to include.

Speaking of, he (PW) should be back soon. I really like him

[Matty Dispatch]

Grading Kolby Allard's Stuff

? Below Average to Average Fastball Velocity. (88-90 mph; Grade 45-50) (Below Average Spin Rate)

? Average Curveball Velocity (76-80 mph; Grade 50) (Below Average to Average Spin Rate)

? Below Average Changeup Velocity (80-83 mph; Grade 40-45) (Average Spin Rate)

? Good Slider Velocity (88-90 mph; Grade 55-60) (Average Spin Rate)

Allard is a #3 or #4 Starting Pitcher at best.

This is so stupid. He is a 20 year old pitcher who relies on control....and he's already earned a MLB start. There is plenty of room for improvement. Tom Glavine was a mediocre MLB pitcher until he turned 25 years old, then he had a hall of fame career.

[shoeless joe]

This is so stupid. He is a 20 year old pitcher who relies on control....and he's already earned a MLB start. There is plenty of room for improvement. Tom Glavine was a mediocre MLB pitcher until he turned 25 years old, then he had a hall of fame career.

Guts, guile, and carftiness can't be quantified in sabermetrics so they get ignored...but those 3 things got glavine to the HOF

[Bulldog1]

Nm.

[MetEdDawg]

The art of hitting your spot has been replaced by blowing your stuff by people or having exceedingly hard breaking stuff.

But you can still have average stuff and be a damn good pitcher by hitting your spots. It's no easier to hit a FB in the bottom away corner of the zone than it was 20 years ago. Allard can have a fine career. But his style of pitching isn't flashy and doesn't draw attention which is a negative in today's sports media.

[msstate7]

I still wanna see allard pitch more, but I do think stuff is very important. I'm hoping that for whatever reason his stuff wasn't sharp last night. He's been ultra successful at every level and debuted in mlb at 20, so I'm hardly closing the book on him.

[smootness]

The art of hitting your spot has been replaced by blowing your stuff by people or having exceedingly hard breaking stuff.

But you can still have average stuff and be a damn good pitcher by hitting your spots. It's no easier to hit a FB in the bottom away corner of the zone than it was 20 years ago. Allard can have a fine career. But his style of pitching isn't flashy and doesn't draw attention which is a negative in today's sports media.

Sure, but he doesn't have average stuff. He has terrible stuff.

[MetEdDawg]

Sure, but he doesn't have average stuff. He has terrible stuff.

This is a not factual statement.

[Really Clark?]

Major league debut at 20, lengthy rain delay, control feel pitcher in wet conditions and still went 5 quality innings. Not saying he will be a top of the rotation guy but come on guys. He is better than some of y’all think after just 1 start

[shoeless joe]

Major league debut at 20, lengthy rain delay, control feel pitcher in wet conditions and still went 5 quality innings. Not saying he will be a top of the rotation guy but come on guys. He is better than some of y?all think after just 1 start

Agreed.

He had no curve at all. Surely the conditions played a role there. But he was very lucky that Miami hit some at em balls which helped him get out of innings. He'll get some more well deserved opportunities but his margin for error will always be less