Devil's Advocate regarding football hype...

[CadaverDawg]

We're all wooly about football, myself included, so I'm going to play devil's advocate, and you guys tell me why I'm wrong or if you agree.

Everyone agrees Moorhead will open up the offense and we'll pass more. Well, whether you want to give Don credit or not, his "safe" play calling helped us when it came to turnovers....and turnovers are a recipe for disaster in the SEC. Why should we not be slightly concerned that we're about to start throwing it a lot more with a QB that sits around 50% completions for his career?

Could more passing and more reads actually end up hurting the O due to potentially causing more turnovers?

[ShotgunDawg]

Are we going to throw it more or just throw it differently?

If we throw more, are more passes to the RBs actually going to increase turnovers or are they an extended running game?

After that, I concur with your post.

My biggest fear is that Fitz just isn't an accurate passer and lacks the touch to throw a bunch, which will lead to a ton of 3 outs where our offense only ate up 30 seconds of clock.

[bulldawg28]

Fitz is a above average passer. His WR's hurt him a lot. Also, Jomo is smart enough to adjust to our strengths. He will not try to make a square peg fit a circle with the offense.

[bulldawg28]

Are we going to throw it more or just throw it differently?

If we throw more, are more passes to the RBs actually going to increase turnovers or are they an extended running game?

After that, I concur with your post.

My biggest fear is that Fitz just isn't an accurate passer and lacks the touch to throw a bunch, which will lead to a ton of 3 outs where our offense only ate up 30 seconds of clock.

Fitz was forced the ball perfectly or a tight window due to smaller WR's . Now that he'll have more size the pass radius increases.

[basedog]

The late but great Coach Darrel Royal once stated, "There are three things while passing and two of them are bad".

And the late but great Coach Pat Summit once stated, "Offense sells tickets but Defense wins games".

[thf24]

The wooliness in me says that while Mullen's offense limited turnovers in conventional situations, he probably added at least 3-4 over the course of a season due to boneheaded gimmicks that never worked (fake punts, etc.). He also wasn't without his share of 4-5 turnover blowouts despite safe playcalling.

As far as Fitz completion percentage, I'd like to think we're going to see that go up due to giving him bigger windows to throw into as a result of competent WR coaching. Hard for almost anyone to throw 65% when you barely have anyone who can get loose from even SWAC CB's on a consistent basis.

[ShotgunDawg]

Fitz is a above average passer.

I'm a fitz fan but I don't agree with this. He's shown no sign of being an above average passer. He has above average arm strength but throws off his back foot consistently, which leads to him airmailing the ball consistently. Additionally, he throws a heavy, hard pass.

While, I'm a fan, for him to take the next step as a passer, he needs to transform himself from the football equivalent of a 98 mph reliever with control issues to a a starting pitcher with touch, feel, and command.

[ShotgunDawg]

Fitz was forced the ball perfectly or a tight window due to smaller WR's . Now that he'll have more size the pass radius increases.

You just described about 40% of his issue. Certianly a major part but not the entire issue.

[MetEdDawg]

Are we going to throw it more or just throw it differently?

If we throw more, are more passes to the RBs actually going to increase turnovers or are they an extended running game?

After that, I concur with your post.

My biggest fear is that Fitz just isn't an accurate passer and lacks the touch to throw a bunch, which will lead to a ton of 3 outs where our offense only ate up 30 seconds of clock.

I think some of the action we see in the offense Jo Mo will run will help create bigger windows.

I'll also say that I believe the vertical passing philosophy that comes with this offense will open the short and intermediate passing game. That was my biggest complaint about the Mullen offense was that we got played so close by good secondaries that we could never get separation. The deep threat was never really a threat. So teams played us close and that cut our windows down in the short and intermediate passing game.

Fitz isn't a bad passer. He made some damn good throws last year including the one to win the Arkansas game. But just like any QB, the function of your offense and the types of playmakers at your disposal dictate how you throw. A strong OL, bigger WRs, and a vertical passing threat with the Joe Mo offense have me feeling very good about the passing game this year.

[msstatelp1]

The late but great Coach Darrel Royal once stated, "There are three things while passing and two of them are bad".

And the late but great Coach Pat Summit once stated, "Offense sells tickets but Defense wins games".

"Chicks dig the checkdown" but I forgot who said it.

[bulldawg28]

I'm a fitz fan but I don't agree with this. He's shown no sign of being an above average passer. He has above average arm strength but throws off his back foot consistently, which leads to him airmailing the ball consistently. Additionally, he throws a heavy, hard pass.

While, I'm a fan, for him to take the next step as a passer, he needs to transform himself from the football equivalent of a 98 mph reliever with control issues to a a starting pitcher with touch, feel, and command.

He's 50% right now. If you simply include the passes dropped that's above average.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I think this narrative that JoeMo is going to come in & sling around like Mike Leach needs to die here. JoeMo is a guy who likes to take deep shots but he’s not running around throwing 60 times a game. I’ll do a comparison for the last 4 years of run/pass % between Mullen & JoeMo.

Mullen

2017 - 65/35 Run
2016 - 57/43 Run
2015 - 54/46 Pass
2014 - 58/42 Run

JoeMo

2017 - 50/50 Run
2016 - 58/42 Run
2015 - 53/47 Run
2014 - 56/44 Pass

So the truth is JoeMo loves to run the ball too but when he passes he’s going for the HR big play. That’s the difference between Mullen & JoeMo. Mullen was content with 10, 12, 15 play drives. JoeMo doesn’t mind a 3 play 80 yard drive off the strength of a 60 yard TD bomb.

[Cooterpoot]

We aren't going to throw the ball all over the place and we're going to throw to the backs more. There's not that big a risk increase. But the reward will be big. Mullen ran his minimalized playbook to perfection. But he was scared to do the things necessary to make us competitive with top teams. JoMo's record vs top teams won't ever be as bad as Mullen's. You have to take chances vs teams better than you. Mullen didn't. Screw him!

[shoeless joe]

I hope we run the hell outta the ball. Got two elite backs and a veteran line.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think this narrative that JoeMo is going to come in & sling around like Mike Leach needs to die here. JoeMo is a guy who likes to take deep shots but he’s not running around throwing 60 times a game. I’ll do a comparison for the last 4 years of run/pass % between Mullen & JoeMo.

Mullen

2017 - 65/35 Run
2016 - 57/43 Run
2015 - 54/46 Pass
2014 - 58/42 Run

JoeMo

2017 - 50/50 Run
2016 - 58/42 Run
2015 - 53/47 Run
2014 - 56/44 Pass

So the truth is JoeMo loves to run the ball too but when he passes he’s going for the HR big play. That’s the difference between Mullen & JoeMo. Mullen was content with 10, 12, 15 play drives. JoeMo doesn’t mind a 3 play 80 yard drive off the strength of a 60 yard TD bomb.

This is all true, but I think the bolded part is the key. Dan was so risk adverse, he rarely took the shot downfield even when we had WR capable and getting open. It was one of my biggest complaints about Dan the play caller. 2-3 shots downfield a game - even if they fall incomplete - opens up the offense and keeps defenses honest. Once it got to nut cutting time, everyone knew Dan abandoned the deep ball and defended us that way.

[bostondawg]

I think this narrative that JoeMo is going to come in & sling around like Mike Leach needs to die here. JoeMo is a guy who likes to take deep shots but he?s not running around throwing 60 times a game. I?ll do a comparison for the last 4 years of run/pass % between Mullen & JoeMo.

Mullen

2017 - 65/35 Run
2016 - 57/43 Run
2015 - 54/46 Pass
2014 - 58/42 Run

JoeMo

2017 - 50/50 Run
2016 - 58/42 Run
2015 - 53/47 Run
2014 - 56/44 Pass

So the truth is JoeMo loves to run the ball too but when he passes he?s going for the HR big play. That?s the difference between Mullen & JoeMo. Mullen was content with 10, 12, 15 play drives. JoeMo doesn?t mind a 3 play 80 yard drive off the strength of a 60 yard TD bomb.

Yep. This x10000. I think this run/pass splits show a similar narrative between Dan and Joe: when they have a QB they feel comfortable with they'll open up their passing playbook (Dak 2015 and Mike Nebrich at Fordham, who put up 35 passing TDs in 2013 and 30 in 2014). But JoeMo has no problem putting the ball in the hands of his running back(s).

ETA: and for stats comparison sake:
2014 Dak (rs-jr): passing--61.6%, 3449 yards, 27 TD, 11 int. rushing--986 yards 14 TD
2013 Nebrich (jr): passing--73.5%, 4380 yards, 35 TD, 7 int. rushing--513 yards 9 TD

2015 Dak (rs-sr): passing--66.2%, 3793 yd, 29 TD 5 int. rushing--588 yd 10 TD
2014 Nebrich (sr): passing--63.8%, 3599 yd, 30 TD 9 int. rushing-- -96yd 1 TD (lol)

[Cooterpoot]

"That’s the difference between Mullen & JoeMo. Mullen was content with 10, 12, 15 play drives. JoeMo doesn’t mind a 3 play 80 yard drive off the strength of a 60 yard TD bomb."

And considering how Dan struggled keeping a DC and had a couple bad ones (stuck his nose in the defense), it rarely made sense to rely on the defense vs good teams. Last year was the exception.

[sleepy dawg]

I think you're right to play Devil's advocate. We, as a site, tend to be pretty realistic as compared to most fan sites, but in this year's case, I think most are only considering the average to ceiling scenarios while ignoring the floor.

There are many unknowns. We have an entire new staff running entirely new schemes. We don't have the luxury of knowing which of our coaches aren't good enough. There's no way every coach we hired was great and a perfect fit and there will be some growing pains there. With all these changes, how long does it take us to really find our rhythm and gel? Could we end up losing a game or 2 we shouldn't have early on b/c of this?
And we aren't just going to be throwing it to the RBs more. We will be taking more downfield shots. Jo Mo seems awesome. He has head coaching experience and he ran a great offense in the Big 10. How he does as a head coach in the SEC West is still to be determined. This is a whole different ballgame than he's been in before. Our DC has some major redflags too. It's easy to say we can just rule his time at Tennessee as an anomaly, or are we missing something major with him. Maybe that very much needs to be taken into account on how he handles playing against the best of the best. What if Fitz' ankle has a major setback in game 2? Sure Key is the future, but is Key ready to lead us to a 10+ win season? I doubt it.

All that said, I do think we're going to have a big time season, but there are plenty of risks and lots of unknowns going into this season.

[CadaverDawg]

I think this narrative that JoeMo is going to come in & sling around like Mike Leach needs to die here. JoeMo is a guy who likes to take deep shots but he’s not running around throwing 60 times a game. I’ll do a comparison for the last 4 years of run/pass % between Mullen & JoeMo.

Mullen

2017 - 65/35 Run
2016 - 57/43 Run
2015 - 54/46 Pass
2014 - 58/42 Run

JoeMo

2017 - 50/50 Run
2016 - 58/42 Run
2015 - 53/47 Run
2014 - 56/44 Pass

So the truth is JoeMo loves to run the ball too but when he passes he’s going for the HR big play. That’s the difference between Mullen & JoeMo. Mullen was content with 10, 12, 15 play drives. JoeMo doesn’t mind a 3 play 80 yard drive off the strength of a 60 yard TD bomb.

Good info, I didn't realize it was that close to 50/50 with Joe Mo, but I also never went Leach. I was thinking he was closer to 60-65% pass, and I'm actually thrilled to see the % closer to 50/50 since we should have a great running game this year. I think HR balls will definitely open up the O, but they can still lead to more turnovers. I just hope Fitz protects the football, bc our run game and defense should be stout enough to lean on in a lot of games. I feel like we'll see a lot of receivers, TE's, and RB's running free in the RPO passing game with Joe Mo's style. Should be fun

[CadaverDawg]

This is all true, but I think the bolded part is the key. Dan was so risk adverse, he rarely took the shot downfield even when we had WR capable and getting open. It was one of my biggest complaints about Dan the play caller. 2-3 shots downfield a game - even if they fall incomplete - opens up the offense and keeps defenses honest. Once it got to nut cutting time, everyone knew Dan abandoned the deep ball and defended us that way.

I agree. The Kang once said he would tell Madkin when he called a play action fly pattern, he was doing it to back off the safeties so we could keep running the ball...so he'd tell him if our guy didn't have at least two steps on the DB, to air mail it over his head because it wasn't designed for a TD anyway, ha. I loved that about Jackie, and it was something Dan should have done more.

[Cooterpoot]

My only concern with the new offensive staff is they're about to see some defenses like they've never seen. At least not from a week to week perspective. The speed and size in the SEC is the best in the country. The coaching is improving now too. They'll have to be ready to adjust some things.

[GreenheadDawg]

I'm a fitz fan but I don't agree with this. He's shown no sign of being an above average passer. He has above average arm strength but throws off his back foot consistently, which leads to him airmailing the ball consistently. Additionally, he throws a heavy, hard pass.

While, I'm a fan, for him to take the next step as a passer, he needs to transform himself from the football equivalent of a 98 mph reliever with control issues to a a starting pitcher with touch, feel, and command.

I don?t think anyone can argue with this. Fitz is a great bulldog and hell of an athlete but an above average passer he is not.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I don?t think anyone can argue with this. Fitz is a great bulldog and hell of an athlete but an above average passer he is not.

I’ll be very surprised if Fitz isn’t a 60-65% passer this year.

[NWADAWG]

From watching a video or two on Jomo ?s passing philosophy, it seems like it will be more successful than Mullen?s. A lot of Mullen?s seemed to me it was ?beat your guy with your route and get open?. That works OK if you?re loaded with 5* studs at receiver. We didn?t and therefore never got separation. Jomo?s seems to create separation by design. Attack an area an make defenders make choices. Take the open choice. If they choose foolishly, burn them for a td. Assuming Fitz can read the open choices, I think his completion percentage will go up significantly.

[Dawg2003]

One of my question marks is Bob Shoop. What happened at TN? Obviously, Moorhead felt those were extenuating circumstances and trusts him. But that’s still a worry for me.

[ShotgunDawg]

I’ll be very surprised if Fitz isn’t a 60-65% passer this year.

If he is, then watch the 17 out for Mississippi State. Playoff contender.

[ShotgunDawg]

From watching a video or two on Jomo ?s passing philosophy, it seems like it will be more successful than Mullen?s. A lot of Mullen?s seemed to me it was ?beat your guy with your route and get open?. That works OK if you?re loaded with 5* studs at receiver. We didn?t and therefore never got separation. Jomo?s seems to create separation by design. Attack an area an make defenders make choices. Take the open choice. If they choose foolishly, burn them for a td. Assuming Fitz can read the open choices, I think his completion percentage will go up significantly.

JoMo's offense is the next generation of the Meyer/Mullen scheme.

It's better at blending the unique run concepts with a legit passing game.

[Todd4State]

Turnovers are fairly random events in general. Joe's offense will also have a lot of higher percentage shorter pass routes and RPO's which will limit turnovers some and forcing defenders to cover everything limits turnovers IMO.

We finished -1 in turnover margin last year FWIW.

[ShotgunDawg]

Turnovers are fairly random events in general. Joe's offense will also have a lot of higher percentage shorter pass routes and RPO's which will limit turnovers some and forcing defenders to cover everything limits turnovers IMO.

We finished -1 in turnover margin last year FWIW.

I would argue that we have had too few turnovers in the past few years.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'm ok with some turnovers so long as they don't exceed the "risk/reward" matrix.

It's the problem with Alex Smith as an NFL QB. He rarely turns the ball over but he's so risk averse that he doesn't really make plays either.

If MSU wants to win more big games, we've got to take more risk & shorten drives. If are looking for the number 1 reason that Mullen didn't win big games, that is the reason

[TrapGame]

One of my question marks is Bob Shoop. What happened at TN? Obviously, Moorhead felt those were extenuating circumstances and trusts him. But that’s still a worry for me.

Shoop was micromanaged by Butch. Butch let the defensive players treat Shoop like he was a water boy. Butch did not have Shoop's back on player issues. This is what I've read on UT boards and heard from one of the ESPN guys that was on Bo's show a couple of months ago. Remember, the team pretty much quit on Pruitt during their spring game - the effing SPRING GAME! They have way deeper problems than Shoop.

[BrunswickDawg]

Shoop was micromanaged by Butch. Butch let the defensive players treat Shoop like he was a water boy. Butch did not have Shoop's back on player issues. This is what I've read on UT boards and heard from one of the ESPN guys that was on Bo's show a couple of months ago. Remember, the team pretty much quit on Pruitt during their spring game - the effing SPRING GAME! They have way deeper problems than Shoop.

Wait - UT quit on their new coach during the Spring Game?? What is this story? I'd not heard that anywhere.

[Matty Dispatch]

I'm a fitz fan but I don't agree with this. He's shown no sign of being an above average passer. He has above average arm strength but throws off his back foot consistently, which leads to him airmailing the ball consistently. Additionally, he throws a heavy, hard pass.

While, I'm a fan, for him to take the next step as a passer, he needs to transform himself from the football equivalent of a 98 mph reliever with control issues to a a starting pitcher with touch, feel, and command.

It's not easy to run the ball 25 times a game, going toe to toe with linebackers and then getting back up and seconds later trying to throw an accurate pass. Moorhead doesn't plan to use Fitz as a battering ram quite as much, so that alone should help him with his accuracy.

[TrapGame]

Wait - UT quit on their new coach during the Spring Game?? What is this story? I'd not heard that anywhere.

Yep, I was watching it when it happened. Pruitt was PISSED! Half the team just gave up, ready to wrap it up and go home. It was like watching two five year olds wrestle the second half.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's not easy to run the ball 25 times a game, going toe to toe with linebackers and then getting back up and seconds later trying to throw an accurate pass. Moorhead doesn't plan to use Fitz as a battering ram quite as much, so that alone should help him with his accuracy.

Not disagreeing, but I think you're kind of making an excuse that only encapsulates about 5% of Nick's issues. So between short WRs and running's a lot, we've got somewhere around 45% of his issues solved. 45% is a lot though and could certianly make him more effective.

[basedog]

I believe also that our wide receivers haven't been able to separate from defenders much so it makes passing accuracy a little harder. Lot of pressure with a QB seeing his receivers covered like a blanket versus a wide open receiver. Big difference in most cases.

[Matty Dispatch]

Not disagreeing, but I think you're kind of making an excuse that only encapsulates about 5% of Nick's issues. So between short WRs and running's a lot, we've got somewhere around 45% of his issues solved. 45% is a lot though and could certianly make him more effective.

I think it's a lot more than 5%. He pukes on the sideline every game, his arms are beat red from the abuse. Imagine running full speed into a brick wall, then get up call the play and try to hitting a moving target 15 yards downfield that's being covered by a defender. It's one thing to be a running QB who is trying to pick up a 1st down on 3rd & 3, it's another when you're the home run threat and trying to break one to the endzone every time. That's part of his game, and inaccuracy is a side effect. If you turn him into Tyler Russell it's really hard to imagine he's not a lot more accurate. But I'll deal with some wild throws because he's such a great athlete who can make so many more plays with his legs.

[biggun]

What everybody is glossing over is just how bad our secondary was last year despite having a very good pass rush! In the 4 games we lost, we were absolutely torched by our opponents, with Bama and Ole Miss both merely playing pitch and catch against our overmatched secondary. Our cb’s are again mediocre at best and our safeties get caught out of position far too often so while I am also feeling “wooly” about this season, the truth is our secondary will again cost us a couple of games again this year, if not more

[BogeyGolfer]

We should be a run first team with what we have coming back. It would be a shame to start throwing it all over the place just for the sake of throwing the football more. Having a solid running game will also give Coach Moorehead time to see and adjust to SEC defenses. We have to keep in mind he has yet to coach a down in the SEC.

[ShotgunDawg]

What everybody is glossing over is just how bad our secondary was last year despite having a very good pass rush! In the 4 games we lost, we were absolutely torched by our opponents, with Bama and Ole Miss both merely playing pitch and catch against our overmatched secondary. Our cb’s are again mediocre at best and our safeties get caught out of position far too often so while I am also feeling “wooly” about this season, the truth is our secondary will again cost us a couple of games again this year, if not more

Great point.

I would argue though, which teams on our schedule actually can pitch it and catch it well enough to exploit that?

Auburn
Bama
Ole Miss.

I don't any other team on our schedule that

[biggun]

Great point.

I would argue though, which teams on our schedule actually can pitch it and catch it well enough to exploit that?

Auburn
Bama
Ole Miss.

I don't any other team on our schedule that

Yep, don’t have to play Georgia, thank goodness, but the other 3 will have just as good passing attacks this year or maybe even better (Bama). However, I imagine Mullin will have Florida throwing early and often in Starkville and despite many bashing his play calling and his recruiting, he is excellent at exposing opponents weaknesses and our glaring and obvious shortcoming is our secondary which he will attack early and often.

[Todd4State]

What everybody is glossing over is just how bad our secondary was last year despite having a very good pass rush! In the 4 games we lost, we were absolutely torched by our opponents, with Bama and Ole Miss both merely playing pitch and catch against our overmatched secondary. Our cb’s are again mediocre at best and our safeties get caught out of position far too often so while I am also feeling “wooly” about this season, the truth is our secondary will again cost us a couple of games again this year, if not more

Some of that is because we blitzed a lot. I wouldn't say Ole Miss played pitch and catch- we held them to under 50% completion percentage. But the ones they connected on were explosive plays. Jordan Wilkins hurt as much as their passing did- we had two absolute busts in our run fits and that hurt us a lot.

So, if anything Shoop blitzing less and playing less man should help our secondary some.

[Todd4State]

Yep, don’t have to play Georgia, thank goodness, but the other 3 will have just as good passing attacks this year or maybe even better (Bama). However, I imagine Mullin will have Florida throwing early and often in Starkville and despite many bashing his play calling and his recruiting, he is excellent at exposing opponents weaknesses and our glaring and obvious shortcoming is our secondary which he will attack early and often.

I doubt it. He will do the same crap he always does in big games.

[thf24]

Yep, don?t have to play Georgia, thank goodness, but the other 3 will have just as good passing attacks this year or maybe even better (Bama). However, I imagine Mullin will have Florida throwing early and often in Starkville and despite many bashing his play calling and his recruiting, he is excellent at exposing opponents weaknesses and our glaring and obvious shortcoming is our secondary which he will attack early and often.

Are you talking about the same Mullen who would routinely pick up a few first downs against a weak rushing defense on the ground, then throw three straight incompletions? Maybe I?ve forgotten already, but I in no way remember Mullen being particularly good at exposing weaknesses compared to other offensive-minded coaches. Not unless the QB draw was a particular opponent?s weakness.

[Pollodawg]

Are you talking about the same Mullen who would routinely pick up a few first downs against a weak rushing defense on the ground, then throw three straight incompletions? Maybe I?ve forgotten already, but I in no way remember Mullen being particularly good at exposing weaknesses compared to other offensive-minded coaches. Not unless the QB draw was a particular opponent?s weakness.

Exactly. We just ran our base offense, and if we didn’t work, we just lost. End of story. I never once saw him change anything of any significance. I mean, he tried to run TR.

[Goldendawg]

We aren't going to throw the ball all over the place and we're going to throw to the backs more. There's not that big a risk increase. But the reward will be big. Mullen ran his minimalized playbook to perfection. But he was scared to do the things necessary to make us competitive with top teams. JoMo's record vs top teams won't ever be as bad as Mullen's. You have to take chances vs teams better than you. Mullen didn't. Screw him!

Dan did a lot of good things for State, but his record against ranked teams was not one of them. Hail JoMo and a higher ceiling.

[Percho]

The late but great Coach Darrel Royal once stated, "There are three things while passing and two of them are bad".

And the late but great Coach Pat Summit once stated, "Offense sells tickets but Defense wins games".

I think that was Woody Hayes Ohio State.

[Percho]

What everybody is glossing over is just how bad our secondary was last year despite having a very good pass rush! In the 4 games we lost, we were absolutely torched by our opponents, with Bama and Ole Miss both merely playing pitch and catch against our overmatched secondary. Our cb?s are again mediocre at best and our safeties get caught out of position far too often so while I am also feeling ?wooly? about this season, the truth is our secondary will again cost us a couple of games again this year, if not more

Does that count the missed illegal plays?

[dawgs]

We're all wooly about football, myself included, so I'm going to play devil's advocate, and you guys tell me why I'm wrong or if you agree.

Everyone agrees Moorhead will open up the offense and we'll pass more. Well, whether you want to give Don credit or not, his "safe" play calling helped us when it came to turnovers....and turnovers are a recipe for disaster in the SEC. Why should we not be slightly concerned that we're about to start throwing it a lot more with a QB that sits around 50% completions for his career?

Could more passing and more reads actually end up hurting the O due to potentially causing more turnovers?

What about all the games we lost because Dan refused to take any chances? How many times did we sit on the ball at the end of half when we were well within striking distance of at least a FG attempt? How many times did we repeatedly run the QB between the tackles against good defenses instead of forcing them to actually cover sideline to sideline (first half of bama 2014 being the most egregious example)?

[Ezsoil]

The wooliness in me says that while Mullen's offense limited turnovers in conventional situations, he probably added at least 3-4 over the course of a season due to boneheaded gimmicks that never worked (fake punts, etc.). He also wasn't without his share of 4-5 turnover blowouts despite safe playcalling.

As far as Fitz completion percentage, I'd like to think we're going to see that go up due to giving him bigger windows to throw into as a result of competent WR coaching. Hard for almost anyone to throw 65% when you barely have anyone who can get loose from even SWAC CB's on a consistent basis.


But yet if Mullen had called shorter routes rather than having an inexperienced QB force throws in the egg bowl, MSU wins by two touchdowns

[Ezsoil]

What everybody is glossing over is just how bad our secondary was last year despite having a very good pass rush! In the 4 games we lost, we were absolutely torched by our opponents, with Bama and Ole Miss both merely playing pitch and catch against our overmatched secondary. Our cb?s are again mediocre at best and our safeties get caught out of position far too often so while I am also feeling ?wooly? about this season, the truth is our secondary will again cost us a couple of games again this year, if not more


Brian Cole says ?not so fast my Friend?....

[biggun]

There is still some serious ?Dan Hate? around here and I somewhat get it. But honestly I really don?t.
Mullen took a floundering program that had been severely ?Croomed? and a disillusioned fan base due to having to endure 8 straight years of football futility (Liberty Bowl year was still brutal due to an awful and boring O) and quickly turned around the attitude of the team and fan base. Record sell out streak, winning record vs Ole Miss, 8 straight bowls, 9 wins in just his 2nd year including whipping national power Michigan and a year end Top 15 national ranking. I could go on and on about 5 weeks at #1, an Orange Bowl invite, hosting Gameday, Dak, etc but I don?t think some will care due to their blinding hate of Mullen.

Mullen expanded the stadium by consistently putting a quality product on the field every year sans 2016 which was a post Dak rebuild. So Why the bitter hate????

[Captain Falcon]

Had he won the Egg Bowl the feeling might be different. But he was totally disengaged and it cost us a rivalry game at home where we were heavily favored.

Everything was building to a big year for us in 2018, and he just bailed for a rebuilding job at another school before he got to coach what would?ve been his greatest team. And he left with barely a good bye.

Also, he?s a smug jerk. That has always been the case, we just don?t like it now that he?s not our jerk anymore.

[BrunswickDawg]

There is still some serious ?Dan Hate? around here and I somewhat get it. But honestly I really don?t.
Mullen took a floundering program that had been severely ?Croomed? and a disillusioned fan base due to having to endure 8 straight years of football futility (Liberty Bowl year was still brutal due to an awful and boring O) and quickly turned around the attitude of the team and fan base. Record sell out streak, winning record vs Ole Miss, 8 straight bowls, 9 wins in just his 2nd year including whipping national power Michigan and a year end Top 15 national ranking. I could go on and on about 5 weeks at #1, an Orange Bowl invite, hosting Gameday, Dak, etc but I don?t think some will care due to their blinding hate of Mullen.

Mullen expanded the stadium by consistently putting a quality product on the field every year sans 2016 which was a post Dak rebuild. So Why the bitter hate????

You normally don't start cussing your ex-wife until her lawyers take you to the cleaners either....

Seriously, there have been plenty of threads about what Dan did do for us. But, Dan did have shortcomings - many of which people were willing to ignore because of the positive (which you note in your post). People are excited because with the new staff and the team we have coming back, there are opportunities for us to overcome those shortcomings. JoMo will have ones of his own, but as of this moment, he has none.

[thf24]

There is still some serious ?Dan Hate? around here and I somewhat get it. But honestly I really don?t.
Mullen took a floundering program that had been severely ?Croomed? and a disillusioned fan base due to having to endure 8 straight years of football futility (Liberty Bowl year was still brutal due to an awful and boring O) and quickly turned around the attitude of the team and fan base. Record sell out streak, winning record vs Ole Miss, 8 straight bowls, 9 wins in just his 2nd year including whipping national power Michigan and a year end Top 15 national ranking. I could go on and on about 5 weeks at #1, an Orange Bowl invite, hosting Gameday, Dak, etc but I don?t think some will care due to their blinding hate of Mullen.

Mullen expanded the stadium by consistently putting a quality product on the field every year sans 2016 which was a post Dak rebuild. So Why the bitter hate????

I don't see any bitter/blinding hate in this thread. Maybe some marked resentment, which is to be expected after the way he left, regardless of the great job he did growing the program during his tenure. But it's mostly honest assessments of his weaknesses. I'd go so far as to say the most outrageous statement in the thread is yours that he was "excellent at exposing opponents' weaknesses"; that simply isn't true, at least judging by his 9 seasons with us.

[dawgs]

There is still some serious ?Dan Hate? around here and I somewhat get it. But honestly I really don?t.
Mullen took a floundering program that had been severely ?Croomed? and a disillusioned fan base due to having to endure 8 straight years of football futility (Liberty Bowl year was still brutal due to an awful and boring O) and quickly turned around the attitude of the team and fan base. Record sell out streak, winning record vs Ole Miss, 8 straight bowls, 9 wins in just his 2nd year including whipping national power Michigan and a year end Top 15 national ranking. I could go on and on about 5 weeks at #1, an Orange Bowl invite, hosting Gameday, Dak, etc but I don?t think some will care due to their blinding hate of Mullen.

Mullen expanded the stadium by consistently putting a quality product on the field every year sans 2016 which was a post Dak rebuild. So Why the bitter hate????

No hate, just a realistic look at his limitations. I think since bama 2014, it's been readily apparent that Mullen didn't have the balls to consistently win big games and the lack of a recruiting bump post-dak was indicative of his limitations as a recruiter. Funny thing with the crootin aspect is that Florida fans told us in 2009 how Dan nearly screwed up the Tebow recruiting and Meyer had to make a last minute save to keep him from going to bama. The fact that we didn't capitalize after 2014 is entirely on Dan. Dan can find undervalued talent and develop guys, but to win big, you at least need to have a top 10 class every once in awhile and consistently hang around in the top 15-20 other years.

As an in game coach, Dan is overly conservative and runs one of the most boring spread option systems out there. If it was 3rd and 5 or less, I bet we ran dak or fitz between the tackles 90% of the time since 2013. That works against la tech and vandy, but it doesn't work against bama or consistently against LSU and auburn, which is why we almost always won the games we should and lost the games we should. And how often would we sit on the ball at the end of the half when we were within striking distance of FG range and a couple time outs in our pocket?

And since bama 2014, he has flirted with any and all P5 openings that would listen, even inferior programs like Minnesota and Maryland. Seemed like every good season went out with a whimper because he'd be checked out working the coaching carousel instead of beating the shit out of OM and winning a bowl game.

Clearly his positives outweighed his negatives and he is an overall good coach, and I'm forever thankful for turning us around post-croom, but he had a couple of obvious, yet fixable flaws, but he refused to addressed those flaws, which imo likely meant we were perpetually stuck in a cycle of essentially 7-9 win seasons. There's obviously worse scenarios out there (croom), but when you can see the couple of fixable flaws that could take us from a 7-9 W program to a 8-11 W program and Dan continuously refused to work on those flaws, then it gets frustrating. Throw in the constant flirting with any and every HC opening, and I think most MSU fans are thankful for what Dan did for the program but ok with him moving on.

[Todd4State]

Had he won the Egg Bowl the feeling might be different. But he was totally disengaged and it cost us a rivalry game at home where we were heavily favored.

Everything was building to a big year for us in 2018, and he just bailed for a rebuilding job at another school before he got to coach what would?ve been his greatest team. And he left with barely a good bye.

Also, he?s a smug jerk. That has always been the case, we just don?t like it now that he?s not our jerk anymore.

If you coach at Mississippi State you must beat Ole Miss consistently. Dan does have a winning record against them- but completely checking out in that game not once but twice is inexcusable. He also lost the most important Egg Bowl in 2014 as well in terms of National prestige.

But after 2015 I had just completly lost faith in him and saw him for what he was. I personally would have told him to take the Maryland job if I was the AD because it was pretty obvious he didn't want to be here anymore at that time.

[Todd4State]

No hate, just a realistic look at his limitations. I think since bama 2014, it's been readily apparent that Mullen didn't have the balls to consistently win big games and the lack of a recruiting bump post-dak was indicative of his limitations as a recruiter. Funny thing with the crootin aspect is that Florida fans told us in 2009 how Dan nearly screwed up the Tebow recruiting and Meyer had to make a last minute save to keep him from going to bama. The fact that we didn't capitalize after 2014 is entirely on Dan. Dan can find undervalued talent and develop guys, but to win big, you at least need to have a top 10 class every once in awhile and consistently hang around in the top 15-20 other years.

As an in game coach, Dan is overly conservative and runs one of the most boring spread option systems out there. If it was 3rd and 5 or less, I bet we ran dak or fitz between the tackles 90% of the time since 2013. That works against la tech and vandy, but it doesn't work against bama or consistently against LSU and auburn, which is why we almost always won the games we should and lost the games we should. And how often would we sit on the ball at the end of the half when we were within striking distance of FG range and a couple time outs in our pocket?

And since bama 2014, he has flirted with any and all P5 openings that would listen, even inferior programs like Minnesota and Maryland. Seemed like every good season went out with a whimper because he'd be checked out working the coaching carousel instead of beating the shit out of OM and winning a bowl game.

Clearly his positives outweighed his negatives and he is an overall good coach, and I'm forever thankful for turning us around post-croom, but he had a couple of obvious, yet fixable flaws, but he refused to addressed those flaws, which imo likely meant we were perpetually stuck in a cycle of essentially 7-9 win seasons. There's obviously worse scenarios out there (croom), but when you can see the couple of fixable flaws that could take us from a 7-9 W program to a 8-11 W program and Dan continuously refused to work on those flaws, then it gets frustrating. Throw in the constant flirting with any and every HC opening, and I think most MSU fans are thankful for what Dan did for the program but ok with him moving on.

All of this^^^^

[dawgs]

Oh yeah, and how many freshmen RBs have we watching carve up defenses while kept a talented back on the bench for 2+ seasons cause he "couldn't learn pass blocking schemes"?

[Pit Bull]

Cant win SEC Championships unless you can run the ball successfully. A 60/40 run/pass percentage would be good. We have one outstanding RB, one up and coming big time RB, and another that can push for PT as well....so we're in good shape as long as the sled pushers up front can move people out of the way. I am still very concerned about our passing game as I did not see enough of an improvement as I thought we should have. Maybe Joe and his staff can help Fitz take that next step in passing accuracy.....if not, then Keyteon should be given a shot at it.

[viverlibre]

Fitz is a above average passer. His WR's hurt him a lot. Also, Jomo is smart enough to adjust to our strengths. He will not try to make a square peg fit a circle with the offense.

He's iffy over 20 years, he's at best an average passer, maybe below average on deep balls.

[Jack Lambert]

I don't think Passing was a concern for Mullen. He was the about the Run in RPO first

[Todd4State]

Oh yeah, and how many freshmen RBs have we watching carve up defenses while kept a talented back on the bench for 2+ seasons cause he "couldn't learn pass blocking schemes"?

If Dan is our coach we would be redshirting Guidry and Whop most likely while starting Jesse Jackson and Deddrick Thomas at outside WR.

[Really Clark?]

Had he won the Egg Bowl the feeling might be different. But he was totally disengaged and it cost us a rivalry game at home where we were heavily favored.

Everything was building to a big year for us in 2018, and he just bailed for a rebuilding job at another school before he got to coach what would?ve been his greatest team. And he left with barely a good bye.

Also, he?s a smug jerk. That has always been the case, we just don?t like it now that he?s not our jerk anymore.

Sorry, disengaged or not, Fitz doesn?t get hurt and we win the EB. KT fumbling wasn?t caused by Mullen. And we still nearly came back and won

[Really Clark?]

Oh yeah, and how many freshmen RBs have we watching carve up defenses while kept a talented back on the bench for 2+ seasons cause he "couldn't learn pass blocking schemes"?

Perkins ran the ball over 100 times as a true freshman, JRob was second leading rusher as freshman, Hill last year with a good back in Williams rushed the ball a lot as a freshman. The 2015 season was the biggest issue with Shumpert not building on a descent 2014 end of the year and Holloway. Should have pushed Williams up faster, did by the end of the year

[Schultzy]

Our safeties were undisciplined last year is why we got beat deep. They wanted to support the run when we already had a good front seven.

Plus our coaches barely played our best corner, Dantzler, in favor of upperclassmen. I have hope the days of watching some of our best players sit a lot is over...and I think it is so that’s encouraging.

[sleepy dawg]

I don't think Passing was a concern for Mullen. He was the about the Run in RPO first

Can you reword that? I don't understand what you're saying. Dan didn't really run an RPO offense. It was definitely a run first offense in a spread formation, but I would say it was much closer to a read option offense than RPO.

[dawgs]

I am still very concerned about our passing game as I did not see enough of an improvement as I thought we should have.

When have you seen what fitz can do throwing the ball in Moorhead's offense?

[Todd4State]

Perkins ran the ball over 100 times as a true freshman, JRob was second leading rusher as freshman, Hill last year with a good back in Williams rushed the ball a lot as a freshman. The 2015 season was the biggest issue with Shumpert not building on a descent 2014 end of the year and Holloway. Should have pushed Williams up faster, did by the end of the year

Aeris only got pushed up because Holloway got hurt.

[Todd4State]

Sorry, disengaged or not, Fitz doesn?t get hurt and we win the EB. KT fumbling wasn?t caused by Mullen. And we still nearly came back and won

Agree. 2015 was worse for me. I think what happened more last year is Fitz got hurt and Dan went overly conservative until he had no choice but to open it up.

[Really Clark?]

Aeris only got pushed up because Holloway got hurt.

I think that was Shump that got hurt, Holloway had touches in every game in 2015. Holloway missed games in 2014. And then Aeris I think wasn’t 100% during or after Bama game or he probably would have ended the year with more touches than Shump

[biggun]

No hate, just a realistic look at his limitations. I think since bama 2014, it's been readily apparent that Mullen didn't have the balls to consistently win big games and the lack of a recruiting bump post-dak was indicative of his limitations as a recruiter. Funny thing with the crootin aspect is that Florida fans told us in 2009 how Dan nearly screwed up the Tebow recruiting and Meyer had to make a last minute save to keep him from going to bama. The fact that we didn't capitalize after 2014 is entirely on Dan. Dan can find undervalued talent and develop guys, but to win big, you at least need to have a top 10 class every once in awhile and consistently hang around in the top 15-20 other years.

As an in game coach, Dan is overly conservative and runs one of the most boring spread option systems out there. If it was 3rd and 5 or less, I bet we ran dak or fitz between the tackles 90% of the time since 2013. That works against la tech and vandy, but it doesn't work against bama or consistently against LSU and auburn, which is why we almost always won the games we should and lost the games we should. And how often would we sit on the ball at the end of the half when we were within striking distance of FG range and a couple time outs in our pocket?

And since bama 2014, he has flirted with any and all P5 openings that would listen, even inferior programs like Minnesota and Maryland. Seemed like every good season went out with a whimper because he'd be checked out working the coaching carousel instead of beating the shit out of OM and winning a bowl game.

Clearly his positives outweighed his negatives and he is an overall good coach, and I'm forever thankful for turning us around post-croom, but he had a couple of obvious, yet fixable flaws, but he refused to addressed those flaws, which imo likely meant we were perpetually stuck in a cycle of essentially 7-9 win seasons. There's obviously worse scenarios out there (croom), but when you can see the couple of fixable flaws that could take us from a 7-9 W program to a 8-11 W program and Dan continuously refused to work on those flaws, then it gets frustrating. Throw in the constant flirting with any and every HC opening, and I think most MSU fans are thankful for what Dan did for the program but ok with him moving on.

Nice post, you nailed it. I was playing devil?s advocate mainly to see if our fans really think we can really do better than the Tax Slayer and Music City Bowl or should we think like Dan and accept our limitations and just be happy to be able to go to a bowl.

And I 110% agree that his flirting with other jobs, especially after Dak?s Last season really ****ed our recruiting. Furthermore, his either laziness or sincerely thinking MSU could not recruit on the national level, or both, put us behind the 8 ball in recruiting every damn year by never even trying to go after top out of state talent. Freeze exposed Dan but Joe is downright humiliating him!!!

Finally, his play calling during the final half of the 4th qtr vs Bama was the most conservative and pathetic that these eyes have ever seen!!!! Played to lose and lost. Still makes me sick to think we had Bama?s D on the ropes but instead of going for the jugular, Dan decided to basically to stop ourselves with his obsession of calling the QB dive regardless of down or distance. Ass awful!

[biggun]

Our safeties were undisciplined last year is why we got beat deep. They wanted to support the run when we already had a good front seven.

Plus our coaches barely played our best corner, Dantzler, in favor of upperclassmen. I have hope the days of watching some of our best players sit a lot is over...and I think it is so that’s encouraging.

100% Agree. Watching T Cleveland and C Rayford get torched week in and week out while Danztler and Peters sat just about did me in!!! With that being said, not 100% sure Peters is the answer, he also got beat far too many times and seemingly was in the trail position on just about every deep throw

[Ezsoil]

Aeris only got pushed up because Holloway got hurt.

Aeris had been building momentum but after the critical fumble at A&M, Dan went back to Shumpert even after Shumpert dropped a key 4th down pass.

[Ari Gold]

100% Agree. Watching T Cleveland and C Rayford get torched week in and week out while Danztler and Peters sat just about did me in!!! With that being said, not 100% sure Peters is the answer, he also got beat far too many times and seemingly was in the trail position on just about every deep throw

Believe it or not was told last year by coaches that Rayford would be graded out one of the best after every game. I’m not sure what they based this on.
Take that for what it’s worth .

So this tells me CR is better than the normal fan thinks he is... We just need him to be a average SEC CB this year

[thf24]

Believe it or not was told last year by coaches that Rayford would be graded out one of the best after every game. I’m not sure what they based this on.
Take that for what it’s worth .

So this tells me CR is better than the normal fan thinks he is... We just need him to be a average SEC CB this year

That's hard to believe as Rayford has appeared to get simply out-athleted on a seemingly regular basis thus far in his career. It seemed to me that he'd be playing the right technique and reading correctly much of the time, but he'd just get effortlessly run past despite it. As you imply though, we don't get paid to coach college football and probably don't have the full picture.

[biggun]

That's hard to believe as Rayford has appeared to get simply out-athleted on a seemingly regular basis thus far in his career. It seemed to me that he'd be playing the right technique and reading correctly much of the time, but he'd just get effortlessly run past despite it. As you imply though, we don't get paid to coach college football and probably don't have the full picture.


We def don’t know 1/100 of what the coaches know but just watching from the stands and watching both Cleveland and Rayford consistently getting torched while rarely, if ever, breaking up (INT - dream on) a pass is extremely hard to watch especially with superior athletes like Dantzler and Peters watching from the pines.

[Dawg61]

From watching a video or two on Jomo ?s passing philosophy, it seems like it will be more successful than Mullen?s. A lot of Mullen?s seemed to me it was ?beat your guy with your route and get open?. That works OK if you?re loaded with 5* studs at receiver. We didn?t and therefore never got separation. Jomo?s seems to create separation by design. Attack an area an make defenders make choices. Take the open choice. If they choose foolishly, burn them for a td. Assuming Fitz can read the open choices, I think his completion percentage will go up significantly.


Fix your phone please


It's apple's fault.. they broke it with IOS 11...
Turn Off Smart Punctuations in Settings/General/KeyBoard


To turn smart punctuation off, all you have to do is go to Settings > General > Keyboard, and then turn off the ?Smart Punctuation? toggle.
https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/1settings-1.pnghttps://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/2settings-2.png

[Dawg61]

Brian Cole says ?not so fast my Friend?....


There is still some serious ?Dan Hate? around here and I somewhat get it. But honestly I really don?t.
Mullen took a floundering program that had been severely ?Croomed? and a disillusioned fan base due to having to endure 8 straight years of football futility (Liberty Bowl year was still brutal due to an awful and boring O) and quickly turned around the attitude of the team and fan base. Record sell out streak, winning record vs Ole Miss, 8 straight bowls, 9 wins in just his 2nd year including whipping national power Michigan and a year end Top 15 national ranking. I could go on and on about 5 weeks at #1, an Orange Bowl invite, hosting Gameday, Dak, etc but I don?t think some will care due to their blinding hate of Mullen.

Mullen expanded the stadium by consistently putting a quality product on the field every year sans 2016 which was a post Dak rebuild. So Why the bitter hate????


Had he won the Egg Bowl the feeling might be different. But he was totally disengaged and it cost us a rivalry game at home where we were heavily favored.

Everything was building to a big year for us in 2018, and he just bailed for a rebuilding job at another school before he got to coach what would?ve been his greatest team. And he left with barely a good bye.

Also, he?s a smug jerk. That has always been the case, we just don?t like it now that he?s not our jerk anymore.


Fix your phone please


It's apple's fault.. they broke it with IOS 11...
Turn Off Smart Punctuations in Settings/General/KeyBoard


To turn smart punctuation off, all you have to do is go to Settings > General > Keyboard, and then turn off the ?Smart Punctuation? toggle.
https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/1settings-1.pnghttps://www.howtogeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/2settings-2.png

[Todd4State]

Believe it or not was told last year by coaches that Rayford would be graded out one of the best after every game. I’m not sure what they based this on.
Take that for what it’s worth .

So this tells me CR is better than the normal fan thinks he is... We just need him to be a average SEC CB this year

I wonder how much his special teams play factors into that grade? He is a good special teams player I'll give him that.

[Ari Gold]

I wonder how much his special teams play factors into that grade? He is a good special teams player I'll give him that.

None..