How bad did Mullen screw up the defense in 2012?

[Tbonewannabe]

This is from ESPN


Darius Slay, cornerback: A Pro Bowl cornerback and the NFL?s interceptions leader last season, Slay has turned into one of the top corners in the league. His ability to stick with almost any receiver in the league has allowed the Lions to be flexible with their defenses. He has the speed to play with anybody and the ball skills to be an elite corner.

We had this guy opposite from the Thorpe award winner. How do you screw up a defense that bad with that many NFL stars on it? I will never get over the 10 yard cushion we were giving with those 2 high level corners.

[Jack Lambert]

Where did Collins end up? The DC from 2014.

[BrunswickDawg]

Slay - Pro Bowler, top corner in the league
Banks - Thorpe Award
McKinney - LB - 2nd team All Pro in '16
Autry - Raiders starting DE
Preston Smith - Redskins starting DE
Boyd - played 3 years with Packers before injury ended career
Plus at least 8 NFL practice squad guys (Cam Lawerence, Kaleb Eulls, Nickoe, Skinner, Broomfield, Calhoun, Wells, Ryan Brown


Really an under rated D. Wasn't this the Chris Wilson/Geoff Collins Co-Coordinator season?

[BrunswickDawg]

Where did Collins end up? The DC from 2014.

Temple HC - went 7-6 and won a bowl this past year

[Prediction? Pain.]

This is from ESPN


Darius Slay, cornerback: A Pro Bowl cornerback and the NFL?s interceptions leader last season, Slay has turned into one of the top corners in the league. His ability to stick with almost any receiver in the league has allowed the Lions to be flexible with their defenses. He has the speed to play with anybody and the ball skills to be an elite corner.

We had this guy opposite from the Thorpe award winner. How do you screw up a defense that bad with that many NFL stars on it? I will never get over the 10 yard cushion we were giving with those 2 high level corners.

Putting aside the Sirmon disaster of 2016, our 2012 defense was probably the worst defense we had during Mullen's tenure. It wasn't nationally horrific like Sirmon's, but it set multiple statistical low marks among Mullen's other seasons (keeping in mind that Torbush and Diaz Round 2 were also lackluster compared to other seasons).

I totally agree that we should have been able to leverage Slay and Banks into far better results defensively. Not sure, though, how much of the blame is Mullen's and how much is Chris Wilson's, our DC in 2011 and 2012. Mullen demoted/forced out Wilson at the end of the season, so at least for his part, Mullen was dissatisfied with the results on the field as well. The fact that Collins immediately righted the ship -- our 2013 and 2014 defenses were much, much better -- makes me think that it was more Wilson than Mullen.


Where did Collins end up? The DC from 2014.

He's the head coach at Temple. Went 7 - 6 in his first year (which was last year). Temple had gone 10-3 the year before, though they returned less starters (10) than anyone else in their league. I'm interested to see how he does over the next few years. If he does well, I can see him being picked up by a low-to-mid-tier Power 5 school looking for a change.

[Really Clark?]

Slay - Pro Bowler, top corner in the league
Banks - Thorpe Award
McKinney - LB - 2nd team All Pro in '16
Autry - Raiders starting DE
Preston Smith - Redskins starting DE
Boyd - played 3 years with Packers before injury ended career
Plus at least 8 NFL practice squad guys (Cam Lawerence, Kaleb Eulls, Nickoe, Skinner, Broomfield, Calhoun, Wells, Ryan Brown


Really an under rated D. Wasn't this the Chris Wilson/Geoff Collins Co-Coordinator season?

Yes that was the Co-DC of Wilson and Collins

[Prediction? Pain.]

Slay - Pro Bowler, top corner in the league
Banks - Thorpe Award
McKinney - LB - 2nd team All Pro in '16
Autry - Raiders starting DE
Preston Smith - Redskins starting DE
Boyd - played 3 years with Packers before injury ended career
Plus at least 8 NFL practice squad guys (Cam Lawerence, Kaleb Eulls, Nickoe, Skinner, Broomfield, Calhoun, Wells, Ryan Brown


Really an under rated D. Wasn't this the Chris Wilson/Geoff Collins Co-Coordinator season?

Yeah, Collins was the co-DC in both 2011 and 2012. At the end of 2012, I think that Mullen promoted Collins to DC and offered to let Wilson stay on as the D-Line coach.

[Political Hack]

Let's not forget, Collins took a lateral move before going to Temple.

[BeastMan]

That team had a some good talent in spots but it also had a few really bad holes that hindered it. Let’s start up front. On paper DE looks great but that was a year before the light came on for Preston and Denico had an ok year. Combined for 8.5 sacks. Preston led the team with 4.5. The other 3 DL that got a ton of snaps (Dwayne Cherrimgton, Josh Boyd, Kakeb Eulls) we’re not pass rushers at all. Cherrington & Boyd were space eating nose tackles and often played opposite each other (which is a problem). Kaleb Eulls was one of the most unproductive DL in MSU history for his talent. Eulls basically started 4 years and had 4 career sacks. He DID NOT record a sack in 11 or 12. I’m actually willing to give Preston and Denico some benefit of the doubt as both were dbl teamed on passing downs due to zero threat of inside pressure. That MSU defense was 99th in the country in sacks.

Now to the backside. We all love Nickoe but the Egg Bowl heroics in 13 erased a lot of bad memories in 12 & 11 for Nickoe.
Truth is that after his Achilles in 10, he was never the same player athletically. He got burned consistently and took bad angles. Post injury he wasn’t a guy you leave in space. He was a junkyard dog that would decleat folks & that’s about it. Starting opposite him was Jay Hughes. Great guy and teammate but he had no business starting in the SEC. Post Achilles Nickoe and Hughes was the worst starting safety combo in the SEC.

What that led to was Wilson being scared to death of getting beat deep. He had 2 elite CBs but no pass rush and no over the top help. His best bet was to play Banks & Slay way off the ball in soft coverage keeping everything in front. I’m not saying Chris Wilson was some dynamic coaching mind but he didn’t do a terrible job with the personnel he had. You give that defense a healthy Nickoe and 1 interior disrupter and that’s a 10 win season easy.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Putting aside the Sirmon disaster of 2016, our 2012 defense was probably the worst defense we had during Mullen's tenure. It wasn't nationally horrific like Sirmon's, but it set multiple statistical low marks among Mullen's other seasons (keeping in mind that Torbush and Diaz Round 2 were also lackluster compared to other seasons).

I totally agree that we should have been able to leverage Slay and Banks into far better results defensively. Not sure, though, how much of the blame is Mullen's and how much is Chris Wilson's, our DC in 2011 and 2012. Mullen demoted/forced out Wilson at the end of the season, so at least for his part, Mullen was dissatisfied with the results on the field as well. The fact that Collins immediately righted the ship -- our 2013 and 2014 defenses were much, much better -- makes me think that it was more Wilson than Mullen.



He's the head coach at Temple. Went 7 - 6 in his first year (which was last year). Temple had gone 10-3 the year before, they they returned less starters (10) than anyone else in their league. I'm interested to see how he does over the next few years. If he does well, I can see him being picked up by a low-to-mid-tier Power 5 school looking for a change.

I'd say 2015 defense was worse than 12. Idk the numbers but neither were very good and both were micro managed by Danny 2 gloves.

I just loved all the excuses from the Mullenites that it wasnt his fault we literally had a new DC every season. When Collins left it was bc he was sick of Dan.

He walked in the coaches office and said im out i've been mf'd for the last time and he hasnt been back in starkville since. He was the best DC we had and Mullen wouldnt let him do his job even in 2014 the 1A/1B shit was all Mullen. Former player told me Mullen called defensive plays in 2016

[Political Hack]

That team had a some good talent in spots but it also had a few really bad holes that hindered it. Let’s start up front. On paper DE looks great but that was a year before the light came on for Preston and Denico had an ok year. Combined for 8.5 sacks. Preston led the team with 4.5. The other 3 DL that got a ton of snaps (Dwayne Cherrimgton, Josh Boyd, Kakeb Eulls) we’re not pass rushers at all. Cherrington & Boyd were space eating nose tackles and often played opposite each other (which is a problem). Kaleb Eulls was one of the most unproductive DL in MSU history for his talent. Eulls basically started 4 years and had 4 career sacks. He DID NOT record a sack in 11 or 12. I’m actually willing to give Preston and Denico some benefit of the doubt as both were dbl teamed on passing downs due to zero threat of inside pressure. That MSU defense was 99th in the country in sacks.

Now to the backside. We all love Nickoe but the Egg Bowl heroics in 13 erased a lot of bad memories in 12 & 11 for Nickoe.
Truth is that after his Achilles in 10, he was never the same player athletically. He got burned consistently and took bad angles. Post injury he wasn’t a guy you leave in space. He was a junkyard dog that would decleat folks & that’s about it. Starting opposite him was Jay Hughes. Great guy and teammate but he had no business starting in the SEC. Post Achilles Nickoe and Hughes was the worst starting safety combo in the SEC.

What that led to was Wilson being scared to death of getting beat deep. He had 2 elite CBs but no pass rush and no over the top help. His best bet was to play Banks & Slay way off the ball in soft coverage keeping everything in front. I’m not saying Chris Wilson was some dynamic coaching mind but he didn’t do a terrible job with the personnel he had. You give that defense a healthy Nickoe and 1 interior disrupter and that’s a 10 win season easy.

It's hard to argue scheme because we're not sure what it would've looked like otherwise, but I think you could say that he didn't get enough out of that DL. They should've been mauling people.

[BuckyIsAB****]

That team had a some good talent in spots but it also had a few really bad holes that hindered it. Let’s start up front. On paper DE looks great but that was a year before the light came on for Preston and Denico had an ok year. Combined for 8.5 sacks. Preston led the team with 4.5. The other 3 DL that got a ton of snaps (Dwayne Cherrimgton, Josh Boyd, Kakeb Eulls) we’re not pass rushers at all. Cherrington & Boyd were space eating nose tackles and often played opposite each other (which is a problem). Kaleb Eulls was one of the most unproductive DL in MSU history for his talent. Eulls basically started 4 years and had 4 career sacks. He DID NOT record a sack in 11 or 12. I’m actually willing to give Preston and Denico some benefit of the doubt as both were dbl teamed on passing downs due to zero threat of inside pressure. That MSU defense was 99th in the country in sacks.

Now to the backside. We all love Nickoe but the Egg Bowl heroics in 13 erased a lot of bad memories in 12 & 11 for Nickoe.
Truth is that after his Achilles in 10, he was never the same player athletically. He got burned consistently and took bad angles. Post injury he wasn’t a guy you leave in space. He was a junkyard dog that would decleat folks & that’s about it. Starting opposite him was Jay Hughes. Great guy and teammate but he had no business starting in the SEC. Post Achilles Nickoe and Hughes was the worst starting safety combo in the SEC.

What that led to was Wilson being scared to death of getting beat deep. He had 2 elite CBs but no pass rush and no over the top help. His best bet was to play Banks & Slay way off the ball in soft coverage keeping everything in front. I’m not saying Chris Wilson was some dynamic coaching mind but he didn’t do a terrible job with the personnel he had. You give that defense a healthy Nickoe and 1 interior disrupter and that’s a 10 win season easy.

Mullen demanded the 10 yard cushion. Its one thing to do it but its another to do it literally every single snap. Teams could have thrown 10 yard outs all game long and we wouldve let them.

''Bend but dont break'' straight from the Mullen bible

[Jack Lambert]

Let's not forget, Collins took a lateral move before going to Temple.

I thought Collins went to Florida? Yeah that's right.

[TrapGame]

Let's not forget, Collins took a lateral move before going to Temple.

And isn't Temple's defense supposed to be pretty good? I think Mullen put his nose in the tent one too many times with Collins.

[Really Clark?]

I'd say 2015 defense was worse than 12. Idk the numbers but neither were very good and both were micro managed by Danny 2 gloves.

I just loved all the excuses from the Mullenites that it wasnt his fault we literally had a new DC every season. When Collins left it was bc he was sick of Dan.

He walked in the coaches office and said im out i've been mf'd for the last time and he hasnt been back in starkville since. He was the best DC we had and Mullen wouldnt let him do his job even in 2014 the 1A/1B shit was all Mullen. Former player told me Mullen called defensive plays in 2016

Collins and the staff came up with the 1A/B stuff because of the number of snaps offenses were running had increased so much with the HUNH. Even Bama had to adjust substitutions differently. That was NOT just a Mullen idea. And you dang right Mullen started calling some defense in 2016, Sirmon lost that right. I remember that being brought up during the season and wasn’t nobody complaining about Mullen taking over some of that crap from Sirmon

[BrunswickDawg]

It's hard to argue scheme because we're not sure what it would've looked like otherwise, but I think you could say that he didn't get enough out of that DL. They should've been mauling people.

It may not be scheme as much as how it was implemented - 2013 -2014 we still had a core of the same players and the D looked totally different. Mckinney, Preston Smith, Calhoun, Hughes, Eulls, Wells, Ryan Brown. I think Wilson and Sirmon were kind of cut from the same cloth - neither knew how to use the scheme to create an attack oriented D (and were probably playing to Dan as well). Manny and Geoff took some of the same players and scheme and were far better.

[bulldawg28]

It's hard to argue scheme because we're not sure what it would've looked like otherwise, but I think you could say that he didn't get enough out of that DL. They should've been mauling people.

Yep, they underperformed big time.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Collins and the staff came up with the 1A/B stuff because of the number of snaps offenses were running had increased so much with the HUNH. Even Bama had to adjust substitutions differently. That was NOT just a Mullen idea. And you dang right Mullen started calling some defense in 2016, Sirmon lost that right. I remember that being brought up during the season and wasn’t nobody complaining about Mullen taking over some of that crap from Sirmon

Sirmon never had the right. Everything we did from the plays to how we come out of the tunnel was Mullen micro managed. Nobody wanted to work with him. The proof is in the pudding.

A ''staff idea'' under Mullen was a Mullen idea. Mullen has his country club and if you aint in it you are going to be thrown under the bus.

[BuckyIsAB****]

We were literally the only team in the country that did hockey style substitutions and we have been the only one since. It didnt work. Just like a lot of other shit Mullen did

[Liverpooldawg]

That team had a some good talent in spots but it also had a few really bad holes that hindered it. Let’s start up front. On paper DE looks great but that was a year before the light came on for Preston and Denico had an ok year. Combined for 8.5 sacks. Preston led the team with 4.5. The other 3 DL that got a ton of snaps (Dwayne Cherrimgton, Josh Boyd, Kakeb Eulls) we’re not pass rushers at all. Cherrington & Boyd were space eating nose tackles and often played opposite each other (which is a problem). Kaleb Eulls was one of the most unproductive DL in MSU history for his talent. Eulls basically started 4 years and had 4 career sacks. He DID NOT record a sack in 11 or 12. I’m actually willing to give Preston and Denico some benefit of the doubt as both were dbl teamed on passing downs due to zero threat of inside pressure. That MSU defense was 99th in the country in sacks.

Now to the backside. We all love Nickoe but the Egg Bowl heroics in 13 erased a lot of bad memories in 12 & 11 for Nickoe.
Truth is that after his Achilles in 10, he was never the same player athletically. He got burned consistently and took bad angles. Post injury he wasn’t a guy you leave in space. He was a junkyard dog that would decleat folks & that’s about it. Starting opposite him was Jay Hughes. Great guy and teammate but he had no business starting in the SEC. Post Achilles Nickoe and Hughes was the worst starting safety combo in the SEC.

What that led to was Wilson being scared to death of getting beat deep. He had 2 elite CBs but no pass rush and no over the top help. His best bet was to play Banks & Slay way off the ball in soft coverage keeping everything in front. I’m not saying Chris Wilson was some dynamic coaching mind but he didn’t do a terrible job with the personnel he had. You give that defense a healthy Nickoe and 1 interior disrupter and that’s a 10 win season easy.

Yep, great corners, but the safety play was ….lacking. That plus little pass rush.....not a good defense.

[TrapGame]

We were literally the only team in the country that did hockey style substitutions and we have been the only one since. It didnt work. Just like a lot of other shit Mullen did

Wasn't Mullen's fault, not enough strain.*

[BuckyIsAB****]

Yep, great corners, but the safety play was ?.lacking. That plus little pass rush.....not a good defense.

We had NFL DL, starting NFL LB and 2 NFL corners. I dont care if I was playing safety we should have been better

[msu15]

Having 2 nose tackles starting at DT(Cherrington and Boyd) and a DT starting at DE(Eulls) was a massive hindrance.

[Liverpooldawg]

We had NFL DL, starting NFL LB and 2 NFL corners. I dont care if I was playing safety we should have been better

If you, or me, had been playing safety it would have been way worse. Football is a team game. That is especially true on defense.

[Really Clark?]

Sirmon never had the right. Everything we did from the plays to how we come out of the tunnel was Mullen micro managed. Nobody wanted to work with him. The proof is in the pudding.

A ''staff idea'' under Mullen was a Mullen idea. Mullen has his country club and if you aint in it you are going to be thrown under the bus.

That?s completely incorrect on Sirmon. He was calling plays and it got bad. And that?s not just me saying something to disagree. And Sirmon last year at Louisville is also proof he sucked as a play caller.

Mullen did NOT come up with the 1A/B stuff on his own. That?s not true either. He did instruct them and he brainstormed with the staff something to try and offset the HUHN. This was discussed adnausem during that season. But Collins had his hand in that idea.

There is enough stupid stuff you can lay at Mullen?s feet but don?t try and rewrite history. Remember Diaz called a stupid defense that we got scorched on and Dan told him mic?ed up ?Don?t make me take over calling defense as well?. Dan was not calling defensive plays like you are trying to state, but he would chew on coaches about play calls. Heck he ever more lit up Hev in a game last year. Things get said and he made dumb calls over the years but don?t lay all the defensive calls on him. It?s just not factual. It?s like people started blaming Henderson for some of the offensive issues in the CWS, that was Gotro side of the ball

[Todd4State]

2015 was by far Dan's most wasted season because of his stubbornness. The stats are irrelevant. He had Holloway up the middle, Hevesy's weak o-line, redshirted Martinas Rankin, had bend and break defense starring Zach Jackson, Torrey Dale, and Kivon Coman- who was the safety version of TJ Mawhinney. Place kicker with zero range and fair catch every punt in SEC play. Oh yeah and he wasted the Egg Bowl Dak's senior year because he was shopping himself around to Miami. Only to be followed up with blowing a Sugar Bowl bid for the Belk Bowl and then you had Stricklin trying to convince everyone to go to the Belk Bowl after that mess.

[TrapGame]

2015 was by far Dan's most wasted season because of his stubbornness. The stats are irrelevant. He had Holloway up the middle, Hevesy's weak o-line, redshirted Martinas Rankin, had bend and break defense starring Zach Jackson, Torrey Dale, and Kivon Coman- who was the safety version of TJ Mawhinney. Place kicker with zero range and fair catch every punt in SEC play. Oh yeah and he wasted the Egg Bowl Dak's senior year because he was shopping himself around to Miami. Only to be followed up with blowing a Sugar Bowl bid for the Belk Bowl and then you had Stricklin trying to convince everyone to go to the Belk Bowl after that mess.

He and Diaz were a package deal to Miami before UGA fired Richt. Once again whoring himself out cost us an EB.

[BuckyIsAB****]

If you, or me, had been playing safety it would have been way worse. Football is a team game. That is especially true on defense.

You dont have to tell me that. But if you wanna blame that defense entirely on our safeties then I cant help you.

[BuckyIsAB****]

That?s completely incorrect on Sirmon. He was calling plays and it got bad. And that?s not just me saying something to disagree. And Sirmon last year at Louisville is also proof he sucked as a play caller.

Mullen did NOT come up with the 1A/B stuff on his own. That?s not true either. He did instruct them and he brainstormed with the staff something to try and offset the HUHN. This was discussed adnausem during that season. But Collins had his hand in that idea.

There is enough stupid stuff you can lay at Mullen?s feet but don?t try and rewrite history. Remember Diaz called a stupid defense that we got scorched on and Dan told him mic?ed up ?Don?t make me take over calling defense as well?. Dan was not calling defensive plays like you are trying to state, but he would chew on coaches about play calls. Heck he ever more lit up Hev in a game last year. Things get said and he made dumb calls over the years but don?t lay all the defensive calls on him. It?s just not factual. It?s like people started blaming Henderson for some of the offensive issues in the CWS, that was Gotro side of the ball

This was from a guy who played DL on the 2014 and 16 team. You can go argue with him if you want.

Collins left bc Mullen constantly ripped on him and threw him under the bus. Tried to tell him how to do his job. Sirmon was a yes man and was going to do whatever Mullen told him too and was just fine taking the blame if shit went sideways because Mullen got his foot in the door.

Even if you're right and the former player is wrong, we were still the only team to do the stupidass 1A/1B shit and have been the only one since. That tells me it was a Mullen deal. He knows more than everyone else does

[TrapGame]

I think Mullen thought Sirmon was a 2* diamond in the rough DC that he was going to transform into a 5* superstar. He wanted his own coaching tree like other big time football coaches.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I think Mullen thought Sirmon was a 2* diamond in the rough DC that he was going to transform into a 5* superstar. He wanted his own coaching tree like other big time football coaches.

More like he got a guy he knew he would be a lapdog and he could push around. Hence why we had to hire him bc no other DC wanted to work with him.

To Mullen's credit after Cohen got the AD job and put his lazy ass back to work he did get Grantham and let him do his thing

[TrapGame]

More like he got a guy he knew he would be a lapdog and he could push around. Hence why we had to hire him bc no other DC wanted to work with him.

To Mullen's credit after Cohen got the AD job and put his lazy ass back to work he did get Grantham and let him do his thing

Mullen loves to have his ego stroked. That's why he won't break up the Country Club.

[Really Clark?]

This was from a guy who played DL on the 2014 and 16 team. You can go argue with him if you want.

Collins left bc Mullen constantly ripped on him and threw him under the bus. Tried to tell him how to do his job. Sirmon was a yes man and was going to do whatever Mullen told him too and was just fine taking the blame if shit went sideways because Mullen got his foot in the door.

Even if you're right and the former player is wrong, we were still the only team to do the stupidass 1A/1B shit and have been the only one since. That tells me it was a Mullen deal. He knows more than everyone else does

Our scoring defense national rank from 2010-2017...21, 16, 34, 33, 23 (1A/B year), 36, 93 (Sirmon year) and 26th. Now you tell me which year is out of place during that stretch. And if you want to go down the road that it was all Mullen’s doing on defense as well, that pretty impressive run of defenses from an HC/OC to also handle defensive duties as well.

I would have ripped Collins for the EB performance as well when he checked out for Florida. Not publicly throw him under the bus but lit him up.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Mullen loves to have his ego stroked. That's why he won't break up the Country Club.

Exactly. We're lucky UT and UF shit the bed and tried to hire him or we'd be stuck with him in 2018. We'd lose at bama and he would shut it down again

[BuckyIsAB****]

Our scoring defense national rank from 2010-2017...21, 16, 34, 33, 23 (1A/B year), 36, 93 (Sirmon year) and 26th. Now you tell me which year is out of place during that stretch. And if you want to go down the road that it was all Mullen’s doing on defense as well, that pretty impressive run of defenses from an HC/OC to also handle defensive duties as well.

I would have ripped Collins for the EB performance as well when he checked out for Florida. Not publicly throw him under the bus but lit him up.

Collins was sick of Mullen way before the Egg bowl in 2014. That was just the tipping point.

You're also making my point, Mullen called defensive plays in 2016 and we were exceptionally shitty. Sirmon was a yes man and didnt care he was just a figurehead.

[Really Clark?]

Collins was sick of Mullen way before the Egg bowl in 2014. That was just the tipping point.

You're also making my point, Mullen called defensive plays in 2016 and we were exceptionally shitty. Sirmon was a yes man and didnt care he was just a figurehead.

How can you say Mullen called defensive plays as well and talk about ALL of those other years but only mention Sirmon year as a base of how bad it was? That makes no sense. Mullen didn’t call defenses, all of the years go to the DC. Sirmon was so bad that by Kentucky/Samford games they had to make changes. My goodness the one crapstacular year with Sirmon makes your point that Dan was calling all of those other years as well? Come on dude. What was Louisville? 31st with Grantham and 70th with Sirmon...I think Sirmon is common denominator of who sucks.

[TrapGame]

Collins was sick of Mullen way before the Egg bowl in 2014. That was just the tipping point.

You're also making my point, Mullen called defensive plays in 2016 and we were exceptionally shitty. Sirmon was a yes man and didnt care he was just a figurehead.

I can totally see that. Richie Brown said Sirmon was absolutely clueless.

[BuckyIsAB****]

How can you say Mullen called defensive plays as well and talk about ALL of those other years but only mention Sirmon year as a base of how bad it was? That makes no sense. Mullen didn’t call defenses, all of the years go to the DC. Sirmon was so bad that by Kentucky/Samford games they had to make changes. My goodness the one crapstacular year with Sirmon makes your point that Dan was calling all of those other years as well? Come on dude. What was Louisville? 31st with Grantham and 70th with Sirmon...I think Sirmon is common denominator of who sucks.

The point I was trying to make is that Mullen micro managed everything. 16 may have been the only year he did call some defensive plays but he was meddling every single year.

Whether it was who was playing on defense or what colors we wore it was all Mullen. That was my point. It is funny the one year that he did take over defensive plays was the worst year we have ever had arguably on defense.

A head coach trying to call offensive plays, defensive plays and running the clock is probably an asshole

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

That's why he won't break up the Country Club.

But Foley and the HBC won’t lose one minute of sleep breaking them up. Can ScoobaDawg put up a bet...the first one fired from Florida out of Heavy, Gonzo, Stricklin, and Marlin?

[Todd4State]

The point I was trying to make is that Mullen micro managed everything. 16 may have been the only year he did call some defensive plays but he was meddling every single year.

Whether it was who was playing on defense or what colors we wore it was all Mullen. That was my point. It is funny the one year that he did take over defensive plays was the worst year we have ever had arguably on defense.

A head coach trying to call offensive plays, defensive plays and running the clock is probably an asshole

And don't forget special teams.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

Nm

[RocketDawg]

Putting aside the Sirmon disaster of 2016, our 2012 defense was probably the worst defense we had during Mullen's tenure. It wasn't nationally horrific like Sirmon's, but it set multiple statistical low marks among Mullen's other seasons (keeping in mind that Torbush and Diaz Round 2 were also lackluster compared to other seasons).

I totally agree that we should have been able to leverage Slay and Banks into far better results defensively. Not sure, though, how much of the blame is Mullen's and how much is Chris Wilson's, our DC in 2011 and 2012. Mullen demoted/forced out Wilson at the end of the season, so at least for his part, Mullen was dissatisfied with the results on the field as well. The fact that Collins immediately righted the ship -- our 2013 and 2014 defenses were much, much better -- makes me think that it was more Wilson than Mullen.



He's the head coach at Temple. Went 7 - 6 in his first year (which was last year). Temple had gone 10-3 the year before, though they returned less starters (10) than anyone else in their league. I'm interested to see how he does over the next few years. If he does well, I can see him being picked up by a low-to-mid-tier Power 5 school looking for a change.

Haha. Good way of putting it. Will Sirmon be returning to Louisville this year?

Ole Miss perhaps?

[RocketDawg]

Let's not forget, Collins took a lateral move before going to Temple.

Didn't he go to Florida State?

[Really Clark?]

Didn't he go to Florida State?

Florida

[Todd4State]

Haha. Good way of putting it. Will Sirmon be returning to Louisville this year?

Ole Miss perhaps?

I thought I heard Louisville fired him and he landed at Cal-Berkley.

[Really Clark?]

I thought I heard Louisville fired him and he landed at Cal-Berkley.

Correct...LB coach and assistant HC

[Bothrops]

That team had a some good talent in spots but it also had a few really bad holes that hindered it. Let?s start up front. On paper DE looks great but that was a year before the light came on for Preston and Denico had an ok year. Combined for 8.5 sacks. Preston led the team with 4.5. The other 3 DL that got a ton of snaps (Dwayne Cherrimgton, Josh Boyd, Kakeb Eulls) we?re not pass rushers at all. Cherrington & Boyd were space eating nose tackles and often played opposite each other (which is a problem). Kaleb Eulls was one of the most unproductive DL in MSU history for his talent. Eulls basically started 4 years and had 4 career sacks. He DID NOT record a sack in 11 or 12. I?m actually willing to give Preston and Denico some benefit of the doubt as both were dbl teamed on passing downs due to zero threat of inside pressure. That MSU defense was 99th in the country in sacks.

Now to the backside. We all love Nickoe but the Egg Bowl heroics in 13 erased a lot of bad memories in 12 & 11 for Nickoe.
Truth is that after his Achilles in 10, he was never the same player athletically. He got burned consistently and took bad angles. Post injury he wasn?t a guy you leave in space. He was a junkyard dog that would decleat folks & that?s about it. Starting opposite him was Jay Hughes. Great guy and teammate but he had no business starting in the SEC. Post Achilles Nickoe and Hughes was the worst starting safety combo in the SEC.

What that led to was Wilson being scared to death of getting beat deep. He had 2 elite CBs but no pass rush and no over the top help. His best bet was to play Banks & Slay way off the ball in soft coverage keeping everything in front. I?m not saying Chris Wilson was some dynamic coaching mind but he didn?t do a terrible job with the personnel he had. You give that defense a healthy Nickoe and 1 interior disrupter and that?s a 10 win season easy.

Nickoe was still a ball hawk after his injury. The guy had a great talent for knowing where the ball was going to go. Other than that, he was a shell of himself post injury.

[BiscuitEater]

How bad did Mullen screw up the defense in 2012?

Dan could NOT keep a DC. Think we had 6 different in 9 years and that includes Manny Diaz twice. Think he FINALLY found one he could work with in Grantham .. and then he 'eloped' off to Florida with him.

Think there were only 2 times in the entire 9 year tenure where a DC was there for more than one season!

[BrunswickDawg]

I can't believe Dan made it thru the UGA and AU games last year without saying something like "I'm comfortable with where the offense has been the last two weeks - but the defense needs to clean things up. We will work on that." Grantham might have body slammed him thru the podium if he had. I give it 6 games at UF before Two Gloves is backing that bus up over the defense.

[Really Clark?]

Dan could NOT keep a DC. Think we had 6 different in 9 years and that includes Manny Diaz twice. Think he FINALLY found one he could work with in Grantham .. and then he 'eloped' off to Florida with him.

Think there were only 2 times in the entire 9 year tenure where a DC was there for more than one season!

Diaz was hired away to a bigger program, Collins was hired away to a bigger program, nobody complained when Dan got rid of Torbush, Wilson or Sirmon, nearly every single poster in this board thought that he had to get rid of those DC at the time. Don’t change history and rewrite what was going on with those changes.

[Liverpooldawg]

You dont have to tell me that. But if you wanna blame that defense entirely on our safeties then I cant help you.

Well, your post said I did. Safety play and lack of a pass rush WAS what was wrong with that defense. That is a deadly combination. It was also the reason for the big cushions the corners had to give.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Well, your post said I did. Safety play and lack of a pass rush WAS what was wrong with that defense. That is a deadly combination. It was also the reason for the big cushions the corners had to give.

Ahh. I vote you for dons next DC. You dont have to play your corners the same depth every single snap bc you think your safeties suck and your DL sucks. Especially when they both were NFL players

[BiscuitEater]

Diaz was hired away to a bigger program, Collins was hired away to a bigger program, nobody complained when Dan got rid of Torbush, Wilson or Sirmon, nearly every single poster in this board thought that he had to get rid of those DC at the time. Don’t change history and rewrite what was going on with those changes.

Please tell me where in my post I "changed history." Dan was the HC and hired EVERY single DC, good AND bad. Yea, some were hired away BUT that doesn't change these facts ..

(FACT) Dan could NOT keep a DC. (FACT) Think we had 6 different in 9 years and that includes Manny Diaz twice. (FACT) Think he FINALLY found one he could work with in Grantham .. and then he 'eloped' off to Florida with him.

(FACT) Think there were only 2 times in the entire 9 year tenure where a DC was there for more than one season!

(FACT) Dan HIRED Torbush, Wilson AND Sirmon.

[Goldendawg]

I don't remember the exact games or the direct drives, but I remember you could feel the momentum of the game shift when we put in the "1b" defense the year we tried to run the infamous "1a/1b" defensive schemes. I also remember our opponent (s) immediately having a long drive down the field for a major shift in field position or a TD. We were not bama or AU with the depth to do this and it was a failure as I remember. Everyone with a little knowledge of football could tell when we subbed like a shift in a hockey game.

[Really Clark?]

Please tell me where in my post I "changed history." Dan was the HC and hired EVERY single DC, good AND bad. Yea, some were hired away BUT that doesn't change these facts ..

(FACT) Dan could NOT keep a DC. (FACT) Think we had 6 different in 9 years and that includes Manny Diaz twice. (FACT) Think he FINALLY found one he could work with in Grantham .. and then he 'eloped' off to Florida with him.

(FACT) Think there were only 2 times in the entire 9 year tenure where a DC was there for more than one season!

(FACT) Dan HIRED Torbush, Wilson AND Sirmon.

Your posted acted like he got rid of every DC and that wasn’t the case. And the ones he did run off, the fan base agreed with making that change. That’s what I mean by your post changing what happened. Saban has changed OC like 4 times since the end of 2016. Some he made the change, some was hired away same thing but you wouldn’t say he was the cause of all of the changes. That was what was insinuated with your original post

[BiscuitEater]

Your posted acted like he got rid of every DC and that wasn?t the case. And the ones he did run off, the fan base agreed with making that change. That?s what I mean by your post changing what happened. Saban has changed OC like 4 times since the end of 2016. Some he made the change, some was hired away same thing but you wouldn?t say he was the cause of all of the changes. That was what was insinuated with your original post

Nope, I didn't insinuate that at all. Lack of continuity at the DC under Dan 'negatively impacted' the MSU defense. Mullen is an OFFENSIVE coach and has to have a good defense to win games. The past nine years are proof! Where did I say he got rid of ANY DC?

[Really Clark?]

Nope, I didn't insinuate that at all. Lack of continuity at the DC under Dan 'negatively impacted' the MSU defense. Mullen is an OFFENSIVE coach and has to have a good defense to win games. The past nine years are proof! Where did I say he got rid of ANY DC?

?Dan could NOT keep a DC.? That was your first sentence. Please point to the DC he should have kept, if he could have. How could he keep the ones leaving for bigger programs? How could he afford to keep DC that wasn?t working?

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

?Dan could NOT keep a DC.? That was your first sentence. Please point to the DC he should have kept, if he could have. How could he keep the ones leaving for bigger programs? How could he afford to keep DC that wasn?t working?

Maybe the DCs that left on their own accord knew Mullen was a prick faced asshole and left before they became permanently attached to a 1A/1B bend but don’t break philosophy as a DC?

[BiscuitEater]

Dan could NOT keep a DC. That was your first sentence. Please point to the DC he should have kept, if he could have. How could he keep the ones leaving for bigger programs? How could he afford to keep DC that wasn?t working?

Please go read this .. "Why do Mississippi State's defensive coordinators keep leaving?" LINK (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/mississippi-state-football/mississippi-states-defensive-coordinators-keep-leaving/)

It was written OVER two years ago AND BEFORE Mullen hired TWO MORE DCs. And, NO, I didn't write it!! I stated some simple FACTS .. in the nine years Mullen was the HC at MSU .. we ONLY had 2 years with the SAME DC as the previous year. IT negatively impacted the MSU Defense.

[Really Clark?]

Please go read this .. "Why do Mississippi State's defensive coordinators keep leaving?" LINK (https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/mississippi-state-football/mississippi-states-defensive-coordinators-keep-leaving/)

It was written OVER two years ago AND BEFORE Mullen hired TWO MORE DCs. And, NO, I didn't write it!! I stated some simple FACTS .. in the nine years Mullen was the HC at MSU .. we ONLY had 2 years with the SAME DC as the previous year. IT negatively impacted the MSU Defense.

Answer the question I posed then, who should have Mullen kept that he got rid of. Wilson was on his 2nd when he told him to look elsewhere...so we should have kept him for continuity. Sirmon should have been kept for continuity? Your point while true is also an obtuse argument.

[Really Clark?]

Maybe the DCs that left on their own accord knew Mullen was a prick faced asshole and left before they became permanently attached to a 1A/1B bend but don’t break philosophy as a DC?

Mullen didn’t come up with the 1A/B crap. That’s was argued when they did it and it’s true today. That was a staff deal with the defensive coaches as well. Mullen didn’t create that whole thing. They wanted a way to combat the HUNH. If we had the horses or streamlined it with smaller amount of personnel changes it might have worked much better. And the defense wasn’t bad anyway.

Diaz left on his own and just happened to get Texas and Miami gig? Collins just got lucky and fell up to the Florida job? Get out with that.

There are more than enough crap Dan did to complain about but at least be accurate all around