On Henderson, this just one wag's opinion...

[Rick Cleveland]

https://mississippitoday.org/2018/06/13/henderson-has-earned-the-permanent-job-at-state/

[ChillOutDog]

Why even go here? Those that disagree have to look unseemly when this debate is brought up.

Let?s enjoy this season for what it is and do what?s best for the long term benefit of MSU baseball. We can evaluate all candidates on merit, not ?muh feels? and a few weeks of results in a game where the ball can bounce your way a lot more than a sport like football.

The question is would your article be the same if Elijah MacNamee was a few centimeters under the ball against FSU. If yes, then okay, if no then step back and reevaluate your position and take a look at LSU football currently as an example of what COULD happen.

[msstate7]

Why even go here? Those that disagree have to look unseemly when this debate is brought up.

Let?s enjoy this season for what it is and do what?s best for the long term benefit of MSU baseball. We can evaluate all candidates on merit, not ?muh feels? and a few weeks of results in a game where the ball can bounce your way a lot more than a sport like football.

The question is would your article be the same if Elijah MacNamee was a few centimeters under the ball against FSU. If yes, then okay, if no then step back and reevaluate your position and take a look at LSU football currently as an example of what COULD happen.
Writing articles is what Rick Cleveland does. No reason for him to avoid this topic.

[Jack Lambert]

I want another coach. I don't like some of his decisions during the year especially in pitching. Coaching cost us a bunch of games. I think this team has talent and once that talent got the experience it needed they started jelling. It was more about them then him. I know I don't make the decisions and if it ends up being him I will accept it.

I give Jake more credit for their success then I do the head coach.

[lefty96]

This is going to get interesting fast after the cws ends.

[msudawglb]

https://mississippitoday.org/2018/06/13/henderson-has-earned-the-permanent-job-at-state/

I understand that some have the opinion that Henderson should get the job, but this statement tells me all that I need to know.

?Coaching in the SEC is not a job, it?s a lifestyle. All aspects of the job, from recruiting to players development, are all-consuming and require a 24/7/365 commitment. After 30 years in coaching, I have decided it is time for me to step away for the time being.?

[Jarius]

Thank God you're not making the hire.

[msstate7]

I understand that some have the opinion that Henderson should get the job, but this statement tells me all that I need to know.

?Coaching in the SEC is not a job, it?s a lifestyle. All aspects of the job, from recruiting to players development, are all-consuming and require a 24/7/365 commitment. After 30 years in coaching, I have decided it is time for me to step away for the time being.?

Didn't Howland say (or at least did) the same thing after being fired?

[Bulldog1]

Well I don't want Henderson. I don't think it's the best option. We'll see if he gets the job.

[msstate7]

I'm neutral on this. I think we have swung and missed on our big targets. I'd like to see the new target list to have a more informed decision on whether to keep Henderson or not. I still like the idea of saarloos as HC with Gautreau over hitting a lot. With that said, I thought this team was DOA at least 4-5 times this season, and Henderson still got this team to respond. There's something to be said for this imo. I also think winning here would be much, much more easy than at Kentucky when Henderson was there...vandy, florida, and South Carolina all on top of their game more some, even most of his tenure. Oh and this is just a far superior program

[msudawglb]

Didn't Howland say (or at least did) the same thing after being fired?

well, I'm not sold on Howland either. But the jury is still out.

[AlSwearengen]

Does Henderson have ten years in him? Under more pressure than at Kentucky?

We have got to get some coaching stability so that we can recruit the type of players that we need.

Who is considered to be the best “hot name” among the assistants that can recruit?

[shoeless joe]

If someone doesn't want Henderson as our next head coach, fine, that's your prerogative...I'm not real sure about it myself. If you don't like him cuz he's not an "elite" proven coach, he's not the big splash, he's not the top recruiter, whatever your reason there...that's fine some of those are legit question marks. But to those that are just dismissing the job he did and giving all the credit to gotro and the players and levying only blame on him for the losses...y'all are dumbasses that can't see through the fact that y'all made your mind up about him without seeing the season thru and now hafta justify your stance. The fact remains that he had this team in position to compete for a NC and a lot of these guys will be older, wiser, and rite back on the field next year. He's shown what he can do with these kids in the current situation and it'd surely be interesting to see what he could do with them during what certainly will be a normal regular off season and regular season next year.

Again, I'm not saying hire the man. If Cohen had someone better then I'm all for it. But he did an outstanding job this year and deserves consideration...serious consideration

[msstate7]

well, I'm not sold on Howland either. But the jury is still out.

Wow. You probably have your sights set too high then

[preachermatt83]

https://mississippitoday.org/2018/06/13/henderson-has-earned-the-permanent-job-at-state/

Ugh. A great coach would have won 40 in the regular season with this team. Only way I support hiring henderson is if we hire a top notch pitching coach and keep JakeG. Still, I’d rather hire butch or Tadlock or about half a dozen others.

[Cooterpoot]

I'm tired of the debate. But it would be hard to make him coach IMO. I understand people want to keep Jake and possibly make him the CIW. But if you do that, what lights out, young pitching coach is going to come here knowing he's got next to no shot at being the next coach? You'd either get an older guy or one that's less proven. And I know for fact, Gary didn't want the job earlier this spring and had mentioned retirement.
I think if he's named coach, everyone else declined. Or we won some games in the CWS.

[Liverpooldawg]

Some of y'all need to listen to yourselves.

[smootness]

I agree - Gary Henderson has earned the head coaching job with what this team has accomplished this year.

But once again, Cohen's job is not to give it to someone who has earned it. His job is to hire the best person available for the job. And I don't think that's Henderson.

[tireddawg]

Ugh. A great coach would have won 40 in the regular season with this team. Only way I support hiring henderson is if we hire a top notch pitching coach and keep JakeG. Still, I’d rather hire butch or Tadlock or about half a dozen others.

What's it matter how many games you win in the regular season if you make it to the World Series? I'm not sure I understand your point. Would you rather win 40 in the regular season and miss the World Series?

[Jacksondevildog]

The state of Mississippi has never won anything of any substance and this view is a reason why. Schools getting caught in the moment and letting emotions make their decision. Im tired of ?He?s a good guy? being the reason why people want for us to keep or hire a coach. I don?t think Henderson will regress the program, but that mentality from our fan base will.

[tcdog70]

I'll get behind the Coach that JC picks---If it is Hendo-then I can understand Why---If It is someone else He better Be a damn good one. The whole ball of wax is---John will make the call and Us(the bulldog Nation) just need to get behind Him and be as One(slim chance).

[Bulldog1]

Please Cohen don't make an emotional hire.

[BB30]

Hell, everyone else we talk to apparently hasn't shown a whole lot of interest. At this point we may be picking from a selection of coaches that are similar to Henderson. There are only a few truly elite guys out there right now. Everyone else is a crap shoot. There are some quality options but all have question marks.

If we aren't getting one of the top 5 guys we have already looked at it is seriously going to be a coin flip.

Tennessee went out and snagged a "big" name coach Dave Serrano and it was a disaster.
Auburn went out and snagged a solid coach in Sunny Golloway before Butch and it was also a disaster.
Both of those coaches has CWS experience as head guys and struggled in the SEC.

Nothing is guaranteed with whoever we hire.

[Jarius]

What's it matter how many games you win in the regular season if you make it to the World Series? I'm not sure I understand your point. Would you rather win 40 in the regular season and miss the World Series?

Because the law of averages say that teams that win a whole bunch of regular season games end up hosting throughout, which means your chances of getting to Omaha are better every year. People let the fact that Ole Miss chokes away the post season every year cloud their judgement on how important the regular season is. 6 of 8 teams in the World Series this year were 1 seeds. If we want to consistently make it to Omaha, we can't continue to hope we make it through National Seeds on our way there. If we do, we will continue going about twice a decade.

[Cooterpoot]

^^^ It's time to be the type program competing for a top 8 national seed most years.

[dawgs]

What's it matter how many games you win in the regular season if you make it to the World Series? I'm not sure I understand your point. Would you rather win 40 in the regular season and miss the World Series?

Thing is, winning 40+ games is the best way to put yourself into position to make and win the CWS. It's simply not sustainable to have to go on the road as a 2 seed and then win a road super year after year. Sustained success is set up by winning enough in the regular season to make your postseason path as easy as possible, and that's hosting regionals and super regionals.

[msstate7]

So y'all think this team should've been a national seed? I thought it was an exceptional job to get a 2-seed with this team. I compared this team to last year's squad a few times throughout the year and was ridiculed saying this team was nowhere near as good as last year's. Cann was praised by everyone for a SR last season, yet there's more than a pretty big group here that don't wanna give Henderson any credit at all for a CWS

[ChillOutDog]

Because the law of averages say that teams that win a whole bunch of regular season games end up hosting throughout, which means your chances of getting to Omaha are better every year. People let the fact that Ole Miss chokes away the post season every year cloud their judgement on how important the regular season is. 6 of 8 teams in the World Series this year were 1 seeds. If we want to consistently make it to Omaha, we can't continue to hope we make it through National Seeds on our way there. If we do, we will continue going about twice a decade.

Agreed and Henderson has a track record of not regularly hosting. I can?t believe the feelings based non-understanding of the sport fans we have.

There?s a reason they play more games than any other sport, there?s a reason the ?best? teams routinely do not win it all, there?s a reason the difference in winning % between best and worst teams in baseball is much closer than other sports. In a few games there is a lot of luck that goes on that CANNOT be attributed to the head coach. Come on people, think. Gary Henderson is no more responsible for the result of Mac?s HR in Tally than he would be if that was a K. We wouldn?t be having this discussion if it was. Baseball is NOT football. Go get the guy that can sustain regional hosting 65%+ of the time. That?s what we should demand.

[msstate7]

Agreed and Henderson has a track record of not regularly hosting. I can?t believe the feelings based non-understanding of the sport fans we have.

There?s a reason they play more games than any other sport, there?s a reason the ?best? teams routinely do not win it all, there?s a reason the difference in winning % between best and worst teams in baseball is much closer than other sports. In a few games there is a lot of luck that goes on that CANNOT be attributed to the head coach. Come on people, think. Gary Henderson is no more responsible for the result of Mac?s HR in Tally than he would be if that was a K. We wouldn?t be having this discussion if it was. Baseball is NOT football. Go get the guy that can sustain regional hosting 65%+ of the time. That?s what we should demand.

The fact you can't understand Henderson played a big part in even getting us to the point where Mac could hit that HR shows you're letting your feelings into this too. This team was awful... just awful from beginning to mid season. Why do you think Henderson won COY? Did people with no affliation let their "feelings" affect their voting? Again, I'm not saying Henderson should get the job, but he's done a hell of a job this year

[dawgs]

So y'all think this team should've been a national seed? I thought it was an exceptional job to get a 2-seed with this team. I compared this team to last year's squad a few times throughout the year and was ridiculed saying this team was nowhere near as good as last year's. Cann was praised by everyone for a SR last season, yet there's more than a pretty big group here that don't wanna give Henderson any credit at all for a CWS

No, I think he did a great job all things considered this year. The coaching turmoil, all the road games, playing as many freshman everyday as we have. And yeah, MSU is easier to win at than Kentucky, but Kentucky isn't any tougher to win at than Louisville or tx tech or tcu, so instead of hiring a coach that will get us over the hump, it feels like we'll just be hiring a coach who will be just fine. He probably won't tank the program (the facilities alone should ensure at least decent talent keeps walking through the door that keeps us in regionals regardless of the HC), but I have a hard time seeing him turning into an elite coach at his age given his meh track record.

My fear is we just have a guy that gives us a 35ish win team that consistently gets a 2 seed in the regionals and occasionally gets hot at the right time to make a CWS trip - basically the last 15 years or so of MSU baseball. There's obviously worse situations to be in, but we should all be tired of being just a 2 seed type program.

[was21]

Everybody is entitled to an opinion. In this case, John Cohen's is the one that counts regardless.

[dawgman15]

I agree, our opinions aren't very important in the grand scheme of things.

[ChillOutDog]

No, I think he did a great job all things considered this year. The coaching turmoil, all the road games, playing as many freshman everyday as we have. And yeah, MSU is easier to win at than Kentucky, but Kentucky isn't any tougher to win at than Louisville or tx tech or tcu, so instead of hiring a coach that will get us over the hump, it feels like we'll just be hiring a coach who will be just fine. He probably won't tank the program (the facilities alone should ensure at least decent talent keeps walking through the door that keeps us in regionals regardless of the HC), but I have a hard time seeing him turning into an elite coach at his age given his meh track record.

My fear is we just have a guy that gives us a 35ish win team that consistently gets a 2 seed in the regionals and occasionally gets hot at the right time to make a CWS trip - basically the last 15 years or so of MSU baseball. There's obviously worse situations to be in, but we should all be tired of being just a 2 seed type program.

Nothing to add - perfect.

[Cooterpoot]

Henderson was part of the glue that held it all together until the young guys took off. No reason not to give him some credit. He's like the girlfriend that's a good cook but sucks in the sack. A lot to be said for good food. But at the end of the day, good poon wins.

[runwildjerious]

Anyone know what Kendall Rogers had told say in his coaching search update today?

[Todd4State]

Gary Henderson should not be named the MSU head baseball coach at the end of the year. This is typical Rick Cleveland knee jerk reaction- and if we did hire Henderson he would be writing an article about why we shouldn't fire him about 3-4 years from now.


Here are some facts:


The biggest thing that I have said since Cann left was that we needed stability more than anything. Cohen had to talk Henderson out of retirement just to be our pitching coach. So, if we do name Henderson the head coach how long can we realistically expect him to stay around? It's very plausible if not likely that we will be doing another search within 3-5 years from now. We're going to be much better off with someone that is going to stay longer.


We've had 19 come from behind wins this season per ESPN. I'm not sure what ESPN considers a come back but game three of the SR could be considered number 20. A lot of that is because of Henderson's pitching staff mismanagement. And it doesn't include the games where he mismanaged the pitching staff and we didn't come back and win.


The pitching staff mismanagement is my biggest concern from this season. For example- Konnor Pilkington threw over 95 pitches in every SEC outing this year no matter what. Why? So that Gary could save the bullpen. What it resulted in was Pilkington getting a dead arm by the end of the year. Not using Riley Self in game two of the SR is another example. Most coaches with a lead use their closer in that situation but Henderson decided to stay with Zach Neff who had thrown over 40 pitches at that point. Now, hindsight will say that Self may have given up the home run anyway based on his game three performance but there is no way to assume that when the stats suggest that he would be more likely to succeed. And even if he had failed at least I go to bed with the comfort of knowing that they beat our best guy and not a LOOGY who doesn't normally go that deep into games. The ninth inning of the Governor's Cup is another example. We start the inning off with Neff who gives up a hit to a RH batter but when the next hitter who came up who was LH gets in the box we take out Neff our LH specialist. If we were going to play it like that- start the inning off with your closer. So, anyway he brings in France who despite it not being a great baseball move blows the hitter away throwing 95 on the Trustmark Park gun. So, I'm sitting there thinking- ball game. But no...we just randomly decide at that point to take out our pitcher who was obviously in a groove for another pitcher who then blew the lead. Luckily for us Bianco outdumbed Henderson because Mangum is living rent free in his head and Bianco walked the go ahead run on base and then they got beat by LA.


Then I have concerns about how he handled Riley Self's injury. Henderson told the media that Self wasn't healthy. Self's Mom gets on Genespage and says that is not true. Self then pitches soon after and looks like the old Riley Self. Why was there a disconnect there? Ryan Rigby left the program because he was unhappy with how Henderson handled his hip injury as well.


Henderson is our pitching coach and our staff finished 10th in the SEC in ERA. It was 11th going into the postseason.


I think a lot of the reason for our turnaround has to do with Jake Gautreau. If you watch our highlight videos it's typically Gautreau giving the pre game speech to the team. Our hitting is middle of the pack in the SEC but it has improved a lot since game 31. We are second in the SEC in doubles and lead the SEC in triples and lately our home runs have gone up as well. My concern with hiring Henderson is you increase the odds of Gautreau leaving. And if that did happen does Henderson have the connections to replace him? When Henderson was at Kentucky he basically kept Cohen's old staff. Same thing at MSU with Cann's staff. This season probably doesn't happen with Will Coggin as the hitting coach. If we hire anybody off the old staff as the head coach it should definitely be Gautreau.


Conclusion:


I don't really care what the national media thinks about MSU or how we handle Henderson. I haven't heard anyone on ESPN saying anything other than Cohen will make a great hire. The fallout certainly won't be worse than Polk's resignation or the Cann saga. We have a very unique opportunity to give an elite coach a team that is Omaha caliber right now. No rebuilding. More than a million dolllars in salary and a brand new minor league stadium to play in with an AD that will give then facilities and money to make up for the scholarship difference. I'm like Shotgun- why aren't people lining up for this job? At any rate no matter what the media thinks MSU needs to do what is absolutely the best for MSU and not worry about winning the press conference or any of that crap. If elite coaches don't want our job- offer it to Gautreau or another up and comer that will provide us with stability and continue to advance our winning product. It's time for MSU to stop being a "good" top 20 program and become a top 10 program like we all want it to be.

[Todd4State]

Anyone know what Kendall Rogers had told say in his coaching search update today?

Synopsis- Ironically said it's unlikely to be Gary Henderson. Also said it's unlikely to be Butch Thompson.

[Lord McBuckethead]

So y'all think this team should've been a national seed? I thought it was an exceptional job to get a 2-seed with this team. I compared this team to last year's squad a few times throughout the year and was ridiculed saying this team was nowhere near as good as last year's. Cann was praised by everyone for a SR last season, yet there's more than a pretty big group here that don't wanna give Henderson any credit at all for a CWS

Not sure about it, but most give him a ton of credit for getting to Omaha. Still has nothing to do with our next coach. Hire the absolute best. If Henderson is the best, then so be it.

It would be amazing if he could string at least two straight games without making a terrible baseball decision.

[Jarius]

Gary Henderson should not be named the MSU head baseball coach at the end of the year. This is typical Rick Cleveland knee jerk reaction- and if we did hire Henderson he would be writing an article about why we shouldn't fire him about 3-4 years from now.


Here are some facts:


The biggest thing that I have said since Cann left was that we needed stability more than anything. Cohen had to talk Henderson out of retirement just to be our pitching coach. So, if we do name Henderson the head coach how long can we realistically expect him to stay around? It's very plausible if not likely that we will be doing another search within 3-5 years from now. We're going to be much better off with someone that is going to stay longer.


We've had 19 come from behind wins this season per ESPN. I'm not sure what ESPN considers a come back but game three of the SR could be considered number 20. A lot of that is because of Henderson's pitching staff mismanagement. And it doesn't include the games where he mismanaged the pitching staff and we didn't come back and win.


The pitching staff mismanagement is my biggest concern from this season. For example- Konnor Pilkington threw over 95 pitches in every SEC outing this year no matter what. Why? So that Gary could save the bullpen. What it resulted in was Pilkington getting a dead arm by the end of the year. Not using Riley Self in game two of the SR is another example. Most coaches with a lead use their closer in that situation but Henderson decided to stay with Zach Neff who had thrown over 40 pitches at that point. Now, hindsight will say that Self may have given up the home run anyway based on his game three performance but there is no way to assume that when the stats suggest that he would be more likely to succeed. And even if he had failed at least I go to bed with the comfort of knowing that they beat our best guy and not a LOOGY who doesn't normally go that deep into games. The ninth inning of the Governor's Cup is another example. We start the inning off with Neff who gives up a hit to a RH batter but when the next hitter who came up who was LH gets in the box we take out Neff our LH specialist. If we were going to play it like that- start the inning off with your closer. So, anyway he brings in France who despite it not being a great baseball move blows the hitter away throwing 95 on the Trustmark Park gun. So, I'm sitting there thinking- ball game. But no...we just randomly decide at that point to take out our pitcher who was obviously in a groove for another pitcher who then blew the lead. Luckily for us Bianco outdumbed Henderson because Mangum is living rent free in his head and Bianco walked the go ahead run on base and then they got beat by LA.


Then I have concerns about how he handled Riley Self's injury. Henderson told the media that Self wasn't healthy. Self's Mom gets on Genespage and says that is not true. Self then pitches soon after and looks like the old Riley Self. Why was there a disconnect there? Ryan Rigby left the program because he was unhappy with how Henderson handled his hip injury as well.


Henderson is our pitching coach and our staff finished 10th in the SEC in ERA. It was 11th going into the postseason.


I think a lot of the reason for our turnaround has to do with Jake Gautreau. If you watch our highlight videos it's typically Gautreau giving the pre game speech to the team. Our hitting is middle of the pack in the SEC but it has improved a lot since game 31. We are second in the SEC in doubles and lead the SEC in triples and lately our home runs have gone up as well. My concern with hiring Henderson is you increase the odds of Gautreau leaving. And if that did happen does Henderson have the connections to replace him? When Henderson was at Kentucky he basically kept Cohen's old staff. Same thing at MSU with Cann's staff. This season probably doesn't happen with Will Coggin as the hitting coach. If we hire anybody off the old staff as the head coach it should definitely be Gautreau.


Conclusion:


I don't really care what the national media thinks about MSU or how we handle Henderson. I haven't heard anyone on ESPN saying anything other than Cohen will make a great hire. The fallout certainly won't be worse than Polk's resignation or the Cann saga. We have a very unique opportunity to give an elite coach a team that is Omaha caliber right now. No rebuilding. More than a million dolllars in salary and a brand new minor league stadium to play in with an AD that will give then facilities and money to make up for the scholarship difference. I'm like Shotgun- why aren't people lining up for this job? At any rate no matter what the media thinks MSU needs to do what is absolutely the best for MSU and not worry about winning the press conference or any of that crap. If elite coaches don't want our job- offer it to Gautreau or another up and comer that will provide us with stability and continue to advance our winning product. It's time for MSU to stop being a "good" top 20 program and become a top 10 program like we all want it to be.

Yes to all of this. I can promise you that none of our rivals would hire him if he was available and they had an opening. They keep telling our fans that “we have to hire him” because they don’t fear him long term. They would be mad as hell if they hired him at their school, because he has 8 years of mediocrity on his resume.

[Todd4State]

Yes to all of this. I can promise you that none of our rivals would hire him if he was available and they had an opening. They keep telling our fans that “we have to hire him” because they don’t fear him long term. They would be mad as hell if they hired him at their school, because he has 8 years of mediocrity on his resume.

This is a good point. And probably a big reason why USM's most visible media presence is promoting him.


Being an interim coach and being the head coach are very different animals. See Ed Orgeron.

[Todd4State]

More facts:

Kentucky head coaches!

At Kentucky:

John Cohen- .609 winning percentage including two rebuilding seasons.

Nick Mingione- .631 winning percentage

Gary Henderson- .565 winning percentage

Henderson only had one winning SEC season at Kentucky and one .500 season. Even at MSU with an Omaha caliber team he managed to finish only .500.

Hiring Gary Henderson would mean hiring a coach with a worse winning percentage than Cohen and Mingione and a guy with ONE winning season in SEC play in his career.


I love our team and I love the season we are having- but when you have 19 come from behind wins and a coach with a track record like Henderson's add in the fact that we had to have a miracle walk-off against FSU to not go 0-2 in the regional- I don't think anyone can convince me that what we did this year is in any way sustainable over a longer period of time.

[Bully75]

I want another coach. I don't like some of his decisions during the year especially in pitching. Coaching cost us a bunch of games. I think this team has talent and once that talent got the experience it needed they started jelling. It was more about them then him. I know I don't make the decisions and if it ends up being him I will accept it.

I give Jake more credit for their success then I do the head coach.


Gary Henderson should not be named the MSU head baseball coach at the end of the year. This is typical Rick Cleveland knee jerk reaction- and if we did hire Henderson he would be writing an article about why we shouldn't fire him about 3-4 years from now.


Here are some facts:


The biggest thing that I have said since Cann left was that we needed stability more than anything. Cohen had to talk Henderson out of retirement just to be our pitching coach. So, if we do name Henderson the head coach how long can we realistically expect him to stay around? It's very plausible if not likely that we will be doing another search within 3-5 years from now. We're going to be much better off with someone that is going to stay longer.


We've had 19 come from behind wins this season per ESPN. I'm not sure what ESPN considers a come back but game three of the SR could be considered number 20. A lot of that is because of Henderson's pitching staff mismanagement. And it doesn't include the games where he mismanaged the pitching staff and we didn't come back and win.


The pitching staff mismanagement is my biggest concern from this season. For example- Konnor Pilkington threw over 95 pitches in every SEC outing this year no matter what. Why? So that Gary could save the bullpen. What it resulted in was Pilkington getting a dead arm by the end of the year. Not using Riley Self in game two of the SR is another example. Most coaches with a lead use their closer in that situation but Henderson decided to stay with Zach Neff who had thrown over 40 pitches at that point. Now, hindsight will say that Self may have given up the home run anyway based on his game three performance but there is no way to assume that when the stats suggest that he would be more likely to succeed. And even if he had failed at least I go to bed with the comfort of knowing that they beat our best guy and not a LOOGY who doesn't normally go that deep into games. The ninth inning of the Governor's Cup is another example. We start the inning off with Neff who gives up a hit to a RH batter but when the next hitter who came up who was LH gets in the box we take out Neff our LH specialist. If we were going to play it like that- start the inning off with your closer. So, anyway he brings in France who despite it not being a great baseball move blows the hitter away throwing 95 on the Trustmark Park gun. So, I'm sitting there thinking- ball game. But no...we just randomly decide at that point to take out our pitcher who was obviously in a groove for another pitcher who then blew the lead. Luckily for us Bianco outdumbed Henderson because Mangum is living rent free in his head and Bianco walked the go ahead run on base and then they got beat by LA.


Then I have concerns about how he handled Riley Self's injury. Henderson told the media that Self wasn't healthy. Self's Mom gets on Genespage and says that is not true. Self then pitches soon after and looks like the old Riley Self. Why was there a disconnect there? Ryan Rigby left the program because he was unhappy with how Henderson handled his hip injury as well.


Henderson is our pitching coach and our staff finished 10th in the SEC in ERA. It was 11th going into the postseason.


I think a lot of the reason for our turnaround has to do with Jake Gautreau. If you watch our highlight videos it's typically Gautreau giving the pre game speech to the team. Our hitting is middle of the pack in the SEC but it has improved a lot since game 31. We are second in the SEC in doubles and lead the SEC in triples and lately our home runs have gone up as well. My concern with hiring Henderson is you increase the odds of Gautreau leaving. And if that did happen does Henderson have the connections to replace him? When Henderson was at Kentucky he basically kept Cohen's old staff. Same thing at MSU with Cann's staff. This season probably doesn't happen with Will Coggin as the hitting coach. If we hire anybody off the old staff as the head coach it should definitely be Gautreau.


Conclusion:


I don't really care what the national media thinks about MSU or how we handle Henderson. I haven't heard anyone on ESPN saying anything other than Cohen will make a great hire. The fallout certainly won't be worse than Polk's resignation or the Cann saga. We have a very unique opportunity to give an elite coach a team that is Omaha caliber right now. No rebuilding. More than a million dolllars in salary and a brand new minor league stadium to play in with an AD that will give then facilities and money to make up for the scholarship difference. I'm like Shotgun- why aren't people lining up for this job? At any rate no matter what the media thinks MSU needs to do what is absolutely the best for MSU and not worry about winning the press conference or any of that crap. If elite coaches don't want our job- offer it to Gautreau or another up and comer that will provide us with stability and continue to advance our winning product. It's time for MSU to stop being a "good" top 20 program and become a top 10 program like we all want it to be.

Agree. Trust Cohen to make the right hire for our program. Moving forward.

[KOdawg1]

Guys, it's simple. Ask yourself: can Henderson win a national championship here? His questionable in-game decisions on an every game basis and past success as a head coach lead me to believe he can't. We've invested millions into a new stadium and facilities, and we have one of the most passionate fanbases in the country. We deserve a national championship, and GH isn't the guy who can get us there.

[West Tn Dawg]

If you're going to blame him for all the bad stuff, you got to give him credit for the good!

[KOdawg1]

If you're going to blame him for all the bad stuff, you got to give him credit for the good!

Absolutely, I'm thankful for him keeping this team together. I still don't want him as our head coach though.

[Pit Bull]

https://mississippitoday.org/2018/06/13/henderson-has-earned-the-permanent-job-at-state/

Learned one new thing about Hendy from your photo of him jumping up to hug another coach.......for a 50 yr old guy......HE GOT HOPS!!.....almost looked like a 30--40" clearance from the turf! Wow....didn't know he was that athletic. Probably some adrenaline working too. I traveled to Houston for the Shriners Classic. Gary was a great representative for MSU.....nothing but class. Little Alec (Shriner Rep) you see on tv interviewed all the coaches somewhere during the game. Gary made Alec laugh on a couple of occasions. Was a complete natural in talking about varied questions and interacted with everyone very well. I would simply leave it up to John Cohen.....if he names Gary Henderson as HC......I'm good with it. If he brings in another coach......I'm good with it also. One thing is for sure......Gary Henderson proved he can coach the MSU Diamond Dogs. Some other big D-1 program will take him if we don't. And he will do very well there too.
'

[Pit Bull]

Guys, it's simple. Ask yourself: can Henderson win a national championship here? His questionable in-game decisions on an every game basis and past success as a head coach lead me to believe he can't. We've invested millions into a new stadium and facilities, and we have one of the most passionate fanbases in the country. We deserve a national championship, and GH isn't the guy who can get us there.

Yeah.....I think he can win a National Championship here at MSU. In fact....he'll probably do it in about 13-14 days.

[Liverpooldawg]

So not getting to the Sweet 16 is eventual grounds for firing a coach, but getting to Omaha isn't grounds for retaining one? Listen to yourselves.

[Todd4State]

If you're going to blame him for all the bad stuff, you got to give him credit for the good!

He deserves some credit- but not all of the credit.

What about Gautreau? Henderson has very little to do with the offense.

[Todd4State]

So not getting to the Sweet 16 is eventual grounds for firing a coach, but getting to Omaha isn't grounds for retaining one? Listen to yourselves.

Firing? He's just an interim coach. Same title as Greg Knox.

Please tell us how we will never upgrade from Dan Mullen because we fired Allyn McKeen again?

I do not want to go through Polk II again because it's the emotional easy prisoner of the moment thing to do. Nor does anyone else. No one is even sure if Gary Henderson wants to do it- and even if he does I imagine it wouldn't last for long similar to Polk II. I would imagine that if Cohen thought he was the guy he would have been promoted instead of us going out and hiring Cannizaro the first time. And would have been officially promoted by now.


Cohen is very in tune with baseball and what works for the major powerhouse programs- which is why he covets Tim Corbin (won't get him but that's not the point) and why he hired someone with Cann's scouting background. More than likely if we don't get a big name like a Tadlock we will end up with someone with a background similar to Cann and Gautreau's. Which is why Purdue's coach is even being mentioned in the first place.

[Liverpooldawg]

Firing? He's just an interim coach. Same title as Greg Knox.

Please tell us how we will never upgrade from Dan Mullen because we fired Allyn McKeen again?

I do not want to go through Polk II again because it's the emotional easy prisoner of the moment thing to do. Nor does anyone else. No one is even sure if Gary Henderson wants to do it- and even if he does I imagine it wouldn't last for long similar to Polk II. I would imagine that if Cohen thought he was the guy he would have been promoted instead of us going out and hiring Cannizaro the first time. And would have been officially promoted by now.


Cohen is very in tune with baseball and what works for the major powerhouse programs- which is why he covets Tim Corbin (won't get him but that's not the point) and why he hired someone with Cann's scouting background. More than likely if we don't get a big name like a Tadlock we will end up with someone with a background similar to Cann and Gautreau's. Which is why Purdue's coach is even being mentioned in the first place.

We don't have to Fire Henderson. I was referring to Stans. Many wanted him fired for not getting to the Sweet 16. Now many of the same folks don't want to retain Henderson, and he has made the Elite 8.

As for upgrading on Mullen...... hopefully we did. We don't know yet.....and won't for a while. As for McKeen, Mullen got us out from under that one finally. We didn't have to fire him or force him out, he won, and he stayed here longer than two years. That's the first one since McKeen.

[Cooterpoot]

Umm, Stans had NCAA issues and his program fell apart.

[Jarius]

So not getting to the Sweet 16 is eventual grounds for firing a coach, but getting to Omaha isn't grounds for retaining one? Listen to yourselves.

MSU baseball deserves better than a coach who has been to 2 regionals in 8 years as a permanent head coach. Stop being so short sighted and look at his entire resume. Listen to YOURSELF. I can promise you no one else in our league or any other league comparable to ours is going to hire him if we don’t, and that should be a pretty big clue that we should not either.

[Randolph Dupree]

If we don't land one of the big guys, Gautreau is the guy. He's only been here one year but he was an assistant at Tulane and has connections in the scouting world and on the business side. That's as much coaching experience as Cann had. Plus he wears short sleeves when it's hot, doesn't post daily videos of his bench press, and doesn't seem like a meat head. He seems charismatic and as best I can tell is as much responsible for the turnaround as Henderson. Henderson is an emotional decision, and at best a stop gap hire. There is ZERO potential for long term success...if nothing else age will catch up to him. Take emotion out of it and be a realist. Give the guy a big bonus and/or a soft job in the Athletic Department and lets all move on...after we win the natty of course.

[msstate7]

If we don't land one of the big guys, Gautreau is the guy. He's only been here one year but he was an assistant at Tulane and has connections in the scouting world and on the business side. That's as much coaching experience as Cann had. Plus he wears short sleeves when it's hot, doesn't post daily videos of his bench press, and doesn't seem like a meat head. He seems charismatic and as best I can tell is as much responsible for the turnaround as Henderson. Henderson is an emotional decision, and at best a stop gap hire. There is ZERO potential for long term success...if nothing else age will catch up to him. Take emotion out of it and be a realist. Give the guy a big bonus and/or a soft job in the Athletic Department and lets all move on...after we win the natty of course.

Isn't Henderson younger than howland and Vic?

[Pit Bull]

If we don't land one of the big guys, Gautreau is the guy. He's only been here one year but he was an assistant at Tulane and has connections in the scouting world and on the business side. That's as much coaching experience as Cann had. Plus he wears short sleeves when it's hot, doesn't post daily videos of his bench press, and doesn't seem like a meat head. He seems charismatic and as best I can tell is as much responsible for the turnaround as Henderson. Henderson is an emotional decision, and at best a stop gap hire. There is ZERO potential for long term success...if nothing else age will catch up to him. Take emotion out of it and be a realist. Give the guy a big bonus and/or a soft job in the Athletic Department and lets all move on...after we win the natty of course.

If Gary doesn't want the HC job, Gautreau would probably offer the pitching coach job to him. And would probably keep Brown too. All 3 seem to work real well together. And continuity is big time huge with the players on the team. And if Gary does want the job, it definitely sounds like he would keep Gautreau and Brown as well. Any combination of those 3 will get us where we want to go.....and we may already be there! BTW.....our top player, Jake Mangum gives Henderson all the credit for turning this early season mess around. I think Cohen should, and likely will, talk to many players on the team about Henderson before he offers it to anyone.

[Fred Garvin]

Ugh. A great coach would have won 40 in the regular season with this team. Only way I support hiring henderson is if we hire a top notch pitching coach and keep JakeG. Still, I?d rather hire butch or Tadlock or about half a dozen others.

What coach do you think would have won 40 games given the situation at the beginning of the season? You guys act like we?re the 1927 Yankees and Henderson has done nothing but screw it up.

[Randolph Dupree]

Isn't Henderson younger than howland and Vic?

I think he is 57...I can't verify it but I believe I heard that. Vic is 57 and Howland is 60 or 61. The difference is that Howland and and Vic have track records of winning. Henderson other than this year has a mediocre track record (at best).

[preachermatt83]

Gary Henderson should not be named the MSU head baseball coach at the end of the year. This is typical Rick Cleveland knee jerk reaction- and if we did hire Henderson he would be writing an article about why we shouldn't fire him about 3-4 years from now.


Here are some facts:


The biggest thing that I have said since Cann left was that we needed stability more than anything. Cohen had to talk Henderson out of retirement just to be our pitching coach. So, if we do name Henderson the head coach how long can we realistically expect him to stay around? It's very plausible if not likely that we will be doing another search within 3-5 years from now. We're going to be much better off with someone that is going to stay longer.


We've had 19 come from behind wins this season per ESPN. I'm not sure what ESPN considers a come back but game three of the SR could be considered number 20. A lot of that is because of Henderson's pitching staff mismanagement. And it doesn't include the games where he mismanaged the pitching staff and we didn't come back and win.


The pitching staff mismanagement is my biggest concern from this season. For example- Konnor Pilkington threw over 95 pitches in every SEC outing this year no matter what. Why? So that Gary could save the bullpen. What it resulted in was Pilkington getting a dead arm by the end of the year. Not using Riley Self in game two of the SR is another example. Most coaches with a lead use their closer in that situation but Henderson decided to stay with Zach Neff who had thrown over 40 pitches at that point. Now, hindsight will say that Self may have given up the home run anyway based on his game three performance but there is no way to assume that when the stats suggest that he would be more likely to succeed. And even if he had failed at least I go to bed with the comfort of knowing that they beat our best guy and not a LOOGY who doesn't normally go that deep into games. The ninth inning of the Governor's Cup is another example. We start the inning off with Neff who gives up a hit to a RH batter but when the next hitter who came up who was LH gets in the box we take out Neff our LH specialist. If we were going to play it like that- start the inning off with your closer. So, anyway he brings in France who despite it not being a great baseball move blows the hitter away throwing 95 on the Trustmark Park gun. So, I'm sitting there thinking- ball game. But no...we just randomly decide at that point to take out our pitcher who was obviously in a groove for another pitcher who then blew the lead. Luckily for us Bianco outdumbed Henderson because Mangum is living rent free in his head and Bianco walked the go ahead run on base and then they got beat by LA.


Then I have concerns about how he handled Riley Self's injury. Henderson told the media that Self wasn't healthy. Self's Mom gets on Genespage and says that is not true. Self then pitches soon after and looks like the old Riley Self. Why was there a disconnect there? Ryan Rigby left the program because he was unhappy with how Henderson handled his hip injury as well.


Henderson is our pitching coach and our staff finished 10th in the SEC in ERA. It was 11th going into the postseason.


I think a lot of the reason for our turnaround has to do with Jake Gautreau. If you watch our highlight videos it's typically Gautreau giving the pre game speech to the team. Our hitting is middle of the pack in the SEC but it has improved a lot since game 31. We are second in the SEC in doubles and lead the SEC in triples and lately our home runs have gone up as well. My concern with hiring Henderson is you increase the odds of Gautreau leaving. And if that did happen does Henderson have the connections to replace him? When Henderson was at Kentucky he basically kept Cohen's old staff. Same thing at MSU with Cann's staff. This season probably doesn't happen with Will Coggin as the hitting coach. If we hire anybody off the old staff as the head coach it should definitely be Gautreau.


Conclusion:


I don't really care what the national media thinks about MSU or how we handle Henderson. I haven't heard anyone on ESPN saying anything other than Cohen will make a great hire. The fallout certainly won't be worse than Polk's resignation or the Cann saga. We have a very unique opportunity to give an elite coach a team that is Omaha caliber right now. No rebuilding. More than a million dolllars in salary and a brand new minor league stadium to play in with an AD that will give then facilities and money to make up for the scholarship difference. I'm like Shotgun- why aren't people lining up for this job? At any rate no matter what the media thinks MSU needs to do what is absolutely the best for MSU and not worry about winning the press conference or any of that crap. If elite coaches don't want our job- offer it to Gautreau or another up and comer that will provide us with stability and continue to advance our winning product. It's time for MSU to stop being a "good" top 20 program and become a top 10 program like we all want it to be.
Man that?s one heck of a post. Great points!!

[msstate7]

I think he is 57...I can't verify it but I believe I heard that. Vic is 57 and Howland is 60 or 61. The difference is that Howland and and Vic have track records of winning. Henderson other than this year has a mediocre track record (at best).

You brought up age as a reason to not give him the job. Just pointed out he's around same age as our other successful coaches. BTW, Vic's winning % was .421 in first 7 years of being a HC before state. Henderson's winning % is .548 in his first 9 seasons before state.

I want someone else, but I think Henderson gets hated on much more than deserved

[Randolph Dupree]

You brought up age as a reason to not give him the job. Just pointed out he's around same age as our other successful coaches. BTW, Vic's winning % was .421 in first 7 years of being a HC before state. Henderson's winning % is .548 in his first 9 seasons before state.

I want someone else, but I think Henderson gets hated on much more than deserved

Agree that he gets hated on more than he should. I like the guy. My point wasnt as much about age as it was about time. At some point age catches up with you (the recruiting, the game schedule etc). If we are looking for a long term winner, someone to come in and provide a stable long term platform for success, time is not on Henderson's side. It's taken Vic 5-years to establish that consistent winning program, and maybe he has 7 or 8 more in him and that gives him a 12-13 year run. That's solid and I want the same thing for Baseball.

[Todd4State]

We don't have to Fire Henderson. I was referring to Stans. Many wanted him fired for not getting to the Sweet 16. Now many of the same folks don't want to retain Henderson, and he has made the Elite 8.

As for upgrading on Mullen...... hopefully we did. We don't know yet.....and won't for a while. As for McKeen, Mullen got us out from under that one finally. We didn't have to fire him or force him out, he won, and he stayed here longer than two years. That's the first one since McKeen.

I have a feeling we're going to know in a few months. We've already obviously upgraded our recruiting- even more than I thought that our original ceiling was- which makes Dan look even worse.

It's still very different when you are comparing MSU basketball and baseball. It's also different comparing a full time coach to an interim coach. Especially when the interim coach is operating on the understanding that it is very unlikely that he will get the job.

[Todd4State]

If Gary doesn't want the HC job, Gautreau would probably offer the pitching coach job to him. And would probably keep Brown too. All 3 seem to work real well together. And continuity is big time huge with the players on the team. And if Gary does want the job, it definitely sounds like he would keep Gautreau and Brown as well. Any combination of those 3 will get us where we want to go.....and we may already be there! BTW.....our top player, Jake Mangum gives Henderson all the credit for turning this early season mess around. I think Cohen should, and likely will, talk to many players on the team about Henderson before he offers it to anyone.

Even under that scenario I would much rather Gautreau be the coach and keep Henderson as the pitching coach than have Henderson be the head coach. I trust Jake's in game decision making much more.

[Todd4State]

You brought up age as a reason to not give him the job. Just pointed out he's around same age as our other successful coaches. BTW, Vic's winning % was .421 in first 7 years of being a HC before state. Henderson's winning % is .548 in his first 9 seasons before state.

I want someone else, but I think Henderson gets hated on much more than deserved

The biggest difference is MSU baseball is a different animal than MSU men's and when Vic was hired at least- MSU women's basketball. I do think that MSU women's basketball can command the same type of attention and level of expectations that MSU baseball has gotten....but that's another thread.


My point is....


MSU baseball has the ability to be a National Championship contender. All 10 of our CWS appearances are since 1972 with a finals appearance and the 1985 team is far more remembered than the team that actually won the 1985 National Title. That's an average of a CWS appearance once every five years. And for about 15-16 of those years (1973-1976 and then 2002-2010 roughly and then 2015) we haven't been operating on full capacity. There is no reason to make a sentimental hire. MSU fans crave a National Title- and after the first one people are going to want the next one....and then the next one after that. We know we have the resources to be an elite national program. I think most of our fans know that we have been underachieving for awhile now and badly want to take the next step up where most of us feel we belong in the college baseball world. I don't think people care whether that's with a guy like Schlossnagle that is proven or with a guy that is an up and comer like Gautreau. We just don't want to make a sentimental hire that has some obvious red flags especially after we went through Polk II. Our fans saw first hand what the ramifications of that were- and no one wants to go through 2008-2010 again. Even worse- it allowed Ole Miss and USM to rise up and become respectable programs. Cohen finally got us back to at least where we were if not even beyond and had to put up with a lot of shit to get it there from our very own fans and Ron Polk. We're all ready to move forward and this is a great time to do it coming off of a SEC Championship, three SR appearances, and now in Omaha to go along with a new ballpark which will be the best in America as far as college goes.


Basketball is a different animal where we can afford to have a retread like Howland after years of losing and Rick Ray and then women's basketball had been consistently good for the most part but was nothing to brag about before Vic became the coach.


I don't think Henderson gets hated on too much at all. He has obvious flaws and anyone that does defend him never comes back with anything legitimately baseball related to discuss why he made a certain move.

[msbulldog]

I'll get behind the Coach that JC picks---If it is Hendo-then I can understand Why---If It is someone else He better Be a damn good one. The whole ball of wax is---John will make the call and Us(the bulldog Nation) just need to get behind Him and be as One(slim chance).

Totally agree! Rep given.

[shannondawg]

Only way to keep our fans 100% happy , is to win every game all the way up the championship. And sadly to say, that might not do it.

[Liverpooldawg]

I have a feeling we're going to know in a few months. We've already obviously upgraded our recruiting- even more than I thought that our original ceiling was- which makes Dan look even worse.

It's still very different when you are comparing MSU basketball and baseball. It's also different comparing a full time coach to an interim coach. Especially when the interim coach is operating on the understanding that it is very unlikely that he will get the job.

We won't know in a few months. Mullen won over 9 year and perhaps left his most talented team when he took the other job. We have had plenty of coaches come in and do well at first, Emory Bellard is the perfect example. We won't know for at least 3-4 years.

You are still not wanting to retain Henderson for doing what people wanted Stans gone for not doing. Henderson's results speak for themselves if you if you have an open mind. I'm seeing a lot of stuff from neutrals like Rick that are saying the same thing. There are plenty of MSU people that are too. Some of our internet coaches made up their mind about Henderson before he ever took the field as the head man. Many more made theirs up before he righted the ship. Baseball is a game of failure. If you want to find failings in a player or a manager, you can always do it.

[Cooterpoot]

Stop with the Stansbury comparison. Stans completely lost his program- COMPLETELY. And he's done nothing since he left. It was time for him to go. Had he stayed, the NCAA was going to be all over us. And as far as Dan, he didn't do much better than Sherrill and he had an extra game to work with every year. His record against good teams was atrocious. And this group of players we've got was because he went juco heavy out of necessity because we couldn't recruit HS kids. We got lucky the juco pool was deep.
Gary has been doing this for a couple months, not years like those guys. He's not an automatic hire. He's a consideration and he's behind coaches with a proven track record.

[yjnkdawg]

Only way to keep our fans 100% happy , is to win every game all the way up the championship. And sadly to say, that might not do it.


I think it is just a very few on here who have that extreme expectation.

[yjnkdawg]

well, I'm not sold on Howland either. But the jury is still out.


LOL I'm glad Cohen doesn't use you as an advisor.

[MadDawg]

Umm, Stans had NCAA issues and his program fell apart.

Well you got one right anyway.

[MadDawg]

You got to love stats. They will tell you anything you want them to. Especially when you cherry pick what's best for your argument.

You compare overall winning %'s of these coaches, but not SEC winning %? Why? Because it doesn't help you, so you ignore it.

SEC winning % @ UK
Henderson .439
Cohen .426

And since we are throwing out completely useless stats, I'll add one:

SEC Winning % @ MSU
Cohen .454
Henderson .500

You also point out that Henderson "with a CWS caliber team" only managed to finish .500 in the league. But somehow fail to mention that in Cohen's only CWS appearance in 8 years at MSU, he led MSU to a 16-14 SEC mark. So 16-14 is world beater and 15-15 is too far below our standards.

And I'm not arguing for Henderson. I'm just pointing out that posting cherry-picked stats really doesn't mean anything.


More facts:

Kentucky head coaches!

At Kentucky:

John Cohen- .609 winning percentage including two rebuilding seasons.

Nick Mingione- .631 winning percentage

Gary Henderson- .565 winning percentage

Henderson only had one winning SEC season at Kentucky and one .500 season. Even at MSU with an Omaha caliber team he managed to finish only .500.

Hiring Gary Henderson would mean hiring a coach with a worse winning percentage than Cohen and Mingione and a guy with ONE winning season in SEC play in his career.


I love our team and I love the season we are having- but when you have 19 come from behind wins and a coach with a track record like Henderson's add in the fact that we had to have a miracle walk-off against FSU to not go 0-2 in the regional- I don't think anyone can convince me that what we did this year is in any way sustainable over a longer period of time.

[dawgs]

You got to love stats. They will tell you anything you want them to. Especially when you cherry pick what's best for your argument.

You compare overall winning %'s of these coaches, but not SEC winning %? Why? Because it doesn't help you, so you ignore it.

SEC winning % @ UK
Henderson .439
Cohen .426

And since we are throwing out completely useless stats, I'll add one:

SEC Winning % @ MSU
Cohen .454
Henderson .500

You also point out that Henderson "with a CWS caliber team" only managed to finish .500 in the league. But somehow fail to mention that in Cohen's only CWS appearance in 8 years at MSU, he led MSU to a 16-14 SEC mark. So 16-14 is world beater and 15-15 is too far below our standards.

And I'm not arguing for Henderson. I'm just pointing out that posting cherry-picked stats really doesn't mean anything.

I'd say Cohen left the Kentucky program a lot better off than he found it, which likely accounts for the similar sec winning %.

[basedog]

You got to love stats. They will tell you anything you want them to. Especially when you cherry pick what's best for your argument.

You compare overall winning %'s of these coaches, but not SEC winning %? Why? Because it doesn't help you, so you ignore it.

SEC winning % @ UK
Henderson .439
Cohen .426

And since we are throwing out completely useless stats, I'll add one:

SEC Winning % @ MSU
Cohen .454
Henderson .500

You also point out that Henderson "with a CWS caliber team" only managed to finish .500 in the league. But somehow fail to mention that in Cohen's only CWS appearance in 8 years at MSU, he led MSU to a 16-14 SEC mark. So 16-14 is world beater and 15-15 is too far below our standards.

And I'm not arguing for Henderson. I'm just pointing out that posting cherry-picked stats really doesn't mean anything.

Dang MadDawg, you bringing some serious heat, that was well played and says a lot. Wow, kinda surprising or eye opener indeed. I like you and others, I don't really have a favorite to be our HC, I have said this more than once, we our a baseball school, we have always been and we always will be.

+1

[msstate7]

I'd say Cohen left the Kentucky program a lot better off than he found it, which likely accounts for the similar sec winning %.

No idea who is to blame for the 3 years at Kentucky following Cohen's departure, but sec record was 33-57. Henderson's 4th year was Kentucky's most wins in their baseball history. No coach in Kentucky history has been to back-to-back regionals. Kentucky has only been to 7 regionals in their history. Pretty poor program

[smootness]

You got to love stats. They will tell you anything you want them to. Especially when you cherry pick what's best for your argument.

You compare overall winning %'s of these coaches, but not SEC winning %? Why? Because it doesn't help you, so you ignore it.

SEC winning % @ UK
Henderson .439
Cohen .426

And since we are throwing out completely useless stats, I'll add one:

SEC Winning % @ MSU
Cohen .454
Henderson .500

You also point out that Henderson "with a CWS caliber team" only managed to finish .500 in the league. But somehow fail to mention that in Cohen's only CWS appearance in 8 years at MSU, he led MSU to a 16-14 SEC mark. So 16-14 is world beater and 15-15 is too far below our standards.

And I'm not arguing for Henderson. I'm just pointing out that posting cherry-picked stats really doesn't mean anything.

Sure, you can manipulate stats. But Cohen's first 2 years were 25-29 (9-20) and 23-33 (6-24) coming on the heels of Polk's last season, which was 23-33 (9-21).

Cohen's last year at UK, meanwhile, was 44-19 (16-14).

Aside from one random year, Henderson sat at middling to bad at UK. He finished better than 4th in the East one time. Cohen, after his first two years, sat right around good to quite good with the exception of 2015. Finished better than 4th in the West 5 of his last 6 years.

Cohen took a garbage UK program and got them to good, and Henderson sort of maintained but dropped them a bit. Cohen took an MSU program in the midst of a garbage stretch and got them to consistently good, sometimes very good.

[msstate7]

Sure, you can manipulate stats. But Cohen's first 2 years were 25-29 (9-20) and 23-33 (6-24) coming on the heels of Polk's last season, which was 23-33 (9-21).

Cohen's last year at UK, meanwhile, was 44-19 (16-14).

Aside from one random year, Henderson sat at middling to bad at UK. He finished better than 4th in the East one time. Cohen, after his first two years, sat right around good to quite good with the exception of 2015. Finished better than 4th in the West 5 of his last 6 years.

All true, but the year in between Cohen's 2 regionals at Kentucky, he finished 5th in the east.

Also of note, while Henderson was at Kentucky and Cohen at state, you could make a strong case that the best 3 programs in the sec were all in the east. During this period...

Vandy - 3 CWS (1 champ) finishes, 2 SR finishes
S. Carolina - 3 CWS (2 champ) finishes, 2 SR
Florida - 5 CWS, 1 SR

In 2011, South Carolina beat Florida for natty

So essentially, Henderson at Kentucky was like Mullen at state trying to compete in the sec West.

[smootness]

All true, but the year in between Cohen's 2 regionals at Kentucky, he finished 5th in the east.

...with a record of 13-16-1, which is still better than Henderson's SEC record in 4 of his first 5 years there.

Once Henderson had his full stamp on the program, they were the definition of middling - 25 losses every year, between 14-16 and 15-15 every year, 4th in the East every year, and 1 regional in 3 years.

In Cohen's last 5 years at State, he was below 16-14 in the SEC once. He went to 4 regionals, 2 SRs, and the national title series in the CWS.

Henderson, in his 4th year at Kentucky, basically got them to just about where Cohen had them in year 3 despite Cohen inheriting a much worse situation. And then they never won more than 37 games again over his next/last 4 years. Cohen had a dip in year 4 and then won 44 again in year 5.

I don't consider Cohen an elite coach. Yet it still seems pretty obvious that Cohen's record is quite a bit better than Henderson's, all things considered.

[Cooterpoot]

You Henderson guys aren't going to end up happy.

[Liverpooldawg]

Stop with the Stansbury comparison. Stans completely lost his program- COMPLETELY. And he's done nothing since he left. It was time for him to go. Had he stayed, the NCAA was going to be all over us. And as far as Dan, he didn't do much better than Sherrill and he had an extra game to work with every year. His record against good teams was atrocious. And this group of players we've got was because he went juco heavy out of necessity because we couldn't recruit HS kids. We got lucky the juco pool was deep.
Gary has been doing this for a couple months, not years like those guys. He's not an automatic hire. He's a consideration and he's behind coaches with a proven track record.

That's just it. Henderson IS doing it.

[Liverpooldawg]

You Henderson guys aren't going to end up happy.

I really don't care. From what I'm hearing it may be a moot point anyway.

[Jarius]

You got to love stats. They will tell you anything you want them to. Especially when you cherry pick what's best for your argument.

You compare overall winning %'s of these coaches, but not SEC winning %? Why? Because it doesn't help you, so you ignore it.

SEC winning % @ UK
Henderson .439
Cohen .426

And since we are throwing out completely useless stats, I'll add one:

SEC Winning % @ MSU
Cohen .454
Henderson .500

You also point out that Henderson "with a CWS caliber team" only managed to finish .500 in the league. But somehow fail to mention that in Cohen's only CWS appearance in 8 years at MSU, he led MSU to a 16-14 SEC mark. So 16-14 is world beater and 15-15 is too far below our standards.

And I'm not arguing for Henderson. I'm just pointing out that posting cherry-picked stats really doesn't mean anything.


Those are misleading. Kentucky was complete shit when Cohen took over and he had to build the talent up from ground zero. Henderson took a team Loaded with talent and got fired 8 years later after going to 2 regionals in 8 years. Also, we need a coach better than Cohen if we are going to get where we need to be. He was not good enough consistently.

[Cooterpoot]

I really don't care. From what I'm hearing it may be a moot point anyway.

What you're hearing is true. People are arguing over this for nothing.

[msstate7]

...with a record of 13-16-1, which is still better than Henderson's SEC record in 4 of his first 5 years there.

Once Henderson had his full stamp on the program, they were the definition of middling - 25 losses every year, between 14-16 and 15-15 every year, 4th in the East every year, and 1 regional in 3 years.

In Cohen's last 5 years at State, he was below 16-14 in the SEC once. He went to 4 regionals, 2 SRs, and the national title series in the CWS.

Henderson, in his 4th year at Kentucky, basically got them to just about where Cohen had them in year 3 despite Cohen inheriting a much worse situation. And then they never won more than 37 games again over his next/last 4 years. Cohen had a dip in year 4 and then won 44 again in year 5.

I don't consider Cohen an elite coach. Yet it still seems pretty obvious that Cohen's record is quite a bit better than Henderson's, all things considered.

Given a choice, I take Cohen over Henderson. With that said, Henderson at Kentucky was tougher than when Cohen was at Kentucky. Cohen's record while at state from 2011-2016 (threw out 1st 2 years) vs vandy, South Carolina, and Florida was 20-29 (.408). Now this is with Cohen being at a superior program. How much tougher would it be at Kentucky?

[Liverpooldawg]

Umm, Stans had NCAA issues and his program fell apart.

Stans had no NCAA issues. At least be truthfull.

[Cooterpoot]

Ya'll can argue over Cohen and Henderson all day. I prefer someone better than both of those guys.

[Cooterpoot]

Stans had no NCAA issues. At least be truthfull.

Ok.

[dawgoneyall]

I want Gautreau as head coach.

That can't happen without a couple more years as an assistant.

Only way that can happen is Henderson remain HC for those couple of years.

The details would be Cohen's job.

[Bulldog1]

Stop clinging to Stansbury and start supporting Howland.

[Liverpooldawg]

Stop clinging to Stansbury and start supporting Howland.

Mentioning Stans is not clinging to him. He has been gone for what, 8-9 years now? Come on mane. Howland is doing a remarkable job given what we had when he got here.

[preachermatt83]

Ya'll can argue over Cohen and Henderson all day. I prefer someone better than both of those guys.

+1

[smootness]

Given a choice, I take Cohen over Henderson. With that said, Henderson at Kentucky was tougher than when Cohen was at Kentucky. Cohen's record while at state from 2011-2016 (threw out 1st 2 years) vs vandy, South Carolina, and Florida was 20-29 (.408). Now this is with Cohen being at a superior program. How much tougher would it be at Kentucky?

Kentucky when Cohen left was better than State when Cohen arrived...by quite a bit. So I definitely disagree that Henderson had it harder at Kentucky than Cohen did.

Also, those weren't the only teams Kentucky was playing. In those 6 years, we apparently played those teams 49 times...so basically 8 per year. So we probably had series against those teams just about every year anyway...meaning our schedule like was likely even harder than Kentucky's since we also played all the West teams and played Tennessee/UGA/Missouri less.

[5049]

Guys, it's simple. Ask yourself: can Henderson win a national championship here? His questionable in-game decisions on an every game basis and past success as a head coach lead me to believe he can't. We've invested millions into a new stadium and facilities, and we have one of the most passionate fanbases in the country. We deserve a national championship, and GH isn't the guy who can get us there.

Guess we'll find out in a couple weeks

[Todd4State]

You got to love stats. They will tell you anything you want them to. Especially when you cherry pick what's best for your argument.

You compare overall winning %'s of these coaches, but not SEC winning %? Why? Because it doesn't help you, so you ignore it.

SEC winning % @ UK
Henderson .439
Cohen .426

And since we are throwing out completely useless stats, I'll add one:

SEC Winning % @ MSU
Cohen .454
Henderson .500

You also point out that Henderson "with a CWS caliber team" only managed to finish .500 in the league. But somehow fail to mention that in Cohen's only CWS appearance in 8 years at MSU, he led MSU to a 16-14 SEC mark. So 16-14 is world beater and 15-15 is too far below our standards.

And I'm not arguing for Henderson. I'm just pointing out that posting cherry-picked stats really doesn't mean anything.


Speaking of cherry picking stats that's exactly what you did using SEC winning percentages and did it without context- Kentucky was a dumpster fire when Cohen took over. Having back to back seven win seasons will kill your winning percentage. Much like Cohen's first two years at MSU.


Cohen's last three seasons at Kentucky- .544 winning percentage including winning one of Kentucky's few SEC baseball titles. Henderson had a winning percentage of .439 in SEC games taking over a better situation. Here's another "cherry picked" stat- SEC winning seasons at Kentucky- Cohen 2, Gary Henderson 1. And that's despite Henderson inheriting a better situation and having almost twice as many years as Cohen to only get one more winning season- and he couldn't do it.


Cohen's SEC winning percentage after his first two years at MSU- .516. And four out of Cohen's last five seasons at MSU were winning seasons.

[shannondawg]

Cohen is getting paid to do the job, let him. If he doesn't do a good job , fire him. Simple enough?

[Jarius]

Cohen is getting paid to do the job, let him. If he doesn't do a good job , fire him. Simple enough?

It's a message board. Do you mind if we continue to talk about it? You know, kind of like message boards all across the world do....

[shannondawg]

Well that's my opinion>. If somebody asks me (and they seldom do) what is your opinion on the coaching situation, that would be my reply.

I rarely spend time thinking about things I have no control over.

Fair enough?

And with that being said, I probably know as much as anybody on here , who the next coach will be. I just know the man is going to earn his pay.

[Jarius]

Insinuating that everyone should just let him do his job and not have an opinion on a message board is a really silly opinion. If everyone did that in all sports on here we would have nothing to discuss.

[Todd4State]

Well that's my opinion>. If somebody asks me (and they seldom do) what is your opinion on the coaching situation, that would be my reply.

I rarely spend time thinking about things I have no control over.

Fair enough?

And with that being said, I probably know as much as anybody on here , who the next coach will be. I just know the man is going to earn his pay.

Well, no one asked your opinion on people posting opinions on a message board either and you still gave yours so I'm not sure what the difference is?

[shannondawg]

Where did I say anything freaking thing about people posting on the message board, I just stated mine.

Personally just for the record, I don't usually read yours, but i did because you quoted off mine.

[preachermatt83]

Where did I say anything freaking thing about people posting on the message board, I just stated mine.

Personally just for the record, I don't usually read yours, but i did because you quoted off mine.

You are missing some good info. Seriously

[shannondawg]

And thats your opinion.

[basedog]

And thats your opinion.

+ 1

[shannondawg]

People go to message boards for different things, I personally don't like criticism of players, coaches, plays ect. Not that I don't cuss some of them under by breath during games. Also these long drawn out threads about who the next coach ect are going to be. If it were a conversation I would excuse myself and find something else to do, cause frankly it bores the shit out of me because I know its pretty much all guessing, and partially I don't know who or what coach is being mentioned, same with recruiting as I just don't keep up with it.

Now I do like gossip, the saga of Canny and his phone sex, and the different takes on reseating of the stadiums and
enjoyed the bantering back and forth with 34 on Stansbury, who incidentally had a nice article on twitter this morning about him landing a 5 star, taking him out from under the noses of Kansas and the like, The quandary of what Cohen is going thru, but not who the next coach will be if not Henderson.
And I am not offended if no one wants to hear about Stan's last recruit. I personally like the fellow and am interested in his future success.

Well thats pretty much it. So if I don't hang on every word or click on your posts don't get upset. Different strokes for different folks.

[Todd4State]

People go to message boards for different things, I personally don't like criticism of players, coaches, plays ect. Not that I don't cuss some of them under by breath during games. Also these long drawn out threads about who the next coach ect are going to be. If it were a conversation I would excuse myself and find something else to do, cause frankly it bores the shit out of me because I know its pretty much all guessing, and partially I don't know who or what coach is being mentioned, same with recruiting as I just don't keep up with it.

Now I do like gossip, the saga of Canny and his phone sex, and the different takes on reseating of the stadiums and
enjoyed the bantering back and forth with 34 on Stansbury, who incidentally had a nice article on twitter this morning about him landing a 5 star, taking him out from under the noses of Kansas and the like, The quandary of what Cohen is going thru, but not who the next coach will be if not Henderson.
And I am not offended if no one wants to hear about Stan's last recruit. I personally like the fellow and am interested in his future success.

Well thats pretty much it. So if I don't hang on every word or click on your posts don't get upset. Different strokes for different folks.

Posts on a message board to tell people how much he isn't interested about what is posted on a message board. ^^^^

[shannondawg]

There ya go.

[gravedigger]

Synopsis- Ironically said it's unlikely to be Gary Henderson. Also said it's unlikely to be Butch Thompson.

Not that I agree completely, but I think the players preference is that he be retained an that will go a LONG way to helping Cohen decide. Your analysis is solid. Pragmatically speaking, Gary has done what it takes to be named.

My thought is a shorter term contract.