Question about Henderson's recruiting /MLB draft

[deadheaddawg]

So I just saw this stat about Kentucky

Their 13 picks this year are the most in the country.

Their 21 total picks in 2017/18 drafts are the most in the country.

Their12 total Top 10 round picks the past two drafts are the most in the country

Wouldn't those be his guys?

[msstate7]

Yes, those are his guys. Maybe most equate old with not a good recruiter. Pretty impressive... that blows our all world classes away

ETA... now if you can't coach em up, they're useless. Henderson had plenty of time to do his thing at Kentucky and failed. This thread is pretty damning for mingione (sp?)

[Todd4State]

Brad Bohannon was a big part of that too.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

To me, when a coach is consistently mediocre year after year, and a new coach comes in and immediately gets the team playing at a high level, it tells me the other coach was a decent recruiter but really bad at getting them to play at their potential. Same goes for any sport. Henderson is winning now because

1) the hitting coach (that he didn't hire) has the team crushing the ball and bailing out Hendersons' staff, 2) the freshman (that Henderson didn't sign) are really good, and 3) the upperclassman (that Henderson didn't recruit) are a tough bunch.

As you can probably tell, I think a lot of people are reading too much into this recent run. Henderson was handed a talented team, with a great hitting coach, and a fantastic never give up culture. All he did was not 17 it up. At Kentucky, he was handed a team that made the regionals 2 of the 3 years before he took over. What did he do in 8 seasons? Made 2 regionals, and only finished higher than 4th in the East once. Only finished above .500 in conference play twice.

Henderson was handed a decent team, proceed to do nothing with it, and even though he had 4 seasons of NOTHING but 100% his own recruits he still was below average. Now I'm supposed to believe he is the best choice for the program because our team is hot? It's not like he's a young guy who's learned a lot since Kentucky either.

If we hire Henderson, the team will get worse. We'll have the same mediocre pitching Kentucky had under him (Oh yeah, their team ERA never finished higher than 7th while he was there. What a pitching guru...), with the same mediocre culture that lacks the fight Cohen and Cann put into these guys. To think this recent run to the supers is the real Henderson is ridiculous.

Which matters more: A) 3 months of good baseball with this team or B) 8 years of bad baseball as the head man at an SEC program? You'd be a fool to say A) tells us more than B). He's proven to be a bad HC. I'm extremely happy we've gotten this far, and full credit goes to Henderson for keeping the team together after Cann. However, anyone saying he's the best HC we can get is a fool. Butch Thompson is a better pitching coach and developer of talent, and he's gotten his team just as far. Not advocating for him, just saying he's an example of someone we could get who'd be better. Rant over, I'll go back to lurking

[msstate7]

To me, when a coach is consistently mediocre year after year, and a new coach comes in and immediately gets the team playing at a high level, it tells me the other coach was a decent recruiter but really bad at getting them to play at their potential. Same goes for any sport. Henderson is winning now because

1) the hitting coach (that he didn't hire) has the team crushing the ball and bailing out Hendersons' staff, 2) the freshman (that Henderson didn't sign) are really good, and 3) the upperclassman (that Henderson didn't recruit) are a tough bunch.

As you can probably tell, I think a lot of people are reading too much into this recent run. Henderson was handed a talented team, with a great hitting coach, and a fantastic never give up culture. All he did was not 17 it up. At Kentucky, he was handed a team that made the regionals 2 of the 3 years before he took over. What did he do in 8 seasons? Made 2 regionals, and only finished higher than 4th in the East once. Only finished above .500 in conference play twice.

Henderson was handed a decent team, proceed to do nothing with it, and even though he had 4 seasons of NOTHING but 100% his own recruits he still was below average. Now I'm supposed to believe he is the best choice for the program because our team is hot? It's not like he's a young guy who's learned a lot since Kentucky either.

If we hire Henderson, the team will get worse. We'll have the same mediocre pitching Kentucky had under him (Oh yeah, their team ERA never finished higher than 7th while he was there. What a pitching guru...), with the same mediocre culture that lacks the fight Cohen and Cann put into these guys. To think this recent run to the supers is the real Henderson is ridiculous.

Which matters more: A) 3 months of good baseball with this team or B) 8 years of bad baseball as the head man at an SEC program? You'd be a fool to say A) tells us more than B). He's proven to be a bad HC. I'm extremely happy we've gotten this far, and full credit goes to Henderson for keeping the team together after Cann. However, anyone saying he's the best HC we can get is a fool. Butch Thompson is a better pitching coach and developer of talent, and he's gotten his team just as far. Not advocating for him, just saying he's an example of someone we could get who'd be better. Rant over, I'll go back to lurking

I don't want Henderson, but judging someone on what they do at Kentucky may be unfair. Kentucky just doesn't seem to be able to be a consistent winner for whatever reason. Here's their best records the last 14 years:

44-17 (20-10) Cohen
45-18 (18-12) Henderson
43-23 (19-11) mingione

After every one of these seasons, they missed the tourney the next year.

Again though, I want someone other than Henderson

[BrunswickDawg]

Yes, those are his guys. Maybe most equate old with not a good recruiter. Pretty impressive... that blows our all world classes away

ETA... now if you can't coach em up, they're useless. Henderson had plenty of time to do his thing at Kentucky and failed. This thread is pretty damning for mingione (sp?)

But did Henderson really fail? Look at Kentucky baseball history, prior to the arrival of Henderson in 2003 as PC they had been to 2 regionals in their history. 2. The school's baseball program is more of a laughing stock then their football program.
Cohen arrives in 2004, with Hendo as pitching coach and goes 175-112-1 (.609) and 63-85-1 (.426) in SEC play, had 2 Top 20 seasons and went to 2 regionals in 5 years and produced 3 players who made MLB.
Hendo takes over in 2009, goes 258-199 (.565) and 105-134 (.439) in the SEC with 2 Top 20 seasons, while going to 2 Regionals in 8 years and put 3 players in MLB. Minge then took Hendo's team to a Super last year and a #9 ranking.

Hendo won on average 2.5 fewer games per season then Cohen at Kentucky, but had a better SEC winning percentage.

And, I'm not saying we should hire the guy - but we could do a helluva lot worse than having him for a couple of years while someone like Jake is groomed to take over.

[MarketingBully]

I think Gautreau and the leadership of the upper classmen had more to do with this run then Henderson. As far as talent is concerned, don’t tell Shotgun that as he doesn’t think we are talented even though odds are good we make Omaha. Everyone knows my thoughts on Henderson but I’ll throw him a bone. If we win the CWS, give him a one year contract.

[msstate7]

But did Henderson really fail? Look at Kentucky baseball history, prior to the arrival of Henderson in 2003 as PC they had been to 2 regionals in their history. 2. The school's baseball program is more of a laughing stock then their football program.
Cohen arrives in 2004, with Hendo as pitching coach and goes 175-112-1 (.609) and 63-85-1 (.426) in SEC play, had 2 Top 20 seasons and went to 2 regionals in 5 years and produced 3 players who made MLB.
Hendo takes over in 2009, goes 258-199 (.565) and 105-134 (.439) in the SEC with 2 Top 20 seasons, while going to 2 Regionals in 8 years and put 3 players in MLB. Minge then took Hendo's team to a Super last year and a #9 ranking.

Hendo won on average 2.5 fewer games per season then Cohen at Kentucky, but had a better SEC winning percentage.

Failed may have been a bad word choice. How about he "failed" to upgrade Kentucky to a consistent winner?

[BrunswickDawg]

Failed may have been a bad word choice. How about he "failed" to upgrade Kentucky to a consistent winner?

I'd say "failed to advance them beyond what Cohen had been able to do", but your statement is accurate too.
Although both are probably akin to saying "Bill Belichick couldn't make the Cleveland Browns winners" - a great coach can only make a turd program get to a certain level sometimes.

[Jack Lambert]

What's more amazing is they have only been to the NCAA tournament once since 2014.

[Gutter Cobreh]

I think Gautreau and the leadership of the upper classmen had more to do with this run then Henderson. As far as talent is concerned, don’t tell Shotgun that as he doesn’t think we are talented even though odds are good we make Omaha. Everyone knows my thoughts on Henderson but I’ll throw him a bone. If we win the CWS, give him a one year contract.

Deadheadsawg is providing you facts and you respond with your thoughts and feelings! Please return with some facts that back up your claims.

It amazes me here that Cann was an outstanding coach because he took us to the Supers last year; Henderson does the same yet he's worthless.

The narrative is Henderson sucked at UK and couldn't recruit, yet here are facts that show the talent was indeed brought in.

Who is named coach at this point is irrelevant, as the constant Henderson bashers can not simply acknowledge or give credit - instead I read rebuttals around "thoughts" and "feelings". Makes no sense to me!

[Jack Lambert]

Deadheadsawg is providing you facts and you respond with your thoughts and feelings! Please return with some facts that back up your claims.

It amazes me here that Cann was an outstanding coach because he took us to the Supers last year; Henderson does the same yet he's worthless.

The narrative is Henderson sucked at UK and couldn't recruit, yet here are facts that show the talent was indeed brought in.

Who is named coach at this point is irrelevant, as the constant Henderson bashers can not simply acknowledge or give credit - instead I read rebuttals around "thoughts" and "feelings". Makes no sense to me!

I really don't care who they hire. I trust Cohen and the next great coach is out there. The problem most have with Henderson is his age and he got fire from KY. Those two things blinds them. I can assure you after this season some school will be looking at him to take over their program.

It will not be Miss State. Cohen has already set the bar and he has to get close to it.

My problem with Henderson is his during the game pitching decisions. I am not a baseball guy but it just baffles me.