Anyone care to talk about how far down we fallen academically

[dawgman15]

Looking at WSJ we have fallen quite a bit over the past few years. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2018#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

[Bully13]

Booooooooooooooooooooo. Horrible thread choice. Booooooooooooooooooooo.

[dawgman15]

Well I am currently a student and I would like for my degree to actually be worth something

[skadoosh14]

Well I am currently a student and I would like for my degree to actually be worth something

A degree is a degree. Just don't major is something stupid.

[bostondawg]

This current administration has not been good for MSU academically. There are a few major accomplishments to highlight, for sure. But our rankings have steadily fallen since Keenum took over. This is a major cause of concern to me as a new alumni who hopes to be a good contributor financially one day.

[DanDority]

What is your major in? That is what is going to matter. More than the University, by the way I didn't see Millsaps on the list, therefore I would not put much stock in the list!

[RocketDawg]

A degree is a degree. Just don't major is something stupid.

No it's not.

[DanDority]

A degree is a degree. Just don't major is something stupid.


Bingo!

[dawgman15]

I am majoring in civil engineering.

[Madisonmd]

Looking at WSJ we have fallen quite a bit over the past few years. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2018#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

It's a topic worthy of discussion. Has Keenum led effectively?

[BeastMan]

Well I am currently a student and I would like for my degree to actually be worth something

The man/woman make the degree. Not the other way around. A degree might (and that’s doubtful) get you an interview but getting hired and getting promotions/raises will have nothing to do with your piece of paper. Besides gaining entry into a field, degrees are worthless today.

[skadoosh14]

No it's not.

No, it usually is - depending on the degree. If you actually think a business administration degree from the University of Evansville is worth more than one from State just because it's 200 ranks higher on some list then you really need to get some real world experience.

[Madisonmd]

We can put on maroon blinders if we so desire , but the descent on that list is troubling.

[BrunswickDawg]

Look at the methodology and metrics they use to rank schools and you will see that schools like MSU stand little chance in ranking highly.
Some of those are things like:
-Percentage of international students
-Spending per student
-Avg class size
-Number subjects taught
-Student engagement survey results
-Number of published articles per prof
-teacher salary
-grad rates
-student debt ratio

This ranking has little to do with student performances, staff performance, or long term outcomes of the work of the university. It's basically about money.

[DanDority]

No it's not.

How so? I have a degree in Animal Husbandry worked in that field for 10 years, then I wanted to move closer to home and found nothing so I became a teacher. Taught for 1.5 years, then was asked to become the asst. principal at an elementary school.

[RocketDawg]

This current administration has not been good for MSU academically. There are a few major accomplishments to highlight, for sure. But our rankings have steadily fallen since Keenum took over. This is a major cause of concern to me as a new alumni who hopes to be a good contributor financially one day.

Well, that's why I keep harping that we need to be more selective academically. As it is now, virtually anybody can get accepted to Mississippi State ... and in many cases, they will graduate, which dilutes everybody's degree. Other public schools can do it ... UNC, UVa, Florida, ... the list goes on and on ... so why can't we? Some keep saying we're the "Peoples' University". BS. Not everybody is qualified nor should they be in college. College is supposed to be difficult, not just an extension of high school.

BTW ... you're a new alumnus, unless you're a female, in which case you're a new alumna. Alumni is the plural of alumnus. :)

[Thick]

I am majoring in civil engineering.

When you graduate, contact me. I know the owner of a rather large company in Jackson that loves MSU engineering grads.

[RocketDawg]

No, it usually is - depending on the degree. If you actually think a business administration degree from the University of Evansville is worth more than one from State just because it's 200 ranks higher on some list then you really need to get some real world experience.


I'm not talking about schools nobody's ever heard of. Tell me that a degree from Princeton or Harvard isn't worth more. And throw in other public schools too if you like ... UVa, UNC, etc.

I've had plenty of "real world" experience, believe me. I retired 9 years ago after 43 years in the aerospace industry.

[vv83]

A degree is a degree. Just don't major is something stupid.

Wowwwww this is possibly the most false statement I've seen on here

[Bothrops]

We may have fallen, but after scrolling through the rankings here, I can tell you that this poll isn't worth two dead flies.

[DownwardDawg]

This is a sports board. We are playing in a Super Regional. Please move this thread to bovine scatology board.

[ShotgunDawg]

The man/woman make the degree. Not the other way around. A degree might (and that’s doubtful) get you an interview but getting hired and getting promotions/raises will have nothing to do with your piece of paper. Besides gaining entry into a field, degrees are worthless today.

Unless they are from an Ivy League schools, Stanford, Northwestern, the public Ivies (Michigan, Cal, UCLA, UVA, UNC, Texas, etc) or the Little Ivies (Williams College, Middlebury, etc)

All else are basically equal & it may actually help you if they are good at sports

[5049]

Well, that's why I keep harping that we need to be more selective academically. As it is now, virtually anybody can get accepted to Mississippi State ...
Do you have any idea why? Or are you just throwing out bad information again because that's what you heard?

And no, they don't all graduate unless their degree is in nonsense

[Bothrops]

There are some major name universities on that list that are in the 400's. This poll is incompetent.

[RocketDawg]

This is a sports board. We are playing in a Super Regional. Please move this thread to bovine scatology board.

No, wrong. Look up under the button for "New Post" ... it clearly says Elitedawgs is a board for "discussion of all things MSU", and what could possibly be more important than academics at MSU, or any other university?

[RocketDawg]

Do you have any idea why? Or are you just throwing out bad information again because that's what you heard?

And no, they don't all graduate unless their degree is in nonsense

No, why don't you tell me all about that court case that's a bunch of hooey?

I didn't say all of them graduate ... but if even one graduates that doesn't deserve to, then that's a tragedy. A university is an academic institution first and foremost; sports is secondary.

[Schultzy]

No, wrong. Look up under the button for "New Post" ... it clearly says Elitedawgs is a board for "discussion of all things MSU", and what could possibly be more important than academics at MSU, or any other university?
Sports...even the Ivy League schools have educated themselves into imbecility.

[RocketDawg]

Unless they are from an Ivy League schools, Stanford, Northwestern, the public Ivies (Michigan, Cal, UCLA, UVA, UNC, Texas, etc) or the Little Ivies (Williams College, Middlebury, etc)

All else are basically equal & it may actually help you if they are good at sports


Does that mean that students from Mississippi are not as smart as those from, say, Texas? Why are the "Public Ivies" so good? They're just public schools, just like MSU and Ole Miss.

[deadheaddawg]

A degree is a degree. Just don't major is something stupid.

Wow.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised our ranking is dropping.

[skadoosh14]

Wow.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised our ranking is dropping.

I graduated with a 3.9 in business administration from State. The COO of my company has a bachelors of art history from USF. My office manager - the lady who makes sure we have office supplies and comfortable chairs - went to Vandy. But yes, our rank is dropping because I understand that no one gives a shit about your degree if you're bad at your job.

Unless you're in a specialized field or went to an Ivy League school then a degree is a degree.

[Liverpooldawg]

Looking at WSJ we have fallen quite a bit over the past few years. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2018#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

My advice is not to put too much stock in that. MSU will give you what you need to establish yourself in a career path, provided you aren't a total jerk or otherwise unemployable. What you do with it from there is up to you.

[5049]

No, why don't you tell me all about that court case that's a bunch of hooey?

I didn't say all of them graduate ... but if even one graduates that doesn't deserve to, then that's a tragedy. A university is an academic institution first and foremost; sports is secondary.
If you're going to ignore facts then carry on, live in your own world

[ShotgunDawg]

Does that mean that students from Mississippi are not as smart as those from, say, Texas? Why are the "Public Ivies" so good? They're just public schools, just like MSU and Ole Miss.

Nah, it's the acceptance rate.

MSU's acceptance rate is 71%
Ole Miss' Acceptance rate is 81% which is terrible

Texas' acceptance rate is 39.2%
UVA 29%
UNC 26%
Michigan 28.6%
Cal 17%
UCLA 18%

Harvard 5%
Stanford 4%

If you want to know how good a school is, just search their acceptance rate. It's probably an equal education, but the average student at those schools had much better test scores & grades.

[Gutter Cobreh]

I graduated with a 3.9 in business administration from State. The COO of my company has a bachelors of art history from USF. My office manager - the lady who makes sure we have office supplies and comfortable chairs - went to Vandy. But yes, our rank is dropping because I understand that no one gives a shit about your degree if you?re bad at your job.

Unless you?re in a specialized field or went to an Ivy League school then a degree is a degree.

Don't give a "real world" example that blows their view out of the water. What you stated is true, especially in the age of technology where I can damn near graduate from any school in the country without leaving my house.

A degree (unless specialized or from an Ivy League) only opens the door and gets a box checked on the application for you to qualify to post for a position. Where you graduated from has no bearing on if you land the job, unless the firm/company is small and has a preference for certain graduates (aka w/ Thick volunteered to help with).

[Westdawg]

I have a buddy that has helped assess rankings like these in the past. He isn't a grad of State. He said one of the criteria they used to ascertain was by polling some of the major companies in certain work force sectors and find out where their recent hires were grads from. A lot of MSU grads are from MS and they end up staying in MS. Lots of these major companies hire from across the country and to big metro areas. Truth is that most MS kids that go to MSU are content with staying in state and as a result don't get as big of salaries or work at larger companies in their field. My friend also told me that a large portion of our grads can stack up with grads of similar fields in terms of skill, Ed, and competency, they just don't feel the need/desire to leave the state for work.

[BeardoMSU]

I graduated with a 3.9 in business administration from State.

I'm sure that was tough***

I kid, I kid.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Nah, it's the acceptance rate.

MSU's acceptance rate is 71%
Ole Miss' Acceptance rate is 81% which is terrible

Texas' acceptance rate is 39.2%
UVA 29%
UNC 26%
Michigan 28.6%
Cal 17%
UCLA 18%

Harvard 5%
Stanford 4%

If you want to know how good a school is, just search their acceptance rate. It's probably an equal education, but the average student at those schools had much better test scores & grades.

I agree, but this also goes back to the location of the school. Rural MS has to be a bit more liberal in their qualifications or it would go bankrupt. Also, tuition is still dirt cheap compared to other like-sized institutions. It's amazing how cheap tuition is, even for out-of-state students.

[skadoosh14]

I'm sure that was tough***

I kid, I kid.

I mean it was challenging for me at times, but if I was smart I'd have been a doctor.

[Bully13]

Good degrees from "pedigree" schools gets your feet in the door. That's it. What happens over the next 4 decades is up to the individual to learn, listen, work hard and be a difference maker. Work ethic and attitude cannot be replaced by the name of the university on your transcript.

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

When you graduate, contact me. I know the owner of a rather large company in Jackson that loves MSU engineering grads.

I always wanted to know who owned MDOT.***

[Fred Garvin]

It?s a legit question. I serve on the advisory board of one engineering departments. One of the big things that has affected our ranking is the ever decreasing funding from the state. Not to go down the rabbit hole of taxation philosophy and Mississippi?s economy, but Mississippi continues to trail in funding and professor?s salaries compared to our neighbors and even moreso to the country. Those have a big impact on scoring that I don?t see solved anytime soon.

[I seen it dawg]

When you graduate, contact me. I know the owner of a rather large company in Jackson that loves MSU engineering grads.

Dawgman15.....this right here is how the big boy real world works. Enjoy your time in school and stop reading polls and lists. Learn as much as you can in your field and that makes your degree valuable. Not the name of the school.

The best way to get the best jobs is being likeable, professional, extremely competent in your field, and mature. And network your ass off with badass people like Thick. That's how the big boy real world works... I know of what I speak grasshopper.

[Bubb Rubb]

This current administration has not been good for MSU academically. There are a few major accomplishments to highlight, for sure. But our rankings have steadily fallen since Keenum took over. This is a major cause of concern to me as a new alumni who hopes to be a good contributor financially one day.

You are not an alumni. If you are male, you are an alumnus. If your significant other is a female graduate, she is an alumna. If she graduated with a group of girlfriends, they're called alumnae. All of you together, as a group, are alumni.

The more you know.

[Ezsoil]

Nah, it's the acceptance rate.

MSU's acceptance rate is 71%
Ole Miss' Acceptance rate is 81% which is terrible

Texas' acceptance rate is 39.2%
UVA 29%
UNC 26%
Michigan 28.6%
Cal 17%
UCLA 18%

Harvard 5%
Stanford 4%

If you want to know how good a school is, just search their acceptance rate. It's probably an equal education, but the average student at those schools had much better test scores & grades.


I?ll call BS on acceptance rates...as a school board member of one of the largest and most competitive districts in Texas,I can speak from experience. the acceptance rate is skewed. The acceptance at the University of Texas and Texas A&M starts with the edict that the top 10% of any public school MUST be admitted. This applies to the best suburban schools as well as the inner city schools then you throw in the diversity set asides and the typical freshman class of 15,000 has very few slots left for all the students who attended private schools and who finished outside the top 10% of their class...and keep in mind most of the larger schools have 900 graduating seniors. So to make a statement that acceptance rates are based on a consistent merit based standard is simply not true.

[I seen it dawg]

Don't you bring all that knowledge from experience up in here!

[skadoosh14]

You are not an alumni. If you are male, you are an alumnus. If your significant other is a female graduate, she is an alumna. If she graduated with a group of girlfriends, they're called alumnae. All of you together, as a group, are alumni.

The more you know.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/191/035/135.png

[Dawgbite]

A degree is a key that will open a lot of doors, but once you get through that door, it's up to you. A dumbass slacker with a degree is still going to be a dumbass slacker. If you are smart and driven then you will be successful regardless of what's on that piece of paper. There are some specialized degrees that are exceptions but only the smart and driven achieve those degrees. Over the years I have dealt with, interviewed, and worked with MSU engineering graduates that are an embarrassment to the education system but thankfully they were few and far between. It's not just MSU grads but several other prominent schools. I was amazed that a person could graduate with an engineering degree and not have enough common sense to get out of the rain.

[IMissJack]

Looking at WSJ we have fallen quite a bit over the past few years. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2018#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats

It is not a good look for us. As someone that has lived out of state for quite a while, it gets embarrassing. For people that do not believe this kind of thing matters, and a degree is a degree, you are wrong. Large companies absolutely look at this kind of thing. I'm not saying that an MSU student can't be as successful as anyone else, but it could affect the opening of the first door in a career. After that, your career is usually based on experience. However, we don't want our school to get a bad reputation with recruiters. We seem to have leadership that is primarily interested in increasing attendance. When you have that mindset and some of the lowest admission standards in the country, you have potential for watering down the quality of the education.

[IMissJack]

I have a buddy that has helped assess rankings like these in the past. He isn't a grad of State. He said one of the criteria they used to ascertain was by polling some of the major companies in certain work force sectors and find out where their recent hires were grads from. A lot of MSU grads are from MS and they end up staying in MS. Lots of these major companies hire from across the country and to big metro areas. Truth is that most MS kids that go to MSU are content with staying in state and as a result don't get as big of salaries or work at larger companies in their field. My friend also told me that a large portion of our grads can stack up with grads of similar fields in terms of skill, Ed, and competency, they just don't feel the need/desire to leave the state for work.
I'll just say this, my experience is just the opposite. Most of the people I graduated with, had to go out of state to get better jobs with large companies. I don't think MS is creating enough college level jobs to support the majority of grads from the 3 major schools every year.

[jdwhite]

Nah, it's the acceptance rate.

MSU's acceptance rate is 71%
Ole Miss' Acceptance rate is 81% which is terrible

Texas' acceptance rate is 39.2%
UVA 29%
UNC 26%
Michigan 28.6%
Cal 17%
UCLA 18%

Harvard 5%
Stanford 4%

If you want to know how good a school is, just search their acceptance rate. It's probably an equal education, but the average student at those schools had much better test scores & grades.

Texas acceptance rate is so low because they are land locked in Austin and simply don't have anywhere to put any more students on campus. There are several other UT system schools within 80 miles of Austin which pick up the overflow.

After I retired from the Army I worked as a contractor for both large and small companies for the next 20 years and not once was I asked where my degree was from. They just required I have one. By the way I worked in the IT and Logistics Automation fields and my degrees are in PE and Ag Ed. No one cares where your degree or your GPA once you get your foot in the door and do your job well.

[Bothrops]

I'll just say this, my experience is just the opposite. Most of the people I graduated with, had to go out of state to get better jobs with large companies. I don't think MS is creating enough college level jobs to support the majority of grads from the 3 major schools every year.

This is true. Mississippi has been building its future on manufacturing, which is really good for a lot of folks that would otherwise not have that type of income and benefits provided. But the tech industry (where the big money is) has set up shop elsewhere, and won't be coming here, unless somebody starts something up big on Mississippi soil. It's really unfortunate, but the state was at one time headed in this direction and got sidetracked.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Look at the methodology and metrics they use to rank schools and you will see that schools like MSU stand little chance in ranking highly.
Some of those are things like:
-Percentage of international students
-Spending per student
-Avg class size
-Number subjects taught
-Student engagement survey results
-Number of published articles per prof
-teacher salary
-grad rates
-student debt ratio

This ranking has little to do with student performances, staff performance, or long term outcomes of the work of the university. It's basically about money.

These rankings are rigged to mind-f**k kids and parents into paying for bullshiit education at Northeastern schools - Middlebury, Smith, Carleton, Haverford, Colby, Vassar, and Bryn Mawr are basically worthless educational institutions. But they know that "rankings" keep them relevant, so they rig everything to game the rankings.

-Percentage of international students - Who Cares
-Spending per student - You charge $60K per student like SMU, I hope you do spend some on students
-Avg class size - You have 1,800 students like Coby College, you probably have tiny classes
-Number subjects taught - Some schools load up with every flavor of worthless liberal arts and sociology there is...as opposed to good old Mechanical Engineering
-Student engagement survey results - Bull butter number
-Number of published articles per prof - Bull butter number
-teacher salary - We are a low cost state, why pay New Jersey salaries
-grad rates - we are a State flagship school, we accept a higher percentage
-student debt ratio - We should be good on this, but how is this related to education

[Bothrops]

These rankings are rigged to mind-f**k kids and parents into paying for bullshiit education at Northeastern schools - Middlebury, Smith, Carleton, Haverford, Colby, Vassar, and Bryn Mawr are basically worthless educational institutions. But they know that "rankings" keep them relevant, so they rig everything to game the rankings.

-Percentage of international students - Who Cares
-Spending per student - You charge $60K per student like SMU, I hope you do spend some on students
-Avg class size - You have 1,800 students like Coby College, you probably have tiny classes
-Number subjects taught - Some schools load up with every flavor of worthless liberal arts and sociology there is...as opposed to good old Mechanical Engineering
-Student engagement survey results - Bull butter number
-Number of published articles per prof - Bull butter number
-teacher salary - We are a low cost state, why pay New Jersey salaries
-grad rates - we are a State flagship school, we accept a higher percentage
-student debt ratio - We should be good on this, but how is this related to education

There's a lot of truth to this, too.

[skadoosh14]

For people that do not believe this kind of thing matters, and a degree is a degree, you are wrong. Large companies absolutely look at this kind of thing. I'm not saying that an MSU student can't be as successful as anyone else, but it could affect the opening of the first door in a career.

Jesus, you Baby Boomers are annoying.


A college degrees is a prerequisite for the competitive workforce; the topic is irrelevant.

Okay, here's some data: http://news.gallup.com/poll/167546/business-leaders-say-knowledge-trumps-college-pedigree.aspx

54% of business professionals believe where someone went to college is either not very important or not at all important. 9% believe it's very important.

The overwhelming majority only care about the amount of knowledge the candidate has in the field and the candidate's applied skills in the field.

It is not 1972 anymore; everyone has a bachelors degree. Just because this school lets in less people in than that school doesn't mean this school will make better employees.

Here are some more peer reviewed studies that came to the same conclusion.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w7322
http://www.nber.org/papers/w17159
http://www.work2future.biz/images/techstudy_resume_03.pdf

Here's a quote from a guy who knows more than us


I also say: If you have the good fortune to choose among colleges, it is worth taking the process seriously. Obtain as much information as possible to evaluate the location, size and educational specialties of every school. But remember: the particular college degree will be of little consequence, especially after you?ve been in the labor force for more than a few years. - U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics regional commissioner Richard Holden

[ShotgunDawg]

I?ll call BS on acceptance rates...as a school board member of one of the largest and most competitive districts in Texas,I can speak from experience. the acceptance rate is skewed. The acceptance at the University of Texas and Texas A&M starts with the edict that the top 10% of any public school MUST be admitted. This applies to the best suburban schools as well as the inner city schools then you throw in the diversity set asides and the typical freshman class of 15,000 has very few slots left for all the students who attended private schools and who finished outside the top 10% of their class...and keep in mind most of the larger schools have 900 graduating seniors. So to make a statement that acceptance rates are based on a consistent merit based standard is simply not true.

Great post and makes great points.

While you make great points about why the acceptance rate is skewed, I do think it's a round about, litmus test as to how prestigious a school is.

[Commercecomet24]

Dawgman15.....this right here is how the big boy real world works. Enjoy your time in school and stop reading polls and lists. Learn as much as you can in your field and that makes your degree valuable. Not the name of the school.

The best way to get the best jobs is being likeable, professional, extremely competent in your field, and mature. And network your ass off with badass people like Thick. That's how the big boy real world works... I know of what I speak grasshopper.

Spot on! Best advice you can give a young un!

[BrunswickDawg]

These rankings are rigged to mind-f**k kids and parents into paying for bullshiit education at Northeastern schools - Middlebury, Smith, Carleton, Haverford, Colby, Vassar, and Bryn Mawr are basically worthless educational institutions. But they know that "rankings" keep them relevant, so they rig everything to game the rankings.

-Percentage of international students - Who Cares
-Spending per student - You charge $60K per student like SMU, I hope you do spend some on students
-Avg class size - You have 1,800 students like Coby College, you probably have tiny classes
-Number subjects taught - Some schools load up with every flavor of worthless liberal arts and sociology there is...as opposed to good old Mechanical Engineering
-Student engagement survey results - Bull butter number
-Number of published articles per prof - Bull butter number
-teacher salary - We are a low cost state, why pay New Jersey salaries
-grad rates - we are a State flagship school, we accept a higher percentage
-student debt ratio - We should be good on this, but how is this related to education

Exactly - Remember who the WSJ's audience is and that will tell you all you need to know about these rankings. When you actually look at it, its a whole lot of BS.

I can tell you this - almost 25 years into the working world - the only people who ask me where I went to school (which is pretty evident if you come in my office) are people trying to find a commonality for small talk or co-workers wanting to determine if they can talk sports smack. That's it. When I was in the museum part of my career - people were far more interested in the places you had worked and the projects/exhibits you had been a part of. When you got around to talking about schools, most of the time you were trying determine other people you might know (the museum field in the southeast is fairly tight-nit and small - everyone knows everyone). In government work - it's only about sports smack. No one gives shit about where your degree is from because really, have you ever heard of a college who prides themselves on developing great bureaucrats?

The only real discussion I've ever had in a job interview about what college I attended was for the first job I got out of grad school. I was interviewing with the city manager of a small north metro ATL city - it went something like this - "You went to MSU, but you are from Marietta, Ga? Aren't they an A&M and you majored in History? How did you wind up there?"

[bostondawg]

Good degrees from "pedigree" schools gets your feet in the door. That's it. What happens over the next 4 decades is up to the individual to learn, listen, work hard and be a difference maker. Work ethic and attitude cannot be replaced by the name of the university on your transcript.

I'll be honest, I have a lot of friends/coworkers who went to "pedigree" schools, and I think that degree has carried them through a lot more than that first door opening. From my time spent at one of these fancy schools, my opinion is that the top students at MSU are competitive with the top students up here. The average student, however, isn't even close. But I wouldn't hire a ton of these people that I'm around who went to fancy schools. But that degree carries farther than the first job. It will reap rewards forever.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Look at the methodology and metrics they use to rank schools and you will see that schools like MSU stand little chance in ranking highly.
Some of those are things like:
-Percentage of international students
-Spending per student
-Avg class size
-Number subjects taught
-Student engagement survey results
-Number of published articles per prof
-teacher salary
-grad rates
-student debt ratio

This ranking has little to do with student performances, staff performance, or long term outcomes of the work of the university. It's basically about money.

bingo.
I have yet to see any real life situation where an MSU degree anywhere in the southeast United States is seen as a bonus.
In my field and associated fields, MSU grads are like a sure thing for a good hire.

[msstate7]

Whether the ratings are valid or not, it begins to hurt bc most the public won't dig deep into them.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Also, hire anyone from Stanford.

[bostondawg]

In general, a degree is not "just" a degree. But degrees have diminishing returns. The gap between Harvard and MSU is much smaller than the gap between MSU and Delta State. With that said, I think that in most fields a degree from MSU can have you competitive in the workforce (provided that you are in fact hard-working and talented). But I will say that I thought my engineering degree from MSU had me underprepared for grad school. And that was okay--I made the effort to learn what I didn't know.

The greatest thing MSU gave me wasn't the knowledge my degree conveyed, but the way I "learned how to learn." MSU is a forgiving school, and I think the degree is sorta "what you make of it." Most majors at MSU probably have a low-effort way to get through with a 3.0 and get out without learning a ton. But most majors also have the freedom for really engaged students to make themselves the best they can be.

So perhaps my advice dawgman15 would be to be in the latter half of my previous sentence--be the student who does everything. Challenge yourself. Don't be that guy who just tries to use the lowest effort possible to get through and hope you can lean on some MSU network to get a job. MSU engineering is good, but it isn't good enough to expect that you'd get a good job as a below-average student. But it is good enough to set you up to go anywhere you want to go* if you try hard.

*It really depends on where you want to go, and your personality. If you want a job in the south, you're probably pretty good. I'm not a civil guy (I'm aerospace), but I'd imagine we'd have good connections at all the major places--big engineering companies, DOT, DOE, etc., predominantly in the south. But if you want a job outside of the south, or at a high-tech/R&D type place, that's a different story. I'd highly recommend grad school to almost anyone getting an engineering degree. If you wanna chat more about undergrad opportunities or grad school, shoot me a PM.

[bostondawg]

Whether the ratings are valid or not, it begins to hurt bc most the public won't dig deep into them.

^ This. There's a PR problem here.

Also to dawgman15 on the ratings: you generally shouldn't use rankings systems which show liberal arts schools with major universities. The student outcomes and expectations are totally different, so it isn't a fair comparison. Note how US news separates these into 'liberal arts colleges' and 'national universities.' Id' recommend using US News or QS (https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2018).

[ShotgunDawg]

Degrees are more about the network that is associated with that school than the education you received

[Fred Garvin]

Degrees are more about the network that is associated with that school than the education you received

There's a lot of truth here.

Those of you dismissing the rating are whistling past the graveyard. Lots of parents are using those scores to determine whether to send their kids to school. And that's causing State to miss out on a lot of high quality of students.

[Liverpooldawg]

I look at this like I do college sports programs and putting people in pro leagues. If you are talented enough and willing to work the NFL/NBA/MLB/etc will find you no matter where you played in college. You can get what you need at MSU to get established in the work force if you meet those first two criteria. It won't cost you nearly as much as it would in a lot of places too. My son is a Sr in engineering at MSU. I'm really proud of him. He has busted his butt and has a really good GPA. He has also taken advantage of the co-op program. He is currently on his third one. It's put him a year behind but it's been a truely fantastic experience for him. He could have gone elsewhere to a higher ranked school/s, but he would have come out of college saddled with a lot of debt. As it is he is going to have money in the bank, have a degree, and have good experience in his field. There is a lot to be said for that.

To the OP: PARTICIPATE IN THE CO-OP PROGRAM. Start working on that as soon as you can. My son did his first one sophomore year.

[Cooterpoot]

Degrees are more about the network that is associated with that school than the education you received

Exactly! And it's a huge part of why the ivy league schools and even the secondary ivy league-esque schools like a Colgate are so highly ranked. ND is another example. It's also part of why OM pulls so many out of state kids.

[SheltonChoked]

Well, that's why I keep harping that we need to be more selective academically. As it is now, virtually anybody can get accepted to Mississippi State ... and in many cases, they will graduate, which dilutes everybody's degree. Other public schools can do it ... UNC, UVa, Florida, ... the list goes on and on ... so why can't we? Some keep saying we're the "Peoples' University". BS. Not everybody is qualified nor should they be in college. College is supposed to be difficult, not just an extension of high school.

BTW ... you're a new alumnus, unless you're a female, in which case you're a new alumna. Alumni is the plural of alumnus. :)

I'm pretty sure ayers vs state of mississippi keeps all public universities in MS from rejecting applicants. I may be outdated, but that hurts us in several categories listed above.

Why we don't follow what Texas has done (make 2 university systems, with multiple campus's), I don't know. You would not have to change the names, just some administration.

[BeardoMSU]

I'll be honest, I have a lot of friends/coworkers who went to "pedigree" schools, and I think that degree has carried them through a lot more than that first door opening. From my time spent at one of these fancy schools, my opinion is that the top students at MSU are competitive with the top students up here. The average student, however, isn't even close. But I wouldn't hire a ton of these people that I'm around who went to fancy schools. But that degree carries farther than the first job. It will reap rewards forever.

I second this post.

[LilSebastian]

Do you have any idea why? Or are you just throwing out bad information again because that's what you heard?

And no, they don't all graduate unless their degree is in nonsense

It?s because we financed the construction of new dorms and other buildings. Note that state and federal allocations dropped, and we built like gangbusters? It?s because we financed those buildings by promising increased enrollment, borrowing against potential revenue increases. There?s a short term impact that we?re sacrificing academic rankings which could become a spiral, but the hope is that when this hardline conservative approach to edication subsides the university will be ready to go like gangbusters. The risk is that the state invests heavily into trades/vocations and State is unable to attract enough quality students.

[Cooterpoot]

Having spent a lot of time in the NE over the past 10 years (with ball), education is a bigger deal there. Waaaaaayyyyyy bigger deal. They don't worry about athletic facilities nearly as much either.

[Doggie_Style]

I think this discussion is very relevant to sports. The University requires donations from alumni to fund many sports related projects. As the University's academic standing declines, there will be many donors that choose to put their money somewhere else. Our engineering school should be a top priority for our administration. It is not. Severely under-funded with many under paid and horrible professors. Admission standards are pathetic as the school seeks to just fill seats with students that have very little chance of earning a degree.

[SheltonChoked]

Exactly - Remember who the WSJ's audience is and that will tell you all you need to know about these rankings. When you actually look at it, its a whole lot of BS.

I can tell you this - almost 25 years into the working world - the only people who ask me where I went to school (which is pretty evident if you come in my office) are people trying to find a commonality for small talk or co-workers wanting to determine if they can talk sports smack. That's it. When I was in the museum part of my career - people were far more interested in the places you had worked and the projects/exhibits you had been a part of. When you got around to talking about schools, most of the time you were trying determine other people you might know (the museum field in the southeast is fairly tight-nit and small - everyone knows everyone). In government work - it's only about sports smack. No one gives shit about where your degree is from because really, have you ever heard of a college who prides themselves on developing great bureaucrats?

The only real discussion I've ever had in a job interview about what college I attended was for the first job I got out of grad school. I was interviewing with the city manager of a small north metro ATL city - it went something like this - "You went to MSU, but you are from Marietta, Ga? Aren't they an A&M and you majored in History? How did you wind up there?"

The only time where I went to school comes up is when a co-worker wants to talk shit about sports. My first job asked my School and GPA, but I didn't CO-OP. Get work experience via that and even that question goes away.

[dawgs]

Having spent a lot of time in the NE over the past 10 years (with ball), education is a bigger deal there. Waaaaaayyyyyy bigger deal. They don't worry about athletic facilities nearly as much either.

West coast is similar, even at the pac 12 schools. People get fired up on game day, but by Monday, 90+% of the fans have moved on from the football game regardless of result.

[BeardoMSU]

Having spent a lot of time in the NE over the past 10 years (with ball), education is a bigger deal there. Waaaaaayyyyyy bigger deal. They don't worry about athletic facilities nearly as much either.

This is very true, lol.

There is also a big value placed on the 'private school' education, both k-12 and college (which is interesting, especially for a state like Massachusetts, which has the best public education system in the country).

[bostondawg]

This is very true, lol.

There is also a big value placed on the 'private school' education, both k-12 and college (which is interesting, especially for a state like Massachusetts, which has the best public education system in the country).

Seconding what Cooter/Beardo is saying here. The culture towards valuing education up here is insane--and the opportunities are commensurate. I have a friend whose 14 year-old daughter just got into Boston Latin (a public school, for those who don't know). She's getting sent to Hong Kong for a few weeks in her first year on an exchange program (as is like 30% of her class), just because they have the money and talent to do so. Education is the cornerstone of civilization, and it needs funding. Massachusetts gets that, and Mississippi doesn't. It's almost that simple.

[Liverpooldawg]

It?s because we financed the construction of new dorms and other buildings. Note that state and federal allocations dropped, and we built like gangbusters? It?s because we financed those buildings by promising increased enrollment, borrowing against potential revenue increases. There?s a short term impact that we?re sacrificing academic rankings which could become a spiral, but the hope is that when this hardline conservative approach to edication subsides the university will be ready to go like gangbusters. The risk is that the state invests heavily into trades/vocations and State is unable to attract enough quality students.

We had to have to dorms. There is barely enough room NOW to accommodate all the freshmen, and they HAVE to live on campus now.

[Liverpooldawg]

I'm pretty sure ayers vs state of mississippi keeps all public universities in MS from rejecting applicants. I may be outdated, but that hurts us in several categories listed above.

Why we don't follow what Texas has done (make 2 university systems, with multiple campus's), I don't know. You would not have to change the names, just some administration.
Yep, the Ayers settlement restricts a lot of what we can do when it comes to standards of admission. I really don't have a problem with that. First and foremost Mississippi public universities should be about educating Mississippians. With the state of secondary education in Mississippi restrictive admission standards would be counterproductive to that purpose. Get them in and try to educate them. Those that make it will value it more than those who never went. Some of them will stay in state. That will improve how the state values education over all..... eventually. It's a long term strategy. I happen to think it might just work.

[DawgFromOxford]

To me what it seems like is the main issue with the rankings is its bad for PR. Everyday people aren't going to dig any deeper into the rankings, but just take it at face value. This could also be a problem when it comes to company recruiters. If you are a recruiter, it makes sense for you to spend your time at higher ranked universities. Having a higher ranking university degree possibly opens up more doors when you enter the workforce. It appears once you get some experience under your belt, then, your degree just becomes a mark on a checklist.

TLDR; A higher university ranking is good for PR and potential job openings when first entering the workforce. Past that, it comes down to experience and capabilities.