Foul Play: Paid in Mississippi

[Gutter Cobreh]

Here is hoping this docuseries from Godfrey points more towards to the Rebelsharks than our way...

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ledger-enquirer.com/latest-news/article211727304.html

[BeardoMSU]

Here is hoping this docuseries from Godfrey points more towards to the Rebelsharks than our way...

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ledger-enquirer.com/latest-news/article211727304.html

Don't hold your breath...

[Commercecomet24]

Yeah Godfrey is a unm mouthpiece. He will place all the blame on us and the NCAA. I'm sure all the views of this "docuseries" wil all be the idiots in powder blue and red.

[Todd4State]

So Shitbird of them. They brag about cheating and get on probation so now they're going to try to drag is down with them since their short term sucks.

Yeah- everyone "cheats"- but only Ole Miss brags about it openly and does it excessively. And then they blame MSU because they get caught when it was Alabama and everyone else turning them in.

[Bully13]

17 this shit. Godfrey, another tsun journalist and James 17ing Carville?

[Gutter Cobreh]

Don't hold your breath...

No kidding! I'm sure it will have them coming out as the "victim" and we are painted as the ruthless program throwing stacks of cash around to secure a signature.

[Todd4State]

Yeah Godfrey is a unm mouthpiece. He will place all the blame on us and the NCAA. I'm sure all the views of this "docuseries" wil all be the idiots in powder blue and red.

Yep. It will be a fart in the wind.

[Commercecomet24]

17 this shit. Godfrey, another tsun journalist and James 17ing Carville?

Yeah I don't get carville angle either, what in the heck does carville have to do with football in our state?

[Todd4State]

Yeah I don't get carville angle either, what in the heck does carville have to do with football in our state?

It's an attempt to make Godfrey credible.

[Todd4State]

No kidding! I'm sure it will have them coming out as the "victim" and we are painted as the ruthless program throwing stacks of cash around to secure a signature.

All we have to do is get Rosebowl to do a documentary on Dan Mullen recruiting featuring John Hevesy.

[Commercecomet24]

It's an attempt to make Godfrey credible.

True but i thought that ship had sailed lol(well at least for everyone who doesn't wear powder blue glasses). I hate their freaking uniforms among the many other things I can't stand about that place.

[Commercecomet24]

All we have to do is get Rosebowl to do a documentary on Dan Mullen recruiting featuring John Hevesy.

Now that would be interesting lol

[Rick Danko]

All we have to do is get Rosebowl to do a documentary on Dan Mullen recruiting featuring John Hevesy.

Speaking it in my mind in Hadad?s tone from B&B Show.... ?Get outta here?-John Hevesy

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Lets be honest no one outside of MS is going to care about it.

[5049]

Why are you all running to the boards to publicize this? Tweeting it out like morons? Why give them the hits? No one outside Ole Miss and half of the MSU fanbase (the paranoid half) gives 2 half a shits about Godfrey or this show.

[MarketingBully]

Godfrey is an elitist asshole and also deserving of the term asshat. I won?t read anything that asshat writes.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Why are you all running to the boards to publicize this? Tweeting it out like morons? Why give them the hits? No one outside Ole Miss and half of the MSU fanbase (the paranoid half) gives 2 half a shits about Godfrey or this show.

This a discussion board and an MSU one at that. Isn't that the sole purpose of having a site like this? I've seen multiple threads about how Starkville growth impacts MSU and its brand. I've read where the gay pride parade response from the city impacts the image of the school. Yet, a potential hit piece from a biased "journalist" shouldn't be discussed or mentioned. I fail to see your logic...

[Jarius]

It's hard to believe Godfrey thinks anyone outside of the team he pulls for gives a shit about this...he's already dropped so many "bombshells" that no one gave a shit about. What's one more?

[MaroonBelle]

May be an unpopular opinion, but the stink of all this does cling to State, too. Also, LL is not some savior for testifying before the NCAA when he was forced to do so and his play on the field has in no way been worth the negative publicity that has come MSU's way because of its association with him. Do I think this will change anything with the NCAA? No. Do I think this is a bunch of petty "I'm not getting what I want so I'll watch the world burn" OM BS mentality. Absolutely. But I have also wished for about two years that we had just let OM have him.

[Dawgology]

Oh my god do you know what is going happen because of this??????

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

This is to help the Ole Miss faithful process their feelings. Through Godfrey...as usual. He's been burned pretty badly in the eyes of the national media, espn, etc. in my opinion so he's playing to his fan base.

At the end of the day....the NCAA ruling is handed down. It's over. Done with.

Guess he's just interested in adding to the toxicity now....**

[MadDawg]

May be an unpopular opinion, but the stink of all this does cling to State, too. Also, LL is not some savior for testifying before the NCAA when he was forced to do so and his play on the field has in no way been worth the negative publicity that has come MSU's way because of its association with him. Do I think this will change anything with the NCAA? No. Do I think this is a bunch of petty "I'm not getting what I want so I'll watch the world burn" OM BS mentality. Absolutely. But I have also wished for about two years that we had just let OM have him.

If you believe this, then this is great news to the folks in oxford. It means their propaganda has worked. It means asshats like Godfrey really do influence the easily swayed. It means their retaliation against a student that dared spill the beans has worked. Bravo.

[Bully13]

This is just a crock of shit designed to convince a stupid audience that tsun got railroaded and MSU is worse that tsun. a bunch of butt hurt fighting back like the girls they are. And trying to get some uptick in their whiney assed down trodden fan base.

and James Carville's a part of this? remember what he said about Paula Jones back in the day? What the 17 is HE doing here?

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/resources/1998/clinton.jones/characters.html

James Carville: The ragin' cajun Clinton loyalist set up a Web site to rebut the president's critics on Paula Jones and other Clinton scandals such as Whitewater. Carville's infamous comment, "If you drag a hundred dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you'll find," may have done the president more harm than good.

[JoseBrown]

I wonder if he will discuss the shitbirds bugging conversations with recruits and their families when discussing illegal inducements?

I wonder if he will discuss the fact the shitbirds hired professional women from TN and transported to Oxpatch to play roles of girlfriends for their prized recruits?

From that standpoint it may be interesting. But I doubt he touches those two subjects since the NCAA kinda overlooked those in their favor...

[Ari Gold]

**** that clown...

[MaroonBelle]

If you believe this, then this is great news to the folks in oxford. It means their propaganda has worked. It means asshats like Godfrey really do influence the easily swayed. It means their retaliation against a student that dared spill the beans has worked. Bravo.

No, it doesn't. Just means I am tired of talking, hearing, reading about it. Been tired of it. Tired of seeing the reputation of the school I love being dragged through the mud by that rebel scum because they got caught with their hand stuck in the cookie jar with the crumbs spilling down their chin and onto their ugly powder blues like the greedy children they are. Just because LL is on our team he is not an angel and I can't pretend he is. If they didn't have him to fling at us they wouldn't have anything at all. If he was producing like Simmons (who we took a lot of flack for and has been a model citizen since joining the team), I'd probably be disposed to feel more generous about him but I don't think he has. This school has been investigated by the NCAA (even though they found we didn't do anything wrong, he gave them a reason to come round, and I don't like it when they come round) directly because of him. If you are going to bring that much heat you better be worth it.

At the same time, I HATE those hypocrites for attacking him and his family like they have when they know they have people on their squad who have accepted money, and the fact that he had NO CHOICE but to testify. He was a kid when this happened. He might not have known better but they adults trying to buy his future did. He is ours for better or worse, but it sure has felt like worse to me.

[Bully13]

No, it doesn't. Just means I am tired of talking, hearing, reading about it. Been tired of it. Tired of seeing the reputation of the school I love being dragged through the mud by that rebel scum because they got caught with their hand stuck in the cookie jar with the crumbs spilling down their chin and onto their ugly powder blues like the greedy children they are. Just because LL is on our team he is not an angel and I can't pretend he is. If they didn't have him to fling at us they wouldn't have anything at all. If he was producing like Simmons (who we took a lot of flack for and has been a model citizen since joining the team), I'd probably be disposed to feel more generous about him but I don't think he has. This school has been investigated by the NCAA (even though they found we didn't do anything wrong, he gave them a reason to come round, and I don't like it when they come round) directly because of him. If you are going to bring that much heat you better be worth it.

At the same time, I HATE those hypocrites for attacking him and his family like they have when they know they have people on their squad who have accepted money, and the fact that he had NO CHOICE but to testify. He was a kid when this happened. He might not have known better but they adults trying to buy his future did. He is ours for better or worse, but it sure has felt like worse to me.

do us all a favor and just stop. please?

[MaroonBelle]

do us all a favor and just stop. please?

If I feel like it, I will. If you can't bring anything more substantive than that to the table I don't know why I should. I haven't said anything wrong or untrue and am as entitled to my opinion as any of you. Also, I didn't realize you spoke for everyone.

[Mutt the Hoople]

So Shitbird of them. They brag about cheating and get on probation so now they're going to try to drag is down with them since their short term sucks.

Yeah- everyone "cheats"- but only Ole Miss brags about it openly and does it excessively. And then they blame MSU because they get caught when it was Alabama and everyone else turning them in.

Ole Miss wants to do to the State of Mississippi. At the end of WW II, the SS (Gestapo) began committing atrocities on a massive scale. Why? Because they knew that the allies were closing in, and they knew retribution was coming. So, they wanted to drag the rest of the German people in with them, so they'd fight to the death instead of giving up.

Much like the Nazis, Ole Miss wants to drag us with them, committing NCAA atrocities and Recruiting war crimes on an industrial scale.

[Mutt the Hoople]

If I feel like it, I will. If you can't bring anything more substantive than that to the table I don't know why I should. I haven't said anything wrong or untrue and am as entitled to my opinion as any of you. Also, I didn't realize you spoke for everyone.

Don't be a Vichy Bulldog.

[Leroy Jenkins]

O/U on the number of "old south" panoramics of rusty old tractors sitting beside a dilapidated tin barn?

[MaroonBelle]

Don't be a Vichy Bulldog.

Don't be a brownshirt bulldog. I don't do lockstep. Not even for State.

[Schultzy]

If I feel like it, I will. If you can't bring anything more substantive than that to the table I don't know why I should. I haven't said anything wrong or untrue and am as entitled to my opinion as any of you. Also, I didn't realize you spoke for everyone.

Here’s something substantive:
1. He didn’t contact the NCAA, they contacted him.

2. He didn’t spill the beans on them in the 1st interview and we know this bc the NCAA had to grant him immunity to even get him to answer any questions the 2nd time around.

3. As a student athlete, telling the NCAA “no” to a 2nd interview with immunity when your scholly is on the line is probably a difficult ask for a freshman in college.

4. The reason the university was under investigation for academic fraud in the first place was because they got caught up in ULL’s academic fraud investigation.

5. Stop being a stupid bitch.

[Todd4State]

No, it doesn't. Just means I am tired of talking, hearing, reading about it. Been tired of it. Tired of seeing the reputation of the school I love being dragged through the mud by that rebel scum because they got caught with their hand stuck in the cookie jar with the crumbs spilling down their chin and onto their ugly powder blues like the greedy children they are. Just because LL is on our team he is not an angel and I can't pretend he is. If they didn't have him to fling at us they wouldn't have anything at all. If he was producing like Simmons (who we took a lot of flack for and has been a model citizen since joining the team), I'd probably be disposed to feel more generous about him but I don't think he has. This school has been investigated by the NCAA (even though they found we didn't do anything wrong, he gave them a reason to come round, and I don't like it when they come round) directly because of him. If you are going to bring that much heat you better be worth it.

At the same time, I HATE those hypocrites for attacking him and his family like they have when they know they have people on their squad who have accepted money, and the fact that he had NO CHOICE but to testify. He was a kid when this happened. He might not have known better but they adults trying to buy his future did. He is ours for better or worse, but it sure has felt like worse to me.

We're not getting drug through the mud on a national scale. No one believes Ole Miss anymore after they were found to be lying massively during the entire investigation.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Here’s something substantive:
1. He didn’t contact the NCAA, they contacted him.

2. He didn’t spill the beans on them in the 1st interview and we know this bc the NCAA had to grant him immunity to even get him to answer any questions the 2nd time around.

3. As a student athlete, telling the NCAA “no” to a 2nd interview with immunity when your scholly is on the line is probably a difficult ask for a freshman in college.

4. The reason the university was under investigation for academic fraud in the first place was because they got caught up in ULL’s academic fraud investigation.

5. Stop being a stupid -----.

With all due respect, you crossed the line with #5!

Regardless of the situation, I personally blame Lateral Move for Leo even being in the situation. Leo was absent at times last year and has yet to live up to his hype. I'm hopeful he's able to put this behind him and be a force on the field moving forward.

[Bully75]

Yeah Godfrey is a unm mouthpiece. He will place all the blame on us and the NCAA. I'm sure all the views of this "docuseries" wil all be the idiots in powder blue and red.

No doubt! Hit piece for sure.

[MaroonBelle]

Here’s something substantive:
1. He didn’t contact the NCAA, they contacted him.

2. He didn’t spill the beans on them in the 1st interview and we know this bc the NCAA had to grant him immunity to even get him to answer any questions the 2nd time around.

3. As a student athlete, telling the NCAA “no” to a 2nd interview with immunity when your scholly is on the line is probably a difficult ask for a freshman in college.

4. The reason the university was under investigation for academic fraud in the first place was because they got caught up in ULL’s academic fraud investigation.

5. Stop being a stupid bitch.

OK, Schmutzy, let me break this down for you. Your points 1 through 3 I already covered. In fact, we are in agreement on those. Let me quote it here for you since everyone loved it so much when I wrote it the first time.

"he had NO CHOICE but to testify (1,3). He was a kid when this happened (2). He might not have known better but the* adults trying to buy his future did." (*changed they to the, I hate typos, don't you) In other words, I don't blame him for having to testify for the NCAA at all. That doesn't negate the fact that him being on our team brings the NCAA to our doorstep when it is never a good thing to have them on your doorstep.

So instead of adding something substantive there, you actually just repackaged something I had already covered. That is what OM fanboy sports reporters do when they get "inside" information (see: lies) from the OM athletic dept. Regurgitate and repackage for the OM faithful. That's bad practice.

As to #4, my comments had nothing to do with OM academic fraud which has absolutely no connection to LL at all and is therefore irrelevant to any comments I made. It had to do with the allegations that came out during the NCAA investigation of OM pay-for-play (that picked up after the Tunsil draft) that an MSU booster paid LL, that were subsequently investigated by the NCAA and found to have no merit.

It blows my mind that some of you are perfectly fine with making up nasty, derogatory, petty nicknames for people who play their heart out for State like Luke (foambat) and Big T (Wanda) and Dak (check-down Charlie) but get angry, enough to tell me I should stop commenting or call me a stupid bitch, at the mere suggestion that the LL situation has been less than ideal for State.

Also, if you want a woman to shut-up (which seems to be the fall back position for a few on this board) the last thing you should do is call her a bitch. So, run along and work on your reading comprehension and your insults. Try to raise them above junior high level. Now THIS is my last comment on the subject and I won't reply to any further provocations or name calling.

[MadDawg]

It had to do with the allegations that came out during the NCAA investigation of OM pay-for-play (that picked up after the Tunsil draft) that an MSU booster paid LL, that were subsequently investigated by the NCAA and found to have no merit.

The only thing I will add, is just be aware that none of this would have ever "looked bad for MSU" if not for the propaganda machine in oxford that tried to tar and feather LL. And apparently, they did a good job.

[QuadrupleOption]

The only thing I will add, is just be aware that none of this would have ever "looked bad for MSU" if not for the propaganda machine in oxford that tried to tar and feather LL. And apparently, they did a good job.

With who? UM fans and gullible MSU fans?

[MadDawg]

With who? UM fans and gullible MSU fans?

Yes and yes. But also some uninterested third parties too.

[sleepy dawg]

Looks 100% Ole Miss made.

[BulldogBear]

Is there a bridge nearby? I'm sure I saw one.

[shannondawg]

They get multiple violations, loss of bowls ect ect ect, and somehow we are part of the focal point of the article?

[Mutt the Hoople]

Don't be a brownshirt bulldog. I don't do lockstep. Not even for State.

OOOOHHH, calling me a Nazi. VERRRY Original.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/189/715/161.jpg

[sleepy dawg]

OK, Schmutzy, let me break this down for you. Your points 1 through 3 I already covered. In fact, we are in agreement on those. Let me quote it here for you since everyone loved it so much when I wrote it the first time.

"he had NO CHOICE but to testify (1,3). He was a kid when this happened (2). He might not have known better but the* adults trying to buy his future did." (*changed they to the, I hate typos, don't you) In other words, I don't blame him for having to testify for the NCAA at all. That doesn't negate the fact that him being on our team brings the NCAA to our doorstep when it is never a good thing to have them on your doorstep.

So instead of adding something substantive there, you actually just repackaged something I had already covered. That is what OM fanboy sports reporters do when they get "inside" information (see: lies) from the OM athletic dept. Regurgitate and repackage for the OM faithful. That's bad practice.

As to #4, my comments had nothing to do with OM academic fraud which has absolutely no connection to LL at all and is therefore irrelevant to any comments I made. It had to do with the allegations that came out during the NCAA investigation of OM pay-for-play (that picked up after the Tunsil draft) that an MSU booster paid LL, that were subsequently investigated by the NCAA and found to have no merit.

It blows my mind that some of you are perfectly fine with making up nasty, derogatory, petty nicknames for people who play their heart out for State like Luke (foambat) and Big T (Wanda) and Dak (check-down Charlie) but get angry, enough to tell me I should stop commenting or call me a stupid bitch, at the mere suggestion that the LL situation has been less than ideal for State.

Also, if you want a woman to shut-up (which seems to be the fall back position for a few on this board) the last thing you should do is call her a bitch. So, run along and work on your reading comprehension and your insults. Try to raise them above junior high level. Now THIS is my last comment on the subject and I won't reply to any further provocations or name calling.

What if someone went as far as putting "Bitch" under your username for everyone to see every time you make a post...

[Ari Gold]

Lets be honest no one outside of MS is going to care about it.

I will go one further .. NO ONE outside of the cult fan base should give a shit about this.. I sure ****ing don?t.
They better hope the NCAA doesn?t get sick and tired of hearing them ****ing whine and whine. Their ass got off light for all the shit they did..

[Turfdawg67]

Also, if you want a woman to shut-up (which seems to be the fall back position for a few on this board) the last thing you should do is call her a bitch. So, run along and work on your reading comprehension and your insults. Try to raise them above junior high level. Now THIS is my last comment on the subject and I won't reply to any further provocations or name calling.

Sorry I guess by the name everyone knew you were a woman but me... I don't pay much attention to the names, but please continue with you thinking everyone is a chauvinist.

[sleepy dawg]

OK, Schmutzy, let me break this down for you. Your points 1 through 3 I already covered. In fact, we are in agreement on those. Let me quote it here for you since everyone loved it so much when I wrote it the first time.

"he had NO CHOICE but to testify (1,3). He was a kid when this happened (2). He might not have known better but the* adults trying to buy his future did." (*changed they to the, I hate typos, don't you) In other words, I don't blame him for having to testify for the NCAA at all. That doesn't negate the fact that him being on our team brings the NCAA to our doorstep when it is never a good thing to have them on your doorstep.

So instead of adding something substantive there, you actually just repackaged something I had already covered. That is what OM fanboy sports reporters do when they get "inside" information (see: lies) from the OM athletic dept. Regurgitate and repackage for the OM faithful. That's bad practice.

As to #4, my comments had nothing to do with OM academic fraud which has absolutely no connection to LL at all and is therefore irrelevant to any comments I made. It had to do with the allegations that came out during the NCAA investigation of OM pay-for-play (that picked up after the Tunsil draft) that an MSU booster paid LL, that were subsequently investigated by the NCAA and found to have no merit.

It blows my mind that some of you are perfectly fine with making up nasty, derogatory, petty nicknames for people who play their heart out for State like Luke (foambat) and Big T (Wanda) and Dak (check-down Charlie) but get angry, enough to tell me I should stop commenting or call me a stupid bitch, at the mere suggestion that the LL situation has been less than ideal for State.

Also, if you want a woman to shut-up (which seems to be the fall back position for a few on this board) the last thing you should do is call her a bitch. So, run along and work on your reading comprehension and your insults. Try to raise them above junior high level. Now THIS is my last comment on the subject and I won't reply to any further provocations or name calling.


Here's where I appear to differ from you. This is not Leo's fault. In fact, Leo is irrelevant. If it wasn't Leo it was something, anything else. They would've have latched on to something and turned it into the largest negative the could. Then try to spread that as hard and as wide as possible. Leo is inconsequential. This was an unwinnable situation for us... but ONLY to those who are in networking reach of Ole Miss fans. That's it. Any MSU fan who thinks MSU did something wrong here or that us being attacked by Ole Miss had anything to do with us is sad to me. They got you. Preventing their all out attack on us once they get in trouble is impossible. And they will have some impact, but only those who have listened to the repeat liars over and over who eventually just start believing them.

And again, the players didn't matter and even the accusations didn't matter against Ole Miss. They could've been any accusations and its just some other player, thing, or event against us. It's not any different than how they changed their narratives about themselves 100 times through the process. The story itself doesn't matter. It is only about making them look good and making us look bad anytime they are currently looking bad and we are looking good.

If you want to avoid it, then quit trying to compete b/c we could have never predicted what would happen with Leo and you won't be able to predict the next thing they'll attack us about; and if you do, then they'll just pick something different. They'll say it over and over until people like you buy in and start saying negative stuff about your school that only they are saying.

If someone wants to attack you bad enough, they can, and that's not something you can stop. The scenario pretty much doesn't matter.

[MagicDawg]

They get multiple violations, loss of bowls ect ect ect, and somehow we are part of the focal point of the article?

In a nutshell, they are obsessed with us. They couldn't stand losing to us, cheated to beat us, blamed us for the outcome of their bad decisions, and to this day are looking for ways to say, "Well, at least they are ______, too." Whatever they need to do, or whatever lie they need to tell themselves in order to fill in the blank, that's what they will do.

Their entire ridiculous rise, fall, and recent awkward splat in the mud of disgrace have ultimately been a story of how they want to see themselves when compared to Mississippi State University, their superiors. It has always been about how they feel about us. That is the only motivation they have left. They will tell stories, sing songs, write articles, and make movies to remind themselves of what? Of us.

They're obsessed with us, and that's the bottom line.

[Schultzy]

“Schmutzy”...I like it and will take it as a term of endearment. See, it’s not what you’re called, it’s how you download it that matters.

Your clear understanding that he was coerced into testifying should preclude you from being embarrassed at all, which is presumptuous to begin with and it’s Their guilt that has caused an imposition on all 52 student athletes, not the other way around and all the OM mouthpieces know it.

It’s OM’s use of student athletes to attempt to blameshift and deflect heat off of themselves that is th true embarrassment here and most people recognize that as I’m sure you do as well.

Your cardinal blunder is that you are allowing the OM mouthpieces to affect your opinion in precisely the way they intend and for all the wrong reasons. That’s what’s really embarrassing here. Understanding that the CFB world is not a place for Victorian Virgins should help you cope with your unwarranted embarrassment.

As one brilliant poster put it months ago...”nobody really cares that they were cheating, it’s just that they were going 85 in an 18 in a loaner from Cannon while talking on a burner phone and getting road dome from a booster’s wife.”

[sleepy dawg]

?Schmutzy?...I like it and will take it as a term of endearment. See, it?s not what you?re called, it?s how you download it that matters.

Your clear understanding that he was coerced into testifying should preclude you from being embarrassed at all, which is presumptuous to begin with and it?s Their guilt that has caused an imposition on all 52 student athletes, not the other way around and all the OM mouthpieces know it.

It?s OM?s use of student athletes to attempt to blameshift and deflect heat off of themselves that is th true embarrassment here and most people recognize that as I?m sure you do as well.

Your cardinal blunder is that you are allowing the OM mouthpieces to affect your opinion in precisely the way they intend and for all the wrong reasons. That?s what?s really embarrassing here. Understanding that the CFB world is not a place for Victorian Virgins should help you cope with your unwarranted embarrassment.

As one brilliant poster put it months ago...?nobody really cares that they were cheating, it?s just that they were going 85 in an 18 in a loaner from Cannon while talking on a burner phone and getting road dome from a booster?s wife.?

There have been some quality posts today. This may top them all. Great perspective.

[Political Hack]

I'm so ready for this asshole to get sued into oblivion for lying. There's a contingent ready to pull the trigger. We'll see if it actually happens and State people stand up for State people. That's always been the difference between State and Ole Miss. They'll stand up for each other even when they all know they're wrong. State people turn the other cheek.