It's BS that Nick Sandlin won the Ferris Trophy

[Todd4State]

Over Zach Shannon at Delta State.

Marshall isn't much better than what Delta State typically plays. I mean seriously.

If you hit 29 home runs in college- that's like one every other game pretty much- that's more impressive to me than dominating mid majors and a SEC team with a coach sexting in the dugout.

[Commercecomet24]

Also Shannon only struck out 27 times. Shannon had more hrs than strikeouts! Unheard of in this era for sluggers! Yep I would've voted for Shannon.

[Cooterpoot]

It’s not BS Sandlin won. It’s BS you effectively have to be D1 to win it.

[msstate7]

1.15 era
0.69 whip
13.10 k9, 1.61 bb9, 4.60 h9

Looks pretty impressive to me

[Ifyouonlyknew]

1.15 era
0.69 whip
13.10 k9, 1.61 bb9, 4.60 h9

Looks pretty impressive to me

So are these

https://twitter.com/deltastatebsb/status/998666137918459904?s=21

[preachermatt83]

Shannon not winning it is a joke. Period. Sandlin would have and should have won it most any other year with the season he's had but Shannon was unbelievable this year.

[Todd4State]

And it's not about being the best prospect either. Shannon was an UA All-American out of high school. If I'm drafting and I have to choose between Sandlin and Shannon- I'm picking Shannon.

[msstate7]

So are these

https://twitter.com/deltastatebsb/status/998666137918459904?s=21

I don't care either way. Just saying those numbers by sandlin are pretty sick too. Let em go to smith wills and face each other for the award

[Commercecomet24]

Sandlin has had a great year, Shannon has had a Ruthian year. What Shannon has done no matter the level is other worldly. One of the few d2 players to ever be up for the Golden Spikes award.

[preachermatt83]

Sandlin has had a great year, Shannon has had a Ruthian year. What Shannon has done no matter the level is other worldly. One of the few d2 players to ever be up for the Golden Spikes award.

Correct!! Ole CC has become one of the sites best posters. I always seem to watch threads to see what you are gonna say bud. Keep it up.

[Bully13]

It’s not BS Sandlin won. It’s BS you effectively have to be D1 to win it.

Yep. This was a perfect time to hand it off to a Delta State guy. Huge miss here. But that Rick Cleveland article was great. What a loaded year for the trophy.

[yjnkdawg]

It’s not BS Sandlin won. It’s BS you effectively have to be D1 to win it.


THIS

[yjnkdawg]

Sandlin has had a great year, Shannon has had a Ruthian year. What Shannon has done no matter the level is other worldly. One of the few d2 players to ever be up for the Golden Spikes award.


Great post. Rep given.

[shoeless joe]

Any of the nominees could have won it and it not been BS. all were deserving.

And if I'm being honest I'd hold being D2 against his stats. Not that he may not be THE best player in the state but those numbers don't look the same if he's in the SEC

[msstate7]

Any of the nominees could have won it and it not been BS. all were deserving.

And if I'm being honest I'd hold being D2 against his stats. Not that he may not be THE best player in the state but those numbers don't look the same if he's in the SEC

Or CUSA TBH

[Bully13]

Just out of curiosity, does anybody know which of the nominees have the highest MLB draft projections?

[yjnkdawg]

Any of the nominees could have won it and it not been BS. all were deserving.

And if I'm being honest I'd hold being D2 against his stats. Not that he may not be THE best player in the state but those numbers don't look the same if he's in the SEC


Ben McDonald said something similar to this about Zach Shannon. It doesn't really matter what division you are playing in college baseball, if you can put up these types of numbers then you are the real deal.

[Dawgbite]

There really should be a separate award for pitchers and position players. I know they are playing the same game but it's apples and oranges.

[shoeless joe]

Ben McDonald said something similar to this about Zach Shannon. It doesn't really matter what division you are playing in college baseball, if you can put up these types of numbers then you are the real deal.

That's just not true. What would rookers stats have looked like if he was at delta state last year. If you don't think quality of pitching seen plays a role then I can't help you. And I'm not saying he's not a great player, but his stats are inflated some based on the talent level they play against.

Exact same argument as whether an undefeated season for UCF and their schedule is the same as Alabama winning it all with their schedule.

[Commercecomet24]

This award is supposed to go to the best college player in the State of Mississippi regardless of division. If Zack Shannon didn't win it this year they might as well just make it the USM, MSU, TSUN trophy.

[Cooterpoot]

They might as well exclude the lower level schools from the award and simply make it a big three award. It's incredible how MS can have so many good baseball programs in a state that can't produce enough talent in other sports.

[msstate7]

Would you guys have wanted Shannon to win over rooker last season? Shannon's numbers are better. My guess is you guys wouldn't bc rooker did it in the sec... essentially you weight rooker's stats bc of level of competition; this is exactly what the voters did

[msstate7]

They might as well exclude the lower level schools from the award and simply make it a big three award. It's incredible how MS can have so many good baseball programs in a state that can't produce enough talent in other sports.

You realize Mangum was the only candidate from Mississippi, right?

[shoeless joe]

This award is supposed to go to the best college player in the State of Mississippi regardless of division. If Zack Shannon didn't win it this year they might as well just make it the USM, MSU, TSUN trophy.

I agree

I'm not saying he's not the best player. But I am saying that his stats are inflated based on competition. i would have had zero problem with him winning the award, or any of the candidates for that matter.

[Commercecomet24]

I agree

I'm not saying he's not the best player. But I am saying that his stats are inflated based on competition. i would have had zero problem with him winning the award, or any of the candidates for that matter.

I'm with ya on that.

[Todd4State]

Would you guys have wanted Shannon to win over rooker last season? Shannon's numbers are better. My guess is you guys wouldn't bc rooker did it in the sec... essentially you weight rooker's stats bc of level of competition; this is exactly what the voters did

It wasn't Shannon versus Rooker. Has it been SEC triple crown would win over a Ruthenian year at Delta State.

But Rooker was last year and Shannon was this year. Given the candidates that Shannon was up against THIS YEAR he was the best.

[Johnson85]

They might as well exclude the lower level schools from the award and simply make it a big three award. It's incredible how MS can have so many good baseball programs in a state that can't produce enough talent in other sports.

Well, it's going to be rare that the best college player in the state is from Delta State. Even when it's true, it's going to be hard to know because you're comparing apples to oranges.

To me, it seems pretty easy most of the time: SEC stats > CUSA stats > DII stats

If you're at USM, you have to have better stats than your competition at MSU or UM. If you're at DSU, you have to have much better stats than somebody at USM and even more so than somebody at MSU/UM.

In this case, I think the Delta State guy could have won it, but Sandlin had pretty ridiculous stats too, so it seems pretty reasonable that he won it.

I'm not as sure comparing the DSU guy to the UM and USM hitters. Is .425 with his homers indicative of him being a better college player than UM's guy hitting >.390 in the SEC (with 17 doubles) or USM's guy hitting .392 in CUSA and having 18 doubles and 13 home runs? I just don't know enough about the difference in competition to compare.

[Todd4State]

I agree

I'm not saying he's not the best player. But I am saying that his stats are inflated based on competition. i would have had zero problem with him winning the award, or any of the candidates for that matter.

He's legit though. He still would have hit 15-20 home runs in division I even in the SEC. Look at who USM plays. They play a few SEC teams and then outside of that the best they play in a weekend series is maybe someone like La Tech. That's why their RPI is in the 40's and almost 50.

So Sandlin doesn't put up the numbers he did against SEC competition either. And if you took Small or Pilkington they probably dominate that league.

[Bully13]

Would you guys have wanted Shannon to win over rooker last season? Shannon's numbers are better. My guess is you guys wouldn't bc rooker did it in the sec... essentially you weight rooker's stats bc of level of competition; this is exactly what the voters did

Rooker was the SEC'S Triple Crown Winner. Not done since Palmiero. If an Ole Miss or USM guy had done the same, I'd voted for them too.

[Todd4State]

Well, it's going to be rare that the best college player in the state is from Delta State. Even when it's true, it's going to be hard to know because you're comparing apples to oranges.

To me, it seems pretty easy most of the time: SEC stats > CUSA stats > DII stats

If you're at USM, you have to have better stats than your competition at MSU or UM. If you're at DSU, you have to have much better stats than somebody at USM and even more so than somebody at MSU/UM.

In this case, I think the Delta State guy could have won it, but Sandlin had pretty ridiculous stats too, so it seems pretty reasonable that he won it.

I'm not as sure comparing the DSU guy to the UM and USM hitters. Is .425 with his homers indicative of him being a better college player than UM's guy hitting >.390 in the SEC (with 17 doubles) or USM's guy hitting .392 in CUSA and having 18 doubles and 13 home runs? I just don't know enough about the difference in competition to compare.

Shannon is the only Golden Spikes Award Candidate from Mississippi this year.

Here's the thing too- it's more common to dominate as a pitcher in college baseball than it is as a hitter in college baseball. How many Maholm, Startton, Hudson's have we had for every Palmeiro and Rooker?

[shoeless joe]

He's legit though. He still would have hit 15-20 home runs in division I even in the SEC. Look at who USM plays. They play a few SEC teams and then outside of that the best they play in a weekend series is maybe someone like La Tech. That's why their RPI is in the 40's and almost 50.

So Sandlin doesn't put up the numbers he did against SEC competition either. And if you took Small or Pilkington they probably dominate that league.

I don't disagree. You actually made my point...his stats are inflated based on competition. He still may be the best player in the state. And I agree about the stats of sandlin. All I'm saying is this was a very strong group of finalists and I don't think it would be BS for any one of them to have won.

[msstate7]

Sandlin led cusa is era, whip, strikeouts, and BAA.

Interesting is that shannon's ops is 1.462 and Luke Reynolds' is 1.307. I think Reynolds' ops at div 1 level is more impressive

[drunkernhelldawg]

1.15 era
0.69 whip
13.10 k9, 1.61 bb9, 4.60 h9

Looks pretty impressive to me

I'm with you. Sandlin has unbelievable numbers and led his team to a conference title. The walks number is otherworldly.

[Cooterpoot]

You realize Mangum was the only candidate from Mississippi, right?

You realize the teams are all good and the majority of the players on them (as a whole) are from MS, right?

[Cooterpoot]

The bottom line on this deal is that competition can't even be considered if you're going to allow smaller school players to be eligible. Otherwise, they can't win it.
If you want to make it about the competition, not their stats, then you have to exclude the smaller schools. It's unfortunate. Maybe go with D1, D2, and D3/NAIA awards??? I don't know....but don't screw over the players by comparing competition and still saying it's an award for players from any size school.

[msstate7]

You realize the teams are all good and the majority of the players on them are from MS, right?

Not going through all the schools, but here's our breakdown: 10 players from miss and 23 from out of state.

http://hailstate.com/roster.aspx?roster=178&path=baseball

[Cooterpoot]

Not going through all the schools, but here's our breakdown: 10 players from miss and 23 from out of state.

http://hailstate.com/roster.aspx?roster=178&path=baseball

I'm including kids that played MS juco ball, so yeah, you've got me on it if you don't include those. Kinda goes along with how this award is viewed. Who you going to include...................

[Todd4State]

Sandlin led cusa is era, whip, strikeouts, and BAA.

Interesting is that shannon's ops is 1.462 and Luke Reynolds' is 1.307. I think Reynolds' ops at div 1 level is more impressive

Older player who played in a higher league going up against weaker competition. I believe he only had two or three hits against Ole Miss and Alabama combined.

[Todd4State]

The bottom line on this deal is that competition can't even be considered if you're going to allow smaller school players to be eligible. Otherwise, they can't win it.
If you want to make it about the competition, not their stats, then you have to exclude the smaller schools. It's unfortunate. Maybe go with D1, D2, and D3/NAIA awards??? I don't know....but don't screw over the players by comparing competition and still saying it's an award for players from any size school.

I'm with you 100%.

[msstate7]

Older player who played in a higher league going up against weaker competition. I believe he only had two or three hits against Ole Miss and Alabama combined.

So you hold weak competition against Luke Reynolds but not Shannon? Luke hit .370 in sec in 2015, and you left off Luke's numbers vs the other sec team he faced this season.

How do I always find myself defending "Lukes" haha

[confucius say]

You realize Mangum was the only candidate from Mississippi, right?

Reynolds is from MS. Down 21 from you in Forest.

[msstate7]

Reynolds is from MS. Down 21 from you in Forest.

Stay out of this! Haha... thought it was only magnum, olenek, Shannon, and winner

[Todd4State]

So you hold weak competition against Luke Reynolds but not Shannon? Luke hit .370 in sec in 2015, and you left off Luke's numbers vs the other sec team he faced this season.

How do I always find myself defending "Lukes" haha

I said Shannon would likely hit 15-20 home runs in the SEC. I'm absolutely taking the fact that he plays D-2 baseball into account. He is also the same age as a normal college junior that hasn't sat out for two years. Do you not think that players improve as they get older and mature? What Reynolds is doing would be like someone playing in MLB for a year and then playing in AAA for a year while still in their prime.

You don't understand how difficult it is to hit home runs and that's why you are wrong and trying to grasp at straws.

[msstate7]

I said Shannon would likely hit 15-20 home runs in the SEC. I'm absolutely taking the fact that he plays D-2 baseball into account. He is also the same age as a normal college junior that hasn't sat out for two years. Do you not think that players improve as they get older and mature? What Reynolds is doing would be like someone playing in MLB for a year and then playing in AAA for a year while still in their prime.

You don't understand how difficult it is to hit home runs and that's why you are wrong and trying to grasp at straws.

4 players in the sec have hit 15 or more HRs this season. I think you're the one grasping straws


JUCO: Played for Coach Rob Founier at Wabash Valley Community College in Mount Carmel Ill...hit. 392 (73-for-196) and slugged .613 through 54 games in 2016?recorded 20 doubles, seven home runs, 30 RBIs and scored 44 runs.

7 HRs in juco to 19 HRs at delta state

[msstate7]

https://m.herosports.com/news/d2-baseball-2017-mlb-draft-prospects-garett-cave-tampa

Site says normally there are 30-40 players taken in mlb draft from div 2

There were 75 players taken from the sec last season.

[confucius say]

Lets not do the Reynolds debate again.

[Todd4State]

4 players in the sec have hit 15 or more HRs this season. I think you're the one grasping straws


JUCO: Played for Coach Rob Founier at Wabash Valley Community College in Mount Carmel Ill...hit. 392 (73-for-196) and slugged .613 through 54 games in 2016?recorded 20 doubles, seven home runs, 30 RBIs and scored 44 runs.

7 HRs in juco to 19 HRs at delta state

29 home runs. Why don't you go through every player that has played JUCO baseball that has gone to Delta State and get back to me when you find another one that has hit 29 home runs the year after JUCO?

[Johnson85]

Shannon is the only Golden Spikes Award Candidate from Mississippi this year.

Here's the thing too- it's more common to dominate as a pitcher in college baseball than it is as a hitter in college baseball. How many Maholm, Startton, Hudson's have we had for every Palmeiro and Rooker?

That's a good point, but were those guys sporting an ERA approaching 1? I thought our aces have been more like low 2 eras. Obviously don't pay attention that much.

[Todd4State]

https://m.herosports.com/news/d2-baseball-2017-mlb-draft-prospects-garett-cave-tampa

Site says normally there are 30-40 players taken in mlb draft from div 2

There were 75 players taken from the sec last season.

Shannon would probably be in the SEC or another power 5 conference if it wasn't for his grades. Shannon committed to Ohio State after being an Under Armour All-American in high school. Delta State is very lucky that his circumstances led them to him. He's a SEC caliber player playing in division 2.

[Johnson85]

The bottom line on this deal is that competition can't even be considered if you're going to allow smaller school players to be eligible. Otherwise, they can't win it.
If you want to make it about the competition, not their stats, then you have to exclude the smaller schools. It's unfortunate. Maybe go with D1, D2, and D3/NAIA awards??? I don't know....but don't screw over the players by comparing competition and still saying it's an award for players from any size school.

If you don't consider competition, I'm not sure you can claim it's for the most outstanding collegiate baseball player in Mississippi.

It's impossible to get it "right", but we either make an imperfect comparison taking into account quality of competition, in which case it may be slanted towards the big 3, or we don't take quality of competition into account, in which case it will definitely be slanted against the big 3 as I would assume you see a lot more dominance at the DII and DIII level than the DI level.

[Todd4State]

That's a good point, but were those guys sporting an ERA approaching 1? I thought our aces have been more like low 2 eras. Obviously don't pay attention that much.

Those guys were in the 2.30-2.55's.

[msstate7]

29 home runs. Why don't you go through every player that has played JUCO baseball that has gone to Delta State and get back to me when you find another one that has hit 29 home runs the year after JUCO?

19 HR in 2017. I'm guessing he wasn't drafted last season, which is pretty telling also

[Todd4State]

19 HR in 2017. I'm guessing he wasn't drafted last season, which is pretty telling also

He will after this year. And someone will get a steal.

Doesn't really matter what he did in JUCO since in case you haven't noticed while grasping at straws that the award is for what the player did this year.