Softball Team and Coach Vann Stuedemann

[ZedFedder]

Is it time for her to go? I appreciate her energy and support of all things MSU, but after a decent start to the season, they have sputtered again. Just got swept by USCe. Think she is a pretty good coach, but we haven't gotten much better in the last few years. I just don't see us jumping up to compete with Florida, Alabama, Auburn, and others while she is here.

Thoughts?

[mparkerfd20]

Past time for her to go. She sux

[Big4Dawg]

6-15 in SEC. Ouch. Softball is probably the SEC's best support but thats not good.

[notsofarawaydawg]

Bye Bye Vanntastic .. You're in over your head.

[Saltydog]

talent in women's fast pitch. It's difficult to recruit.

[Really Clark?]

We were ranked 25 in the country before this weekend and 19 in RPI. USCe is ranked 13th. Yeah you would hope to win one but we also have had a brutal SEC schedule in softball. We have played or will play the top 6 teams in conference (all in the Top 16 in the country) but will not plays teams 7-10 in the SEC standings this year. Mizzo and UNM are the only teams in the bottom half of the league we played this year.

And going by SEC record alone skews perception. LSU was 12-12 last year and still was a national seed

Not saying that Vann has probably hit a wall here and a change might be in order. Never was her biggest fan but she has made changes and toned down her antics as well to try and make a better run.

[drummerdawg]

If I remember right this freshmen class is pretty good. I don't mind giving her another year. She's been pretty consistent in going to regionals which wasn't the norm before her.

[Quaoarsking]

Hey look this thread again. We go through it every year.

To reiterate, no, Stuedemann is an excellent coach with a much harder job that our football coaches have. High school softball is terrible enough in Mississippi without taking into account they spend half the year playing glorified church league. The fact that Stuedemann has gotten us into the NCAA Tournament every year except 1 (and will do so again this year) is very impressive.

Her recruiting (mostly out of state) has gotten better with the new park, but we're never going to be an elite program no matter who we hire. Her predecessor was such a good coach that he coached the US National Team and he couldn't consistently win here either.

If we were to get rid of Vann (we won't), we'd be much worse under the next coach. We were very lucky to get her -- the only reason we did was because Alabama screwed her over and we just happened to have a nearby opening at the right time.

[Cooterpoot]

Van was 17ing dancing in the dugout yesterday after falling behind 6 runs. She isn?t going to make us better. It?s past time to change. We?re next to last in the SEC. The SEC is down a little this year.
And Bama ran her ass off. They didn?t screw her. They got tired of her act. Her camps are some of the worst I?ve been to.
Look what change has done for two teams that were worse than us. Must be nice to draw a check by being one of the worst programs in the conference and simply live on the RPI bump of the SEC.

[MaroonFlounder]

Who really cares about softball?

Our baseball guys made fundamental mistakes today. That is what I’m scratching my head about.

[Quaoarsking]

Van was 17ing dancing in the dugout yesterday after falling behind 6 runs. She isn?t going to make us better. It?s past time to change. We?re next to last in the SEC. The SEC is down a little this year.
And Bama ran her ass off. They didn?t screw her. They got tired of her act. Her camps are some of the worst I?ve been to.
Look what change has done for two teams that were worse than us. Must be nice to draw a check by being one of the worst programs in the conference and simply live on the RPI bump of the SEC.

Wrong. Alabama's coach took another job, they promoted Vann to head coach, then the old coach said never mind, so Alabama told Vann to never mind and go back to being pitching coach, and she said "uh wtf no" and took out opening.

[5049]

talent in women's fast pitch. It's difficult to recruit.

This is true of every sport in Mississippi

[Cooterpoot]

Wrong. Alabama's coach took another job, they promoted Vann to head coach, then the old coach said never mind, so Alabama told Vann to never mind and go back to being pitching coach, and she said "uh wtf no" and took out opening.

And Murphy publicly stated he couldn?t turn over his program to Vann. He then told her to go. He wasn?t taking her to LSU. She had split the team at Bama and caused a lot of drama. Considering I?ve got inside info there, I can tell you, she was considered a cancer.

[Cooterpoot]

By the way, OK only has one starter from OK. It’s not about the kids in your state.

[preachermatt83]

We falter every year In the sec. I could tell you a story about vanns recruiting of one particular player that would make you want her gone now. We missed on the best player to come out of his state in years bc of her. I want her gone and I seriously think Trae Embry should be considered for the job... he won't be but he should be. Not only can he coach but I know him well and he could sell ice to an Eskimo. Also the three hosses that quit OM would come running to play for him.

[preachermatt83]

Hey look this thread again. We go through it every year.

To reiterate, no, Stuedemann is an excellent coach with a much harder job that our football coaches have. High school softball is terrible enough in Mississippi without taking into account they spend half the year playing glorified church league. The fact that Stuedemann has gotten us into the NCAA Tournament every year except 1 (and will do so again this year) is very impressive.

Her recruiting (mostly out of state) has gotten better with the new park, but we're never going to be an elite program no matter who we hire. Her predecessor was such a good coach that he coached the US National Team and he couldn't consistently win here either.

If we were to get rid of Vann (we won't), we'd be much worse under the next coach. We were very lucky to get her -- the only reason we did was because Alabama screwed her over and we just happened to have a nearby opening at the right time.

Showcase travel ball players in mississippi are some of the best out there. All vann wants to do is buddy up to bham thunderbolts

[preachermatt83]

And Murphy publicly stated he couldn?t turn over his program to Vann. He then told her to go. He wasn?t taking her to LSU. She had split the team at Bama and caused a lot of drama. Considering I?ve got inside info there, I can tell you, she was considered a cancer.
This!

[ScottH]

For you softball guys (a sport I know zero about)....

Is Bratton a possible successor? Or is it a clean house situation?

And who is Trae Embry?

[Cooterpoot]

I don’t know. Bratton is the recruiter. He’s a hard worker. But, he can rub some the wrong way (comes across as arrogant). We need a coach with recruiting connections because that’s what softball basically is. Kids are dying to play in the SEC. it’s the 2nd best conference in America. The facilities in the SEC are the best and it’s not close. It’s not that hard a sell. We aren’t pulling Cali and TX kids. That’s a problem.

[Really Clark?]

Showcase travel ball players in mississippi are some of the best out there. All vann wants to do is buddy up to bham thunderbolts

Not saying we shouldn?t be diverse with recruiting (think she has hit the Bolts too hard) and that we don?t have players in Mississippi (showcase teams are getting better) but the Thunderbolts does have some of the best players in the southeast. The number of SEC committed players they have is a high percentage. Including players from Mississippi now and recent years. Dykes didn?t play for MS teams when Bama recruited her and then played for TBolts. Now a lot of those girls on TBolts premier have already committed prior to joining AND finding those players PRIOR is what I would like to see a better job of. She has gotten stuck on a few organizations before like with Lady Lightening so it?s not just one organization. But that is probably the issue with the overall recruiting depth and not working as hard on the trail as possible. There should be some better JUCO evaluations across our state, LA and AL as well.

All that being said, the new recruiting rules is about to change a lot of how softball recruits and I for one think it is a great change for both schools and especially the athletes

[preachermatt83]

I don’t know. Bratton is the recruiter. He’s a hard worker. But, he can rub some the wrong way (comes across as arrogant). We need a coach with recruiting connections because that’s what softball basically is. Kids are dying to play in the SEC. it’s the 2nd best conference in America. The facilities in the SEC are the best and it’s not close. It’s not that hard a sell. We aren’t pulling Cali and TX kids. That’s a problem.

I am maroon and white through and through.. my daughter is a good ball player...she is young (10) but could develop into a college player. D1? I doubt it but maybe if her drive for it stays the same as it is now.. having said that, even as much as I love MSU... I don't think I would ever support my daughter playing for Bratton.

[preachermatt83]

For you softball guys (a sport I know zero about)....

Is Bratton a possible successor? Or is it a clean house situation?

And who is Trae Embry?


http://www.neshobademocrat.com/Content/EDITORIAL/Editorial/Article/Embry-finalist-for-national-Coach-of-the-Year-/7/302/42477

[Really Clark?]

I don’t know. Bratton is the recruiter. He’s a hard worker. But, he can rub some the wrong way (comes across as arrogant). We need a coach with recruiting connections because that’s what softball basically is. Kids are dying to play in the SEC. it’s the 2nd best conference in America. The facilities in the SEC are the best and it’s not close. It’s not that hard a sell. We aren’t pulling Cali and TX kids. That’s a problem.

We have the same number of players from TX and CA as Bama and Tenn. 5. The numbers in those states are better but you have to understand that gap has been closing some over the last decade. After you get down past a certain number of players in those states, you have similar talent elsewhere closer to home or better raw ability that needs refinement. Athletic wise we can match those states with our best, but are still behind skill set wise.

Pitching is not included in this discussion.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

We can do lots better #SECMoney

[Todd4State]

My question because I don't keep up with it:

Is how did Ole Miss get so good at softball? What are or were they doing that we aren't?

[Really Clark?]

My question because I don't keep up with it:

Is how did Ole Miss get so good at softball? What are or were they doing that we aren't?

He came in with a lot of ins with various travel organizations and he made a good effort in state. But he has also had a significant amount of transfers, including in state players and starters. To me last year he mainly rode a hot pitcher he got from MGCC and had some timely hitting at the right time. But she gave out eventually and has not been as effective this year. They are last in the SEC this year. Not sure his early turn around will bounce back.

[preachermatt83]

He came in with a lot of ins with various travel organizations and he made a good effort in state. But he has also had a significant amount of transfers, including in state players and starters. To me last year he mainly rode a hot pitcher he got from MGCC and had some timely hitting at the right time. But she gave out eventually and has not been as effective this year. They are last in the SEC this year. Not sure his early turn around will bounce back.

He's a clown. He could have won a natty this yr but He lost his best 3 players because he doesn't have a clue.

[Really Clark?]

He's a clown. He could have won a natty this yr but He lost his best 3 players because he doesn't have a clue.

Talking with the girls and parents who left, clown would be the nicest thing they would call him in private.

[Todd4State]

He came in with a lot of ins with various travel organizations and he made a good effort in state. But he has also had a significant amount of transfers, including in state players and starters. To me last year he mainly rode a hot pitcher he got from MGCC and had some timely hitting at the right time. But she gave out eventually and has not been as effective this year. They are last in the SEC this year. Not sure his early turn around will bounce back.

Thanks! Like I said I don't keep up with it at all but I knew that they had success last year and I figured we could do some of the things that they did. But if they are last in the SEC it sounds like it wasn't sustainable.

[preachermatt83]

Talking with the girls and parents who left, clown would be the nicest thing they would call him in private.

You sir are correct

[Cooterpoot]

Showcase travel ball players in mississippi are some of the best out there. All vann wants to do is buddy up to bham thunderbolts

No they?re not. There?s nothing in MS. You get maybe three SEC kids a year in MS. And that’s stretching it. Go play in the PGF in Cali and you’ll understand. Go watch kids workout at the BatBusters facility or with Corona or the A’s. It’s a different level. They aren’t simply raw athletes.

[Cooterpoot]

We have the same number of players from TX and CA as Bama and Tenn. 5. The numbers in those states are better but you have to understand that gap has been closing some over the last decade. After you get down past a certain number of players in those states, you have similar talent elsewhere closer to home or better raw ability that needs refinement. Athletic wise we can match those states with our best, but are still behind skill set wise.

Pitching is not included in this discussion.

Yeah, there?s no comparison instruction-wise to Cali. And the pitching here is abysmal for the most part. Athletes we?ve got. Players, not so much. Outside of the MS schools, there?s not many in the SEC from MS.
I really don?t think many in MS realize what it takes to play at the highest level. And fewer can afford it. I’ll be very interested to see how the new rules change the showcase landscape.

[Cooterpoot]

He's a clown. He could have won a natty this yr but He lost his best 3 players because he doesn't have a clue.

He’s a prick. And he will tell you he doesn’t like MS or MS players. I will give Vann some credit, her players don’t hate her (well, for the most part). I can’t say that about Smith.

[notsofarawaydawg]

Vanntastic missed out on the Sanders girl from New Hope. She did great at Louisiana Lafayette and left because they fired the coaches. She's at Oregon now and playing well. Her talent evaluation sucks.

[Political Hack]

Hey look this thread again. We go through it every year.

To reiterate, no, Stuedemann is an excellent coach with a much harder job that our football coaches have. High school softball is terrible enough in Mississippi without taking into account they spend half the year playing glorified church league. The fact that Stuedemann has gotten us into the NCAA Tournament every year except 1 (and will do so again this year) is very impressive.

Her recruiting (mostly out of state) has gotten better with the new park, but we're never going to be an elite program no matter who we hire. Her predecessor was such a good coach that he coached the US National Team and he couldn't consistently win here either.

If we were to get rid of Vann (we won't), we'd be much worse under the next coach. We were very lucky to get her -- the only reason we did was because Alabama screwed her over and we just happened to have a nearby opening at the right time.

Yeah, we're not playing with a full deck here. Have to find a way to even up the talent gaps, but that's hard to do when you can't build depth in your own state.

[Really Clark?]

Vanntastic missed out on the Sanders girl from New Hope. She did great at Louisiana Lafayette and left because they fired the coaches. She's at Oregon now and playing well. Her talent evaluation sucks.

She did miss but at the time you understand why Us, Bama, UNM, etc were ALL questioning whether she would pan out at the SEC level. ULL didn’t even intend to play her much as a freshman. It was an injury that forced her into the lineup early. And for every one of those athletes with the same pedigree as her that surprise and do well, there are many many more that don’t make it and are transferring after 1-2 years.

[Bothrops]

I just don't see the same level of competitiveness from the softball team that I see in other MSU sports. It looks like they're just out there to have fun, win or lose. I've never understood the dancing around routine, especially when you're way behind. This team should be more serious about winning games.

On a side note, I didn't see much urgency from the baseball team in yesterday's game either.

[notsofarawaydawg]

She did miss but at the time you understand why Us, Bama, UNM, etc were ALL questioning whether she would pan out at the SEC level. ULL didn’t even intend to play her much as a freshman. It was an injury that forced her into the lineup early. And for every one of those athletes with the same pedigree as her that surprise and do well, there are many many more that don’t make it and are transferring after 1-2 years.

It's called taking a chance and when you take chances on these out of state players and they don't pan out it's the same thing. State's major loss and a total screw up by Vantastic. Regional play and usually one and done just isn't going to make it these days.

[Really Clark?]

It's called taking a chance and when you take chances on these out of state players and they don't pan out it's the same thing. State's major loss and a total screw up by Vantastic. Regional play and usually one and done just isn't going to make it these days.

You are taking a chance on every player. That’s a poor argument as it is very volatile who will pan out. Especially in softball. But with her specifically she was considered an defensive player first. Extremely athletic with a great arm. It wasn’t just Vann who was concerned she wouldn’t hit SEC pitching. Murphy said the same thing and I don’t know what UNM was doing. This was a player USM should have been all over but they had the AZ couple at them time coaching, they only wanted to recruit out west.

She was the lowest in the line-up at ULL as a freshman and Lotief was NOT planning on playing her either. He saw her as developmental player as well. When you saw her play when she was 16-17 you loved her athleticism, if she ever loved pitching and worked the craft she could have been good there as well, but her hitting mechanics was raw and had concerning issues. In that sense going to ULL and retraining with a different style and philosophy, might have been a great choice by her. She will even tell at that time she just picked up a bat and swung. Good pitching (the 3 keys spin, spot, speed) would get her. And ULL was a much better program at the time as well than State.

And we signed 2 players from MS that year, not just out of state. Blaker and Carter

[Cooterpoot]

I'll just be honest. I'd hire Lotief tomorrow if we could get him. I know he's hell on the girls and has health issues, but the guy is a damn good coach. We'd learn to hit the ball. Something we've struggled with for as long as I can remember.
Vann is a pitching coach. But she's failed to bring in a stud pitcher. We've got decent pitching but a great pitching coach should be able to pull a stud pitcher. She hasn't.
Defensively, we're simply awful this year. We've done some really crazy things late in games coaching-wise as well.
Take Mia off this team and we're a last place team and probably struggle to make a regional. And if you look at that highly ranked recruiting class from last year, she's just about it as far as a major contributor.

[Really Clark?]

I'll just be honest. I'd hire Lotief tomorrow if we could get him. I know he's hell on the girls and has health issues, but the guy is a damn good coach. We'd learn to hit the ball. Something we've struggled with for as long as I can remember.
Vann is a pitching coach. But she's failed to bring in a stud pitcher. We've got decent pitching but a great pitching coach should be able to pull a stud pitcher. She hasn't.
Defensively, we're simply awful this year. We've done some really crazy things late in games coaching-wise as well.
Take Mia off this team and we're a last place team and probably struggle to make a regional. And if you look at that highly ranked recruiting class from last year, she's just about it as far as a major contributor.

Ha. Well if people didn’t like how Cohen used forceful verbiage at times, their ears will bleed with Lotief speaking to women like he does. But his players love him and they know a different side of him. Offensively he does things differently but he has a track record of very good success.

Throw big big money at Glenn Moore to see if he wants a new challenge in a state he is from. I’m talking what ever it takes kind of money. Very strong Christian man with a lot of respect in this state.

Jenn Rocha would be another of my first calls (if she vetts out well). Her coaching and playing tree is second to none. From Cali but had to go JUCO route to get to Oklahoma. Played and GA under Gasso, been with Walton since his days at Wichita State and when he was at OK as an assistant. Developed multiple outstanding pitchers. Biggest question would be how does she establish herself from Walton or is she just a great Pitching/Assitant coach. How good of a closer is she in recruiting, etc?