Cohen

[vv83]

We all praised Cohen for the Cann and JM hire and how nice it was to have an AD that isn't scared, and goes out there and gets young coaches on the rise. Does anyone feel different about it now?
I still feel like Cohen made a great hire in Cann. I mean I guess there's no way for Cohen to have known it would have ended like this so there's no way I could blame him for the hire. I wonder if this make Cohen consider more mature coaches in the future, or if he'll continue to go after the younger rising stars in coaching. I know JM is a little older, but he kind of fits the same mold of hot commodity, rising name in football. I think I like it in basketball and football, but wouldn't mind if we went for top tier in baseball, just because we should have the resources to pull one in that sport.

[shoeless joe]

There's No comparison between jomo and cann as far as experience and SEChead coach preparedness

[msbulldog]

Up until Friday Cann, was the best hire in the world. Cohen was probably on this problem before then, that we will never know. It not for this unexpected issue, the hiring of Andy Cannizaro could possibly have been the greatest hire in MSU athletic history. At this point Vic Shaefer is our greatest hire!

[msstate7]

Up until Friday Cann, was the best hire in the world. Cohen was probably on this problem before then, that we will never know. It not for this unexpected issue, the hiring of Andy Cannizaro could possibly have been the greatest hire in MSU athletic history. At this point Vic Shaefer is our greatest hire!

Ron Polk is up there

[Turfdawg67]

If we’d had more time, AC, more than likely, wouldn’t have been the head coach. After last year, Cohen looked like a genius. I don’t blame Cohen at all, he couldn’t hold Cann’s pecker... well, he could but that’d be weird.

[HereComesTheSpiral]

You hire the best person for the job, if they screw it up, that is on them.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Thanks for bringing up the subject vv83. I’ve been pondering this myself since Hack broke the story.

The narrative on this board is that Cohen is always prepared and thorough in his business. Regardless of the time he had to make the hire (which is easily debunked by the fact that Henderson was on staff and had experience) and the fact that he couldn’t predict Cann’s sleezy ways - he still was the one that made the hire.

Stricklin gets roasted for the Ray hire, yet is Cohen getting a pass on Cann? Ray didn’t win many games (like Croom), but he at least cleaned up the program. It sounds like Cann was slowly destroying the program, regardless of last year and his recruiting ability.

Does Cohen get a pass because he’s still the AD? He has controlled the narrative very well and I respect his decision to cut bait, but that doesn’t absolve him from his responsibility of tarnishing the program’s image.

[Todd4State]

I think we need to be careful about assuming that every "young" up and coming assistant will end up doing something like Cann did. We're the vast minority in terms of situations like that.

We need to go after the best coach possible- and from what I can tell Cohen values intelligence and being cutting edge over anything else. I have to believe that Cohen will hire someone with those traits.

[msbulldog]

Ron Polk is up there

Yep 7, you're right about Polk, it would have been an absolute if not for Polk II. Let's blame Larry T for that. Hail State! My brother!

[Todd4State]

Thanks for bringing up the subject vv83. I’ve been pondering this myself since Hack broke the story.

The narrative on this board is that Cohen is always prepared and thorough in his business. Regardless of the time he had to make the hire (which is easily debunked by the fact that Henderson was on staff and had experience) and the fact that he couldn’t predict Cann’s sleezy ways - he still was the one that made the hire.

Stricklin gets roasted for the Ray hire, yet is Cohen getting a pass on Cann? Ray didn’t win many games (like Croom), but he at least cleaned up the program. It sounds like Cann was slowly destroying the program, regardless of last year and his recruiting ability.

Does Cohen get a pass because he’s still the AD? He has controlled the narrative very well and I respect his decision to cut bait, but that doesn’t absolve him from his responsibility of tarnishing the program’s image.

It's apples and oranges. Cann was everything Cohen thought he was until his head got too big- which is essentially what happened. It wasn't just the affair in and of itself and that's important to remember. What Cann did with our team last year was almost miraculous. You don't do that as a coach unless you are high caliber. Ray never did anything close to that.

Cohen ended this swiftly- and because of that we have a chance to turn the season around and the very least he minimized the long term damage to the program.

Ray was a terrible hire.

[Coach34]

Ron Polk is up there

No- the Polk hire is the most overrated hire.

We had been the CWS just 5 years before Polk.
We have 17 SEC titles in baseball- Polk won 4 of them.
Polk also benefited by the expansion of the NCAA baseball tourney during the 70's
Once the SEC put money into baseball- Polk became middle of the pack.

The best thing Polk ever did was showing the way for college coaches to build their baseball programs and facilities to keep them from just bleeding money. That is what he will always be remembered for

[JDog13]

Cann just fell victim to the white she devil.

[msbulldog]

Thanks for bringing up the subject vv83. I’ve been pondering this myself since Hack broke the story.

The narrative on this board is that Cohen is always prepared and thorough in his business. Regardless of the time he had to make the hire (which is easily debunked by the fact that Henderson was on staff and had experience) and the fact that he couldn’t predict Cann’s sleezy ways - he still was the one that made the hire.

Stricklin gets roasted for the Ray hire, yet is Cohen getting a pass on Cann? Ray didn’t win many games (like Croom), but he at least cleaned up the program. It sounds like Cann was slowly destroying the program, regardless of last year and his recruiting ability.

Does Cohen get a pass because he’s still the AD? He has controlled the narrative very well and I respect his decision to cut bait, but that doesn’t absolve him from his responsibility of tarnishing the program’s image.

You know a fella named Ron White said "you can't fix stupid"!

[vv83]

Thanks for bringing up the subject vv83. I’ve been pondering this myself since Hack broke the story.

The narrative on this board is that Cohen is always prepared and thorough in his business. Regardless of the time he had to make the hire (which is easily debunked by the fact that Henderson was on staff and had experience) and the fact that he couldn’t predict Cann’s sleezy ways - he still was the one that made the hire.

Stricklin gets roasted for the Ray hire, yet is Cohen getting a pass on Cann? Ray didn’t win many games (like Croom), but he at least cleaned up the program. It sounds like Cann was slowly destroying the program, regardless of last year and his recruiting ability.

Does Cohen get a pass because he’s still the AD? He has controlled the narrative very well and I respect his decision to cut bait, but that doesn’t absolve him from his responsibility of tarnishing the program’s image.

I was also thinking about how Stricklin got roasted for RR but Cohen gets a pass for Cann. I think it's fair to assume Cann would have been more successful than RR was if he could have kept his head on straight. Also, ever since Monday night I've been hearing all these rumors about how Cann was losing the team, and player's didn't like him, etc. I take it with a grain of salt because I never once heard that until he was fired, but do you think that factored into Cohen firing him and cutting his loss? Like, if the players adored him and the locker room was great, but he still made this same mistake I wonder if this would have gone away somehow

[confucius say]

If we’d had more time, AC, more than likely, wouldn’t have been the head coach. After last year, Cohen looked like a genius. I don’t blame Cohen at all, he couldn’t hold Cann’s pecker... well, he could but that’d be weird.

Should have just cut it off instead of holding it

[confucius say]

I think we need to be careful about assuming that every "young" up and coming assistant will end up doing something like Cann did. We're the vast minority in terms of situations like that.

We need to go after the best coach possible- and from what I can tell Cohen values intelligence and being cutting edge over anything else. I have to believe that Cohen will hire someone with those traits.

Yep. Spot on.

[confucius say]

Cann is a hell of a really recruiter and coach. And he can motivate guys. It ain?t on Cohen that Cann couldn?t keep it in his pants. The he was too young argument fails too. Cann will turn 40 soon. That?s plenty old enough for the avg person to know better than to go around banging whores.

RR was a bad recruiter, an average coach at best. It was a horrible hire and SS gets the blame for hiring him.

[msstate7]

No- the Polk hire is the most overrated hire.

We had been the CWS just 5 years before Polk.
We have 17 SEC titles in baseball- Polk won 4 of them.
Polk also benefited by the expansion of the NCAA baseball tourney during the 70's
Once the SEC put money into baseball- Polk became middle of the pack.

The best thing Polk ever did was showing the way for college coaches to build their baseball programs and facilities to keep them from just bleeding money. That is what he will always be remembered for

We have been to the CWS 9 times... 7 were under Polk. Most of Polk tenure was while Bertman was at LSU, so sec titles were hard to come by

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

We have been to the CWS 9 times... 6 were under Polk. Most of Polk tenure was while Bertman was at LSU, so sec titles were hard to come by

FiFY

The 1998 appearance was McMahon.

[Coach34]

We have been to the CWS 9 times... 7 were under Polk. Most of Polk tenure was while Bertman was at LSU, so sec titles were hard to come by

Fake News

Gregory CWS in 1971
MacMahon in 1998
Cohen in 2013

As has been mentioned over and over and over- the basketball and baseball tourneys werent expanded . The NCAA baseball Tourney was only 8 teams for years- until it expanded to 32 in 1975- the year before Polk became our coach. So Polk came to State right as the NCAA Tourney expanded to 8 regionals of 4 teams and it continued expansion thru the 80's. This was all at time Polk had the best stadium in the country built for him- and other SEC programs refused to put money into baseball.

Polk had an 8 year head start on Bertman- yet was overtaken almost immediately. After Bertman arrived and then Clark, Palmeiro, Brantley, and Thigpen graduated the next season- Polk only won 1 SEC title and only made 3 CWS appearances in 19 seasons at State.

[msstate7]

Fake News

Gregory CWS in 1971
MacMahon in 1998
Cohen in 2013

As has been mentioned over and over and over- the basketball and baseball tourneys werent expanded . The NCAA baseball Tourney was only 8 teams for years- until it expanded to 32 in 1975- the year before Polk became our coach. So Polk came to State right as the NCAA Tourney expanded to 8 regionals of 4 teams and it continued expansion thru the 80's. This was all at time Polk had the best stadium in the country built for him- and other SEC programs refused to put money into baseball.

Polk had an 8 year head start on Bertman- yet was overtaken almost immediately. After Bertman arrived and then Clark, Palmeiro, Brantley, and Thigpen graduated the next season- Polk only won 1 SEC title and only made 3 CWS appearances in 19 seasons at State.

6 of our 9 CWS, my bad...

1979, 1981, 1985, 1990, 1997, 2007

[BiscuitEater]

Stricklin gets roasted for the Ray hire, yet is Cohen getting a pass on Cann?

Ahh .. Ray couldn't recruit OR coach. It took Howland 2 1/2 years to turn the BB program around. Cann could recruit AND coach. HUGE difference. This is on Cann NOT Cohen,

[LC Dawg]

Although Cohen had to make a hire quickly he will tell you that he had been watching Cann for a while in case he had the opportunity to hire him. I think a little of this has to fall on Cohen and I think he would agree. Part of hiring someone for a public position is knowing about them personally as well as professionally. I?ll bet Cohen will have blood pressure spikes for a while when thinking about this.

[Coach34]

Gregory went 21-5-1 and 14-1-1 in the SEC during 1962 and didnt even make the postseason

[BiscuitEater]

No- the Polk hire is the most overrated hire.

We had been the CWS just 5 years before Polk.
We have 17 SEC titles in baseball- Polk won 4 of them.
Polk also benefited by the expansion of the NCAA baseball tourney during the 70's
Once the SEC put money into baseball- Polk became middle of the pack.

The best thing Polk ever did was showing the way for college coaches to build their baseball programs and facilities to keep them from just bleeding money. That is what he will always be remembered for

Got the memo .. you DESPISE Polk AND Stans!

Polk hire is NOT overrated. You can't have it both ways .. we won most of those 17 SEC baseball titles when NO ONE other than MSU cared about baseball.

[Coach34]

T

Stricklin gets roasted for the Ray hire, yet is Cohen getting a pass on Cann? .

Cann made the Sweet 16 last year. Ray never won 16 did he?

[Coach34]

Polk hire is NOT overrated. You can't have it both ways .. we won most of those 17 SEC baseball titles when NO ONE other than MSU cared about baseball.

Who is trying to have it both ways? We were a baseball school before Polk and continue to be one after him. He had 3 CWS appearances his last 19 seasons here- most people at State would call that underachieving

[msbulldog]

No- the Polk hire is the most overrated hire.

We had been the CWS just 5 years before Polk.
We have 17 SEC titles in baseball- Polk won 4 of them.
Polk also benefited by the expansion of the NCAA baseball tourney during the 70's
Once the SEC put money into baseball- Polk became middle of the pack.

The best thing Polk ever did was showing the way for college coaches to build their baseball programs and facilities to keep them from just bleeding money. That is what he will always be remembered for

BAHHHH HUMBUGGGG!!!!

[bulldogcountry1]

Yeah, I don't see how Cohen can take any responsibility for this. It's obvious that he did a lot of research. If there had been even a hint of a problem, he would have passed.

That said, I bet Cohen takes a deeper look into the personal life of the next candidates.

[Bulldog1]

Stricklin gets roasted for the Ray hire, yet is Cohen getting a pass on Cann?

Ray was an awful hire. We didn’t improve in 3 years. He couldn’t recruit and he couldn’t really coach. Just a disaster in over his head. Cann was a really good/ great baseball coach that had off the field issues. Yes, to me, Cohen gets a pass on this one.

[Coach34]

In the last 5 seasons we have made the CWS and 2 other Supers- the baseball program will be fine as long as the right coach replaces Cann. We arent in a dead period like we were when Polk tried to kill the program at the end of his career

[Todd4State]

I was also thinking about how Stricklin got roasted for RR but Cohen gets a pass for Cann. I think it's fair to assume Cann would have been more successful than RR was if he could have kept his head on straight. Also, ever since Monday night I've been hearing all these rumors about how Cann was losing the team, and player's didn't like him, etc. I take it with a grain of salt because I never once heard that until he was fired, but do you think that factored into Cohen firing him and cutting his loss? Like, if the players adored him and the locker room was great, but he still made this same mistake I wonder if this would have gone away somehow

That's because for once in our MSU lifetimes we took care of things before they got way too far out of hand.

And I'm not sure how much of a difference it would have made, but Cann allegedly lied about the affairs when Cohen asked him about it. If Cann had told Cohen the truth? I don't know what happens.

But yes, the players absolutely factored in. Some of them were interviewed about it and some had expressed their concerns to Cohen about Cann.

I think if he had simply kept coaching hard like he did last year and told the truth he would still be around. And maybe not? We'll never know.

[tireddawg]

Yeah, I don't see how Cohen can take any responsibility for this. It's obvious that he did a lot of research. If there had been even a hint of a problem, he would have passed.

That said, I bet Cohen takes a deeper look into the personal life of the next candidates.

Come on, you think Cann just got this way?There was a hint.

ETA: I'm not blaming Cohen for hiring him. I would have to. Arguably the best young up & comer in the country.

[Todd4State]

In the last 5 seasons we have made the CWS and 2 other Supers- the baseball program will be fine as long as the right coach replaces Cann. We arent in a dead period like we were when Polk tried to kill the program at the end of his career

If anything I think our ceiling is higher than it ever has been.

Case in point? Compare the names in the coaching search this time around to when Polk II left. You won't see Baseball America saying we should give Mitch Thompson a shot.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think Cohen made a brilliant hire - in Gary Henderson. By having Henderson on staff, he had a steady, experienced coach to back up Cann. Cann - while a hot commodity - was still unknown in terms of program management and loyalty. That is risky. What if Cann had done well last year, and the Yankees came calling with a AAA job or a shot at #2 in NY (Hell, they hired Aaron ****ing Boone - they could have just as well hired Cann). You had a trusted insurance policy sitting on the bench - and now that is paying off.

[Coach34]

great point Brunswick

[bulldogcountry1]

Henderson was a good hire. I was surprised that we were able to hire him, and surprised we were able to keep him after Cann was hired. After seeing him for a couple years now, he strikes me as a guy who's content with being a well paid assistant who doesn't have to be the public face of a large program. I guess we will see if that's the case.

[Bdawg]

Ahh .. Ray couldn't recruit OR coach. It took Howland 2 1/2 years to turn the BB program around. Cann could recruit AND coach. HUGE difference. This is on Cann NOT Cohen,

My thought exactly

[Gutter Cobreh]

Ahh .. Ray couldn't recruit OR coach. It took Howland 2 1/2 years to turn the BB program around. Cann could recruit AND coach. HUGE difference. This is on Cann NOT Cohen,


Cann made the Sweet 16 last year. Ray never won 16 did he?

Maybe I wasn’t clear — I’m not suggesting Ray was a good coach. I was just making a comparison on how a coaching hire shaped what people here say about Stricklin, yet that doesn’t seem to apply to Cohen.

I seem to be in the minority that think quite a bit of this does fall on Cohen’s shoulders. While no one ever makes great hires 100% of the time, this hire was his first, in his sport, and to be his successor. He owns some of the blame.

His legacy will be about hires/fires in the 3 big sports and he isn’t off to a good start....

[BuckyIsAB****]

I think Cohen is the best AD in the country, Im biased but who cares, and I wouldnt trade him for anyone. Hes probably one of the select few that really actually loves his school and always will put State first.

Amazing to think we've had Greg Byrne and John Cohen as AD's in recent years. 2 of the best in the country

[Jack Lambert]

Thanks for bringing up the subject vv83. I?ve been pondering this myself since Hack broke the story.

The narrative on this board is that Cohen is always prepared and thorough in his business. Regardless of the time he had to make the hire (which is easily debunked by the fact that Henderson was on staff and had experience) and the fact that he couldn?t predict Cann?s sleezy ways - he still was the one that made the hire.

Stricklin gets roasted for the Ray hire, yet is Cohen getting a pass on Cann? Ray didn?t win many games (like Croom), but he at least cleaned up the program. It sounds like Cann was slowly destroying the program, regardless of last year and his recruiting ability.

Does Cohen get a pass because he?s still the AD? He has controlled the narrative very well and I respect his decision to cut bait, but that doesn?t absolve him from his responsibility of tarnishing the program?s image.

Stricklin let ray stay too long when everyone knew he wasn't worth a shit after two seasons and we let Croom stay three years too long. Cohen had enough sense to let the guy go. Stricklin and Templeton were dumb asses.

[Jack Lambert]

In the last 5 seasons we have made the CWS and 2 other Supers- the baseball program will be fine as long as the right coach replaces Cann. We arent in a dead period like we were when Polk tried to kill the program at the end of his career

Agreed. It has too many pluses going for it.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Stricklin let ray stay too long when everyone knew he wasn't worth a shit after two seasons and we let Croom stay three years too long. Cohen had enough sense to let the guy go. Stricklin and Templeton were dumb asses.

So you're saying fire Croom after the 05 season?

[Gutter Cobreh]

Stricklin let ray stay too long when everyone knew he wasn't worth a shit after two seasons and we let Croom stay three years too long. Cohen had enough sense to let the guy go. Stricklin and Templeton were dumb asses.

This I can understand! Thanks for an objective rebuttal and I agree!

[LC Dawg]

I think if he had simply kept coaching hard

I think this was part of the problem.

[BrunswickDawg]

Maybe I wasn’t clear — I’m not suggesting Ray was a good coach. I was just making a comparison on how a coaching hire shaped what people here say about Stricklin, yet that doesn’t seem to apply to Cohen.

I seem to be in the minority that think quite a bit of this does fall on Cohen’s shoulders. While no one ever makes great hires 100% of the time, this hire was his first, in his sport, and to be his successor. He owns some of the blame.

His legacy will be about hires/fires in the 3 big sports and he isn’t off to a good start....
It comes down to where your successes and failures come. I think Strick made some strong hires in the minor sports - Van, track coach, golf coaches - not to mention he hired Vic. But, the combo of being too scared of Dick Move to motivate him and the Ray hire negate those positives.

[yjnkdawg]

Thanks for bringing up the subject vv83. I?ve been pondering this myself since Hack broke the story.

The narrative on this board is that Cohen is always prepared and thorough in his business. Regardless of the time he had to make the hire (which is easily debunked by the fact that Henderson was on staff and had experience) and the fact that he couldn?t predict Cann?s sleezy ways - he still was the one that made the hire.

Stricklin gets roasted for the Ray hire, yet is Cohen getting a pass on Cann? Ray didnt win many games (like Croom), but he at least cleaned up the program. It sounds like Cann was slowly destroying the program, regardless of last year and his recruiting ability.

Does Cohen get a pass because he?s still the AD? He has controlled the narrative very well and I respect his decision to cut bait, but that doesn?t absolve him from his responsibility of tarnishing the program?s image.

Cohen is going to try and hire the best person available,and who he believes can move the specific athletic program forward and hopefully to the next level. He does not have a crystal ball where he can foresee what the future holds for someone who had Cohen's confidence and trust, and one who Cohen felt could move our baseball program to the next level. and then this coach who had this golden opportunity blows it. I think if you go back and check what was said by the baseball people in the know. They thought that Cohen made a great hire and that Cann was an up and coming outstanding young coach, and was a great fit for MSU.

[confucius say]

Maybe I wasn’t clear — I’m not suggesting Ray was a good coach. I was just making a comparison on how a coaching hire shaped what people here say about Stricklin, yet that doesn’t seem to apply to Cohen.

I seem to be in the minority that think quite a bit of this does fall on Cohen’s shoulders. While no one ever makes great hires 100% of the time, this hire was his first, in his sport, and to be his successor. He owns some of the blame.

His legacy will be about hires/fires in the 3 big sports and he isn’t off to a good start....

Bc SS hired a bad COACH. He took a gamble on an unknown and Ray sucked as a coach.

Cohen hired a great coach when nobody knew the guy would be a great coach. He took a gamble on an unknown and his instincts were right. Not his fault Cann couldn?t keep in his pants.

You can argue Cohen?s instincts were off regarding Cann as a person, but you can?t argue his instincts in hiring a ball coach. Far superior to those of SS.