Sankey?s Letter in the gun law.....

[Liverpooldawg]

Yeah....lets join their conference!

I'd love it! I'd love it as I'd get to see USC regularly. I could even go and root for them with no reservations when they came to Oxford. That being said, they would never take us, on this issue alone. There are others.

[Coach007]

They are in the conference that has schools from California, Washington, and Oregon. Those are some very liberal states. Kinda weird this bothers the sec more than the pac12

It's kinda pathetic some value games over rights.

[Liverpooldawg]

Right now it is my understanding if they see a weapon on anyone attempting to enter the stadium they would be refused entry based on the fact they have a no firearms sign posted at the entrances. They can legally do that for all people who do not have an EC. If you have an EC but are intoxicated, and are discovered to have a weapon they can arrest you anywhere as that is illegal.

As it stands now they can do it no matter the circumstances if you have a gun, and aren't law enforcement, at their discretion.

[Liverpooldawg]

They are in the conference that has schools from California, Washington, and Oregon. Those are some very liberal states. Kinda weird this bothers the sec more than the pac12

They don't have people poisoning trees out there either. It just means more here, and that's not just a cute marketing slogan.

[Liverpooldawg]

It's kinda pathetic some value games over rights.

But you don't have a right to take a gun into a place that bans them. Settled law. If it ever got to the scotus, it would hold.

[Dawg61]

It's kinda pathetic some value games over rights.

Kinda pathetic some refuse to use common sense when it comes to the 2nd amendment.

[BeardoMSU]

It's kinda pathetic some value games over rights.

I'm just trying to enjoy a football game. Ya know....one could just stay their ass at home, and sit in the nude watching the game on their 20" tubed Zenith, masturbating (a sin I know...) to all the blued-steel firepower surrounding them....that's also an option right?

[Coach007]

I voted for the new flag in that vote. I hated the new design offered, but I totally understand why African-Americans hate that flag. Your flag should be a symbol that unites your entire popipulation, or at the worst doesn't alienate 40% of them. I assume HB1523 is the religious right bill. That one I support. I wouldn't force a Muslim baker to create and bake a same sex wedding cake against their will. Nor would a do that to a Christian one. I wouldn't force Jewish one to bake one featuring a Swastica. I wouldn't force a Nazi baker to bake one featuring a Star of David. I wouldn't force a atheist to bake one featuring a Cross, and I'm a devout Christian. Now if any of those already stocked those and refused to sell one to whoever, THAT I would oppose. I'm in the healthcare industry. I would never turn anyone away based Oman politics or religion. For one thing health at the delivery level has no politics. For another as a Christian we are instructed to love even our enemies.

So what if the SEC came in and stated that the law MS passed protecting bakers will get them thrown out.... Would that prompt you to abandon that over football? Even though upheld in courts?

[Coach007]

But you don't have a right to take a gun into a place that bans them. Settled law. If it ever got to the scotus, it would hold.


It is settled law. Has been ruled ob many many time... FL, Utah, Tx, etc etc... over and over. A public colleges can NOT ban guns! Should I list those again?

[PassInterference]

1) ECL folks aren't trained anywhere near the level of LEO. Period end of discussion.

2) Every professional team and high school venue bans weapons so why can't colleges?

3) Is it worth the risk of losing the 9 figures a year that college athletics brings into the state of MS?

4) It's funny seeing the tea party argue against their own arguments used for other bills passed in prior years.

1. Debatable depending on the instructor. I was fortunate to have one that thought better practices than LE gets. LE practices more often than me, but I have better technique and safety practices.

2. Wrong. Those places can?t ban enhanced carry permitted carry.

3. The risk is overstated seeing as how the carry laws have been in place for 7 years now. The current bill that people are knee jerking over doesn?t add any additional carry privlesges.

4. Nothing to do with a party and thanks for recognizing that conservatives can have intelligent discussions instead of just doing whatever a party wants.

[Liverpooldawg]

No we don't, and to talk of paranoid, Sankey's little threat has you pretty much that way.

It's gamesmanship, and you are reacting like he would hope.

BTW, where do you live?

In Mississippi in the same very rural county I grew up in. It's as conservative as it gets and I'm very much mainstream here. We were talking about this at Rotary today (yes Rotary, that most conservative of orginazations in rural Mississippi) and we all agreed that guns at ball games is just plain stupid. I expect some of those guys are carriers.


Of course I acted the way he hoped I would. It's not politics, it's just plain old horse sense born from decades of going to ballgames. .

[Coach007]

Kinda pathetic some refuse to use common sense when it comes to the 2nd amendment.

Utah over a decade.... Common sense. Over 16 states are in the process of allowing concealed carry on campuses. That will be over half the states. V Tech.... mass shooting in 2007 banned them. Nobody could protect themselves because they were banned.

Court after court has ruled that Public colleges can NOT restrict rights.

Common sense is that when you force me to your rules but 1 mad man gets past your rules..... people die in mass! V Tech is the example.

[Coach007]

I'm just trying to enjoy a football game. Ya know....one could just stay their ass at home, and sit in the nude watching the game on their 20" tubed Zenith, masturbating (a sin I know...) to all the blued-steel firepower surrounding them....that's also an option right?

Ever been to a game at Utah? Tx?

The SEC warned, and the House passed it anyway!

[Liverpooldawg]

Utah over a decade.... Common sense. Over 16 states are in the process of allowing concealed carry on campuses. That will be over half the states. V Tech.... mass shooting in 2007 banned them. Nobody could protect themselves because they were banned.

Court after court has ruled that Public colleges can NOT restrict rights.

Common sense is that when you force me to your rules but 1 mad man gets past your rules..... people die in mass! V Tech is the example.

Ballgames are just different. I think it ought to be like it is at the Hump, and that's coming to football venues. If we don't go along, we are out, and that's fact, like it or not.

[Liverpooldawg]

Ever been to a game at Utah? Tx?

The SEC warned, and the House passed it anyway!

And the SEC will act, if it passes.

[Dawg61]

Utah over a decade.... Common sense. Over 16 states are in the process of allowing concealed carry on campuses. That will be over half the states. V Tech.... mass shooting in 2007 banned them. Nobody could protect themselves because they were banned.

Court after court has ruled that Public colleges can NOT restrict rights.

Common sense is that when you force me to your rules but 1 mad man gets past your rules..... people die in mass! V Tech is the example.

When one of the other states that has an SEC school in it allows guns in stadiums Mississippi can follow their lead. We can't be the pace car on this issue though.

[Dawg61]

If we don't go along, we are out, and that's fact, like it or not.

That's not fact. You think Sankey will kick us out but it will never get to that point where he could even make that decision and he doesn't have absolute power in kicking a founding SEC member out anyways. It'll get resolved before then. MSU ain't about to give up SEC money over guns.

[Coach007]

And the SEC will act, if it passes.

No they do not want the negative feed back. I can tell you now that should they try it they will have a massive blow back, It the SEC.. SOUTH eastern conference. It would likely mean that Shanky would be fired!

There is no way he would remain

[Liverpooldawg]

That's not fact. You think Sankey will kick us out but it will never get to that point where he could even make that decision and he doesn't have absolute power in kicking a founding SEC member out anyways. It'll get resolved before then. MSU ain't about to give up SEC money over guns.

As I said earlier I agree with you, if we are allowed to make our own decision, Mark Keenum has made that very clear. As a public arm of the State of Mississippi we may not be able to. Sankey speaks for the membership as a whole, not us. I ain't arguing with you dude. I know you don't like me but we are on the same side here, if you can recognize that. Some of the people in this thread have said if it comes to guns or MSU, they choose guns.

[Coach007]

Ballgames are just different. I think it ought to be like it is at the Hump, and that's coming to football venues. If we don't go along, we are out, and that's fact, like it or not.

No they are not. V tech could not protect their students from a mass shooting. They banned guns. Courts will rule in favor of Mississippi.

It's not a fact. What will happen is the people of this state and others will look at it as an over step by an entity. SHANKEY works at the pleasure of the SEC SCHOOLS.. He is NOT an absolute power.

THis isn't a flag issue..... this is a 2nd issue, and he is being seen as a dictator right now in 2 states and he won't touch Ole Miss and MSU.

[Liverpooldawg]

No they do not want the negative feed back. I can tell you now that should they try it they will have a massive blow back, It the SEC.. SOUTH eastern conference. It would likely mean that Shanky would be fired!

There is no way he would remain

Actually it's already happened, Arkansas did what the SEC wanted. The majority of the membership will vote with him on this, and did there. He won't be out. The voters are the university presidents remember. Our own has come out against this bill, and that was before the SEC letter. The UM chancellor has too.

[Liverpooldawg]

No they are not. V tech could not protect their students from a mass shooting. They banned guns. Courts will rule in favor of Mississippi.

It's not a fact. What will happen is the people of this state and others will look at it as an over step by an entity. SHANKEY works at the pleasure of the SEC SCHOOLS.. He is NOT an absolute power.

THis isn't a flag issue..... this is a 2nd issue, and he is being seen as a dictator right now in 2 states and he won't touch Ole Miss and MSU.

They won't rule for us man. That's just delusional. This isn't a legal issue, it's a conference bylaw. The courts have coansistently rulled in favor of the VOLUNTARY organization here. Sorry.

[Coach007]

Actually it's already happened, Arkansas did what the SEC wanted. The majority of the membership will vote with him on this. He won't be out. The voters are the university presidents remember. Our own has come out against this bill, and that was before the SEC letter. The UM chancellor has too.

And people in Ark are pissed. You keep forgetting the order of things...

1- the people elect politicians
2- Our President and Ole Miss president is hired and paid by WHOM.

If a president can't stand for the rights in the US constitution and the State passes a law backing that up and court after court has ruled against colleges.... he needs to GO!

[Coach007]

They won't rule for us man. That's just delusional. This isn't a legal issue, it's a conference bylaw. The courts have coansistently rulled in favor of the VOLUNTARY organization here. Sorry.

What bylaw?

[Liverpooldawg]

What bylaw?

The SEC does not allow firearms in a game except in a official law enforcement capacity.

[Coach007]

The SEC does not allow firearms in a game except in a official law enforcement capacity.

By law please?

[Liverpooldawg]

And people in Ark are pissed. You keep forgetting the order of things...

1- the people elect politicians
2- Our President and Ole Miss president is hired and paid by WHOM.

If a president can't stand for the rights in the US constitution and the State passes a law backing that up and court after court has ruled against colleges.... he needs to GO!

You keep mistaking the SEC for the government. It's not a government entity. Our president and the Um chancellor would vot against kicking us out obviously. That's 2 out of 14.

[Liverpooldawg]

By law please?

I don't know the number, but. all our security policies are designed to fulfill SEC requirements. That includes no guns. Jeeze this ain't rocket surgery or the bar exam.

[Coach007]

You keep mistaking the SEC for the government. It's not a government entity. Our president and the Um chancellor would vot against kicking us out obviously. That's 2 out of 14.

No no. I get it. And gov is involved in who the president of MSU is.


As to them voting us out, they would have to have grounds.

What by law are we breaking?

Here is the PDF of the 2017/18 by laws. Where is it at?


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2017/0822/2017-18%20SEC%20Constitution%20and%20Bylaws.pdf


I want to read them

[LC Dawg]

And people in Ark are pissed. You keep forgetting the order of things...

1- the people elect politicians
2- Our President and Ole Miss president is hired and paid by WHOM.

If a president can't stand for the rights in the US constitution and the State passes a law backing that up and court after court has ruled against colleges.... he needs to GO!

So you are saying that if Mark Keenum fights to keep concealed carry out of Davis Wade he needs to be fired?

[msstate7]

So you are saying that if Mark Keenum fights to keep concealed carry out of Davis Wade he needs to be fired?

If Keenum catches heat, it should be for us losing R1 status on his watch, not this imo

[WinningIsRelentless]

Here's a solution that State and Ole Miss admin is kicking around per an attorney friend of mine.

If this bill passes and both presidents hope it doesn't, they will lease the stadium on game day to a event operation company who will then put on the game. This will allow it to be a private event thus allowing the event production company to ban guns.

[drunkernhelldawg]

This only applies to enhanced carry license holders. Not every Tom, Dick, and Harry has one and/or can pass the requirements to obtain one. I'm on the fence, but for Sankey and the media to paint this as broad as they're trying is complete BS.

It's not that rigorous. Pay the money and take the class. You get it.

The media is not who is passing this call it whatever you want law.

[Dawgology]

I guarantee you you have been sitting by a bunch of people carrying in games. AGAIN, it has been allowed for years. If you are scared of licensed holders, you probably shouldn't leave your house.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Carrying a gun in the public is much different than allowing an armed individual who may have been drinking in the midst of 75k people in a confined space with limited exit points. The risk for the second scenario is obviously much higher.

To the person who said they trust their own skill more than security at the game: every security officer you see wearing a gun at the game is a certified law enforcement officer. That?s qualification 4 times a year and scenario training at least once a year. Plus a lot of mandatory gun retention and strategy training in between. They may not all look like Navy Seals but I guarantee you they can put a bullet where it?s supposed to go and, more importantly, know when not to fire and how to handle a crowded situation. If your training is on par with that then you are good to go.

But...if there is a situation in the stadium and you pull your gun and your not wearing the correct identifier I can pretty much guarnatee your day will end quickly and poorly. Guns in a stadium or arena is just a very bad idea.

[WesternSkyDawg]

On the idea that we should just strap it on and duke it out with the SEC/NCAA because we feel Mississippi law trumps them, we've tried that before. And lost. Big time. Larry Gillard. Lesson should've been learned, but some seem to be confusing their bravado with reality.

To those that claim "this doesn't change the law", you're engaging in intellectual dishonesty. We know about 2011. But 2011 did not re-codify premises law. You still may be limited by your voluntary purchase of a ticket/license. No one is forcing you to go to football games. If you don't want to agree to leave your pacifier at home, you don't have to buy a ticket. (Or "peacemaker" if you prefer). But the ticket that is offered to you for purchase carries with it conditions. One of which is that you may not bring a weapon into the stadium. This bill would eliminate the ability of the school to impose that condition on your purchase of the license.

If you refuse to acknowledge this distinction when making your argument, and insist on claiming "this doesn't change the law; it's already on the books", you're flat out lying just to serve your self-interest.

On your peacemaking abilities in a large crowd up to 65,000 and more, MSU, and the SEC, and just about every college campus, and high school, and professional team, and concert arena, and international sports arena, have decided that it prefers to leave the peacemaking to official security. Can the world be made perfectly safe? Of course not. But they've made that decision based not only on common sense, but on significant research and consultations with security experts the world over. Most seem to think that's a wise decision. If you don't, this is America. You have the option to stay the hell at home and let the rest of us keep enjoying SEC football.

[starkvegasdawg]

Here's a solution that State and Ole Miss admin is kicking around per an attorney friend of mine.

If this bill passes and both presidents hope it doesn't, they will lease the stadium on game day to a event operation company who will then put on the game. This will allow it to be a private event thus allowing the event production company to ban guns.

Just to play devil?s advocate here, but here is one possible unintended consequence if they do that. An EC goes to the game and is unarmed due to this scenario. At 11:30pm he and his family are walking back to their vehicle parked on the other side of campus. On the way back in a poorly lit area they are assaulted and robbed at gun point and his wife is shot in the process. He may then be able to sue the university for not providing adequate security and denying himself the ability to defend himself and his family. And before you say that would never go anywhere remember a woman sued McDonalds because she spilled coffee on herself and got burned and she claimed they were negligent by not putting a warning on her cup.

[Liverpooldawg]

On the idea that we should just strap it on and duke it out with the SEC/NCAA because we feel Mississippi law trumps them, we've tried that before. And lost. Big time. Larry Gillard. Lesson should've been learned, but some seem to be confusing their bravado with reality.

To those that claim "this doesn't change the law", you're engaging in intellectual dishonesty. We know about 2011. But 2011 did not re-codify premises law. You still may be limited by your voluntary purchase of a ticket/license. No one is forcing you to go to football games. If you don't want to agree to leave your pacifier at home, you don't have to buy a ticket. (Or "peacemaker" if you prefer). But the ticket that is offered to you for purchase carries with it conditions. One of which is that you may not bring a weapon into the stadium. This bill would eliminate the ability of the school to impose that condition on your purchase of the license.

If you refuse to acknowledge this distinction when making your argument, and insist on claiming "this doesn't change the law; it's already on the books", you're flat out lying just to serve your self-interest.

On your peacemaking abilities in a large crowd up to 65,000 and more, MSU, and the SEC, and just about every college campus, and high school, and professional team, and concert arena, and international sports arena, have decided that it prefers to leave the peacemaking to official security. Can the world be made perfectly safe? Of course not. But they've made that decision based not only on common sense, but on significant research and consultations with security experts the world over. Most seem to think that's a wise decision. If you don't, this is America. You have the option to stay the hell at home and let the rest of us keep enjoying SEC football.

Very good post

[Liverpooldawg]

It's not that rigorous. Pay the money and take the class. You get it.

The media is not who is passing this call it whatever you want law.

Exactly

[Liverpooldawg]

No no. I get it. And gov is involved in who the president of MSU is.


As to them voting us out, they would have to have grounds.

What by law are we breaking?

Here is the PDF of the 2017/18 by laws. Where is it at?


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2017/0822/2017-18%20SEC%20Constitution%20and%20Bylaws.pdf


I want to read them

We would be breaking league mandated security policies. It?s why we had to go to clear bags and have metal detectors at the Hump. We can?t just go our own way with this.

[Srt201]

And before you say that would never go anywhere remember a woman sued McDonalds because she spilled coffee on herself and got burned and she claimed they were negligent by not putting a warning on her cup.

I know people think the McDonalds lawsuit was frivolous but if you’ll forgive the website. It was the quickest one I could find.

Read this: https://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/truth-behind-mcdonalds-hot-coffee-lawsuit.html

[Coach007]

Very good post

Large crowd was shot up not long ago... the guy didnt have anybody shooting back at him.

Nobody went to that concert thinking they were not safe.

[Coach007]

Again... university of utah... over a decade of allowing it.

[BeardoMSU]

Large crowd was shot up not long ago... the guy didnt have anybody shooting back at him.

Nobody went to that concert thinking they were not safe.

He also want standing in the middle of a crowd...

[WinningIsRelentless]

Again... university of utah... over a decade of allowing it.

90% of the state is Mormon. They don't drink.

[Dawg61]

Large crowd was shot up not long ago... the guy didnt have anybody shooting back at him.

Nobody went to that concert thinking they were not safe.

He was 1,000 feet away shooting from a hotel window. Your argument is equivalent to saying all planes should allow passengers to carry guns cause 9/11.

[Liverpooldawg]

Large crowd was shot up not long ago... the guy didnt have anybody shooting back at him.

Nobody went to that concert thinking they were not safe.

Tell me how you with your small concealed carry pistol would have been able to do anything about the Vegas sniper. This I have to hear. You must be Matt Dillon. Do you have to reload or do you just load on Sunday?

[BrunswickDawg]

Large crowd was shot up not long ago... the guy didnt have anybody shooting back at him.

Nobody went to that concert thinking they were not safe.

Ah, the random "good guy with a gun argument". In the case of a mass shooting, has the shooter ever been brought down by a random CC holder who was not a LEO?? I can't think of an instance where that happened. And since mass shootings happen almost daily, you would think that the some "good guy with a gun" would have gotten lucky enough to pop off a shot by now.

[Tbonewannabe]

Tell me how you with your small concealed carry pistol would have been able to do anything about the Vegas sniper. This I have to hear. You must be Matt Dillon. Do you have to reload or do you just load on Sunday?

One of the bands that was on stage ran to their RV, all of them had concealed carry pistols. They realized that the cops wouldn't know they weren't bad guys with the chaos going on so they left them in the RV. If you and another person start running around with guns then you don't know who the bad guy is. Unless you see them shoot someone and then you shoot them, who is to say another person doesn't shoot you because they saw you gun down the actual shooter. I don't care how much training you have to go through to get your permit, that situation would be extremely chaotic and even professionals would have a tough time.

[Coach007]

Tell me how you with your small concealed carry pistol would have been able to do anything about the Vegas sniper. This I have to hear. You must be Matt Dillon. Do you have to reload or do you just load on Sunday?

That's not the point. The point is and will remain that those people were not protected and their right to try was taken from them.

[Liverpooldawg]

One of the bands that was on stage ran to their RV, all of them had concealed carry pistols. They realized that the cops wouldn't know they weren't bad guys with the chaos going on so they left them in the RV. If you and another person start running around with guns then you don't know who the bad guy is. Unless you see them shoot someone and then you shoot them, who is to say another person doesn't shoot you because they saw you gun down the actual shooter. I don't care how much training you have to go through to get your permit, that situation would be extremely chaotic and even professionals would have a tough time.

I agree. In that situation anyone who pulled a gun on the concert floor would have almost certainly been gunned down by the police.

[Tbonewannabe]

Ah, the random "good guy with a gun argument". In the case of a mass shooting, has the shooter ever been brought down by a random CC holder who was not a LEO?? I can't think of an instance where that happened. And since mass shootings happen almost daily, you would think that the some "good guy with a gun" would have gotten lucky enough to pop off a shot by now.

Mass shootings are becoming a common occurrence to the point that the President doesn't even hold press conferences about them now. It took him over 24 hours to even tweet about it and nothing is being done. Australia had a mass shooter in 1996 that led to eliminating automatic and semi automatic guns. They haven't had a mass shooting since but thanks to money and politics the US is just doubling down on everyone having guns. I am all for having a gun for home protection, hunting, or sport shooting but there is exactly zero people in the world that need assault weapons other than military.

For all the people that say the people need weapons to keep the government in check, there are drones with bombs now so if the government really wanted to create a genocide, there isn't anything anyone can do. A random militia in the middle of nowhere doesn't stand a chance if the USA military wants them to disappear. The US military is kicking total ass in Afganistan and Iraq, those are against militias armed a lot better than any person in the US could be.

[Dawg61]

That's not the point. The point is and will remain that those people were not protected and their right to try was taken from them.

I'd argue their right to try and protect themselves was put in serious jeopardy when psychos are allowed buy 30 AR-15's in a year

[Coach007]

Ah, the random "good guy with a gun argument". In the case of a mass shooting, has the shooter ever been brought down by a random CC holder who was not a LEO?? I can't think of an instance where that happened. And since mass shootings happen almost daily, you would think that the some "good guy with a gun" would have gotten lucky enough to pop off a shot by now.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/arlington/2017/05/03/two-people-killed-third-wounded-arlington-restaurant-shooting-reports-say


Hero' stopped mass murder by crazed bar patron who was armed to the teeth, police say

[Liverpooldawg]

That's not the point. The point is and will remain that those people were not protected and their right to try was taken from them.

You brought it up as an example of how concealed carry would have helped prevent a mass shooting. I want to hear how you would have been able to do anything from 1000 feet away with your little concealable pistol. I have one pistol, a Beretta 92 9mm. That's one of the most stable pistols out there. I'm pretty decent with it out to 20 yrds or so. Beyond that it gets chancy for me. I will acknowledge I'm not the greatest shot in the world but pretty much anyone would need a HUGE amount of luck to hit what they were aiming at with that nice heavy, stable Beretta at the distance the that shooter was operating at. You would just as likely hit someone in the next room.

[Dawg61]

For all the people that say the people need weapons to keep the government in check, there are drones with bombs now so if the government really wanted to create a genocide, there isn't anything anyone can do. A random militia in the middle of nowhere doesn't stand a chance if the USA military wants them to disappear. The US military is kicking total ass in Afganistan and Iraq, those are against militias armed a lot better than any person in the US could be.

But in 1792 our forefathers had the ability to see into the future of over 230 years and they knew that everrrrrrbody needs an assault rifle that hadn't even been invented yet cause what they wrote 3 centuries ago should apply to all USA citizens till the end of time. Cause 2nd amendment boy!!!

[Coach007]

Again... not the point. You can not protect 65k people. It is impossible.

[Tbonewannabe]

But in 1792 our forefathers had the ability to see into the future of over 230 years and they knew that everrrrrrbody needs an assault rifle that hadn't even been invented yet cause what they wrote 3 centuries ago should apply to all USA citizens till the end of time. Cause 2nd amendment boy!!!

Too much money involved now. The NRA is one of the biggest lobbiest compared to the amount of money spent buying politicians and how big their membership is. You would think weapon manufacturers would be content with about 70% of the United States budget being spent on the military. Anytime you can lose 1 trillion dollars and don't know where it went, you have too much money.

[Coach007]

But in 1792 our forefathers had the ability to see into the future of over 230 years and they knew that everrrrrrbody needs an assault rifle that hadn't even been invented yet cause what they wrote 3 centuries ago should apply to all USA citizens till the end of time. Cause 2nd amendment boy!!!

People owned canons....

[BrunswickDawg]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/arlington/2017/05/03/two-people-killed-third-wounded-arlington-restaurant-shooting-reports-say

Technically, that wasn't a mass shooting. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that he probably kept others from being harmed. However, it's not the type of "public assembly" situations we have been discussing - large volumes of people, such as a sporting event or concert, or just a school in general.

[starkvegasdawg]

You brought it up as an example of how concealed carry would have helped prevent a mass shooting. I want to hear how you would have been able to do anything from 1000 feet away with your little concealable pistol. I have one pistol, a Beretta 92 9mm. That's one of the most stable pistols out there. I'm pretty decent with it out to 20 yrds or so. Beyond that it gets chancy for me. I will acknowledge I'm not the greatest shot in the world but pretty much anyone would need a HUGE amount of luck to hit what they were aiming at with that nice heavy, stable Beretta at the distance the that shooter was operating at. You would just as likely hit someone in the next room.

But if that shooter was in the crowd five feet from you...say like the Ft. Hood attack or Pulse Nightclub in Orlando or Sandy Hook...then your 9mm could have made a world of difference.

[Dawg61]

People owned canons....

I'd like to see them carry a cannon into DWS. I'd buy extra popcorn just to watch them get it all the way to their seat.

[BrunswickDawg]

But in 1792 our forefathers had the ability to see into the future of over 230 years and they knew that everrrrrrbody needs an assault rifle that hadn't even been invented yet cause what they wrote 3 centuries ago should apply to all USA citizens till the end of time. Cause 2nd amendment boy!!!

Don't you know we are supposed to be strict constitutionalists in this discussion and believe that the Founders were anointed by God to write those exact words that are 100 % applicable for ever? Get with program mane!

[BrunswickDawg]

I'd like to see them carry a cannon into DWS. I'd buy extra popcorn just to watch them get it all the way to their seat.

I miss the cannon in DWS. Always though that would be fun weekend duty for the ROTC.

[Liverpooldawg]

Again... not the point. You can not protect 65k people. It is impossible.

And you are with a concealable pistol I guess. If you pulled it in that situation the most likely result is YOU would be shot by police.

[Coach007]

Technically, that wasn't a mass shooting. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that he probably kept others from being harmed. However, it's not the type of "public assembly" situations we have been discussing - large volumes of people, such as a sporting event or concert, or just a school in general.

Right.. it wasnt a mass shooting because a c.c stopped it. Now had he not stopped before it got to that point, you would have said it doesn't work.

Fact, police stated thats what it would have been.

[Coach007]

I'd like to see them carry a cannon into DWS. I'd buy extra popcorn just to watch them get it all the way to their seat.

Stop changing subjects. You stated the founding fathers did not know that people would have powerful weapons. My point was they most certainly did... private citizens owned cannons.

[Dawg61]

Right.. it wasnt a mass shooting because a c.c stopped it. Now had he not stopped before it got to that point, you would have said it doesn't work.

Fact, police stated thats what it would have been.

Just curious on a typical 24 hour day what percentage of it do you have a gun within 5 feet of your body? Do you carry a gun with you at all times every day?

[Dawg61]

Stop changing subjects. You stated the founding fathers did not know that people would have powerful weapons. My point was they most certainly did... private citizens owned cannons.

Whose changing subjects? I didn't bring up cannons you did. Cannons don't apply as "concealed carry" weapons do they? Can't conceal them and you can't carry them so brining up cannons that less than 1% of the population owned is well stupid.

[Coach007]

And you are with a concealable pistol I guess. If you pulled it in that situation the most likely result is YOU would be shot by police.

That's MY choice. Not yours. There are not enough police in all of starkville to protect all of starkville and people being shot.... let alone enough to to cover all of starkville and a game with an extra 65!

Can the guard every square foot of that stadium? No

You know that. This is 5he same concept as Chicago. Remove the guns from everybody, but a person who is intent on harming people.

[Coach007]

Whose changing subjects? I didn't bring up cannons you did. Cannons don't apply as "concealed carry" weapons do they? Can't conceal them and you can't carry them so brining up cannons that less than 1% of the population owned is well stupid.

No... You suggested that the Founding Fathers had no idea about powerful weapons and now are trying to apply that to bringing those into a stadium.

The fact is the FFs knew about powerful weapons and knew that weaponry improves. Yet they still wrote it without limitations. Private citizens owned cannons.... People owned more powerful guns through out our history. That's a separate point than CC a weapon into a sports venue.

And you know it.

[Dawg61]

No... You suggested that the Founding Fathers had no idea about powerful weapons and now are trying to apply that to bringing those into a stadium.

The fact is the FFs knew about powerful weapons and knew that weaponry improves. Yet they still wrote it without limitations. Private citizens owned cannons.... People owned more powerful guns through out our history. That's a separate point than CC a weapon into a sports venue.

And you know it.

Your pistol is more common use dangerous than any weapon they had in 1790. They left the 2nd amendment vague because they expected current man to be able to adjust it as weapons became more advanced. If they had knowledge of what future weapons would become they would of invented it themselves and used it or became the richest person in colonial times selling it.

[Coach007]

In 2007, A V Tech student shot and killed 33 people and wounded about 20. Where was the campus protection? Where were the police? V Tech had a fire arm ban.

2 years prior, a lawful student was dismissed for concealed carry.

In 2006, the state wanted to pass a law much like we did in 2011.... V Tech fought it and the following year 50 people did not have the option to use their constitutional right to carry..... all dead. 20 others injured.

Closer to home....2012... a MSU student was shot to death on campus. The 3 shooters were not students.

[Jack Lambert]

I wonder how many drunk, charged up state fan has killed someone with a cow bell?

[Dawgology]

Large crowd was shot up not long ago... the guy didnt have anybody shooting back at him.

Nobody went to that concert thinking they were not safe.

This is EXACTLY what Im talking about. Some dumbass with a gun would have decided to start firing BACK at a hotel full of people.....Jesus Christ....

[BrunswickDawg]

No... You suggested that the Founding Fathers had no idea about powerful weapons and now are trying to apply that to bringing those into a stadium.

The fact is the FFs knew about powerful weapons and knew that weaponry improves. Yet they still wrote it without limitations. Private citizens owned cannons.... People owned more powerful guns through out our history. That's a separate point than CC a weapon into a sports venue.

And you know it.

If only we knew what the words ?well regulated? meant, we might be able to debunk this statement....

[BrunswickDawg]

I wonder how many drunk, charged up state fan has killed someone with a cow bell?
You can have my Cowbell when you pry it from my cold, dead, hand.

[Dawgology]

Just curious on a typical 24 hour day what percentage of it do you have a gun within 5 feet of your body? Do you carry a gun with you at all times every day?

I do. I have a gun on me all day almost every day....I believe putting guns in a crowded stadium is a bad idea to the point of really really stupid. I'm fune with enhanced carry being allowed on campus and other places as well...I just think a college football stadium, bar, or concert is a bad idea.

[Dawgology]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/arlington/2017/05/03/two-people-killed-third-wounded-arlington-restaurant-shooting-reports-say

http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=10141

The is the most common outcome and it happened here...in Mississippi...in Columbus...

[Tbonewannabe]

In 2007, A V Tech student shot and killed 33 people and wounded about 20. Where was the campus protection? Where were the police? V Tech had a fire arm ban.

2 years prior, a lawful student was dismissed for concealed carry.

In 2006, the state wanted to pass a law much like we did in 2011.... V Tech fought it and the following year 50 people did not have the option to use their constitutional right to carry..... all dead. 20 others injured.

Closer to home....2012... a MSU student was shot to death on campus. The 3 shooters were not students.

I am all for concealed carry if it meant eliminating all auto and semiautomatic weapons. If everyone only has 3 to 6 shots then there probably aren't mass shootings. If everyone has semiautomatic weapons then one shooter can still kill a lot of people. Unfortunately weapon manufacturers like making money more than the chance at saving people's lives.

[BeardoMSU]

http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=10141

The is the most common outcome and it happened here...in Mississippi...in Columbus...

Yep. Good post. Expect another deflection from 007, though...

[WinningIsRelentless]

More mass shootings have be stopped by guys with balls charging and isolating the subject than they have with a conceal carry. In fact a true life movie came out today about it.

I'm all for guns but large confined space crowds aren't the place for them.

[Coach007]

I wonder how many drunk, charged up state fan has killed someone with a cow bell?

We have examples all over this nation of people not ALLOWED to carry getting shot at sporting events. It happened in the parking lot of the Dallas Cowboys stadium. Busch Stadium.... Nat Park.... Nissan Stadium (TSU Home coming).. Spartan Stadium... Camping world stadium... etc..

[drunkernhelldawg]

It was fun to write it, but I'd better not post it.

[Dawg61]

It was fun to write it, but I'd better not post it.

Post it it's why we are all here

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0Exc5fp8Y3mD6CK4/giphy.gif

[BeardoMSU]

Post it it's why we are all here

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0Exc5fp8Y3mD6CK4/giphy.gif

Lol. Good one.

Plenty of GB2 gifs applicable to this thread...

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SevereBelatedAsiantrumpetfish-max-1mb.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT8qBpuGXooJcGJseQ/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT8qBkbC8CSAr3KbTy/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/26gsblhQOYbfn7Xck/source.gif

And reading some of this thread is like...
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT8qBeueSfGaLcX6us/giphy.gif

Only after to feel like...
http://i.imgur.com/L7ThP8d.jpg

[Commercecomet24]

Hey Beardo, you got some Terminator meme or gif on you? Cause this thread is like a terminator, you can't kill it and it won't die.

[BeardoMSU]

Hey Beardo, you got some Terminator meme or gif on you? Cause this thread is like a terminator, you can't kill it and it won't die.

You know it.

https://media.giphy.com/media/f7tYXicAGamR2/giphy.gif

[Commercecomet24]

You know it.

https://media.giphy.com/media/f7tYXicAGamR2/giphy.gif

Dang, man, I knew you wouldn't let me down! Awesome!

Rep Given!

[BrunswickDawg]

Can I take quick time out and thank the mods for letting this topic go on. In light of the criticism of political threads earlier this week, y?all could have yanked it at any moment.

Also - good job to the posters about a) not getting personal; and b) not responding with the typical ?you?re a stupid libtard? rebuttals. Thanks for not turning the thread into a total shitshow.

[Dawg61]

Cause this thread is like a terminator, you can't kill it and it won't die.

https://media.giphy.com/media/YoB1eEFB6FZ1m/giphy.gif

[Commercecomet24]

https://media.giphy.com/media/YoB1eEFB6FZ1m/giphy.gif

Not bad!

[starkvegasdawg]

Can I take quick time out and thank the mods for letting this topic go on. In light of the criticism of political threads earlier this week, y?all could have yanked it at any moment.

Also - good job to the posters about a) not getting personal; and b) not responding with the typical ?you?re a stupid libtard? rebuttals. Thanks for not turning the thread into a total shitshow.

Second. This could have easily turned political so kudos to all for not doing that.

[starkvegasdawg]

Hey Beardo, you got some Terminator meme or gif on you? Cause this thread is like a terminator, you can't kill it and it won't die.

This thread is the new T-1000 model.

[Commercecomet24]

This thread is the new T-1000 model.

LOL Right on!

I gotta say I thought this one was headed for the political board but its actually been quite civil. It's good to look at all angles of discussion on a topic. Only way you can understand others and grow as a human being.

[Srt201]

LOL Right on!

I gotta say I thought this one was headed for the political board but its actually been quite civil. It's good to look at all angles of discussion on a topic. Only way you can understand others and grow as a human being.

It’s been a good discussion. And I believe my views of gun control is kind of complicated itself. I’d like to carry on campus but the stadium and associated other athletic facilities a lot can go wrong.

As for history please look up the Battle of Athens (TN) 1946. It’s a shame it hasn’t gotten more publicity especially with everything going today.

[Commercecomet24]

It’s been a good discussion. And I believe my views of gun control is kind of complicated itself. I’d like to carry on campus but the stadium and associated other athletic facilities a lot can go wrong.

As for history please look up the Battle of Athens (TN) 1946. It’s a shame it hasn’t gotten more publicity especially with everything going today.

It has been a good discussion. I'm with you, its complicated for me as well and I see both sides of this issue. I'd like to carry on campus but I think way to much could go wrong in the stadium or associated events like that. I just have a problem with the SEC and NCAA advising anybody on anything when they are as corrupt and uncaring about the member institutions as they are. The only thing they care about is their bottom line.

There are a lot of good and intelligent people on this board, and a lot of good opinions.

I'm a history buff so I will look up the Battle of Athens. I actually go to Athens about every 3 months on business.

[BrunswickDawg]

It has been a good discussion. I'm with you, its complicated for me as well and I see both sides of this issue. I'd like to carry on campus but I think way to much could go wrong in the stadium or associated events like that. I just have a problem with the SEC and NCAA advising anybody on anything when they are as corrupt and uncaring about the member institutions as they are. The only thing they care about is their bottom line.

There are a lot of good and intelligent people on this board, and a lot of good opinions.

I'm a history buff so I will look up the Battle of Athens. I actually go to Athens about every 3 months on business.

In an ideal world, they wouldn?t have too - but our politics has gotten to the point that the opinion of organizations with money carry far more weight then the citizens. ALEC, the NRA, the Koch brothers and the like are the force behind this type of legislation - not the voters. You try to talk to your representative about this topic and you?ll get patted on the head and thanked for your concern. However, the SEC?s opinion because of what their money means to Ole Miss and MSU carries weight voters don?t have any more.

[Coach007]

LOL Right on!

I gotta say I thought this one was headed for the political board but its actually been quite civil. It's good to look at all angles of discussion on a topic. Only way you can understand others and grow as a human being.

Was no reason for it to become a tear down of people.

[Coach007]

In an ideal world, they wouldn?t have too - but our politics has gotten to the point that the opinion of organizations with money carry far more weight then the citizens. ALEC, the NRA, the Koch brothers and the like are the force behind this type of legislation - not the voters. You try to talk to your representative about this topic and you?ll get patted on the head and thanked for your concern. However, the SEC?s opinion because of what their money means to Ole Miss and MSU carries weight voters don?t have any more.

100% disagree. The NRA is the result of the people fighting for their rights.

We could point out people like former Nazi George Soros who is funding movements to totally do away with gun ownership in the USA.

[BeardoMSU]

100% disagree. The NRA is the result of the people fighting for their rights.

We could point out people like former Nazi George Soros who is funding movements to totally do away with gun ownership in the USA.

The NRA loves to fear monger...that's for sure.

[starkvegasdawg]

The NRA loves to fear monger...that's for sure.

No more than the Brady Campaign and other groups.

[Commercecomet24]

Was no reason for it to become a tear down of people.

Agree completely

[Coach007]

The NRA loves to fear monger...that's for sure.

That's the go to phrase. I love my rights and that's pretty much the end of it. I know history well enough to stand up for those. Don't mistake love and demand of those rights as fear.... it's not.

[Srt201]

It has been a good discussion. I'm with you, its complicated for me as well and I see both sides of this issue. I'd like to carry on campus but I think way to much could go wrong in the stadium or associated events like that. I just have a problem with the SEC and NCAA advising anybody on anything when they are as corrupt and uncaring about the member institutions as they are. The only thing they care about is their bottom line.

There are a lot of good and intelligent people on this board, and a lot of good opinions.

I'm a history buff so I will look up the Battle of Athens. I actually go to Athens about every 3 months on business.

Message me when you’ve looked it up. I’d like to hear your view on it.

[Liverpooldawg]

The NRA loves to fear monger...that's for sure.

And so do its opponents. That one definitely works both ways. No matter which side your on, and I tend to favors the NRA, guns don't belong in stadiums except in the hands of law enforcement. Emotions are just too high.

[Liverpooldawg]

I wonder how many drunk, charged up state fan has killed someone with a cow bell?

In all honesty I've seen some that if the bell had been a gun, there would have been deaths.

[DownwardDawg]

The NRA loves to fear monger...that's for sure.

Lol
How weak.

[TUSK]

I looked at this thread when it was at page 3-6 (not certain) and I almost contributed...

So very happy that I didn't... Carry on and I'll save my comments for later:

https://nmamfqlmsh.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/1362724811_shutterstock_12893383.jpg

[RougeDawg]

Don't you know we are supposed to be strict constitutionalists in this discussion and believe that the Founders were anointed by God to write those exact words that are 100 % applicable for ever? Get with program mane!

Umm your ignorance continues to shine through.

You and most Americans don?t understand the thought processes surrounding our founding. Your posts corroborate this, but you aren?t in the monitory. That?s ok. You and most people are lazy. The fault I find is that you and others find it ok to comment on that which you know nothing. You comment as if you know what you speak of to be factually true.

In reality what you say isn?t. And you cannot understand where you went wrong. It?s ok and it?s called Bing. Try it out.

[BeardoMSU]

It?s ok and it?s called Bing. Try it out.

So you're the Good Will Hunting of internet search engines, I see, lol...I guess Brunswick's degrees in History were acquired via a raffle?

[TUSK]

http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=10141

The is the most common outcome and it happened here...in Mississippi...in Columbus...

No.



Oh, and No.....




And if I may add a bit... Shut your phuckin whore mouth....


No offense intended.

[BrunswickDawg]

Umm your ignorance continues to shine through.

You and most Americans don?t understand the thought processes surrounding our founding. Your posts corroborate this, but you aren?t in the monitory. That?s ok. You and most people are lazy. The fault I find is that you and others find it ok to comment on that which you know nothing. You comment as if you know what you speak of to be factually true.

In reality what you say isn?t. And you cannot understand where you went wrong. It?s ok and it?s called Bing. Try it out.

Your lack of an understanding of sarcasm shines through when you post your regular personal attack BS. This post wasn?t even directed at you. The framers of the constitution did not believe they were Moses being gifted a perfect document by God. The men writing the constitution had already failed at creating a national government. Obviously, they knew their works were not perfect. If they believed that, there would be no process to change said document. That?s why I make fun of strict constitutionalists. The constitution is purposefully designed as a living document. It?s actually ridiculous that it hasn?t changed more over the past 200+ years. Many of the states within our union have completely thrown out their state constitutions multiple times and started over as generational needs have dictated. Georgia has had 11, and enacted their newest one in 1982. Even Mississippi has had 4, but in true Mississippi fashion, is operating under one from 1890.

Go back to reading your Bill O?Reilly and Alec Jones ?history? books.

[AROB44]

For the strict constitutionalists....Have you ever considered that the 2nd amendment applies to the weapons in existence then? Maybe you should be restricted to muzzle loaders.

[msstate7]

For the strict constitutionalists....Have you ever considered that the 2nd amendment applies to the weapons in existence then? Maybe you should be restricted to muzzle loaders.

Cars were not in existence when the 4th amendment was passed. Guess it does not protect your vehicle.

[Bully13]

For the strict constitutionalists....Have you ever considered that the 2nd amendment applies to the weapons in existence then? Maybe you should be restricted to muzzle loaders.

there were also bombs, cannons , pistols & KY Long Rifles back then as well.

the bottom line is that the only guns that should be at a football game are those being carried by cops and other hired security folk. I realize alcohol is not sold at the games but we all know a huge amount of alcohol is consumed before and during games. alcohol and guns should not be mixed. leave your guns at home and go enjoy the game.

Our Athletic Dept can override this shit. MSU would win in court.

[AROB44]

there were also bombs, cannons , pistols & KY Long Rifles back then as well.

the bottom line is that the only guns that should be at a football game are those being carried by cops and other hired security folk. I realize alcohol is not sold at the games but we all know a huge amount of alcohol is consumed before and during games. alcohol and guns should not be mixed. leave your guns at home and go enjoy the game.

Our Athletic Dept can override this shit. MSU would win in court.

Agree 1000%

[AROB44]

Cars were not in existence when the 4th amendment was passed. Guess it does not protect your vehicle.

Touche'

[starkvegasdawg]

For the strict constitutionalists....Have you ever considered that the 2nd amendment applies to the weapons in existence then? Maybe you should be restricted to muzzle loaders.

If you can show me where it mentions muskets then I?ll agree with you. What they legalized were muskets which were the most advanced firearm in existence of the day. They were the AR-15 of the day.

[msbulldog]

I have not read many of these posts,because everybody has a opinion.
I believe in the 2nd amendment!
I own guns.
I do not see any logical reason to carry a gun to a athletic game.

[BrunswickDawg]

If you can show me where it mentions muskets then I?ll agree with you. What they legalized were muskets which were the most advanced firearm in existence of the day. They were the AR-15 of the day.

The difference is that muskets were essentially the only firearm available at the time. I know there were pistols, but they operated in essentially the same manner - muzzle load powder, wadding, and ball, prime and fire. There was no distinction between a weapon designed for hunting, or self protection, and what was used by militaries. As firearms have advanced, that distinction has changed, and for a time so did our laws.

[Bully13]

The difference is that muskets were essentially the only firearm available at the time. I know there were pistols, but they operated in essentially the same manner - muzzle load powder, wadding, and ball, prime and fire. There was no distinction between a weapon designed for hunting, or self protection, and what was used by militaries. As firearms have advanced, that distinction has changed, and for a time so did our laws.

so what law would you change or add? I think Vegas' point is valid.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Well the second amendment clearly states that we are to have guns to form a well regulated militia to protect ourselves from the government. Not to own and carry fire arms wherever we feel like. Did any gun owners on here want to start a militia when the snowflakes were taking away our country?

[BrunswickDawg]

so what law would you change or add? I think Vegas' point is valid.

I think weapons like the AR15 are designed and created for military purposes and should need additional ownership requirements - more training, background checks, liability insurance, anti-theft measures, and restrictions on carrying in public. They are the weapon of choice in mass shootings, and they should be hard to get. I think handguns should have magazine capacity limits. If you can?t hit your target in 6 or 8 shots, you shouldn?t have a gun anyway - you are doing potentially more harm than good. I think allowing silencers is a very bad idea. Those are common sense ideas that don?t infringe on your rights to own. We also need to do more for the ATF and agencies charged with enforcing gun restrictions so they have the resources to make inroads on illegal and black market sales.

[Bully13]

Well the second amendment clearly states that we are to have guns to form a well regulated militia to protect ourselves from the government. Not to own and carry fire arms wherever we feel like. Did any gun owners on here want to start a militia when the snowflakes were taking away our country?

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

AND THIS ONE IS ONE OF MY ALL TIME FAVORITES

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

[Dawg61]

My favorite part about the gun nuts is they refuse to change anything about the 2nd AMENDMENT where by definition the word amendment means to make change to something. It's a ****ing amendment dumbasses. That means in 230 years when guns have become much more lethal you make a ****ing change to the ****ing AMENDMENT.


a-mend-ment
əˈmen/mənt/Submit
noun
a minor change in a document.
a change or addition to a legal or statutory document.
"an amendment to existing bail laws"
an article added to the US Constitution.
noun: Amendment; plural noun: Amendments
"the First Amendment"

[TUSK]

I think weapons like the AR15 are designed and created for military purposes and should need additional ownership requirements - more training, background checks, liability insurance, anti-theft measures, and restrictions on carrying in public. They are the weapon of choice in mass shootings, and they should be hard to get. I think handguns should have magazine capacity limits. If you can?t hit your target in 6 or 8 shots, you shouldn?t have a gun anyway - you are doing potentially more harm than good. I think allowing silencers is a very bad idea. Those are common sense ideas that don?t infringe on your rights to own. We also need to do more for the ATF and agencies charged with enforcing gun restrictions so they have the resources to make inroads on illegal and black market sales.

Those are some ideas that require serious consideration, IMO...

However, while the AR-15 is a particularly lethal weapon, it gets a bad wrap re: its usage in "mass shootings", IMO...

[Bully13]

I think weapons like the AR15 are designed and created for military purposes and should need additional ownership requirements - more training, background checks, liability insurance, anti-theft measures, and restrictions on carrying in public. They are the weapon of choice in mass shootings, and they should be hard to get. I think handguns should have magazine capacity limits. If you can?t hit your target in 6 or 8 shots, you shouldn?t have a gun anyway - you are doing potentially more harm than good. I think allowing silencers is a very bad idea. Those are common sense ideas that don?t infringe on your rights to own. We also need to do more for the ATF and agencies charged with enforcing gun restrictions so they have the resources to make inroads on illegal and black market sales.

The only difference between an AR15 and any other semi-auto rifle is looks. it just LOOKS like a military weapon. that's why people find it appealing. you can discharge and reinsert a magazine in 2 seconds. the argument against limiting magazine capacity is if you are attacked by a gang. I should not be forced to take a training class before I buy a rifle or pistol. I should not be forced to buy insurance. anti theft measures? not sure what you're suggesting there. we already have restrictions on carrying in public. not sure why someone needs a silencer , agreed. agree about cracking down on the black market. those are the ones that murder many times more than legal guns.

[TUSK]

The only difference between an AR15 and any other semi-auto rifle is looks. it just LOOKS like a military weapon. that's why people find it appealing. you can discharge and reinsert a magazine in 2 seconds. the argument against limiting magazine capacity is if you are attacked by a gang. I should not be forced to take a training class before I buy a rifle or pistol. I should not be forced to buy insurance. anti theft measures? not sure what you're suggesting there. we already have restrictions on carrying in public. not sure why someone needs a silencer , agreed. agree about cracking down on the black market. those are the ones that murder many times more than legal guns.

It takes you 2 seconds to reload???

Work on it.*

[starkvegasdawg]

Well the second amendment clearly states that we are to have guns to form a well regulated militia to protect ourselves from the government. Not to own and carry fire arms wherever we feel like. Did any gun owners on here want to start a militia when the snowflakes were taking away our country?

The 2A says the right of the people. EVERY other instance in the Constitution when the word people was used it meant the entire civilian population. To insinuate that in this instance it means something less is dishonest at best.

[BrunswickDawg]

The only difference between an AR15 and any other semi-auto rifle is looks. it just LOOKS like a military weapon. that's why people find it appealing. you can discharge and reinsert a magazine in 2 seconds. the argument against limiting magazine capacity is if you are attacked by a gang. I should not be forced to take a training class before I buy a rifle or pistol. I should not be forced to buy insurance. anti theft measures? not sure what you're suggesting there. we already have restrictions on carrying in public. not sure why someone needs a silencer , agreed. agree about cracking down on the black market. those are the ones that murder many times more than legal guns.
Good points. AR15s may get a bad wrap, and may not be the best example, I?m sure there is a better one. As for training, at least in GA, you have to have a Hunter Safety Cetification Class before you can get a hunting license if you are under a certain age. If you require gun owner insurance, you could get $ off for safety classes like you can for Drivers Ed on your car insurance. Also, if you own weapons with higher fire capacity, I want you to be able to shoot - I don?t want some Numbnutts who can hit the broad side of a barn ?protecting? people in a live fire situation. He will injure or kill more than the bad guy. Maybe create a marksman qualification requirement? I?m also a believer in gun safes for general storage (I have no problem with a hand gun on your nightstand unless you have a toddler in the house). I think in general, most gun owners, already do most of the things that I mention

[RocketDawg]

If you can show me where it mentions muskets then I?ll agree with you. What they legalized were muskets which were the most advanced firearm in existence of the day. They were the AR-15 of the day.

Sorry Vegas, but your argument doesn't hold water. It's like comparing a Model T to a Ferrari.

Can I own an atomic bomb? Those are "arms". Any problem with fully automatic weapons being banned from the public?

[TUSK]

Good points. AR15s may get a bad wrap, and may not be the best example, I?m sure there is a better one. As for training, at least in GA, you have to have a Hunter Safety Cetification Class before you can get a hunting license if you are under a certain age. If you require gun owner insurance, you could get $ off for safety classes like you can for Drivers Ed on your car insurance. Also, if you own weapons with higher fire capacity, I want you to be able to shoot - I don?t want some Numbnutts who can hit the broad side of a barn ?protecting? people in a live fire situation. He will injure or kill more than the bad bad. Maybe create a marksman qualification requirementI?m also a believer in gun safes for general storage (I have no problem with a hand gun on your nightstand unless you have a toddler in the house). I think in general, most gun owners, already do most of the things that I mention

From time to time, I do a little bit of range coaching, zeroing, and some light weapons maintenance...

There's quite a few people that wouldn't want "on my side" in a firefight due to their abysmal level of understanding and training on the AR...

[Dawg61]

The problem with the AR-15 (besides being way too lethal for your average swinging dick to own one) is that it's become way too popular. Just search on Facebook for a bit and look at all the brainless idiots drooling and posting pics bragging on their "baby" they just bought to see it needs to be much more regulated than it currently is. You shouldn't have 1,000 jackasses in Pearl, MS bragging about their AR-15s but that's exactly what you have in current USA.

[TUSK]

The problem with the AR-15 (besides being way too lethal for your average swinging dick to own one) is that it's become way too popular. Just search on Facebook for a bit and look at all the brainless idiots drooling and posting pics bragging on their "baby" they just bought to see it needs to be much more regulated than it currently is. You shouldn't have 1,000 jackasses in Pearl, MS bragging about their AR-15s but that's exactly what you have in current USA.

Excellent point... The "fad" is a large part of the problem... that and the "types" that are attracted to the fad...

[Bully13]

Sorry Vegas, but your argument doesn't hold water. It's like comparing a Model T to a Ferrari.

Can I own an atomic bomb? Those are "arms". Any problem with fully automatic weapons being banned from the public?

it most certainly DOES hold water. nobody in their right mind wants the public to have access to certain military weapons. nobody's arguing for that. full auto rifles are no longer available to the public.

[Coach007]

I have not read many of these posts,because everybody has a opinion.
I believe in the 2nd amendment!
I own guns.
I do not see any logical reason to carry a gun to a athletic game.

Same here, but I can not bring myself to say another person should be forced to give his or her up

[Coach007]

The difference is that muskets were essentially the only firearm available at the time. I know there were pistols, but they operated in essentially the same manner - muzzle load powder, wadding, and ball, prime and fire. There was no distinction between a weapon designed for hunting, or self protection, and what was used by militaries. As firearms have advanced, that distinction has changed, and for a time so did our laws.

Nope. We had a thread on this topic. You would be amazed at what was out there. And a cannon was pretty bad arse.... still is.

[Dawg61]

Same here, but I can not bring myself to say another person should be forced to give his or her up

And that's the stance MSU was basically taking too until the SEC commissioner just demanded we don't allow guns into the stadiums or risk potential expulsion from the SEC. That means we say "yes, sir no more guns". It isn't rocket surgery. When daddy tells us no we listen and do what daddy demands. We don't play a game of chicken with daddy.

[Bully13]

The problem with the AR-15 (besides being way too lethal for your average swinging dick to own one) is that it's become way too popular. Just search on Facebook for a bit and look at all the brainless idiots drooling and posting pics bragging on their "baby" they just bought to see it needs to be much more regulated than it currently is. You shouldn't have 1,000 jackasses in Pearl, MS bragging about their AR-15s but that's exactly what you have in current USA.

stick to sports 61. you know nothing about guns. there's no difference between an AR-15 & other semi auto rifles except appearance.

https://www.policeone.com/the-tacticalist/articles/7209499-Assault-weapons-vs-sporting-weapons-Whats-the-difference/

[RocketDawg]

I suppose the proposed law is only for handguns in sporting venues, but I can't help but get a mental image of half the crowd sitting around in the bleachers with an AR15 in their hand.

[TUSK]

I suppose the proposed law is only for handguns in sporting venues, but I can't help but get a mental image of half the crowd sitting around in the bleachers with an AR15 in their hand.

I bet the officiating would get better....*

[RocketDawg]

I bet the officiating would get better....*

And the OM guy might've thought twice about breaking Fitz's ankle. **

[starkvegasdawg]

I suppose the proposed law is only for handguns in sporting venues, but I can't help but get a mental image of half the crowd sitting around in the bleachers with an AR15 in their hand.

No. It only involves enhanced concealed carry holders carrying a concealed weapon. It can. It be openly visible and rifles are not covered. Must be a pistol or revolver.

[BrunswickDawg]

I'm going to commit a message board foul and bump a week old thread, but I needed something of a vent.

When I got home from work yesterday, I flipped open FB to scroll through, and the first post was from a friend I've known since elementary school. We aren't particularly close, but I see her a couple of times a year at weddings, funerals, reunions, and we have met each others kids, spouses, etc. The post was 15 minutes old, and she was frantically reaching out to see if anyone had heard from her daughter, who is a Junior at Marjory Stoneman Douglass High School in Parkland, FL. No one had heard from her. It being a solid 2 hours after the shooting ended, I think we all knew that it looked bad. She found her around 7:00 pm in a local hospital, shot multiple times. She had already been through 1 surgery, and they were prepping her for a second. The second surgery lasted until almost midnight. There were so many wounds, the doctors could not tell how many times she had been shot. Between the wounds and the blood loss, the doctors said its an absolute miracle she is alive. One shot was thru her back, shattering her ribs, pierced her lungs and stomach. Several shots to the shoulder traveled the length of the arm and then exited, shredding one arm. Amazingly, other than a lung, no vital organs were hit, her spinal chord is intact, and they believe she will recover with time. My friend also has a son that the school who luckily escaped unharmed.

This is the 3rd person I know from my high school graduating class of 205 people that has been directly impacted by a mass shooting. Sandy Hook, the Chattanooga Marine Recruiting Office, and now this. This really hit home because I have a kid the same age. As a society, we have to start breaking down barriers and discussing this issue. What we are doing now isn't working. We are the only country in the world (first world) where this happens regularly. We are better than this.

I'm sure this may get this thread kicked to the political board - but, I'm more convinced that weapons like the AR15 should not be circulating easy enough for a 19 year old kid with noted mental issues to get a hold of a killing machine, smoke grenades, and enough ammo to make Rambo look like a wimp. We have to do better than this.

[Cooterpoot]

The kid had been looked at by the FBI and they did nothing, yet again. That kid didn't just walk in and buy an AR15 legally. Laws were broken again. Making more laws will not prevent them from being broken. I can build an AR15 in a week if I want to. So even if you ban them, I can still build them. So can anyone with access to the internet and a half decent ability.
This is another example of a mentally screwed up, troubled kid. His mother died a few months ago and that probably made it worse. It's a mental health issue, more than a gun issue. If the FBI investigates you for this crap, you should be forced to counseling at a minimum. These sick SOBs have to be identified and helped or removed from situations where they can harm others.

[Liverpooldawg]

I bet the officiating would get better....*

We just thought there was such thing as a home field advantage before.

[BeardoMSU]

It's a mental health issue, more than a gun issue.

It can't be both?....sigh....

[Cooterpoot]

It can't be both?....sigh....

Nope. We aren’t enforcing the laws. Name is h number of sick SOBs and criminals that care about the law.

[ScoobaDawg]

I'm going to commit a message board foul and bump a week old thread, but I needed something of a vent.

When I got home from work yesterday, I flipped open FB to scroll through, and the first post was from a friend I've known since elementary school. We aren't particularly close, but I see her a couple of times a year at weddings, funerals, reunions, and we have met each others kids, spouses, etc. The post was 15 minutes old, and she was frantically reaching out to see if anyone had heard from her daughter, who is a Junior at Marjory Stoneman Douglass High School in Parkland, FL. No one had heard from her. It being a solid 2 hours after the shooting ended, I think we all knew that it looked bad. She found her around 7:00 pm in a local hospital, shot multiple times. She had already been through 1 surgery, and they were prepping her for a second. The second surgery lasted until almost midnight. There were so many wounds, the doctors could not tell how many times she had been shot. Between the wounds and the blood loss, the doctors said its an absolute miracle she is alive. One shot was thru her back, shattering her ribs, pierced her lungs and stomach. Several shots to the shoulder traveled the length of the arm and then exited, shredding one arm. Amazingly, other than a lung, no vital organs were hit, her spinal chord is intact, and they believe she will recover with time. My friend also has a son that the school who luckily escaped unharmed.

This is the 3rd person I know from my high school graduating class of 205 people that has been directly impacted by a mass shooting. Sandy Hook, the Chattanooga Marine Recruiting Office, and now this. This really hit home because I have a kid the same age. As a society, we have to start breaking down barriers and discussing this issue. What we are doing now isn't working. We are the only country in the world (first world) where this happens regularly. We are better than this.

I'm sure this may get this thread kicked to the political board - but, I'm more convinced that weapons like the AR15 should not be circulating easy enough for a 19 year old kid with noted mental issues to get a hold of a killing machine, smoke grenades, and enough ammo to make Rambo look like a wimp. We have to do better than this.


I'm not kicking it to the Political Board because I WANT PEOPLE to read what you said.. But I'm locking it down.
If anyone wants to discuss yesterdays events and guns... there is a lively thread going on the political board