Super Bowl Thoughts

[Todd4State]

Yes, Joe Montana is still the GOAT.

It was awesome seeing Fletcher Cox all over the place and being talked about during the game. What a great representative for Mississippi State. I thought the Patriots did a good job on him though- but Cox did have that huge QB pressure late in the game on Brady which forced a fourth down and caused the Patriots to use a lot of clock.

Did anyone else besides me smile while watching the Eagles shred Bellicheck's defense with RPO's? I smiled not because I hate Bellicheck- but because I had visions of what our offense is going to be like next year. The Eagles also took a lot of deep shots too- and connected on a few. That also made me think about how our offense is going to look next year. It's going to be fun.

[Dawg61]

Yes, Joe Montana is still the GOAT.


Stop reading after this. You're an idiot.

[dawgday166]

Stop reading after this. You're an idiot.

LOL ... you wound up now.

[dawgday166]

Yes, Joe Montana is still the GOAT.

It was awesome seeing Fletcher Cox all over the place and being talked about during the game. What a great representative for Mississippi State. I thought the Patriots did a good job on him though- but Cox did have that huge QB pressure late in the game on Brady which forced a fourth down and caused the Patriots to use a lot of clock.

Did anyone else besides me smile while watching the Eagles shred Bellicheck's defense with RPO's? I smiled not because I hate Bellicheck- but because I had visions of what our offense is going to be like next year. The Eagles also took a lot of deep shots too- and connected on a few. That also made me think about how our offense is going to look next year. It's going to be fun.

GREAT POST Todd!! +100

[Todd4State]

GREAT POST Todd!! +100

Thank you!

And I almost forgot- by Foles winning this game I think it lessens Eli's legacy a hair.

[dawgday166]

Thank you!

And I almost forgot- by Foles winning this game I think it lessens Eli's legacy a hair.

I think you right since Eli didn't beat the GOAT.

[Noxdog]

Stop reading after this. You're an idiot.

What the true GOAT has done in this era of parity is unrivaled.

[Todd4State]

What the true GOAT has done in this era of parity is unrivaled.

Brady is the best of this era.

Montana is the best of all time.

[Dawg61]

Montana is the best of all time.

Did Montana win league MVP, take his team to the super bowl and throw for 505 yards at the age of 40? Remind me what was Montana doing at the age of 40 again??

[Skydawg1]

[QUOTE=Todd4State;881599]What a great representative for Yazoo City.

FIFY*

[K9 Avenger]

Rules changes favorable to offense have created an era where QB's can play until 40 and put up video game numbers....holding has essentially been legalized, you can't breathe on a receiver after 5 yds and can't breathe on a QB, period. Brady is a great QB but saying he's the GOAT by comparing his numbers to guys who played 20, 30, 40 years ago is nonsense....totally different game now and I'd argue the game is lesser today.

[Dawg61]

Rules changes favorable to offense have created an era where QB's can play until 40 and put up video game numbers....holding has essentially been legalized, you can't breathe on a receiver after 5 yds and can't breathe on a QB, period. Brady is a great QB but saying he's the GOAT by comparing his numbers to guys who played 20, 30, 40 years ago is nonsense....totally different game now and I'd argue the game is lesser today.

Lot of truth to this but all the other QBs playing today get these advantages too and Brady is lapping the field over all of them over and over again. Peyton, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, Roethlisberger and on and on all play with these same rules Brady plays with and Brady is so far ahead of them all he's finished the race and is drinking whiskey on the patio while they are only on mile 8.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Cox played a good game, but with the constant double team he freed up his other guys all game.

[Todd4State]

Lot of truth to this but all the other QBs playing today get these advantages too and Brady is lapping the field over all of them over and over again. Peyton, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, Roethlisberger and on and on all play with these same rules Brady plays with and Brady is so far ahead of them all he's finished the race and is drinking whiskey on the patio while they are only on mile 8.

No one is arguing that Brady isn't the best of this era. He is the best of this era. But he isn't the best of all time. I know one thing that Montana didn't do at age 40- and that's lose his third Super Bowl.

K9's point is the same as mine- you have to consider that both played in different eras. How would Montana do with today's rules? Likely a lot better. Especially with the rise of the RPO's- he would kill people if that was around in the 1980's. How would Brady do under the NFL rules of the 1980's? Probably not as well as he is now. He also wouldn't have the sophisticated diet and weight training program that he is using now. We just weren't that far along in the 1980's. I believe that Montana would have taken full advantage of that as a player had that been accessible and would have played longer had he had access to it.

Basically anyone that says that Brady is the GOAT is simply rewarding him for playing longer than Montana without regarding the actual play and skill on the field or the context of the era in which they played in. Whether they realize it or not. Through the same time span in their careers- through age 36- Montana had one more Super Bowl win and Brady was only 3-2 in the same span.

It's not any different than saying Jim Brown is the best running back of all time- I believe he is and a lot of people would probably agree with me. But I'm sure the stats would say otherwise.

[Todd4State]

Cox played a good game, but with the constant double team he freed up his other guys all game.

Pro Football Focus gave him a score of 10 which is pretty good I think for being disruptive.

[Dawg61]

No one is arguing that Brady isn't the best of this era. He is the best of this era. But he isn't the best of all time. I know one thing that Montana didn't do at age 40- and that's lose his third Super Bowl.

K9's point is the same as mine- you have to consider that both played in different eras. How would Montana do with today's rules? Likely a lot better. Especially with the rise of the RPO's- he would kill people if that was around in the 1980's. How would Brady do under the NFL rules of the 1980's? Probably not as well as he is now. He also wouldn't have the sophisticated diet and weight training program that he is using now. We just weren't that far along in the 1980's. I believe that Montana would have taken full advantage of that as a player had that been accessible and would have played longer had he had access to it.

Basically anyone that says that Brady is the GOAT is simply rewarding him for playing longer than Montana without regarding the actual play and skill on the field or the context of the era in which they played in. Whether they realize it or not. Through the same time span in their careers- through age 36- Montana had one more Super Bowl win and Brady was only 3-2 in the same span.

It's not any different than saying Jim Brown is the best running back of all time- I believe he is and a lot of people would probably agree with me. But I'm sure the stats would say otherwise.

You make lots of great point in this but when comparing whose the greatest of all time longevity has to be considered. You can't just throw out that Brady literally just won MVP 3 days ago at the age of 40 and he ain't retiring. Montana couldn't beat the Dolphins in the AFC playoffs at the age of 38 so he retired.

[msstate7]

Brady has been to twice the Super Bowls in his career as Montana

[Todd4State]

Brady has been to twice the Super Bowls in his career as Montana

He has also played about twice as long too.

[Dawg61]

He has also played about twice as long too.

And that absolutely factors in when comparing who is the greatest QB of all time. It's a huge plus for Brady and it should be. Floyd Mayweather can last longer in a boxing ring than Conor McGregor. In the first 5 rounds McGregor is the better fighter but by round 9 Mayweather is clearly the better fighter. Same thing goes for Brady. Montana was fantastic till about the age of 35. Then he fell off a cliff. Brady just won league MVP at the age of 40. Ain't much of a debate between 40 year old Brady vs 40 year old been retired for 2 years Montana. Again we are debating who is the single best QB of all-time. Brady wins by a landslide. It isn't even a debate. Now if you want a debate that Montana can win you need to say who had the greatest 4 years collectively as a QB all-time. That is one that Montana wins over Brady. Not greatest ever full career.

[Cooterpoot]

I'm sorry, but as much as I hate Brady, he's the GOAT. There's really no disputing it.

[Tbonewannabe]

He has also played about twice as long too.

He also had probably twice as many Hall of Famers on his team. I don't like Brady at all but saying Montana is hands down better than Brady is definitely letting fandom influence you. Joe is definitely up there and he proved he was great even with Kansas City but Brady is at least on par with him and most think he is better overall.

[msstate7]

He has also played about twice as long too.

16 years to 14 years. Yeah, twice as long

[Westdawg]

Fletcher was double-teamed Every single pass play until the end of the 4Th quarter......and guess what happened when they didn?t? He was all over Brady.
Take this stat - 44 QB pressures last night from Fletcher - 44!!! And was double teamed the entire time. That alone tells you how much of a game-changer he is for the Pats to scheme their entire offensive gameplan knowing they HAD to double on Fletcher.
Amazing.

[Dawg61]

Take this stat - 44 QB pressures last night from Fletcher - 44!!!

What?? That's video game cheat mode on Madden numbers. You got a link to that stat? That's insane

[BrunswickDawg]

This is an interesting thread. Both QB's played for the dominant teams of their era, for the recognized best coach in the league during that time (and 2 of the best ever). I think you have to go with Brady - primarily because of the totality of his post seasons. Making 8 Super Bowls, having a 27-10 playoff record, making the AFC Championship game 13 times in 16 seasons, all trump anyone. It is a sustained level of success that is unparalleled in the NFL - and rivals the Yankees of the Casey Stengal era (1949-1960) and the Boston Celtics of the Red Auerbach/Bill Russell era (1950-1969).

As for Montana, he is the best of his era, hands down. But, I think Bart Starr's and his 5 Titles would have something to say about people calling Montana the GOAT.

[sleepy dawg]

Stop reading after this. You're an idiot.


What the true GOAT has done in this era of parity is unrivaled.

ditto... Not sure what the rest of the post was, but I'm sure it was as ignorant as its beginning.

[Matty Dispatch]

Joe Montana had Jerry Rice, the greatest receiver of all time. Also the Patriots throw the ball on 80% of their plays so he is their entire offense.

Brady has been the Patriots QB for 16 seasons (he was the backup in 2000 and missed the entire 2008 season with injury). In those 16 seasons he has made the playoffs 15 times. He's won 5 Super bowls. Nick Foles is only the 5th non-Manning QB to beat Brady in the playoffs. If not for the Mannings beating him 5 times who knows how many Superbowls he has. Brady is 27-10 in the playoffs.

[Political Hack]

I think Brady is the GOAT, but think Rodgers is better than him right now.

[Dawgface]

Cox played a good game, but with the constant double team he freed up his other guys all game.

True. If it hadn't been for that, the Patriots would have racked up 800 yds instead 613. Ha.

[ScoobaDawg]

Fletcher was double-teamed Every single pass play until the end of the 4Th quarter......and guess what happened when they didn?t? He was all over Brady.
Take this stat - 44 QB pressures last night from Fletcher - 44!!! And was double teamed the entire time. That alone tells you how much of a game-changer he is for the Pats to scheme their entire offensive gameplan knowing they HAD to double on Fletcher.
Amazing.

You misread that....Pass rush SNAPS are not pressures. He only had 5 hurries and 1 hit on Brady. the other 36 other times he sucked up a double team and couldnt get back there.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVSoZRCXUAIdVpG.jpg

[Todd4State]

16 years to 14 years. Yeah, twice as long

So, Brady's injury and early back-up years don't count but Montana's do?

Try 16 to 12. And we all know Brady is coming back for at least two more years. And if you take out a strike shortened season and the fact that Montana spent half of 1986 on the IR- it's really more like 16 to 11 and counting. I don't think the idea of Brady playing 20 years is out of the question do you? Certainly the Patriots wouldn't have traded Garapallo if they thought Brady only had a couple of years left.

[msstate7]

So, Brady's injury and early back-up years don't count but Montana's do?

Try 16 to 12. And we all know Brady is coming back for at least two more years. And if you take out a strike shortened season and the fact that Montana spent half of 1986 on the IR- it's really more like 16 to 11 and counting. I don't think the idea of Brady playing 20 years is out of the question do you? Certainly the Patriots wouldn't have traded Garapallo if they thought Brady only had a couple of years left.

We will use your 12 years then... Brady has made the super bowl in 8/16 years = .500. Montana made the super bowl in 4/12 years = .333.

[Dawg61]

So, Brady's injury and early back-up years don't count but Montana's do?

Try 16 to 12. And we all know Brady is coming back for at least two more years. And if you take out a strike shortened season and the fact that Montana spent half of 1986 on the IR- it's really more like 16 to 11 and counting. I don't think the idea of Brady playing 20 years is out of the question do you? Certainly the Patriots wouldn't have traded Garapallo if they thought Brady only had a couple of years left.

Then you aren't arguing GOAT you're arguing who was the best QB at their peak.

[Todd4State]

He also had probably twice as many Hall of Famers on his team. I don't like Brady at all but saying Montana is hands down better than Brady is definitely letting fandom influence you. Joe is definitely up there and he proved he was great even with Kansas City but Brady is at least on par with him and most think he is better overall.

Actually, not really. Rice, Lott, and Fred Dean for now. Young was on the team but he was the back-up QB. The Patriots had Junior Seau, now Randy Moss, and Gronk will make it I'm pretty sure.

For some reason a lot of fans think that Joe showed up at the same time as Rice- but that wasn't the case. Montana actually won two Super Bowls without Rice and did it throwing to Dwight Clark and Freddie Soloman.

[msstate7]

Then you aren't arguing GOAT you're arguing who was the best QB at their peak.
Career qb rating... Brady = 97.6; Montana = 92.3

[Todd4State]

We will use your 12 years then... Brady has made the super bowl in 8/16 years = .500. Montana made the super bowl in 4/12 years = .333.

And only has one more win in the Super Bowl.

[Todd4State]

Then you aren't arguing GOAT you're arguing who was the best QB at their peak.

Isn't that the whole point?

[Dawg61]

Career qb rating... Brady = 97.6; Montana = 92.3

I know you're just quoting my comment for ammo but I am clearly in the Tom Brady is GOAT camp just to make sure nobody is confused

[Johnson85]

So, Brady's injury and early back-up years don't count but Montana's do?

Try 16 to 12. And we all know Brady is coming back for at least two more years. And if you take out a strike shortened season and the fact that Montana spent half of 1986 on the IR- it's really more like 16 to 11 and counting. I don't think the idea of Brady playing 20 years is out of the question do you? Certainly the Patriots wouldn't have traded Garapallo if they thought Brady only had a couple of years left.

We may have a lot more information when Brady does retire if the Patriots are still a good team. If Brady retires and they plug in a new qb that wins some superbowls, that will somewhat weaken Brady's argument, just like Steve Young being able to keep the 49ers going weakens Montana's argument.

[Todd4State]

Career qb rating... Brady = 97.6; Montana = 92.3

Which doesn't take into account their rushing totals- of which Montana has more yards and rushing TD's despite playing fewer years.

[msstate7]

We may have a lot more information when Brady does retire if the Patriots are still a good team. If Brady retires and they plug in a new qb that wins some superbowls, that will somewhat weaken Brady's argument, just like Steve Young being able to keep the 49ers going weakens Montana's argument.

Boom. Young actually have a better qb rating than Montana

[Dawg61]

Isn't that the whole point?

Absolutely not. Jamal Lewis would be the GOAT RB if that was the case. Corey Dillon would be top 5. To be GOAT you have to factor in the entirety of the career not just the best 4 or 5 seasons.

[Todd4State]

We may have a lot more information when Brady does retire if the Patriots are still a good team. If Brady retires and they plug in a new qb that wins some superbowls, that will somewhat weaken Brady's argument, just like Steve Young being able to keep the 49ers going weakens Montana's argument.

I agree but I also want to point out that Young and the 49ers only won the Super Bowl once after Montana left- and that was with a team that they loaded up on free agent superstars to accomplish the task.

[Todd4State]

Absolutely not. Jamal Lewis would be the GOAT RB if that was the case. Corey Dillon would be top 5. To be GOAT you have to factor in the entirety of the career not just the best 4 or 5 seasons.

I'm counting all years that they played over half of a season or more. That is what I am considering "peak"- not just best 4 or 5. Essentially what you are saying is era does matter but you just don't realize it. Which is exactly what I have been saying all along.

[Todd4State]

Boom. Young actually have a better qb rating than Montana

Which already invalidates your argument. Passer rating is heavily influenced by attempts and favors offenses that throw more- like the ones today do vs. the ones the ones back in the 80's.

[Dawg61]

I'm counting all years that they played over half of a season or more. That is what I am considering "peak"- not just best 4 or 5. Essentially what you are saying is era does matter but you just don't realize it. Which is exactly what I have been saying all along.

Montana is the 2nd best QB of all-time. That's pretty good. He ain't GOAT. There's a reason you're the only one still arguing he is.

[Commercecomet24]

I loved Joe Montana but he?s #2. Brady is the GOAT. The overall body of work, regular season, post season, statistically, longevity, it?s no contest, and Brady isn?t finished.

[IMissJack]

I'm sorry, but as much as I hate Brady, he's the GOAT. There's really no disputing it.

Imagine Brady with Rice and Taylor.