Rosebowl vs OM: Who 'won"?

[BeastMan]

I had an interesting discussion with another State fan the other day about this topic. The OM NCAA battle was essentially an OM and their media vs Rosebowl battle, especially pre-sanctions. Steve jumped out early with a flurry of jabs and some power shots. In typical Steve fashion, he starts strutting and gloating selling t-shirts and then the book hits the shelves. While he was right about the scope of the investigation and seemed to be 1 step ahead of the OM folks every step of the way, now it looks different from 10,000 feet.

Let's establish what Steve's biggest "victories" were. First and foremost, the book and the profit he made from said book. Second would be the Freeze scalp he got by discovering the escort call. There is a wide gap to get to third and I'd probably say the profits from t-shirt sales.

Let's look at OM's "victories". They essentially got off when it comes to scholarships. The NCAA had every opportunity to cripple that program for 10 years and they didn't. That's a fact. Another victory for that side of the isle is Freeze basically skated. It's pretty incredible when you look back that OM as an institution and Freeze both came out unscathed. The assistants, like Farrar, got nailed. The third win for the OM side, and it's a big one, is that no one named the booster from the 601 area code. Steve stated numerous times that he wanted to put in print who did what and name names for the historical record. Well, that booster from the 601 area code swung a big enough stick to shut everyone up, Steve included.

It's interesting because you could make a strong argument that Steve won because of how he kept the light shining but the flip-side is that if you take him at his word, all he wanted was the truth and justice to be served. Well, the truth hasn't all come out and justice wasn't a hammer,it was a tickle feather. What Steve got in all actuality was some cash from MSU fans (and I'm not hating on the hustle at all).

The last thought I want to leave with before the board discusses is that am I perhaps looking at this from too close a scope due to proximity. Are there other things that have come out of this that are ultimately good for MSU like the OM media destroying any credibility they have nationally? I don't think a national guy is ever going to put in to print anything they get from an Oxford source ever again.

[msstate7]

The 2016 class that was supposed to challenge for a playoff spot is about to be completely dissolved without ever playing in a bowl. Freeze, who beat saban twice, is gone from OM in shame, and could not even get the OC job for saban after being the latest, greatest a few years back. Steve won even though the NCAA got punked by OM

[GreenheadDawg]

Sorry but I feel like OM won. Equivalent to a cold blooded murderer seen committing the murder while holding the bloody knife in one and yelling his name and address through a bullhorn in the other hand. But he gets charged with manslaughter and serving 16 months. They basically got less than a slap on the hand.

[BeastMan]

The first 2 responses are fascinating because because that's kind of the back and forth we had. The biggest flaw in what Steve needed to "win" and ultimately write a 2nd bestselling book was the NCAA to nail them. You cannot trust anything about the NCAA.

[starkvegasdawg]

Steve was right so he won because all the bears said he was lying. Not his fault the NCAA was a nutless entity.

[Matty Dispatch]

Ultimately, knowing what the sanctions are now, it would have been much better if the NCAA could've waited until mid-Feb to release them. But still....

Their #5 class in 2016 is going to start their careers with no bowl games three straight years - some of the elite talent going to the NFL obviously never going to a bowl game.

Their 2017 and 2018 classes won't be terrible, but they aren't nearly as good as they would've been with Freeze and without a lingering NCAA investigation.

When you consider what Rosebowl did, it's pretty remarkable. When he started this venture, they were coming off a Sugar Bowl win and back-to-back Egg Bowls. Freeze had won 7, 8, 9 and 10 games in his first four years. Since then, they are 11-13, they will not go bowling at least three straight years (twice not receiving SEC bowl money), and he got their coach who'd beaten Bama twice booted in favor of a complete unknown coach.

No, Rosebowl didn't take down Ole Miss. But this is a long standing 100+ year war. He did drop a bomb on them and they are now in recovery. And for that, regardless of the content in his book, whatever money he made off the book is good compensation from MSU fans for said bomb.

[BeastMan]

Steve was right so he won because all the bears said he was lying. Not his fault the NCAA was a nutless entity.

Devil's advocate: What did being "right" get him? OM and Freeze got off while Steve endured death threats to he and his family. He definitely deserved the profit he got from books and shirts but I'd imagine that is done at this point.

[Matty Dispatch]

Devil's advocate: What did being "right" get him? OM and Freeze got off while Steve endured death threats to he and his family. He definitely deserved the profit he got from books and shirts but I'd imagine that is done at this point.

He completely restored his credibility with the MSU fanbase....which is his target demographic. Before all of this, many looked at him like a dope who worked for the Swan. He became arguably the most beloved media member we have.

[BeastMan]

Ultimately, knowing what the sanctions are now, it would have been much better if the NCAA could've waited until mid-Feb to release them. But still....

Their #5 class in 2016 is going to start their careers with no bowl games three straight years - some of the elite talent going to the NFL obviously never going to a bowl game.

Their 2017 and 2018 classes won't be terrible, but they aren't nearly as good as they would've been with Freeze and without a lingering NCAA investigation.

When you consider what Rosebowl did, it's pretty remarkable. When he started this venture, they were coming off a Sugar Bowl win and back-to-back Egg Bowls. Freeze had won 7, 8, 9 and 10 games in his first four years. Since then, they are 11-13, they will not go bowling at least three straight years (twice not receiving SEC bowl money), and he got their coach who'd beaten Bama twice booted in favor of a complete unknown coach.

No, Rosebowl didn't take down Ole Miss. But this is a long standing 100+ year war. He did drop a bomb on them and they are now in recovery. And for that, regardless of the content in his book, whatever money he made off the book is good compensation from MSU fans for said bomb.

Good post. Can't really disagree with anything in there. My counter would be that if everything you just said was the MOAB and the effects to the program ended up being as minimal as they are, does it really slow anything down grand scheme? There is still an active lawsuit against 2 MSU players, the 601 area booster has not and will never be named after Steve went through every avenue of state government to make FOIA rules be followed, and the RR booster has been reinstated by the school pending appeal. Which oh by the way could reverse the bowl ban. From 10,000 feet it looks like all the pawns suffered through this thing while the big fish suffered no recourse.

[Matty Dispatch]

Good post. Can't really disagree with anything in there. My counter would be that if everything you just said was the MOAB and the effects to the program ended up being as minimal as they are, does it really slow anything down grand scheme? There is still an active lawsuit against 2 MSU players, the 601 area booster has not and will never be named after Steve went through every avenue of state government to make FOIA rules be followed, and the RR booster has been reinstated by the school pending appeal. Which oh by the way could reverse the bowl ban. From 10,000 feet it looks like all the pawns suffered through this thing while the big fish suffered no recourse.

It was a bomb, not the mother of all bombs. I don't think anyone would say Rosebowl didn't do his absolute best to investigate this story. It wasn't even his job - he did it on the side. But he took the mantle anyway. Ultimately he was not the judge or jury. He wasn't even the prosecutor, just a lone PI being funded more or less peanuts by people who shared his own interests.

There is an argument to be made that if Rosebowl had not continually pressed the issue, then the sanctions would have been much less....because the NCAA has no spine and/or lack of ability to properly investigate. It's hard to say that Rosebowl didn't do everything within his power to bust Ole Miss. Unfortunately he only took out a few people and OM lives to fight another day, wounded but not unconscious.

[ShotgunDawg]

Rosebowl easily won.

He can’t control what the NCAA does and he has probably profited 50K or so due to it.

Freeze is gone
Barney gone
2 year bowl ban
Transfers
Disassociated boosters
Etc

Now perhaps he didn’t get the Treaty of Versailles, but he clearly won the war

[msstate7]

Would OM rather have freeze or Luke as HC? If the answer is freeze, rose bowl won

[Liverpooldawg]

Rosebowl won, and it?s not really debatable. Some of you act like they got no punishment because it wasn?t as bad as you wanted it to be. If you look at where they were vs where they are now, they got hammered. This one thing tells you all you need to know: they were bitching and moaning and wanting to run Matt Luke off from his position coach job. Now he is their head coach. They had pay him more than we are paying Moorhead too.

[Ezsoil]

Well I would say they both won.....Steve got noteriety and acclaim on the national scale along with the book ..anhos biggest win is The Freeze scalp...... OM won because they are now emboldened and know that no matter what they do, there won't be any consequences for their blatant cheating. The COI has clearly sent a clear message that it's open season on whatever tactics you want use to induce recruits.

[BeastMan]

Well I would say they both won.....Steve got noteriety and acclaim on the national scale along with the book ..anhos biggest win is The Freeze scalp...... OM won because they are now emboldened and know that no matter what they do, there won't be any consequences for their blatant cheating. The COI has clearly sent a clear message that it's open season on whatever tactics you want use to induce recruits.

This is where we pretty much left it because you can make good arguments both ways. The very end of your post is was worries me. That’s a long-term outcome much bigger than anything now.

[BeastMan]

Would OM rather have freeze or Luke as HC? If the answer is freeze, rose bowl wonw

While I get your point, it’s much more nuanced than that.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I imagine Freeze is missing that 5 million a year...he also has lost his "honor".....

[Turfdawg67]

Rosebowl won, and it?s not really debatable. Some of you act like they got no punishment because it wasn?t as bad as you wanted it to be. If you look at where they were vs where they are now, they got hammered. This one thing tells you all you need to know: they were bitching and moaning and wanting to run Matt Luke off from his position coach job. Now he is their head coach. They had pay him more than we are paying Moorhead too.

For the millionth time... YOU are about the only one that thinks OM got hammered. Don't know why you continue to argue this point when hardly NO ONE else agrees with you.

[turkish]

I thought one of the OM media member wrote an article that named the 601 booster. It was a little while after the Jackson jambalaya article outed him.

[Liverpooldawg]

For the millionth time... YOU are about the only one that thinks OM got hammered. Don't know why you continue to argue this point when hardly NO ONE else agrees with you.

Actually a lot of people agree with me. You need to listen to people other than MSU folks, esp those MSU people that post on the net. Would you rather have Matt Luke as your coach than Freeze? If you do then you are correct. If you wouldn't then I'm correct. The emotional response, and I had it as well at first, is that they got off light because it wasn't as bad as we thought it would be. When you actually look at the total picture, it hurt them bad, and it's not over for them either.

[BeastMan]

Actually a lot of people agree with me. You need to listen to people other than MSU folks, esp those MSU people that post on the net. Would you rather have Matt Luke as your coach than Freeze? If you do then you are correct. If you wouldn't then I'm correct. The emotional response, and I had it as well at first, is that they got off light because it wasn't as bad as we thought it would be. When you actually look at the total picture, it hurt them bad, and it's not over for them either.

Freeze getting fired had nothing to do with the NCAA. Had he not used state issued phones to call hookers he’d still be employed. They absolutely got off light from a sanctions standpoint. The cloud and PR was the worst part. Lastly, it’s over. No more is coming in relation to this case.

[Turfdawg67]

Freeze getting fired had nothing to do with the NCAA. Had he not used state issued phones to call hookers he?d still be employed. They absolutely got off light from a sanctions standpoint. The cloud and PR was the worst part. Lastly, it?s over. No more is coming in relation to this case.

^^^ Bingo!

[confucius say]

For the millionth time... YOU are about the only one that thinks OM got hammered. Don't know why you continue to argue this point when hardly NO ONE else agrees with you.

Maybe not hammered, but this narrative they got off, even on schollies, is ridiculous, makes us look stupid, and is contrary to every national article written on the subject (see Dennis Dodd article Thursday).

Tell you what, no bowl games for us next two years, half a recruiting class taken away, 8 transfers including KT or Fitz, and Luke/longo/mcgriff. Then tell me we got off.

Their ceiling next 3 years is 6-6, with an outside shot of a Bowless 7-5 on 2018.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Who "discovered" the phone calls to the hookers..... Rosebowl.

[confucius say]

Freeze getting fired had nothing to do with the NCAA. Had he not used state issued phones to call hookers he’d still be employed. They absolutely got off light from a sanctions standpoint. The cloud and PR was the worst part. Lastly, it’s over. No more is coming in relation to this case.

Over? Yes in the sense the penalties have come down. But the impact is nowhere close to over. They had the weakest schedule in the sec West last year (drew ky and vandy from east) and went 6-6 with the most talented roster they will have until 2021. Their goal until 2021 is 6-6.

Nobody outside of our bubble thinks the om penalties were light. Could the have been worse? Yes.

[Liverpooldawg]

Freeze getting fired had nothing to do with the NCAA. Had he not used state issued phones to call hookers he’d still be employed. They absolutely got off light from a sanctions standpoint. The cloud and PR was the worst part. Lastly, it’s over. No more is coming in relation to this case.

Do you REALLY believe that? There were quiet rumblings all along that if UM would fire Freeze the NCAA stuff wouldn't be that bad. You will never make me believe that ROSEBOWL was the first person to find those phone numbers.

[Liverpooldawg]

Over? Yes in the sense the penalties have come down. But the impact is nowhere close to over. They had the weakest schedule in the sec West last year (drew ky and vandy from east) and went 6-6 with the most talented roster they will have until 2021. Their goal until 2021 is 6-6.

Nobody outside of our bubble thinks the om penalties were light. Could the have been worse? Yes.

Exactly.

[PassInterference]

1) it?s not Steve vs OM. It is Steve vs The in-State media who ignored the biggest college football scandal in decades.

2) The only thing Steve missed on was the number of scholarships. And to be fair everybody outside or Oxford was shocked at how light OM got off. By the NCAA?s own penalty matrix, Steve had it right and the NCAA got it wrong.

[parabrave]

Steve was right so he won because all the bears said he was lying. Not his fault the NCAA was a nutless entity.

This all day

[BeastMan]

1) it?s not Steve vs OM. It is Steve vs The in-State media who ignored the biggest college football scandal in decades.

2) The only thing Steve missed on was the number of scholarships. And to be fair everybody outside or Oxford was shocked at how light OM got off. By the NCAA?s own penalty matrix, Steve had it right and the NCAA got it wrong.

1. It is Steve vs OM when you consider that they were feeding friendly media to push their agenda. Hence, why in the op i said OM and their media.

2. Steve's accuracy, which was really good, wasn't what I said. I didn't ask if he was right, because he mostly was. I asked if he won.

[coachnorm]

I have posted a concept to fellow Elite Doggers that I believe that OM had dirt on the NCAA. The dirt was used to minimize sanctions. OM did not threaten the Organization "NCAA", I believe that members were PERSONALLY threatened with actions by OM that would be PERSONALLY horrific. Concepts like monitoring PERSONAL tax evasions or monitoring marital infidelities and using this type of knowledge to PERSONALLY destroy members lives could be used as executing PERSONAL terrorism. No matter how compelling the evidence for sanctions were, NCAA members had to act in a manner to protect themselves PERSONALLY. Maybe someone brought a knife to a gun fight? How do you determine a winner? I believe that the NCAA wanted to hammer OM but the scorched earth after the fact was not worth it.

[Bothrops]

You could say it was more like a game of..Steve vs the NCAA to do their job, and the NCAA made up the rules.

[confucius say]

1. It is Steve vs OM when you consider that they were feeding friendly media to push their agenda. Hence, why in the op i said OM and their media.

2. Steve's accuracy, which was really good, wasn't what I said. I didn't ask if he was right, because he mostly was. I asked if he won.

How would a reporter ?win? other than being right in their reporting? Serious question.

[Turfdawg67]

Maybe not hammered, but this narrative they got off, even on schollies, is ridiculous, makes us look stupid, and is contrary to every national article written on the subject (see Dennis Dodd article Thursday).

Tell you what, no bowl games for us next two years, half a recruiting class taken away, 8 transfers including KT or Fitz, and Luke/longo/mcgriff. Then tell me we got off.

Their ceiling next 3 years is 6-6, with an outside shot of a Bowless 7-5 on 2018.

No, it's not ridiculous to say... but it's stupid to say 13 scholarships over 3 is harsh. They had 15 Level 1 violations. The HEADCOACH took a booster in to see recruits and said head coach got a 1 game suspension! It was a freaking slap on the wrist by a toothless NCAA COI, period. You think being a 6-6 football team is justice? They should be ULL's homecoming team after the NCAA got through with that cesspool.

Half their recruiting class taken away? Where do you get that?? You think they're only signing 12 this year? That's not how that works.

[Turfdawg67]

Do you REALLY believe that? There were quiet rumblings all along that if UM would fire Freeze the NCAA stuff wouldn't be that bad. You will never make me believe that ROSEBOWL was the first person to find those phone numbers.

Well, sorry... he and his wife were the first ones to find the numbers. Ha! OM would've fired Freeze?? For what, receiving a 1 game suspension? What a joke. By your silly logic you'd think that the honorable OM would get rid of their AD that has 3 programs on probation... but no, Bjork got a raise and new title.

[Liverpooldawg]

Well, sorry... he and his wife were the first ones to find the numbers. Ha! OM would've fired Freeze?? For what, receiving a 1 game suspension? What a joke. By your silly logic you'd think that the honorable OM would get rid of their AD that has 3 programs on probation... but no, Bjork got a raise and new title.

They were the first ones we know about. My guess is Ole Miss knew all along. They got rid of him to appease the NCAA.

[confucius say]

No, it's not ridiculous to say... but it's stupid to say 13 scholarships over 3 is harsh. They had 15 Level 1 violations. The HEADCOACH took a booster in to see recruits and said head coach got a 1 game suspension! It was a freaking slap on the wrist by a toothless NCAA COI, period. You think being a 6-6 football team is justice? They should be ULL's homecoming team after the NCAA got through with that cesspool.

Half their recruiting class taken away? Where do you get that?? You think they're only signing 12 this year? That's not how that works.

It doesn?t matter if they had 10, 15, or 20 level 1s. A case as a whole is categorized as level 1,2, or 3 against an institution, and the institution is penalized according to the matrix. You don?t get level 1 penalties for every level 1 infraction. That?s what we didn?t understand, self included, and you still don?t. The committees report states that clearly.

I didn?t say Half a recruiting class this year. I said half a recruiting class. They will lose half a recruiting class over three years. Every d1 coach in America will tell you that is a huge deal.

[Political Hack]

Steve wants money and to feed his ego. Same thing he wanted when State was under investigation. He got hits and money both times. By my account he’s winning personally and professionally at the expense of State fans, but that seems his business. And I’ll readily admit he’s good at it. Kudos are well deserved.

Unfortunately, Ole Miss skated. They sure as shit didn’t “win” anything though. Losing scholarships, past wins vacated, head coach gone, reputation tarnished with the local and national media, Mars 3 feet up their arse, and a bowl ban and money gone to boot. Should they have gotten more? Absolutely. Did they “win”? Not even close.

[Todd4State]

My thought is MSU won. At least long term. Thank Rosebowl for that? Absolutely.

The Egg Bowl win and the light sanctions are merely saving face for Ole Miss at this point. Maybe they win their appeal and maybe they don't- even if they do there is a good chance that they won't go to a bowl either way and they lost some key impact players. I think it will really surface just how bad it was in 2019 as far as on the field results are concerned.

To answer your question- Rosebowl won. He forced them to get rid of Freeze which gave Rosebowl a lot of notoriety and it helped him to make money by selling his book. I don't think people look at him as being "wrong" necessarily about the NCAA sanctions as much as it is about the NCAA just being a worthless organization.

As I sort of referenced before- the fallout for Ole Miss is just starting. They have an unqualified coach that will not succeed there and likely just had the best season of his career- highlighted by a win where his team embarrassed themselves by thugging out and a last second win over Kentucky....with players that they paid for. This year they had a few upperclassmen still from the 2013 class like Wilkens and the 2016 class had some talented players. Going forward, the 2013 guys have graduated out and a lot of the 2016 class has transferred out. And I imagine a lot of the impact players that are still around will probably declare for the NFL draft after this year. And if they lose their appeal they could see a few more guys transfer out.

But this goes a lot deeper than MSU/Ole Miss. The real damage is the fact that even though they got a slap on the wrist they will not be able to recruit nationally on the level like they did in 2013 and 2016. That's why they are trying to start to recruit locally starting in 2019. However...there are some problems. MSU has stuck to that local model for over 9 years now and isn't stopping and has made a LOT of in roads in state over that time. Ole Miss is behind in most places in Mississippi. Even worse for them, Dan Mullen left and based on the early returns I don't think they will be able to push Joe around like they did with Dan in recruiting. Plus, MSU has Hud, T-Buck, Baker, and then the off the field all-star staff highlighted by Brad Peterson, Rod Gibson, and Patrick Austin on their side.

My theory on Ole Miss's success in state recruiting during Dan's era is that they were able to get most of the offensive talent in state not because they were paying a lot of money, but because Dan and his country club just didn't put enough emphasis on recruiting those players. Interestingly enough on the defensive side where Dan typically had his better recruiters, we cleaned up on that side of the ball. Even with players that Ole Miss wanted badly and was paying- like Leo, Kobe, Chris Jones, and Jeffrey Simmons among others. If that theory is true, then MSU will probably start to dominate the state even more with Joe as the head coach if he places more emphasis on the players on the offensive side in recruiting. Add in the fact that Ole Miss is likely to not be good the next few years while we have very good seasons...that's a major problem for them.

On top of all of that, Jeremy Pruitt is obviously trying to take over Memphis. That's also not good for Ole Miss. And it looks like Byron DeVinner is wearing a lot of orange lately.

[cujo]

Steve wants money and to feed his ego. Same thing he wanted when State was under investigation. He got hits and money both times. By my account he?s winning personally and professionally at the expense of State fans, but that seems his business. And I?ll readily admit he?s good at it. Kudos are well deserved.

Unfortunately, Ole Miss skated. They sure as shit didn?t ?win? anything though. Losing scholarships, past wins vacated, head coach gone, reputation tarnished with the local and national media, Mars 3 feet up their arse, and a bowl ban and money gone to boot. Should they have gotten more? Absolutely. Did they ?win?? Not even close.

It?s been 60 days since punishments were handed out

[Todd4State]

Oh- and I forgot that they are on repeat violator status for I think five years so that is going to hurt a lot of their tactics as well.

[Political Hack]

It?s been 60 days since punishments were handed out

Not sure. They probably have to review the game logs and see who played during which games and then vacate if they had ineligible players on the field. I suspect it?ll be almos entire seasons, but given the NCAA?s lack of grit, they may just apologize and award them an extra sugar bowl title.

[Todd4State]

They were the first ones we know about. My guess is Ole Miss knew all along. They got rid of him to appease the NCAA.

If they wanted to "appease the NCAA" they would have fired him after the Sugar Bowl win.

What Ole Miss is really trying to avoid is a massive sex scandal for buying prostitutes for players. Ask Penn State and now Michigan State how that goes over with the NCAA. And neither of those two programs were being investigated before the sex scandals started. And that's why they need to be very nice to Tom Mars.

[Turfdawg67]

It doesn?t matter if they had 10, 15, or 20 level 1s. A case as a whole is categorized as level 1,2, or 3 against an institution, and the institution is penalized according to the matrix. You don?t get level 1 penalties for every level 1 infraction. That?s what we didn?t understand, self included, and you still don?t. The committees report states that clearly.

I didn?t say Half a recruiting class this year. I said half a recruiting class. They will lose half a recruiting class over three years. Every d1 coach in America will tell you that is a huge deal.

Hell... then Mullen had us on probation without the NCAA.

[Liverpooldawg]

If they wanted to "appease the NCAA" they would have fired him after the Sugar Bowl win.

What Ole Miss is really trying to avoid is a massive sex scandal for buying prostitutes for players. Ask Penn State and now Michigan State how that goes over with the NCAA. And neither of those two programs were being investigated before the sex scandals started. And that's why they need to be very nice to Tom Mars.

I agree, but they held on to him as long as they thought it was tenable. When it became obvious that it wasn't anymore, they cut him loose. It was pretty convenient that that stuff came to light when it did. I don't believe in that kind of coincidence.

[Goldendawg]

Steve wants money and to feed his ego. Same thing he wanted when State was under investigation. He got hits and money both times. By my account he?s winning personally and professionally at the expense of State fans, but that seems his business. And I?ll readily admit he?s good at it. Kudos are well deserved.

Unfortunately, Ole Miss skated. They sure as shit didn?t ?win? anything though. Losing scholarships, past wins vacated, head coach gone, reputation tarnished with the local and national media, Mars 3 feet up their arse, and a bowl ban and money gone to boot. Should they have gotten more? Absolutely. Did they ?win?? Not even close.

Have they or the NCAA published a list of the games vacated or is there somewhere on the net you can go to see such info? I have seen or heard nothing.

[Todd4State]

I agree, but they held on to him as long as they thought it was tenable. When it became obvious that it wasn't anymore, they cut him loose. It was pretty convenient that that stuff came to light when it did. I don't believe in that kind of coincidence.

They kept him because:

1. He was winning. (First Sugar Bowl is fity years!)

2. Maybe even more importantly to them- he was recruiting. And recruiting the way that they want to.

3. The whole plan all along was to lie to recruits and make them believe that they weren't being investigated and then later that they weren't going on probation. It's kind of hard to make that lie when you just immediately fire your Sugar Bowl winning coach, no? The reason that they wanted to lie was because their plan was to recruit at a high level and hope that the really good players keep them afloat through probation. That's not going to happen like they wanted to. And honestly a lot of that is because they had to get rid of Freeze. The crazy thing assuming the penalties are the same regardless of whether Freeze was still there or not- it would have worked. The thing we'll never know is what the penalties would have been had Freeze stayed on because I suspect that they would have been hit harder.

So, I think Ole Miss really wanted Freeze to stay as long as possible. I don't think they wanted to fire him at all. In fact I wouldn't be surprised at all if they bring him back to replace Luke. If they wanted to conveniently fire him- he went 5-7 with an Egg Bowl loss and had the program under investigation. That would be the more ideal and more convenient time to do it than August when fall camp is starting. They were forced to because they don't want to the FBI sniffing around Oxford because they know that being the school that bought prostitutes for football recruits is SMU level notorious. Whether they get the death penalty or not. I don't know very many parents that would send their sons to a school that was known for doing that.

[Todd4State]

Have they or the NCAA published a list of the games vacated or is there somewhere on the net you can go to see such info? I have seen or heard nothing.

I bet they quietly release it in their media guide.

[cujo]

I bet they quietly release it in their media guide.

Especially if it includes egg bowls 12,14, &15

[Bully75]

If they wanted to "appease the NCAA" they would have fired him after the Sugar Bowl win.

What Ole Miss is really trying to avoid is a massive sex scandal for buying prostitutes for players. Ask Penn State and now Michigan State how that goes over with the NCAA. And neither of those two programs were being investigated before the sex scandals started. And that's why they need to be very nice to Tom Mars.

This!!!!!!

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Ole Miss knew all along that Hugh was making the calls.... it is part of their compliance departments job to compare phone logs with phone bills....any irregularities would be vetted by compliance.

[yjnkdawg]

They were the first ones we know about. My guess is Ole Miss knew all along. They got rid of him to appease the NCAA.


Possibly, but I think Mars let Lee Tyner, the Birmingham Law Firm, or both, know that this was just the beginning and things could get a lot worse for OM. I highly doubt the powers to be of the OM football program would have fired Freeze unless it got down to a have to situation. The powers to be are not those two other guys who sat at the table with Freeze or sat at the table by themselves when Freeze was not there.

[Liverpooldawg]

Ole Miss knew all along that Hugh was making the calls.... it is part of their compliance departments job to compare phone logs with phone bills....any irregularities would be vetted by compliance.

Exactly. Those calls had to have been known about. They didn’t care, till they did.

[Activated Alpha]

I don't believe for one second we will see anything about the prostitutes for recruits scandal or that the NCAA will do anything about it

[yjnkdawg]

I think OM won because when you read all of the documented evidence concerning the vast patterns of violations over a period of time, that OM had, and with the new matrix in place, they could have been basically buried. It appears the NCAA did their work, but the COI dropped the ball and let OM slide ( or in some of our thinking anyway). If so, could somebody have gotten to the COI? Could it have been the SEC Office intervened, or some very influential person or persons in the OM family? That Bama law firm is one of the best in dealing with matters such as this. That book is closed as was already mentioned so we will never know why the COI made the decision they did.

[yjnkdawg]

I don't believe for one second we will see anything about the prostitutes for recruits scandal or that the NCAA will do anything about it


If Freeze hadn't been fired, I bet we would have, but I don't think it would been Bjork releasing the information. I think it is a good thing for OM that Nutt and Mars were finally satisfied.

[spbdawg]

#

[spbdawg]

#

[BeastMan]

I think OM won because when you read all of the documented evidence concerning the vast patterns of violations over a period of time, that OM had, and with the new matrix in place, they could have been basically buried. It appears the NCAA did their work, but the COI dropped the ball and let OM slide ( or in some of our thinking anyway). If so, could somebody have gotten to the COI? Could it have been the SEC Office intervened, or some very influential person or persons in the OM family? That Bama law firm is one of the best in dealing with matters such as this. That book is closed as was already mentioned so we will never know why the COI made the decision they did.

This is a strong argument

[yjnkdawg]

Why not? All Tom Mars did was make a public records request...something any American can do. The statute of limitations on these offenses has a very long fuse.


Well for one thing, Mars knew what he was doing and then he also brought a specialist in who is an expert in this type of investigative work. They were able to go deeper, in what lies in those phone records, than the normal person. I would imagine. But anyway, who is going to pursue this? The NCAA apparently could care less, or they are being told to care less?

[Coach34]

Elitedawgs won

We broke the investigation before anybody- including Pat Forde
We maintained Freeze would be fired as coach
We maintained probation and a bowl ban was happening
Because of the OM investigation our board grew from 100K views the 1st month to 3MM per month now
1/3 of our viewers are OM fans

Winnahhhhh

[state66]

Steve found the number to the escort service that lead to Hugh Freeze resignation. For that he will forever be a legend in my book.

[dawgoneyall]

Fritz lost.

As disgusting a low life as Hugh Freeze is I can't say I saw a game where I thought he has deliberately had his team to attempt to take out another player.

He was replace with a bigger low life who obviously instructed his team to take out a player/players. This is the ultimate low life.

[dawgoneyall]

Fritz lost.

As disgusting a low life as Hugh Freeze is I can't say I saw a game where I thought he has deliberately had his team to attempt to take out another player.

He was replace with a bigger low life who obviously instructed his team to take out a player/players. This is the ultimate low life.

[BeastMan]

Elitedawgs won

We broke the investigation before anybody- including Pat Forde
We maintained Freeze would be fired as coach
We maintained probation and a bowl ban was happening
Because of the OM investigation our board grew from 100K views the 1st month to 3MM per month now
1/3 of our viewers are OM fans

Winnahhhhh


http://img75.laughinggif.com/pic/HTTP2wueWltZy5jb20vb3MvMjUxLzIwMTMvMDIvMTkvY3ViYWd vb2Rpbmdvc2Nhci1naWZfMjM0MjM1LmdpZgloglog.gif

[Political Hack]

Elitedawgs won

We broke the investigation before anybody- including Pat Forde
We maintained Freeze would be fired as coach
We maintained probation and a bowl ban was happening
Because of the OM investigation our board grew from 100K views the 1st month to 3MM per month now
1/3 of our viewers are OM fans

Winnahhhhh

Fromt row seats for a slow occurring train wreck are hard to come by.

[MadDawg]

Let's see....

Steve
Was right about investigation
Named majority of infractions
OM lost their head coach
Sold a bunch of books

OM
Lost fewer schollys than expected
Received a single year bowl ban
Won the Egg Bowl
Kept The Network in place
Named 2 MSU players in defiance of confidentiality rules and publicly vilified them and called them liars
Sued same 2 MSU players


I don't know. Maybe a draw?

[Coach34]

OM received a 2 year bowl ban

[Liverpooldawg]

They also lost a lot of on campus visits. That hurts.

[Dawgology]

I think OM won because when you read all of the documented evidence concerning the vast patterns of violations over a period of time, that OM had, and with the new matrix in place, they could have been basically buried. It appears the NCAA did their work, but the COI dropped the ball and let OM slide ( or in some of our thinking anyway). If so, could somebody have gotten to the COI? Could it have been the SEC Office intervened, or some very influential person or persons in the OM family? That Bama law firm is one of the best in dealing with matters such as this. That book is closed as was already mentioned so we will never know why the COI made the decision they did.

I've been saying this for a month. The investigators were as suprised as we all were when the verdict and punishments were handed out.

[Dawgology]

They also lost a lot of on campus visits. That hurts.

They lost "official" vists but a recruit can come "on there own" and vi$it the campu$ anytime they want.

[Coach34]

They lost "official" vists but a recruit can come "on there own" and vi$it the campu$ anytime they want.

No- they lost unofficial visits- meaning they cant just come to Oxford anytime they want. The sanctions say 1 UNofficial visit per recruit I do believe

[MadDawg]

OM received a 2 year bowl ban

And they are appealing the second year and until something in this thing goes against them, I'm going to go ahead and assume they get it reversed.

[Liverpooldawg]

They lost "official" vists but a recruit can come "on there own" and vi$it the campu$ anytime they want.

WRONG. They lost unofficial visits.

[Coach34]

And they are appealing the second year and until something in this thing goes against them, I'm going to go ahead and assume they get it reversed.

until it gets reversed- they are not bowl eligible in 2018

[Turfdawg67]

They also lost a lot of on campus visits. That hurts.


No- they lost unofficial visits- meaning they cant just come to Oxford anytime they want. The sanctions say 1 UNofficial visit per recruit I do believe

That would probably be a big deal to a school that follows the rules... they don't. Newsflash! They aren't supposed to pay players either. (rolling eye emoji)

[MadDawg]

While some on here are trying to convince us how bad ole miss got hammered, there is a thread on the other board asking if THIS YEAR'S recruiting class will be ranked higher than theirs. It's not right now, btw.

[msstate7]

Delete

[Jarius]

If getting a 2 year bowl ban, double digit scholarship losses, getting our head coach fired for screwing whores, and being the laughing stock of college football is winning, I'd rather not win.

[thf24]

While some on here are trying to convince us how bad ole miss got hammered, there is a thread on the other board asking if THIS YEAR'S recruiting class will be ranked higher than theirs. It's not right now, btw.

Don't worry about their recruiting ranking. Just like last year, at this point in the cycle they are more concerned with inflating their ranking than bringing in quality players, and it will show in 2019-2020. Also, I'm going to wait and see if Matt Corral makes it to the opener before considering their ranking final.

That being said, it will be very disappointing if we end up outside the top 25, regardless of what OM does.

[Political Hack]

While some on here are trying to convince us how bad ole miss got hammered, there is a thread on the other board asking if THIS YEAR'S recruiting class will be ranked higher than theirs. It's not right now, btw.

I’ll celebrate that ranking about as much as I did this years. Recruiting rankings are damn near useless outside the top 4-5 classes. They shouldn’t even rank them individually. It should be grades, like how they do the nfl draft. Fill needs? Fill open spots? Fit your system? Etc...

[Tbonewannabe]

This is where we pretty much left it because you can make good arguments both ways. The very end of your post is was worries me. That?s a long-term outcome much bigger than anything now.

They had a player confess on national tv that he received payments from the coaching staff and that wasn't even considered in their punishment. UM can hand bookbags full of cash to recruits at NCAA headquarters and just claim they are paying back a loan the recruit gave them. The NCAA obviously don't employ accountants to track the money because it would be really obvious really quickly that UM signees are getting free cars and cash. Hell, the NCAA obviously doesn't even look at twitter. I could probably build a case stronger than what USCw was hit with just following what is on message boards.

[Dawgology]

WRONG. They lost unofficial visits.

I'm sure the NCAA will be ON TOP of monitoring those unofficial visits. Let's watch and see!!

[Dawgology]

If getting a 2 year bowl ban, double digit scholarship losses, getting our head coach fired for screwing whores, and being the laughing stock of college football is winning, I'd rather not win.

If we had 15 Level 1 violations levied against us I would take that as a ****ing win all...day...long....

[Dawgology]

I’ll celebrate that ranking about as much as I did this years. Recruiting rankings are damn near useless outside the top 4-5 classes. They shouldn’t even rank them individually. It should be grades, like how they do the nfl draft. Fill needs? Fill open spots? Fit your system? Etc...

SO you are saying landing a top 6-15 class 5 years in a row would still have us finishing about the same every year as we do now?

[LC Dawg]

I'm sure the NCAA will be ON TOP of monitoring those unofficial visits. Let's watch and see!!

The unofficial visits are a big deal. The NCAA doesn't have to monitor it. In today's world of social media there is no way a recruit is going to spend the weekend in Oxford and no one know about it unless they keep them locked in a closet with no phone.
I don't think you can say who won between Steve and OM until the appeal is over and see what happens with the 2nd year bowl ban and see how the unofficial visits hurts OM. I would say once they have to abide by the unofficial visit ruling its going to really affect their recruiting. Hopefully it helps us a lot with the 2019 class in Mississippi.

[Dawgology]

The unofficial visits are a big deal. The NCAA doesn't have to monitor it. In today's world of social media there is no way a recruit is going to spend the weekend in Oxford and no one know about it unless they keep them locked in a closet with no phone.
I don't think you can say who won between Steve and OM until the appeal is over and see what happens with the 2nd year bowl ban and see how the unofficial visits hurts OM. I would say once they have to abide by the unofficial visit ruling its going to really affect their recruiting. Hopefully it helps us a lot with the 2019 class in Mississippi.

Yeah, I'm just not holding mu breath. But maybe I will be suprised.

[Tbonewannabe]

The unofficial visits are a big deal. The NCAA doesn't have to monitor it. In today's world of social media there is no way a recruit is going to spend the weekend in Oxford and no one know about it unless they keep them locked in a closet with no phone.
I don't think you can say who won between Steve and OM until the appeal is over and see what happens with the 2nd year bowl ban and see how the unofficial visits hurts OM. I would say once they have to abide by the unofficial visit ruling its going to really affect their recruiting. Hopefully it helps us a lot with the 2019 class in Mississippi.

AJ Brown's new charger he received right after signing with UM was all over twitter. If they can't find that while they are investigating UM then they aren't going to figure out they exceeded their unofficial visits.

[MadDawg]

I don't think you can say who won between Steve and OM until the appeal is over and see what happens with the 2nd year bowl ban
It will be removed.

and see how the unofficial visits hurts OM.
It won't.

I would say once they have to abide by the unofficial visit ruling its going to really affect their recruiting.
They won't.

[Todd4State]

Here's the thing that a lot of our fans miss with our recruiting and Ole Miss's recruiting the last 10 years or so and now.

DAN hurt our recruiting every bit as much as Ole Miss cheating hurt us. And I would even go as far as to say that Dan hurt us even worse than Ole Miss cheating did. Ole Miss being on probation would have helped Dan more than it would have helped Joe.

We can (and will) do better in football recruiting now that Dan is gone. How do I know that? Because Joe has hired a better staff as far as recruiting and is already making strong in roads in state and also out of state. And as I have said in the past if MSU can recruit well in baseball (yeah, I know history), men's basketball (slightly better history than football but not better recent history), and women's basketball (worse history than football)- there is ZERO reason why we can't recruit well in football. Well being defined as top 15-20. Which is coincidentally where most of Ole Miss's typical recent classes have been ranked even though they were paying off players left and right. The exceptions being 2013 and 2016 and then this year and last year which were lower.

The NCAA may not have hurt Ole Miss that bad- but Joe will. And I would be willing to wager that in every Egg Bowl loss we have had the past four-five years we would have won every single one of them had Dan been willing to actually give "relentless effort" and win just 1-2 more recruiting battles against them than keep his friends around. That's why I have been all up Hevesy's stupid looking ass the past FIVE years and it's incredible and sad to me at the same time that we let that slide for so long just to appease an average coach.