Price is out.

[Steakonastick]

Price out for the year with TJ.

[msstate7]

Wow. We are cursed

[preachermatt83]

Oh my gosh!!!!!

[ShotgunDawg]

Wes Johnson’s fault**

[msstate7]

Wes Johnson’s fault**

You love that peanut, don?t you?

[Dawg61]

Damn it Wes Johnson!!! The serial arm killer is still out there boys watch out!!!

https://res.cloudinary.com/jpress/image/fetch/ar_3:2,c_fill,f_auto/https://www.wow247.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/brad-pitt-seven-620x388.jpg

[preachermatt83]

Who will close?

[HaggardDawg]

Not saying Price is a victim of this but you?re going to see this more frequently because of the rise of daddy ball and year round travel ball.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Who will close?

Riley Self, I'd imagine. Though I don't know too much about the new guys.

I swear this staff is cursed

[ShotgunDawg]

Not saying Price is a victim of this but you?re going to see this more frequently because of the rise of daddy ball and year round travel ball.

It doesn’t surprise me with Price because he’s deader, heavier lower half guy that creates heaviness to his fastball through late backside rotation which contributes and causes arm drag and stress on the UCL legimate.

Lots of big leaguers have this skill set and movement pattern. Is what it is.

If you want less TJs, recruit athletes with live lower halves that can clear their front side and reduce stress on the arm. Problem, most of those guys go in the top 3 rounds of the draft.

[msstate7]

Who will close?

If small does not smart, he should be a candidate

[Homedawg]

Riley Self, I'd imagine. Though I don't know too much about the new guys.

I swear this staff is cursed

Self is in the shelf for now. Try again

[Bulldog1]

Price out for the year with TJ.

Ughhhh!

[msstate7]

Self is in the shelf for now. Try again

How long? Damn

Our strength is already starting to take a hit

[Commercecomet24]

What?s wrong with self? Geez awful freaking luck.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Self is in the shelf for now. Try again

Wait, what's the problem and how long is he out for? I missed this news somehow

[Bulldog1]

Self is in the shelf for now. Try again

Seriously?

[Homedawg]

How long? Damn

Our strength is already starting to take a hit

Hopefully get him back early - mid march. I said hope. Our luck that means may..... if its early march, then we are fine....

[RougeDawg]

Not saying Price is a victim of this but you?re going to see this more frequently because of the rise of daddy ball and year round travel ball.

What this guy said. The almost year round baseball never allows their arms to rest when it needs it most, during the growing years.

[Homedawg]

What this guy said. The almost year round baseball never allows their arms to rest when it needs it most, during the growing years.

If they just had you as their pitching coach, there would never be an issue....

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Bring on "Wild Thing" Denver Mcquary in to close games!

[I seen it dawg]

I’m gonna wait and see how staff shakes out before melting. I think we are gonna be sneaky.

[msstate7]

I’m gonna wait and see how staff shakes out before melting. I think we are gonna be sneaky.

These injuries suck, but I am not melting. I still think we will have a top flight staff. We cannot take more injuries though

[Homedawg]

I’m gonna wait and see how staff shakes out before melting. I think we are gonna be sneaky.

It's part of it. You know it. We will survive. Way better off this year than last....use your line

[BuckyIsAB****]

What is wrong with Self? Why do we keep getting hurt

[I seen it dawg]

I don’t think everyone quite understands what we have hired in our head baseball coach

[I seen it dawg]

It's part of it. You know it. We will survive. Way better off this year than last....use your line

Yep yep yep and yep

[Commercecomet24]

Cann is the man. He?ll get it figured out. If he won with the team he had last year he can do it with this one.

[Homedawg]

I don’t think everyone quite understands what we have hired in our head baseball coach

This^^^^

[msstate7]

I, like everyone, think we hit an absolute HR in our baseball coach. I also think we are a destination school in college baseball. Bc of this, I think we can potentially hold Cann a long time. Can anyone think of a college baseball coach that broke in to mlb coaching directly from college?

[Zildjan]

If true, tough to win in SEC without a closer.

[msstate7]

If true, tough to win in SEC without a closer.

Price earned the closing role during the OOC schedule last season. I think someone will step up again this season

[bulldogcountry1]

What makes it a little worse is that Cann made the roster cuts before Christmas, so there won't be any extra bodies to backfill the 35 man roster. I'm sure Price is on scholarship, so he would have to count, anyway.

[bulldogcountry1]

Was Price injured at the end of last season or just gassed? I know he missed some games and wasn't the same afterwards.

[Zildjan]

Hope you are right.

[Homedawg]

What makes it a little worse is that Cann made the roster cuts before Christmas, so there won't be any extra bodies to backfill the 35 man roster. I'm sure Price is on scholarship, so he would have to count, anyway.

Now this is a good point. Cann let the guys know at midterm so they could go elsewhere. Cohen protected himself for this very thing. Now as you say, if price was on scholarship it's all moot..... also I don't disagree w how either did it. Cann'a way is better for the kids though.

[bulldogcountry1]

Now this is a good point. Cann let the guys know at midterm so they could go elsewhere. Cohen protected himself for this very thing. Now as you say, if price was on scholarship it's all moot..... also I don't disagree w how either did it. Cann'a way is better for the kids though.


Yes, I agree that letting them know before the semester starts is the right way to do it.

[msstate7]

Hope you are right.

Me too haha

[Homedawg]

Yes, I agree that letting them know before the semester starts is the right way to do it.

Right way for kids for sure, best way for program, probably not. But it's the chance you take

[Commercecomet24]

Now this is a good point. Cann let the guys know at midterm so they could go elsewhere. Cohen protected himself for this very thing. Now as you say, if price was on scholarship it's all moot..... also I don't disagree w how either did it. Cann'a way is better for the kids though.

I appreciate Cann taking care of the kids that way. It?s a gamble but I appreciate him handling business this way.

[Homedawg]

I appreciate Cann taking care of the kids that way. It?s a gamble but I appreciate him handling business this way.

I agree

[diamonddawg18]

What is wrong with Self? Why do we keep getting hurt

Self had surgery during fall ball. Nothing major just some scar tissue from prior surgery. He is throwing bullpens now which are going great from what I have been told. Should be back very soon.

[Dawg61]

ICan anyone think of a college baseball coach that broke in to mlb coaching directly from college?

Why? Better chance the Lakers hire Vic Schaeffer than an MLB team hires Cann to be their manager. Put down the peyote msstate7

[bulldogcountry1]

I appreciate Cann taking care of the kids that way. It?s a gamble but I appreciate him handling business this way.


I think it's a pretty small gamble. If you keep one extra non-scholarship player into the spring, you would have to lose another non-scholarship player to even be able to put that extra guy on the roster. Then, the chances of them being a contributor is still pretty slim.

Last year killed us because we lost all those scholarship TJ guys, and we couldn't replace them, even though we had extra bodies in the fall.

[msstate7]

Why? Better chance the Lakers hire Vic Schaeffer than an MLB team hires Cann to be their manager. Put down the peyote msstate7

Just had me curious. You see college basketball and football coaches all the time make the jump, but never college baseball. If you think I am stressing about the dodgers hiring cann, you have me twisted

[Dawg61]

Just had me curious. You see college basketball and football coaches all the time make the jump, but never college baseball. If you think I am stressing about the dodgers hiring cann, you have me twisted

MLB is weird with stuff like this. Guys have to pay their dues before they get MLB managers jobs or they have to be legacy type former players to get them.

[Commercecomet24]

I think it's a pretty small gamble. If you keep one extra non-scholarship player into the spring, you would have to lose another non-scholarship player to even be able to put that extra guy on the roster. Then, the chances of them being a contributor is still pretty slim.

Last year killed us because we lost all those scholarship TJ guys, and we couldn't replace them, even though we had extra bodies in the fall.

I agree. To me this shows Cann cares about the future of all these young men. Very commendable. Just another way that he?s proving how great he really is. Awesome that we have him running our program

[HoopsDawg]

Self had surgery during fall ball. Nothing major just some scar tissue from prior surgery. He is throwing bullpens now which are going great from what I have been told. Should be back very soon.

What's the word on Ashcraft. He has closer potential if he is 100%. Heard he had some sort of lower body injury.

[Todd4State]

What's the word on Ashcraft. He has closer potential if he is 100%. Heard he had some sort of lower body injury.

It's his hip- but it's the opposite one that he hurt last year.

Self is a shoulder issue I believe.

I'm not sure who will close but Blake Smith has experience although he is coming off of an arm injury. Zach Neff a grad transfer from Austin Peay may be able to. My best guess is Cole Gordon closing. I think he takes a big step forward this year now that he is focusing on pitching only. Jacob Billingsley is a senior with a lot of experience and could possibly handle the job as well. If Denver McQuary can throw strikes, I could see him closing. Jared Leibelt I think will pitch a lot- maybe he ends up with the job.

Losing Price for the season and Self for at least the early part of the year are blows for sure- but there are other options and this isn't even close to what we had to deal with last year. Price hurt his arm in the last scrimmage we had earlier in the week.

[The Federalist Engineer]

This is just damned horrible news. We just lost a guy that was gonna throw 30 clutch innings in the SEC and post season. This could easily turn 18 SEC wins into 14. It?s that small a margin.

Now we gotta pull a closer from the magic hat or sacrifice a dynamic middle reliever like Self into closing

We now need Gordon, Ashcraft, leibelt, or sone other dude to replace an All American, sucks to have tanked in HS pitcher recruiting last season

[Homedawg]

Self should be fine, but going to be rusty going into sec. fingers crossed. Ashcroft is probably going to be a non factor.

[Homedawg]

Also remember, last year we had nobody to get us into the 5th inning past pilk, and even he had some outings that didn't get that far. Need some starters that gobble innings.

[InTheIttaBenaHotSun]

Can anyone think of a college baseball coach that broke in to mlb coaching directly from college?[/QUOTE]


Dick Howser


ETA: Not a good example of what you were asking as Dick only coached at FSU for one year but he did jump from college to MLB and managed for I think a couple of games between Yankee managers.

[Todd4State]

Can anyone think of a college baseball coach that broke in to mlb coaching directly from college?


Dick Howser


ETA: Not a good example of what you were asking as Dick only coached at FSU for one year but he did jump from college to MLB and managed for I think a couple of games between Yankee managers.[/QUOTE]

If I remember correctly Howser was on Billy Martin's staff and Steinbrenner wanted him to replace Martin- which Martin didn't like. After that Howser went to FSU because he was an alum there and then the Yankees brought him back after that after a year. I think Billy Martin went to Oakland at that time. Howser eventually went on to the Kansas City Royals and won a World Championship with them but then tragically died of a brain tumor.

Jimmy Bragan went from MSU directly to MLB with I think the Brewers in 1975 as an assistant coach. I want to say he was their third base coach. He left at about the same time Cohen left us because he was hired in the MLB offseason and we replaced Bragan with a guy named Ron Polk. My Dad was on Bragan's team and told me that the booster's weren't happy with Bragan and a lot of the players didn't like him either. Alex Grammas who played at MSU became the Brewers manager in 1976 and kind of bailed Bragan and MSU out from each other. I think a lot of the boosters at that time wanted Polk because they liked his Georgia Southern team and how they played when Polk won a regional with them in Starkville a few years earlier. Polk had actually left Georgia Southern because they weren't committed to the baseball program and he actually was an assistant at Miami when we hired him.

[Jarius]

Self is in the shelf for now. Try again

Jort wearing Gene reported yesterday that Self would be ready to go by opening day.

[preachermatt83]

France is hurt too. Dealing with arm inflammation. We've heard that a ton the last couple of years and it's never turned out well.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Self should be fine, but going to be rusty going into sec. fingers crossed. Ashcroft is probably going to be a non factor.

Non factor all year or 1st month?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

So let me see how straight I got this, I'm sure there's a ton of mistakes so please correct them for me: Plumlee is banned the whole year for peds, Rigby transferred, James won't be able to play till halfway through the year, Ashcraft won't be able to go (for how long?), Self is injured (for how long?), and Price is out the year. Now it's looking like probable weekend starter France is out. Did I miss anyone? Get the facts wrong on any of them?


PS, Is Breaux healthy? is Barlow expected to make a jump? which of the new Ps are the real deal, and which roles do they fill?

[preachermatt83]

So let me see how straight I got this, I'm sure there's a ton of mistakes so please correct them for me: Plumlee is banned the whole year for peds, Rigby transferred, James won't be able to play till halfway through the year, Ashcraft won't be able to go (for how long?), Self is injured (for how long?), and Price is out the year. Now it's looking like probable weekend starter France is out. Did I miss anyone? Get the facts wrong on any of them?

.
PS, Is Breaux healthy? is Barlow expected to make a jump? which of the new Ps are the real deal, and which roles do they fill?

I'm still confused as to why this staff is supposed to be so much deeper than last year. You add small but u lose plumblee. All the other guys from last year who were injured are still not ready as far as I can tell

[Todd4State]

I'm still confused as to why this staff is supposed to be so much deeper than last year. You add small but u lose plumblee. All the other guys from last year who were injured are still not ready as far as I can tell

Getting Small back in and of itself makes us much better. Zach Neff and Jared Leibelt are both going to help the bullpen out. If France is out we have Billingsley who is solid.

Plumlee was not a huge loss for us at all.

[Todd4State]

Non factor all year or 1st month?

Gene is saying all year.

[The Federalist Engineer]

The most MSU baseball thing that will happen is that someone will step up big time like Holder, Lindgren, or Rigby in other years. I think it could be the great role for McQuary

MQ got big time experience last year, has good stuff, and his troubles were generally control on the second cycle of hitters, opposing batting average was approximately 215

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I hope Neff and Leibelt will be great... but Price and Self were pretty good too and they're out. It sounds like Small will be great, and Billingsley may have taken a step forward, but that still leaves us in barely better shape than last year. I mean we can move Gordon and McQueary to the pen for long relief, and Smith was good in 2016, but that still leaves 5 guys (those 3 + the JuCos you mentioned) to get through 3 weekend games and a midweek, with 2/3 starters and the closer not being really proven yet.

James comes back mid season, right? Plus Self, maybe Ashcraft can get healthy, and I'm not too worried about the late season/postseason pitching. But this early season will definitely be reliant on arms we've never seen/on arms that need improving, and there's not a ton of room for error if we want to host. Just saying, we need Billingsley to improve, Small to be good, and someone to lock down the closer role or we're going to drop some extra games. A "deep" pen is one that can have a few guys miss and role out the next guy ad be fine. it doesn't seem like that's the case for us with all these injuries

[Todd4State]

I hope Neff and Leibelt will be great... but Price and Self were pretty good too and they're out. It sounds like Small will be great, and Billingsley may have taken a step forward, but that still leaves us in barely better shape than last year. I mean we can move Gordon and McQueary to the pen for long relief, and Smith was good in 2016, but that still leaves 5 guys (those 3 + the JuCos you mentioned) to get through 3 weekend games and a midweek, with 2/3 starters and the closer not being really proven yet.

James comes back mid season, right? Plus Self, maybe Ashcraft can get healthy, and I'm not too worried about the late season/postseason pitching. But this early season will definitely be reliant on arms we've never seen/on arms that need improving, and there's not a ton of room for error if we want to host. Just saying, we need Billingsley to improve, Small to be good, and someone to lock down the closer role or we're going to drop some extra games. A "deep" pen is one that can have a few guys miss and role out the next guy ad be fine. it doesn't seem like that's the case for us with all these injuries

MSU fans always err on the side of our guys not making any progress whatsoever between seasons.

We have:

Pilkington- a potential first round pick throwing during his money year.
Small- a guy that is throwing very well right now to the point where he has Saturday locked up.
Billingsley- a fifth year senior throwing on Sundays and a guy that has come up BIG for us in the past- see USM regional elimination game.
Maybe France if he's healthy- but if not that is a rotation that is much better than what we had last year when we were starting Jake Mangum at times. That rotation is light years better than what we had at any time last year.

As I said- Gordon can handle the closer role and that is what I think ends up happening. At least until Self comes back and proves that he can handle it. Self has been throwing bullpens so I think he will be back sooner than expected. Gordon pitched very well and was a guy that we pretty much asked to pitch for us almost on a volunteer basis because of our injuries and he did pretty well. He was dominant against Florida in the SEC Tournament- but I think the bullpen is his home. And now he is focused 100% on pitching. Self should be back by SEC play. I think Neff and Leibelt are better than a lot of our fans realize.

And if France is out, then we throw McQuary midweek which is a role he has done before. If France is fine, then we either have France or Billingsley throwing midweek as we thought.

I expect Breaux and James to throw in short relief roles or against SWAC teams- of which we have five on the schedule. So they will have opportunities to get back in the game.

[Political Hack]

Not saying Price is a victim of this but you?re going to see this more frequently because of the rise of daddy ball and year round travel ball.

I completely understand this position, but I really hate the excuse and ?one size fits all? proposed solution. It?s because kids are throwing harder and harder at younger ages. It?s not because they play 60 games a year. Before they had 60-70 games a year, they were playing in the sandlot every day pitching and throwing to each other. Y?all dont think Rogers Clemson threw the baseball year round? Nolan Ryan? Rob Dibble? To me the major difference is mechanics. It?s changed fundamentally and nobody is talking about it. Used to, everybody taught drop and drive pitching. Then it went to tall and fall. Tall and fall mechanics place more stress on the upper body and take work off the lower body. That?s fundamentally flawed if you?re trying to save players arms. Drop and drive is coming back, and I believe we?ll see a drop in TJ as it does.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

MSU fans always err on the side of our guys not making any progress whatsoever between seasons.

Sorry for the miscommunication, that's not what I meant. What I meant, is that we need a very high % of the returning guys to make steps forward. Can't have the pitching equivalent of Luke Alexander last year, is the point.

You mention a Pilk, we all know he's good. You mention Small and maybe he is that good, but it's hard to count on that before I've seen anything. He's probably good but that's not a lock yet. Billingsley pitched ok for a Sunday guy at the end of last year, but he still needs to improve to be reliable at chewing up innings. Neff and Leibelt maybe great, neither are proven yet and like I say we pretty much need them both to to be good just to replace Price and Self who were undoutably the best 2 guys out of the pen.

So when I say "A "deep" pen is one that can have a few guys miss and role out the next guy ad be fine. it doesn't seem like that's the case for us with all these injuries" mean just that- say Billingsley and Neff aren't good. That leaves a very very thin staff once McQuary moves to Sunday and Gordon probably moves to midweek, or however it's done. When I say we can't afford for many of these guys to be bad, I mean just that.

If the guys all pan out like you said (ad they probably will) ten I agree we'll be a very very good staff. If 2-3 aren't so good... well we simply don't have the numbers to call whoever is left "deep" or "proven"

[Todd4State]

Sorry for the miscommunication, that's not what I meant. What I meant, is that we need a very high % of the returning guys to make steps forward. Can't have the pitching equivalent of Luke Alexander last year, is the point.

You mention a Pilk, we all know he's good. You mention Small and maybe he is that good, but it's hard to count on that before I've seen anything. He's probably good but that's not a lock yet. Billingsley pitched ok for a Sunday guy at the end of last year, but he still needs to improve to be reliable at chewing up innings. Neff and Leibelt maybe great, neither are proven yet and like I say we pretty much need them both to to be good just to replace Price and Self who were undoutably the best 2 guys out of the pen.

So when I say "A "deep" pen is one that can have a few guys miss and role out the next guy ad be fine. it doesn't seem like that's the case for us with all these injuries" mean just that- say Billingsley and Neff aren't good. That leaves a very very thin staff once McQuary moves to Sunday and Gordon probably moves to midweek, or however it's done. When I say we can't afford for many of these guys to be bad, I mean just that.

If the guys all pan out like you said (ad they probably will) ten I agree we'll be a very very good staff. If 2-3 aren't so good... well we simply don't have the numbers to call whoever is left "deep" or "proven"

Every year there are always guys that don't pan out and I'm sure that will probably happen again. Some will and be productive. Regardless of who does and doesn't pan out our situation is not anywhere close to like it was last year when we were having to go to position players to pitch and play roles for us.

[Commercecomet24]

Every year there are always guys that don't pan out and I'm sure that will probably happen again. Some will and be productive. Regardless of who does and doesn't pan out our situation is not anywhere close to like it was last year when we were having to go to position players to pitch and play roles for us.

Exactly. We are in much better shape this year and it?s not even close. Cann won 40 games with basically 5 pitchers and only one real starter. What he did last year was pretty remarkable.

[Homedawg]

James pitched today. So I'd say he's ahead of schedule

[Todd4State]

James pitched today. So I'd say he's ahead of schedule

Three innings at that. On top of that it looked like Blake Smith had a good day too.

[Commercecomet24]

James pitched today. So I'd say he's ahead of schedule

That?s great news.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Not doubting Cann or pretending to know more than Henderson but....

Seeing how the sausage is made with MSU pitching staffs with late injuries, freshmen that fail to show on-campus, failed drug tests, 12th round picks that sign pro-contracts, bad hips, mystery grad transfers, and JUCO lottery tickets is the reason I was sad to see Jared Padgett go to Chipolla last spring

Heck we literally have no clue who will be the Sunday starter to start the season, Padgett was a solid prospect to walk away unless he was a Cohen-era party boy

[Todd4State]

Not doubting Cann or pretending to know more than Henderson but....

Seeing how the sausage is made with MSU pitching staffs with late injuries, freshmen that fail to show on-campus, failed drug tests, 12th round picks that sign pro-contracts, bad hips, mystery grad transfers, and JUCO lottery tickets is the reason I was sad to see Jared Padgett go to Chipolla last spring

Heck we literally have no clue who will be the Sunday starter to start the season, Padgett was a solid prospect to walk away unless he was a Cohen-era party boy

Cohen was a good coach for us and while he left the program in good shape he also left some things for Cann to clean up. You pretty much touched on most of them.

Cann's scouting connections will pay off for us big time over the next couple of years- I think that will help with a lot of the issues you are talking about. But it won't help that much in the immediate future. I can tell that our recruiting is much different under Cann- a lot more balance in the class and a lot fewer JUCO's. I'm not sure how he will fix the party boys. Or if he can.

This year could certainly be dicey at times just because of our schedule due to the new ballpark having to be constructed. We play a USM team that is going to be hungry after we knocked them out last year in their own ballpark plus it's going to be their World Series. Then we go to Texas and have to play UC Santa Barbara and follow that up by playing three solid mid majors in Houston the next week. And then there's the SEC schedule.

We actually have more of an idea of what our rotation is going to look like than a lot teams- Sunday was pretty much always going to be France or Billingsley unless someone came out of nowhere. If France can't go, it's Billingsley. Right now we have more of a question at third base than we do about our Sunday starter.

I'm not sure whether Padgett would have started or not to be honest with you. It's his third year in college and he probably just wanted to go pro after year three and felt like JUCO was the best way to do that quickly if I had to guess.

Once Cann starts to get his guys in starting next year I think we're going to start to be regulars in Omaha. Hopefully we'll be past all of the weirdness that has happened going back to Cohen becoming AD and having to hire a new coach at the end of fall ball, losing all of our pitchers to Tommy John and now building a new stadium. So, I'm just planning on riding the year out which with Cann probably means winning the Governor's Cup and a SR appearance.

But Cohen's classes a lot of times tended to be pitcher heavy or hitter heavy. It's hard to have a consistent winner that way to me because what happens is you have a year where your pitchers are young when your hitters are developed or a year where your pitching is really good but you have hitters that are immature. Ideally I think you want to get a team of mostly juniors and seniors and the only way to do that is to recruit pitching and hitting equally well in the same class year after year.

[I seen it dawg]

I don’t want to have any pitchers hurt. BUT..I’d rather now than May. This also gives an opportunity to find out if guys can be trusted to get outs and more importantly stones outs. A lot of people get into the “why are we pitching this guy?!?!” when in fact we have to have guys pitch the first month to see if they can get outs and also the first month we don’t want Pilk going 9 his first 4-5 starts. Patience rules the first 2 months, last month of practice and first month of season.

[bulldogcountry1]

Losing Price sucks, but it's not the end of the world. We have 5 or 6 guys who could fill that spot. Someone will step up and thrive in that role. I think everyone just has that "here we go again feeling", but last year was just ridiculous. We won't ever see anything like that again, though I believe 1 or 2 a year will be the new normal.