Mason decommits and commits to UPig

[klong-dog]

That blows

[ShotgunDawg]

Pretty pathetic to be losing players to Arkansas.

That program & ours are not comparable currently.

[msstate7]

Pretty pathetic to be losing players to Arkansas.

That program & ours are not comparable currently.

Our staff does not appear to be doing well at all right now. Looks like another crash and burn at the end

[ShotgunDawg]

Our staff does not appear to be doing well at all right now. Looks like another crash and burn at the end

Agree. I don't want to judge them based on how little of time they've been here, but he early results are sub-par.

FWIW, Arkansas' staff hasn't been there any longer & they are decimating our DB class

[Big4Dawg]

Different staff, same story.

[ShotgunDawg]

Different staff, same story.

Yup.

[msstate7]

Agree. I don't want to judge them based on how little of time they've been here, but he early results are sub-par.

FWIW, Arkansas' staff hasn't been there any longer & they are decimating our DB class
Not to mention our dline. OM took one, and is poised to take another. Tenn could be taking winkel to add to carvin on oline. This class is taking a hit. Tenn could potentially take 2 more dB targets in Williams and smith

[MetEdDawg]

Missing out on Mason is crashing and burning to the end? We have very little in the way of knowledgeable understanding of what crashing and burning is.

[msstate7]

Different staff, same story.

Mullen has even added 2 4*. We have added no one losing others

[msstate7]

Missing out on Mason is crashing and burning to the end? We have very little in the way of knowledgeable understanding of what crashing and burning is.

Who do we close with?

[ShotgunDawg]

Missing out on Mason is crashing and burning to the end? We have very little in the way of knowledgeable understanding of what crashing and burning is.

It's not time to argue or degrades the kid's talent. Our coaches really wanted him & we had infinitely more to sell than Arkansas.

To lose this player may never win or lose us a game, but it is concerning when considering what the future recruiting ability of this staff may be.

[bostondawg]

No need to freak out yet. Give them a full class before judging. Wait til Charles Huff gets a full year to develop relationships. And I might add that if Moorhead is having a tough time adjusting to recruiting in the south, he did a fine job with early signing day considering. And he'll get it right by next class.

[Tbonewannabe]

Does other programs besides UM do more hepping than us? We always seem to have players bought out from under us at the last minute. With the slight wrist slap that UM received open the flood gates for other programs like Ark? Before it seemed like UM, AU, and maybe UT were the main players in giving out the backpacks but now is it the wild wild west? Not saying we don't participate at all but ours seems very much confined to MSU towns. I doubt we ever get a big time player from Batesville or Oxford.

[Tbonewannabe]

Thank God for the early signing period because our recruiting has sucked after Christmas for over a decade.

[ShotgunDawg]

No need to freak out yet. Give them a full class before judging. Wait til Charles Huff gets a full year to develop relationships. And I might add that if Moorhead is having a tough time adjusting to recruiting in the south, he did a fine job with early signing day considering. And he'll get it right by next class.

Arkansas has a new staff as well.

It's a completely comparable situation.

[bulldawg28]

Lol... you guys are flipping out for np reason. I told you two weeks ago he was going to Arky and his coaching connection there. I also told you losing him isn't a big deal. He played RB the majority of his career. It wouldn't shock me if he ends up playing running back in college.

[confucius say]

Good Night at the estrogen level in this thread.

[ShotgunDawg]

Lol... you guys are flipping out for np reason. I told you two weeks ago he was going to Arky and his coaching connection there. I also told you losing him isn't a big deal. He played RB the majority of his career. It wouldn't shock me if he ends up playing running back in college.

Correct, it's really not a big deal in itself.

My bigger concern is that our new staff is losing recruiting battles to a below average program with a new staff

[MetEdDawg]

It's not time to argue or degrades the kid's talent. Our coaches really wanted him & we had infinitely more to sell than Arkansas.

To lose this player may never win or lose us a game, but it is concerning when considering what the future recruiting ability of this staff may be.

I'm not degrading his talent. But to freak out over one player right now is nuts. His has a prior relationship with Arkansas through one of his high school coaches. We want MSU guys in HS HC positions to help steer kids to MSU, but then we freak out when a kid from a different state has the same thing happen for another school? We lost Mason for the same reason. It happens.

I'm just saying we need a little perspective on the current situation. Not degrading Mason, just saying we need some perspective on the true severity of this, which at the current moment is extremely minimal. If we lose 3-4 other commits, then I would be worried. Right now I'm not.

[msstate7]

Good Night at the estrogen level in this thread.

I want to be melting for no reason. Tell me some of our remaining targets we close with. Seems we are on the outside looking in on most, if not all

[bulldawg28]

Correct, it's really not a big deal in itself.

My bigger concern is that our new staff is losing recruiting battles to a below average program with a new staff

He was going to Arky even if Mullen remained. I don't blame our coaches. You can't force kids to attend a school.

[ShotgunDawg]

I hope Bama offers him now

[confucius say]

I want to be melting for no reason. Tell me some of our remaining targets we close with. Seems we are on the outside looking in on most, if not all

This recruiting class is a win already. The all conference and nfl guys signed in December.

[TrapGame]

This recruiting class is a win already. The all conference and nfl guys signed in December.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^


And to everybody else, this:

https://target.scene7.com/is/image/Target/15627650?wid=325&hei=325&qlt=80&fmt=pjpeg

[msstate7]

This recruiting class is a win already. The all conference and nfl guys signed in December.

Someone should tell smart and urban that their work was already done at the early signing period. They have not let up once ounce. I know we are not programs on their level, and we never will be if we are satisfied with what we have

[Ari Gold]

Mother **** people
Guidry , Whop, Heath
That’s the 3 we HAD to have and we got them

I don’t give a **** what Mullen does . It’s ****ing Fla . He should get 4star players

[Liverpooldawg]

Some of y’all need to grow a pair, just saying.

[Commercecomet24]

I'm not saying this kid is or isn't gonna be a great player but he's projected as a safety and we have as many safety's on our roster as TE's. Coaching staff may have decided we didn't need another safety and he may have, after his visit decided he didn't fit in our plans. Just a thought.

[bulldawg28]

I hope Bama offers him now

He was waiting on an Auburn, LSU, or Bama offer the entire year.

[msstate7]

Some of y’all need to grow a pair, just saying.

Whatever. If it was OM that flipped mason, there would be total melt. Just bc it was ark, no concern.... we play ark every year too though. When is the last time ark flipped 2 of our guys?

[ShotgunDawg]

He was waiting on an Auburn, LSU, or Bama offer the entire year.

From the time I saw this kid's commitment video, I felt something was off. Always felt like he loved the hype more than reality

[confucius say]

Someone should tell smart and urban that their work was already done at the early signing period. They have not let up once ounce. I know we are not programs on their level, and we never will be if we are satisfied with what we have

So you?re wanting to close with a couple five stars like uga and Bama? With a new coaching staff?

We?re not closing with highly ranked guys. All of our highly ranked guys have signed. If y?all had expectations of some huge close with secret commits, that?s on y?all.

We?ll close with 3-4 3 star guys. I really don?t care if mason is one of them or not. Good luck to the kid.

[yjnkdawg]

Pretty pathetic to be losing players to Arkansas.

That program & ours are not comparable currently.


Apparently you don't know the reason he chose ARK? Maybe you need to do a little research on that?

[msstate7]

So you?re wanting to close with a couple five stars like uga and Bama? With a new coaching staff?

We?re not closing with highly ranked guys. All of our highly ranked guys have signed. If y?all had expectations of some huge close with secret commits, that?s on y?all.

We?ll close with 3-4 3 star guys. I really don?t care if mason is one of them or not. Good luck to the kid.

I wanted to close with winkel, Smith, Mason, Lovett, and McDowell.

Our class is down to 28th and dropping

[yjnkdawg]

LOL........First the sky was falling on our coaching search, then on our 2018 class, then on the assistant coaching staff, and now back to the 2018 class. What is next? Some of y'all seem to love to complain.

[yjnkdawg]

Whatever. If it was OM that flipped mason, there would be total melt. Just bc it was ark, no concern.... we play ark every year too though. When is the last time ark flipped 2 of our guys?


Apparently you don't know the reason he chose ARK, either?

[MetEdDawg]

LOL........First the sky was falling on our coaching search, then on our 2018 class, then on the assistant coaching staff, and now back to the 2018 class. What is next? Some of y'all seem to love to complain.

It's just the nature of this fan base. Missing one or two guys to a lower tier division rival is no concern on mine. The vast majority of those guys never pan out and never do anything against us.

If we finish 28th or 30th, I'm ok with that for this cycle. We got studs on offense at the skill positions ,the QB position, and a couple on the OL. If we can finish with a CB or 2, get another OL, then fill with the best available, we will finish Top 30. But what people don't realize in that is that we signed one of the most dangerous offensive groups in the conference. So we are going to be ok.

[Cooterpoot]

Screw that kid and his coach. He put on a big production for his commit to us too. What a damn fool!
I'm not worried about our recruiting right now. We've done all we can with this year and we're all over the guys for next year already.

[yjnkdawg]

It's just the nature of this fan base. Missing one or two guys to a lower tier division rival is no concern on mine. The vast majority of those guys never pan out and never do anything against us.

If we finish 28th or 30th, I'm ok with that for this cycle. We got studs on offense at the skill positions ,the QB position, and a couple on the OL. If we can finish with a CB or 2, get another OL, then fill with the best available, we will finish Top 30. But what people don't realize in that is that we signed one of the most dangerous offensive groups in the conference. So we are going to be ok.

THIS

[Commercecomet24]

It's just the nature of this fan base. Missing one or two guys to a lower tier division rival is no concern on mine. The vast majority of those guys never pan out and never do anything against us.

If we finish 28th or 30th, I'm ok with that for this cycle. We got studs on offense at the skill positions ,the QB position, and a couple on the OL. If we can finish with a CB or 2, get another OL, then fill with the best available, we will finish Top 30. But what people don't realize in that is that we signed one of the most dangerous offensive groups in the conference. So we are going to be ok.

This is the right perspective. We filled absolutely essential needs in this class. As you said another OL or 2 and CB or 2 and its gravy.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Pretty pathetic to be losing players to Arkansas.

That program & ours are not comparable currently.


Agree. I don't want to judge them based on how little of time they've been here, but he early results are sub-par.

FWIW, Arkansas' staff hasn't been there any longer & they are decimating our DB class


It's not time to argue or degrades the kid's talent. Our coaches really wanted him & we had infinitely more to sell than Arkansas.

To lose this player may never win or lose us a game, but it is concerning when considering what the future recruiting ability of this staff may be.


From the time I saw this kid's commitment video, I felt something was off. Always felt like he loved the hype more than reality

Honestly, you flip and flop more than any poster on this board....Is this done to keep threads alive or are you that emotional? It's an honest question, as I truly can't figure it out.

[ShotgunDawg]

Honestly, you flip and flop more than any poster on this board....Is this done to keep threads alive or are you that emotional? It's an honest question, as I truly can't figure it out.

Seems that I'm pretty consistent. I don't think we ever lose a game due to this but it's concerning that we are being beat out by Arkansas for some guys.

[yjnkdawg]

Seems that I'm pretty consistent. I don't think we ever lose a game due to this but it's concerning that we are being beat out by Arkansas for some guys.



Obsessed may be a more appropriate word.

[Cooterpoot]

We just put our staff together a couple weeks ago and you idiots think we can't recruit..........these kids on the fence were committed to the previous staff and some of them were already on the fence with them too. We're all over the 2019 class right now. Jomo has been on the road constantly. So has the rest of the staff. Any kid not signing early is always going to be one you might as well prepare to lose.

[ShotgunDawg]

We just put our staff together a couple weeks ago and you idiots think we can't recruit..........

So did Arkansas

[Cooterpoot]

So did Arkansas

And the kid had a coach at HS influencing and pushing him there.

[Turfdawg67]

Pretty pathetic to be losing players to Arkansas.

That program & ours are not comparable currently.

Ha! With that philosophy I guess Simmons and Lewis should be on Bams?s roster right now...

[Commercecomet24]

We just put our staff together a couple weeks ago and you idiots think we can't recruit..........these kids on the fence were committed to the previous staff and some of them were already on the fence with them too. We're all over the 2019 class right now. Jomo has been on the road constantly. So has the rest of the staff. Any kid not signing early is always going to be one you might as well prepare to lose.

THIS! JoMo has been all over the place. Hell the dude was out recruiting during the middle of the ice storm last week. Y'all just still gun shy from the way danny boy handled things in recruiting. Give this staff a chance.

[Cooterpoot]

I'd probably go ahead and try to get Williams. I haven't kept up with other guys we've backed off of but Williams or another OL would be where I'd go. We can handle losing a LB.

[WPS]

So did Arkansas

That probably helped more than hurt.

All Bielema showed was that he could only win 7 regular season games max with NFL players all over the roster

[Turfdawg67]

Honestly, you flip and flop more than any poster on this board....Is this done to keep threads alive or are you that emotional? It's an honest question, as I truly can't figure it out.

Some people can’t help it... they HAVE to complain. Instead of being happy or proud that we got Whop, Guidry, Murphy, Heath, Crumedy, Mayden, Dolla Bill, Spivey, Webb, Johnson, Robinson and Crumbest... they have to moan and whine about Mason and Carvin. Maybe a 17 year old kid prefers a different university or likes a position coach freaking more. Who cares!

[Ari Gold]

I wanted to close with winkel, Smith, Mason, Lovett, and McDowell.

Our class is down to 28th and dropping

These same recruiting experts have Dolla Bill and Murphy both 3star .. which is a crime
It?s all about perception. Again we signed the top 4 players from the state ..
Dolla bill
Heath
Murphy
Crumedy

[confucius say]

So did Arkansas

And they?d trade our class for theirs no questions asked right now. Not even debatable. What our staff did in December was really impressive. Getting whop. Holding onto Guidry and heath over Florida. Keeping mayden. Fighting off tenn for Murphy.

But no, let?s focus on and freak out over losing an out of state kid to Arkansas.

[TrapGame]

It's just the nature of this fan base. Missing one or two guys to a lower tier division rival is no concern on mine. The vast majority of those guys never pan out and never do anything against us.

If we finish 28th or 30th, I'm ok with that for this cycle. We got studs on offense at the skill positions ,the QB position, and a couple on the OL. If we can finish with a CB or 2, get another OL, then fill with the best available, we will finish Top 30. But what people don't realize in that is that we signed one of the most dangerous offensive groups in the conference. So we are going to be ok.

Now watch those studs put us in the top 10 next season and I can guaran -damn -tee you Joe ain't gonna let that opportunity slip away like Dom Mifflin did in 2014.

[Bothrops]

This kid is gonna get run ragged in Fayetteville. He is probably going to play very early there however. In any case, we seem to be the targeted program to pick off recruits from.

[confucius say]

I wanted to close with winkel, Smith, Mason, Lovett, and McDowell.

Our class is down to 28th and dropping

We all would. That would be closing on our five remaining targets. Not happening. We?re not batting a 1.000 with a new staff.

[Commercecomet24]

These same recruiting experts have Dolla Bill and Murphy both 3star .. which is a crime
It?s all about perception. Again we signed the top 4 players from the state ..
Dolla bill
Heath
Murphy
Crumedy

Yep. Dolla Bill, Murphy and Mayden should all be 4 stars. Where would that put our class rank then? Top 20 for sure. Here's another player nobody is talking about that I think is vastly underrated and that's La'damian Webb, I think the kid has potential to be a beast in Joe's offense.We got a lot of pieces we needed in this class.

[ShotgunDawg]

Ha! With that philosophy I guess Simmons and Lewis should be on Bams?s roster right now...

Surely you know the difference between home state kids.

[BHildreth3]

We're going to get who we get. There is nothing any of us can do about the final signees and the final number. Jump on board and get excited about the 2018 season. Once we start rolling up wins, we'll gain some more momentum. There are some that spend way too much time being negative and thinking that maybe bitching on here will change the outcome of the class. Shut up, wait til Signing Day and try to say something positive.

[5049]

That probably helped more than hurt.

All Bielema showed was that he could only win 7 regular season games max with NFL players all over the roster

Lets not act like Bielema drastically underachieved. I know you do not want to hear this but Arkansas is a very difficult job in the modern day landscape of college football. You have money, but not a lot of readily available talent. An SEC school that is comparable to this is Tennessee, but they have much more allure than Arkansas, and are located near many high talent areas.

Bobby Petrino has a way of lifting fans' expectations above what they should be. He did it at Louisville and he did it at Arkansas. Outside of him, Bielema did the same type thing Nutt did, which is probably closer to the mean.

Bielema was close to getting it done, just never got over the hump. 2014 and 2015 will always be what-if type seasons.

I am not big on the Chad Morris hire. Just my own personal opinion. I do like that we will recruit Texas. I still say you should have brought Malzahn home, or paid Mike Norvell.

[dawgclub99]

We should never lose out in a recruit to Arky east of the Mississippi. I will say though that this new Arky staff is a better recruiting staff than Burt had but still.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I get that we've been better than Arky lately but to act like we are just vastly superior in every way is a little far fetched. Morris is a good coach and the SEC West is going to be the best coached division in CFB outside of the Ogre. Moorhead is unproven but from all accounts and the team he has he should do very well. Arky has the same SEC money we do, good facilities and a passionate fanbase. They arent pond scum.

It does suck to lose the kid but I wish him well at Arkansas or wherever he goes. We will be ok, as its been said we can still close with an OL and a CB.

[Turfdawg67]

We should never lose out in a recruit to Arky east of the Mississippi. I will say though that this new Arky staff is a better recruiting staff than Burt had but still.

Why? To a 17 year old kid, who probably wanted his whole life to go to Alabama or Auburn, there isn’t one iota difference between State and Arkansas. It’s not like we lost him to UAB.

[Irondawg]

The kid committed to play for Ron Cooper as his position coach. Let that sink in

[Bully13]

The question now is does our staff have the ability to go pick off another schools commit that didn't sign early. We could use some counter punch right about now.

[WPS]

Lets not act like Bielema drastically underachieved. I know you do not want to hear this but Arkansas is a very difficult job in the modern day landscape of college football. You have money, but not a lot of readily available talent. An SEC school that is comparable to this is Tennessee, but they have much more allure than Arkansas, and are located near many high talent areas.


Players drafted in the last 10 years:

LSU 62
Alabama 58
Florida 56
Georgia 52
Arkansas 37

We don't have Alabama talent but he sure had a lot of talent to work with in 2014 and squandered it, he had one of the worst winning percentages in school history for a reason. We have the most players in the Super Bowl of any SEC team. Bielema was much worse than Nutt was. I guess I just don't see how having the most conference blowouts of any coach in Arkansas history in year 5 is close to getting it done.

[ShotgunDawg]

Players drafted in the last 10 years:

LSU 62
Alabama 58
Florida 56
Georgia 52
Arkansas 37

We don't have Alabama talent but he sure had a lot of talent to work with in 2014 and squandered it, he had one of the worst winning percentages in school history for a reason. We have the most players in the Super Bowl of any SEC team. Bielema was much worse than Nutt was. I guess I just don't see how having the most conference blowouts of any coach in Arkansas history in year 5 is close to getting it done.

Those draft picks are heavily weighted towards 5+ years ago before the TCU went to the Big 12, & A&M & Mizzou went the SEC.

[NCDawg]

The kid committed to play for Ron Cooper as his position coach. Let that sink in

Probably 90% of the posters on this board don't remember Cooper when he coached for Sherrill as DC. Total disaster.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's amazing to me that no matter how much we win or lose our recruiting profile does not change.

College football is an odd animal

[sleepy dawg]

Y'all think this is bad... just wait until Joe's name is mentioned in a coaching search by some lazy reporter who hasn't even done any research. That thread will be 10 pages long and the front page of the board will be about that.

[ShotgunDawg]

I just hope Cohen thought this "recruiting thing" through before making the hire & didn't out smart himself.

If Pruitt is sitting there with a top 10 roster in 3 years, I'm gonna throw up

Time will tell

[RougeDawg]

We will continue to lose guys until we learn how to play the game better. Period. End of story.

Don?t expect us to crack the top 15-20 classes in the next few years until we learn the tricks of the trade. Six figure Jobs for parents is a good start and the method On and Bama use. Hard to prove anything with those tactics. Bottom line is we don?t have the alumnus wealth as other programs and we will fall further behind now that the ncaa has opened the flood gates. Maybe we will step up but I?ll wait to comment until after it starts to happen efficiently and in untraceable manners.

[Turfdawg67]

My God... I’m just sorry I helped keep this stupid thread going. It’s like talking to an ignorant brick wall. Well I hope Cohen sees that Joe held onto Guidry, Heath, Whop & Murphy. What a bleak life you must lead.

[ShotgunDawg]

My God... I’m just sorry I helped keep this stupid thread going. It’s like talking to an ignorant brick wall. Well I hope Cohen sees that Joe held onto Guidry, Heath, Whop & Murphy. What a bleak life you must lead.

Skittles and rainbows post

[Dawg61]

I just hope Cohen thought this "recruiting thing" through before making the hire & didn't out smart himself.

If Pruitt is sitting there with a top 10 roster in 3 years, I'm gonna throw up

Time will tell

Careful not to show your hand too early Shotgun. Pruitt gonna have a shitty offense every year with shitty QBs while Moorhead is top 20 every year.

[Commercecomet24]

Maybe we should give this staff more than 2 months on the job and wait til after signing day before saying they can?t recruit.

[ShotgunDawg]

Careful not to show your hand too early Shotgun. Pruitt gonna have a shitty offense every year with shitty QBs while Moorhead is top 20 every year.

Agree and that’s my hope. However, it’s hard to win anything of significance with 15-25 type talent.

I just hope that Pruitt stinks as bad as we think he will as a head coach.

[Dawg61]

Agree and that’s my hope. However, it’s hard to win anything of significance with 15-25 type talent.

I just hope that Pruitt stinks as bad as we think he will as a head coach.

We play Tennessee once every 7 years. Who gives a shit about Pruitt. We need a great offensive coach here not a Saban wannabe minus the brilliant Saban mind. Pruitt is gonna have a meltdown. It's obvious that dude has a serious temper. Let Moorhead have a full year before you cast him to the permanent 15-25 mark in recruiting (which btw those rankings are total bullshit anyways with intent #1 on selling more subscriptions to the largest fanbases). I suggest you pick up another hobby besides college football during the off-season. There's literally unlimited options in this world.

[msbulldog]

NM

[msstate7]

Looks like ark is getting both brule and foucha at safety also.

[msstate7]

Do not look now, but OM has a higher rating per recruit than us. We are 30th and they are 38th, but our lead is based on 3 more commits/signees.

[JDog13]

Do not look now, but OM has a higher rating per recruit than us. We are 30th and they are 38th, but our lead is based on 3 more commits/signees.

Their recruiting guys got Corral a 5 star bump, and a few others got a bump. Same shit every year. It doesn?t translate to the field.

[msstate7]

Their recruiting guys got Corral a 5 star bump, and a few others got a bump. Same shit every year. It doesn?t translate to the field.

Good point on corral. He is most likely really pulling up their recruiting ranking per player

[Commercecomet24]

Yeah there?s now way in heck corral should be a 5 Star. unm hype

[msstate7]

Yeah there?s now way in heck corral should be a 5 Star. unm hype

He is probably a 5-Star much like Sidney was for us. Both are talented guys, but other aspects of their life will keep them from ever reaching their potential

[Commercecomet24]

He is probably a 5-Star much like Sidney was for us. Both are talented guys, but other aspects of their life will keep them from ever reaching their potential

I watched him in elite 11 and some other games. 4 Star was the correct rating for him. He?s not as talented as Jake Fromm and he was a 4 Star.

The kid does have some talent but he?s not a 5 Star.

[Todd4State]

A lot of melt about a player who isn't all that good anyway. I hope everyone feels better now.

If people want to know why we lost him- it's because recruiting is about relationships and that's where MSU falls short a lot of the times. Most coaches that are MSU grads don't steer their players to MSU like this guy's head coach did. Relationships makes a difference. And that's why Ole Miss so desperately tries to find an "in" with every recruit that they want really bad. If we want to stop this from happening we have to start finding our own "ins" with family/coaches that are on our side. It's as simple as that.

[Lumpy Chucklelips]

I can't believe I read every word of this entire thread. Holy shit my head is hurting now. What was I thinking?

[Irondawg]

A lot of melt about a player who isn't all that good anyway. I hope everyone feels better now.

If people want to know why we lost him- it's because recruiting is about relationships and that's where MSU falls short a lot of the times. Most coaches that are MSU grads don't steer their players to MSU like this guy's head coach did. Relationships makes a difference. And that's why Ole Miss so desperately tries to find an "in" with every recruit that they want really bad. If we want to stop this from happening we have to start finding our own "ins" with family/coaches that are on our side. It's as simple as that.

Still doesn?t always work. We always seem to win over the parent that loses the vote. For instance doesn?t Lovett?s Dad favor MSU? Carvin?s Dad supposedly was high in MSU and I thought I read that Masons parents liked State.

Always a guessing game and I agree nobody knows how good he will be as the big instate guys apparently weren?t all that high on him

[confucius say]

Give me mayden over corral every damn day. If that means my ratings are lower, so be it.

[Todd4State]

Good point on corral. He is most likely really pulling up their recruiting ranking per player

We're also about to sign 6-7 more players that will likely boost ours. If our guys aren't rated as high as they should be part of that is on our recruiting media people like Rosebowl. It's a BS system that we don't play like we should because I don't know why.

[Todd4State]

Still doesn?t always work. We always seem to win over the parent that loses the vote. For instance doesn?t Lovett?s Dad favor MSU? Carvin?s Dad supposedly was high in MSU and I thought I read that Masons parents liked State.

Always a guessing game and I agree nobody knows how good he will be as the big instate guys apparently weren?t all that high on him

Of course it doesn't always work. It's not about being foolproof- it's about giving yourself the best chance to land a player. Our recruiters and assistants are paid to figure that out- everyone else can apparently figure out that the high school coach or uncle or whoever is the key to getting a player is. Our recruiting reporters are getting their information from the staff or people close to the staff I assume- and if our staff if off on who the key figure in that player's life is, odds are our recruiting reporters are going to be off on it too. Not their fault- they're paid to report what they are told and if it's wrong it's wrong.

I think a lot of it at this point falls on Dan still- personally it seemed to me like if the players key person truly was their parent we were good. If not, well then shit happens a lot of times. Probably a lot of that again was from Dan and his staff just being too lazy overall to figure out who that key person was- and if they did figure out it was someone other than a parent I would imagine a lot of times Dan just threw his hands up and said forget it. Dan simply did not do what he needed to do to recruit at a high level and he and we suffered for it for years. And if you ask me that's our main reason for not having more top 25 wins under Dan like we did under Jackie. Starting in 2019 everything falls on Joe. At this point all I want to see our staff do is replace Mason with someone like Aaron Brule- who I actually like better than Mason anyway personally. Plus it would keep our NOLA pipeline going and we have had more success in Louisiana getting impact players lately than we have from Alabama.

Back to the original point of this post- it's up to the staff to evaluate and figure out the key people that they need to have a relationship with. And maybe we need to start to encourage our alumni that are high school coaches to sell MSU football more if they aren't totally comfortable steering a good player to us. Recruiting is a selling job and it's about relationships- and we need to do a better job of that going forward.

[TUSK]

Of course it doesn't always work. It's not about being foolproof- it's about giving yourself the best chance to land a player. Our recruiters and assistants are paid to figure that out- everyone else can apparently figure out that the high school coach or uncle or whoever is the key to getting a player is. Our recruiting reporters are getting their information from the staff or people close to the staff I assume- and if our staff if off on who the key figure in that player's life is, odds are our recruiting reporters are going to be off on it too. Not their fault- they're paid to report what they are told and if it's wrong it's wrong.

I think a lot of it at this point falls on Dan still- personally it seemed to me like if the players key person truly was their parent we were good. If not, well then shit happens a lot of times. Probably a lot of that again was from Dan and his staff just being too lazy overall to figure out who that key person was- and if they did figure out it was someone other than a parent I would imagine a lot of times Dan just threw his hands up and said forget it. Dan simply did not do what he needed to do to recruit at a high level and he and we suffered for it for years. And if you ask me that's our main reason for not having more top 25 wins under Dan like we did under Jackie. Starting in 2019 everything falls on Joe. At this point all I want to see our staff do is replace Mason with someone like Aaron Brule- who I actually like better than Mason anyway personally. Plus it would keep our NOLA pipeline going and we have had more success in Louisiana getting impact players lately than we have from Alabama.

Back to the original point of this post- it's up to the staff to evaluate and figure out the key people that they need to have a relationship with. And maybe we need to start to encourage our alumni that are high school coaches to sell MSU football more if they aren't totally comfortable steering a good player to us. Recruiting is a selling job and it's about relationships- and we need to do a better job of that going forward.

Slight hijack... you cats need to be HAMMERING the state of Alabama, IMO.... Currently, UA has (only) 1 signee and 1 commit for 2018... over the last ~5 years, there has been a huge vacuum for talent in-state...

[msbulldog]

We're going to get who we get. There is nothing any of us can do about the final signees and the final number. Jump on board and get excited about the 2018 season. Once we start rolling up wins, we'll gain some more momentum. There are some that spend way too much time being negative and thinking that maybe bitching on here will change the outcome of the class. Shut up, wait til Signing Day and try to say something positive.

Damn Right! +1

[msbulldog]

Probably 90% of the posters on this board don't remember Cooper when he coached for Sherrill as DC. Total disaster.

I remember that idiot and his stupid sideline signals very well.

[msstate7]

We're also about to sign 6-7 more players that will likely boost ours. If our guys aren't rated as high as they should be part of that is on our recruiting media people like Rosebowl. It's a BS system that we don't play like we should because I don't know why.

6-7? Seems like a lot.

[msbulldog]

Good point on corral. He is most likely really pulling up their recruiting ranking per player

Him and that 4-star receiver they flipped from Ga.

[msbulldog]

Of course it doesn't always work. It's not about being foolproof- it's about giving yourself the best chance to land a player. Our recruiters and assistants are paid to figure that out- everyone else can apparently figure out that the high school coach or uncle or whoever is the key to getting a player is. Our recruiting reporters are getting their information from the staff or people close to the staff I assume- and if our staff if off on who the key figure in that player's life is, odds are our recruiting reporters are going to be off on it too. Not their fault- they're paid to report what they are told and if it's wrong it's wrong.

I think a lot of it at this point falls on Dan still- personally it seemed to me like if the players key person truly was their parent we were good. If not, well then shit happens a lot of times. Probably a lot of that again was from Dan and his staff just being too lazy overall to figure out who that key person was- and if they did figure out it was someone other than a parent I would imagine a lot of times Dan just threw his hands up and said forget it. Dan simply did not do what he needed to do to recruit at a high level and he and we suffered for it for years. And if you ask me that's our main reason for not having more top 25 wins under Dan like we did under Jackie. Starting in 2019 everything falls on Joe. At this point all I want to see our staff do is replace Mason with someone like Aaron Brule- who I actually like better than Mason anyway personally. Plus it would keep our NOLA pipeline going and we have had more success in Louisiana getting impact players lately than we have from Alabama.

Back to the original point of this post- it's up to the staff to evaluate and figure out the key people that they need to have a relationship with. And maybe we need to start to encourage our alumni that are high school coaches to sell MSU football more if they aren't totally comfortable steering a good player to us. Recruiting is a selling job and it's about relationships- and we need to do a better job of that going forward.

Contact with Aaron Brule has been re-established, inroads are being laid.

[msstate7]

Contact with Aaron Brule has been re-established, inroads are being laid.

Hopefully it works out. CBs seem to say he ark bound too though

[ShotgunDawg]

Him and that 4-star receiver they flipped from Ga.

The 4 star WR was dropped by UGA and looks like a Dedric Thomas WR

[defiantdog]

I?m surprised early playing time is a concern for Mason. He really needs to learn the safety position if that?s where he wants to be..... he was used like Jamal Peters in high school where he lined up everywhere and didn?t really have a true position.

[BHildreth3]

So question for those that are smarter than me - If we don't have the fanba$e like Ole Miss, then what can we do to change our recruiting profile???

In my opinion, 3 things:

1) We just win football games and we will do that this year with our schedule and talent. If you keep winning, players see that and want to go to a winning program.
2) Continue improving football facilities but i'm not talking about suites and shit for alumni. We need to do what we can to improve the game day environment for the PLAYERS. Our game day locker room is pathetic and the fact that Southern Miss blows us away in this department is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE.
3) Continue pouring money into the football recruiting staff - more people, better software, whatever we need to do.

The one thing to watch and i'm hoping this happens...I hope Coach Moorhead and staff can start beating the better teams. I hope he's a better playcaller than Dan. We got to start beating the top SEC West teams. Until we start beating them, we won't get that top 10 recruiting class and we will stay around top 25-30 recruiting.

[ShotgunDawg]

So question for those that are smarter than me - If we don't have the fanba$e like Ole Miss, then what can we do to change our recruiting profile???

In my opinion, 3 things:

1) We just win football games and we will do that this year with our schedule and talent. If you keep winning, players see that and want to go to a winning program.
2) Continue improving football facilities but i'm not talking about suites and shit for alumni. We need to do what we can to improve the game day environment for the PLAYERS. Our game day locker room is pathetic and the fact that Southern Miss blows us away in this department is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE.
3) Continue pouring money into the football recruiting staff - more people, better software, whatever we need to do.

The one thing to watch and i'm hoping this happens...I hope Coach Moorhead and staff can start beating the better teams. I hope he's a better playcaller than Dan. We got to start beating the top SEC West teams. Until we start beating them, we won't get that top 10 recruiting class and we will stay around top 25-30 recruiting.

In regards to facilities, we are stuck in a stalemate between not wanting to build a new M Club type building in the South EZ and bowling in the south Ez. We need to do something.

[3rdGen]

In regards to facilities, we are stuck in a stalemate between not wanting to build a new M Club type building in the South EZ and bowling in the south Ez. We need to do something.

Build it and they will come!

[Jack Lambert]

Correct, it's really not a big deal in itself.

My bigger concern is that our new staff is losing recruiting battles to a below average program with a new staff

Do we know for sure that our staff was all in for him or not?

[bulldawg28]

Do we know for sure that our staff was all in for him or not?

He wants to play RB and they gave him the option.

[RougeDawg]

A lot of melt about a player who isn't all that good anyway. I hope everyone feels better now.

If people want to know why we lost him- it's because recruiting is about relationships and that's where MSU falls short a lot of the times. Most coaches that are MSU grads don't steer their players to MSU like this guy's head coach did. Relationships makes a difference. And that's why Ole Miss so desperately tries to find an "in" with every recruit that they want really bad. If we want to stop this from happening we have to start finding our own "ins" with family/coaches that are on our side. It's as simple as that.

We have too many blue hairs who are still LT types and ok with 11 am kickoffs. They?d just as well grab a cane pole and hit the river bank on a fall Saturday than go watch a football game. They hate cold beer sales and they especially don?t want people buying alcohol on Sundays. We have way too many aw shucks we will try again next time passive alumni.

If you want the mindset to change, this group has to change their Templeton mindset.

[Dawg61]

We have too many blue hairs who are still LT types and ok with 11 am kickoffs. They?d just as well grab a cane pole and hit the river bank on a fall Saturday than go watch a football game. They hate cold beer sales and they especially don?t want people buying alcohol on Sundays. We have way too many aw shucks we will try again next time passive alumni.

If you want the mindset to change, this group has to change their Templeton mindset.

Everybody should be blackout drunk in the Junction at 2am after a football game or you're a shitty fan!!!****

[Cooterpoot]

Our fan base isn't passionate about MSU athletics or MSU in general. We don't have a large number retiring back to Starkville like OM (Oxford) does either.
And to be honest, our alumni association and the things the school does to help is minimal at best. Our fans, alumni, and school do a terrible job of getting everyone on the same page.

[drunkernhelldawg]

We have too many blue hairs who are still LT types and ok with 11 am kickoffs. They?d just as well grab a cane pole and hit the river bank on a fall Saturday than go watch a football game. They hate cold beer sales and they especially don?t want people buying alcohol on Sundays. We have way too many aw shucks we will try again next time passive alumni.

If you want the mindset to change, this group has to change their Templeton mindset.

I give those "blue hairs" props for sticking with it throughout life. Most don't, and most of you won't, in case you were wondering. The SEC has to have 11 a.m. kickoffs every week. They need to put the least interesting games in those slots. I'm fine with that, but I'll never be fine with a Thursday night game on campus.

[Jack Lambert]

He wants to play RB and they gave him the option.

Sounds to me that our staff did not care if he moved on or not. Plus his chance of seeing the field at RB is better at ARkY right now.

[Commercecomet24]

Sounds to me that our staff did not care if he moved on or not. Plus his chance of seeing the field at RB is better at ARkY right now.

I don't have a ton of inside of info, but i've heard our staff was not terribly disappointed that he moved on. We have a ton of safety's on our roster already and Mason was gonna have to learn to play the position. Also the kid is interested in playing rb and no way was he gonna crack the depth chart here at rb. It looks to be the case of a mutual breakup.

[confucius say]

Our fan base isn't passionate about MSU athletics or MSU in general. We don't have a large number retiring back to Starkville like OM (Oxford) does either.
And to be honest, our alumni association and the things the school does to help is minimal at best. Our fans, alumni, and school do a terrible job of getting everyone on the same page.

I disagree. Our fan base is smaller and thus we have less money, but our fans are very passionate. Look at our attendance vs population of starkville and compare it to every other sec schools attendance vs the population of the city where it resides.

I go to games, give money, watch every baseball, football, basketball, and nearly every women?s basketball game. Most of us are passionate about msu athletics. The fact that people aren?t lining up to retire to starkville says a lot more about starkville and it?s leadership than our passion for msu. Hell its taken until 2017 to finally have smn like what now exists in the cotton district. The city is sitting on a gold mine and hasnt taken advantage of it for 50 years.

[Commercecomet24]

I disagree. Our fan base is smaller and thus we have less money, but our fans are very passionate. Look at our attendance vs population of starkville and compare it to every other sec schools attendance vs the population of the city where it resides.

I go to games, give money, watch every baseball, football, basketball, and nearly every women?s basketball game. Most of us are passionate about msu athletics. The fact that people aren?t lining up to retire to starkville says a lot more about starkville and it?s leadership than our passion for msu. Hell its taken until 2017 to finally have smn like what now exists in the cotton district. The city is sitting on a gold mine and hasnt taken advantage of it for 50 years.

Excellent post!

[Cooterpoot]

I disagree. Our fan base is smaller and thus we have less money, but our fans are very passionate. Look at our attendance vs population of starkville and compare it to every other sec schools attendance vs the population of the city where it resides.

I go to games, give money, watch every baseball, football, basketball, and nearly every women?s basketball game. Most of us are passionate about msu athletics. The fact that people aren?t lining up to retire to starkville says a lot more about starkville and it?s leadership than our passion for msu. Hell its taken until 2017 to finally have smn like what now exists in the cotton district. The city is sitting on a gold mine and hasnt taken advantage of it for 50 years.

Our fan base isn't much smaller than OM. It's minimal. The difference is the number of people that care. I'll give you the money, that's a fact. But it's less about the number of people. As for attendance, check out basketball or football this past season. We aren't filling it up. We're a passive fan base. For every one of you, there's hundreds like I'm describing. I've been on this ship since the 70's. The passion, as a whole, at OM far exceeds what we do.

[ShotgunDawg]

Our fan base isn't much smaller than OM. It's minimal. The difference is the number of people that care. I'll give you the money, that's a fact. But it's less about the number of people. As for attendance, check out basketball or football this past season. We aren't filling it up. We're a passive fan base. For every one of you, there's hundreds like I'm describing. I've been on this ship since the 70's. The passion, as a whole, at OM far exceeds what we do.

Great post.

Ole Miss is more committed than us and more cut throat. It’s as simple as that. MSU people are more realistic and rational but that’s not always a great thing. Particularly in recruiting.

[Cooterpoot]

I can tell you what kids I've been involved with basically say about State. They all like State, but it's the "boring" option. The parents like it because it's a "laid back" school and not a lot of trouble.
The athletes and their parents mention the atmosphere at OM (fun and passionate). They mention how many wealthy people are at OM (right or wrong, folks consider that as far as opportunities in the future because of connections etc.). They also mention how so many people move back to OM later because it's a great place.
Now, I've seen a million times how we all talk about "we recruit a certain kind of kid" and "if you're looking for fun, we don't need you" type stuff. That's the lack of passion. Hell, the only time I hear from the alumni assoc. or anyone with MSU is when they want me to buy more tickets. We're too damn passive. We don't want to make things better or make things happen. We want to sit back and then complain and dismiss kids for not wanting to come here. Go do something about it. Stop complaining because we aren't this or that and definitely stop having pride in being some type of "different" school when that's not what the kids want.
Hell, our out of state recruiting of students is worse than our recruiting of athletes out of state. OM goes and gets those kids and gets their name out there.

[ShotgunDawg]

I can tell you what kids I've been involved with basically say about State. They all like State, but it's the "boring" option. The parents like it because it's a "laid back" school and not a lot of trouble.
The athletes and their parents mention the atmosphere at OM (fun and passionate). They mention how many wealthy people are at OM (right or wrong, folks consider that as far as opportunities in the future because of connections etc.). They also mention how so many people move back to OM later because it's a great place.
Now, I've seen a million times how we all talk about "we recruit a certain kind of kid" and "if you're looking for fun, we don't need you" type stuff. That's the lack of passion. Hell, the only time I hear from the alumni assoc. or anyone with MSU is when they want me to buy more tickets. We're too damn passive. We don't want to make things better or make things happen. We want to sit back and then complain and dismiss kids for not wanting to come here. Go do something about it. Stop complaining because we aren't this or that and definitely stop having pride in being some type of "different" school when that's not what the kids want.
Hell, our out of state recruiting of students is worse than our recruiting of athletes out of state. OM goes and gets those kids and gets their name out there.

Nailed it

As I’ve said before, I love Mississippi State but can’t stand the mentality of many of its fans.

How do we change what you spoke about? How do we build that pride, passion, and sexiness?

From a mentality standpoint, we need more Brandon Walkers and less Bo Bounds and Hair Gels.

How do we get there?

[msbulldog]

I disagree. Our fan base is smaller and thus we have less money, but our fans are very passionate. Look at our attendance vs population of starkville and compare it to every other sec schools attendance vs the population of the city where it resides.

I go to games, give money, watch every baseball, football, basketball, and nearly every women?s basketball game. Most of us are passionate about msu athletics. The fact that people aren?t lining up to retire to starkville says a lot more about starkville and it?s leadership than our passion for msu. Hell its taken until 2017 to finally have smn like what now exists in the cotton district. The city is sitting on a gold mine and hasnt taken advantage of it for 50 years.

It's us Blue Hairs that put up the money for the stadium expansion, for the Seals Complex and the new Dude. That is called passion.

[JDog13]

We're also about to sign 6-7 more players that will likely boost ours. If our guys aren't rated as high as they should be part of that is on our recruiting media people like Rosebowl. It's a BS system that we don't play like we should because I don't know why.

That damn rosebowl. You think Paul and Roberto can get us some more stars?

[confucius say]

I can tell you what kids I've been involved with basically say about State. They all like State, but it's the "boring" option. The parents like it because it's a "laid back" school and not a lot of trouble.
The athletes and their parents mention the atmosphere at OM (fun and passionate). They mention how many wealthy people are at OM (right or wrong, folks consider that as far as opportunities in the future because of connections etc.). They also mention how so many people move back to OM later because it's a great place.
Now, I've seen a million times how we all talk about "we recruit a certain kind of kid" and "if you're looking for fun, we don't need you" type stuff. That's the lack of passion. Hell, the only time I hear from the alumni assoc. or anyone with MSU is when they want me to buy more tickets. We're too damn passive. We don't want to make things better or make things happen. We want to sit back and then complain and dismiss kids for not wanting to come here. Go do something about it. Stop complaining because we aren't this or that and definitely stop having pride in being some type of "different" school when that's not what the kids want.
Hell, our out of state recruiting of students is worse than our recruiting of athletes out of state. OM goes and gets those kids and gets their name out there.

I don?t think the word ?passion? means what you think it means. You are not describing a lack of passion in your posts. So I can fully understand, please lists the reasons you believe OM fans, or any fans, are more passionate than State fans.

[confucius say]

Great post.

Ole Miss is more committed than us and more cut throat. It’s as simple as that. MSU people are more realistic and rational but that’s not always a great thing. Particularly in recruiting.

You?re conflating commitment with passion.

Also, if what OM and the network does in recruiting is your definition of ?commitment,? you can have that.

[CarolinaDawgs]

I can tell you what kids I've been involved with basically say about State. They all like State, but it's the "boring" option. The parents like it because it's a "laid back" school and not a lot of trouble.
The athletes and their parents mention the atmosphere at OM (fun and passionate). They mention how many wealthy people are at OM (right or wrong, folks consider that as far as opportunities in the future because of connections etc.). They also mention how so many people move back to OM later because it's a great place.
Now, I've seen a million times how we all talk about "we recruit a certain kind of kid" and "if you're looking for fun, we don't need you" type stuff. That's the lack of passion. Hell, the only time I hear from the alumni assoc. or anyone with MSU is when they want me to buy more tickets. We're too damn passive. We don't want to make things better or make things happen. We want to sit back and then complain and dismiss kids for not wanting to come here. Go do something about it. Stop complaining because we aren't this or that and definitely stop having pride in being some type of "different" school when that's not what the kids want.
Hell, our out of state recruiting of students is worse than our recruiting of athletes out of state. OM goes and gets those kids and gets their name out there.

COME ON.... Don't confuse passion with morals. That is plain dumb. Also-- considering you have completely lost reality on the situation-- there is no way in hell I'm gonna let you dictate what pride I have in MSU. If you want to sit there and compare us to OM with every single waking breath that's your prerogative and loss honestly, but to help you out they aint filling up their stadium either and the passion they have is crazy and aint got shit to show for it except bow ties and cold chicken fingers.

I wonder why so many people retire in Oxford??? hmmm maybe because its a suburb of memphis? ya know.. A city with a population of 670K and the nearest cities to starkville that even compare are Jackson (2.5 hours and pop of 160k) and Birmingham (2.5 hours and 210k pop) This really isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Starkville is in the middle of Nowhere and what we've accomplished despite that speaks volume about our fanbase and ability to be a "different" yet still great. It's actually more impressive than OM if you have a brain. This doesnt mean that I am content with the status quo either which is how you will probably perceive it. Confucious pretty much nailed it btw

[WPS]

Sounds to me that our staff did not care if he moved on or not. Plus his chance of seeing the field at RB is better at ARkY right now.

I doubt he plays RB. The #3 JUCO RB just committed to Arkansas and there are 4 RBs on the roster already. Need safeties a lot more.

[ShotgunDawg]

You?re conflating commitment with passion.

Also, if what OM and the network does in recruiting is your definition of ?commitment,? you can have that.

I’m not saying we should do what they do, but they will likely always recruit better than us because they are willing to win at all cost.

I’m not making a judgement on what we should or shouldn’t do. Just stating the reality normally the most aggressive companies & people get the bacon.

[confucius say]

I’m not saying we should do what they do, but they will likely always recruit better than us because they are willing to win at all cost.

I’m not making a judgement on what we should or shouldn’t do. Just stating the reality normally the most aggressive companies & people get the bacon.

Why do you think they have recruited better than us? Bc 247 tells you so on signing day.

We have a crap ton more talent on our roster than they do, no? And look at the nfl. We have one of the top 2-3 corners in the nfl, the best defensive tackle, a top 2-3 offensive guard, a top 10 qb, two stand out lb (although KJ is aging), etc... I?ll take our current roster and last 10 recruiting classes over theirs every day of the week and so would you. Yet we?ve ?outrecuited? then maybe twice in that time period.

[RougeDawg]

Everybody should be blackout drunk in the Junction at 2am after a football game or you're a shitty fan!!!****

If that?s what you read you have a comprehension problem. Carry on.

[Commercecomet24]

I’m not saying we should do what they do, but they will likely always recruit better than us because they are willing to win at all cost.

I’m not making a judgement on what we should or shouldn’t do. Just stating the reality normally the most aggressive companies & people get the bacon.

But that's it, they're not getting "the bacon" We have a better record than them and have consistently finished higher than them in the SEC over the last 9 years.

[confucius say]

But that's it, they're not getting "the bacon" We have a better record than them and have consistently finished higher than them in the SEC over the last 9 years.

Not to mention signed better players, 247 ratings notwithstanding.

[Commercecomet24]

Not to mention signed better players, 247 ratings notwithstanding.

Yep, exactly! Would anyone want to trade rosters with the bears? Hell no!

[CarolinaDawgs]

But that's it, they're not getting "the bacon" We have a better record than them and have consistently finished higher than them in the SEC over the last 9 years.


Not to mention signed better players, 247 ratings notwithstanding.

PLEASE NO FACTS!!! It will ruin their perception and the narrative they choose to believe.

[Commercecomet24]

Where are all these people moving back to oxford because it's such a great place? It's certainly not reflected in the numbers. Populations: Oxford=23,290, Starkville=25,570. Lafayette County=53,154, Oktibbeha County=49,800.

[Bothrops]

I wonder why so many people retire in Oxford??? hmmm maybe because its a suburb of memphis? ya know.. A city with a population of 670K and the nearest cities to starkville that even compare are Jackson (2.5 hours and pop of 160k) and Birmingham (2.5 hours and 210k pop) This really isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Oxford is 85 miles from Memphis, and while that maybe the closest large metro to Oxford, it's not a suburb.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

i live 20 mins from Oxford.... there is a lot of debt there and a lot of inventory in the housing market.....

[Commercecomet24]

I think C34 put it most eloquently, oxford is grenada without the lake.

[Todd4State]

Why do you think they have recruited better than us? Bc 247 tells you so on signing day.

We have a crap ton more talent on our roster than they do, no? And look at the nfl. We have one of the top 2-3 corners in the nfl, the best defensive tackle, a top 2-3 offensive guard, a top 10 qb, two stand out lb (although KJ is aging), etc... I?ll take our current roster and last 10 recruiting classes over theirs every day of the week and so would you. Yet we?ve ?outrecuited? then maybe twice in that time period.

Who has won the Egg Bowl three out of the past four years?

[TUSK]

Who has won the Egg Bowl three out of the past four years?

The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

(premature... still crunching...)

[Commercecomet24]

Those 3 losses to unm were more a product of crappy coaching than them having more talent, imo. (That and a qb with a half turn off leg thanks to a cheap shot).

[msstate7]

Those 3 losses to unm were more a product of crappy coaching than them having more talent, imo. (That and a qb with a half turn off leg thanks to a cheap shot).
Meh... they were more talented in 2014 and 2015 imo. Both teams had talent though for sure.

We were more talented this year

[ShotgunDawg]

The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

(premature... still crunching...)

MSU has been more talented on defense & in the running game & Ole Miss has been more explosive on offense.

Depending on the type of strengths needed to beat opponents, we both tended to have have success against different teams while accumulating similar records.

[Commercecomet24]

Meh... they were more talented in 2014 and 2015 imo. Both teams had talent though for sure.

We were more talented this year

I think it was pretty even those 2 years. I was just pointing out I think the losses were on danny boy more than them having more talent. We should?ve won in 14 and 15. But I agree both teams had similar talent

[msstate7]

I think it was pretty even those 2 years. I was just pointing out I think the losses were on danny boy more than them having more talent. We should?ve won in 14 and 15. But I agree both teams had similar talent

We definitely should have won in 2014.

[Commercecomet24]

We definitely should have won in 2014.

Yeah that game was a total cluster

[Todd4State]

The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

(premature... still crunching...)

So, with the question being "would you really take their roster over ours..." the answer is probably negligible at best. And being that I am 100% sure WE weren't recruiting up to our potential because of Dan's laziness- we should have clearly been the better team had we been recruiting up to ours or at least closer to it. Even with Ole Miss cheating out the wazoo.

And that brings me to this point about MSU fans and MSU in general- we simply undervalue or let way too much slide in recruiting especially under the Dan Mullen era. What MSU allowed Dan to do in recruiting would not have been acceptable at very many if any SEC schools not named Vanderbilt. And that's 100% on MSU. And why people like Shotgun say things like "Ole Miss just simply wants it more in recruiting". Because when a school like MSU allows coaches like Hevesy, Sallach, and Gonzales to hang around and put forth about 50% effort and not demand changes...what other conclusion can people come to other than MSU simply just doesn't care? MSU should have demanded wholesale staff changes on the offensive side after the 2015 season. Instead we just didn't extend Dan. Instead up until the time Dan left a lot of our fans defended our staff ad nauseum- very visible MSU fans that have podcasts and things like that telling me on Twitter that Hevesy wasn't the problem and basically protecting what was going on all the while telling me and everyone else that if you aren't happy with 8 win seasons at MSU you will never be happy in your life. That attitude HAS to change.

But it's really not about switching rosters- it's what would happen if MSU didn't miss on so many targets in recruiting? Not necessarily even the ones that went to Ole Miss- but MSU has lost several in state recruits to other schools as well like LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and etc. Simply adding 1-2 of those would have probably put MSU over the top against Ole Miss and probably helped us get at least one Sugar Bowl appearance, perhaps a better season than 6-7 in 2016 and who knows about this year. When I read that a recruit from Mississippi chose LSU simply because "LSU just seemed to want me more"- that tells me EVERYTHING that was wrong with MSU recruiting right there.

The good news is it CAN change- and without wholesale illegal recruiting. MSU women's basketball has a FAR worse history than MSU football and they have managed to recruit at a high level. The other sports at MSU recruit well. Our fans give football a pass because for some reason it has been ingrained that we can't do better than a Liberty Bowl and an Egg Bowl win. And therefore our last coach was given a pass he shouldn't have gotten and the whole program and fanbase suffered.

Somehow our fans HAVE TO get to the point where:

1. They have to understand that there is some merit to the star system.
2. We CAN recruit better- and wanting to do so does not mean wholesale cheating like Ole Miss. And be OK with that.
3. Be OK holding coaches and the athletic department accountable.
4. Understand that recruiting CAN BE a useful tool for promoting program perception and be OK with a player picking us with a hat party, at the Army/UA AAG, and etc. and not be worried about "but what will happen if they don't pan out"?

[TUSK]

So, with the question being "would you really take their roster over ours..." the answer is probably negligible at best. And being that I am 100% sure WE weren't recruiting up to our potential because of Dan's laziness- we should have clearly been the better team had we been recruiting up to ours or at least closer to it. Even with Ole Miss cheating out the wazoo.

And that brings me to this point about MSU fans and MSU in general- we simply undervalue or let way too much slide in recruiting especially under the Dan Mullen era. What MSU allowed Dan to do in recruiting would not have been acceptable at very many if any SEC schools not named Vanderbilt. And that's 100% on MSU. And why people like Shotgun say things like "Ole Miss just simply wants it more in recruiting". Because when a school like MSU allows coaches like Hevesy, Sallach, and Gonzales to hang around and put forth about 50% effort and not demand changes...what other conclusion can people come to other than MSU simply just doesn't care? MSU should have demanded wholesale staff changes on the offensive side after the 2015 season. Instead we just didn't extend Dan. Instead up until the time Dan left a lot of our fans defended our staff ad nauseum- very visible MSU fans that have podcasts and things like that telling me on Twitter that Hevesy wasn't the problem and basically protecting what was going on all the while telling me and everyone else that if you aren't happy with 8 win seasons at MSU you will never be happy in your life. That attitude HAS to change.

But it's really not about switching rosters- it's what would happen if MSU didn't miss on so many targets in recruiting? Not necessarily even the ones that went to Ole Miss- but MSU has lost several in state recruits to other schools as well like LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and etc. Simply adding 1-2 of those would have probably put MSU over the top against Ole Miss and probably helped us get at least one Sugar Bowl appearance, perhaps a better season than 6-7 in 2016 and who knows about this year. When I read that a recruit from Mississippi chose LSU simply because "LSU just seemed to want me more"- that tells me EVERYTHING that was wrong with MSU recruiting right there.

The good news is it CAN change- and without wholesale illegal recruiting. MSU women's basketball has a FAR worse history than MSU football and they have managed to recruit at a high level. The other sports at MSU recruit well. Our fans give football a pass because for some reason it has been ingrained that we can't do better than a Liberty Bowl and an Egg Bowl win. And therefore our last coach was given a pass he shouldn't have gotten and the whole program and fanbase suffered.

Somehow our fans HAVE TO get to the point where:

1. They have to understand that there is some merit to the star system.
2. We CAN recruit better- and wanting to do so does not mean wholesale cheating like Ole Miss. And be OK with that.
3. Be OK holding coaches and the athletic department accountable.
4. Understand that recruiting CAN BE a useful tool for promoting program perception and be OK with a player picking us with a hat party, at the Army/UA AAG, and etc. and not be worried about "but what will happen if they don't pan out"?

Here ya go, buddy....

Averages (2015-2017): 247 Team Composite Ratings, SEC Reg. Season Wins/Yr, Overall Wins/Yr


TEAM RTG SEC OA
UA 93.05 7.33 13.67
LSU 90.28 5.33 8.67
UGA 89.82 5.33 10.33
AU 89.53 4.67 8.33
UF 87.59 5.33 7.67
UT 87.57 3.00 7.33
A&M 87.40 4.00 7.67
OM 87.04 3.67 7.00
SC 86.38 3.00 6.00
AR 85.99 3.00 6.33
KY 85.60 3.33 6.33
MSU 85.36 3.67 8.00
MO 84.78 2.33 5.33
VDY 83.94 2.00 5.00

I gotta big, giant spreadsheet thingy if y'all wanna sort, drill down some, etc, et al, yada, yada, yada...

[Todd4State]

Here ya go, buddy....

Averages (2015-2017): 247 Team Composite Ratings, SEC Reg. Season Wins/Yr, Overall Wins/Yr


TEAM RTG SEC OA
UA 93.05 7.33 13.67
LSU 90.28 5.33 8.67
UGA 89.82 5.33 10.33
AU 89.53 4.67 8.33
UF 87.59 5.33 7.67
UT 87.57 3.00 7.33
A&M 87.40 4.00 7.67
OM 87.04 3.67 7.00
SC 86.38 3.00 6.00
AR 85.99 3.00 6.33
KY 85.60 3.33 6.33
MSU 85.36 3.67 8.00
MO 84.78 2.33 5.33
VDY 83.94 2.00 5.00

I gotta big, giant spreadsheet thingy if y'all wanna sort, drill down some, etc, et al, yada, yada, yada...

Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

[TUSK]

Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

You're welcome.... if the numbers hadn't agreed with your synopsis, this thread coulda gone this way:

https://www.sportfishingmag.com/sites/sportfishingmag.com/files/styles/1000_1x_/public/import/2011/files/_images/201104/140-0411caledonia_1.jpg?itok=YMc4aM3X

[TUSK]

Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

Yeah, this was the biggest outlier I found... Suspect OOC scheduling was the cause, I think...

[confucius say]

Anybody who thinks of roster has the talent our roster has does not understand football. Don?t take my word for it, look at nfl projections the next two years. Yet, according to recruiting rankings, they have signed more talent than us the last 5 years.

Also, tusk chart above proves my point. We have the same amount of sec wins and more overall wins despite much lower rankings. The truth is, they have not outrecruited us like so many people on here claim.

[sandwolf]

I think it was pretty even those 2 years. I was just pointing out I think the losses were on danny boy more than them having more talent. We should?ve won in 14 and 15. But I agree both teams had similar talent

We should've won in 2014, but they were just flat out better than us in 2015.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Anybody who thinks of roster has the talent our roster has does not understand football. Don?t take my word for it, look at nfl projections the next two years. Yet, according to recruiting rankings, they have signed more talent than us the last 5 years.

Also, tusk chart above proves my point. We have the same amount of sec wins and more overall wins despite much lower rankings. The truth is, they have not outrecruited us like so many people on here claim.

Dont say that. Results dont matter is what they are rated by a bunch of ''experts'' who never watch them play live or know anything about them other than a few buzzwords to say on signing day

[Commercecomet24]

We should've won in 2014, but they were just flat out better than us in 2015.

I?m just still pissed we lost on Daks senior night.

[Commercecomet24]

Here?s something else to think about.. Based on tusks chart we have almost identical records in sec and overall as AM who on paper supposedly has way more talent.

[sandwolf]

I?m just still pissed we lost on Daks senior night.

Yea, that loss was really bad. The Egg Bowl on Dak's senior night with the Sugar Bowl on the line, and they absolutely skull drug us....the game was over with 10+ minutes left in the second quarter.

[Commercecomet24]

Yea, that loss was really bad. The Egg Bowl on Dak's senior night with the Sugar Bowl on the line, and they absolutely skull drug us....the game was over with 10+ minutes left in the second quarter.

Yeah that ones gonna bug me til I die. Hate Dak had to go out like that. Winning the bowl game helped some. At least his very last game was a win. But dang to lose that one.

And with all the rumors of danny boy looking at other jobs during Egg Bowl week makes it even harder to swallow.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Yeah that ones gonna bug me til I die. Hate Dak had to go out like that. Winning the bowl game helped some. At least his very last game was a win. But dang to lose that one.

Thats what happens when your head coach had one foot out the door and his OL coach was such an insufferable asshole that we had to move a TE to LT cause we couldnt sign a decent O lineman

[TUSK]

Here are my BASIC, low brow points:

Save the Hugh Freeze anomaly, recent recruiting by OM and MSU are fairly similar... OM has been fortunate to woo* some cats to campus that helped them steal a few, but also lose some they shouldn't... MSU, meanwhile, with less "high end talent" has been more consistent/conservative in not losing to many 'dogs, but not upsetting many of note, either...

Dig on this: Once you get below 5* & high 4* recruits and/or below the ~90 point range, the accuracy of such rankings is extremely volatile...

I'll rephrase: Accuracy of recruiting ranking is directly proportional to the rank...

I'm on about my 17th drink (SWIDT?), so, I dunno if I'm makin' any sense....

[msstate7]

This thread is going around the world... reminds me of losing Paul gainer thread

[Commercecomet24]

Here are my BASIC, low brow points:

Save the Hugh Freeze anomaly, recent recruiting by OM and MSU are fairly similar... OM has been fortunate to woo* some cats to campus that helped them steal a few, but also lose some they shouldn't... MSU, meanwhile, with less "high end talent" has been more consistent/conservative in not losing to many 'dogs, but not upsetting many of note, either...

Dig on this: Once you get below 5* & high 4* recruits and/or below the ~90 point range, the accuracy of such rankings is extremely volatile...

I'll rephrase: Accuracy of recruiting ranking is directly proportional to the rank...

I'm on about my 17th drink (SWIDT?), so, I dunno if I'm makin' any sense....

I concur and I?m not drunk lol

[Commercecomet24]

This thread is going around the world... reminds me of losing Paul gainer thread

Dude you?re hitting on all cylinders tonight!

[BuckyIsAB****]

This thread is going around the world... reminds me of losing Paul gainer thread

See my post about our insufferable asshole OL coach

[TUSK]

I concur and I?m not drunk lol

so, what you are suggesting is that when I'm at ~0.235 BAC, we are in congruence?

[Todd4State]

Anybody who thinks of roster has the talent our roster has does not understand football. Don?t take my word for it, look at nfl projections the next two years. Yet, according to recruiting rankings, they have signed more talent than us the last 5 years.

Also, tusk chart above proves my point. We have the same amount of sec wins and more overall wins despite much lower rankings. The truth is, they have not outrecruited us like so many people on here claim.

It's not that we "don't have talent". It's that we aren't MAXIMIZING what we could bring in. Just because we aren't devoid of talent doesn't mean that we can't or should do better. That's the thing that people miss in the big picture because we've never consistently won 6-8 games a year. If we simply bring in a few offensive linemen that actually qualify we actually probably jump up past Ole Miss in recruiting. And without cheating.

But like I said it's not about Ole Miss outrecruiting us although yeah they've gotten a few recruits that could have helped us and put us over the top. (And all Dan really had to do was send AJ Brown's Dad to some booster who could help him instead of telling him essentially "we don't do that go **** yourself" and then keep things a secret in Starkville- and if we can't keep things on the downlow in Starkville I don't where we could) It's about LSU coming in and Saahdiq Charles who started some as a true freshman for LSU. It's about Alabama coming in and getting Scott Lashley. It's about totally misevaluting Jaylen Smith and letting him go to Louisville where he is now a guy that just declared for the NFL draft and would have been our number one this year.

Do we have talent? Yes. But we only have enough to reach the arbitrary ceiling that a lot of our fans decided was OK for us because Tech and 10 sucked and they thought to themselves that they would kill to just go to a bowl every year. When the reality is we've not only reached that ceiling- we've gotten to a place where we can realisitically break through that traditional ceiling and go beyond it and the floor is becoming the old 8 win ceiling for us and going to NY6 bowls is a very realistic goal for us. Those of us that see the big picture- and there are many of us- understand that and just want MSU to take that "final step" to become the MSU football program that we only dreamed of because we're pretty close and it's now realistic. MSU really just needs the rest of the fanbase to understand that as well so that we can all push forward together rather than have a lot of our fans shoot down those that call out things that are actually holding the program back.

[Commercecomet24]

so, what you are suggesting is that when I'm at ~0.235 BAC, we are in congruence?

Maybe it expands your mind to my level lol

[TUSK]

Maybe it expands your mind to my level lol

Eh Kay,,,, ya had to go there, didn'tcha....?

I'm gonna mix another drink.... rat bastard.

[Dawg61]

If that?s what you read you have a comprehension problem. Carry on.

Ah I see you have forgotten about your Junction melt from last year. Good job. It is healthier to forget the melts and move on.

[RougeDawg]

Here?s something else to think about.. Based on tusks chart we have almost identical records in sec and overall as AM who on paper supposedly has way more talent.

Here?s the thing. We have done an above average job developing 3-4 star signees into 4-5 star players in the field. I don?t think anyone is arguing that we currently do not have talent. The argument is given our track record of developing our signees up a star or two on the actual field, the more and more 4-5 star heavy classes we sign, imagine our possibilities.

Other teams have recruiting right with Bama the last decade but they do not have the same end results. Because Saban has shown that he takes top talent and coaches them up even more.

[Commercecomet24]

Here?s the thing. We have done an above average job developing 3-4 star signees into 4-5 star players in the field. I don?t think anyone is arguing that we currently do not have talent. The argument is given our track record of developing our signees up a star or two on the actual field, the more and more 4-5 star heavy classes we sign, imagine our possibilities.

Other teams have recruiting right with Bama the last decade but they do not have the same end results. Because Saban has shown that he takes top talent and coaches them up even more.

100% agree we have done a great job developing players. To reach the next level though we need more sec ready players that can be developed to an even higher level.

[Jack Lambert]

I doubt he plays RB. The #3 JUCO RB just committed to Arkansas and there are 4 RBs on the roster already. Need safeties a lot more.

So what you are saying is Arkansas is lying to him.