History of Ole Miss Flips

[ShotgunDawg]

Here I am going to include players that have flipped from MSU to Ole Miss & players that were considered heavy MSU leans before eventually signing with Ole Miss.

It more or less appears that Ole Miss does a great job of taking problems & bad players off our hands.

1. Tee Shepherd - Never contributed at Ole Miss
2. Pat Patterson - Quit team at OM
3. Brassel - Flunked out
4. CJ Johnson - Average, replacement level player but played out of position and blew NFL potential
5. Kailo Moore - sucked and never had impact
6. Jay Johnson - Never qualified
7. Armani Linton - Can't get on the field
8. Tobias Singleton - flunked out
9. Sean Rawlings - Good player. Grew up an OM fan so his flipping IMO was more legit & with reason.
10. Tae-Kion Reed - Arrested JUCO

My take on this is not that Ole Miss is some terrible place with terrible coaches, but rather that there is something wrong with kids that flip. There is simply growing evidence that they don't pan out & it is my belief that there is a strong correlation between the personality traits that cause a kid to flip & laziness, being easily influenced, lack a plan in life, poor judgement, lack of leadership, & general flakiness that makes it difficult for kids those kids to thrive in college football & in the classroom.

And FWIW, I don't think these players would have panned out at MSU either. I think it is less about the school they attend & more about the fact they were easily swayed, gave into peer pressure, accepted benefits, etc that caused them to flip. Leo Lewis is really our only flip from them & it will be interesting to see how his career pans out. Right now, I think it could go either way. Robert Elliott also flipped from OM to MSU, but he was injured, so it's not conclusive to me as to how he ended up.

I hope future kids, whether they are committed to MSU or OM, will consider this data before making a decision to flip. Of course though, the kids that would actually consider this data, think things through, etc are the ones that don't typically flip anyway. So in many ways this entire post is preaching to the choir

[thf24]

I think it's the kids who buy into OM's pathetic little spite game who tend to have character and work ethic issues and don't amount to anything. I don't think you'd find this pattern looking at a larger sample size including more schools; guys who flip for sound reasons probably turn out fine on average.

[ShotgunDawg]

I think it's the kids who buy into OM's pathetic little spite game who tend to have character and work ethic issues and don't amount to anything. I don't think you'd find this pattern looking at a larger sample size including more schools; guys who flip for sound reasons probably turn out fine on average.

Good point. Maybe it does have more to do with OM's little spite game than I'm giving it credit for.

Do you think these would have panned out at MSU or do you think them flipping revealed a character flaw that would have prevented them from being successful at MSU as well?

[msstate7]

If Rawlings is a good player, so was CJ. Career stats = 13.5 sacks, 28 tfl, 180 tackles, 2 int

ETA - point remains though... most are not worth crying over

[Tbonewannabe]

If Rawlings is a good player, so was CJ. Career stats = 13.5 sacks, 28 tfl, 180 tackles, 2 int

I would say CJ was good but at MSU could have been great with an actual shot at a NFL career. CJ was the one that hurt the worst. He was the guy who helped recruiting the class and was very pro MSU. Even had his lanyard ripped off his neck at the Egg Bowl because he stood up when MSU made a good play. His father who died told him how important his word was and was a big MSU fan. Then during the "dead period" all of the sudden decommits and is the UM flag bearer.

I would think that is the one that sticks out the most.

[Bully13]

agree on Rawlings flipping. and his success surprises me. he musta worked his ass off to bump all those 4 & 5 star guys to get that starting role. I think his recruitment is testament to how we do things vs how tsun does things. we saw something in the guy while tsun only was looking to splash the stars around to their fan base. in the end, tsun just couldn't handle us signing "one of theirs" and said wtf, we can't let MSU sign him so lets go ahead and offer.

don't hate Rawlings. hope the kid gets paid on Sunday's one day.

[HoopsDawg]

agree on Rawlings flipping. and his success surprises me. he musta worked his ass off to bump all those 4 & 5 star guys to get that starting role. I think his recruitment is testament to how we do things vs how tsun does things. we saw something in the guy while tsun only was looking to splash the stars around to their fan base. in the end, tsun just couldn't handle us signing "one of theirs" and said wtf, we can't let MSU sign him so lets go ahead and offer.

don't hate Rawlings. hope the kid gets paid on Sunday's one day.

Rawlings committed to us b/c he didn't have an Ole Miss offer. Ole Miss offered, he grew up cheering for them so he flipped. Same with us and LSU regarding Cole Smith, but Cole didn't flip.

[DogsofAnarchy]

Here I am going to include players that have flipped from MSU to Ole Miss & players that were considered heavy MSU leans before eventually signing with Ole Miss.

It more or less appears that Ole Miss does a great job of taking problems & bad players off our hands.

1. Tee Shepherd - Never contributed at Ole Miss
2. Pat Patterson - Quit team at OM
3. Brassel - Flunked out
4. CJ Johnson - Average, replacement level player but played out of position and blew NFL potential
5. Kailo Moore - sucked and never had impact
6. Jay Johnson - Never qualified
7. Armani Linton - Can't get on the field
8. Tobias Singleton - flunked out
9. Sean Rawlings - Good player. Grew up an OM fan so his flipping IMO was more legit & with reason.
10. Tae-Kion Reed - Arrested JUCO

My take on this is not that Ole Miss is some terrible place with terrible coaches, but rather that there is something wrong with kids that flip. There is simply growing evidence that they don't pan out & it is my belief that there is a strong correlation between the personality traits that cause a kid to flip & laziness, being easily influenced, lack a plan in life, poor judgement, lack of leadership, & general flakiness that makes it difficult for kids those kids to thrive in college football & in the classroom.

And FWIW, I don't think these players would have panned out at MSU either. I think it is less about the school they attend & more about the fact they were easily swayed, gave into peer pressure, accepted benefits, etc that caused them to flip. Leo Lewis is really our only flip from them & it will be interesting to see how his career pans out. Right now, I think it could go either way. Robert Elliott also flipped from OM to MSU, but he was injured, so it's not conclusive to me as to how he ended up.

I hope future kids, whether they are committed to MSU or OM, will consider this data before making a decision to flip. Of course though, the kids that would actually consider this data, think things through, etc are the ones that don't typically flip anyway. So in many ways this entire post is preaching to the choir

You are definitely on to something here. These Drama Queens very seldom work out.

[msstate7]

agree on Rawlings flipping. and his success surprises me. he musta worked his ass off to bump all those 4 & 5 star guys to get that starting role. I think his recruitment is testament to how we do things vs how tsun does things. we saw something in the guy while tsun only was looking to splash the stars around to their fan base. in the end, tsun just couldn't handle us signing "one of theirs" and said wtf, we can't let MSU sign him so lets go ahead and offer.

don't hate Rawlings. hope the kid gets paid on Sunday's one day.

Nah, screw Rawlings and his dad

[Bully13]

Nah, screw Rawlings and his dad

yea, I don't like how all that shit materialized either. I hear what you are saying. I just blame this more on tsun's stupid tacticts and work ethic than on Rawlings and his dad.

[MetEdDawg]

I’ll say this. Character plays a lot into this. If you are the kind of kid that has flipped the way these kids have, you have character flaws. It’s one thing to go to another school because you legitimately feel better there. And I’ve got no problem with that on signing day even as a flip because we are asking kids to make major decisions at a period of time where they don’t have all the tools to make the most qualified decisions.

But when you hat fake purposely to make someone look bad, or when you commit to a coach then hours later spurn them for someone else, or when you are committed to someone and actively recruit against that school you are committedd to, or you go to social media to show off the rewards you got for flipping, you have a major character flaw that will ultimately, in 95% of cases in teenagers, will overtake your physical ability that you are relying on.

Half he players the OP mentioned either quit, flunked out, or got arrested. Not even taking about not living up to on field potential through 4-5 years, but couldn’t even handle just the normal every day life of college and had to straight up quit. With my baseball kids I always tell them that they can’t be a turd at school and expect to not be a turd on the field. You can have all the talent in the world, but the field always displays your true nature. You may come up big sometimes, but you will fail more than you succeed because you don’t make a habit of doing the right thing on a consistent basis. These OM kids who have flipped like that are the epitome of that.

[ShotgunDawg]

Nah, screw Rawlings and his dad

Oh, I agree they can go 17 themselves. Just saying that there are reasons why I think Rawlings was a different type of flip than the others.

[ShotgunDawg]

I’ll say this. Character plays a lot into this. If you are the kind of kid that has flipped the way these kids have, you have character flaws. It’s one thing to go to another school because you legitimately feel better there. And I’ve got no problem with that on signing day even as a flip because we are asking kids to make major decisions at a period of time where they don’t have all the tools to make the most qualified decisions.

But when you hat fake purposely to make someone look bad, or when you commit to a coach then hours later spurn them for someone else, or when you are committed to someone and actively recruit against that school you are committedd to, or you go to social media to show off the rewards you got for flipping, you have a major character flaw that will ultimately, in 95% of cases in teenagers, will overtake your physical ability that you are relying on.

Half he players the OP mentioned either quit, flunked out, or got arrested. Not even taking about not living up to on field potential through 4-5 years, but couldn’t even handle just the normal every day life of college and had to straight up quit. With my baseball kids I always tell them that they can’t be a turd at school and expect to not be a turd on the field. You can have all the talent in the world, but the field always displays your true nature. You may come up big sometimes, but you will fail more than you succeed because you don’t make a habit of doing the right thing on a consistent basis. These OM kids who have flipped like that are the epitome of that.

Great post.

It will be interesting to see if Fabian Lovett makes the conscience decision to join this list of players.

[Bully13]

Great post.

It will be interesting to see if Fabian Lovett makes the conscience decision to join this list of players.

does anybody know why Fabian Lovett did not sign Wed? anybody know what's going on with him?

[ShotgunDawg]

does anybody know why Fabian Lovett did not sign Wed? anybody know what's going on with him?

Ole Miss is selling him on early playing time, which outside of QBs, is a terrible decision to flip your commitment. If you can play, you will play at MSU the same as you'll play at OM.

UGA just signed a bunch of 97+ rated dudes that have no chance of playing early.

Early playing time ruins more careers than it helps & is a ploy that bad programs use & kids in need of short term gratification jump at.

Again, the stats shown here basically show that it's probable that it won't work out for him if he flips.

Hopefully, he has legitimate guidance & respectable people in his life that understand this.

[MoreCowbell]

I would bet the majority of that list comes from a fatherless household. The ones that were successful(Rawlings, CJ) had a father to help instill some values in them... I know CJ’s passed away not too long before he flipped.

[bigplayslay]

AJ Brown hurt pretty bad especially since he's absolutely killing it. Dude is a drama queen for sure but he would've been the best receiver we've had in a long time. I can't remember if he ever actually committed to state but I would consider him a lean

[wmccgc]

Don't know of another school that seems to build their recruiting strategy on flipping players. Seems like their entire sense of satisfaction begins with who they can flip. Even this year, they flip a couple and they're all excited about it. No other school I know of recruits like this. They take pride in ripping people off, and somehow it makes them feel special.

[ShotgunDawg]

AJ Brown hurt pretty bad especially since he's absolutely killing it. Dude is a drama queen for sure but he would've been the best receiver we've had in a long time. I can't remember if he ever actually committed to state but I would consider him a lean

Not even close. We all assumed AJ would go to MSU but he showed very little interest in doing so.

In hindsight, I could actually make an argument that AJ’s defiance and commitment to doing things his way is a positive characteristic for players to reach their ceiling. Especially at his position

Really the kids we are taking about are the ones that were talked into doing something other than what their initial decision was.

AJ was anything but that.

[Political Hack]

CJ and Brasell would be in the NFL had they went to State. I firmly believe that. The rest would’ve done what they did no matter where they went. Snoop needed to get away from SP. Starkville might would’ve been far enough. CJ needed adult guidance and structure. That’s not Ole Miss’s speciality.

I 100% agree with the general premise though. The kids that flip are less resolved in their determinations and are more likely to flake out.

[bigplayslay]

Not even close. We all assumed AJ would go to MSU but he showed very little interest in doing so.

In hindsight, I could actually make an argument that AJ’s defiance and commitment to doing things his way is a positive characteristic for players to reach their ceiling. Especially at his position

Really the kids we are taking about are the ones that were talked into doing something other than what their initial decision was.

AJ was anything but that.

Ok I gotcha. I figured he was a lean just because he was from Stark, but like I said he's a drama queen and arrogant anyway. He fits right in in up there, there's no doubt about that.

[ShotgunDawg]

CJ and Brasell would be in the NFL had they went to State. I firmly believe that. The rest would’ve done what they did no matter where they went. Snoop needed to get away from SP. Starkville might would’ve been far enough. CJ needed adult guidance and structure. That’s not Ole Miss’s speciality.

I 100% agree with the general premise though. The kids that flip are less resolved in their determinations and are more likely to flake out.

Absolutley agree. Take the Williams kid from Callaway for example.

That kid could have all-SEC potential, but does he have the family foundation to be successful? Does he have the accountability in his life to go to class, work hard, keep his nose clean?

The kid just pulled an oopty oop on his mother for goodness sakes. What are the odds that he makes it?

I wish the kid well, but he’s got a real uphill climb to be successful.

There is far more variables that decided success other than size, speed, and strength.

[ShotgunDawg]

Ok I gotcha. I figured he was a lean just because he was from Stark, but like I said he's a drama queen and arrogant anyway. He fits right in in up there, there's no doubt about that.

Arrogance is a positive factor in predicting future athletic success. It’s why Malik Heath will be a stud

[bigplayslay]

Arrogance is a positive factor in predicting future athletic success. It’s why Malik Heath will be a stud

You are absolutely right. All the greats are good and they know it. AJ seems like a prick which is why he fits in up there haha. Have you seen how some of our defensive guys are loving that Malik Heath is coming? Jonathan Abram on twitter was saying they were gonna have this "special group" in hush mode. I love it because I think it will make our db's better having to go against these guys everyday.

[ShotgunDawg]

You are absolutely right. All the greats are good and they know it. AJ seems like a prick which is why he fits in up there haha. Have you seen how some of our defensive guys are loving that Malik Heath is coming? Jonathan Abram on twitter was saying they were gonna have this "special group" in hush mode. I love it because I think it will make our db's better having to go against these guys everyday.

Yup

And not to keep picking on James Williams, but does it exude arrogance when you sign with a school for early playing time reasons?

Does it exude arrogance when you allow people to talk you out of your commitment & you don't even tell your mother? Was he ashamed, is that why he didn't tell his mother or level with her?

Just some things to consider.

We'll see soon what Fabian Lovett is made of. His decision will tell us a lot about the kid & what the odds are that he succeeds.

[Spiderman]

agree on Rawlings flipping. and his success surprises me. he musta worked his ass off to bump all those 4 & 5 star guys to get that starting role. I think his recruitment is testament to how we do things vs how tsun does things. we saw something in the guy while tsun only was looking to splash the stars around to their fan base. in the end, tsun just couldn't handle us signing "one of theirs" and said wtf, we can't let MSU sign him so lets go ahead and offer.

don't hate Rawlings. hope the kid gets paid on Sunday's one day.

Rawlings ought to kiss Mullen's ass every day. Only one that saw his potential. Offered him early and OM wouldn't look at him. Then they had a guy take the money and run and were left with a spot a couple days before signing day. Then they offer Rawlings. Had State not offered, they wouldn't have had a clue who he was.

That said, I understand his deal, but he still should kiss Mullen's ass.

[Spiderman]

AJ Brown hurt pretty bad especially since he's absolutely killing it. Dude is a drama queen for sure but he would've been the best receiver we've had in a long time. I can't remember if he ever actually committed to state but I would consider him a lean

AJ was never committed to State, and was never going to be, despite many on here saying it was a sure thing.

[Really Clark?]

I think y'all using arrogance completely incorrectly and it's not even close to the importance of confidence in their ability and the drive to get be the best. Arrogance by definition is an exaggeration or over value of your ability. I know a ton of players in college who were arrogant and sucked and I beat regularly. Mainly because they didn't have real confidence in themselves and/or drive to become better. There are many who are arrogant who succeed because the have the other real traits that allow them to be successful but arrogance by itself doesn't guarantee that at all.

[Maroonthirteen]

Don't know of another school that seems to build their recruiting strategy on flipping players. Seems like their entire sense of satisfaction begins with who they can flip. Even this year, they flip a couple and they're all excited about it. No other school I know of recruits like this. They take pride in ripping people off, and somehow it makes them feel special.

My impression also. I think it was The Logan guy on Bounds show Wednesday but.... I heard one of their people saying we flipped this guy here and flipped that guy there..... it was as if the value of the recruit was determined by the school from which they flipped the player. There was absolutely no detail of why the kids changed their minds and choose OM....it was all to give the appearance of superiority to the others schools and led the listeners to believe that as well. They are just a bunch of pretentious lying DBs...

[shoeless joe]

AJ was never committed to State, and was never going to be, despite many on here saying it was a sure thing.

Exactly...he NEVER intended to play for us

[TALL DAWG]

I believe I remember Rawlings dad, a lawyer I believe, getting outed either on this page or SPS
for being Shawn’s dad. He was pumping up his boy before he was signed. Nothing at all against
the boy as I hope he plays on Sundays but...what’s the old saying....10000 lawyers
at the bottom of the ocean is a good start!

[BuckyIsAB****]

That list and what happened to them should tell you all you need to know about what OM is.

[dawgoneyall]

Exactly...he NEVER intended to play for us

Some AH coaches with bearshark loyalties (gone now) got to him early and often. Plus a lot of Benjamins

[5049]

CJ Johnson and Sean Rawlings are the only ones there that would have made a difference anywhere. Johnson flipped because Hud and Diaz both left. Rawlings' situation is well documented in this thread.

And yes, I know Johnson took money, as do most of the good recruits. He still would have ended up at State had those coaches not left. He'd have been a much better player.

[5049]

AJ Brown hurt pretty bad especially since he's absolutely killing it. Dude is a drama queen for sure but he would've been the best receiver we've had in a long time. I can't remember if he ever actually committed to state but I would consider him a lean
Brown was going to Alabama. Ole Miss simply paid him enough not to go.

[Todd4State]

Exactly...he NEVER intended to play for us

That's still on Dan. If his Dad came to Dan looking for money Dan should have told him no but should have directed him to a booster that could have accommodated him without Dan "knowing".

[Spiderman]

CJ Johnson and Sean Rawlings are the only ones there that would have made a difference anywhere. Johnson flipped because Hud and Diaz both left. Rawlings' situation is well documented in this thread.

And yes, I know Johnson took money, as do most of the good recruits. He still would have ended up at State had those coaches not left. He'd have been a much better player.

No he wouldn't have. Not with what all OM did to get him.

He, Tunsil, Treadwell, and Little were the base of the ice berg as far as "heppin"