Research: I Think Shoop is an Elite Hire

[ShotgunDawg]

Here are the stats boys.

The evaluation of Bob Shoop either being an elite hire or a meh hire comes down to your opinion of whether or not Tennessee was a dysfunctional mess when he got there.

Moorhead & Shoop did not work together at Penn State, but James Franklin obviously signed off on this hire & knows what type of DC Shoop is.


https://i.imgur.com/LpKzEpJ.jpg

[TrapGame]

Tennessee was a mess when Shoop got there. I'm sure their is a culture problem that Pruitt better clean up first if he is going to be successful.

[ShotgunDawg]

Shoop's work at Penn State is nothing less than magical

[missouridawg]

If I recall correctly, his 2016 TN defense had a crap ton of injuries very very early in the season to their best players.

17 was a Charlie Foxtrot for other reasons.

[ShotgunDawg]

If I recall correctly, his 2016 TN defense had a crap ton of injuries very very early in the season to their best players.

17 was a Charlie Foxtrot for other reasons.

Yeah, he's an elite DC & this should be a seamless transition from Grantham.

[BeardoMSU]

I'm sold on him as a coach; I trust Moorehead....TN was a dumpster fire.

How is he as a recruiter?

[msstate7]

Read prediction? pain post in other thread. He really put some research in as always. He is the best stat guy we have here

[BuckyIsAB****]

Think we couldve done better

[Prediction? Pain.]

Read prediction? pain post in other thread. He really put some research in as always. He is the best stat guy we have here

Thanks, dude. I probably need to take a break from exhaustively researching and writing about a game instead of, you know, doing that job thing that pays for all his stuff.

Here's the link (http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?62795-Shoops-Stats-at-Tenn&p=856935&viewfull=1#post856935) to my rambling post he's talking about, if anyone's interested in reading. TL;DR version -- I've got some misgivings, but I hope they're ill-founded.

[ShotgunDawg]

Think we couldve done better

Who?

[ShotgunDawg]

Read prediction? pain post in other thread. He really put some research in as always. He is the best stat guy we have here

Yeah, that was a great post.

[ShotgunDawg]

Tennessee beat writer weighs in

https://i.imgur.com/Dvne28K.jpg

[Ari Gold]

Think we couldve done better

Yeah we could have hired a 20 year + guy that had never been a DC before and offer him over a million a year...

Or we hire a guy that has also been a HC before and had multiple successful years as a DC at power 5 schools.. that is spoken extremely highly off throughout college football..

Yeah we screwed up.

[preachermatt83]

The difference between shoop at Penn St and Vandy versus shoop at Tenn is Brent Fry.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Yeah we could have hired a 20 year + guy that had never been a DC before and offer him over a million a year...

Or we hire a guy that has also been a HC before and had multiple successful years as a DC at power 5 schools.. that is spoken extremely highly off throughout college football..

Yeah we screwed up.

As long as his name isn't Peter Sirmon, I'm good!! I trust Moorhead more than any of the knuckleheads on here....

[BuckyIsAB****]

Im just saying if you're having to sell the fact that you did well in lesser conferences its not good. I give it a B im not saying Im flipping out but I think we couldve done better. Maybe we tried, maybe Shoop was his first choice.

[BulldogDX55]

Im just saying if you're having to sell the fact that you did well in lesser conferences its not good. I give it a B im not saying Im flipping out but I think we couldve done better. Maybe we tried, maybe Shoop was his first choice.

Lesser conferences? He had an average defensive rank of 25 AT VANDERBILT. Same conference, worse talent.

[ShotgunDawg]

Im just saying if you're having to sell the fact that you did well in lesser conferences its not good. I give it a B im not saying Im flipping out but I think we couldve done better. Maybe we tried, maybe Shoop was his first choice.

Who is the guy that we could've done better with?

[Tbonewannabe]

Tennessee beat writer weighs in

https://i.imgur.com/Dvne28K.jpg

So the guy lost his starting LBs for both seasons. Saban lost his for the last few games and barely beat us and got his ass kicked by AU. I am surprised with those type of injuries he kept anyone under 50. UT + bad culture + horrible injuries = no one being successful. It seems like people that really know what they are talking about are giving Shoop a pass for the UT years so I will also. Coach JoeMo seems to know what he is doing.

What kind of recruiter is Shoop?

[ShotgunDawg]

What kind of recruiter is Shoop?

Supposedly boarder line elite.

[maroonmania]

Would have preferred to keep Grantham but since that didn't happen I think this is a good hire. The past 2 years aside he is certainly a much more proven, experienced P5 DC than Mullen ever had until Grantham came along.

[TrapGame]

Would have preferred to keep Grantham but since that didn't happen I think this is a good hire. The past 2 years aside he is certainly a much more proven, experienced P5 DC than Mullen ever had until Grantham came along.

If Shoop is just as good as Geoff Collins we'll be ok.

[Really Clark?]

The difference between shoop at Penn St and Vandy versus shoop at Tenn is Brent Fry.

Typo I'm sure it's Pry and he is good as well and they worked well together. But Shoop made the play calls

[Doggie_Style]

I think Shoop is a decent hire but I definitely would not call him 'Elite'. I am glad we have the major pieces of the coaching staff put together as it will help with the early signing period. Good success at Vandy and Penn State but he certainly doesn't come in with momentum after the dumpster fire at Tenn. I also hope his legal issues with Penn State are resolved soon so they won't be a distraction next fall. Again I think this is an OK hire and with JoMo leading the charge Shoop will have a chance at success in Starkville.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Bump, because of Stats.

[Apoplectic]

Here are the stats boys.

The evaluation of Bob Shoop either being an elite hire or a meh hire comes down to your opinion of whether or not Tennessee was a dysfunctional mess when he got there.

Moorhead & Shoop did not work together at Penn State, but James Franklin obviously signed off on this hire & knows what type of DC Shoop is.


https://i.imgur.com/LpKzEpJ.jpg

Can he help our garbage CB and safety play? If so I'm sold.

[BulldogDX55]

Can he help our garbage CB and safety play? If so I'm sold.

His safeties lead the nation in picks at Vandy, so that?s something.

[dickiedawg]

If the last 2 years had never happened everyone here would be creaming his shorts over the hire.
I get that you can?t throw them out, but Coach Joe seems to think the guy?s still got it.

There?s a quote Shoop made when he left PSU that in hindsight I find hysterical. 2951

The year after he left, PSU wins the Big 10 and UT is winning Life Championships.

[MarketingBully]

Here are 2-3 things about the Shoop hire that are true: 1) Moorhead hired Shoop because of his attacking/aggressive style - Moorhead is fulfilling his promise that he stated during his press conference. We wanted Don Brown that was Moorhead’s first choice. I think Shoop might have been in his top three but we know Brown was number 1, 2) Shoop has had elite defenses at major college programs. His defenses at Vandy and Penn State were awesome so we know he has been a successful DC at other stops. Sometimes shit happens that isn’t the DCs fault: look at Manny at Texas, I’m also sure LSU fans had these worries with Kevin Steele when he was hired at LSU, and 3) whoever we hired with the talent and personnel we have was going to have a top five SEC defense. I believe Shoop will at least have a top five SEC defense and I’m good with that. A top five SEC defense will allow us to win a ton of games next year (probably 10+).

Like I have said before, I’m willing to give Coach Moorhead the benefit of the doubt and let him build his staff with whoever he wants. He knows more about what he’s doing then any of the keyboard cowboys who are bitching and complaining at every move he makes.

[Really Clark?]

Here are 2-3 things about the Shoop hire that are true: 1) Moorhead hired Shoop because of his attacking/aggressive style - Moorhead is fulfilling his promise that he stated during his press conference. We wanted Don Brown that was Moorhead’s first choice. I think Shoop might have been in his top three but we know Brown was number 1, 2) Shoop has had elite defenses at major college programs. His defenses at Vandy and Penn State were awesome so we know he has been a successful DC at other stops. Sometimes shit happens that isn’t the DCs fault: look at Manny at Texas, I’m also sure LSU fans had these worries with Kevin Steele when he was hired at LSU, and 3) whoever we hired with the talent and personnel we have was going to have a top five SEC defense. I believe Shoop will at least have a top five SEC defense and I’m good with that. A top five SEC defense will allow us to win a ton of games next year (probably 10+).

Like I have said before, I’m willing to give Coach Moorhead the benefit of the doubt and let him build his staff with whoever he wants. He knows more about what he’s doing then any of the keyboard cowboys who are bitching and complaining at every move he makes.

Don Brown is also one of Shoop's mentors. Feel like Brown gave Moorhead a lot of good info on Shoop as well, may have recommended him.

[starkvegasdawg]

Would have preferred to keep Grantham but since that didn't happen I think this is a good hire. The past 2 years aside he is certainly a much more proven, experienced P5 DC than Mullen ever had until Grantham came along.

I?ll be honest...losing Grantham didn?t ruin my day. I know statistically we put up good numbers, though it seemed our secondary was routinely out of position and unable to cover receivers. I?m hoping Shoop can teach our secondary to stay within shouting distance of the receivers.

[maroonmania]

Here are 2-3 things about the Shoop hire that are true: 1) Moorhead hired Shoop because of his attacking/aggressive style - Moorhead is fulfilling his promise that he stated during his press conference. We wanted Don Brown that was Moorhead’s first choice. I think Shoop might have been in his top three but we know Brown was number 1, 2) Shoop has had elite defenses at major college programs. His defenses at Vandy and Penn State were awesome so we know he has been a successful DC at other stops. Sometimes shit happens that isn’t the DCs fault: look at Manny at Texas, I’m also sure LSU fans had these worries with Kevin Steele when he was hired at LSU, and 3) whoever we hired with the talent and personnel we have was going to have a top five SEC defense. I believe Shoop will at least have a top five SEC defense and I’m good with that. A top five SEC defense will allow us to win a ton of games next year (probably 10+).

Like I have said before, I’m willing to give Coach Moorhead the benefit of the doubt and let him build his staff with whoever he wants. He knows more about what he’s doing then any of the keyboard cowboys who are bitching and complaining at every move he makes.

IMO, the Manny at Texas thing really isn't a good comparison. The Texas D under Manny never made it to the lows that the Tenn D did under Shoop.

[Really Clark?]

IMO, the Manny at Texas thing really isn't a good comparison. The Texas D under Manny never made it to the lows that the Tenn D did under Shoop.

The total defense of 2012-13 Texas was almost the same per game as Tenn this year and would have been ranked very similar. Scoring defense for Tenn 29.1 and 28.8. Scoring defense for Texas 2012-13, 29.2 and 25.8. And Manny was fired during the season so I'm not sure where he was and if it got better or worse but it was BYU running for like 500 yards that got him fired

[Prediction? Pain.]

IMO, the Manny at Texas thing really isn't a good comparison. The Texas D under Manny never made it to the lows that the Tenn D did under Shoop.


The total defense of 2012-13 Texas was almost the same per game as Tenn this year and would have been ranked very similar. Scoring defense for Tenn 29.1 and 28.8. Scoring defense for Texas 2012-13, 29.2 and 25.8. And Manny was fired during the season so I'm not sure where he was and if it got better or worse but it was BYU running for like 500 yards that got him fired

Said this in another thread, but I agree that Diaz at Texas is a bad comparison for Shoop at Tennessee. Diaz' first year there was outstanding. He improved Texas' D across the board over what Muschamp had done the year before. The defense was nothing short of elite -- I'm talking No. 1 or No. 2 in their conference in pass D, rushing D, total D, scoring D, TFLs, and 3rd down D, and top 10 nationally in S&P+. Now, year two was a little down, but only by comparison -- Texas was 32nd nationally in defensive S&P+ that year. They were still top 3 in TFLs, sacks, and 3rd down D, but had regressed to middle of the pack (or a little worse) in other categories. So at worst, they were a slightly above average Power 5 D.

By comparison, Shoop's first year at UT yielded an S&P+ ranking in the 50s and the last-place scoring D in the SEC.

Diaz' and Shoop's final years at Texas and Tennessee are also apples and oranges. In Diaz' last year, he coached only two games -- a win over New Mexico St. (Where the D have up only 7 points) and a road loss against BYU. That's it. Yeah, they stunk on D against BYU, but it was one game. And if giving up 500+ yards rushing in a single game was axe-worthy, what about giving up 400+yards rushing in two consecutive games to a 7-win team and a 4-win team? Because that's what Shoop did in his first year at UT against Kentucky and Missouri.

Honestly, Diaz's worst year as DC since his early days at MTSU may have been his 2015 year at State, when our defense regressed across the board from where Collins had us in 2014.

Some have mentioned Steele's last year at Clemson or Grantham's last year at UGA as comparisons. But I'm not sure they're on point either. Steele's first two defenses at Clemson were solid. So he only had one bad year. And even though he regressed in his third year, it wasn't a complete disaster. And then Grantham's last year at UGA isn't in the same ballpark as either of Shoop's seasons at at UT -- it was a top 40 defense in the S&P+ rankings.

But whatever. Shoop was solid/outstanding at two other recent stops. At UT, his unit suffered debilitating injuries in year 1 and he later admitted to his coaching mistakes. In year 2, he was unfortunate to be part of the worst season in UT football history. So it goes. If he succeeded at Vanderbilt, he can succeed here.