Brian Hadad is in a heated Twitter debate....

[CadaverDawg]

Saying MSU has hit its ceiling by becoming a pretty regular 8 game winner. That we'll never consistently become a 9-10 win team.

Agree? Disagree?

Should MSU fans be happy and content? Is it wrong for MSU fans to want to take another step?

Thoughts?

[AlSwearengen]

I can't argue with that. If lsu, bama, and auburn all went into a period of disarray at the same time, we might win 9 semi consistently. Oh, and if ole miss doesn't start their shit again. That is a lot of stars aligning though.

[TUSK]

Not my fight, but it seems “regular 8 game winner” is a necessary step to be a “9-10 game winner”....

Unless ya sellin Tang...*

[Homedawg]

Saying MSU has hit its ceiling by becoming a pretty regular 8 game winner. That we'll never consistently become a 9-10 win team.

Agree? Disagree?

Should MSU fans be happy and content? Is it wrong for MSU fans to want to take another step?

Thoughts?

I agree w him. But that doesn't mean anyone is happy and content with it, but realistically in this league, it is what it is. Just don't see us being a 9-10 win team every year. But we will do that on occasion and way more often than ever before, which is certainly better than where we've been in history. Remember, there are 13 other teams in this league fighting the same battle, why are we more likely than the next guy? I can think of not one single reason. Not one. Not in football anyway.

[missouridawg]

Being happy in the state of our program and wanting more are not mutually exclusive ideas. The problem that our fan base has, is identifying why we are having success.

Spoiler alert, it?s because of Mullen. We can?t go hire someone better than him. And anyone who thinks we should try to move on from him should have their cat scanned.

Mullen is so important to us because of his ability to develop QBs. QBs are what drives the success of every team and it is paramount for us to have a good developer of QB talent. I got to State in 2000. Fant, York, Connor, Henig, And Lee are the QBs I saw before Mullen got here. Every Mullen QB who started for us is better than the best on that list.

To me, our next steps are to be taken on the recruiting trails. It?s a broken record, but that?s our biggest deficiency right now. If we could somehow find more Stewart Reese?s and prevent Saban from poaching the Knotts, Lashleys, and Raekwon Davis?of the world, that?s how we will take another step. I think Mullen has positioned himself to benefit greatly on the recruiting trail in the coming years. Being able to show kids Dak, Fletcher, Chris Jones, Slay, Gabe, McKinney, and KJ are all his players is a big help. Dak especially, as Dak is giving MSU more marketing than anyone ever has.

If you need proof of our the tide turning in recruiting, look no further than the QB position. KT, Mayden, and Jones are all big time prospects with multiple big time offers. In 2013 , we weren?t signing those guys. But the Dak exposure is giving us an edge for those types.

Now we?ve got to figure out how get better OL, WR, and DBs to campus. Those are the 3 things we desparetly need to see improvement on. And some better depth across the board would be nice.

[Commercecomet24]

I did some research awhile back on 3 coaches who took over historically mediocre programs and become coaching legends. It took Bobby Bowden 11 years before he started consistently winning 10+ games a year. It took LaVell Edwards 8 years to start winning 10+ a year consistently. It took Frank Beamer 12 years to consistently win 10+ a year. Bowden and Beamer both had 2 10+ win seasons during those first 11 and 12 years respectively. LaVell Edwards had zero. Beaner was actually 41-47 after his first 9 years. It takes time to build a national brand type team after decades of mediocrity. Can Dan do what those 3 did. I dont know but I believe he can. Time will tell but hes doing it just like others in the past have done it. Consistent winning seasons, bowl games every year and not taking short cuts. Im sure others will have varying opinions. I did the research just for some comps in similar type situations.

[IMissJack]

Thing about it is, this team really does not have a lot of star players with the "big play" ability. They may win 8 or more this year, should have last year with a kicker, and should be better next year. If we can win 8 with no SEC receivers, and ehhh dbs, there is potential to do more, with just a few more good players.

[DeputyDawg94]

Thing about it is, this team really does not have a lot of star players with the "big play" ability. They may win 8 or more this year, should have last year with a kicker, and should be better next year. If we can win 8 with no SEC receivers, and ehhh dbs, there is potential to do more, with just a few more good players.
This is what is soooo frustrating. A few more players with true SEC abilities would be worth several more wins over Mullen's tenure.

[Dawg61]

Saying MSU has hit its ceiling by becoming a pretty regular 8 game winner. That we'll never consistently become a 9-10 win team.

Agree? Disagree?

Should MSU fans be happy and content? Is it wrong for MSU fans to want to take another step?

Thoughts?

Maybe Hadad should let OM's sanctions come out and let Mullen recruit and have those players actually play before making dumb ass statements like that.

[Commercecomet24]

Maybe Hadad should let OM's sanctions come out and let Mullen recruit and have those players actually play before making dumb ass statements like that.

Yep!

[BrunswickDawg]

So is Hadad lurking this board now? Didn?t we just have a 4 page thread about this very topic yesterday and this morning?
http://http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?60287-Pondering-our-current-football-status-(Long-sorry)

Guess he is getting tired of questions being answered with poot noises or Dales jokes on SPS.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

I'll agree with that..There aren't many teams that can do that. If we can do that and win 10+ every 2 or 3 years, Im good with that.

[DownwardDawg]

Maybe Hadad should let OM's sanctions come out and let Mullen recruit and have those players actually play before making dumb ass statements like that.

This

[BayouDawg]

I'd be fine with consistently winning 8 and having a shot at 10 wins every 4 or 5 years. I'm not fine with lazy ass recruiting that led to our current receiver group. I am also not ok with lazy ass coaching hires like towsend and sirmon. Mullen is a good coach for sure.
He has also left a good bit on the table in a few seasons. I think 2010 was his best overall coached season. Yes I think it was better than 2014.
Another thing I can't wrap my mind around is how we were much more competitive against the big boys in mullen's first 3 years. It's almost like he has lost that chip on his shoulder.

[Dawgology]

Problem here: we aren’t a consistent 8 win team yet...

[Really Clark?]

Problem here: we aren’t a consistent 8 win team yet...

If we win 8 this year his avg will be exactly 8 wins per year after his first year.

[BayouDawg]

Problem here: we aren?t a consistent 8 win team yet...

This is true. If we win 8 this year that'll be 5 8 win seasons in 9 years. That not too bad. We should have won 8 last year as well but a combination of Sirmon and a country club atmosphere prevented that. We should have won 8 in '11 as well. We should have beaten aubie and scar that year. Seven 8 win seasons in 9 years was definitely within our reach. This goes back to my earlier statement about leaving a lot on the table.

[Commercecomet24]

Dan became extremely frustrated with what the idiots up North were doing. He was trying to build a program the right way and was having players bought out from under him left and right with seemingly no repercussions. Right or wrong it took some of his fire and drive. Notice since the investigation commenced he seems to be reinvigorated. Acting more like the Dan of old. Now its up to him to take advantage of this and take our program forward.

[Commercecomet24]

If we win 8 this year his avg will be exactly 8 wins per year after his first year.

Right on!

[BayouDawg]

Dan became extremely frustrated with what the idiots up North were doing. He was trying to build a program the right way and was having players bought out from under him left and right with seemingly no repercussions. Right or wrong it took some of his fire and drive. Notice since the investigation commenced he seems to be reinvigorated. Acting more like the Dan of old. Now its up to him to take advantage of this and take our program forward.

That may very well be true. Freeze didn't make Dan play DWill the majority of the game against south al. I think some of the bear shart shenanigans did affect us on the recruiting trail, but Dan shoulders a good bit of the blame too. He's a grown man and I'm sure he'd tell ya the same.

[Commercecomet24]

That may very well be true. Freeze didn't make Dan play DWill the majority of the game against south al. I think some of the bear shart shenanigans did affect us on the recruiting trail, but Dan shoulders a good bit of the blame too. He's a grown man and I'm sure he'd tell ya the same.

Oh I agree thats why I said right or wrong. But you have to think about what a difference some of those players would have made for us.

[parabrave]

Being happy in the state of our program and wanting more are not mutually exclusive ideas. The problem that our fan base has, is identifying why we are having success.

Spoiler alert, it?s because of Mullen. We can?t go hire someone better than him. And anyone who thinks we should try to move on from him should have their cat scanned.

Mullen is so important to us because of his ability to develop QBs. QBs are what drives the success of every team and it is paramount for us to have a good developer of QB talent. I got to State in 2000. Fant, York, Connor, Henig, And Lee are the QBs I saw before Mullen got here. Every Mullen QB who started for us is better than the best on that list.

To me, our next steps are to be taken on the recruiting trails. It?s a broken record, but that?s our biggest deficiency right now. If we could somehow find more Stewart Reese?s and prevent Saban from poaching the Knotts, Lashleys, and Raekwon Davis?of the world, that?s how we will take another step. I think Mullen has positioned himself to benefit greatly on the recruiting trail in the coming years. Being able to show kids Dak, Fletcher, Chris Jones, Slay, Gabe, McKinney, and KJ are all his players is a big help. Dak especially, as Dak is giving MSU more marketing than anyone ever has.

If you need proof of our the tide turning in recruiting, look no further than the QB position. KT, Mayden, and Jones are all big time prospects with multiple big time offers. In 2013 , we weren?t signing those guys. But the Dak exposure is giving us an edge for those types.

Now we?ve got to figure out how get better OL, WR, and DBs to campus. Those are the 3 things we desparetly need to see improvement on. And some better depth across the board would be nice.

Forgot about Wes Carroll.

[BayouDawg]

Oh I agree thats why I said right or wrong. But you have to think about what a difference some of those players would have made for us.

Oh for sure. I just hope we don't find a way to self implode along with ole miss. Usually when one of the two schools go in the tank, the other is not far behind them. Hopefully we break that tendency and take advantage of his opportunity.

[BayouDawg]

Forgot about Wes Carroll.

I will say if we Dan could have swayed Wes to stay for 09 we may would have won 2 more games that year. Then we may never have seen Relf emerge on the scene though.

[Commercecomet24]

Oh for sure. I just hope we don't find a way to self implode along with ole miss. Usually when one of the two schools go in the tank, the other is not far behind them. Hopefully we break that tendency and take advantage of his opportunity.

Yep. Dan now has every opportunity to take a step up. The door is open for him now its up to him to walk through it. I believe he can. Time will tell.

[Commercecomet24]

I will say if we Dan could have swayed Wes to stay for 09 we may would have won 2 more games that year. Then we may never have seen Relf emerge on the scene though.

I agree. We won 5 with Tyson Lee and Wes was a better fit for Dan system. Right about Relf.

[Hasu Dackds]

Saying MSU has hit its ceiling by becoming a pretty regular 8 game winner. That we'll never consistently become a 9-10 win team.

Agree? Disagree?

Should MSU fans be happy and content? Is it wrong for MSU fans to want to take another step?

Thoughts?

Not much we can do in our current state to produce a program any better than that.

Like I've said many times, we need serious population growth in MS. We need more fans. We need more money. We need whatever the secret sauce is that makes your program most attractive to good football players. We've done it in baseball. The only thing I can think of is that it takes a much bigger commitment to succeed in football.

[BayouDawg]

Not much we can do in our current state to produce a program any better than that.

Like I've said many times, we need serious population growth in MS. We need more fans. We need more money. We need whatever the secret sauce is that makes your program most attractive to good football players. We've done it in baseball. The only thing I can think of is that it takes a much bigger commitment to succeed in football.

Bucky says the secret "sauce" is in the hookers and blow**

[Todd4State]

I bet if you asked MSU fans in 2003 if they thought that MSU could ever become a consistent 8 win team a lot of State fans at that time would have said no and would have been happy to be a 6-7 win team consistently. But here we are pretty much an 8 win program. So, it seems to me I do think it's possible and I think the next logical thing for us to do is become a consistent 8-10 win team. That's the next step for us. Whether we get there or not- I don't know but I think we definitely should try to do everything we can do to get there.

So, how do we do that? I think we have to make recruiting a high priority and make sure that every position is covered. I'll be honest here's what frustrates me right now with Dan- AND NO I DO NOT THINK DAN SHOULD BE FIRED SO NO ONE GO THERE- right now we're basically to me about 2-3 WR's away from maybe being a 5-1 or even 6-0 team. And yes- certainly we could be 4-2 anyway. But there is no question in my mind that if we had filled that one position group we would have at the very least not have been blown out in those two losses. That tells me that we're pretty close from a personnel standpoint. And that's also very encouraging to me. And yes- absolutely if our o-line recruiting was better we would do better in big games as well.

I look at us sort of like the Oakland A's in Moneyball. We can compete and I think we can get to that 10 win level- but we have to do it differently. We have to be on point in recruiting and can't have obvious blunders like no receivers taller than 5'10" for two or three cycles or signing one high school o-lineman in a class. We also have to be on point or ahead of the curve in strength and conditioning as well because it's going to be more difficult for us to build the depth that the bluebloods can. I think we can get a starting group that can compete with them though. I think Dan and Chris Boniol give us an advantage because Dan is an elite QB coach and Boniol is a NFL caliber kicking coach. Those help us level the playing field. We have to also continue to schedule wisely like we are for the most part.

I think being content is kind of a dangerous thing. I think Polk became content- and then things fell apart gradually. That's what usually happens when you become content. I think you should always look for room to improve in whatever you do in life. If we ever win a championship in football, the next thing to do is win another one the next year. It never ends and that's kind of the fun part and challenge for me is that building process or to take on whatever the next challenge is.

I get the impression from reading his stuff on Twitter that he's kind of like- if you don't appreciate what's going on now your never going to be happy. But I think he's also assuming that he's right that it's never going to get any better than 8 wins so why try? I think that's a pretty bad attitude to have.

I don't think it's wrong to want to do better or strive to do better. I don't think it's wrong to be critical of things- that doesn't mean you are unhappy with MSU football or hate Dan or anything like that. It may mean you just want Dan to recruit bigger WR's. That seems pretty realistic, reasonable, and correctable to me. A lot of times being critical just means you are looking to make yourself even better so that you can eventually reach whatever your ceiling is.

I also get the impression that he's making it into if you aren't happy now, then you must want Dan fired. Just because one guy on Twitter thinks Dan should be gone it's not reflective of the entire fan base. Someone did a poll on Twitter about whether they think that Dan should be fired and 96% of the people that responded said no. Our fans can want things to get better and at the same time support Dan and not want to blow the entire thing up.

[Hasu Dackds]

I bet if you asked MSU fans in 2003 if they thought that MSU could ever become a consistent 8 win team a lot of State fans at that time would have said no and would have been happy to be a 6-7 win team consistently. But here we are pretty much an 8 win program. So, it seems to me I do think it's possible and I think the next logical thing for us to do is become a consistent 8-10 win team. That's the next step for us. Whether we get there or not- I don't know but I think we definitely should try to do everything we can do to get there.

So, how do we do that? I think we have to make recruiting a high priority and make sure that every position is covered. I'll be honest here's what frustrates me right now with Dan- AND NO I DO NOT THINK DAN SHOULD BE FIRED SO NO ONE GO THERE- right now we're basically to me about 2-3 WR's away from maybe being a 5-1 or even 6-0 team. And yes- certainly we could be 4-2 anyway. But there is no question in my mind that if we had filled that one position group we would have at the very least not have been blown out in those two losses. That tells me that we're pretty close from a personnel standpoint. And that's also very encouraging to me. And yes- absolutely if our o-line recruiting was better we would do better in big games as well.

I look at us sort of like the Oakland A's in Moneyball. We can compete and I think we can get to that 10 win level- but we have to do it differently. We have to be on point in recruiting and can't have obvious blunders like no receivers taller than 5'10" for two or three cycles or signing one high school o-lineman in a class. We also have to be on point or ahead of the curve in strength and conditioning as well because it's going to be more difficult for us to build the depth that the bluebloods can. I think we can get a starting group that can compete with them though. I think Dan and Chris Boniol give us an advantage because Dan is an elite QB coach and Boniol is a NFL caliber kicking coach. Those help us level the playing field. We have to also continue to schedule wisely like we are for the most part.

I think being content is kind of a dangerous thing. I think Polk became content- and then things fell apart gradually. That's what usually happens when you become content. I think you should always look for room to improve in whatever you do in life. If we ever win a championship in football, the next thing to do is win another one the next year. It never ends and that's kind of the fun part and challenge for me is that building process or to take on whatever the next challenge is.

I get the impression from reading his stuff on Twitter that he's kind of like- if you don't appreciate what's going on now your never going to be happy. But I think he's also assuming that he's right that it's never going to get any better than 8 wins so why try? I think that's a pretty bad attitude to have.

I don't think it's wrong to want to do better or strive to do better. I don't think it's wrong to be critical of things- that doesn't mean you are unhappy with MSU football or hate Dan or anything like that. It may mean you just want Dan to recruit bigger WR's. That seems pretty realistic, reasonable, and correctable to me. A lot of times being critical just means you are looking to make yourself even better so that you can eventually reach whatever your ceiling is.

I also get the impression that he's making it into if you aren't happy now, then you must want Dan fired. Just because one guy on Twitter thinks Dan should be gone it's not reflective of the entire fan base. Someone did a poll on Twitter about whether they think that Dan should be fired and 96% of the people that responded said no. Our fans can want things to get better and at the same time support Dan and not want to blow the entire thing up.

So what's your suggestion?

[Johnson85]

That's idiotic. We can win 9-10 a year. It's not likely, but definitely doable. We'd be there already if we had been spending $25k a year more on illegal benefits.

If he's saying that we should be appreciative of being an 8 win a year program, he's right.

[Todd4State]

That may very well be true. Freeze didn't make Dan play DWill the majority of the game against south al. I think some of the bear shart shenanigans did affect us on the recruiting trail, but Dan shoulders a good bit of the blame too. He's a grown man and I'm sure he'd tell ya the same.

True- but to Dan's credit he has changed a LOT of things too.

Better DC.
Better Special teams coach.
Has been better about not blindly playing upperclassmen over more talented underclassmen.
Has improved recruiting by hiring analysts and dumping Sallach his ex-college roommate and may or may not have even had a come to Jesus meeting with Hevesy about recruiting.
Hasn't been openly looking for a job at the end of the year since 2015.

And the few things that aren't fixed right now appear to have solutions on the way by the 2018 season if not sooner- it looks like Couch is going to be playing more the second half of the year.

[Todd4State]

So what's your suggestion?

Paragraph 3. That's where my answer is.

[Todd4State]

That's idiotic. We can win 9-10 a year. It's not likely, but definitely doable. We'd be there already if we had been spending $25k a year more on illegal benefits.

If he's saying that we should be appreciative of being an 8 win a year program, he's right.

I disagree. I think we would be there if we had recruited a couple of taller WR's and developed them with what we already have on the team.

Cheating is out of the question because it's too risky for us.

We're pretty close- this group absolutely kicked a good LSU team's ass. The raw potential is there.

[BayouDawg]

So what's your suggestion?

He literally spells it out in the 3rd paragraph.
Paraphrasing: we have to avoid pitfalls in recruiting, especially with entire position groups. As a developmental program our margin for error is razor thin when it comes to misses in recruiting.

[confucius say]

Saying MSU has hit its ceiling by becoming a pretty regular 8 game winner. That we'll never consistently become a 9-10 win team.

Agree? Disagree?

Should MSU fans be happy and content? Is it wrong for MSU fans to want to take another step?

Thoughts?

No, he said never be a 10-11 game winner a year consistently. From listening to Brian every day, I think he would tell you 9 a year average is possible though not likely, but 8 is good. I agree.

[Hasu Dackds]

He literally spells it out in the 3rd paragraph.
Paraphrasing: we have to avoid pitfalls in recruiting, especially with entire position groups. As a developmental program our margin for error is razor thin when it comes to misses in recruiting.

Doesn't sound like a solution to me. Sounds like mere survival. I mean yeah, we can't create gaping holes like we have done lately. Depth is key for a developmental program. Duh.

I'm looking for places for us to gain an advantage. JUCOs. A very deep OL corp to compliment a run-based spread offense. A guy hired simply to analyze the clock. A strategic plan for recruiting, maybe based on geography. Branding. Etc.

Todd I do like the emphasis on S&C. Just not sure we can pull it off any better than anyone else.

[Todd4State]

Doesn't sound like a solution to me. Sounds like mere survival. I mean yeah, we can't create gaping holes like we have done lately. Depth is key for a developmental program. Duh.

I'm looking for places for us to gain an advantage. JUCOs. A very deep OL corp to compliment a run-based spread offense. A guy hired simply to analyze the clock. A strategic plan for recruiting, maybe based on geography. Branding. Etc.

Todd I do like the emphasis on S&C. Just not sure we can pull it off any better than anyone else.

I look at us right now and I see a probably 8 win team- losses to A&M and Bama probably with what we are currently. We're talking about going from 8 to 9-10 so my hope is that by patching that group up and doing what we are at the other position groups it will help put us over the top and allow us to be more balanced. Improving the WR will allow us to be able to throw the ball more and cause defenses to back out guys in the box which will allow us to run the ball more easily. A better offense will allow the defense to be better and also more aggressive- which helps them too. I guess that's why I don't understand the can't get to 9-10 win people- we're practically at 8 wins now with a glaring deficiency at WR. If we just fix that we should be able to make a jump.

Any advantage we can get is great- but the main thing is we have to patch up the holes in our current recruiting first which I think will take care of most everything else. JUCO's are getting harder to recruit- it keeps getting more and more difficult to get them eligible and Dan wants them in by January.

I think Dan has the right idea of focusing on Mississippi high school talent and building around that. Especially with 10 four star guys in 2019. That and Ole Miss being on probation will help us out a lot. And my hope is that Ole Miss's probation affects them for at least five years. That will allow Dan time to get that much better in recruiting and a good head start on them and hopefully will allow us to clean up the state. Dan's reputation as a QB guru is a place that gives us an advantage- we have two four star QB's recruited for the next two classes. And Boniol is a kicking guru- and it's helped us land an UA AA kicker and an Army AA punter. I'd go into Louisiana to fill out the rest of the gaps. Lots of population and only one SEC school. We can beat out any of the directional Louisiana schools for talent there and we aren't too terribly far from home. Dak also being from Louisiana helps as well.

[Maroonthirteen]

I agree. ...within the current landscape of college football.

I don't have to be content. The goal each year should a SEC championship. However every State fan should be happy with the job Mullen has done.

[Mimi's Babies]

I agree. ...within the current landscape of college football.

I don't have to be content. The goal each year should a SEC championship. However every State fan should be happy with the job Mullen has done.

If you aren't happy being where we are today, then look back at where we have come from. Much less, the last 5 years of us having to recruit against liars, bribery, $$$$$$/money bags, prostutes, cars, boosters, etc. Psst. Those recruits are still receiving their benefits monthly.

Be happy with what we have for in December it all changes with the 2018 class. Recruited legally and built with MSU PRIDE!!!! The right way... One player at a time. #HAILSTATE.

[fader2103]

.

[Liverpooldawg]

Making MSU a consistent 8 game winner would be a stupendous achievement. It?s amazing how everyone on most MSU boards always harps on being realistic, yet can never bring themselves to accept this FACT.

[Todd4State]

Making MSU a consistent 8 game winner would be a stupendous achievement. It?s amazing how everyone on most MSU boards always harps on being realistic, yet can never bring themselves to accept this FACT.

We're a consistent 8 game winner right now. If you average out our wins and assuming we win 8 this year the average comes out to 8 since 2014. And I think someone the other day said if we win 8 this year Dan would average 8 wins for his career which sounds about right to me.

That's also why it makes no sense to me to say that we can't improve above what we are now when essentially all we have to do is recruit a couple of position groups slightly better than we are now. Position groups that we have recruited reasonably well in the past before Dan and in some cases during Dan's time here.

It would be like Cann not recruiting any pitching and me saying that a SR is the best we could do when logically if we improved pitching we could go to Omaha more consistently.

We have to stop using our history as a crutch to define our ceiling and excuse issues that the coaching staff may have or had in the past. We need to start looking instead at the current situation and the framework of what we are now at this point in the present rather than what we were 30 years ago. The SEC has changed, college football has changed and MSU has changed. Things favor us more now than any other time in our program's history. And it's only going to take some small improvements to make it that much better.

[Liverpooldawg]

We're a consistent 8 game winner right now. If you average out our wins and assuming we win 8 this year the average comes out to 8 since 2014. And I think someone the other day said if we win 8 this year Dan would average 8 wins for his career which sounds about right to me.

That's also why it makes no sense to me to say that we can't improve above what we are now when essentially all we have to do is recruit a couple of position groups slightly better than we are now. Position groups that we have recruited reasonably well in the past before Dan and in some cases during Dan's time here.

It would be like Cann not recruiting any pitching and me saying that a SR is the best we could do when logically if we improved pitching we could go to Omaha more consistently.

We have to stop using our history as a crutch to define our ceiling and excuse issues that the coaching staff may have or had in the past. We need to start looking instead at the current situation and the framework of what we are now at this point in the present rather than what we were 30 years ago. The SEC has changed, college football has changed and MSU has changed. Things favor us more now than any other time in our program's history. And it's only going to take some small improvements to make it that much better.

No we aren’t. We have averaged that since 2014 but that doesn't make you a consistant 8 game winner. Do over a couple of decades and then you are getting there. Who in the heck is using history as a crutch? If you don’t know where you have been you don’t know where you are. That’s the problem a lot of MSU people have, they won’t recognize where we have been so they don’t know where we are. What they are doing is trying to measure us by other people's History. That’s a recipe for frustration and eventual disaster. It’s what has killed MSU for 70 years.

[BB30]

Not much we can do in our current state to produce a program any better than that.

Like I've said many times, we need serious population growth in MS. We need more fans. We need more money. We need whatever the secret sauce is that makes your program most attractive to good football players. We've done it in baseball. The only thing I can think of is that it takes a much bigger commitment to succeed in football.

Dan is 99% of the reason Starkville has grown as much as it has in the last 7-8 years. It makes me laugh when people talk about how much he is paid. He has brought tenfold the amount of money we pay him a year to Starkville and I assure you it isn't because of the academics(not a knock on our school just truth).

[TrapGame]

At this point we are not a consistent 8 win team but we are on the cusp of having an unimaginable run for the next five years.

[MedDawg]

Saying MSU has hit its ceiling by becoming a pretty regular 8 game winner. That we'll never consistently become a 9-10 win team.

Agree? Disagree?

Should MSU fans be happy and content? Is it wrong for MSU fans to want to take another step?

Thoughts?


Georgia has probably been the closest. Not Auburn. Not LSU. Not Tennessee. Not A&M. Not Florida. Certainly not Arkansas, Ole Miss, Missouri, and South Carolina.

[tcdog70]

I think the advantage MSU has is the JUCOs in the State. We need to really utilize that advantage. I see nothing wrong with bringing in a JUCO and red-shirting Him if He is not ready. Hell , we red-shirt HS players--what's the difference. The OL and Wrs are 2 areas that JUCO players can really help us. We have had great success with corner back recruiting from JUCO. I watch Scooba play every game and I have to believe there has been WRs the past few years that are better than what we have now. ICC has one I think is better than Guidry. When Gray played at CO_LIN they were several that were better than Him. i would like to see 6-7 JUCOs every year.

[BrunswickDawg]

Try this on for size -
The only SEC school with 100 wins over the past 10 years is Alabama.

So, a coach averaging 8 wins a year - who twice has won 9 and had a 10 win season puts us right on the cusp of being as good as any other team in the conference other than the perpetual machine of Saban.

[Commercecomet24]

Try this on for size -
The only SEC school with 100 wins over the past 10 years is Alabama.

So, a coach averaging 8 wins a year - who twice has won 9 and had a 10 win season puts us right on the cusp of being as good as any other team in the conference other than the perpetual machine of Saban.

Perspective! Great post!

[Pollodawg]

Try this on for size -
The only SEC school with 100 wins over the past 10 years is Alabama.

So, a coach averaging 8 wins a year - who twice has won 9 and had a 10 win season puts us right on the cusp of being as good as any other team in the conference other than the perpetual machine of Saban.

This.

[Liverpooldawg]

Try this on for size -
The only SEC school with 100 wins over the past 10 years is Alabama.

So, a coach averaging 8 wins a year - who twice has won 9 and had a 10 win season puts us right on the cusp of being as good as any other team in the conference other than the perpetual machine of Saban.

This is what I'm talking about. Some are trying to judge us by Alabama under Saban. That is a recipe for frustration and disaster.

[Todd4State]

No we aren’t. We have averaged that since 2014 but that doesn't make you a consistant 8 game winner. Do over a couple of decades and then you are getting there. Who in the heck is using history as a crutch? If you don’t know where you have been you don’t know where you are. That’s the problem a lot of MSU people have, they won’t recognize where we have been so they don’t know where we are. What they are doing is trying to measure us by other people's History. That’s a recipe for frustration and eventual disaster. It’s what has killed MSU for 70 years.

Since 2009 we have averaged 7.6 wins a year. Add in Croom's last two years and it drops to 7.3. So yeah- we're a consistent 8 win team right now.

You use history as a reason for why we can't do something. Instead of looking at the mistakes and correcting them.

[Todd4State]

Try this on for size -
The only SEC school with 100 wins over the past 10 years is Alabama.

So, a coach averaging 8 wins a year - who twice has won 9 and had a 10 win season puts us right on the cusp of being as good as any other team in the conference other than the perpetual machine of Saban.


Exactly. And if we improve our recruiting just a little bit we can take that next step. Exciting to think about. And again why people who say that we won't ever be anything more than an 8 win team sound ridiculous to me.

[Todd4State]

This is what I'm talking about. Some are trying to judge us by Alabama under Saban. That is a recipe for frustration and disaster.

Not really. 10 wins a year might get you fired at Alabama.

[Liverpooldawg]

Since 2009 we have averaged 7.6 wins a year. Add in Croom's last two years and it drops to 7.3. So yeah- we're a consistent 8 win team right now.

You use history as a reason for why we can't do something. Instead of looking at the mistakes and correcting them.
That not even a decade.

[Liverpooldawg]

Exactly. And if we improve our recruiting just a little bit we can take that next step. Exciting to think about. And again why people who say that we won't ever be anything more than an 8 win team sound ridiculous to me.

You missed his point, entirely.

[Liverpooldawg]

Not really. 10 wins a year might get you fired at Alabama.

Again, you missed the point. We aren't Bama.

[Commercecomet24]

Not really. 10 wins a year might get you fired at Alabama.

Yeah its the reason Saban has said a win now is more of a relief than a joy, because if you lose 1 game people think you suck.

[CadaverDawg]

No, he said never be a 10-11 game winner a year consistently. From listening to Brian every day, I think he would tell you 9 a year average is possible though not likely, but 8 is good. I agree.

My apologies, He did say 10-11, not 9-10, which makes a difference. I thought he said 9-10.

[TrapGame]

Not really. 10 wins a year might get you fired at Alabama.

Alabama's next coach will be filling shoes the size of the Grand Canyon.

[NCDawg]

Speaking of Saban, I heard him say during an interview that when he accepted the Alabama job, he told Mal Moore (AD), flying back on the plane from Miami to Tuscaloosa, that he may not have hired the greatest football coach, but he assured him that nobody would out-recruit him.
I think that is Mullen's primary problem. He does not emphasize recruiting enough, except for his QB signees. He keeps an OL coach out of friendship who is clearly not getting the job done, and he is content with lazy recruiting by his other coaches.
I've heard a lot of people say you can't recruit top talent to Starkville. I don't think Tuscaloosa is any better town than Starkville, so how does Saban do it? Answer-he works his butt off.

[Commercecomet24]

My apologies, He did say 10-11, not 9-10, which makes a difference. I thought he said 9-10.

Dang it, man, you let us down! Off with your head*********

[Homedawg]

Speaking of Saban, I heard him say during an interview that when he accepted the Alabama job, he told Mal Moore (AD), flying back on the plane from Miami to Tuscaloosa, that he may not hired the greatest football coach, but he assured him that nobody would our-recruit him.
I think that is Mullen's primary problem. He does not emphasize recruiting enough, except for his QB signees. He keeps an OL coach out of friendship and who is obviously is not getting the job done, and he is content with lazy recruiting by his other coaches.
I've heard a lot of people say you can't recruit top talent to Starkville. I don't think Tuscaloosa is any better town than Starkville, so how does Saban do it? Answer-he works his butt off.

Agree he does, however, he wasn't this great recruiter until he left east Lansing. The job one has does make a difference. 34-24-1 at mich st. In 5 years.

[Commercecomet24]

Agree he does, however, he wasn't this great recruiter until he left east Lansing. The job one has does make a difference. 34-24-1 at mich st. In 5 years.

Yep. Good point. The resources Saban has is just a tad more than Dan has. Doesn't Saban have about 100 analysts and consultant types that do a lot of the leg work for him?

ETA Not saying Dan can't do better but it's not quite the apples to apples as it appears.

[IMissJack]

So let's say some MSU grad is a billionaire, and tells Keenum here is a check for $100M, I want MSU to compete. Where does that money need to go immediately to bump us up? Because if it is just to pay the same assistant coaches more money, we would not get better results. Where does the money go?

[msudawglb]

I don't have a problem with winning 8 regular season games a year with the occasional 10+. I mean, if you put our team into the SEC East over the last 5 years, we would probably have an average of 9 to 10 regular season wins per year. When you play Bama, Auburn, LSU, A&M, and cheating Ole Miss, it's very difficult to go 3-2 in those games. That's assuming that we have easier competition from the East and no top 20 OOC games. If you add in Georgia from the East, you have to go 4-2 against teams that are probably in the top 20. That's just to get to 10-2. We can do that, but to think that we have the reputation and street cred now to pull in the recruits year after year to pull off that 10-2 record with our completion in the West is just wrong. We can get there and I think that we are heading in the right direction.

[Jarius]

So let's say some MSU grad is a billionaire, and tells Keenum here is a check for $100M, I want MSU to compete. Where does that money need to go immediately to bump us up? Because if it is just to pay the same assistant coaches more money, we would not get better results. Where does the money go?

It would go to the recruiting budget. We would hire a bunch of extra analysts and recruiting type coaches like Alabama. Other than that the money is not going to help all that much in the W/L column. Lots of factors to include hires/fires would determine that. Just look around at our league at the teams with twice the money of us that we beat regularly.

[TrapGame]

So let's say some MSU grad is a billionaire, and tells Keenum here is a check for $100M, I want MSU to compete. Where does that money need to go immediately to bump us up? Because if it is just to pay the same assistant coaches more money, we would not get better results. Where does the money go?

A state of the art recruiting war room staffed by as many people as we can twist the NCAA rules to get. They recruit 24/7. They would be in essence PR and marketing for the team.

[Todd4State]

That not even a decade.

Yeah- it's only 9 years. Enough to get a good idea of where we are and what the results will likely be short term. Want to bet v-cash that we don't win 8 or more this year and next? I also included a couple of Croom's years which take it out to 10- actually 11 to be precise. We're an eight win team now period.

[Todd4State]

Again, you missed the point. We aren't Bama.

No but they are the gold standard for the SEC. And no one is saying that we should be a 10-12 win type of program that should win National Championships. So none of our fans are comparing us to Alabama.

[Todd4State]

It would go to the recruiting budget. We would hire a bunch of extra analysts and recruiting type coaches like Alabama. Other than that the money is not going to help all that much in the W/L column. Lots of factors to include hires/fires would determine that. Just look around at our league at the teams with twice the money of us that we beat regularly.

That would be the best place to put it. We already have upgraded facilities and are starting to compete better with assistant coaches salaries.

[Pipedream]

As has been stated, since Dan's arrival at State (09), there has been 3 teams that win 9+ in the SEC on average-Bama, Georgia, and LSU. In the last 5 years since the addition of A&M, same teams average 9+ wins/year. So, yes it is inconceivable that State could ever be more than an 8 win program over the course of an extended period. As currently constructed we will jump up and have a 10 or more win season (I think it's coming in 2018), but then there's always going to be a backdown similar to 2016 where we are at 6/7 wins to average things out. It's just not feasible for State to be a 9+ win program. We don't have the natural resources to do such. Our supporters and talent pool are too poor (relative to rest of league) for us to be at that level. The only thing that can change that is major industry and population booms within the state. That's literally all that could change that. But Mullen is doing awesome work and it's ok to complain and wish utopian thoughts about the program, just setting up the reality.

[NCDawg]

As has been stated, since Dan's arrival at State (09), there has been 3 teams that win 9+ in the SEC on average-Bama, Georgia, and LSU. In the last 5 years since the addition of A&M, same teams average 9+ wins/year. So, yes it is inconceivable that State could ever be more than an 8 win program over the course of an extended period. As currently constructed we will jump up and have a 10 or more win season (I think it's coming in 2018), but then there's always going to be a backdown similar to 2016 where we are at 6/7 wins to average things out. It's just not feasible for State to be a 9+ win program. We don't have the natural resources to do such. Our supporters and talent pool are too poor (relative to rest of league) for us to be at that level. The only thing that can change that is major industry and population booms within the state. That's literally all that could change that. But Mullen is doing awesome work and it's ok to complain and wish utopian thoughts about the program, just setting up the reality.

Yeah, guess you're probably right. We can wish "utopian thoughts about the program", but in reality we should be satisfied with about 7 or 8 wins and going to some mediocre bowl game. Our supporters and talent pool are too poor, compared to a prosperous state like Alabama, and the rest of the states in the SEC.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Speaking of Saban, I heard him say during an interview that when he accepted the Alabama job, he told Mal Moore (AD), flying back on the plane from Miami to Tuscaloosa, that he may not have hired the greatest football coach, but he assured him that nobody would out-recruit him.
I think that is Mullen's primary problem. He does not emphasize recruiting enough, except for his QB signees. He keeps an OL coach out of friendship who is clearly not getting the job done, and he is content with lazy recruiting by his other coaches.
I've heard a lot of people say you can't recruit top talent to Starkville. I don't think Tuscaloosa is any better town than Starkville, so how does Saban do it? Answer-he works his butt off.

Tuscaloosa is a nicer town than Starkville. Hell, just the simple fact they have all the normal stuff you see in actually well populated places, best buy, target, etc. And not to mention the multiple national championships 9-15 however you count them.

[Dawg61]

I bet if you asked MSU fans in 2003 if they thought that MSU could ever become a consistent 8 win team a lot of State fans at that time would have said no and would have been happy to be a 6-7 win team consistently. But here we are pretty much an 8 win program. So, it seems to me I do think it's possible and I think the next logical thing for us to do is become a consistent 8-10 win team. That's the next step for us. Whether we get there or not- I don't know but I think we definitely should try to do everything we can do to get there.

So, how do we do that? I think we have to make recruiting a high priority and make sure that every position is covered. I'll be honest here's what frustrates me right now with Dan- AND NO I DO NOT THINK DAN SHOULD BE FIRED SO NO ONE GO THERE- right now we're basically to me about 2-3 WR's away from maybe being a 5-1 or even 6-0 team. And yes- certainly we could be 4-2 anyway. But there is no question in my mind that if we had filled that one position group we would have at the very least not have been blown out in those two losses. That tells me that we're pretty close from a personnel standpoint. And that's also very encouraging to me. And yes- absolutely if our o-line recruiting was better we would do better in big games as well.

I look at us sort of like the Oakland A's in Moneyball. We can compete and I think we can get to that 10 win level- but we have to do it differently. We have to be on point in recruiting and can't have obvious blunders like no receivers taller than 5'10" for two or three cycles or signing one high school o-lineman in a class. We also have to be on point or ahead of the curve in strength and conditioning as well because it's going to be more difficult for us to build the depth that the bluebloods can. I think we can get a starting group that can compete with them though. I think Dan and Chris Boniol give us an advantage because Dan is an elite QB coach and Boniol is a NFL caliber kicking coach. Those help us level the playing field. We have to also continue to schedule wisely like we are for the most part.

I think being content is kind of a dangerous thing. I think Polk became content- and then things fell apart gradually. That's what usually happens when you become content. I think you should always look for room to improve in whatever you do in life. If we ever win a championship in football, the next thing to do is win another one the next year. It never ends and that's kind of the fun part and challenge for me is that building process or to take on whatever the next challenge is.

I get the impression from reading his stuff on Twitter that he's kind of like- if you don't appreciate what's going on now your never going to be happy. But I think he's also assuming that he's right that it's never going to get any better than 8 wins so why try? I think that's a pretty bad attitude to have.

I don't think it's wrong to want to do better or strive to do better. I don't think it's wrong to be critical of things- that doesn't mean you are unhappy with MSU football or hate Dan or anything like that. It may mean you just want Dan to recruit bigger WR's. That seems pretty realistic, reasonable, and correctable to me. A lot of times being critical just means you are looking to make yourself even better so that you can eventually reach whatever your ceiling is.

I also get the impression that he's making it into if you aren't happy now, then you must want Dan fired. Just because one guy on Twitter thinks Dan should be gone it's not reflective of the entire fan base. Someone did a poll on Twitter about whether they think that Dan should be fired and 96% of the people that responded said no. Our fans can want things to get better and at the same time support Dan and not want to blow the entire thing up.


True- but to Dan's credit he has changed a LOT of things too.

Better DC.
Better Special teams coach.
Has been better about not blindly playing upperclassmen over more talented underclassmen.
Has improved recruiting by hiring analysts and dumping Sallach his ex-college roommate and may or may not have even had a come to Jesus meeting with Hevesy about recruiting.
Hasn't been openly looking for a job at the end of the year since 2015.

And the few things that aren't fixed right now appear to have solutions on the way by the 2018 season if not sooner- it looks like Couch is going to be playing more the second half of the year.


I disagree. I think we would be there if we had recruited a couple of taller WR's and developed them with what we already have on the team.

Cheating is out of the question because it's too risky for us.

We're pretty close- this group absolutely kicked a good LSU team's ass. The raw potential is there.


I look at us right now and I see a probably 8 win team- losses to A&M and Bama probably with what we are currently. We're talking about going from 8 to 9-10 so my hope is that by patching that group up and doing what we are at the other position groups it will help put us over the top and allow us to be more balanced. Improving the WR will allow us to be able to throw the ball more and cause defenses to back out guys in the box which will allow us to run the ball more easily. A better offense will allow the defense to be better and also more aggressive- which helps them too. I guess that's why I don't understand the can't get to 9-10 win people- we're practically at 8 wins now with a glaring deficiency at WR. If we just fix that we should be able to make a jump.

Any advantage we can get is great- but the main thing is we have to patch up the holes in our current recruiting first which I think will take care of most everything else. JUCO's are getting harder to recruit- it keeps getting more and more difficult to get them eligible and Dan wants them in by January.

I think Dan has the right idea of focusing on Mississippi high school talent and building around that. Especially with 10 four star guys in 2019. That and Ole Miss being on probation will help us out a lot. And my hope is that Ole Miss's probation affects them for at least five years. That will allow Dan time to get that much better in recruiting and a good head start on them and hopefully will allow us to clean up the state. Dan's reputation as a QB guru is a place that gives us an advantage- we have two four star QB's recruited for the next two classes. And Boniol is a kicking guru- and it's helped us land an UA AA kicker and an Army AA punter. I'd go into Louisiana to fill out the rest of the gaps. Lots of population and only one SEC school. We can beat out any of the directional Louisiana schools for talent there and we aren't too terribly far from home. Dak also being from Louisiana helps as well.


We're a consistent 8 game winner right now. If you average out our wins and assuming we win 8 this year the average comes out to 8 since 2014. And I think someone the other day said if we win 8 this year Dan would average 8 wins for his career which sounds about right to me.

That's also why it makes no sense to me to say that we can't improve above what we are now when essentially all we have to do is recruit a couple of position groups slightly better than we are now. Position groups that we have recruited reasonably well in the past before Dan and in some cases during Dan's time here.

It would be like Cann not recruiting any pitching and me saying that a SR is the best we could do when logically if we improved pitching we could go to Omaha more consistently.

We have to stop using our history as a crutch to define our ceiling and excuse issues that the coaching staff may have or had in the past. We need to start looking instead at the current situation and the framework of what we are now at this point in the present rather than what we were 30 years ago. The SEC has changed, college football has changed and MSU has changed. Things favor us more now than any other time in our program's history. And it's only going to take some small improvements to make it that much better.


Since 2009 we have averaged 7.6 wins a year. Add in Croom's last two years and it drops to 7.3. So yeah- we're a consistent 8 win team right now.

You use history as a reason for why we can't do something. Instead of looking at the mistakes and correcting them.


Exactly. And if we improve our recruiting just a little bit we can take that next step. Exciting to think about. And again why people who say that we won't ever be anything more than an 8 win team sound ridiculous to me.


Not really. 10 wins a year might get you fired at Alabama.


Yeah- it's only 9 years. Enough to get a good idea of where we are and what the results will likely be short term. Want to bet v-cash that we don't win 8 or more this year and next? I also included a couple of Croom's years which take it out to 10- actually 11 to be precise. We're an eight win team now period.


No but they are the gold standard for the SEC. And no one is saying that we should be a 10-12 win type of program that should win National Championships. So none of our fans are comparing us to Alabama.


That would be the best place to put it. We already have upgraded facilities and are starting to compete better with assistant coaches salaries.

https://media.cntraveler.com/photos/568ae16e67dc82253d9f72cf/master/w_775,c_limit/Stockholm-Public-Library-Alamy.jpg

[Pipedream]

Yeah, guess you're probably right. We can wish "utopian thoughts about the program", but in reality we should be satisfied with about 7 or 8 wins and going to some mediocre bowl game. Our supporters and talent pool are too poor, compared to a prosperous state like Alabama, and the rest of the states in the SEC.

Averaging 8 wins/year over a 5-10 year stretch would put you in the top half of the league with the 13th largest budget, smallest populated town, poorest state in the conference. I love the school. I bleed Maroon, but these are just the facts. Check the waiting list on club seats/boxes for Bama games. The sheer number of sidewalk Bama fans could fill our stadium every Saturday. They have almost a hundred years of winning, championship football. The best we can achieve is what we are currently achieving. Win 8/year and when the opportunity presents itself, we have to strike. We almost did it in 2014 and look well positioned to give it another run in 2018. If winning 10 games once every 4 years while hanging around 8/year average doesn't satisfy you, then you're following the wrong school.

[BrunswickDawg]

There is one other way that we can continue to build toward a more regular occurrence of us being a 9-11 win team (yes I'm going up a notch) - a continued, and long running ineptitude by the 2 other D1 programs in Mississippi. Southern Miss is a complete afterthought now because of CUSA and their facilities. They have dropped from a respectable program to a stepping stone in a very short timeframe. That has helped our in-state recruiting depth. If Ole Miss gets hit hard, makes a Croomtastic hire, and wanders in the woods for the next 5-10 years, it could set us up to close the recruiting gap some. If the Network is neutered and is no longer buying out top talent, those 3-4 players a year could make a huge difference. We may already be seeing that in our next 2 recruiting classes. This year we are dominating the top in-state talent, next year looks good. String together 5-6 straight years of that and it could change the face of our program.

[NCDawg]

Averaging 8 wins/year over a 5-10 year stretch would put you in the top half of the league with the 13th largest budget, smallest populated town, poorest state in the conference. I love the school. I bleed Maroon, but these are just the facts. Check the waiting list on club seats/boxes for Bama games. The sheer number of sidewalk Bama fans could fill our stadium every Saturday. They have almost a hundred years of winning, championship football. The best we can achieve is what we are currently achieving. Win 8/year and when the opportunity presents itself, we have to strike. We almost did it in 2014 and look well positioned to give it another run in 2018. If winning 10 games once every 4 years while hanging around 8/year average doesn't satisfy you, then you're following the wrong school.

With all due respect to your defeatist opinion, I totally disagree. I realize, however, that we have a lot of fans, probably most of our fans, that think like you do.

[Pipedream]

With all due respect to your defeatist opinion, I totally disagree. I realize, however, that we have a lot of fans, probably most of our fans, that think like you do.

Label it what you will, but it's realistic and factual. A&M and Florida have budgets almost twice our size with two of the best recruiting bases in the entire country and even they haven't averaged 9 wins/ year the last 5-10 years. No amount of bootstrap pulling on State fans parts is going to change the natural landscape nor demographics of the region.

[Jarius]

With all due respect to your defeatist opinion, I totally disagree. I realize, however, that we have a lot of fans, probably most of our fans, that think like you do.

What do you think we need to do in order to do more than that? We are in year 9 of Mullen and it is clear that this is what he is. What should be done differently?

[NCDawg]

What do you think we need to do in order to do more than that? We are in year 9 of Mullen and it is clear that this is what he is. What should be done differently?

Um, I think we discussed this in previous discussions in this thread. At least to my opinion. But probably nothing. It is apparently the consensus opinion that we can't do any better than what we're doing.

[Dawgology]

I skipped over the previous 5 pages to follow up on my original post. We aren't a consistent 8 win team yet but we are damn close.

Dan came in to a team that was a consistent 5 win team. We were cellar dwellers and he has built this program up to being a year or so away from hitting that yearly 8 win bench mark. There is no reason for me to believe that he will stop building there. In 2004 I would have never believed that we would have a football program that averaged 8 wins a year and 8 straight bowl games yet here we are. He did it. And it hasn't been easy...at all.

Now we see if he takes the next step. He's building a foundational legacy here. It takes a lot of time to move from the bottom of the heap, especially with the level of competition in this conference, but he's doing it. And he's doing it in such a way that it's not a flash in the pan.

[Commercecomet24]

I skipped over the previous 5 pages to follow up on my original post. We aren't a consistent 8 win team yet but we are damn close.

Dan came in to a team that was a consistent 5 win team. We were cellar dwellers and he has built this program up to being a year or so away from hitting that yearly 8 win bench mark. There is no reason for me to believe that he will stop building there. In 2004 I would have never believed that we would have a football program that averaged 8 wins a year and 8 straight bowl games yet here we are. He did it. And it hasn't been easy...at all.

Now we see if he takes the next step. He's building a foundational legacy here. It takes a lot of time to move from the bottom of the heap, especially with the level of competition in this conference, but he's doing it. And he's doing it in such a way that it's not a flash in the pan.

Spot on! Bravo, sir!

[Todd4State]

There is one other way that we can continue to build toward a more regular occurrence of us being a 9-11 win team (yes I'm going up a notch) - a continued, and long running ineptitude by the 2 other D1 programs in Mississippi. Southern Miss is a complete afterthought now because of CUSA and their facilities. They have dropped from a respectable program to a stepping stone in a very short timeframe. That has helped our in-state recruiting depth. If Ole Miss gets hit hard, makes a Croomtastic hire, and wanders in the woods for the next 5-10 years, it could set us up to close the recruiting gap some. If the Network is neutered and is no longer buying out top talent, those 3-4 players a year could make a huge difference. We may already be seeing that in our next 2 recruiting classes. This year we are dominating the top in-state talent, next year looks good. String together 5-6 straight years of that and it could change the face of our program.

Great point about Ole Miss and USM. USM's glory days were in the early 1980's when they were an independent along with people like Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn State and etc. Playing them and beating a couple of pretty good USM teams was smart on our part- we demonstrated to recruits the difference between the two of us.

We have a chance to take a huge step forward with Ole Miss likely going on probation no matter how well they handle it. Between Dak and hopefully stringing together 5-6 really good seasons it could change the perception of MSU football for awhile.

[Todd4State]

Label it what you will, but it's realistic and factual. A&M and Florida have budgets almost twice our size with two of the best recruiting bases in the entire country and even they haven't averaged 9 wins/ year the last 5-10 years. No amount of bootstrap pulling on State fans parts is going to change the natural landscape nor demographics of the region.

Just because Florida has more resources and then mismanaged their football program the past 5-10 years...or Tennessee...or Auburn or whoever else that doesn't define OUR floor and ceiling and it doesn't mean that we can't get to 8-10 wins a year if we manage OUR situation well. All it means is that those schools mismanaged themselves even though their overall ceilings are higher than ours.

[Bulldogg31]

Being happy in the state of our program and wanting more are not mutually exclusive ideas. The problem that our fan base has, is identifying why we are having success.

Spoiler alert, it?s because of Mullen. We can?t go hire someone better than him. And anyone who thinks we should try to move on from him should have their cat scanned.

Mullen is so important to us because of his ability to develop QBs. QBs are what drives the success of every team and it is paramount for us to have a good developer of QB talent. I got to State in 2000. Fant, York, Connor, Henig, And Lee are the QBs I saw before Mullen got here. Every Mullen QB who started for us is better than the best on that list.

To me, our next steps are to be taken on the recruiting trails. It?s a broken record, but that?s our biggest deficiency right now. If we could somehow find more Stewart Reese?s and prevent Saban from poaching the Knotts, Lashleys, and Raekwon Davis?of the world, that?s how we will take another step. I think Mullen has positioned himself to benefit greatly on the recruiting trail in the coming years. Being able to show kids Dak, Fletcher, Chris Jones, Slay, Gabe, McKinney, and KJ are all his players is a big help. Dak especially, as Dak is giving MSU more marketing than anyone ever has.

If you need proof of our the tide turning in recruiting, look no further than the QB position. KT, Mayden, and Jones are all big time prospects with multiple big time offers. In 2013 , we weren?t signing those guys. But the Dak exposure is giving us an edge for those types.

Now we?ve got to figure out how get better OL, WR, and DBs to campus. Those are the 3 things we desparetly need to see improvement on. And some better depth across the board would be nice.

Possibly the best post I've seen on ED in a long time.

Mullen is literally building this program from the ground up. If we let him do it right for another several years we may never have to go back to 3 or 4 wins a year again.

It is extremely difficult to make a perfect coaching hire. Look at all the disasters out there at premier schools like Tennessee, Florida, Texas, LSU, etc.

We made a great hire with Mullen. Enjoy it and get behind him.

[NCDawg]

Possibly the best post I've seen on ED in a long time.

Mullen is literally building this program from the ground up. If we let him do it right for another several years we may never have to go back to 3 or 4 wins a year again.

It is extremely difficult to make a perfect coaching hire. Look at all the disasters out there at premier schools like Tennessee, Florida, Texas, LSU, etc.

We made a great hire with Mullen. Enjoy it and get behind him.

Getting blown out by 2 SEC teams 80-13 this year isn't exactly making a whole lot of progress in my opinion. But, as some people on this board say, maybe we can get to 7 or 8 wins this year and everything will be great.

[Goldendawg]

5 and 7 last year with the UM stomping bringing a lot of forgiveness. We barely beat Miami of Ohio of all people to go 6 and 7. Don't forget Holloway up the middle as a feature back either. We now beat our OOC opponents regularly, the set East opponent usually, and some other West also rans. We are still far from beating Ga. and Auburn regularly. (And bama is ruining the league)

[Bodaski]

Saying MSU has hit its ceiling by becoming a pretty regular 8 game winner. That we'll never consistently become a 9-10 win team.

Agree? Disagree?

Should MSU fans be happy and content? Is it wrong for MSU fans to want to take another step?

Thoughts?

As long as we consistently recruit mostly 3* and a few 4* guys I don't think you should expect anything more and if we continue down this path and it looks like we are, then I have to agree with Brian as well. I think we get about as much as we can get out of our talent each year. We may slip up and find an acorn here and there some years, but if we continue to do what we have been doing, why would it change?

[Bulldogg31]

As long as we consistently recruit mostly 3* and a few 4* guys I don't think you should expect anything more and if we continue down this path and it looks like we are, then I have to agree with Brian as well. I think we get about as much as we can get out of our talent each year. We may slip up and find an acorn here and there some years, but if we continue to do what we have been doing, why would it change?

I've got a good friend who is a bigtime Georgia guy. We were together last weekend and got into a discussion about State and why we didn't compete better with UGa. I told him Mississippi just doesn't produce enough top-level talent every year to support one D1 power, much less 2 (or 4 if you count LSU and Bama cherry picking off the top.) So we looked it up.

This year (from memory) Mississippi has zero 5-star guys, and three or four guys who are 4-stars. By contrast, Georgia has four 5-star kids, and every kid in their top 30 was four-star or better.

I'll bet none of those Georgia kids grew up hoping to play for Mississippi State. We are absolutely fighting an uphill battle every single year. We will never be a Top 10 recruiter unless we go the Ole Miss route which we all know will send us back to purgatory.

Mullen's doing a very good job. Let the man keep building and improving our reputation by developing NFL players and I'm betting more kids WILL grow up wanting to play for us.

[Jarius]

Um, I think we discussed this in previous discussions in this thread. At least to my opinion. But probably nothing. It is apparently the consensus opinion that we can't do any better than what we're doing.

The only thing I've seen you do in This thread is make condescending comments and offer up very few if any solutions to what you view to be the problem. If you're going to bitch, at least have a solution for us all to hear. You think Dan is a lazy recruiter and has lazy recruiters on his staff. I don't agree that he is in any way lazy, but let's say he is. What would you do about it if you were Mullen's boss?

[NCDawg]

The only thing I've seen you do in This thread is make condescending comments and offer up very few if any solutions to what you view to be the problem. If you're going to bitch, at least have a solution for us all to hear. You think Dan is a lazy recruiter and has lazy recruiters on his staff. I don't agree that he is in any way lazy, but let's say he is. What would you do about it if you were Mullen's boss?

Somebody said Mullen had a "come to Jesus " talk with Hevesy about his not very good recruiting of offensive linemen. I doubt this happened, but if it did, that's a good start. I don't suppose it's too much Cohen can do about Mullen's recruiting. He can mention to him that we don't think we're getting in a whole lot of talent on the OL,W/R, or D/B's, but Mullen is locked into his contract and he is judged primarily on is his W/L record, as are all coaches. Anyway, most State fans appear to be reconciled that we are not going to win the SEC anytime soon, so I guess it's ok. If you consider this a condescending remark, so be it.

[Homedawg]

Getting blown out by 2 SEC teams 80-13 this year isn't exactly making a whole lot of progress in my opinion. But, as some people on this board say, maybe we can get to 7 or 8 wins this year and everything will be great.

While the 2 games were beyond disappointing and not acceptable, what are you going to do? Run off the second winningest coach at the school ever, that's led us to seven straight bowls and taken us from utter oblivion? Sounds great, sure lots of people will run to our job too w head coaching experience. And whether most on here like it or not, our job is looked at as a really poor one across the country. Yeah, we will pay, but in terms of success, it's tough. Whether that's perception or reality doesn't make two shits, just a fact.

[Todd4State]

The only thing I've seen you do in This thread is make condescending comments and offer up very few if any solutions to what you view to be the problem. If you're going to bitch, at least have a solution for us all to hear. You think Dan is a lazy recruiter and has lazy recruiters on his staff. I don't agree that he is in any way lazy, but let's say he is. What would you do about it if you were Mullen's boss?

Regardless of whether I think Dan is lazy as a recruiter or not...

I think my honest response would be to ask him what we need to do to recruit better and listen to what he has to say. If it's needing more money in the recruiting budget I would focus on getting him that. If he wants to get different assistants that are better recruiters but he needs MSU to pay better salaries to attract those types of coaches I would do it. If he needs more recruiting assistants I would make that happen for him. Or whatever else he needs to recruit better.

If I, as his boss, were on some kind of NCAA committee and he thought a certain rule being passed would help MSU I would do everything in my power to get that rule passed.

As a boss, I would do everything in my power to try to give him everything he needed to succeed at in recruiting within NCAA rules.

And as far as the rules and recruiting- I think the early signing period and the hard 25 signee cap are both going to help us out immensely. At the very least I think Dan is a good evaluator of talent. The early signing period is going to help him know where we stand with certain recruits. And it will allow us to see where our needs are, it will allow us to not have to worry about someone like Alabama signing someone at the last minute as much, and it will allows us to place all of our attention on the guys that uncommitted. The 25 signee rule is going to eliminate counting back- meaning some coaches on our staff can't say "Oh, well let's just pool up those spots for next year and only sign one high school o-lineman." It makes the spots more valuable- and therefore not using one is almost wasting a spot.

[Todd4State]

Somebody said Mullen had a "come to Jesus " talk with Hevesy about his not very good recruiting of offensive linemen. I doubt this happened, but if it did, that's a good start. I don't suppose it's too much Cohen can do about Mullen's recruiting. He can mention to him that we don't think we're getting in a whole lot of talent on the OL,W/R, or D/B's, but Mullen is locked into his contract and he is judged primarily on is his W/L record, as are all coaches. Anyway, most State fans appear to be reconciled that we are not going to win the SEC anytime soon, so I guess it's ok. If you consider this a condescending remark, so be it.

I think Cohen is the opposite- and he loves football just like Keenum loves it. I don't think they are going to let any coach slack around. Obviously I think we all agree that firing Dan for not recruiting o-linemen would be extreme. I do think what they would do if they were unhappy about enough things they would just not give him an extension like after 2015. And if he fixes those things I think they would go ahead and give it to him- like after 2016.

And I'll say this about Dan and I was wrong about this with him- he seems like he does and is willing to adjust. I don't think he is nearly as stubborn as many make him out to be. He has mostly given up coaching special teams and hired a good kicking coach, he demoted Sallach which a lot of people never thought would happen in order to get Looney who is a better recruiter and coach. Dan hired Grantham after we told him we would pay whatever we needed. So, I don't know if he had a come to Jesus talk with Hevesy or not- but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if he did. To me it looks like our o-line recruiting is starting to pick up for the first time since 2009 so whatever happened it appears to be working.

[NCDawg]

I think Cohen is the opposite- and he loves football just like Keenum loves it. I don't think they are going to let any coach slack around. Obviously I think we all agree that firing Dan for not recruiting o-linemen would be extreme. I do think what they would do if they were unhappy about enough things they would just not give him an extension like after 2015. And if he fixes those things I think they would go ahead and give it to him- like after 2016.

And I'll say this about Dan and I was wrong about this with him- he seems like he does and is willing to adjust. I don't think he is nearly as stubborn as many make him out to be. He has mostly given up coaching special teams and hired a good kicking coach, he demoted Sallach which a lot of people never thought would happen in order to get Looney who is a better recruiter and coach. Dan hired Grantham after we told him we would pay whatever we needed. So, I don't know if he had a come to Jesus talk with Hevesy or not- but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if he did. To me it looks like our o-line recruiting is starting to pick up for the first time since 2009 so whatever happened it appears to be working.

Good post and I really hope you are correct.

[Jarius]

On that note, the biggest thing I believe he has wanted for years is an even playing field in this state. Well he has that now and more and you can see the results in recruiting. Now is the time for a jump if one is ever going to happen. We can own recruiting in this state for the next half decade and if we play our cards right we can elevate our program to where it is viewed differently nationally.


Regardless of whether I think Dan is lazy as a recruiter or not...

I think my honest response would be to ask him what we need to do to recruit better and listen to what he has to say. If it's needing more money in the recruiting budget I would focus on getting him that. If he wants to get different assistants that are better recruiters but he needs MSU to pay better salaries to attract those types of coaches I would do it. If he needs more recruiting assistants I would make that happen for him. Or whatever else he needs to recruit better.

If I, as his boss, were on some kind of NCAA committee and he thought a certain rule being passed would help MSU I would do everything in my power to get that rule passed.

As a boss, I would do everything in my power to try to give him everything he needed to succeed at in recruiting within NCAA rules.

And as far as the rules and recruiting- I think the early signing period and the hard 25 signee cap are both going to help us out immensely. At the very least I think Dan is a good evaluator of talent. The early signing period is going to help him know where we stand with certain recruits. And it will allow us to see where our needs are, it will allow us to not have to worry about someone like Alabama signing someone at the last minute as much, and it will allows us to place all of our attention on the guys that uncommitted. The 25 signee rule is going to eliminate counting back- meaning some coaches on our staff can't say "Oh, well let's just pool up those spots for next year and only sign one high school o-lineman." It makes the spots more valuable- and therefore not using one is almost wasting a spot.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think Cohen is the opposite- and he loves football just like Keenum loves it. I don't think they are going to let any coach slack around. Obviously I think we all agree that firing Dan for not recruiting o-linemen would be extreme. I do think what they would do if they were unhappy about enough things they would just not give him an extension like after 2015. And if he fixes those things I think they would go ahead and give it to him- like after 2016.

And I'll say this about Dan and I was wrong about this with him- he seems like he does and is willing to adjust. I don't think he is nearly as stubborn as many make him out to be. He has mostly given up coaching special teams and hired a good kicking coach, he demoted Sallach which a lot of people never thought would happen in order to get Looney who is a better recruiter and coach. Dan hired Grantham after we told him we would pay whatever we needed. So, I don't know if he had a come to Jesus talk with Hevesy or not- but it honestly wouldn't surprise me if he did. To me it looks like our o-line recruiting is starting to pick up for the first time since 2009 so whatever happened it appears to be working.

I still think a lot of that was Loafers not wanting to stretch the budget. Notice how a lot of Dan?s ?lack of fire? as some call it dovetailed with Byrne leaving and ?reignites? with Cohen. Loafers was cheap. I still think that is why Dan didn?t get extended after 2015 - but got more off field staff and some raises for on field staff (as we hired new guys). Loafers would only pay for Dan or more assistant money not both. It?s hard to get things done or want to get things done if you feel like you don?t have what you need to compete. I think Scott had just enough LT bred into him not to want to go above what he thought the budget should be.

[Dawgology]

Our biggest problem is splitting talent between 3 state schools and then our proximity to Bama and LSU. With the downturn of USM and tsun's impending implosion we are set to make a move that could lock this state up for MSU for the forseeable future. I hope we do because IF we can then the sky will be the limit.

ETA: with a couple more wins over LSU like the one this year we at least won't have to worry about them cherry picking too much either.

[Jack Lambert]

This is true. If we win 8 this year that'll be 5 8 win seasons in 9 years. That not too bad. We should have won 8 last year as well but a combination of Sirmon and a country club atmosphere prevented that. We should have won 8 in '11 as well. We should have beaten aubie and scar that year. Seven 8 win seasons in 9 years was definitely within our reach. This goes back to my earlier statement about leaving a lot on the table.

Should have beaten LSU his first year. "Just give the ball to Dixon"

[BayouDawg]

Should have beaten LSU his first year. "Just give the ball to Dixon"

Yep that's an area where I think we can improve on to increase our win totals. Taking advantage of the opportunities in close games. There have been about 12 of them in *******'s tenure that we have come out on the wrong end. If we can improve in those situations and get those wins when the opportunity arises, we could approach the 9 win average.