The US....

[Liverpooldawg]

just failed to qualify for the World Cup. Disgraceful.

[StoneDawg]

No one cares

[Liverpooldawg]

No one cares

I don't care who cares, just posting. Most other boards have a thread on it.

[ShotgunDawg]

That's what we get for hiring Bruce Arena

It was lazy & about like Polk 2.

Of all the soccer coaches in America, I just have trouble believing that they can't find a legit coach.

[Outside Dawg]

I care. They should be embarrassed. One of the worst nights in US Soccer history. Fire Bruce.

[Political Hack]

I don't know anything about soccer, but there isn't a sport on the planet this country shouldn't be able to play for a world championship in. I do know that.

[Liverpooldawg]

I care. They should be embarrassed. One of the worst nights in US Soccer history. Fire Bruce.

And fire whoever hired him. Any player who has national team aspirations needs to be in Europe. I'd rather see them playing for Brentford or even Southend that playing the MLS. MLS is fun to watch, but the competition is no better than third tier in Europe. It sucks but it is what it is.

[BrunswickDawg]

USSF needs to get in line with the rest of the world if we want to compete -
1) force MLS to alter their schedule to August to June
2) create a real pyramid in the US by breaking MLS into a Premier and 1st Division, assign NASL and USL to next levels
3) start relegation

[ShotgunDawg]

And fire whoever hired him. Any player who has national team aspirations needs to be in Europe. I'd rather see them playing for Brentford or even Southend that playing the MLS. MLS is fun to watch, but the competition is no better than third tier in Europe. It sucks but it is what it is.

This

USNT needs to take hiring a new coach seriously. The time for lazy hires is over. Soccer in this country has come way to far over the past 20 years to make lazy, nostalgia hires.

Whoever hired Arena should be fired with Arena & the USNT needs to go far & wide to find a Saban/Belichick type personality that can take this program to the next level.

Perhaps in the end, this will be best for the national team as the embarrassment will force much needed changes.

[Liverpooldawg]

USSF needs to get in line with the rest of the world if we want to compete -
1) force MLS to alter their schedule to August to June
2) create a real pyramid in the US by breaking MLS into a Premier and 1st Division, assign NASL and USL to next levels
3) start relegation

Yes to all this

[Perpetual Underachiever]

Welp, we don't have to worry about any players kneeling at the WC***

[HereComesTheSpiral]

Dammit, now I can't pull out my US soccer shirt from 4 years ago

[BrunswickDawg]

And fire whoever hired him. Any player who has national team aspirations needs to be in Europe. I'd rather see them playing for Brentford or even Southend that playing the MLS. MLS is fun to watch, but the competition is no better than third tier in Europe. It sucks but it is what it is.

I disagree. Atlanta was fun as hell to watch this season. The problem is MLS is too big and the talent pool too spread out. Break the top 15/16 into MLS Premiership, then drop the rest into MLS 1st Division. That will force teams to consolidate talent or get relegated. Let teams develop organically - like Detroit and Miami in USL have and let them their way up and develop talent and fan bases.

[Jack Lambert]

The women will make it. It is their sport.

[ShotgunDawg]

US soccer is the Big 12 of the world.

No matter how many resources we pour into the program, we aren't to turn the corner until the culture is changed.

Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Argentina, Uruguay, & Brazil are SEC teams with real identities, toughness, & play makers, while the US is a soft, over coached team that lacks physicality & an identity.

[Leroy Jenkins]

Hopefully soccer will soon go away. Probably not in my lifetime though.

[mparkerfd20]

Thank God. Maybe we're one step closer to soccer going away in the US. One can only hope. **

[Bothrops]

The women will make it. It is their sport.

Agreed, it's a great sport for women. Plus you get to see some great legs in action.

[Cooterpoot]

Agreed, it's a great sport for women. Plus you get to see some great legs in action.

And most are great with the scissors kick if you know what I mean.

[Beaver]

US soccer is the Big 12 of the world.

No matter how many resources we pour into the program, we aren't to turn the corner until the culture is changed.

Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Argentina, Uruguay, & Brazil are SEC teams with real identities, toughness, & play makers, while the US is a soft, over coached team that lacks physicality & an identity.

Netherlands, who made the final in 2010 and the semis in 2014, failed to qualify for the 2018 WC. Hard to qualify in Europe... Meanwhile, the US can't beat teams from countries that we send missionaries to build houses for in order to qualify.

[CadaverDawg]

Hopefully soccer will soon go away. Probably not in my lifetime though.

We're closer to football going away imo than futbol going away. I enjoy watching international soccer, especially the WC, so I'm disappointed. Maybe this will finally cause a much needed reset with American soccer, and we'll start focusing on skill development at an early age and stop with the "pay to play". The only kids getting refined skills are the ones with money to pay for expensive travel clubs....that isn't right, and it's killing US soccer in my opinion. We have the athletes on the field, but our players have an ounce of the skill some of these countries have. And coaching....coaching & showing up should have beaten Trinidad. That shit was an embarrassment

[mstatefan91]

Oh look. A thread with men aged 40+ calling soccer irrelevant or a pansy sport. How original

Time for the system to be gutted. Got to drive up professional clubs and development. Introduce relegation and quit letting talent slip through the cracks. Enough with hand picking teams because "my daddy knows your daddy." There is no reason that the USA should not be top 10 in soccer other than corruption and incompetence.

[mstatefan91]

Hopefully soccer will soon go away. Probably not in my lifetime though.

Not going to happen. Get over it

[Dawg61]

That was the worst game I have ever seen USA play. Zero energy. We intimidate nobody.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Mullenz to US Soccer!

[TUSK]

The women will make it. It is their sport.

I knew it... you are a "mutt the hoople" alter!!!

edit: what is this thing yall call "soccer{?

[Dawgowar]

Oh look. A thread with men aged 40+ calling soccer irrelevant or a pansy sport. How original

Time for the system to be gutted. Got to drive up professional clubs and development. Introduce relegation and quit letting talent slip through the cracks. Enough with hand picking teams because "my daddy knows your daddy." There is no reason that the USA should not be top 10 in soccer other than corruption and incompetence.

54, love the sport. Agree with everything you said for the most part. Need to start allowing tackling in the youth leagues as well. All leagues need to have winners and losers.

[BrunswickDawg]

Oh look. A thread with men aged 40+ calling soccer irrelevant or a pansy sport. How original

Time for the system to be gutted. Got to drive up professional clubs and development. Introduce relegation and quit letting talent slip through the cracks. Enough with hand picking teams because "my daddy knows your daddy." There is no reason that the USA should not be top 10 in soccer other than corruption and incompetence.
Easy now - a lot of us 40+ guys love soccer. It?s our parents who never could understand the rules and thought it was cute.

[Wet Dawg]

No one cares

I care. Shut your face

[smootness]

US soccer is the Big 12 of the world.

No matter how many resources we pour into the program, we aren't to turn the corner until the culture is changed.

Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Argentina, Uruguay, & Brazil are SEC teams with real identities, toughness, & play makers, while the US is a soft, over coached team that lacks physicality & an identity.

If you think the problem with US soccer is that it isn't tough or physical enough, then I don't know what to tell you. The problem is that we don't have enough creative talent, and our touch still lags way behind the rest of the world.

And the problem isn't really that we haven't sent people abroad. We had an entire generation (4-5 years) that didn't develop, for whatever reason, and it is killing us. Klinsmann had a lot of great ideas about soccer development in the US, and the good thing is that we're starting to see the benefits at the 15-year-old to 20-year-old level. We have some legit talent there, and some of these guys are already starting to break through at legit programs across the world.

I am not a fan of Arena, but this is not his fault. This team just wasn't good. Period. Sure, they should have been better than they were, but the talent itself wasn't good enough. John Brooks being out hurt, because it also meant we weren't comfortable with Cameron on the back line. Bradley has declined and is no longer good enough to control things in the middle, and we have essentially no other controlling center midfielders we can turn to. Nagbe is not good enough to be starting for the US national team.

It is time to commit 100% to a youth movement. I don't want to see guys like Dempsey, Nagbe, Gonzalez, Besler, etc. ever play for the US again, and I don't care if Bradley ever does again. This is Pulisic's team; Altidore and Wood are fine up top, but it is time to start getting these young guys caps with the senior national team, even if they're really too young right now. Emerson Hyndman, Weston McKennie, Josh Sargent...they need to be playing now. And yes, guys like Kellyn Acosta do need to leave MLS.

[Jack Lambert]

Easy now - a lot of us 40+ guys love soccer. It?s our parents who never could understand the rules and thought it was cute.

What I don't get is when soccer comes up the pro soccer guys feel they have to go out of their way to defend it. When someone says something negative about soccer they get all offended. Just look at some of the post in this thread.

In the US soccer will always be viewed like the Olympics. Every four years everyone will get excited and then they forget. It will never change. I am indifferent about it. I will watch World Cup when the US is in it. Just because I can. Got something to pull for. After that the only soccer I will see is from the road passing by the soccer field.

If someone likes it fine and if not that is fine as well. There is a lot of sports I don't watch and to be honest I would watch Soccer before NBA, NFL and MLB if that is all I have to choose from. You know I don't like volley ball but will turn the channel every time to watch women beach volley ball. "That gives me something else to pull" :)

[Liverpooldawg]

I disagree. Atlanta was fun as hell to watch this season. The problem is MLS is too big and the talent pool too spread out. Break the top 15/16 into MLS Premiership, then drop the rest into MLS 1st Division. That will force teams to consolidate talent or get relegated. Let teams develop organically - like Detroit and Miami in USL have and let them their way up and develop talent and fan bases.


MLS is fun, and the crowds are getting better all the time, but the level of competition is just not good. It?s seen as a retirement league in Europe. The Latin Americans that come are the ones that have little to no shot at Europe or playing big time in Argentina, Brazil, or Mexico. The US team has declined as more of the bigger stars came home. Until we produce enough homegrown players to staff MLS at a higher level it?s always going to be that way. For now the guys in the national team need to be in Europe, even if it?s not a top tier league. In England the championship is defiantly better than MLS. I think League one is at least as good, and it?s a tougher, more hard nosed league. It will build backbone more than MLS will at the moment.

[ShotgunDawg]

If you think the problem with US soccer is that it isn't tough or physical enough, then I don't know what to tell you. The problem is that we don't have enough creative talent, and our touch still lags way behind the rest of the world.

And the problem isn't really that we haven't sent people abroad. We had an entire generation (4-5 years) that didn't develop, for whatever reason, and it is killing us. Klinsmann had a lot of great ideas about soccer development in the US, and the good thing is that we're starting to see the benefits at the 15-year-old to 20-year-old level. We have some legit talent there, and some of these guys are already starting to break through at legit programs across the world.

I am not a fan of Arena, but this is not his fault. This team just wasn't good. Period. Sure, they should have been better than they were, but the talent itself wasn't good enough. John Brooks being out hurt, because it also meant we weren't comfortable with Cameron on the back line. Bradley has declined and is no longer good enough to control things in the middle, and we have essentially no other controlling center midfielders we can turn to. Nagbe is not good enough to be starting for the US national team.

It is time to commit 100% to a youth movement. I don't want to see guys like Dempsey, Nagbe, Gonzalez, Besler, etc. ever play for the US again, and I don't care if Bradley ever does again. This is Pulisic's team; Altidore and Wood are fine up top, but it is time to start getting these young guys caps with the senior national team, even if they're really too young right now. Emerson Hyndman, Weston McKennie, Josh Sargent...they need to be playing now. And yes, guys like Kellyn Acosta do need to leave MLS.

Excellent post.

I was speaking more to the culture problem than actual physicality

[smootness]

Excellent post.

I was speaking more to the culture problem than actual physicality

Gotcha.

[Liverpooldawg]

What I don't get is when soccer comes up the pro soccer guys feel they have to go out of their way to defend it. When someone says something negative about soccer they get all offended. Just look at some of the post in this thread.

In the US soccer will always be viewed like the Olympics. Every four years everyone will get excited and then they forget. It will never change. I am indifferent about it. I will watch World Cup when the US is in it. Just because I can. Got something to pull for. After that the only soccer I will see is from the road passing by the soccer field.

If someone likes it fine and if not that is fine as well. There is a lot of sports I don't watch and to be honest I would watch Soccer before NBA, NFL and MLB if that is all I have to choose from. You know I don't like volley ball but will turn the channel every time to watch women beach volley ball. "That gives me something else to pull" :)

It’s not like that everywhere in the US. Some of the MLS teams have fantastic followings now. Seattle, Portland, and Atlanta stand out. As for as defending it, we aren’t really defending it as pointing out that not everyone in the US could care less. That has been changing for a while now.

Now what’s REALLY funny, at least in my case, is that I actually HATE international soccer. I wish it would go away and never come back. All it’s good for is getting the best players at a big club hurt. My club just lost its best player for at least 6 weeks. It happens dang near every international window. It took me a while to understand why the phrase “We aren’t English, we’re Scouse” carried such venom among soccer fans on Merseyside. Most other big club’s fans feel the same way toward their national teams. Club soccer is the best. It’s even awesome on down the pyramids in many countries over seas, nowhere more so than England.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

No one cares

Just because YOU don't like it don't mean others don't. You sir are not the standard.

[Liverpooldawg]

If you think the problem with US soccer is that it isn't tough or physical enough, then I don't know what to tell you. The problem is that we don't have enough creative talent, and our touch still lags way behind the rest of the world.

And the problem isn't really that we haven't sent people abroad. We had an entire generation (4-5 years) that didn't develop, for whatever reason, and it is killing us. Klinsmann had a lot of great ideas about soccer development in the US, and the good thing is that we're starting to see the benefits at the 15-year-old to 20-year-old level. We have some legit talent there, and some of these guys are already starting to break through at legit programs across the world.

I am not a fan of Arena, but this is not his fault. This team just wasn't good. Period. Sure, they should have been better than they were, but the talent itself wasn't good enough. John Brooks being out hurt, because it also meant we weren't comfortable with Cameron on the back line. Bradley has declined and is no longer good enough to control things in the middle, and we have essentially no other controlling center midfielders we can turn to. Nagbe is not good enough to be starting for the US national team.

It is time to commit 100% to a youth movement. I don't want to see guys like Dempsey, Nagbe, Gonzalez, Besler, etc. ever play for the US again, and I don't care if Bradley ever does again. This is Pulisic's team; Altidore and Wood are fine up top, but it is time to start getting these young guys caps with the senior national team, even if they're really too young right now. Emerson Hyndman, Weston McKennie, Josh Sargent...they need to be playing now. And yes, guys like Kellyn Acosta do need to leave MLS.


Most of the national team guys came home the last 4-5 years.

[Liverpooldawg]

Easy now - a lot of us 40+ guys love soccer. It?s our parents who never could understand the rules and thought it was cute.

I’m in my 50s.

[BrunswickDawg]

What I don't get is when soccer comes up the pro soccer guys feel they have to go out of their way to defend it. When someone says something negative about soccer they get all offended. Just look at some of the post in this thread.

In the US soccer will always be viewed like the Olympics. Every four years everyone will get excited and then they forget. It will never change. I am indifferent about it. I will watch World Cup when the US is in it. Just because I can. Got something to pull for. After that the only soccer I will see is from the road passing by the soccer field.

If someone likes it fine and if not that is fine as well. There is a lot of sports I don't watch and to be honest I would watch Soccer before NBA, NFL and MLB if that is all I have to choose from. You know I don't like volley ball but will turn the channel every time to watch women beach volley ball. "That gives me something else to pull" :)

I think a lot of it is where you are and your exposure to it. If you grew up around a larger city, you were exposed to more soccer and began following at a younger age. I grew up in the First Wave of Metro Atlanta youth soccer - late 70s and early 80s. Everyone I knew played. We went to weekend clinics with NASL players. We played 11 v 11 full field games from age 6 up (not this 3v3 or 7v7 small field crap you see in a lot of youth leagues now). Everyone had a team they got interested in from it - Atlanta Chiefs, NY Cosmos, Chicago Sting, Minnesota Kicks, Tampa Bay Rowdies. When the NASL folded shop we got the Atlanta Ruckus/Silverbacks, went to international exhibition matches at Atl-Ful Co Stadium, or Grant Field, and then got pissed off and stayed pissed off that after MLS formed Atlanta never got a team (that shows the long running stupidity on MLS's part). Now they are seeing 70,000+ at United games in Atlanta.

So yeah, those of us who are pro soccer defend it because contrary to some anti-soccer opinions its not just some fad invented for soft millennials so they all get a trophy. It's been a part of our lives - just like MSU, the Braves, or any other team we follow.

[Liverpooldawg]

We're closer to football going away imo than futbol going away. I enjoy watching international soccer, especially the WC, so I'm disappointed. Maybe this will finally cause a much needed reset with American soccer, and we'll start focusing on skill development at an early age and stop with the "pay to play". The only kids getting refined skills are the ones with money to pay for expensive travel clubs....that isn't right, and it's killing US soccer in my opinion. We have the athletes on the field, but our players have an ounce of the skill some of these countries have. And coaching....coaching & showing up should have beaten Trinidad. That shit was an embarrassment

Soccer is basically the working class game everywhere but North America. Here, as you pointed out, it’s a game of the middle class, with the better players tending to come from the upper middle because they are the only ones who can afford the travel teams. Until that changes we won’t produce much top notch talent.

[ShotgunDawg]

Soccer is basically the working class game everywhere but North America. Here, as you pointed out, it’s a game of the middle class, with the better players tending to come from the upper middle because they are the only ones who can afford the travel teams. Until that changes we won’t produce much top notch talent.

As I've always said, the US will compete for World Cups the day that soccer goals are mounted underneath the baskets on New York and Chicago playgrounds

IMO, soccer must be played in small spaces in a creative environment. The US model is the opposite.

The US is the best in basketball because the development model is about creativity and is a playground sport. The US used to have this in baseball with inner city stick ball. Now the Dominican has that type of development

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

This has probably already been talked about, but we need to quit pretending the MLS is doing an adequate job developing players. The best MLS team is the equivalent of a pretty good 3rd tier team in the English pyramid (in my opinion).

[Liverpooldawg]

This has probably already been talked about, but we need to quit pretending the MLS is doing an adequate job developing players. The best MLS team is the equivalent of a pretty good 3rd tier team in the English pyramid (in my opinion).

Yep.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Another thought: I feel the media needs to start holding the actual players on the team responsible for results on the field. The sports media's relationship with the team is too friendly and rah-rah. It's always Klinsman's fault, or Gulati's fault, or Arena's fault. It's never the player's fault that they can't go out and consistantly handle business against the likes of Trinidad & Tobago and Honduras.

Look at how Alexi Lalas's criticism of the team was handled a few months ago. The fact it took us being outside of the top 3 six or seven games into a 10 game group stage before anyone began criticizing the team was ridiculous in and of itself. Then when someone finally start directing criticism at the team, he's largely made fun of (it was somewhat corny) and his points marginalized.

[dawgs]

If you think the problem with US soccer is that it isn't tough or physical enough, then I don't know what to tell you. The problem is that we don't have enough creative talent, and our touch still lags way behind the rest of the world.

And the problem isn't really that we haven't sent people abroad. We had an entire generation (4-5 years) that didn't develop, for whatever reason, and it is killing us. Klinsmann had a lot of great ideas about soccer development in the US, and the good thing is that we're starting to see the benefits at the 15-year-old to 20-year-old level. We have some legit talent there, and some of these guys are already starting to break through at legit programs across the world.

I am not a fan of Arena, but this is not his fault. This team just wasn't good. Period. Sure, they should have been better than they were, but the talent itself wasn't good enough. John Brooks being out hurt, because it also meant we weren't comfortable with Cameron on the back line. Bradley has declined and is no longer good enough to control things in the middle, and we have essentially no other controlling center midfielders we can turn to. Nagbe is not good enough to be starting for the US national team.

It is time to commit 100% to a youth movement. I don't want to see guys like Dempsey, Nagbe, Gonzalez, Besler, etc. ever play for the US again, and I don't care if Bradley ever does again. This is Pulisic's team; Altidore and Wood are fine up top, but it is time to start getting these young guys caps with the senior national team, even if they're really too young right now. Emerson Hyndman, Weston McKennie, Josh Sargent...they need to be playing now. And yes, guys like Kellyn Acosta do need to leave MLS.

Good post. I was telling someone last night we are kinda in between generations. Our best talent is all 30+ or <22. Somehow we ****ed up in between big time and that?s what brought the team down. I?m not familiar with who is coming down the pipeline, but everything I?ve read is the U-17 team is loaded. This team wasn?t gonna do shit in Russia anyway, but it would?ve been nice to get pulisic and a couple other young guys experience. But maybe this triggers a revamping of the USMNT. I think the system in place now is definitely better than it?s ever been, but it takes time for the talent to work their way up from pre-teens and teens to being world class soccer players. We need to update our style of play and turn over the roster to the young talent now. Give them 5 years to gel and develop and gear up for 2022.

[dawgs]

What I don't get is when soccer comes up the pro soccer guys feel they have to go out of their way to defend it. When someone says something negative about soccer they get all offended. Just look at some of the post in this thread.

In the US soccer will always be viewed like the Olympics. Every four years everyone will get excited and then they forget. It will never change. I am indifferent about it. I will watch World Cup when the US is in it. Just because I can. Got something to pull for. After that the only soccer I will see is from the road passing by the soccer field.

If someone likes it fine and if not that is fine as well. There is a lot of sports I don't watch and to be honest I would watch Soccer before NBA, NFL and MLB if that is all I have to choose from. You know I don't like volley ball but will turn the channel every time to watch women beach volley ball. "That gives me something else to pull" :)

There?s millions of people who don?t view US soccer like the olympics though. Maybe you do, but the number of people who don?t treat it like the olympics grows every day, and to deny that is sticking your head in the sand because you don?t like it or get it.

[dawgs]

Soccer is basically the working class game everywhere but North America. Here, as you pointed out, it?s a game of the middle class, with the better players tending to come from the upper middle because they are the only ones who can afford the travel teams. Until that changes we won?t produce much top notch talent.

When youth football and junior high/high school football starts disappearing due to insurance premiums and liability, something is going to fill the void, and imo soccer stands to be the biggest gainer in talent.

[Liverpooldawg]

When youth football and junior high/high school football starts disappearing due to insurance premiums and liability, something is going to fill the void, and imo soccer stands to be the biggest gainer in talent.

They will just start in soccer then, lots of concussions in soccer. It already has start d in fact, many youth leagues ban headers.

[mstatefan91]

What I don't get is when soccer comes up the pro soccer guys feel they have to go out of their way to defend it. When someone says something negative about soccer they get all offended. Just look at some of the post in this thread.

In the US soccer will always be viewed like the Olympics. Every four years everyone will get excited and then they forget. It will never change. I am indifferent about it. I will watch World Cup when the US is in it. Just because I can. Got something to pull for. After that the only soccer I will see is from the road passing by the soccer field.

If someone likes it fine and if not that is fine as well. There is a lot of sports I don't watch and to be honest I would watch Soccer before NBA, NFL and MLB if that is all I have to choose from. You know I don't like volley ball but will turn the channel every time to watch women beach volley ball. "That gives me something else to pull" :)

That's perfectly fine. It annoys the pro-soccer guys when the negative soccer guys wish for its death. That's not indifference.

[jumbo]

USSF needs to clean house from top to bottom. Get rid of Sunil, Bruce, and any player that is not 100% committed every time they put on the red white and blue.

There is zero excuse for the US no to qualify for the WC every single time given the teams we play against in qualifying.

[dawgs]

They will just start in soccer then, lots of concussions in soccer. It already has start d in fact, many youth leagues ban headers.

Difference is that it’s easy to eliminate headers from youth leagues. And science shows repeated banging of the head is as destructive as the major concussions, like OL don’t have some major head shot like a WR might take, but they still have brain damage. You don’t have guys hanging heads 60+ times per game in soccer. I also watch a fair amount of soccer and I’ve never seen a stumbling around or react like Luke kuechly did last year after a header. But you seen that multiple times a weekend watching football. I’ve only seen a couple of times where an elbow or another head collides with a player’s head and he reacted similarly to the way football players act after major concussions many times every weekend. Finally, the whole premise of football leads to banging heads. The whole premise of soccer does not lead to head to head or head to elbow contact, just as basketball doesn’t inherently lead to elbow to head contact in boxing out situations or baseball doesn’t inherently lead to taking a thrown or hit ball off the head.

[Liverpooldawg]

Difference is that it’s easy to eliminate headers from youth leagues. And science shows repeated banging of the head is as destructive as the major concussions, like OL don’t have some major head shot like a WR might take, but they still have brain damage. You don’t have guys hanging heads 60+ times per game in soccer. I also watch a fair amount of soccer and I’ve never seen a stumbling around or react like Luke kuechly did last year after a header. But you seen that multiple times a weekend watching football. I’ve only seen a couple of times where an elbow or another head collides with a player’s head and he reacted similarly to the way football players act after major concussions many times every weekend. Finally, the whole premise of football leads to banging heads. The whole premise of soccer does not lead to head to head or head to elbow contact, just as basketball doesn’t inherently lead to elbow to head contact in boxing out situations or baseball doesn’t inherently lead to taking a thrown or hit ball off the head.

You must not watch the right leagues.

[dawgs]

You must not watch the right leagues.

Show me a list of soccer players stumbling around like they are about 8 shots of tequila deep right after a header each weekend and we’ll see how it compares to football players doing the same. I’m not saying it never happens, but you just don’t see it happen all that often in soccer, yet I see it a couple times per weekend in college and nfl games and I don’t even watch all that much football these days.

[Maroonthirteen]

They will just start in soccer then, lots of concussions in soccer. It already has start d in fact, many youth leagues ban headers.

US youth soccer instituted rules a few years ago that U11 and under can't head.

As for the guy mentioning small sided games are a problem. No, small sided games help more players get more touches . Typically with kids under 8, they don't know how to spread out and it is just a cluster of 22 players fighting for a ball. Small sided games help eliminate that.

[Maroonthirteen]

Clay Travis nails it. Listen to 1-15 minutes. (Sorry about his OCD about comments section around minute 4-5)

https://www.facebook.com/OutkickTheCoverage/videos/1685257784832042/

[Maroonthirteen]

speaking of the development of young players, the pool for players in the US is small because of the way the Olympic Development Program is set up.

To have the skills necessary to play ODP soccer and eventually ascend to the USNT, a player will have to been trained at a Local Soccer club. My experience with rec soccer is that most
Of The coaches have no clue. They don't teach fundamentals (proper dribbling, trapping, striking the ball). They teach wrong tactics. They put their backs on the 18 and tell them to stay there. Etc etc.

So to get the coaching necessary to be an ODP and keep Up with all the other kids, you have to play club soccer. This will cost parents anywhere from $1000-$2000 per year depending on how much their particular team travels. Once a player has been trained properly, they can attend their state tryouts for ODP. If you make your state ODP team, this will cost you a few hundred bucks in fees and about another $700 mid summer if you want to go to ODP camp. If you make it to a regional team, the expenses go up.

I don't know if it will work but US Youth Soccer will need a boat load of sponsorship money to fund inner city and rural leagues with proper coaching that could train a larger pool of kids to prepare them for ODP and fund those less fortunate kids all the way through the ODP program.

[Liverpooldawg]

Show me a list of soccer players stumbling around like they are about 8 shots of tequila deep right after a header each weekend and we’ll see how it compares to football players doing the same. I’m not saying it never happens, but you just don’t see it happen all that often in soccer, yet I see it a couple times per weekend in college and nfl games and I don’t even watch all that much football these days.

It's not just headers. It's the clash of heads going for headers. It happens in 30-40% of the games I watch from England at least once.

[dawgs]

It's not just headers. It's the clash of heads going for headers. It happens in 30-40% of the games I watch from England at least once.

I mentioned head to head collisions and heat to elbow collisions in my previous post. I’m aware of how a majority of the concussions/head injuries occur in soccer. Hitting another head, an elbow, or the ground are far more likely to cause a concussion than heading a ball.

Had guys hitting heads in 30-40% of the games is my point. In the nfl there are head to head (and head to ground and head to other body parts) hits on every play of every game. In soccer, it occurs like maybe 1-2 times per game in 30-40% of the games (according to you). If anything that makes the case why soccer is safer than football.

[The Federalist Engineer]

speaking of the development of young players, the pool for players in the US is small because of the way the Olympic Development Program is set up.

To have the skills necessary to play ODP soccer and eventually ascend to the USNT, a player will have to been trained at a Local Soccer club. My experience with rec soccer is that most
Of The coaches have no clue. They don't teach fundamentals (proper dribbling, trapping, striking the ball). They teach wrong tactics. They put their backs on the 18 and tell them to stay there. Etc etc.

So to get the coaching necessary to be an ODP and keep Up with all the other kids, you have to play club soccer. This will cost parents anywhere from $1000-$2000 per year depending on how much their particular team travels. Once a player has been trained properly, they can attend their state tryouts for ODP. If you make your state ODP team, this will cost you a few hundred bucks in fees and about another $700 mid summer if you want to go to ODP camp. If you make it to a regional team, the expenses go up.

I don't know if it will work but US Youth Soccer will need a boat load of sponsorship money to fund inner city and rural leagues with proper coaching that could train a larger pool of kids to prepare them for ODP and fund those less fortunate kids all the way through the ODP program.

These $ amounts are peanuts compared to elite Baseball and Hockey. The US team just lacks true game changing players, they have decent players. CONCACAF is a much better league than it has ever been. Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras could beat anybody in the world. Honduras at home fights like tigers. Even Jamaica is ok.

The only gimme games in CONCACAF are the tiny Caribbean resort islands. Team USA in 1990, 1998, and 2006 would not have qualified against this competition either.

You mention ODP...ODP Sucks

[dawgs]

These $ amounts are peanuts compared to elite Baseball and Hockey. The US team just lacks true game changing players, they have decent players. CONCACAF is a much better league than it has ever been. Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras could beat anybody in the world. Honduras at home fights like tigers. Even Jamaica is ok.

The only gimme games in CONCACAF are the tiny Caribbean resort islands. Team USA in 1990, 1998, and 2006 would not have qualified against this competition either.

You mention ODP...ODP Sucks

By “tiny Caribbean resort islands”, you basically mean Trinidad and Tobago?

[smootness]

These $ amounts are peanuts compared to elite Baseball and Hockey. The US team just lacks true game changing players, they have decent players. CONCACAF is a much better league than it has ever been. Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras could beat anybody in the world. Honduras at home fights like tigers. Even Jamaica is ok.

The only gimme games in CONCACAF are the tiny Caribbean resort islands. Team USA in 1990, 1998, and 2006 would not have qualified against this competition either.

You mention ODP...ODP Sucks

There is definitely some truth to this. Although the 2006 team would have easily qualified against this competition. I can't speak as much to the others, but I would imagine the 98 team was also definitely good enough. And this team, even with its issues should have easily qualified. CONCACAF has improved a good bit, but not that much. There is no excuse for finishing above only T&T in the hex.

The strange irony in all this is that the MLS is aiding in keeping the US back to some degree, but it has also played a huge part in growing teams like CR, Honduras, and Panama.

[Liverpooldawg]

I mentioned head to head collisions and heat to elbow collisions in my previous post. I?m aware of how a majority of the concussions/head injuries occur in soccer. Hitting another head, an elbow, or the ground are far more likely to cause a concussion than heading a ball.

Had guys hitting heads in 30-40% of the games is my point. In the nfl there are head to head (and head to ground and head to other body parts) hits on every play of every game. In soccer, it occurs like maybe 1-2 times per game in 30-40% of the games (according to you). If anything that makes the case why soccer is safer than football.

The point remains that the lawyers will go after soccer once they tame or do away with football. Somehow we have set legal standards that there should be no danger in anything, and if there is and something happens it?s somebody else?s fault. That somebody else is usually someone or something with money.

[dawgs]

The point remains that the lawyers will go after soccer once they tame or do away with football. Somehow we have set legal standards that there should be no danger in anything, and if there is and something happens it?s somebody else?s fault. That somebody else is usually someone or something with money.

“The lawyers”. Why don’t we wait and see what happens. The NFL actively hid research and information regarding head trauma and concussions from the players. That’s where they ****ed up. If they had been upfront and then worked to make the game safer years ago, then there wouldn’t be lawsuits and breaking news today. There is some acceptable level of danger, guys get concussions in all team sports. The difference is that in no other team sports do you have multiple hits to the head on literally every play. Football fundamentally is a game where head trauma has to occur. That’s way way way different from soccer, hockey, baseball, and basketball. In all those sports head trauma CAN occur and DOES occur, but not at the rates of football because every single play isn’t about hitting a guy across from you and knocking them to the ground.

[War Machine Dawg]

Late to the party, but I'd like to chime in here. I'm pissed but somewhat unsurprised we didn't qualify. The team selection sucked and I was concerned when Arena said (true or not) before the Panama game that he hadn't even thought about the T&T match. We played like a team that hadn't been prepared for T&T.

As far as improving the sport and talent pool, lots of good points already being made here. The whole "pay to play" system needs to be scrapped. I love Brunswick's idea for how to achieve relegation, but good luck pitching that to club owners who have invested a shit load of money into these MLS clubs. It needs to happen, but MLS & the money are dead against it. I'm also for more of our young players going to test themselves in Europe. I wish Jordan Morris had signed with Bremen instead of the Sounders. Why he didn't play a single minute of these last two hex games is beyond me, especially the T&T game. Deandre Yedlin is a prime example of a guy who has made major improvements by going to play overseas.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned that I think needs to be discussed is how do we improve the access to soccer to kids in very rural areas. We're missing out on major talent when kids from places like Morton MS, Pinola MS, rural Alabama, rural Nebraska, etc. don't have the opportunity to play soccer. As it stands, those kids only see the "traditional American" sports - football, basketball, baseball - as their ticket out. We've got to get to a point where they see soccer as a viable option. We're missing freakish athletes who might not make it in those sports but could make it in soccer. I realize that in some ways it's not the athleticism that we're lacking, but it never hurts to have freaks of nature on the pitch. I just read an article recently about OBJ and if he'd chosen soccer over football. Imagine that dude spearheading our attacking talent with Pulisic.

Anyway, just something I've been thinking about since the debacle. In some ways, while the size of our country is a great strength, it's also a great weakness. We've got to find a way to get kids, especially in rural areas, more involved with the sport.

Finally, I'll just drop the link to the American Outlaws' statement on our failure to qualify and what should come next (https://www.theamericanoutlaws.com/articles/statement-from-ao-following-world-cup-qualifying-elimination). I think they pretty much nail it. We all have to pitch in to help make the changes. Personally, I think I'll look into helping coach some sort of youth or HS soccer. It will be a commitment and require a lot of studying and effort on my end, but we each must start playing a part if we want the sport to grow here.

Unite & Strengthen,

WMD

[Liverpooldawg]

“The lawyers”. Why don’t we wait and see what happens. The NFL actively hid research and information regarding head trauma and concussions from the players. That’s where they ****ed up. If they had been upfront and then worked to make the game safer years ago, then there wouldn’t be lawsuits and breaking news today. There is some acceptable level of danger, guys get concussions in all team sports. The difference is that in no other team sports do you have multiple hits to the head on literally every play. Football fundamentally is a game where head trauma has to occur. That’s way way way different from soccer, hockey, baseball, and basketball. In all those sports head trauma CAN occur and DOES occur, but not at the rates of football because every single play isn’t about hitting a guy across from you and knocking them to the ground.

I’ve seen some figures where soccer head issues are right up there with football. Perhaps what I saw was wrong. Why so defensive?

[BrunswickDawg]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned that I think needs to be discussed is how do we improve the access to soccer to kids in very rural areas. We're missing out on major talent when kids from places like Morton MS, Pinola MS, rural Alabama, rural Nebraska, etc. don't have the opportunity to play soccer. As it stands, those kids only see the "traditional American" sports - football, basketball, baseball - as their ticket out. We've got to get to a point where they see soccer as a viable option. We're missing freakish athletes who might not make it in those sports but could make it in soccer. I realize that in some ways it's not the athleticism that we're lacking, but it never hurts to have freaks of nature on the pitch. I just read an article recently about OBJ and if he'd chosen soccer over football. Imagine that dude spearheading our attacking talent with Pulisic.

The youth movement to rural areas suffers from some the same issues that inner-city kids face. Economics, program availability, and transportation. It is something actually being addressed here locally by one of our own - Darius Slay. He helps fund this program started by his cousin http://www.coastaloutreachsoccer.com/Default.aspx?tabid=395369 and uses soccer as the cornerstone of his afterschool program. Morgan Brian from the USWNT is from here and also has been involved some.

For a small city, we are lucky to have produced some high profile athletes who are giving back to the community through kids programs - Slay, Brian, Adam Wainwright, Kwame Brown, and Davis Love III all step up whenever asked.

[jumbo]

For a bit of good news...the U17 USMNT has advanced from group play in the U17 world cup.

[War Machine Dawg]

For a bit of good news...the U17 USMNT has advanced from group play in the U17 world cup.

I DVR'd the match so I can watch it this afternoon after I get home from work. Didn't even realize U17 WC was happening until I read the AO statement. Eager to see how the kids look.

[War Machine Dawg]

The youth movement to rural areas suffers from some the same issues that inner-city kids face. Economics, program availability, and transportation. It is something actually being addressed here locally by one of our own - Darius Slay. He helps fund this program started by his cousin http://www.coastaloutreachsoccer.com/Default.aspx?tabid=395369 and uses soccer as the cornerstone of his afterschool program. Morgan Brian from the USWNT is from here and also has been involved some.

For a small city, we are lucky to have produced some high profile athletes who are giving back to the community through kids programs - Slay, Brian, Adam Wainwright, Kwame Brown, and Davis Love III all step up whenever asked.

No doubt. But like I said, we've got to find some way of addressing the problem. I think JR High & HS soccer might be part of the answer, but that's pretty late for kids to be starting. Honestly, it's just something that came to my mind and would like to see discussed. I don't expect "us" here on ED to solve the issue. A whole lot of people who are smarter than me haven't figured out a way yet. Just an obvious, glaring issue I see. If it could ever be addressed, we'd unlock an insanely large talent pool.

[jumbo]

I DVR'd the match so I can watch it this afternoon after I get home from work. Didn't even realize U17 WC was happening until I read the AO statement. Eager to see how the kids look.



my bad....*spoiler alert*

[BrunswickDawg]

No doubt. But like I said, we've got to find some way of addressing the problem. I think JR High & HS soccer might be part of the answer, but that's pretty late for kids to be starting. Honestly, it's just something that came to my mind and would like to see discussed. I don't expect "us" here on ED to solve the issue. A whole lot of people who are smarter than me haven't figured out a way yet. Just an obvious, glaring issue I see. If it could ever be addressed, we'd unlock an insanely large talent pool.

What? ED can solve everything. We have experts so good they can out coach anyone.***

[CadaverDawg]

Well as a guy that is trying hard to get into soccer more & more, I think the USMNT better get this shit fixed & figured out going forward, bc I've got enough disappointing teams I pull for in other sports, so they run the risk of losing all of the people that are trying to get into soccer if they fall on their faces again after this big setback.

We're used to being the best in this country....so I don't see support continuing to grow if US men's soccer remains a stinker after this.

In other words...it feels like soccer fandom in this country is at an all time high, so I really hope we didn't miss out on a huge opportunity to propel things forward while interest is high.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Who dem lawyers gonna sue, Starkville Youth Soccer Organizations around the country. The only nation that would entertain the trial would be the USA and there is nobody big to pillage in the US. Alabama Football (by it self) makes more money than all MLS.

The real prize for head issues is internet Porn. Widespread ED, broken homes, unfulfilled potential, human trafficking, predators of poor women, and degradation of women. Lookup billionaire Fabian Theilmann (sp?) free internet porn actually has a Cappo di Cappos.

[dawgs]

No doubt. But like I said, we've got to find some way of addressing the problem. I think JR High & HS soccer might be part of the answer, but that's pretty late for kids to be starting. Honestly, it's just something that came to my mind and would like to see discussed. I don't expect "us" here on ED to solve the issue. A whole lot of people who are smarter than me haven't figured out a way yet. Just an obvious, glaring issue I see. If it could ever be addressed, we'd unlock an insanely large talent pool.

It’s about retaining the kids that play soccer when they are 5-6 years old but stop to play other sports as they get older. A lot of that has to do with the parents kinda pushing kids to other sports. I know I played soccer as a kid but In the 80s it wasn’t on tv, we didn’t have the internet to stream games, I watched baseball, football, and basketball with my dad, so that’s what I wanted to play. By the time soccer was on tv, mls became semi-relevant, the internet allows us to stream any game in the world, my generation was too old to start playing soccer with any skill. However people around my age are far more into soccer than our parents were, and a lot of them have kids <10 years old that play sports, and these parents have soccer on tv at home and they push their kids to keep playing, so I think you will see more participation all the way up through the ranks including junior high and high school, you are increasing the talent pool, which makes for more competition and better players. It just takes years to happen.

People say “oh people have claimed soccer is the next big thing for 30 years” like there should’ve been an overnight transition. But you have to wait 15+ years to see the fruits of planting a seed today. In 1994, guys like Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, and Tim Howard were kids watching the WC. And they formed the core of the most successful run of US soccer at the international level, but we had to wait years to see it. The problem was after the WC, we didn’t properly invest in growing the game from the ground up for the rest of the 90s, and now we have a lost generation. Between the old guys and the young guy, the generation that should be in their prime is shit. I think the younger generation (pulisic, yedlin, the U-17 team) is a result of MLS finding its footing and USA soccer doing a better (not great but better) job of developing talent in the 00s, and we are just starting to see the guys who were kids in the early and mid 00s start to get to the age of playing professionally and internationally.

[War Machine Dawg]

It’s about retaining the kids that play soccer when they are 5-6 years old but stop to play other sports as they get older. A lot of that has to do with the parents kinda pushing kids to other sports. I know I played soccer as a kid but In the 80s it wasn’t on tv, we didn’t have the internet to stream games, I watched baseball, football, and basketball with my dad, so that’s what I wanted to play. By the time soccer was on tv, mls became semi-relevant, the internet allows us to stream any game in the world, my generation was too old to start playing soccer with any skill. However people around my age are far more into soccer than our parents were, and a lot of them have kids <10 years old that play sports, and these parents have soccer on tv at home and they push their kids to keep playing, so I think you will see more participation all the way up through the ranks including junior high and high school, you are increasing the talent pool, which makes for more competition and better players. It just takes years to happen.

People say “oh people have claimed soccer is the next big thing for 30 years” like there should’ve been an overnight transition. But you have to wait 15+ years to see the fruits of planting a seed today. In 1994, guys like Landon Donovan, Clint Dempsey, and Tim Howard were kids watching the WC. And they formed the core of the most successful run of US soccer at the international level, but we had to wait years to see it. The problem was after the WC, we didn’t properly invest in growing the game from the ground up for the rest of the 90s, and now we have a lost generation. Between the old guys and the young guy, the generation that should be in their prime is shit. I think the younger generation (pulisic, yedlin, the U-17 team) is a result of MLS finding its footing and USA soccer doing a better (not great but better) job of developing talent in the 00s, and we are just starting to see the guys who were kids in the early and mid 00s start to get to the age of playing professionally and internationally.

Lots of good points here. I completely agree about the visibility of soccer now being a benefit. NBC & Fox have the EPL & Bundesliga respectively, which gives us a quality game virtually every weekend of the year. Then add the availability of streams on the internet and soccer is more visible than ever for kids. There's even talk of Facebook & Amazon bidding for the rights to stream soccer (likely the EPL). That's only going to help kids think of soccer as a viable alternative with the "Big 3."

Completely agree about it taking time and the gap in our talent pool right now. Like Taylor Twellman pointed out, the guys who are 24-28 that should be the core of this team were virtually non-existent. That said, we still should have seen a youth movement. Many of us were screaming for the program to get younger 2-3 years ago when Klinsmann was still in charge. There's no reason guys like Kellyn Acosta, Jordan Morris, Julian Green, Deandre Yedlin, etc. shouldn't have been the core of this group along with Pulisic. They might not have qualified either, but at least they'd be gaining real experience that would pay off down the road.

MLS is definitely improving. While it may still be seen as the "retirement league," the fact is that MLS has quietly frowned upon spending DP money to bring in the aging superstars, outside of special cases, for the last several years. They're encouraging teams to spend the money on young, promising talent. Some clubs like Atlanta United have embraced it. If MLS continues bringing in players like Josef Martinez, Miguel Almiron, Hector Villalba, the Dos Santos brothers in LA, etc., the league is going to really improve. Like many, I'd still love to see some form of relegation implemented, but I'm too cynical to think it happens any time soon. Too much money is against it, whether it's good for the league or not. Plus MLS themselves have been ruthless in stamping out any form of second tier "competitive" leagues like the NASL.

Agree about the pool of really young U-18 talent. I'm excited to see players like Cameron Carter-Vickers join the senior team. The thought of Matt Miazga/Carter-Vickers pairing John Brooks in the back should make all USMNT happy. That's potentially as good a combo as you'll see in the international game outside of the top European teams. The real issue is developing attacking talent. That's the big area we need improvement.

[BrunswickDawg]

Good points Dawgs and WMD -

This doesn't address youth development directly - but there is a huge hole in how USSF has set up the league systems and have stifled the organic growth of professional teams. By not having a real tiered system of leagues and relegation, there is absolutely nothing to play for if you aren't an MLS franchise. There are some really good NASL and USL teams that by all rights should have been able to work their way up to MLS. Instead, MLS tries to undercut successful clubs like Miami, Detroit, Atlanta or NY Cosmos by shutting them out or locating expansion franchises in their cities. This kills the organic growth of teams via player development and more importantly fan base development - and sours local support for new clubs. Atlanta is one of the few cities where this hasn't caused a problem in some of the more recent expansion efforts. Read up on what is going on in Detroit right now with Detroit City FC vs. MLS right now.

[DudyDawg]

These $ amounts are peanuts compared to elite Baseball and Hockey. The US team just lacks true game changing players, they have decent players. CONCACAF is a much better league than it has ever been. Panama, Costa Rica, and Honduras could beat anybody in the world. Honduras at home fights like tigers. Even Jamaica is ok.

The only gimme games in CONCACAF are the tiny Caribbean resort islands. Team USA in 1990, 1998, and 2006 would not have qualified against this competition either.

You mention ODP...ODP Sucks


So much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start. The only team that will make it out of their group in the WC from Concacaf will be Mexico, unless Costa Rica is in a weak group or Keylor Navas plays like he did in 2014. There is absolutely no excuse for the US not to qualify as second at worst in Concacaf- this year or for the next ten. Outside of Asia, Concacaf is far inferior to any other region. Absolutely no excuse.