Is the state of Mississippi THAT far behind Alabama in terms of overall talent?

[Indndawg]

I know its partly about population but I'm talking about athletic talent, coach-ability, and coaching of said athletes.

Mississippi needs to consolidate many smaller districts so the players could player better competition. Many places in North Ms fight consolidation tooth and nail bc of losing a community school and bc of basketball (no football)

[bulldawg28]

It's the coaching

[Bully13]

is there a big pay gap between AL and MS coaches?

[mstatefan91]

Population, tradition, education, money, and visibility (though this one is better because of the internet) are all factors that lead to Alabama having better success in football, at least at the collegiate level.

[Dallas_Dawg]

If you don't keep up with recruiting, you wouldn't know that Bama gets not only the best from Alabama, but the best from Florida, Texas, California, etc. Saban has taken the freight train known as Alabama, and added a jet engine and rocket boosters to it.
That's why the Colin Cowherd's of the world are saying that Bama's dominance is bad for college football, and I tend to agree. They are nearly unbeatable. Only a team like a Clemson or Ohio State has a SHOT.

[Indndawg]

Prolly anywhere from 10-15K difference

[Hasu Dackds]

This is easy to look up. Alabama has 62 3* and above players for 2018. Mississippi has 38. Last year Alabama wins 71-48. 2016 Alabama 77-47. That's where it starts.

[Hasu Dackds]

If you don't keep up with recruiting, you wouldn't know that Bama gets not only the best from Alabama, but the best from Florida, Texas, California, etc. Saban has taken the freight train known as Alabama, and added a jet engine and rocket boosters to it.
That's why the Colin Cowherd's of the world are saying that Bama's dominance is bad for college football, and I tend to agree. They are nearly unbeatable. Only a team like a Clemson or Ohio State has a SHOT.
It didn't start that way: https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Season/2008-Football/Commits

Those first couple of national championships were built on Alabama players. I actually thought the house would crumble when they got away from that and started recruiting essentially all 5 star kids around the country, but Saban can keep things together like none other.

[Ari Gold]

Coaching is a HUGE factor...

[Reason2succeed]

Per capital talent is good but the population is much smaller. Also the resources are very different. Large cities are the likely homes of well funded programs and Mississippi doesn't have any large cities.

[TUSK]

Bama gets a lot less intrastate talent today than in years' past... We've been hammering LA and GA, especially....

But to answer your question: Yes... It may be proportional to population, though... I've not run the numbers.

[IMissJack]

Someone connected with MS HS football would have to answer this, but I would imagine that with so many small schools, that the coaching, weight training, off season workouts, etc. would not be up to par with larger schools. This may play a part. I think this is a reason that we have picked up some guys that look totally different after having nutrition guides and weight training instruction for just a little while. I know my 9th grade son went to some kind of strength and conditioning almost all summer here in TX.

[Homedawg]

Coaching is a HUGE factor...

In certain places, I agree. But ms has some good coaches, just not near as many of them, for sure. But bama has more talent too. Just a fact.

[Offshore Dawg]

Saban doesn't just get 5* players. He gets some of the top rated 5* at that position.

[Offshore Dawg]

Mississippi also has a problem with way too many "School Superintendents" running their own personal empires and being paid way too much money for what they do.

[Indndawg]

you're right

[ScoobaDawg]

Bama gets a lot less intrastate talent today than in years' past... We've been hammering LA and GA, especially....

But to answer your question: Yes... It may be proportional to population, though... I've not run the numbers.

Exactly bama goes to where the talent is. I mean they got a QB from Hawaii last year....
We are limited to where we will go and can pull.

[Mimi's Babies]

is there a big pay gap between AL and MS coaches?

Starkville High Schools last 3 coaches..... Salaries

Mitchell $83,000.00

Ricky Woods took ONLY $50,000.00 -- wonder what else he received from a certain college. SHOULD anyone know what Woods salary is at South Panola PLEASE POST.... It is not current on the SP Website.. (Pogue was paid over $80,000.00)

Jones $78,000.00

Please note: This is ALL public information.... None of these coaches Teach any class.

No idea what the AD makes... but hearing rumors now that he is retiring Dec. 31, 2017.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Mississippi also has a problem with way too many "School Superintendents" running their own personal empires and being paid way too much money for what they do.

Yes. In many of these rural areas, they think the school exists to employ adults. When in reality it is supposed to exist to educate children. That is why they fight consolidation and/or state takeover.

[RocketDawg]

Starkville High Schools last 3 coaches..... Salaries

Mitchell $83,000.00

Ricky Woods took ONLY $50,000.00 -- wonder what else he received from a certain college. SHOULD anyone know what Woods salary is at South Panola PLEASE POST.... It is not current on the SP Website.. (Pogue was paid over $80,000.00)

Jones $78,000.00

Please note: This is ALL public information.... None of these coaches Teach any class.

No idea what the AD makes... but hearing rumors now that he is retiring Dec. 31, 2017.

Back in my day coaches had to teach something (that was in Meridian). Granted, it was probably History or something equally benign, but they had to teach. And of course, they might teach PE (that was required for everybody back then; not sure about now). I even had one basketball coach in junior high that taught science and he was pretty good too. He was a rarity though.

I have no idea what Alabama high school coaches are paid. Probably too much relative to a classroom teacher.

[RocketDawg]

Bama gets a lot less intrastate talent today than in years' past... We've been hammering LA and GA, especially....

But to answer your question: Yes... It may be proportional to population, though... I've not run the numbers.

I don't think so. If it was, Georgia would be super top level, as well as Florida. And Alabama would only be mediocre. It may correlate better with population on the lower end (Mississippi, Arkansas, Kentucky).

[Hot Rock]

Yes. In many of these rural areas, they think the school exists to employ adults. When in reality it is supposed to exist to educate children. That is why they fight consolidation and/or state takeover.

You hit the nail on the head right there.

I will add this:

I am advocate of taking all sports away from the school system. The Cities and counties could fund it separately and employ the coaches full time to do nothing but coach and be custodians. Most of them don't teach shit anyway other than a study hall and then not even show up for that. Most pride themselves on how little they have to do in a real classroom. They just want to coach, then let them coach and get them away from the school.

And please don't tell me how they bring in $$$ at the gate, there is no way they can pay all those coaches not to teach all day long and come out ahead.

We would finally get educators in charge of schools. We would no longer get coaches moving into principals and principals into superintendents while having never actually taught real classrooms.

We might even get better more dedicated coaches that don't have to be at a school at 7 am and not get home until after midnight on game days. A full time designated coach would do a better job and be less taxing on the schools.

Think about it. Would you like going into work a 7 in the morning and then not starting your job until 9 hrs later. The rest of the day you spend trying to get out of work. That life has to suck.

[gravedigger]

It's the coaching

Ding, ding ding

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Georgia has more talent than Alabama...according to NCAA Research from 2013-2016 here are the % of high school players recruited by P5 programs....%8.6 of Players from Georgia High Schools , %5.0 from Alabama, %3.0 from Mississippi, %10 come from Florida, %8.1 from LA..... Texas is the biggest surprise at %2.8 ..

[Coursesuper]

The coaching in MS is light years behind AL and LA. The fundamentals are taught here but the refinement of skills is being taught at a much higher level in our neighboring states. If you watch high school football just watch a how QB throws the ball and pay attention to the footwork. Lots of chunking it in MS not much passing.

[Bothrops]

Per capital talent is good but the population is much smaller. Also the resources are very different. Large cities are the likely homes of well funded programs and Mississippi doesn't have any large cities.

Well AL doesn't have any large cities either, per se, although the Birmingham metro is 1+ million and growing. AL does have four metropolitan areas of 300k+ or more, and that's a huge difference . MS has Jackson metro, 550k, Gulf Coast, 275k, and then there's DeSoto County at about 170k.

[maroonmania]

If you don't keep up with recruiting, you wouldn't know that Bama gets not only the best from Alabama, but the best from Florida, Texas, California, etc. Saban has taken the freight train known as Alabama, and added a jet engine and rocket boosters to it.
That's why the Colin Cowherd's of the world are saying that Bama's dominance is bad for college football, and I tend to agree. They are nearly unbeatable. Only a team like a Clemson or Ohio State has a SHOT.

When you beat your first 2 conference opponents, who aren't even the very worst conference teams, 59-0 and 66-3 its very bad for the league and also college football. Over the past 4 years, for every 1 four or five star player we sign, Bama signs 5! Saban is not doing that by just recruiting in and around Alabama. There is nothing good about the fact that 11 of the 13 other SEC teams can't even stay on the field with Bama at this point. Auburn and Georgia are probably the only 2 teams right now that can stay within 3 scores of Bama. Its getting beyond ridiculous.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I know its partly about population but I'm talking about athletic talent, coach-ability, and coaching of said athletes.

Mississippi needs to consolidate many smaller districts so the players could player better competition. Many places in North Ms fight consolidation tooth and nail bc of losing a community school and bc of basketball (no football)

We arent that far behind. Bama and Auburn were just better than us and OM. Its simple

[Hasu Dackds]

I don't think so. If it was, Georgia would be super top level, as well as Florida. And Alabama would only be mediocre. It may correlate better with population on the lower end (Mississippi, Arkansas, Kentucky).
There is a point of diminishing returns. Bottom line Alabama has 'enough' talent, plus they have the best coach. I personally think you need about 2.5 million in population per school, and have the right black/white percentage (sorry, in 2017 black guys are more likely play football - facts).

[Hasu Dackds]

Resources enable you find good coaching, not the other way around, unless you are plumb lucky.....and even then, if you don't have resources, that good coach you found because you were lucky won't be around long

I don't know why this is that hard, or even up for debate

[Joethedawg1]

I know its partly about population but I'm talking about athletic talent, coach-ability, and coaching of said athletes.

Mississippi needs to consolidate many smaller districts so the players could player better competition. Many places in North Ms fight consolidation tooth and nail bc of losing a community school and bc of basketball (no football)

The population of Alabama is approximately 4.8 million, while the population of Mississippi s 2.9 million or so. That gives Alabama almost two million more people from which to choose. You have to consider that!!

[Indndawg]

You hit the nail on the head right there.

I will add this:

I am advocate of taking all sports away from the school system. The Cities and counties could fund it separately and employ the coaches full time to do nothing but coach and be custodians. Most of them don't teach shit anyway other than a study hall and then not even show up for that. Most pride themselves on how little they have to do in a real classroom. They just want to coach, then let them coach and get them away from the school.

And please don't tell me how they bring in $$$ at the gate, there is no way they can pay all those coaches not to teach all day long and come out ahead.

We would finally get educators in charge of schools. We would no longer get coaches moving into principals and principals into superintendents while having never actually taught real classrooms.

We might even get better more dedicated coaches that don't have to be at a school at 7 am and not get home until after midnight on game days. A full time designated coach would do a better job and be less taxing on the schools.

Think about it. Would you like going into work a 7 in the morning and then not starting your job until 9 hrs later. The rest of the day you spend trying to get out of work. That life has to suck.
Bravo again

[MetEdDawg]

I think it's also the depth of talent. Look at how many guys we sign that played multiple positions in the state of MS. A ton of our guys and others that are recruited in state played multiple positions in high school. RB/LB, OL/DL, QB/WR/S. I mean that kind of stuff happens all over in MS.

That doesn't happen in Alabama. The guys getting looked at by colleges don't play multiple positions after 9th grade, at least not in 5A through 7A. They play one position. I teach at a 7A school and we don't have a single player that plays both ways and we will have a good amount of guys play D1 over the next 3 years. They play one position. These skill guys in MS that will eventually play WR or CB at college play QB in high school. Or they play QB/WR/CB in high school.

I'll also add that if you look at the QB play in Alabama, it's so much further ahead than MS. There's 2 guys from 2017 listed as pro style QBs, one of which committed to Arkansas and the other committed to Vandy. Then for 2018 you've got one already committed to Stanford, and one committed to Missouri. Then for 2019 you have 3 guys currently rated 87 or higher on 24/7, and eventually all 3 will be rated at 90 or above and go to either an SEC school or a top program. Also if you look at the Top 4 guys currently in Alabama for 2019, 3 of them are OL and they will all 3 stay in state and go to either Bama or Auburn.

MS doesn't have this, especially at the QB position. MS is not producing talent at the really important positions (QB, OL, WR) necessary for MSU to be competitive nationally or in the SEC. They just aren't. We've already seen us have to go out of state for our QBs, but right now we are not doing a good job of that at OL and WR. And what are our weakest positions? OL and WR. There are a couple every year that might be SEC caliber, but they don't always stay.

If you want to be enlightened in recruiting and the difference between AL and MS, go to 24/7 and go look at state rankings and position rankings and see how guys over the last 5-7 years have panned out in AL and in MS. It's very interesting.

[AROB44]

Alabama players are much more physically ready for college ball than Miss players. Just look at the MS/AL high school all star game. Alabama always wins....and it is not all on coaching. I had rather sign a 3* player from Ala than a 4* player from Miss.

[coachnorm]

I can not comment about the situation of high school coaching in Mississippi but I can tell you something about California. I have three years of JC coaching and 16 years high school. First thing I want to bring up to fellow elite doggers is faculties are becoming more female because teachers are not well paid. Many of the male faculty have had enough of school kids after eight hours, thus a shortage of faculty for football coaches.

Coaches in California are certified thru the California Interscholastic Federation and not the schools Almost 60% of high school football coaches are walk ons. Many great coaches simply can not afford to teach thus they work and commute to various high schools in State. My last years of coaching at Southwestern JC were brutal because I am also teamed up with the US Navy F/A-18 program. At one point I was working for two teams and burned out. I will retire early next year and am ready to full time coach without a second distraction.

Because I have other employment, I simply work for a seasonal stipend. Other great coaching prospect simply can not coach because of their 9 to 5 jobs. If a high school football program can access coaches there can be successes but it can get difficult without good fortune of good money be it one State or another

[Bothrops]

Alabama players are much more physically ready for college ball than Miss players. Just look at the MS/AL high school all star game. Alabama always wins....and it is not all on coaching. I had rather sign a 3* player from Ala than a 4* player from Miss.

It's because they have a much bigger pool to select their top players from. MS is at a disadvantage in this game because of growing population differences of MS/AL.

[Dawgology]

If you don't keep up with recruiting, you wouldn't know that Bama gets not only the best from Alabama, but the best from Florida, Texas, California, etc. Saban has taken the freight train known as Alabama, and added a jet engine and rocket boosters to it.
That's why the Colin Cowherd's of the world are saying that Bama's dominance is bad for college football, and I tend to agree. They are nearly unbeatable. Only a team like a Clemson or Ohio State has a SHOT.

I posted this same sentiment several years back and was told I was stupid. It's real. One of two things will happen: 1) The blue-blood super-power schools will split into their own division of about 16 schools or 2) college football will quickly head the way of the NFL with declining numbers and interest until it becomes a truly amateur sport once again.

[Hasu Dackds]

I think it's also the depth of talent. Look at how many guys we sign that played multiple positions in the state of MS. A ton of our guys and others that are recruited in state played multiple positions in high school. RB/LB, OL/DL, QB/WR/S. I mean that kind of stuff happens all over in MS.

That doesn't happen in Alabama. The guys getting looked at by colleges don't play multiple positions after 9th grade, at least not in 5A through 7A. They play one position. I teach at a 7A school and we don't have a single player that plays both ways and we will have a good amount of guys play D1 over the next 3 years. They play one position. These skill guys in MS that will eventually play WR or CB at college play QB in high school. Or they play QB/WR/CB in high school.

I'll also add that if you look at the QB play in Alabama, it's so much further ahead than MS. There's 2 guys from 2017 listed as pro style QBs, one of which committed to Arkansas and the other committed to Vandy. Then for 2018 you've got one already committed to Stanford, and one committed to Missouri. Then for 2019 you have 3 guys currently rated 87 or higher on 24/7, and eventually all 3 will be rated at 90 or above and go to either an SEC school or a top program. Also if you look at the Top 4 guys currently in Alabama for 2019, 3 of them are OL and they will all 3 stay in state and go to either Bama or Auburn.

MS doesn't have this, especially at the QB position. MS is not producing talent at the really important positions (QB, OL, WR) necessary for MSU to be competitive nationally or in the SEC. They just aren't. We've already seen us have to go out of state for our QBs, but right now we are not doing a good job of that at OL and WR. And what are our weakest positions? OL and WR. There are a couple every year that might be SEC caliber, but they don't always stay.

If you want to be enlightened in recruiting and the difference between AL and MS, go to 24/7 and go look at state rankings and position rankings and see how guys over the last 5-7 years have panned out in AL and in MS. It's very interesting.

I am not sure I agree with this. You are a coach and have hands-on experience, and probably know better than me. However I have never thought specialization, in any way, was good for development, until you have topped out in ability. For example, the best high school players (that are good enough to go to college) usually can do many more things and can be versatile, while the guys where high school is their peak, are better off specializing.

I do agree about the MS production part. MS produces tons of defensive talent and not nearly enough offensive line and skill and when they do, they are incredibly raw. Not always a bad thing, just have to know it going in.

[Token Bammer]

Bama gets a lot less intrastate talent today than in years' past... We've been hammering LA and GA, especially....

But to answer your question: Yes... It may be proportional to population, though... I've not run the numbers.

Don't forget Texas, California, Maryland, awbarn (I know this isn't a state but we get who we want out of their backyard), etc. It's amazing how much less in state talent we take under Saban in comparison to the likes of Stallings. We basically take the cream off the top in state and leave the rest to *u, UGA, UT, etc and it matters not. Pretty remarkable.

[Hasu Dackds]

Don't forget Texas, California, Maryland, awbarn (I know this isn't a state but we get who we want out of their backyard), etc. It's amazing how much less in state talent we take under Saban in comparison to the likes of Stallings. We basically take the cream off the top in state and leave the rest to *u, UGA, UT, etc and it matters not. Pretty remarkable.
Again, go back and look at early classes. Saban slowly transitioned that. The entire early run was done with Alabama players, then once he had that national title he could scale that down and go get whoever he wanted. I thought it was a mistake at the time but he's been able to maintain it. He's one of the few that really can IMO.

2007: 14
2008: 18
2009: 10
2010: 9
2011: 7
2012: 7
2013: 7
2014: 6
2015: 7
2016: 6
2017: 8

[Token Bammer]

Again, go back and look at early classes. Saban slowly transitioned that. The entire early run was done with Alabama players, then once he had that national title he could scale that down and go get whoever he wanted. I thought it was a mistake at the time but he's been able to maintain it. He's one of the few that really can IMO.

2007: 14
2008: 18
2009: 10
2010: 9
2011: 7
2012: 7
2013: 7
2014: 6
2015: 7
2016: 6
2017: 8

Can't really look at 2007 much because he had very little time to recruit. Lucky for Alabama and Saban, the 2008 class was loaded in state and he was able to clean up both in state and in our region. Plus, he was able to go up to Michigan and sign an underrated Mark Ingram away from Michigan State. The 2008 class was unreal and many played immediately. Ironic as it is, the 2008 class really started with a five star talent from Mobile named BJ Scott. Once BJ committed (was truly the first big in state talent to fall that year) everyone in state started jumping on Alabama. BJ was a great recruiter and was very influential with the other kids. BJ never panned out at Alabama, but if he were to commit elsewhere the 2008 class never would have been what it was and the Saban/Alabama train would have been a lot slower to get rolling. One recruit really turned the Tide, so to speak. He committed very early in the cycle and that helped as well.

[Joe Schmedlap]

A 3* player in Alabama probably would be a 4* player if MS: smaller population in Ms and all...

QUOTE=AROB44;814147]Alabama players are much more physically ready for college ball than Miss players. Just look at the MS/AL high school all star game. Alabama always wins....and it is not all on coaching. I had rather sign a 3* player from Ala than a 4* player from Miss.[/QUOTE]

[MetEdDawg]

I am not sure I agree with this. You are a coach and have hands-on experience, and probably know better than me. However I have never thought specialization, in any way, was good for development, until you have topped out in ability. For example, the best high school players (that are good enough to go to college) usually can do many more things and can be versatile, while the guys where high school is their peak, are better off specializing.

I do agree about the MS production part. MS produces tons of defensive talent and not nearly enough offensive line and skill and when they do, they are incredibly raw. Not always a bad thing, just have to know it going in.

Well think about it this way. If I'm a kid and I play 3 positions on the field, and let's say I have 15 hours of position practice a week (just going with a number because it varies), there's a good chance I'm spending roughly 5 hours at each position. Some other kid down the road is spending all 15 of his hours at one position. You do that for 2 years of varsity football over let's just say 20 weeks of practice per year. The kid playing one position gets 600 hours of practice at that one position. The kid splitting time gets 200 hours of time at that same position, but his other 400 hours are spent at other positions he won't play in college.

That's 400 hours less of running routes, learning the intricacies of the position, doing the little things that make you better at that position. I think that's a huge difference.

[Hasu Dackds]

Well think about it this way. If I'm a kid and I play 3 positions on the field, and let's say I have 15 hours of position practice a week (just going with a number because it varies), there's a good chance I'm spending roughly 5 hours at each position. Some other kid down the road is spending all 15 of his hours at one position. You do that for 2 years of varsity football over let's just say 20 weeks of practice per year. The kid playing one position gets 600 hours of practice at that one position. The kid splitting time gets 200 hours of time at that same position, but his other 400 hours are spent at other positions he won't play in college.

That's 400 hours less of running routes, learning the intricacies of the position, doing the little things that make you better at that position. I think that's a huge difference.

Athletic ability always wins out. Honestly, the college coaches that can best identify this, rather than stars and refined peaked players, are usually the ones who overachieve.

[Schultzy]

On the plane from Miami to Tuscaloosa for the press conference.

Saban: Do you think you hired a great football coach?
AD: Yes
Saban: Well you didn’t. You hired a great recruiter.

Saban’s dad used to recruit kids to play on his travel teams in West Virginia and Nick was always with him.