Offensive thoughts after 5 games

[CadaverDawg]

We have a long bye week before another game, so I thought we could talk about the team and changes we would like to see made.

Personally, I think there are 2 ways we could go with the offense:

1) Accept that we have a subpar passer and extremely below average WR's, and go all in on the run.

I'm talking full fledged Relf Coast Offense. 2 TE's, 2 RB's, and a lot of plunging forward and eating clock. Despite the hate (and I do hate Hev), our OL is not nearly as big of an issue as our WR's right now. We averaged over 4 ypc vs UGA & AU despite no passing game at all. So we could totally go all in on the run, and only occasionally pull up on play action to TE's and RB's. It's not like we're taking shots down field anyway, and when we try our WR's can't get separation or our QB can't hit them...so utilize our best weapons by running our QB, our stable of RB's, & play action to our monster TE. I feel like had we done this against UGA & AU, at the very least we shorten the game and aren't blown out.

The problem with this option: It would not help develop Fitz as a passer for next year, so I think you'd have to commit to it for next year too. I don't think Dan would do it, bc that would be like admitting he couldn't develop Fitz, and I'm starting to wonder if he cares more about his QB guru Title than he does winning games.

2) Realize that we played 2 great defenses, and work on opening up the offense completely against teams we should beat the next few games.

I do think our WR's will find things easier in coming weeks, mainly because we'll be able to run the ball. But that's one of my biggest issues with Dan...he is not developing any type of game plan or offense for games where teams stop our run. This is the SEC, and you're going to face good defenses....you can't have your only inkling of a passing game be based off of play action when you're running the ball at will. That isn't reality, & isnt a recipe for success in big games, & in my opinion is why we lose all of them. We have to get WR's that can make plays, & a QB that doesn't require 3+ years of work before becoming a decent passer.

I think option 1 gives us the best chance for 2017 success, whereas option 2 better prepares us for 2018 and a potential big year where we will need to pass to accomplish a special season. It's time for Dan to make some adjustments and do what's best for MSU to win games & take steps forward...not just what better prepares QB's for the NFL & improves his QB Guru status. Either get the talent & playbook to run an effective passing game....or stop trying to pass altogether and run the ball with your strengths. But quit trying to run a balanced attack when you don't have a balanced talent base. You aren't fooling good teams with play action bc they aren't having to load the box. Develop a straight up passing game to complement the run & give us a chance to compete for the West.... or just go all in on the run and let's accept 8 wins but no beating the big boys. Bc everybody has you figured out...stop the run, you win.

[cuspid]

I'd settle for a passing attack that consisted of more than screens and 10 yd curls. Our receivers aren't good at holding on through contact so stop making them, and allowing DBs to sit on our routes

[Ifyouonlyknew]

1st 3 games we ran 64% of the time. These last 2 games we've run 55% despite being down & coming from behind pretty much the entire time both games. Saying he's trying to be a QB guru type offense is just false. The offense has looked bad but it's not because he decided to go to some passing offense. It looked bad because our bread & butter is the run game & if we get behind early or behind the sticks after 1st down we don't have the passing game to make up for it. I expect the run pass % to be around 60/40 - 65/35 run/pass the rest of the year like it was in the beginning of the season. We face 1 more elite caliber defense (Bama) so the run game will look better the rest of the year which will help the passing game. This isn't a team capable of throwing for 300yds/gm but we avg over 250yds/gm on the ground even after playing UGA & Auburn. I expect that to continue as the season goes on & competition lessens.

[BrunswickDawg]

I think a big difference in the passing game will be seen facing Passing D's that are far inferior to what we saw against AU (#2) and UGA (#4). A&M is #14 and Kentucky is #13. If we can get ANYTHING going thru the air against them we will open up the running attack more. AU and UGA just absolutely blanketed our receivers. Outside of Bama, I don't think anyone else we see will be able to do it like they did.

[Cooterpoot]

How bout we stop signing midget WRs and fat, slow OL that can't get out and block? We're stuck with what we've got this year. There is no cure all for this season beyond playing lesser opponents on our schedule after facing 2 of the top 3 teams in the SEC and probably top 5 teams in America.

[Liverpooldawg]

1st 3 games we ran 64% of the time. These last 2 games we've run 55% despite being down & coming from behind pretty much the entire time both games. Saying he's trying to be a QB guru type offense is just false. The offense has looked bad but it's not because he decided to go to some passing offense. It looked bad because our bread & butter is the run game & if we get behind early or behind the sticks after 1st down we don't have the passing game to make up for it. I expect the run pass % to be around 60/40 - 65/35 run/pass the rest of the year like it was in the beginning of the season. We face 1 more elite caliber defense (Bama) so the run game will look better the rest of the year which will help the passing game. This isn't a team capable of throwing for 300yds/gm but we avg over 250yds/gm on the ground even after playing UGA & Auburn. I expect that to continue as the season goes on & competition lessens.

Yep

[CadaverDawg]

1st 3 games we ran 64% of the time. These last 2 games we've run 55% despite being down & coming from behind pretty much the entire time both games. Saying he's trying to be a QB guru type offense is just false. The offense has looked bad but it's not because he decided to go to some passing offense. It looked bad because our bread & butter is the run game & if we get behind early or behind the sticks after 1st down we don't have the passing game to make up for it. I expect the run pass % to be around 60/40 - 65/35 run/pass the rest of the year like it was in the beginning of the season. We face 1 more elite caliber defense (Bama) so the run game will look better the rest of the year which will help the passing game. This isn't a team capable of throwing for 300yds/gm but we avg over 250yds/gm on the ground even after playing UGA & Auburn. I expect that to continue as the season goes on & competition lessens.

In no way shape or form was I saying we pass too much. I'm saying he either needs to call better pass plays, coach up the QB & WRs to create plays in the passing game, or just go 85% run and quit trying to pass. Bc the back shoulder, the checkdown, and the other 3 pass plays in our playbook aren't working. Expand the pass playbook & improve it, or get rid of it bc its garbage vs any D with a pulse with our current talent & coaching

And as for the Guru part. All the focus on back shoulder & checkdowns are all shit Mullen says is the current development phase. At some point, you just have to let a QB make a play, & not think he's wrong for going deep instead of checking down to his 5th option. Fitz is thinking too much in the passing game imo

[Tbonewannabe]

1st 3 games we ran 64% of the time. These last 2 games we've run 55% despite being down & coming from behind pretty much the entire time both games. Saying he's trying to be a QB guru type offense is just false. The offense has looked bad but it's not because he decided to go to some passing offense. It looked bad because our bread & butter is the run game & if we get behind early or behind the sticks after 1st down we don't have the passing game to make up for it. I expect the run pass % to be around 60/40 - 65/35 run/pass the rest of the year like it was in the beginning of the season. We face 1 more elite caliber defense (Bama) so the run game will look better the rest of the year which will help the passing game. This isn't a team capable of throwing for 300yds/gm but we avg over 250yds/gm on the ground even after playing UGA & Auburn. I expect that to continue as the season goes on & competition lessens.

The stat the announcers were throwing out there was if it was around 3 to 4 yards on 3rd down we would get it around 80% of the time but 5 yards dropped to around 30%. We either don't have the ability to use the TEs in the passing game or just can't get it to them. This group of WRs and TEs might be the worst group of pass catchers I have seen in a while. They either can't catch the ball with a DB on them or get zero separation. UGA and AU both have great defenses so it could be making them worse than they actually are but we might not get a first down against Bama. There isn't a reason that Bama should have a safety further than 10 yards from the line of scrimmage because we have zero deep threat in our passing game unless they bite on the run and someone is left alone downfield.

[Tbonewannabe]

In no way shape or form was I saying we pass too much. I'm saying he either needs to call better pass plays, coach up the QB & WRs to create plays in the passing game, or just go 85% run and quit trying to pass. Bc the back shoulder, the checkdown, and the other 3 pass plays in our playbook aren't working. Expand the pass playbook & improve it, or get rid of it bc its garbage vs any D with a pulse with our current talent & coaching

We are having to throw those because we have gotten zero separation. UGA was letting us checkdown all day because they weren't missing tackles so why not let us get 4 yards on 3rd and 10.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I no way shape or form was I saying we pass too much. I'm saying he either needs to call better pass plays, coach up the QB & WRs to create plays in the passing game, or just go 85% run and quit trying to pass. Bc the back shoulder, the checkdown, and the other 3 pass plays in our playbook aren't working. Expand it & improve it, or get rid of it bc its garbage vs any D with a pulse with our current talent & coaching

I get your frustration but those few passes worked the 1st 3 games. We were passing & completing just enough to keep the defenses honest. Then we ran into 2 of the best 3 defenses in the SEC & that plan didn't work. Here's a little secret no passing attack was going to work against them because our WR core is subpar. Add in being down & being forced into obvious passing downs makes it worse because yes most of our best pass plays are off of play action. Now we get back to teams with similar defenses to the teams in the 1st 3 games & watch these next 4 games our passing game will look so much better. Not great but better because we will be able to run against those defenses. Fitz will throw 7-8tds & 1-2ints the next month & he will look much improved. Then Bama will come to town & we'll have this same discussion again. What people are asking for with the passing game won't happen this year. Couch & Todd must continue to progress, Guidry has to be as advertised, & Heath & hopefully Whop have to come in ready to play. That's what will improve the passing game. More talent.

[CadaverDawg]

We are having to throw those because we have gotten zero separation. UGA was letting us checkdown all day because they weren't missing tackles so why not let us get 4 yards on 3rd and 10.

I know. So if there are no other options in the pass game, option 1 may be the only option.

Bc instead, we'll do the same shit we've been doing, but it will work against worse competition....and then we'll be back in the same spot next time we play a good team, bc we aren't changing a damn thing! We're just relying on shittier teams to create an illusion that we're adjusting. That's my premise of this entire thread...it's time to make strides against the good teams now if we want to take another step towards the West. We clearly aren't doing anything different in these games where we are out talented

[CadaverDawg]

I get your frustration but those few passes worked the 1st 3 games. We were passing & completing just enough to keep the defenses honest. Then we ran into 2 of the best 3 defenses in the SEC & that plan didn't work. Here's a little secret no passing attack was going to work against them because our WR core is subpar. Add in being down & being forced into obvious passing downs makes it worse because yes most of our best pass plays are off of play action. Now we get back to teams with similar defenses to the teams in the 1st 3 games & watch these next 4 games our passing game will look so much better. Not great but better because we will be able to run against those defenses. Fitz will throw 7-8tds & 1-2ints the next month & he will look much improved. Then Bama will come to town & we'll have this same discussion again. What people are asking for with the passing game won't happen this year. Couch & Todd must continue to progress, Guidry has to be as advertised, & Heath & hopefully Whop have to come in ready to play. That's what will improve the passing game. More talent.

They worked early because we were playing shit teams! That's my whole point! We do nothing to adjust & try to do something diff against the best teams. Just same shit & hope for a diff result

Did you read my first post? You're repeating what I know. So if we can't pass bc WR talent sucks....stop trying. Just run

[Ifyouonlyknew]

They worked early because we were playing shit teams! That's my whole point! We do nothing to adjust & try to do something diff against the best teams. Just same shit & hope for a diff result

Ok you said 1 of 2 options. 1 of your options is go 85% run. How can you do that against elite teams where it's harder to run? Esp when you got down quick in both games.

[Tbonewannabe]

I get your frustration but those few passes worked the 1st 3 games. We were passing & completing just enough to keep the defenses honest. Then we ran into 2 of the best 3 defenses in the SEC & that plan didn't work. Here's a little secret no passing attack was going to work against them because our WR core is subpar. Add in being down & being forced into obvious passing downs makes it worse because yes most of our best pass plays are off of play action. Now we get back to teams with similar defenses to the teams in the 1st 3 games & watch these next 4 games our passing game will look so much better. Not great but better because we will be able to run against those defenses. Fitz will throw 7-8tds & 1-2ints the next month & he will look much improved. Then Bama will come to town & we'll have this same discussion again. What people are asking for with the passing game won't happen this year. Couch & Todd must continue to progress, Guidry has to be as advertised, & Heath & hopefully Whop have to come in ready to play. That's what will improve the passing game. More talent.

Of course no offense is really going to look very good against those defenses but when will Dan figure out how to even field a competitive offense against great defenses? Is it simply getting better Oline and WRs? The only time Bama has struggled on D was against very good WRs. In 2014 when we made it close was our best WR group along with Dak. Bama will shut down our running game no matter what so when Dan has that happen he can't seem to adjust.

[tcdog70]

If we get ahead of the chains on first down then we will have a higher pass completion %. We have to be good at play-action. Play-action is where we can throw the ball. If it is second and 3 and run run play action we should be open. If it is second and 10 nobody is buying the play-action. The chance to make big gains in the passing game needs to come on second and short. If it is 2nd and 2 , I would prefer to take a shot down field. Low risk-high reward.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Of course no offense is really going to look very good against those defenses but when will Dan figure out how to even field a competitive offense against great defenses? Is it simply getting better Oline and WRs? The only time Bama has struggled on D was against very good WRs. In 2014 when we made it close was our best WR group along with Dak. Bama will shut down our running game no matter what so when Dan has that happen he can't seem to adjust.

Well pass around the collection plate for more of those elite WR & OL. That's what you need not a new scheme. It's always Been that way & always will.

[Tbonewannabe]

Ok you said 1 of 2 options. 1 of your options is go 85% run. How can you do that against elite teams where it's harder to run? Esp when you got down quick in both games.

This would result in about 40 yards of offense against Bama. Our Oline isn't good enough to do this but then our WR aren't good enough to compete with the scheme Dan normally does against Bama. I say we just let 3rd stringers play and rest our guys because there is zero chance we win this game. If the spread is lower than 20 I might put some money on it.

[Tbonewannabe]

Well pass around the collection plate for more of those elite WR & OL. That's what you need not a new scheme. It's always Been that way & always will.

Lewis, Bear, Ross, Gabe Myles, and Malcolm Johnson were a pretty good group. With Gabe hurt, we have zero players equal to even one of those guys. It is either our WR recruiting is below par of a Sunbelt team or our WR coaching doesn't exist unless they are just teaching them how to block.

[CadaverDawg]

Ok you said 1 of 2 options. 1 of your options is go 85% run. How can you do that against elite teams where it's harder to run? Esp when you got down quick in both games.

Bc at least you shorten the game & don't give them turnovers. You let your D rest. You aren't going to beat those teams still, but at least you're playing to strengths. And since we fail to recruit playmakers at WR, we don't really have a choice. At least we have talent at RB & QB, so we go down with our best athletes.

Basically, what I'm saying is....we either must improve WR & passing talent immensely, or we'd be better off trying to be the best 85% run team ever and try to beat the big boys that way....Bc trying to be a 40% passing team with this Poor talent, is pointless. And I'd rather win 8 games and lose 28-7 to Bama while shortening the game, than to win 8 games and lose 50-0 to Bama Bc we try to stay somewhat balanced with a bunch of NAIA receivers

[CadaverDawg]

Of course no offense is really going to look very good against those defenses but when will Dan figure out how to even field a competitive offense against great defenses? Is it simply getting better Oline and WRs? The only time Bama has struggled on D was against very good WRs. In 2014 when we made it close was our best WR group along with Dak. Bama will shut down our running game no matter what so when Dan has that happen he can't seem to adjust.

That's what I'm getting at

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Bc at least you shorten the game & don't give them turnovers. You let your D rest. You aren't going to beat those teams still, but at least you're playing to strengths. And since we fail to recruit playmakers at WR, we don't really have a choice. At least we have talent at RB & QB, so we go down with our best athletes.

Basically, what I'm saying is....we either must improve WR & passing talent immensely, or we'd be better off trying to be the best 85% run team ever and try to beat the big boys that way....Bc trying to be a 40% passing team with this Poor talent, is pointless. And I'd rather win 8 games and lose 28-7 to Bama while shortening the game, than to win 8 games and lose 50-0 to Bama Bc we try to stay somewhat balanced with a bunch of NAIA receivers

So you're not talking about this season you're talking about the future?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

And I'd rather win 8 games and lose 28-7 to Bama while shortening the game, than to win 8 games and lose 50-0 to Bama Bc we try to stay somewhat balanced with a bunch of NAIA receivers

I guess I don't get this. You were no more competitive in the 28-7 game but you just bled the clock to keep the score down.

[Tbonewannabe]

Bc at least you shorten the game & don't give them turnovers. You let your D rest. You aren't going to beat those teams still, but at least you're playing to strengths. And since we fail to recruit playmakers at WR, we don't really have a choice. At least we have talent at RB & QB, so we go down with our best athletes.

Basically, what I'm saying is....we either must improve WR & passing talent immensely, or we'd be better off trying to be the best 85% run team ever and try to beat the big boys that way....Bc trying to be a 40% passing team with this Poor talent, is pointless. And I'd rather win 8 games and lose 28-7 to Bama while shortening the game, than to win 8 games and lose 50-0 to Bama Bc we try to stay somewhat balanced with a bunch of NAIA receivers

We also won't try any type of trick play either. Why not come out and put a Wildcat QB in with Fitz out wide or something to at least try some misdirection. Dan has gotten into the pattern like Croom thinking he needs to just beat them straight up. We might not ever have the players to beat a Saban team straight up. If it didn't happen in 2014 then it probably won't ever happen. To win you have to throw everything you got at them. Hell, watch every trick play that has ever happened in the movies and try it. At least you might make Sportscenter for that instead of getting beat 66 - 3.

[confucius say]

Y'all need to go watch the auburn film. When we got the snap and went straight ahead with no ol pulling, no zone reads, etc... we averaged 6 yards a carry. That's what we should have done all night. 50 times instead of 15. They didn't stop it all night.

Until we get Guidry and Heath on campus, we need to be 80/20 run until game is in check. And bt the tackles.

[CadaverDawg]

I guess I don't get this. You were no more competitive in the 28-7 game but you just bled the clock to keep the score down.

Are you even trying to see the bigger picture I'm getting at? In other words, we are not beating Bama now or in the future without better WR's & a passing game....so until we get those, maybe our best option is to go full run so at least our talent is getting 90% of the touches. We likely still lose to all the big boys, but we'd have a better chance of competing with them by giving it to our talent & shortening the games, than to keep banging our heads against the wall with the same damn game plan and playbook and losing 50-3

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Are you even trying to see the bigger picture? In other words, we are not beating Bama now or in the future without better WR's & a passing game....so until we get those, maybe our best option is to go full run so at least our talent is getting 90% of the touches. We likely still lose to all the big boys, but we'd have a better chance of competing with them by giving it to our talent & shortening the games, than to keep banging our heads against the wall with the same damn game plan and playbook and losing 50-3

Obviously we're looking at 2 diff pictures because what you wrote & what I interpreted are totally diff. It's cool though. Let's go running 85%.

[CadaverDawg]

We also won't try any type of trick play either. Why not come out and put a Wildcat QB in with Fitz out wide or something to at least try some misdirection. Dan has gotten into the pattern like Croom thinking he needs to just beat them straight up. We might not ever have the players to beat a Saban team straight up. If it didn't happen in 2014 then it probably won't ever happen. To win you have to throw everything you got at them. Hell, watch every trick play that has ever happened in the movies and try it. At least you might make Sportscenter for that instead of getting beat 66 - 3.

I agree. We don't even try to be creative. Thank you, this is what I'm talking about.

[Tbonewannabe]

Are you even trying to see the bigger picture I'm getting at? In other words, we are not beating Bama now or in the future without better WR's & a passing game....so until we get those, maybe our best option is to go full run so at least our talent is getting 90% of the touches. We likely still lose to all the big boys, but we'd have a better chance of competing with them by giving it to our talent & shortening the games, than to keep banging our heads against the wall with the same damn game plan and playbook and losing 50-3

0% chance with our WRs < 3% chance running it all the time. Gotcha. We have the best chance running as close to a triple option as we can successfully. Fitz might even have a chance to throw it to a streaking WR or TE eventually.

[CadaverDawg]

Y'all need to go watch the auburn film. When we got the snap and went straight ahead with no ol pulling, no zone reads, etc... we averaged 6 yards a carry. That's what we should have done all night. 50 times instead of 15. They didn't stop it all night.

Until we get Guidry and Heath on campus, we need to be 80/20 run until game is in check. And bt the tackles.

I agree

[TrapGame]

Y'all need to go watch the auburn film. When we got the snap and went straight ahead with no ol pulling, no zone reads, etc... we averaged 6 yards a carry. That's what we should have done all night. 50 times instead of 15. They didn't stop it all night.

Until we get Guidry and Heath on campus, we need to be 80/20 run until game is in check. And bt the tackles.

YES! Mid way thru the 2nd quarter AW was moving the pile on every carry. We were forcing our run game on them. Instead of continuing to pound the rock we go right back to throwing to air.

[NCDawg]

Bc at least you shorten the game & don't give them turnovers. You let your D rest. You aren't going to beat those teams still, but at least you're playing to strengths. And since we fail to recruit playmakers at WR, we don't really have a choice. At least we have talent at RB & QB, so we go down with our best athletes.

Basically, what I'm saying is....we either must improve WR & passing talent immensely, or we'd be better off trying to be the best 85% run team ever and try to beat the big boys that way....Bc trying to be a 40% passing team with this Poor talent, is pointless. And I'd rather win 8 games and lose 28-7 to Bama while shortening the game, than to win 8 games and lose 50-0 to Bama Bc we try to stay somewhat balanced with a bunch of NAIA receivers

I think it would be worth a try. Go full "Relf coast offense" and see if they can stop it. It worked pretty good against Ole Miss in 2009, but I doubt if our current OL is as good as the 2009 OL. It is apparent that our passing attack is not working, so we need to try something different. Mullen is known as a great offensive mind, so he needs to improvise some type of offense that will keep us from getting blown out. These last 2 games were a disgrace.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

YES! Mid way thru the 2nd quarter AW was moving the pile on every carry. We were forcing our run game on them. Instead of continuing to pound the rock we go right back to throwing to air.

7 pre snap penalties was big part of that

[CadaverDawg]

I think it would be worth a try. Go full "Relf coast offense" and see if they can stop it. It worked pretty good against Ole Miss in 2009, but I doubt if our current OL is as good as the 2009 OL. It is apparent that our passing attack is not working, so we need to try something different. Mullen is known as a great offensive mind, so he needs to improvise some type of offense that will keep us from getting blown out. These last 2 games were a disgrace.

I agree. I expect him to adjust

[Cooterpoot]

Aries vs GA= 2.2 yrds per carry
Aries vs AU= 3.3 yrds per carry

We can't run and we didn't run well vs those defenses. Let's stop claiming we did.

Fitz went 4.3 and 4.7 per carry. When he averages less than 6, we lose. So he didn't run it well either. You guys can drop the late blowout yards, they don't really matter.

[dparker]

We also won't try any type of trick play either. Why not come out and put a Wildcat QB in with Fitz out wide or something to at least try some misdirection. Dan has gotten into the pattern like Croom thinking he needs to just beat them straight up. We might not ever have the players to beat a Saban team straight up. If it didn't happen in 2014 then it probably won't ever happen. To win you have to throw everything you got at them. Hell, watch every trick play that has ever happened in the movies and try it. At least you might make Sportscenter for that instead of getting beat 66 - 3.

+1

[confucius say]

Aries vs GA= 2.2 yrds per carry
Aries vs AU= 3.3 yrds per carry

We can't run and we didn't run well vs those defenses. Let's stop claiming we did.

Fitz went 4.3 and 4.7 per carry. When he averages less than 6, we lose. So he didn't run it well either. You guys can drop the late blowout yards, they don't really matter.

Go watch the film from auburn and see what happened all night when we got the snap and went straight ahead (yes I know fitz bounced it off tackle some when he got to the line).
Just look at our first play, perfect example. We should have made that a 3 yards and cloud of dust game. Think fla 2010 second half.

[Todd4State]

What I would do...

First of all we know that our offense works against lesser teams like LSU. So, no reason to change what's not broken against BYU, Kentucky, A&M- I'll get to them in a second, and UMass. And yes, A&M may beat us but again back to them in a second.

Basically, I would be gearing up for Alabama this bye week if I was Dan and there are two things I would consider.

1. Use an unbalanced line and use six o-linemen. My hope is that by using an unbalanced line it will confuse Alabama's defenders for at least a drive or two if we're lucky. I would go with LT- Rankin, C- Jenkins, LG- Calhoun/Story RG- Williams RT- Reese/Eiland. Then with the six man line I would take out a WR probably Mixon and add Story to the group as the sixth guy and make Rankin the eligible receiver because I figure he's the most athletic just in case the play breaks down. And I would use a lot of two RB sets and Jordan Thomas would be the primary WR in every formation. If they're going to put nine in the box - let's take a cue from Jackie and just get as big as possible.

2. Use three running back old school option sets and the diamond formation. We have run the diamond formation some this year against Auburn and I believe it worked pretty decently. This is where A&M comes in- I would run this some more against A&M along with the rest of our regular formations and try to perfect it some. As far as the old school stuff- run the Georgia Tech offense or at least a watered down version of it. Fitz ran it in high school and doing it one game won't ruin his QB development any more than some guy for Alabama ripping his head off doing our normal stuff. I would throw in some wishbone with Lee at FB, Aeris and Kylin as the A and B backs. And then run some misdirection, play action, wheel routes, and of course option and running plays of all kinds. The last time Alabama played a team like Georgia Southern- they ran through Alabama like "shit through a funnel" per Nick Saban. And that was with time to prepare and against a less talented team in Tuscaloosa.

The things I just mentioned I wouldn't show it on film for the Alabama game at all except for the diamond formation. We may not win doing it, but we should run some clock and the element of surprise plus home field advantage might give us a decent shot of making a game out of it.

[gravedigger]

We have a long bye week before another game, so I thought we could talk about the team and changes we would like to see made.

Personally, I think there are 2 ways we could go with the offense:

1) Accept that we have a subpar passer and extremely below average WR's, and go all in on the run.

I'm talking full fledged Relf Coast Offense. 2 TE's, 2 RB's, and a lot of plunging forward and eating clock. Despite the hate (and I do hate Hev), our OL is not nearly as big of an issue as our WR's right now. We averaged over 4 ypc vs UGA & AU despite no passing game at all. So we could totally go all in on the run, and only occasionally pull up on play action to TE's and RB's. It's not like we're taking shots down field anyway, and when we try our WR's can't get separation or our QB can't hit them...so utilize our best weapons by running our QB, our stable of RB's, & play action to our monster TE. I feel like had we done this against UGA & AU, at the very least we shorten the game and aren't blown out.

The problem with this option: It would not help develop Fitz as a passer for next year, so I think you'd have to commit to it for next year too. I don't think Dan would do it, bc that would be like admitting he couldn't develop Fitz, and I'm starting to wonder if he cares more about his QB guru Title than he does winning games.

2) Realize that we played 2 great defenses, and work on opening up the offense completely against teams we should beat the next few games.

I do think our WR's will find things easier in coming weeks, mainly because we'll be able to run the ball. But that's one of my biggest issues with Dan...he is not developing any type of game plan or offense for games where teams stop our run. This is the SEC, and you're going to face good defenses....you can't have your only inkling of a passing game be based off of play action when you're running the ball at will. That isn't reality, & isnt a recipe for success in big games, & in my opinion is why we lose all of them. We have to get WR's that can make plays, & a QB that doesn't require 3+ years of work before becoming a decent passer.

I think option 1 gives us the best chance for 2017 success, whereas option 2 better prepares us for 2018 and a potential big year where we will need to pass to accomplish a special season. It's time for Dan to make some adjustments and do what's best for MSU to win games & take steps forward...not just what better prepares QB's for the NFL & improves his QB Guru status. Either get the talent & playbook to run an effective passing game....or stop trying to pass altogether and run the ball with your strengths. But quit trying to run a balanced attack when you don't have a balanced talent base. You aren't fooling good teams with play action bc they aren't having to load the box. Develop a straight up passing game to complement the run & give us a chance to compete for the West.... or just go all in on the run and let's accept 8 wins but no beating the big boys. Bc everybody has you figured out...stop the run, you win.

#2 all day.

[Homedawg]

The problem w the thought of 2 te and 2 rb is this, it just brings more into the box. It doesn't solve anything. And if you run 85% of the time not only will it be tougher to run, it will absolutely crush the thought of being more creative **

[Homedawg]

What I would do...

First of all we know that our offense works against lesser teams like LSU. So, no reason to change what's not broken against BYU, Kentucky, A&M- I'll get to them in a second, and UMass. And yes, A&M may beat us but again back to them in a second.

Basically, I would be gearing up for Alabama this bye week if I was Dan and there are two things I would consider.

1. Use an unbalanced line and use six o-linemen. My hope is that by using an unbalanced line it will confuse Alabama's defenders for at least a drive or two if we're lucky. I would go with LT- Rankin, C- Jenkins, LG- Calhoun/Story RG- Williams RT- Reese/Eiland. Then with the six man line I would take out a WR probably Mixon and add Story to the group as the sixth guy and make Rankin the eligible receiver because I figure he's the most athletic just in case the play breaks down. And I would use a lot of two RB sets and Jordan Thomas would be the primary WR in every formation. If they're going to put nine in the box - let's take a cue from Jackie and just get as big as possible.

2. Use three running back old school option sets and the diamond formation. We have run the diamond formation some this year against Auburn and I believe it worked pretty decently. This is where A&M comes in- I would run this some more against A&M along with the rest of our regular formations and try to perfect it some. As far as the old school stuff- run the Georgia Tech offense or at least a watered down version of it. Fitz ran it in high school and doing it one game won't ruin his QB development any more than some guy for Alabama ripping his head off doing our normal stuff. I would throw in some wishbone with Lee at FB, Aeris and Kylin as the A and B backs. And then run some misdirection, play action, wheel routes, and of course option and running plays of all kinds. The last time Alabama played a team like Georgia Southern- they ran through Alabama like "shit through a funnel" per Nick Saban. And that was with time to prepare and against a less talented team in Tuscaloosa.

The things I just mentioned I wouldn't show it on film for the Alabama game at all except for the diamond formation. We may not win doing it, but we should run some clock and the element of surprise plus home field advantage might give us a decent shot of making a game out of it.

Can't have rankin as an eligible receiver on the line. There is no tackle eligible in college.

[BB30]

We also won't try any type of trick play either. Why not come out and put a Wildcat QB in with Fitz out wide or something to at least try some misdirection. Dan has gotten into the pattern like Croom thinking he needs to just beat them straight up. We might not ever have the players to beat a Saban team straight up. If it didn't happen in 2014 then it probably won't ever happen. To win you have to throw everything you got at them. Hell, watch every trick play that has ever happened in the movies and try it. At least you might make Sportscenter for that instead of getting beat 66 - 3.

With our ol those plays take to long to develop... have you not watched us when we have run trick plays against bama in the past they were horrible...

All of y'all talking about our passing game scheming/ playcalling please enlighten me on what you would change.. our WRs can't create seperation for sh** and several are not very good route runners so that takes away any double moves to create seperation... then add on all of the drops and we don't have a passing game...

There is absolutely nothing Dan could have done differently the last two weeks that would have gotten the offense rolling.. he could have called the games 5 different ways and the results would have been very similar... that is why he looks brilliant against teams we can compete with and pedestrian against elite defenses... any of y'all saying scared dan comes out in big games don't understand that certain things have to happen for our offense to click no matter how he calls the game. If our guys execute over the next few weeks I expect us to look pretty damn good.... only game we shouldn't be competitive in is obviously Bama..

[BB30]

Also, if we go more run heavy many on here will bitch about dan being to conservative and playing scared.... Some people on here that scream RTDF are the same ones that complain about scared Dan in Big games and playing not to get blown out.. that's nonsense... there isn't a human being on this earth that wants the Dogs to win more then our HC.

[Turfdawg67]

1st 3 games we ran 64% of the time. These last 2 games we've run 55% despite being down & coming from behind pretty much the entire time both games. Saying he's trying to be a QB guru type offense is just false. The offense has looked bad but it's not because he decided to go to some passing offense. It looked bad because our bread & butter is the run game & if we get behind early or behind the sticks after 1st down we don't have the passing game to make up for it. I expect the run pass % to be around 60/40 - 65/35 run/pass the rest of the year like it was in the beginning of the season. We face 1 more elite caliber defense (Bama) so the run game will look better the rest of the year which will help the passing game. This isn't a team capable of throwing for 300yds/gm but we avg over 250yds/gm on the ground even after playing UGA & Auburn. I expect that to continue as the season goes on & competition lessens.

Man, I wish more ppl could understand simple shit like this... instead posters on here think Mullen is being stubborn or ?cute?. You MUST pass to loosen up D?s like UGA, Auburn & Bama! They are gonna load the box, play softer on the corners and beg that you throw the underneath pass... which we have done, with very minimal success. Besides these 3 Defenses, we will be able to establish the run, which will open up the play action, which will allow our subpar WRs to get open, which will get Fitz in a groove, which will ultimately lead to a bunch of points.

[Todd4State]

Can't have rankin as an eligible receiver on the line. There is no tackle eligible in college.

That's fine. I want him for blocking anyway. Kind of a dumb rule if you ask me.

[Todd4State]

Also, if we go more run heavy many on here will bitch about dan being to conservative and playing scared.... Some people on here that scream RTDF are the same ones that complain about scared Dan in Big games and playing not to get blown out.. that's nonsense... there isn't a human being on this earth that wants the Dogs to win more then our HC.

I agree with you about Dan's play calling. I don't think it's the issue that it's made out to be and I think it's more about talent...which goes back to recruiting- than creativity. But we can run the ball and be creative/aggressive with it too.

For example as I said Dan ran the diamond formation against Auburn which is the first time I've seen us use it this year. That is a run heavy formation that is creative and aggressive at least to me.

[Homedawg]

That's fine. I want him for blocking anyway. Kind of a dumb rule if you ask me.

Just amazing you are ok w giving suggestions and don't know the rules. That would help.

[NCDawg]

Also, if we go more run heavy many on here will bitch about dan being to conservative and playing scared.... Some people on here that scream RTDF are the same ones that complain about scared Dan in Big games and playing not to get blown out.. that's nonsense... there isn't a human being on this earth that wants the Dogs to win more then our HC.

Then maybe he should take appropriate steps to accomplish that. First step is to get a good coach for the OL who can recruit and coach.

[Todd4State]

Just amazing you are ok w giving suggestions and don't know the rules. That would help.

On a message board? That's amazing to you? Really? You obviously think higher of my football acumen than even I do. I'm flattered I guess.

Giving opinions- or "suggestions" is better than what you do on here- which is basically troll without providing anything substantial to the board.

[Tbonewannabe]

That's fine. I want him for blocking anyway. Kind of a dumb rule if you ask me.

What you are talking about is basically putting Rankin at TE. Tunsil got a TD in the Sugar Bowl from them moving him to an eligible receiver. It would be the same thing so it technically would work.

[Tbonewannabe]

Just amazing you are ok w giving suggestions and don't know the rules. That would help.

The way he phrased it was odd but I thought the idea was moving an Olineman (Rankin) to the end with an unbalanced side, TTGCGT. What that would do is move Rankin to TE making him an eligible receiver. I believe you have to declare it before the play but it is legal.

[TrapGame]

Just as a "Did y'all See This?"

Did you guys see the Kansas City Chiefs use the diamond with the TE as the QB and the QB as the top of the diamond?

[NCDawg]

The way he phrased it was odd but I thought the idea was moving an Olineman (Rankin) to the end with an unbalanced side, TTGCGT. What that would do is move Rankin to TE making him an eligible receiver. I believe you have to declare it before the play but it is legal.

Correct. I saw Arkansas use it a couple of years ago, and everybody applauded their big tackle for the TD.

[Homedawg]

The way he phrased it was odd but I thought the idea was moving an Olineman (Rankin) to the end with an unbalanced side, TTGCGT. What that would do is move Rankin to TE making him an eligible receiver. I believe you have to declare it before the play but it is legal.

Wrong. A player wearing 50-79 can't be an eligible receiver. They can only catch it legally in the case of a lateral.

[Tbonewannabe]

Wrong. A player wearing 50-79 can't be an eligible receiver. They can only catch it legally in the case of a lateral.

Learn something every day. I didn't realize the Tunsil play was technically a lateral. So if we wanted Rankin to be eligible then he would have to change his jersey number.

[Barking 13]

What I would do...

First of all we know that our offense works against lesser teams like LSU. So, no reason to change what's not broken against BYU, Kentucky, A&M- I'll get to them in a second, and UMass. And yes, A&M may beat us but again back to them in a second.

Basically, I would be gearing up for Alabama this bye week if I was Dan and there are two things I would consider.

1. Use an unbalanced line and use six o-linemen. My hope is that by using an unbalanced line it will confuse Alabama's defenders for at least a drive or two if we're lucky. I would go with LT- Rankin, C- Jenkins, LG- Calhoun/Story RG- Williams RT- Reese/Eiland. Then with the six man line I would take out a WR probably Mixon and add Story to the group as the sixth guy and make Rankin the eligible receiver because I figure he's the most athletic just in case the play breaks down. And I would use a lot of two RB sets and Jordan Thomas would be the primary WR in every formation. If they're going to put nine in the box - let's take a cue from Jackie and just get as big as possible.

2. Use three running back old school option sets and the diamond formation. We have run the diamond formation some this year against Auburn and I believe it worked pretty decently. This is where A&M comes in- I would run this some more against A&M along with the rest of our regular formations and try to perfect it some. As far as the old school stuff- run the Georgia Tech offense or at least a watered down version of it. Fitz ran it in high school and doing it one game won't ruin his QB development any more than some guy for Alabama ripping his head off doing our normal stuff. I would throw in some wishbone with Lee at FB, Aeris and Kylin as the A and B backs. And then run some misdirection, play action, wheel routes, and of course option and running plays of all kinds. The last time Alabama played a team like Georgia Southern- they ran through Alabama like "shit through a funnel" per Nick Saban. And that was with time to prepare and against a less talented team in Tuscaloosa.

The things I just mentioned I wouldn't show it on film for the Alabama game at all except for the diamond formation. We may not win doing it, but we should run some clock and the element of surprise plus home field advantage might give us a decent shot of making a game out of it.

I can't add to your reputation.....

[thf24]

Wrong. A player wearing 50-79 can't be an eligible receiver. They can only catch it legally in the case of a lateral.

They can if they "report themselves as playing out of position," though I'm not sure whether that means simply declaring themselves as an eligible receiver, or that they can't line up in a traditional OL spot.

[NCDawg]

What I would do...

First of all we know that our offense works against lesser teams like LSU. So, no reason to change what's not broken against BYU, Kentucky, A&M- I'll get to them in a second, and UMass. And yes, A&M may beat us but again back to them in a second.

Basically, I would be gearing up for Alabama this bye week if I was Dan and there are two things I would consider.

1. Use an unbalanced line and use six o-linemen. My hope is that by using an unbalanced line it will confuse Alabama's defenders for at least a drive or two if we're lucky. I would go with LT- Rankin, C- Jenkins, LG- Calhoun/Story RG- Williams RT- Reese/Eiland. Then with the six man line I would take out a WR probably Mixon and add Story to the group as the sixth guy and make Rankin the eligible receiver because I figure he's the most athletic just in case the play breaks down. And I would use a lot of two RB sets and Jordan Thomas would be the primary WR in every formation. If they're going to put nine in the box - let's take a cue from Jackie and just get as big as possible.

2. Use three running back old school option sets and the diamond formation. We have run the diamond formation some this year against Auburn and I believe it worked pretty decently. This is where A&M comes in- I would run this some more against A&M along with the rest of our regular formations and try to perfect it some. As far as the old school stuff- run the Georgia Tech offense or at least a watered down version of it. Fitz ran it in high school and doing it one game won't ruin his QB development any more than some guy for Alabama ripping his head off doing our normal stuff. I would throw in some wishbone with Lee at FB, Aeris and Kylin as the A and B backs. And then run some misdirection, play action, wheel routes, and of course option and running plays of all kinds. The last time Alabama played a team like Georgia Southern- they ran through Alabama like "shit through a funnel" per Nick Saban. And that was with time to prepare and against a less talented team in Tuscaloosa.

The things I just mentioned I wouldn't show it on film for the Alabama game at all except for the diamond formation. We may not win doing it, but we should run some clock and the element of surprise plus home field advantage might give us a decent shot of making a game out of it.

That might be a pretty good idea. I remember Sherrill and Watson Brown surprised LSU by running the wishbone in Baton Rouge in '91 and won the game. As I remember, Sleepy Robinson was the QB and ran the wishbone to perfection.

[Homedawg]

They can if they "report themselves as playing out of position," though I'm not sure whether that means simply declaring themselves as an eligible receiver, or that they can't line up in a traditional OL spot.
No they can't. This is college not he NFL. Different rules.

[Todd4State]

Learn something every day. I didn't realize the Tunsil play was technically a lateral. So if we wanted Rankin to be eligible then he would have to change his jersey number.

Based on what I read yesterday- yes.

For this discussion- it doesn't really matter to me because I want us to add the extra blocker and not throw to him. Or anyone else. Which we can do legally as long as we don't throw it to him.

[Todd4State]

That might be a pretty good idea. I remember Sherrill and Watson Brown surprised LSU by running the wishbone in Baton Rouge in '91 and won the game. As I remember, Sleepy Robinson was the QB and ran the wishbone to perfection.

Yes. We pretty much surprised LSU and by the time they figured out what we were doing it was too late and we got 28 points out of it. With Saban and his guys it would be 14 at best if I had to guess. Watson Brown was an awesome OC. Too bad we couldn't get him at Joe Lee at the same time.

[Homedawg]

Based on what I read yesterday- yes.

For this discussion- it doesn't really matter to me because I want us to add the extra blocker and not throw to him. Or anyone else. Which we can do legally as long as we don't throw it to him.

Correct!