Recruiting- Maybe a Little Different Thought

[Todd4State]

I keep seeing that we need to "expand our recruiting base". I think it's actually the opposite. We need to recruit in state a little bit better. I remember when Dan first came to MSU he said something along the lines of "we're not going to let the next Walter Payton slip away" and I thought that was an awesome idea. The problem is recently that hasn't happened. The past two seasons per 247 state rankings we have signed 3 of the top 10 players in the state each year. Between 2013-2015 which I picked because there are still players on the team from those classes both averaged around 5-6 of the top 10 in the state. Only twice have we signed the top player in the state between 2013-2017- Chris Jones and Jeffrey Simmons. In fairness, we do a better job of getting the mid-level talent.

The problem is if we lose a lot of instate talent we aren't replacing them with someone of equal caliber out of state. And it's unreasonable to expect us to because the in state schools for those states are going to identify and take the top players in their respective states.

One thing that I think is encouraging is that based on my eye test most of the players that aren't coming to MSU are going to Ole Miss. I would suspect that yes, we will probably get most of those recruits over the next few years rather than them going out of state. I could be wrong- we will see. The few that are going out of state really sting though and there are some of those.

Another thing I have heard is that "Mississippi doesn't produce enough o-linemen and WR's". That isn't really true when you look at the NFL and the SEC. Gabe Jackson, Anthony Steen, Derek Sherrod, Bradley Sowell, and etc. have all played in the NFL recently. Alabama has Matt Womack and Scott Lashley. LSU has Saahdiq Charles and Cole Smith who is an UA AA committed. Ole Miss has Javon Patterson and Rod Taylor. And we have Martinas Rankin, and Dolla Bill plus we are redshirting Tommy Champion who was a top ten player. Plus Elgton Jenkins who is a good player and then Jamaal Clayborn was a solid SEC player who would and should be helping us out this year had we not foolishly burned his redshirt. So, this state produces o-line talent. We're just not identifying it or we're not landing it in recruiting. Instead, we've been settling for out of state projects- or even worse we're not signing anyone at all and hoping to count back until we find someone that Hevesy likes and will sign with us.

Wide receiver is similar. Heck- Mississippi has produced the best WR of all time in Jerry Rice. Beyond that Donte Moncrief is from Mississippi. AJ Brown and DK Metcalf were Army/UA AA talents as well from Mississippi. So yes, Ole Miss loves them some WR's. That said, Jaylen Smith who is the top WR at Louisville probably could have been had and at 6'3" could have been the outside target we needed this year and we totally passed on him. Malik Heath is an UA AA and I think John Patterson would be a higher ranked player if it was thought that he wouldn't have to go the JUCO route first. This might be a position group where we really benefit the most from Ole Miss being on probation plus Dan's reputation as a great QB coach.

Mississippi is actually pretty good across the board at all positions if you look at it in terms of a three year cycle versus a two year cycle. Except at QB. So, with Dan's QB whisperer reputation being what it is and we're starting to reap the benefits from that, if we have some recruiters that can clean out Mississippi we should be able to take the next step that we want to.

[Hasu Dackds]

This, and second tier talent from Alabama and Louisiana. Couple that with coaching relationships in other areas like Texas, Georgia or Florida. It isn't rocket science. But by and large, we should stick to the areas that WE can drive, but others have to fly AND drive.

[1bigdawg]

I keep seeing that we need to "expand our recruiting base". I think it's actually the opposite. We need to recruit in state a little bit better. I remember when Dan first came to MSU he said something along the lines of "we're not going to let the next Walter Payton slip away" and I thought that was an awesome idea. The problem is recently that hasn't happened. The past two seasons per 247 state rankings we have signed 3 of the top 10 players in the state each year. Between 2013-2015 which I picked because there are still players on the team from those classes both averaged around 5-6 of the top 10 in the state. Only twice have we signed the top player in the state between 2013-2017- Chris Jones and Jeffrey Simmons. In fairness, we do a better job of getting the mid-level talent.

The problem is if we lose a lot of instate talent we aren't replacing them with someone of equal caliber out of state. And it's unreasonable to expect us to because the in state schools for those states are going to identify and take the top players in their respective states.

One thing that I think is encouraging is that based on my eye test most of the players that aren't coming to MSU are going to Ole Miss. I would suspect that yes, we will probably get most of those recruits over the next few years rather than them going out of state. I could be wrong- we will see. The few that are going out of state really sting though and there are some of those.

Another thing I have heard is that "Mississippi doesn't produce enough o-linemen and WR's". That isn't really true when you look at the NFL and the SEC. Gabe Jackson, Anthony Steen, Derek Sherrod, Bradley Sowell, and etc. have all played in the NFL recently. Alabama has Matt Womack and Scott Lashley. LSU has Saahdiq Charles and Cole Smith who is an UA AA committed. Ole Miss has Javon Patterson and Rod Taylor. And we have Martinas Rankin, and Dolla Bill plus we are redshirting Tommy Champion who was a top ten player. Plus Elgton Jenkins who is a good player and then Jamaal Clayborn was a solid SEC player who would and should be helping us out this year had we not foolishly burned his redshirt. So, this state produces o-line talent. We're just not identifying it or we're not landing it in recruiting. Instead, we've been settling for out of state projects- or even worse we're not signing anyone at all and hoping to count back until we find someone that Hevesy likes and will sign with us.

Wide receiver is similar. Heck- Mississippi has produced the best WR of all time in Jerry Rice. Beyond that Donte Moncrief is from Mississippi. AJ Brown and DK Metcalf were Army/UA AA talents as well from Mississippi. So yes, Ole Miss loves them some WR's. That said, Jaylen Smith who is the top WR at Louisville probably could have been had and at 6'3" could have been the outside target we needed this year and we totally passed on him. Malik Heath is an UA AA and I think John Patterson would be a higher ranked player if it was thought that he wouldn't have to go the JUCO route first. This might be a position group where we really benefit the most from Ole Miss being on probation plus Dan's reputation as a great QB coach.

Mississippi is actually pretty good across the board at all positions if you look at it in terms of a three year cycle versus a two year cycle. Except at QB. So, with Dan's QB whisperer reputation being what it is and we're starting to reap the benefits from that, if we have some recruiters that can clean out Mississippi we should be able to take the next step that we want to.

One of our problems is that Hev is slow to like many players. if they don't come to our camp where he can scout them without leaving Starkville, we are very slow to offer. Polk did the same thing in his last years.

[TrapGame]

I saw 247 has the 2019 recruiting class at #9. That's absolutely amazing. And a lot of it is the om implosion.

I'd like to see Dan lock down in-state recruiting and then try to capitalize on LSU's fall to mediocrity over the next two or three years. And we can compliment the in-state haul with some four stars out of LA we can really have some talent and depth.

[AROB44]

One of our problems is that Hev is slow to like many players. if they don't come to our camp where he can scout them without leaving Starkville, we are very slow to offer. Polk did the same thing in his last years.

What is Gonzales' excuse? These are the worst receivers that I can remember.

[parabrave]

One of our problems is that Hev is slow to like many players. if they don't come to our camp where he can scout them without leaving Starkville, we are very slow to offer. Polk did the same thing in his last years.

Thats not only Hev. Gonzales told methe same thing few years ago. I told him that was the laziest excuse I ever heard.

[HaggardDawg]

That train of thought from Hev, Gonzo, and Mullen comes from them thinking we're okay with mediocrity so they can coast a little...a lot for Hev. There is no sense of urgency with some of this staff including Mullen.
Case in point. Two years ago Mullen literally told Ricky Woods at Starkville to "send me your players". We wanted AJ and I know the shenanigans that may have happened with OM and AJ, but we got lazy with him per Woods. We acted like we were entitled to him. That pissed off Woods and AJ and Woods found it insulting that Mullen just expected for him to steer players to us.

[IMissJack]

This, and second tier talent from Alabama and Louisiana. Couple that with coaching relationships in other areas like Texas, Georgia or Florida. It isn't rocket science. But by and large, we should stick to the areas that WE can drive, but others have to fly AND drive.

The entire university is not doing crap in TX (all student recruiting) compared to other SEC schools, including OM.

[32 Dive]

The entire university is not doing crap in TX (all student recruiting) compared to other SEC schools, including OM.

Given our Alumni base in Houston, if true, that is disappointing...

[Quaoarsking]

That train of thought from Hev, Gonzo, and Mullen comes from them thinking we're okay with mediocrity so they can coast a little...a lot for Hev. There is no sense of urgency with some of this staff including Mullen.
Case in point. Two years ago Mullen literally told Ricky Woods at Starkville to "send me your players". We wanted AJ and I know the shenanigans that may have happened with OM and AJ, but we got lazy with him per Woods. We acted like we were entitled to him. That pissed off Woods and AJ and Woods found it insulting that Mullen just expected for him to steer players to us.

If you're a high school coach in an SEC college town, you should steer your players to the local school. How is that not just a given?

[Todd4State]

If you're a high school coach in an SEC college town, you should steer your players to the local school. How is that not just a given?

We shouldn't count on high school coaches to do our recruiting solely for us. Even the local ones. Just because a player is from Starkville, West Point, Columbus, or Louisville it doesn't mean that we can coast in recruiting.

[Todd4State]

That train of thought from Hev, Gonzo, and Mullen comes from them thinking we're okay with mediocrity so they can coast a little...a lot for Hev. There is no sense of urgency with some of this staff including Mullen.
Case in point. Two years ago Mullen literally told Ricky Woods at Starkville to "send me your players". We wanted AJ and I know the shenanigans that may have happened with OM and AJ, but we got lazy with him per Woods. We acted like we were entitled to him. That pissed off Woods and AJ and Woods found it insulting that Mullen just expected for him to steer players to us.

Hopefully that is about to change.

[IMissJack]

Given our Alumni base in Houston, if true, that is disappointing...

I'm telling you, I have been involved in the alumni in Houston a few years ago. We now have one recruiter full time out here, but MSU depends on volunteer alums to cover all the college night stuff also. I'm just saying, TX is a priority for OM, ARK, LSU, etc. At my son's graduation, probably more to ARK and LSU than other SEC schools (other than A&M). OM gets a lot too. Ark has a tremendous out of state tuition deal, that is netting them all kinds of TX kids, including 2 on my street.

[RocketDawg]

Given our Alumni base in Houston, if true, that is disappointing...

What can alumni do? If you're a booster, you can't recruit. If you're not a booster, you probaby don't care.

[Hasu Dackds]

I'm telling you, I have been involved in the alumni in Houston a few years ago. We now have one recruiter full time out here, but MSU depends on volunteer alums to cover all the college night stuff also. I'm just saying, TX is a priority for OM, ARK, LSU, etc. At my son's graduation, probably more to ARK and LSU than other SEC schools (other than A&M). OM gets a lot too. Ark has a tremendous out of state tuition deal, that is netting them all kinds of TX kids, including 2 on my street.
I'm not sure it's a great idea to stake our future on out-of-state kids. Are they going to graduate and go right back to Texas? If so, that's nothing but a short-term money grab.

[HaggardDawg]

If you're a high school coach in an SEC college town, you should steer your players to the local school. How is that not just a given?

As a coach, no, you don't do that. The local school should have an advantage from an evaluation and proximity to home standpoint but a high school coach SHOULD have the best interest of his players in mind over loyalty to the local university. Mullen or anybody else should not feel entitled to those kids. You should still recruit them hard and build the relationship.

[RocketDawg]

I'm not sure it's a great idea to stake our future on out-of-state kids. Are they going to graduate and go right back to Texas? If so, that's nothing but a short-term money grab.

That happens with college graduates regardless of what school they go to. They go where the jobs in their fields are, and in many cases they'll be able to go to many places. There are graduates here from every state. Not sure how you can expect them to stay in the state.

[dawgday166]

That happens with college graduates regardless of what school they go to. They go where the jobs in their fields are, and in many cases they'll be able to go to many places. There are graduates here from every state. Not sure how you can expect them to stay in the state.

Yea ... really. Not sure I understand his post either. There's people from MSU all over the country and probably a lot that are out of the country too.

[Hasu Dackds]

That happens with college graduates regardless of what school they go to. They go where the jobs in their fields are, and in many cases they'll be able to go to many places. There are graduates here from every state. Not sure how you can expect them to stay in the state.
Then I'm not sure how you can expect MSU or the state of Mississippi to flourish over the long term.

I don't have the answers, but I'm aware of the hard reality.

[Maroonthirteen]

I was trying to remember today. The kids OM got (in the ca$h era of recruiting) that we went head to head on. CJ Johnson and ?????

We weren't getting AJ Brown. If OM doesn't bribe him, he is gone to Bama. Correct? The Conner kid from Batesville. He was going to Bama too.

My point is, OM getting the NCAA hammer will help but it isn't going to be an automatic windfall For us.

[missouridawg]

I was trying to remember today. The kids OM got (in the ca$h era of recruiting) that we went head to head on. CJ Johnson and ?????

We weren't getting AJ Brown. If OM doesn't bribe him, he is gone to Bama. Correct? The Conner kid from Batesville. He was going to Bama too.

My point is, OM getting the NCAA hammer will help but it isn't going to be an automatic windfall For us.

OM is t necessarily the ones stealing from here.... I realize it's Bama, but they've currently got 4 MS kids that would be seeing a lot of playing time for us. Imagine a Raekwon Davis and Jeffrey Simmons DL...

[Todd4State]

I was trying to remember today. The kids OM got (in the ca$h era of recruiting) that we went head to head on. CJ Johnson and ?????

We weren't getting AJ Brown. If OM doesn't bribe him, he is gone to Bama. Correct? The Conner kid from Batesville. He was going to Bama too.

My point is, OM getting the NCAA hammer will help but it isn't going to be an automatic windfall For us.

That's the end of the story on those players- but not necessarily the whole story on them. Before the end of the story on their recruitment happened, MSU had a chance to most of those players but failed to do so. CJ Johnson, Brassell and Whitehead were all committed to us and possibly Singleton was privately committed to us. My guess is those were cases that we would have handled better in 2017- and Dan probably would have told them to just take Ole Miss's money and come to MSU like he did Leo and other recruits.

Brown sounds like a case of he was in Starkville and Dan thought we didn't have to recruit him very hard and wanted the coach to do our recruiting for us. By the way that's also Hevesy's territory or at least it was at the time and was Billy G's position group. Same class where we lost Lashley- also in Hevesy's territory. I wouldn't be surprised if we just wanted Johnie Cooks and Chris Chambless to recruit for us as well and Alabama just outworked us.

Conner is essentially the same as a player from Louisville or Columbus for us but relative to Ole Miss. It's not unrealistic to expect Ole Miss to get most of their players no matter the situation.

Ole Miss getting the hammer absolutely will and should help us- but you are right in that we are still going to have to work to recruit the best in the state.

[IMissJack]

I'm not sure it's a great idea to stake our future on out-of-state kids. Are they going to graduate and go right back to Texas? If so, that's nothing but a short-term money grab.

35% of MSU Fr this year were from out of state, including my son. The only way I know to keep people in MS after graduation is to tie a period of service to financial aid, like in the military.