Death Penalty Pondering (Not team specific)

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Many have stated over the course of the multiple NCAA investigations, and have popped up in the FBI investigations, that an NCAA death penalty is off the table. Why?

I ask because I am thoroughly convinced the only way "cheating" will stop, as many have stated, is to make the penalties so severe that people will stop doing it (or at least think twice). College football is a completely different monster than it was in the SMU 80s, so a death penalty sentence would most likely not have the same reverberating effects as it did then, however the individual schools would suffer harsh enough penalties to set them back, athletically, for years.

College Basketball is only a revenue-generating sport for a handful of teams, so shutting a program down for a few years would probably not hurt much else.

Nobody makes money on college baseball. (Sorry, not getting into any other sports)

40 years ago, if a powerhouse team was given the death penalty, the entire conference suffered a massive/catastrophic loss. Today's college football seems much different. Granted, if Alabama folded, they'd bring Auburn with them, and then the west would have issues, but I feel like the other teams have enough of a fanbase/network share to pick up the slack. Maybe I'm giving it all too much credit. And granted, shutting down an entire athletic program would be incredibly painful to a University, but isn't that the point? If the University is there to educate students (I know, utopia) and they are found breaking student-geared rules to enhance the profitability of the University, should the University as a whole not be punished?

Am I missing something? (more than likely so, but thought it would be an interesting question to pose to the group while we wait on more shoes to drop in other events)

[dawgclub99]

The NCAA has made it more apparent that they want to punish individuals more than the institution. SMU was never the same after the death penalty and I think the NCAA doesn't want to hurt the athletes that didn't really do anything and go more after the individuals that are doing the cheating.

[Jack Lambert]

The NCAA has made it more apparent that they want to punish individuals more than the institution. SMU was never the same after the death penalty and I think the NCAA doesn't want to hurt the athletes that didn't really do anything and go more after the individuals that are doing the cheating.

That's why they allow them to transfer.

[BrunswickDawg]

If they probation and penalties go by the matrix, then those blatantly cheating will be hit hard - like USC was - but they can recover. I'm ok with that. The key thing is that they need to make sure that the culture at the offending institution changes, and that the same schools aren't back for round two within a 10-15 year period. That may mean the NCAA should take over compliance at offending schools to insure that they take things seriously.

[ShotgunDawg]

The NCAA has made it more apparent that they want to punish individuals more than the institution. SMU was never the same after the death penalty and I think the NCAA doesn't want to hurt the athletes that didn't really do anything and go more after the individuals that are doing the cheating.

to me, the "SMU was never the same" reason is WAY overplayed.

SMU wasn't the same because the Southwest Conference blew up. Sure, the death penalty probably didn't help SMU get in the Big 12, but, if the Southwest Conference would've lasted, SMU would be fine today.

If an SEC school got a 2 year death penalty and the began playing football in the SEC 2 years later, I don't believe the DP would have any affect on the long term potential of the program.

[Todd4State]

My thing about the death penalty is this- just because it ruined SMU it doesnt mean it would take someone else 20 years to recover.

[Dallas_Dawg]

The NCAA has made it more apparent that they want to punish individuals more than the institution. SMU was never the same after the death penalty and I think the NCAA doesn't want to hurt the athletes that didn't really do anything and go more after the individuals that are doing the cheating.

^^^Who is your favorite QB of all time, Archie or Eli?

[bostondawg]

Exactly. The reason SMU never recovered wasn't because of the death penalty. It was because the SWC broke up and college football had a money/facilities/TV revolution. SMU missed those things and got left behind. It wouldn't kill a program today.

[BulldogBear]

to me, the "SMU was never the same" reason is WAY overplayed.

SMU wasn't the same because the Southwest Conference blew up. Sure, the death penalty probably didn't help SMU get in the Big 12, but, if the Southwest Conference would've lasted, SMU would be fine today.

If an SEC school got a 2 year death penalty and the began playing football in the SEC 2 years later, I don't believe the DP would have any affect on the long term potential of the program.

This

Also, the NCAA has handed down the DP many times since then, just not in FBS football.

[Todd4State]

Exactly. The reason SMU never recovered wasn't because of the death penalty. It was because the SWC broke up and college football had a money/facilities/TV revolution. SMU missed those things and got left behind. It wouldn't kill a program today.

Correct. There are really several factors too.

SMU is a well respected school academically. And I think the higher ups there had enough and were embarrassed to the point where it was "I don't care how bad we are we're going to run a clean program." That's not Ole Miss. Even after they got the death penalty they would probably just start cheating again- maybe with more caution. No more Nkemdiche classes.

You mentioned the death of the SWC- no way SMU would have been invited to the Big 12 with or without the death penalty. SEC isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

SMU was also one of the smaller schools in the SWC- hence the rampant cheating to help make up the difference. Ole Miss is similar here.

SMU also didn't hire very many good coaches- that was a factor as well.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Louisville basketball and Ole Miss Football are going to find out if it's off the table.

[Liverpooldawg]

to me, the "SMU was never the same" reason is WAY overplayed.

SMU wasn't the same because the Southwest Conference blew up. Sure, the death penalty probably didn't help SMU get in the Big 12, but, if the Southwest Conference would've lasted, SMU would be fine today.

If an SEC school got a 2 year death penalty and the began playing football in the SEC 2 years later, I don't believe the DP would have any affect on the long term potential of the program.

SMU wasn't the same because they had to quit cheating. They hadn't been much at all for years until the Pony Excesses. They reverted back to that after the cheating stopped.

[ScreenCaptureThis]

to me, the "SMU was never the same" reason is WAY overplayed.

SMU wasn't the same because the Southwest Conference blew up. Sure, the death penalty probably didn't help SMU get in the Big 12, but, if the Southwest Conference would've lasted, SMU would be fine today.

If an SEC school got a 2 year death penalty and the began playing football in the SEC 2 years later, I don't believe the DP would have any affect on the long term potential of the program.


That’s exactly the point. The Swc was a unique animal. And if the sec team wouldn’t feel
The same pain, then why not cheat if you know the worst penalty available won’t be levied AND it wouldn’t completely crush you if it happened?

[Todd4State]

Another thing to think about- I know this isn't technically the death penalty but UAB was shut down for a couple of years and right now they are 2-2 at the moment and I doubt they will be down for 20 years.

[Reason2succeed]

I am confident that we WILL see the DP in FBS CFB again. It's only a matter of time. People have ran with the urban legend that the NCAA swore not to do it again like God flooding the earth. Not true. Someone will get popped for repeat violator and force the NCAA's hand. It very well might be our neighbors to the north if Mullen goes on another run and pisses their boosters off enough.

[Mimi's Babies]

Waiting for that day.... Rueing...