Cam Akers vs Kylin Hill

[ShotgunDawg]

On the college football pregame show, ESPN just did a live remote from FSU where they said, following a rigorous practice on Wednesday, Jimbo Fisher had decided that Cam Akers would definitely play against Alabama & likely be the #2 running back.

Now, my question is: Why can Akers play in his first game against Alabama as the #2 RB while we aren't sure if Kylin will play against Charleston Southern?

It's true that Akers may be a little more physically talented than Hill, but here are some assumptions I am making:

- FSU is more talented at RB than MSU. Meaning theoretically Akers has to be better to significantly better than Hill to play.

- Hill has been playing RB longer than Akers, which I presume means that Hill should have been advanced in the nuances of the position & pass blocking

So, what gives here?

Why can't Hill be our #2 RB or maybe #1?

I'm assuming that whoever Akers is competing with at FSU is as talented or more talented than D Lee, Gibson, & Murphy.

I'll be interested to see how it plays out on Saturday.

If MSU was playing FSU or Alabama on Saturday, would Kylin play?

If not, then why can Akers play but not Kylin?

I love the developmental side of our program, but it's at times like this, that I'd like to see Mullen show more sense of urgency to win & win now

[vv83]

On the college football pregame show, ESPN just did a live remote from FSU where they said, following a rigorous practice on Wednesday, Jimbo Fisher had decided that Cam Akers would definitely play against Alabama & likely be the #2 running back.

Now, my question is: Why can Akers play in his first game against Alabama as the #2 RB while we aren't sure if Kylin will play against Charleston Southern?

It's true that Akers may be a little more physically talented than Hill, but here are some assumptions I am making:

- FSU is more talented at RB than MSU. Meaning theoretically Akers has to be better to significantly better than Hill to play.

- Hill has been playing RB longer than Akers, which I presume means that Hill should have been advanced in the nuances of the position & pass blocking

So, what gives here?

Why can't Hill be our #2 RB or maybe #1?

I'm assuming that whoever Akers is competing with at FSU is as talented or more talented than D Lee, Gibson, & Murphy.

I'll be interested to see how it plays out on Saturday.

If MSU was playing FSU or Alabama on Saturday, would Kylin play?

If not, then why can Akers play but not Kylin?

I love the developmental side of our program, but it's at times like this, that I'd like to see Mullen show more sense of urgency to win & win now

Three ways I see it

1. Hill will play and be our number 2 behind Aeris but we don't know because Dan is hush hush leading up to games
2. Hill simply isn't our second best back
3. Dan is stubborn and just won't trust freshmen to handle the ball

[WPDawg]

On the college football pregame show, ESPN just did a live remote from FSU where they said, following a rigorous practice on Wednesday, Jimbo Fisher had decided that Cam Akers would definitely play against Alabama & likely be the #2 running back.

Now, my question is: Why can Akers play in his first game against Alabama as the #2 RB while we aren't sure if Kylin will play against Charleston Southern?

It's true that Akers may be a little more physically talented than Hill, but here are some assumptions I am making:

- FSU is more talented at RB than MSU. Meaning theoretically Akers has to be better to significantly better than Hill to play.

- Hill has been playing RB longer than Akers, which I presume means that Hill should have been advanced in the nuances of the position & pass blocking

So, what gives here?

Why can't Hill be our #2 RB or maybe #1?

I'm assuming that whoever Akers is competing with at FSU is as talented or more talented than D Lee, Gibson, & Murphy.

I'll be interested to see how it plays out on Saturday.

If MSU was playing FSU or Alabama on Saturday, would Kylin play?

If not, then why can Akers play but not Kylin?

I love the developmental side of our program, but it's at times like this, that I'd like to see Mullen show more sense of urgency to win & win now

Its easier to insert young talent amongst a lot of experienced talent. FSU has more experienced talent than MSU. If Akers and Hill swapped teams, would it be the same question? If HC and RB both swapped teams , would MSU fans be asking the same question? Doesn't matter to me. DM has been successful and I trust him to make the best decision for his team and the talent available.

[sack07]

On the college football pregame show, ESPN just did a live remote from FSU where they said, following a rigorous practice on Wednesday, Jimbo Fisher had decided that Cam Akers would definitely play against Alabama & likely be the #2 running back.

Now, my question is: Why can Akers play in his first game against Alabama as the #2 RB while we aren't sure if Kylin will play against Charleston Southern?

It's true that Akers may be a little more physically talented than Hill, but here are some assumptions I am making:

- FSU is more talented at RB than MSU. Meaning theoretically Akers has to be better to significantly better than Hill to play.

- Hill has been playing RB longer than Akers, which I presume means that Hill should have been advanced in the nuances of the position & pass blocking

So, what gives here?

Why can't Hill be our #2 RB or maybe #1?

I'm assuming that whoever Akers is competing with at FSU is as talented or more talented than D Lee, Gibson, & Murphy.

I'll be interested to see how it plays out on Saturday.

If MSU was playing FSU or Alabama on Saturday, would Kylin play?

If not, then why can Akers play but not
I love the developmental side of our program, but it's at times like this, that I'd like to see Mullen show more sense of urgency to win & win now

Because we were never in it for Akers I think we as State fans undervalued Akers talent. Hill is a good back but I don't think the two are interchangeable as some have suggested. There is a margin there.

I don't want this to sound as though I'm dogging Hill. I just think Akers talent was lost on us because he didn't consider us.

And to finish answering your question, I would say Hill will play.

[shoeless joe]

Its easier to insert young talent amongst a lot of experienced talent. FSU has more experienced talent than MSU. If Akers and Hill swapped teams, would it be the same question? If HC and RB both swapped teams , would MSU fans be asking the same question? Doesn't matter to me. DM has been successful and I trust him to make the best decision for his team and the talent available.

This is it. End of discussion

[ShotgunDawg]

Its easier to insert young talent amongst a lot of experienced talent. FSU has more experienced talent than MSU. If Akers and Hill swapped teams, would it be the same question? If HC and RB both swapped teams , would MSU fans be asking the same question? Doesn't matter to me. DM has been successful and I trust him to make the best decision for his team and the talent available.

I'd be interested to see how true this is.

Does FSU really have that much more experience on offense than us?

[ShotgunDawg]

Because we were never in it for Akers I think we as State fans undervalued Akers talent. Hill is a good back but I don't think the two are interchangeable as some have suggested. There is a margin there.

I don't want this to sound as though I'm dogging Hill. I just think Akers talent was lost on us because he didn't consider us.

And to finish answering your question, I would say Hill will play.

Maybe but I'm not totally sure on this. I mean, we saw them play together at the MS/AL game and, while Akers was a little more explosive, I thought Hill was more polished and smoother runner with more advanced instincts and vision.

Perhaps Akers has a higher ceiling, but as of last November he wasn't the more advanced running back.

[Schultzy]

The only difference between the two is Akers throws a prettier pass. Hill can run it just as well and I've seen them both live more than once.

And saw both live in the MS/AL game.

[ShotgunDawg]

I say all this to also make a point that I think Kylin is going to tote to rock a lot more than we think.

To me, it's hard justify otherwise unless MSU apparently has more depth at RB than FSU.

[BeardoMSU]

I'm about 12.99% sure it has to do with the quality of our O-line....our RB's have to be so athletic and talented, they have to essentially act as the 6th lineman to prevent a sack every time the ball is snapped.***

[RougeDawg]

Perkins over JROb. TRussell over Dak. Holloway over Aeris. Shall I continue on why a true freshman will not play? We don't even let the better Sophomores play on offense. Until dan changes his pattern, I will not expect anything different.

[Schultzy]

I'm about 12.99% sure it has to do with the quality of our O-line....our RB's have to be so athletic and talented, they have to essentially act as the 6th lineman to prevent a sack every time the ball is snapped.***
That's actually a good point against elite DL's so you might edit out those sarcasteriks.

ETA: Although at 12.99% it may be me who needs to edit

[RocketDawg]

Perkins over JROb. TRussell over Dak. Holloway over Aeris. Shall I continue on why a true freshman will not play? We don't even let the better Sophomores play on offense. Until dan changes his pattern, I will not expect anything different.

Didn't Sherrill do the same thing with Donte Walker? He came in as a trim and fast freshman, but Jackie didn't let him play. By the time he became an upper classmen and Sherrill played him all the time, he'd gained about 50 lbs and could hardly move. Am I remembering that correctly?

[BeardoMSU]

ETA: Although at 12.99% it may be me who needs to edit

You caught me....That's precisely why I included the sarcasterisks, lol.

[ShotgunDawg]

That's actually a good point against elite DL's so you might edit out those sarcasteriks.

ETA: Although at 12.99% it may be me who needs to edit

So your saying that FSU's OL vs Alabama is an easier matchup than MSU's OL vs Charleston Southern?

[Kyper]

Dan Mullen values experience and maturity and is extremely careful playing young talent. Hill will play some but until Mullen is satisfied he knows the playbook and can handle the pass-blocking demands at TB- Hill will be roaming the sidelines

[Anonymous]

Akers was an early enrollee.

[maroonmania]

Because FSU is not a developmental program.***

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Akers is not that better than Hill. Plus he has to learn to just be a RB. Hill has always been a RB. I think it is because we have more depth at RB than FSU does.

[Homedawg]

Didn't Sherrill do the same thing with Donte Walker? He came in as a trim and fast freshman, but Jackie didn't let him play. By the time he became an upper classmen and Sherrill played him all the time, he'd gained about 50 lbs and could hardly move. Am I remembering that correctly?

No he played. And played a lot.

[Bass Chaser]

Akers was an early enrollee.


^^This^^^

[biggun]

Didn't Sherrill do the same thing with Donte Walker? He came in as a trim and fast freshman, but Jackie didn't let him play. By the time he became an upper classmen and Sherrill played him all the time, he'd gained about 50 lbs and could hardly move. Am I remembering that correctly?

Donte did not start his freshman year but he played a lot and got a bunch of carries from game 1 throughout the season

[Dawgtini]

Because Dan knows how to yank chains and get folks worked up. Just look what he orchestrated against TSUN. **

[biggun]

If you threw out the Ole Miss game, would A Williams still have been the no doubt, #1 RB this season? Not saying he doesn't deserve to be the starter but who did not shred Ole Miss the last month of the season?? And it's not like he needed a Herculean effort to post the 191 yards, the holes were enormous, ask Nick.

If K Hill is the best "runner" that we have, he should play early and often, probably even start.

[RougeDawg]

Arkansas doing the unthinkable tonight. Starting a True freshman at TB. 81 yards so far on 9 carries. Guess he can pass block.

Not plying the younger studs more in their first year also hurts our recruiting. What 4-5 star wants to go somewhere and barely play when they can go to a different program that gets them on the field. For as much shit that Bucky did wrong, he made a point to her the young guys involved early and often, especially the studs. This catering approach goes a long way in the minds of 17-18 year old recruits.

[DownwardDawg]

Arkansas doing the unthinkable tonight. Starting a True freshman at TB. 81 yards so far on 9 carries. Guess he can pass block.

Not plying the younger studs more in their first year also hurts our recruiting. What 4-5 star wants to go somewhere and barely play when they can go to a different program that gets them on the field. For as much shit that Bucky did wrong, he made a point to her the young guys involved early and often, especially the studs. This catering approach goes a long way in the minds of 17-18 year old recruits.

We don't seem to have a problem getting RB's.

[Todd4State]

Well, I think Akers and Hill are two totally different types of running backs/players. I think Akers is more of an athlete guy that you can line up in the slot a little bit and also use at running back. I think Hill is an every down between the tackles kind of running back that can be a workhorse. I would have loved to have seen both of them at MSU together because I think they would have really complimented each other well. Maybe we'll get Jerrion Ealy in a couple of years and still have that kind of dynamic on our team. Who knows?

I think it's hilarious that we are fed different excuses throughout the season- one week they can't block, the next week they don't know the system, then they're fumbling. I would rather them just say "hey we want to redshirt this guy for the future or whatever" instead of the obvious BS. And it's hilarious that right as soon as Holloway got hurt all of a sudden "the light went on" for Aeris- he knows all of the assignments and is spending hours watching film... I mean come on.

That said- there's a BIG difference with our situation right now than last year. Aeris can get the job done the way Dan runs his offense. Holloway simply could not. And I'm not saying that Holloway is bad- but rather that Dan likes to run his running backs between the tackles a lot- which I like too. But Holloway could not do that. Aeris can. I think he'll probably rush for a thousand yards and get 10+ rushing touchdowns this year. I have no problem with that kind of production. So, my thing has always been if you want to redshirt or second string guys because they are young- that's fine. But don't do it at the expense of the team if the younger guys are actually better than the older guys.

So, bottom line- if he wants to redshirt Hill for the future that's fine because I know Aeris can do the job and I think Dontavian Lee could too. And I will even say that Hill could probably do it as well if needed. But at this point is Hill better than Aeris? Honestly probably not if I had to guess. If he is I doubt he's significantly better at this point in their respective careers. If Holloway was still here I would want Hill to start.

[Hail State]

It's only because of the way Mullen runs things. Of course Hill will play. Mullen is like Harbaugh and thinks not telling the fans and media shit is somehow gonna lead to a big victory. It's like the Keyaton Thompson redshirt talk. WTF are we talking about redshirting him for? We Only have two qbs on the team. We have no choice but to play him. We gonna ask Fitz to play in the fourth quarter when we're up 48 to 10 so maybe he'll blow a knee out? We also have another 4 star qb coming in next year. We're set at Qbs for the next few years. We could do like Bucky did with Shea and ask Thompson to step in after Fitz gets hurt 10 games after having no in game experience. The KT redshirt talk is dumb.

[Perpetual Underachiever]

TL;DR but thanks for sharing.

[TimberBeast]

DM has been successful and I trust him to make the best decision for his team and the talent available.

You trust Dan to start the better RB? Why?

[Prentis]

How good is Nick Gibson? The answer is we dont know. So let's see what the other guys can do first.

[Bdawg]

Not bothering OSU to play a freshman RB tonight either. 20+ carries and over 160 right now I believe! I seriously doubt they are void of talent at RB either.

Edit: 28 carries for 178 early in the 4th. Just checked

[ShotgunDawg]

You trust Dan to start the better RB? Why?

I don't. I expect Dan to play the RBs that are least likely to screw up. Actual ceiling and upside don't matter.

[msbulldog]

Can we not just build our roster and try the Saban method of reloading and not rebuilding?

[Cary Hudson's little bro]

5* True Freshman RB from tOSU last night got his QB killed twice bc he didn't know what to do when a DE stunts. JT Barrett caught two different rib shots bc that kid didn't block. We cannot lose Fitz so Kylin can have 5 carries a game.

We have 3 capable backs. Kylin should only pay in garbage time, if that.

[Anonymous]

I stand by my initial answer of Akers being an early enrolled as the difference, however...

The type of backs they are is definitely part of it. People also have to understand why Akers was so highly rated. You look at elite NFL RB's, one thing generally separates the pack of 100's of great college backs from those who are truly next level in the NFL and that is speed. There are so many really good 225 pound backs who can cut and be workhorses. What there aren't a ton of are 225 pound backs who can run a 4.4. Speed is the difference and you really can't teach it.

I think Hill was a better pure RB prospect, but the upside Akers has is really special. His frame and speed mean that he can potentially be a Peterson, Elliot, etc... The technique can be taught, pad level and blocking can be taught, vision can be learned and acquired... but not always speed, at some point you just aren't going to get any faster.



Just for reference, here are the 40 times of some of the elite and potentially elite RB's of the last decade.

AP: 4.4
Zeke: 4.45
LT: 4.45
Bell: 4.45

[smootness]

Maybe but I'm not totally sure on this. I mean, we saw them play together at the MS/AL game and, while Akers was a little more explosive, I thought Hill was more polished and smoother runner with more advanced instincts and vision.

Perhaps Akers has a higher ceiling, but as of last November he wasn't the more advanced running back.

Multiple national recruiting analysts thought Akers was one of the top few HS talents in the country, and at least one thought he was #1.

[smootness]

I stand by my initial answer of Akers being an early enrolled as the difference, however...

The type of backs they are is definitely part of it. People also have to understand why Akers was so highly rated. You look at elite NFL RB's, one thing generally separates the pack of 100's of great college backs from those who are truly next level in the NFL and that is speed. There are so many really good 225 pound backs who can cut and be workhorses. What there aren't a ton of are 225 pound backs who can run a 4.4. Speed is the difference and you really can't teach it.

I think Hill was a better pure RB prospect, but the upside Akers has is really special. His frame and speed mean that he can potentially be a Peterson, Elliot, etc... The technique can be taught, pad level and blocking can be taught, vision can be learned and acquired... but not always speed, at some point you just aren't going to get any faster.



Just for reference, here are the 40 times of some of the elite and potentially elite RB's of the last decade.

AP: 4.4
Zeke: 4.45
LT: 4.45
Bell: 4.45

Bell ran a 4.6. Arian Foster ran a 4.69 at his pro day. David Johnson ran a 4.5. Elliott ran a 4.47, which is good speed but not blazing.

I would argue that while you have to have a certain level of speed to be a difference-maker in the NFL, speed is not ultimately what separates the good from the great. I think that is primarily vision, and I don't think it can be learned and acquired, at least not to the level you need. You either have it or you don't. Trent Richardson doesn't have it and wasn't able to learn it, so he couldn't do a thing. Guys like Bell and Foster have fantastic vision.

[RougeDawg]

5* True Freshman RB from tOSU last night got his QB killed twice bc he didn't know what to do when a DE stunts. JT Barrett caught two different rib shots bc that kid didn't block. We cannot lose Fitz so Kylin can have 5 carries a game.

We have 3 capable backs. Kylin should only pay in garbage time, if that.

Meagan, is that you? We already know IYOK is Dan.

[Johnson85]

We don't seem to have a problem getting RB's.

??? We had Holloway and Ashton Shumpert as our primary backs for a full season. I get it's probably Mullen's fault for Aeres not being the primary back starting his RS Freshman year, but the reason we didn't have an upper classman that could play is that we went two straight years without signing a legitimate SEC running back.

[mstatefan91]

Kylin will play and he will get more and more carries as he proves himself. But for the love of God, please don't let him fumble tomorrow, or we won't see him again until UMASS.

Maybe I'm making that up, but Mullen does not seem to tolerate running backs fumbling the football.

[Turfdawg67]

Oh good lord...

https://s26.postimg.org/688ooytwp/IMG_0266.jpg

Hevesy thread next.

[Sacrifice]

How good is Nick Gibson? The answer is we dont know. So let's see what the other guys can do first.

This is what I'm talking about! Everybody keeps talking about Hill, I think when Nick Gibson gets his opportunity, he's gonna blow the F up. The few times I've seen him carry the ball he looks like an absolute beast.

[Homedawg]

Kylin will play and he will get more and more carries as he proves himself. But for the love of God, please don't let him fumble tomorrow, or we won't see him again until UMASS.

Maybe I'm making that up, but Mullen does not seem to tolerate running backs fumbling the football.

Um, yeah he shouldn't tolerate fumbling either. Treat the football like it's a child. Don't let go of it. Period!!!!

[Dawgcentral]

Can't recall which game it was last year, but Aeris went to take a hand off to the wrong side of Fitz and the play got blown up.
It was clear where the blocking was headed, so I can't place the blame on the QB.
So the point is, who the hell knows how many times this goes on in practices? I don't have that kind of access, but I know CDM will yank any RB immediately when these things happen in a game. Just like a fumble.
Maybe he has the best potential of anyone we have, but then again, maybe he has as much chance of causing a disaster each and every game.
I think JRob was too much of an improviser for Dan to stomach early on. I loved the way he ran,..but dude thought he was Barry Sanders at times.

[msbulldog]

Time to give D. Lee and Gibson and Murphey their chance, if they cannot perform okay they had their time on the big stage.